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Archive through November 28, 2008

Discussionboard of FIGU » The Creation-energy Teaching » The Application of Natural Logic (Living by the creational laws and recommendations) » Archive through November 28, 2008 « Previous Next »

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Adysor
Member

Post Number: 71
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Sunday, August 03, 2008 - 01:31 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

but just to put my opinion....

I think that because the spirit form back then was slightly less evolved than the present....it is not the same spirit form.... like the personality....you had another personality 10 years in the past but you travel back in time and meet yourself....do you still the same personality?
Adrian.
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J_rod7
Member

Post Number: 257
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Sunday, August 03, 2008 - 03:09 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello Lepuniv and Adrian, Greetings All in Peace,

Welcome to these Forums Lepuniv, glad to have on-board with us. You have questioned...:

> "how can the same spiritform be in 2 different bodies at the same time."

The key here, is they come from two DIFFERENT 'times'. Every Human SpiritForm, as you may be aware, experiences many incarnations in order to evolve. In the material Universe, we experience 'time' as a linear fashion of constant change. Therefore, our incarnations are not experienced simultaneously. Through the action of 'time-travel', however, we can have the experience of being 'in the same space-time' simultaneously with other embodiments of our own SpiritForm.

This is also an answer for you, Adrian. As we take upon ourselves new bodies in each new incarnation, we take upon ourselves new (different) personalities each lifetime. Yet still, the SAME SpiritForm. And true also which write = more evolved. You have applied good logical thinking to this point.

I hope this makes the answers more clear to your question.

Salome
Someone Shared Their LOVE Today. Was It YOU?
J_rod7
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Lepuniv
New member

Post Number: 3
Registered: 08-2008
Posted on Sunday, August 03, 2008 - 04:20 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Adrian

Well, I don't think the personality is part of the spiritform. The personality is part of the psyche which is mortel. Unlike the spiritform, which even while gaining more wisedom, remains immortal.
So the question would now be:

Doest a spiritform which gain some wisdom stay the same unity?
I'd be tempted to say yes.

What do you think?

But I still have the same problem... I'm trying find an answer somewhere on this site.

Salome

Lepuniv
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Scott
Moderator

Post Number: 1502
Registered: 12-1999
Posted on Sunday, August 03, 2008 - 10:41 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Please confine these posts to the topic of natural logic. Discussions concerning the human spirit form needs to be continued in the appropriate topic area.
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Adysor
Member

Post Number: 74
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Monday, August 04, 2008 - 06:22 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It is LOGIC that 2 things who are influenced by TIME are only the same at the same time...If the spirit is immortal, it doesn't mean that time is not influencing for it anymore...it is only that he does not grow old or sick...but grows in knowledge, wisdom and with that understanding.

The personality was just an example I used to show that due to time and change....it is not the same personality as in the past...so with the spirit it is LOGIC that further it advances in time...more wisdom it has...thus the present spirit form is different than the one in past lives. The present spirit knows much more than the spirit from the past...

So thats the APPLICATION of NATURAL LOGIC in this... Thank you Scott
Adrian.
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Scott
Moderator

Post Number: 1503
Registered: 12-1999
Posted on Monday, August 04, 2008 - 02:28 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Adrian,

There is a section specifically designated for this topic, do you disagree? The core of these posts is concerning the human spirit form.

Scott
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Adysor
Member

Post Number: 75
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Monday, August 04, 2008 - 04:00 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes....but this discussion ends here....no need to move just one post. I hope you agree, thanks.
Adrian.
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Lepuniv
New member

Post Number: 4
Registered: 08-2008
Posted on Monday, August 04, 2008 - 04:02 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

To you all!

I aggree, it's an application of natural logic!

ok, let's move there!


Scott, please could you transfer every remark from the begining of this conversation to the Spirit... section? Mind to carry out some items already achived.

Thanks

Salome

Lepuniv
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Scott
Moderator

Post Number: 1504
Registered: 12-1999
Posted on Monday, August 04, 2008 - 06:38 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lepuniv,

It is too time consuming to move posts. People have asked to have posts moved, but in most cases it will not happen, therefore people should think about what they write and if it pertains to the topic area etc..., please resume this conversation in the correct area if you like.

Scott
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Lepuniv
Member

Post Number: 5
Registered: 08-2008
Posted on Monday, August 04, 2008 - 09:23 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Scott,

Ok I'll certainly restart this conversation there.

I started the conversation here because it was a question of mere logic. I don't mind moving this topic to the section it's to be in.

But meanwhile, I need to persue the reading of the archives of the Spirit section. I stopped in 2003.

Salome

Lepuniv
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Metatronmatrix
New member

Post Number: 1
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Thursday, October 30, 2008 - 09:20 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

whats natural logic?
is that like gut instinct?
i had some ideas when i was younger and everyone looked at me funny.
my natural logic was that if i can create worlds in my mind (logical paths of thought)
then wouldent "GOD" for lack of a better word, just be one bige mind and our being is just a thought, like the electricity being our soul and the matter that makes our brain = the phisical universe of the creaters mind?

annyway i just had that thought when i was about 14, annyway i havent read about the creation part or anything mutch on this site yet but it shure looks darn interesting
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J_rod7
Member

Post Number: 352
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Friday, October 31, 2008 - 10:44 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

*
***
Hello Metatronmatrix,

Welcome to these Forums. You have actually found that 'what you may create' in Your Mind may even yet come into 'Reality.' (Even though those worlds have not taken 'material form.')

Natural Logic may be initiated by Intuition ( the Animal Kingdom is more reliant on Instinct ). However, Logic is a process of Thought, which Thought is wholly based on Truth - the Truth of that which is REAL. Logic leads us from that which is KNOWN to be TRUE into even Greater knowledge of Truth.

Here is a Quote which may 'shed a 'little' light.'...:

"OM, Canon 35, Verse 111
WALK IN THE LIGHT OF TRUTH LIKE CHILDREN OF THE LIGHT, FOR IT IS THE RADIATING LIGHT WHICH IS FULL OF LOVE, KINDNESS, JUSTICE AND TRUTH WITHIN KNOWLEDGE. UTILIZATION OF SPIRITUAL POWERS IN POSITIVE NEUTRALITY.

"FIGU's spiritual teachings instruct the student that the neutral-positive represents the positive value in every way and is the reason for its designation as "neutral-positive". Spiritual forces are absolutely neutral-positive and stored as such in the spiritual realm. They can be accessed and utilized via the material consciousness. The spirit's power is a pure energy force that can be employed through the study and implementation of the Spirit Lessons, meditation, along with other methods. A person's spiritual and conscious power grows slowly but steadily. Through understanding and practice, man will have some day the capability to consciously apply his spiritual powers. It is through the conscious application of this purely energy-Creation force that human beings are granted the opportunity to consciously evolve, that is, consciously develop."

From...:
http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/FIGU#THE_CRAVING_AND_LOVE_FOR_TRUTH.2C_LOGIC_AND_LOVE

And this is found at the website at...:
http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/

Happy Studies, and again, Welcome Aboard.

In Peace
***
*
From One Eternal Spiritual Being to All Others,
Awaken to Your true Essential Being
J_rod7
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Kaare
Member

Post Number: 77
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Friday, October 31, 2008 - 01:05 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi J-rod,

Your post today, which also includes an OM translation, shows it’s perfectly possible to translate Billy’s spiritual teaching into modern day English without using Gothic slang.
And guess what : You can actually understand it.

Regards
Kaare
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Matthew_deagle
Member

Post Number: 210
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Friday, October 31, 2008 - 05:35 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Natural Logic is simply Logos, the Craft/Force of the Creation. It is the purest Form of Language, the perfect, self-referential Logic of the Spirit.

Human logic is just Thinking and Acting in Agreement with this immutable Truth. This requires that a Man or Woman alearn through his or her Understanding certain Witness, whence he or she build Wisdom through Experience and Self-Management.

Salome,

- Matthew
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Phenix
Member

Post Number: 121
Registered: 07-2008
Posted on Friday, October 31, 2008 - 11:38 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Beste Empfehlung on this great Day, Kameraden!

Herr J_rod7, Bruder im Geist,
The Answer you gave to Member Metatronmatrix is full of Understanding, Wisdom, Guidance and Care - i could hardly think of a better Definition of the Concept 'Natural Logic' and of a more exhaustive Introduction to 'Neutral-Positivity', as well as of a more tempting Invitation to deepen oneself in the Wealth of the Spiritual Teachings des Herrn Meier.

I would only add, to our new Kamerad Metratronmatrix, the following - a slightly modified and updated Part of my Post 107(October 24; Section 'Current Earth Events'):
I don't know how far you are in the Study of The Mission, Member Metatronmatrix, but as a Beginner to a Fellow Beginner, i would suggest you - if you are not yet doing so - to go through the Archives of the Forum; you could find there some Answers to the Questions you might have.
Are also of the utmost Importance, among other Places, the Sites:
- 'Figu-English' (http://us.figu.org/portal/Default.aspx);
- 'They Fly' (www.theyfly.com);
- 'The Essence of The Notes' (http://www.geocities.com/maurice_osborn/Reports.htm);
- A site of Mr Wendelle C. Stevens (http://www.alternativkanalen.com/rune/stewens.html) and, as already mentioned by Member J_rod7,
- 'Future of Mankind' (www.futureofmankind.co.uk ).

These Sites provided me, personally, with some Orientation, helped me to quickly be fairly updated and to acquire a General Knowledge/View of The Works of Herr Meier(extremely extensive!), for they are built as a Presentation of the Whole Material - a Sort of Introduction Lecture, if you wish.

Welcome on Board and see you at the Peace Meditation(http://www.theyfly.com/spiritual/peacemeditation.htm) of the First Saturday of the Month, that is:

Today, Saturday, 1st November:
Zurich 6:30pm
Los Angeles 10:30 am
Zurich 8:00pm
Los Angeles 12:00 noon.

Sunday, 2nd November:
Zurich 8:00pm
Los Angeles 11:00 am.

(Source: Post 245 of Kamerad Indi-Robjna, 04 Oktober 2008; Section 'Meditation';More Information here: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meeting.html)


Salome.
Adam.
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Pathfinder
Member

Post Number: 16
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Saturday, November 01, 2008 - 02:18 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I understand this matthew,

There is an immovable, unavoidable truth to those things of creation that simply 'ARE', and the thinking of man cannot alter them.

However, should we not take care in attempting to personalize them as in the example of LOGOS, which is what the Christian religion refers to Jesus Christ as?

When we try to identify these aspects of creation, we sort of inadvertently individualize them at the same time and as we know creation is not a sum of its parts so to speak but is instead a result of its evolved wholeness.

I know this was not your intent here, and that is not what I am suggesting at all, I just want to point out that care needs to be taken when identifying the components of creation as a whole. Creation is a very diffcult thing to describe.
Don't just follow the laws of creation, feel them!
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Brenda
New member

Post Number: 1
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Monday, November 03, 2008 - 06:54 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have been trying to use logic for a long time, to try to figure this out.
pardon my small thoughts.
Please could you ask Billy for me;

Billy, my dear, if one has the power to heal, does one just heal, and give thier "light" to others when they need more illumination?

What about to all one sees and looks at?

Do others resent it, on other levels, when a true healer does not freely heal, when they can?

What is the best way to use that power if one could? Should it be freely given to all?

Is it right to heal others, with thier permission, asking for nothing in return?

Hypothetical questions, to be sure.

I appreciate you, for coming here, for giving the teachings to us again.
I honor you.
Love Brenda
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Adysor
Member

Post Number: 112
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, November 05, 2008 - 03:54 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Brenda you have to wait about 30 days to ask that question to Billy. Although my opinion is that he won't be giving a detailed answer because I think people did ask him about health and healing and didn't get much out of him...

"What is the best way to use that power if one could? Should it be freely given to all?"

His answer to this would be something like....When you have this ability you will know.

:D
Adrian.
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Gaiawingz
Member

Post Number: 12
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Wednesday, November 05, 2008 - 11:01 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Brenda;

To quote from the Talmud Jmmanuel:

Page 34:

'25. But when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face, so that you do not shine before the people with your fasting but before your own consciousness, which is hidden.
26. You fast for the sake of your health and for the expansion of your consciousness, spirit and your knowledge.
27. Neither should you amass great treasures on Earth, where moths and rust consume them and thieves break in and steal them.
28. But collect treasures in the spirit and in consciousness, where neither moths nor rust consumes them and where thieves neither break in nor steal.
29. For where your treasure is, there your heart is also; and the true treasure is wisdom and knowledge.
30. The eye is the light of your body.
31. When your eye is clear, your entire body will be a light.
32. But if your eye is evil, your whole body will be dark.
33. If now the light within you is dim, how great then will be the darkness!
34. No one can serve two masters; either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will adhere to the one and despise the other.
35. You cannot serve your consciousness and mammon.
36. Therefore, I say to you, concern yourself about the knowledge of your consciousness, and besides that with what you will eat and drink, and be concerned about your body and how you will clothe it.
37. For are not the spirit, life and body more important than all the treasures of the world?
38. The human consciousness, which is thirsting for truth and knowledge, is incapable of preserving its earthly life without the body, because both body and consciousness together are one.
39. Thus you should be concerned about increasing your knowledge for your consciousness' sake, about the laws of life and about food, drink and clothing for your body.
40. Look at the birds in the sky: they do not sow, they do not reap, they do not store their food in barns, and yet Creation feeds them.
41. Are you not much more than they?
42. Look at the birds in the sky: they devour the harmful insects, and they have plumage for clothing, yet they have no spirit capable of ongoing evolution.
43. They work to fulfil their duty, and they are fed and clothed by Creation.
44. Are you not much more than they?
45. You can think independently through your free consciousness; you can work independently and you can prepare food and drink and clothe your bodies independently.
46. Behold the lilies in the marsh as they grow: they neither toil nor spin, yet truly, I say to you, the lilies also fulfil their mission, when they give pleasure to the eye with their beauty.
47. I tell you, even Solomon in all his splendour was not arrayed as one of these.
48. Creation nourishes and clothes the grass in the field, which today is standing and tomorrow is thrown into the stove. Should not you then do much more for yourselves?
49. The grass fulfils its mission by serving as fodder and fuel; but are you not of much greater value than grass, o you of little knowledge?
50. Therefore, you shall care for the wisdom and knowledge of your consciousness, and take care that you do not suffer from lack of food, drink and clothing.
51. Truly, I say to you, if you suffer from hunger, thirst and nakedness, then wisdom and knowledge will be crowded out by worry.
52. First seek the world of your spirit and its knowledge, and seek to comfort your body with food, drink and clothing.
53. Therefore, take care for the next day, for tomorrow will not take care of you by itself.
54. It is enough that each day has its own misery, therefore you must not also be at the mercy of the need for your physical welfare.'


Although not explicitely stated, from this one can extrapolate that in the case of a healer -- one cannot give the entirety of one's energies and self over to the benefit of others. Simply because one has the ability to heal others does not mean that they are bound to devote the whole of their energies to others and keep nothing back for themselves. If one keeps nothing back for themselves, then they suffer the consequences, which limit their ability to care for anyone.

Before we take care of others, we must have our needs taken care of. Who can help anyone if they have given the shirt from their back, the food from their table, and the roof from their head? -- such a person will only be constantly engaged in struggle, anxiety, and the pursuit of fulfilling their own needs. Simply put, one can help far more people in the long-run if they take care of their own needs before attempting to fulfill the needs of others.

It is similar to the fact that one cannot establish harmony from the outside-in. One must be in peace and at harmony within themselves first before they can harmonise their family and so forth.

Peace,

- Gaia
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Kingman
Member

Post Number: 452
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Thursday, November 06, 2008 - 12:27 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Brenda,

A very enlightening experience in discovering many of the initial thoughts that scroll through our wonderment of grappling with Billy's materials, can be found by starting here,

http://www25.brinkster.com/chancede/Answers.html

Here you can read both the questions and answers Billy has given from members of this forum since its inception. It's possible then to begin formulating an effectively designed series of questions that Billy will better understand and respond without Christian needing to offer additional perceptions to what the questioner was inferring.

Christian is the person who reads the, "Questions to Billy", to Billy in a loosely arranged monthly setting at the SSSC.

The many Q & A's from earlier, help one comprehend an approach that will better serve both sides in this exchange.

As I understand it, what we ask about, is just as important as how we ask it. When beginning a dialog of asking Billy a question, understand that this opportunity is designed for what hasn't been available already. A well thought out series of questions, or potential questions, when asking Billy to clarify something, allows Billy, with Christian's invaluable assistance, to answer from a point of reference. Many people fail to insert the basis of their question. What it is based on allows Billy to use every moment of his time as efficiently as possible. Its also understood that his time here on Earth is limited, and we honor this, and his commitment to humanity, with our consciously prepared questions.

It's an important learned skill I am still figuring out as I proceed.
a friend in america
Shawn
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Phi_spiral
Member

Post Number: 356
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2008 - 09:30 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thomas: “All I wanted was the DEFINITIONS AND DIFFERENCES beween "idea" and "thought" as used in FIGU materials specifically because they are not identical in the FIGU materials. Where did that question get lost?!?"


My understanding of an “idea” is that it is a form of thought. And there are various forms of thought. For example, a thought can be re-actionary in nature. You touch something hot and the thought occurs, "That is hot". Whereas, an idea is pre-actionary in nature. Something has not occurred or existed yet. But a new form of conceptual thought has provided a blueprint for something to occur. A thought that focuses on a way that something could be and not already is. And thoughts had to evolve from their early beginning forms in sophistication from self-awareness and simple consciousness before ideas could begin to take form.

A simple form of memory had to develop by which the observance of cause-and-effect could have meaning by comparison and thoughts could evolve even further. As well as an awareness of duality to distinguish between is and is not. And finally, an application of logic into the thought process must have occurred and immediately preceded the birth of an idea.

I know I have not properly addressed your original question in its’ entirety, Thomas, because I am not referencing FIGU material as my source for validation. But perhaps aspects of your question could be broken down into components and analyzed separately, without doing so.

Regards
Bob
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Thomas
Member

Post Number: 533
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2008 - 01:30 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the thoughts Bob. I was thinking that an idea is more like a pattern which may or may not become more, while a thought, in my opinion, is anything formulated by a consciousness form in an active sense. If that were the case, thoughts could generate ideas but not vice versa. An idea could indirectly lead to thoughts, but a consciousness form would be needed for the transformation. These are just possibilities though and I am still quite uncertain how to accurately define those two terms.

Thomas
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Pathfinder
Member

Post Number: 145
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Friday, November 28, 2008 - 12:42 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am thinking of it more as a noun/verb perspective Thomas.

the thought being an action, verb, and an idea being the result of an action, thought.

Again there's the chicken before the egg dilemma. Do we need a thought first to form an idea or do we have to have an idea to think about?

With regard to how this pertains to the first cause and Absolute absolutuum, and how creation produced the first idea/thought before actually creating, I would say that BEAM teaches that thought is a vibrational fluidal energy that is transmitted from the brain. These vibrations and energies surround us like an aura and can be mentally projected and used.

Though the Ur Creation may not have a material brain matter, it obviously existed from the beginning as some form of this energy which was able to transmit the force and employ it also.

the actual thought transmission of fluidal energy may have been the first action ever made in existence. hense the thought process of Ur Creation which led to further ideas of basically what to do next. The resulting continuing creation becomes a construction of bringing ideas to reality, with forethought as the energizing force behind the construction/creating.

IMO the thought came first, as a transmission of fluidal fine matter energy in the same way that it transmits from the brain. After this release of energy into the void, all further consequential action would have been creative ideas, with further thought processes fulfilling each idea.

This would be in line with our being similar to creation in that just as creation projects its thoughts and can cause actions to result from the thought process, so can humans project their fluidal energies to cause actions to take place. So again, we are copies of creation evolving creatively.

Does this contradict any of BEAMS teachings at all?
"Therefore nothing may mislead him to un-truth and falseness, because his entire BEING is in the creational cognition of infinite truth."
Contact 18:62

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