| Author | Message | ||
    Pathfinder Member Post Number: 284 Registered: 10-2008 |
To All, As amazing as creation may be, I would have to say that it is not wonderful, or something to be praised. Survival is key and is affected at any time by any number of fortunate and unfortunate events. Our small pinpoint on the map of the galaxy is afflicted with an utter disregard for our planet and our brethren. All that we know could all be violently eliminated in seconds by a catastrophic planetary disaster, or slowly by a cancerous rotting away due to the ignorance of its inhabitants. There may be other worlds out there where existence is much more brotherly and ecological, but even there, the dangers that nature imposes is always a threat to any serenity. Whatever is responsible for the creation of existence is not known to our world. Whether there is any life out there in the universe that does know the truth to existence, I can only hope that it also knows why the Creator seems to be so insensitive toward the welfare of it's creations. Some declare that the Creator is good and provides us with all that is required to survive, and yet, the meteor that reduces everything to dust in seconds they simply attribute to natural chaos. It is an option for some of us to, in times when our world is treating us kindly, see some splendor and glory within it. And that is surely better than the misery of despair. But, in our world, these windows of serenity are few and short lived, and even in the midst of good periods, one does not have to look far to see his brethren suffering around him. There may be places out there in the universe where the Creator nurtures it's creations and protects them from harm. But it is not here! Some believe that creation evolves and progresses into advanced states of attributes and well being. But the highest of evolved life is still subject to the destructive capabilities of the cosmos. Life, no matter how evolved, is vulnerable to its environment. And the Creator is obviously, either distracted somewhere else, or simply unconcerned with the state of things here. Our environment is constantly at the risk of pure circumstance. Circumstances which we cannot control, and which dictate complete control over whether or not we survive. There is no fair and unfair, or good and bad luck. There is only circumstance. And this seems to be what life is all about. Life is defined in how we react to the circumstances that confront us. There is no right and wrong, truth or deceit, bad or good with regard to the course of natural event and circumstance. There is simply reaction and result, cause and effect. Others say that only the strong survive. They claim it is all a matter of the survival of the fittest, and that we must first take care of 'numero uno'. Others say that we all have a choice to become what we allow ourselves to become, by the ways that we choose to deal with our circumstances. I am one of those others. In an existence where the Creator is not compassionate or attainable, all one really has is what he becomes by his experiences. His learning grounds are vast, but regardless of where he resides at any given time, the only factor he ultimately controls is his own choice to react one way or another. Life becomes a matter of options, which result in what a man becomes, after he has applied his choice from among those options. The options may not always be fortunate ones, and often times they seem to be very limited. But when faced with overwhelming odds a man should always choose the option which will allow him to be able to claim that he did what he thought was the right thing to do, so his conscience remains clear. And here we have what I believe to be the crux of life.How does a man know what is the right thing to do? Religion is built upon this factor, and attempts to guide man to righteousness. But it is not the laws of religion that really direct a man's true inner self, because there is always that inner conscience that plagues and doubts. This is where we find the spirit of man revealed. It is here where love and hate, wisdom and ignorance, and intelligence or stupidity exposes itself. Man is not an unconscious life force acting inconsequentially with the world around him. Man acts with absolute awareness of the choices and decisions he makes, and what degree of intelligence, love and wisdom he applies in these decisions is based upon the degree of knowledge, character and experience he has attained. And his moral character, or lack thereof, will result in the application of love instead of hate, or vica versa. Which applications are best for the survival of a man will vary according to the situational circumstances of any particular event. But the moral character of a man never varies according to external circumstances. The moral character of a man is always based immediately and completely on his decisions to act out of love or hate,compassion or indifference, and concern or uncaring. None of these are changed by environment or situational circumstances. This truth is the only constant in the universe. Love is what it is regardless of nature, environment or necessity. Of all life on earth, it is the ability to understand love that makes man unique. Whether this is common throughout the universe or not is unknown. But this is what separates us from the animals in our world, as well as the barbarians. These virtues mean nothing if all we have them for is simple survival. Because the highest love that can a man can give is in the form of sacrificing his own survival for those he loves. These virtuous characteristics are evidence of a part of man that is not bound to the material aspects of his existence. Bodily functions and material needs that we require to be healthy, productive and comfortable are all physical. But virtue and character are a part of a mystery that man cannot explain. The mystery of the spirit! That which makes a man who he is, despite what he may be physically. The spiritual aspect of man is unique from every other life form that we know of, and it is the obvious critical juncture between what we know as life and death. Our spirit is what grows as we learn from our experiences. And it is how we know that we exist. It is also the missing component of a corpse that leaves it lifeless. What happens to this mysterious inner spirit upon death? What is this life force that makes us more than physical material? And what is this Creator that makes it all possible? It is in the quest to solve these mysteries that one is lead to knowledge and truth. It is by the seeking to solve these mysteries of life that man gathers the most crucial truths, and gains wisdom through them. Spirit, life, and creation. They are all bound together in a circle of truth that cannot be altered. The truth of a Creator may forsake us, and we may be responsible for our own character, but there are clues to be found in this creation of what is beneficial and what is destructive. And with regard to the spirit of man, there is no doubt that love is beneficial, and that the aquiring of knowledge is productive. In a creation where we are left to fend for ourselves, the comfort of loved ones, and the community of like-minded goals, is certainly a benefit to everyone concerned. Individual responsibility should mean doing what is right out of love for mankind, not love for yourself. Growing and evolving as an individual, regardless of personal beliefs, should always be through an effort of gathering knowledge, seeking truth, and applying wisdom with love. And applying it to mankind as a whole, with the understanding that you would only want the same offered to you in return. What we may find out there in the great beyond will certainly be shocking to accept. But if we are always of an open mind, that in a universe of so many mysteries, that anything could be possible, than the shock of future revelations will not be such a burden. Living in an environment where life is so fragile, all we have to hang on to, in times when the storms blow, is what we have become ourselves as our own little part of this larger creation. And what we become is fully within our power. Every man should be always striving to improve his spiritual awareness, and in so doing, learning what abilities and options become open to him through his spiritual growth. It is clear to those of us who are enlightened, that it is our spirits that must take priority over the physical concerns, because it is the spirit that connects us to those mysteries that we quest after. By the spirit a man shall become more than what he is presently. There is no amount of wealth or health that can attain what the spirit can attain. Every man should strive to learn what abilities could become possible to him by the perfecting of his spirit. The true treasure of creation is truth, which brings knowledge, which brings wisdom, which brings love. Love and wisdom perfect the spirit. Sincerely, Hunter "Therefore nothing may mislead him to un-truth and falseness, because his entire BEING is in the creational cognition of infinite truth." Contact 18:62 | ||
Cpl Member Post Number: 406 Registered: 08-2004 |
Dear Hunter, Thank you for sharing your thoughts. "Whether there is any life out there in the universe that does know the truth to existence, I can only hope that it also knows why the Creator seems to be so insensitive toward the welfare of it's creations." It is not that Creation is insensitive to its creations, rather it will generally do nothing to violate its creations' sovereignty in creating their own reality. It allows complete free will. This means some can do harm to others and self, knowingly or unknowingly. We will experience what we individually or collectively bring upon ourselves. We will experience the end of our sufferings when we individually and collectively end such sufferings. That's basically all there is to it. Creation is not a person doling out sympathies. It clearly needs to progress and we are instruments of its progression. The only path for these instruments is, however, a hard one, and in it all will suffer. This is a part of the progress that is so difficult to see and appreciate when in the midst of the suffering; and indeed for the sufferer it loses importance. But life is just about progress -- in all areas. Unless we suffer diseases and deprivations we will not find the cause and cures for them. Every suffering is a challenge for us to meet and overcome; and overcome them we eventually will -- though there will always be other challenges and difficulties of some kind until we evolve beyond them. While life is hard it is man himself that makes life so hard here. We suffer mostly because of human error, past and present; and there has been error because we have lacked wisdom, intelligence, knowledge, abilities, love for all, and all other good qualities and because we are human and will therefore always err to some degree. When we learn and live these good qualities we will overcome our suffering. This is our challenge. It is hard -- very hard. But it is going to be worth it to overcome and progress, and, by our own efforts. Not even a Creator or Creation does this for us. Creation created our spirits in relative perfection. That is, they never suffer, but they do need to progress and these spirits need us for that process of progression. We, as humans are different from the spirit, and to the degree we are a suffering species or individuals we are a creation of man, and I use that term very broadly with its most modern and most ancient connotations, rather than Creation. Creation and spirit are always there to help, but we have banished them for so long so collectively that it has become so difficult for most to bring them into their lives to ease the pain and suffering. It is on us, as both individuals and a collective species, to bring Creation and spirit into our life and world, rather than the other way around, although I personally think Creation is moving closer to us all. The onus, however, is on us bringing Creation and spirit qualities into our lives and the world. This is how we can and will heal it of its ills and woes. So we are indeed in this respect on our own, as are all human beings throughout the cosmos, because we are indeed sovereign beings creating our own reality. This is just the reality of the human situation. There is no one individually and/or collectively controlling our lives or us, other than ourselves (and nature). Sincerely, Chris | ||
Pathfinder Member Post Number: 286 Registered: 10-2008 |
Dear Chris, Some of the most profound words I have read here yet. Thank you. Your words strike powerfully and I will need to think deeply on them before I respond. As you may have gathered by my post I still think that Creation is more of an identity/entity than simply universal consciuosness. However something you said about mankind banishing this Creator/Creation awakens something in me. We seem to be in agreement with regard to man's responsibility in this existence, with the exception that I think,IMO, that there must be more to the relation between free will and the interaction of a Creator than mere benevolence. Maybe insensitive is not the right word to describe that Chris, but the suffering of the innocent and the utter extermination of created life to appease the further evolution of other life seems to be a lack of interest. For instance, what good has been accomplished in creation when a world of people has managed to rise above barbarism and evolved into a peaceful state of spirituality, only to be completely annihilated by some lesser race of barbarians with more advanced warlike abilities? How is whatever the barbarians might learn from this an advancement in the evolution of creation as whole? Something is missing in our thinking on this matter. Logic would advise that those who manage to evolve to higher spiritual states would be protected from extermination. After all, the goal of creation is to reach higher levels of spiritual evolution, ultimately pure spirit, but what is gained by striving to reach that goal if it can be totally eliminated by lesser evolved beings. There is a balance issue here that is not being understood, and maybe there is more to this story than we are seeing. Sincerely, Hunter "Therefore nothing may mislead him to un-truth and falseness, because his entire BEING is in the creational cognition of infinite truth." Contact 18:62 | ||
Scott Moderator Post Number: 1659 Registered: 12-1999 |
Why are we alive? There is only one reason, to develop the spirit so it can rejoin Creation. This thought hit me today. That is the reason and the only reason why we are alive. Not to build empires, not to destroy and control each other in ignorance, not too believe in false ideas and teachings. The sole purpose and the real reason for our existence is to discover the essence of the spirit within each one of us, and then to develop that essence to the highest degree possible. Nothing else compares to the importance of this concept. This is why we were created by Creation. Nothing else matters once this idea is accepted and acknowledged. The acknowledgment of this releases us from the shackles of limiting beliefs and concepts which restrict the freedom of the spirit in blindness and illogic. How can it be any other way? What other possible alternative is there?-Thinking out loud  Scott | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 577 Registered: 10-2007 |
.... Hello Hunter, Semjase said this better then I ever could. This comes from Contact #10...: 41.Wisdom is using the spirit force. 42. Wisdom and spirit are two things that amount to one, in the same way as sunlight and the sun are two things. 43. The sunlight results from the heat of the sun, which she herself first has to generate through her processes. 44. Thus, there is also an all-creating existence in the universe that, on the strength of its force, creates forces that constantly and imperturbably follow and enliven the endless eons--as truth, knowledge and wisdom, (and) according to a given uniform guideline--along certain Creative laws. 45. This forceful existence, however, is Creation. 46. And therefore, there is only one existence that rules throughout the universe--only one Creation, only one truth, one knowledge and one wisdom--and that is synchronous and unchanging for all times. 47. The eternal truth is not subject to any variations and changes, and its laws must never be revised and adjusted to new times. 48. The spirit force is vital and dynamic, namely in such an amount as it embodies the wisdom within itself. 49. It is a sign of human weakness when religions and their false teachings are presented as instruments of what is creative, and when wisdom becomes unreal through this. 50. The human searches elsewhere for strength, freedom, joy and light, but not where they really may be found. ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Contact_Report_010 ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ These are my words for you...: Creation IS endless in Love, Logic, Intelligence, Wisdom, Truth, endless in it's Joy in all it's Creations. Creation is Embodied within the Totality of all the Material Universes. Creation Spirit Energy IS All 'things' - Stars, Galaxies, within and without. There is no 'place' outside of Creation. Creation IS Every manifestation of Energy, every Atom and Molecule. Creation Spirit IS it's Intelligence within ALL 'things.' Creation needs no name to personify Creation. This is to place Limits on what Creation is. Creation is the Blue of the Sky, the Bird on the Wing, the Cool of the Water, the Laughter of a Child, the Gold in the Sun, the Green in the Forest. Creation is your very next breath, and all which follow. Salome .... You say you want an Evolution, well you know, we're all doing what we can. -(Beatles revamped) Rod | ||
Cpl Member Post Number: 407 Registered: 08-2004 |
Dear Hunter, "We seem to be in agreement with regard to man's responsibility in this existence, with the exception that I think,IMO, that there must be more to the relation between free will and the interaction of a Creator than mere benevolence." There is more than mere benevolence. The "more", however, can only be triggered by the individual and his/her connection and active working with Creator/Creation and its qualities. We are Source's/Creation's active element within the third dimension. Your question in this respect may exist partly due to there being little knowledge on how Creation/Creator created or creates the individual, perhaps from the viewpoints of both ancient antiquity and also moment to moment. I am not aware of information from Billy or the Plejaren regarding how the very first human beings came into existence within the time/space universe. We do have information, however, on how we resident on this planet earth were created by overlords and not by Creator/Creation directly -- at least in the compromised genetic form we currently find ourselves. If there is no information on this front coming from Billy we can look at this in two ways: 1. There was some other high being/s intermediate between Creation and mankind that initially created the templates for all of humanity's diverse forms and these were exported out into the universe (you will probably recognize this as an explanation given in the Wingmakers information) and/or: 2. Mankind just evolved over many millenniums from basic organisms. The moment to moment creation is if we are indeed coming into existence and out of existence in a frequency format as Russell wrote of. This is the theory you might be aware of that 3D reality is a series of still holograms each one created at around 4 quadrillionths of a second (if I remember correctly) then moving into anti-matter where the next still reality is created 4 quadrillionths of a second later and so on ad infinitum. The movement within our 3D reality being just perception while each is actually quite static, according to him. I am not aware of Billy commenting on this possibility of Creation creating reality quadrillions of times every second. The theory allows for mankind to enter into the spaces between and co-create incredible change within the anti-matter phase since all is just created in the next instant that we all could in theory effect, dependent basically upon the energies in motion during the last phase. Creation (or Russel's God) just keeps the process going according to universal law. In both systemic processes 1 and 2 above Creation/Creator allows all to proceed according to the rules of three dimensional matter, energy, space, and time. The rules are what make the reality and so the rules cannot just be changed or adjusted without disrupting the whole reality complex. If we liken this to a game of soccer. The creators of the game never said bones must be broken causing pain. That is not intended at all. During the process of the game, however, a bone may well get broken and the player may well feel it "unfair" but it is just the way the game resulted based on how the players actually played out the game. A rule, or creator intervention such as "There shall be no broken bones or unnecessary hurt" cannot be implemented. If it were, the game would have to cease to exist because there can be no guarantee. The possibility, and so actuality, of broken bones just comes with the turf. The creator of the game is not insensitive to the pains of the players, but what can he do other than comment on the fact that the players are not playing according to the rules and give advice on how to play a better game and so prevent such injuries? Creation too is bound by its own laws of Creation or all would cease to exist. "Maybe insensitive is not the right word to describe that Chris, but the suffering of the innocent and the utter extermination of created life to appease the further evolution of other life seems to be a lack of interest. For instance, what good has been accomplished in creation when a world of people has managed to rise above barbarism and evolved into a peaceful state of spirituality, only to be completely annihilated by some lesser race of barbarians with more advanced warlike abilities? How is whatever the barbarians might learn from this an advancement in the evolution of creation as whole? Something is missing in our thinking on this matter. Logic would advise that those who manage to evolve to higher spiritual states would be protected from extermination. After all, the goal of creation is to reach higher levels of spiritual evolution, ultimately pure spirit, but what is gained by striving to reach that goal if it can be totally eliminated by lesser evolved beings. There is a balance issue here that is not being understood, and maybe there is more to this story than we are seeing." It is not just the barbarians who might learn: the annihilated too will learn, and through their future selves after learning their lessons the barbarians eventually learn anew, and all including Creation will eventually grow wiser and further evolve in understanding and wisdom of how the physical and spiritual interact and evolve together. This is exactly our situation is it not? The ancient Lyran overlords who had developed spiritually to a high degree had not sufficiently developed the physical abilities (or genetically erased them) to protect themselves and were being overrun. As you know from Billy's work that is how we came into being initially as a warrior race, if you like. So we are still in the process of answering your question there. Hopefully all learn; and we are learning, that the physical is ignored at our peril in the physical plane no matter that the eventual goal is spiritual. And so now we realize we must master both the physical and the spiritual in the physical plane, and when we have done this the barbarians and Creation will be all the wiser; and we too, of course. The higher level of spirituality is not annihilated it is, in time, enhanced with an understanding of the physical. In a physical realm the physical lessons have to be learned along with the spiritual ones. This is obviously a very important part of our and Creation's evolution in this cycle. Once we have learned what we need to learn from this physical reality, in the next cycle of Creation it would seem logical that a higher level and cycle of reality will be worked with. Sincerely, Chris | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 582 Registered: 10-2007 |
=== Thank You Scott... ---- You say you want an Evolution, well you know, we're all doing what we can. -(Beatles revamped) Rod | ||
Scott Moderator Post Number: 1660 Registered: 12-1999 |
Rod, What is interesting is the very quotations you posted were ones that I was reading today! Regards Scott | ||
Pathfinder Member Post Number: 287 Registered: 10-2008 |
Scott, What else matters is that there is also justice, righteousness and morality in this existence that requires balancing, just as much as mere survival of the fittest. Your effort to evolve yourself is valiant, but only to you alone, as by your thinking you are the only one that matters. What about the love of self-sacrifice? And besides the 'love for others' aspect , are you saying that, should we manage to evolve to a higher spiritual level over the next thousand years, and then some barbarian with advanced warring skills comes along and kidnaps the entire population of this planet, and takes us to a much lesser evolved planet where we are all killed, and where we will then have to begin their evolution all over again until we catch up with ourselves; that this to you is a balanced creation at work? As I said, something is not right with this scenario. There is a matter of love being left out of the picture when speaking about evolving oneself without consideration of anyone else, and just expecting them to do the same to solve the problem of mankind as a whole. Mankind is not a whole unless you count the individuals of it. And it is the interaction of those individuals that make us whole, not their isolation. Mankind is not 5 billion single people all going their own way. Mankind is a concerted effort of those 5 billion people, although it is a very unconcerted dance right now. No Scott, in order for love to reveal itself, it will require more than one person. Love is meant to be shared, not wasted on oneself. It is this selfless love, this self sacrificing love and concern, that will reveal the true character of creation and evolve it. Without the willingness to sacrifice ones own self evolution for the good of those they love, than evolution is unattainable. Without love,there is no wisdom, and where there is no wisdom there is no evolution, and no creational truth to be gained. Sincerely, Hunter "Therefore nothing may mislead him to un-truth and falseness, because his entire BEING is in the creational cognition of infinite truth." Contact 18:62 | ||
Scott Moderator Post Number: 1661 Registered: 12-1999 |
Hunter, I am not speaking blindly, I am saying reverence for Creation must be part of ones life. It is the reason we are alive. The bond with Creation must be taken into account, because all of our thoughts, feelings ideas, combined with our ability to think and reason allows us to evolve, which in turn allows us to develop this connection with Creation. You are missing what I am saying. You don't seem to understand I am talking about the development of your own spirit as well. I don't find this self serving, because with this internal development, will come love, wisdom, justice etc... which will be radiated to others. Everything in the universe is connected through vibrations. When you live with this knowledge, your life will be transformed, which in turn uplifts others. Happiness, love etc, is a self generated state, which comes from within each person. I don't understand your ideas about the "love of self sacrifice". What do you mean? Regards Scott | ||
Pathfinder Member Post Number: 288 Registered: 10-2008 |
Chris, If one tries to apply your logic, would it not suggest that given the length of time which it would take for races to evolve,and that we are all learning from these experiences as you point out, that at some point we should have already reached a point where there is no further barbarism? This is the same dilemma that some scientists face when talking about the age of the universe and the fact that if everything is gradually disintegrating, that the universe should have already wasted away to nothing. I cannot recall the exact terminology of that dilemma, but it sounds very similar to me. I am still not convinced that something in this line of thinking is not quite in synch with what we are claiming to be a balanced creation. Where is selfless love for each other in this thinking? Rod showed lots of quotes from the BEAM teaching referring to wisdom which were well spoken, but did not address this issue directly as I could also show some BEAM posts that state unequivocally that without love there is no wisdom and vica versa. I am afraid that we simply cannot scratch love out of the painting without destroying the canvas. And the self-evolution that you folks are professing just seems to me to be void of the love that I would suggest is necessary to evolve with wisdom. IMO, no personal offense intended. Sincerely, Hunter Hunter http://www.blueskinsearcher.blogspot.com/ "Therefore nothing may mislead him to un-truth and falseness, because his entire BEING is in the creational cognition of infinite truth." Contact 18:62 | ||
Pathfinder Member Post Number: 289 Registered: 10-2008 |
Hi Rod, I have been going over your quotes and I can't see how they are being used to argue anything that I have said. Is it possible to add a little clarification in between the quotes to show how you are using them to argue my points? I want to acknowledge your effort, but I am sorry to say that I just don't disagree with any of those quotes, they are all meaningful, but they do not suggest that we can leave love out of the process of evolving as I am intimating that some of this teaching seems to be implying to me. Hunter http://www.blueskinsearcher.blogspot.com/ "Therefore nothing may mislead him to un-truth and falseness, because his entire BEING is in the creational cognition of infinite truth." Contact 18:62 | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 584 Registered: 10-2007 |
.. Scott, There is no doubt, There is Synchronicity of the Psyche. For all who are interested, the answers are here...: http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/FIGU_Special_Bulletin_038 Salome .. You say you want an Evolution, well you know, we're all doing what we can. -(Beatles revamped) Rod | ||
Creational Member Post Number: 117 Registered: 09-2008 |
Dear Scott, You wrote; “Why are we alive? There is only one reason … This thought hit me today… What other possible alternative is there?” Your shared your high frequency vibrations/thoughts openly with your peer of seemingly same/similar frequencies; which BTW, and IMO was also felt unspoken by many of us in this forum. It is remarkable how you used your words to share this. You said the thought hit you. You were truly hit by these thought vibrations and picked them because you were in tune with them. Creation works wondrously, indeed. In verification of what you and my other dear friends such as Rod and Chris have been sharing with us, I thought; Love is the fiber, the thread gluing/sewing the opposites, unifying them. In order to first create and then evolve through it, just like electricity, there need to be both, negative and positive for that spark. As a mater of fact, IMO, In the beginning, Creation thought that it had to divide to be able to expand thus the need for duality. Think about it guys, this is truly profound. The opposite sides of the coin or any entity are attached to one another by the thread of love. Love is the host; it had to be there before. Yin and yang confirms this necessary evolutional law of duality. But the original law of Love had to have been there to make them whole. It is the basic ingredient, the broth of this soup called physical world. Love is timeless, directionless, therefore from the core itself. Yin is half of creation, yang is the other needed opposite half. Neither one is complete without the other, because they are confined by time and space. Love on the other hand, exactly like the creation itself, is neutral, timeless and limitless. Love is a creational quality, while any kind of physical phenomenon has to have two sides. In fact, Love, spirit, wisdom, and logic share this unique creational quality. What is the purpose of life then? you are exactly to the point my dear Scott; it is the Creational evolution using the four fibers above to have had made it happen. These, my friends, are the basic ingredients of the soup we call the cosmos. BTW have you guys noticed LOVE in reverse is EVOL. Just sharing! Love,and Salome Zhila, Thank you Billy. | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 585 Registered: 10-2007 |
.. Ed-Hunter, [ "...where we will then have to begin their evolution all over again until we catch up with ourselves; that this to you is a balanced creation at work?" ] --- A Spirit NEVER loses whatever it gains. ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ [ "...something is not right..." ] --- That "something" is your thinking. You are still carrying a LOT of useless baggage. Throw out all your pre-conceptions, take a deep breath, reflect on what you have written, and see if you can find where the Logic breaks down. You must find this yourself. ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ [ "...sacrifice ones own self evolution..." ] --- It's been a long since I've read anything so Obtuse. I gotta call you out on this --- Pure Bull$#it ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ [ "...everything is gradually disintegrating, that the universe should have already wasted away..." ] --- The Universe, even now, is still undergoing continuous Material creation. New Stars, Galaxies, and planets for New Spirit-Forms. This will also continue up until the mid-point in the Cycle of this Creation Universe. Creation itself, is continuously regenerating it's creation. Creation also continuously regenerates It's own Spirit Energy from the Ultra-Fine Energy of the Absolute Absolutum. ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ [ "...a little clarification in between the quotes..." ](?) --- Where I said "These are my words for you..." Those ARE MY words, not quotes. I quote my own thoughts. Clarification must LIGHT-UP in your own thoughts. ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ [ "...leave love out of the process of evolving..." ] --- Well, I should have added one more line..: Creation IS Love. Happy Hunting .. You say you want an Evolution, well you know, we're all doing what we can. -(Beatles revamped) Rod | ||
Pathfinder Member Post Number: 290 Registered: 10-2008 |
Scott, I am trying to avoid sounding like I am making personal references to you or anyone in particular here so bear that in mind as we talk. Let me ask you a question in this way. Would you be willing to step in front of a bullet to save my life if we were close friends and you loved me? You have the free will to do so and yet by doing so you abruptly end your ability to increase your knowledge base for the next reincarnation. What if we were on a crashing plane with only one parachute, and you chose to save yourself in this instance and leave me to plummet to my death? Would you suppose that to be a mistake? Some would say it was a matter of survival of the fittest. But if you factor in love for your fellow man it would be considered a mistake to let one die needlessly to save yourself. What value do we place on heroism and selflessness? If we value such acts than it would be a mistake to act otherwise, or at least something that we should do differently if we had to do over again, which means it would be learning the mistake we made. Free will should not be an excuse to make mistakes so we can learn from them to evolve. The fact that we learn from them is vital to evolving but does one really have to have jumped off of a tall building at some time in his incarnations to evolve? Free will does not dictate that we MUST make mistakes, only that if we do, that we learn from them and do not continue to make them over and over again. One does not have to experience the bad in creation in order to evolve to higher levels of spirituality, or to have acted barbarically to be familiar with such things so as to learn from them. Will anyone say that one must have been a murderer or a rapist at some point in their history so that they could learn from those mistakes? It seems that what is being taught here is that one would have to have experienced the mistakes of acting selfishly to learn how to be selfless. I would disagree with that intensely and suggest that one should be able to attain higher degrees of evolution without ever having been a murderer and that love can attain this goal without the 'anti-love'. If, as some say, creation is merely the continuing evolution of an energy that began long ago, and that all aspects of it are worthy of experience for the process, and that evolution progresses even in the midst of 'anti-love', than exactly what is it that I am supposed to revere? Am I to revere the raping of an innocent child because it is one with creation? Am I to rever the annihilation of a planet's inhabitants through a cosmic disaster because that is just part of the creational process? What you are basically saying is that one must take the good with the bad, as though the bad can be something good if we learn from it. What I am saying is that learning it is not healthy to sit next to a pile of crap is natural, but that doesn't make the experience good or suggest that we all need to try it to find out. Just because something exists in creation doesn't mean that it is something that should be experienced to evolve. However, love is unique in this regard. And this is what I am trying to get to. In all of your teachings here about learning and gathering knowledge and professing a reverence for creation, love is not just another one of those things we should experience to evolve. It is not in the same category as anything else. It is one of the main and necessary ingredients that cannot be missed. One can evolve without ever having betrayed their wife or having killed a neighbor, but one cannot and will not ever evolve without learning to love. So, would you kill me in order to learn from that mistake for the sake of evolution, and would you suggest that one must experience that mistake to learn and evolve? I do not think that is what you would say, but in reality that is what is being taught here subliminally as I see it. Love is the same as truth and wisdom. They cannot be separated and are essential for evolution. Creation has some serious problems going on which are not things to be respected. Yes, creation is amazing and there is much glory, but something is amiss with regard to the origin of it, and the love which should originate from such an origin, whatever it is, given the fact that love itself is such a vital part of creation and evolution. If the creation that you know and profess was to really be what it claims to be, than it should be willing to sacrifice itself for me, if love is really there, which means that it would end its own evolution for me, to save me from the horrors of some of its own elements. Where is the love? It is not there in creation for some reason, and yet it exists within the spirit of man and is an essential to our development. Love is unique from every other thing in creation, and it alone can evolve a man to higher levels of spirituality. The rest is just the fallen crumbs off the cake. Sincerely, Hunter http://www.blueskinsearcher.blogspot.com/ "Therefore nothing may mislead him to un-truth and falseness, because his entire BEING is in the creational cognition of infinite truth." Contact 18:62 | ||
Pathfinder Member Post Number: 291 Registered: 10-2008 |
Zhila, Are you saying that the Creator/origin whatever that may be, had to become both a murderer and a lover in order to evolve to a higher degree of lover? I would adamantly oppose that thinking. Love contains no degree of necessity for duality with regards to a negative or evil aspect of it. That is comparing apples and oranges and saying one cannot exist without the other. Again I say that love is unique in the universe. Hunter "Therefore nothing may mislead him to un-truth and falseness, because his entire BEING is in the creational cognition of infinite truth." Contact 18:62 | ||
Earthling Member Post Number: 154 Registered: 05-2008 |
I am tossing this dialogue on love vs terror, among other subjects, spoken about here; Any comments as it relates to Billy's teaching is appreciated. ====================================== Q: When man is the same everywhere, why is there so much difference among men? I find a contradiction between the problems that man is facing in America and Europe and those he is facing in underdeveloped countries. For example, drugs, sex, crime, and pleasure are the issues in America and West European countries, but poverty, lack of education, and death due to malnutrition are the issues in the underdeveloped countries. A: The difference is artificially created by the Western nations. They had the advantage of the technical know-how which was born out of the industrial revolution. When the revolution went to America, with the help of that technical know-how they exploited the resources of God's plenty there. You know there was a time when anybody could go to the United States without a passport. But in 1911 they introduced the necessity to have a passport to enter the United States. In 1923 they introduced the immigration laws. Once you are there in a particular place and establish yourself and your rights, it is finished. (I am giving this as an example, but this applies to every country.) If anybody lands and colonizes any place on any planet, they will establish their rights there and prevent all other nations from landing there. The Americans established these same rights. It was God's plenty that helped the nations to develop and hold on to what they have. But they continue to exploit the resources of the rest of the world as well as their own resources. Even today they are doing that. They don't want to give up. Basically, human nature is exactly the same whether in India or in Russia or in America or in Africa. Human problems are exactly the same. All the problems are artificially created by the various structures created by human thinking. As I said, there is some sort of (I can't make a definitive statement) neurological problem in the human body. Human thinking is born out of this neurological defect in the human species. Anything that is born out of human thinking is destructive. Thought is destructive. Thought is a protective mechanism. It draws frontiers around itself, and it wants to protect itself. It is for the same reason that we also draw lines on this planet and extend them as far as we can. Do you think these frontiers are going to disappear? They are not. Those who have entrenched themselves, those who have had the monopoly of all the world's resources so far and for so long, if they are threatened to be dislodged, what they would do is anybody's guess. All the destructive weapons that we have today are here only to protect that monopoly. But I am sure that the day has come for people to realize that all the weapons that we have built so far are redundant and that they cannot be used anymore. We have arrived at a point where you cannot destroy your adversary without destroying yourself. So it is that kind of terror, and not the love and brotherhood that have been preached for centuries, that will help us to live together. But this has to percolate to the level of human consciousness. (I don't want to use the words 'consciousness', or 'human consciousness', because there is no such thing as consciousness at all. I use that word only for purposes of communication.) Until this percolates to the level of human consciousness, in the sense that man sees that he cannot destroy his neighbor without destroying himself, I don't think it will help. I am sure that we have come to that point. Whenever and wherever you have an edge over your adversary or your neighbor, you will still continue to exercise what you have been holding on to for centuries. So how are you going to solve the problem? All utopias have failed. The whole mischief originated in the religious thinking of man. Now there is no use in blaming the religious thinking of man, because all the political ideologies, even your legal structures, are the warty outgrowth of the religious thinking of man. It is not so easy to flush out the whole series of experiences which have been accumulated through centuries, and which are based upon the religious thinking of man. There is a tendency to replace one belief with another belief, one illusion with another illusion. That is all we can do. Q: The developed nations know fully well that if there is a war today they will face total annihilation. There will be no victor left anywhere. But still there are these skirmishes here and there, and there is so much violence everywhere. Why is it so? Is it because that human nature, as some people say, is basically violent? A: Yes it is. Because thought is violent. Anything that is born out of thought is destructive. You may cover it up with all wonderful and romantic phrases: "Love thy neighbor as thyself." Don't forget that in the name of "Love thy neighbor as thyself" millions and millions of people have died, more than in all the recent wars put together. But we now have come to a point where we can realize that violence is not the answer, that it is not the way to solve human problems. So, terror seems to be the only way. I am not talking of terrorists blowing up churches, temples, and all that kind of thing, but the terror that if you try to destroy your neighbor you will possibly destroy yourself. That realization has to come down to the level of the common man. This is the way the human organism is functioning too. Every cell is interested in its own survival. It knows in some way that its survival depends upon the survival of the cell that is next to it. It is for this reason that there is a sort of cooperation between the cells. That is how the whole organism can survive. It is not interested in utopias. It is not interested in your wonderful religious ideas. It is not interested in peace, bliss, beatitude, or anything. Its only interest is to survive. That is all it is interested in. The survival of a cell depends upon the survival of the cell next to it. And your survival and my survival depend upon the survival of our neighbor. Q: Whatever you say, I feel that the only way for humanity to survive is to bring about a change in the heart -- and that is Love. A: No, not at all, because love implies division, separation. As long as there is division, as long as there is a separation within you, so long do you maintain that separation around you. When everything fails, you use the last card, the trump in the pack of cards, and call it love. But it is not going to help us, and it has not helped us at all. Even religion has failed to free man from violence and from ten other different things that it is trying to free us from. You see, it is not a question of trying to find new concepts, new ideas, new thoughts, and new beliefs. As I said before, what kind of a human being do you want on this globe? The human being modeled after the perfect being has totally failed. The model has not touched anything there. Your value system is the one that is responsible for the human malady, the human tragedy, forcing everybody to fit into that model. So, what do we do? You cannot do anything by destroying the value system, because you replace one value system with another. Even those who rebelled against religion, like those in the Communist countries, have themselves created another kind of value system. So, revolution does not mean the end of anything. It is only a revaluation of our value system. So, that needs another revolution, and so on and so on. There is no way. The basic question that we all have to ask for ourselves is, what kind of a human being do you want? The only answer to this human problem, if there is any answer, is not to be found through new ideas, new concepts, or new ideologies, but through bringing about a change in the chemistry of the human body. But there is a danger even there. When once we perfect genetic engineering and change the human being, there will be a tendency to hand this technology over to the state. It will then be a lot easier for them to push all the people into war and see that they can kill without a second thought. You don't have to brainwash them. You don't have to teach them love or patriotism. Brainwashing takes a century, [as, for example,] brainwashing to believe in God took centuries. The Communists took decades to brainwash their people not to believe in God. But with genetic engineering, there is no need for that kind of brainwashing process. It is a lot easier to change human beings by giving just one injection. http://www.ugkrishnamurti.net/ugkrishnamurti-net/enemy5.htm | ||
Borthwey Member Post Number: 57 Registered: 09-2007 |
Hunter, Spiritual evolution is not about the maintenance of physical structures, whether they are buildings, our bodies, the planet, etc. It’s natural for intelligent beings to arrange themselves and the world according to their needs and desires; however that is not the main thing. We are here to become better expressions of the Creation. Even if entire cultures and civilizations are wiped out by whatever means, that is not necessarily a tragedy if you consider that everything can be rethought and rebuilt in better terms. Sometimes a new beginning is necessary when a certain stagnation sets in, or when something has been developed as far as it could be. The main thing to realise is: we don’t need “God’s paternalistic love” because we are Creation itself and we are creating our own realities. Every lament, every cry and humble beg will bounce off against nothing else but our own selves! The best that we can do is understand what we deeply are all about, then we’ll cut all the whining as we realise that we are the determinators. David | ||
Borthwey Member Post Number: 58 Registered: 09-2007 |
Hunter, your references to selfless love shows an influence by what I would define as erroneous (religious) teachings. Being spiritual is not about being selfless. It’s not about being self-centered either. If you are simply selfless, you lose yourself and no one will gain anything. The act of working for the benefit of others doesn’t imply selflessness, not unless you are trying to overcome self-centeredness through it. Words are tricky here because what is being meant by selfless is not always clear. If one considers that every human: -Can’t lose anything of real value. -Is responsible for his own destiny and for every stroke of so-called good or bad luck. Then, it’s easy to dismiss any responsibility or moral duty towards others. And there is in fact the risk of imposing our opinions on what is the best on others, by pretending to help. Anyway, people will act based on what they think is best, whether or not they are putting others on the equation. Sometimes, helping yourself is the best that you can do for others. At other times, helping others is the best that you can do for yourself. While having consideration for others is definitely logical, being selfless is not a desirable thing by itself. David | ||
Cpl Member Post Number: 408 Registered: 08-2004 |
Dear Hunter, "...would it not suggest that given the length of time which it would take for races to evolve,and that we are all learning from these experiences as you point out, that at some point we should have already reached a point where there is no further barbarism?" No, not necessarily. Barbarism can always approach us from somewhere in the universe. How we would respond to that is always up to us. Our ancient past shows we apparently evolved a number of times but regressed into barbarism again and again. The Plejaren seem to have finally evolved beyond barbarism, but who can say they will never revert due to some unforeseen immense challenge from across the unknown universe. It seems most unlikely, but who's to know? Billy claims still to be somewhat barbaric (though on a different level, of course), and it may be that the only time we can know we have finally evolved beyond barbarity is when we have evolved to the semi-physical or beyond the physical completely and entered the AA levels beyond human rebirth. "I am still not convinced that something in this line of thinking is not quite in synch with what we are claiming to be a balanced creation. You have not clarified what you mean by a "balanced creation" so it is difficult for me to comment on it. If you mentioned this before our exchanges I did not see it. Is something that is evolving balanced or something creating balance as it evolves? Can something be completely balanced if it is evolving? In principle, and in time, it could be said to be, but in any one specific time instance it could equally be said to appear to be very unbalanced, especially in the instant when people are suffering greatly and careening into mass error. It all depends on what one means by ones concept of "balanced creation." "Where is selfless love for each other in this thinking? " I am going to assume by selfless love you mean love in its pure frequency for others. It is everywhere in this thinking. No one has suggested love is absent here; it is central to it all. It is when love and wisdom triumph that barbarity is banished. Love was not mentioned merely because you did not mention it or make it a part of your question. BTW the love of the Bodhisattva for others is not "self sacrificing", if this examples the self-sacrificing love you were thinking of. This was a message conveyed by many in the Piscean age because it suited the mentality and mythology for that age; but actually the Bodhisattva was/is working for his own evolution just as much as he was/is working for that of others, it is just that he did/does it through working with or helping others on their path. In truth there is at this level no difference between oneself and others; all are perceived as one and the same. The Bodhisattva does this in love and grace because that is what he has received or receives from his communion. Were he to think he was doing this without evolution of self (an interpretation of the popularly cited "turning back of self-enlightenment for the sake of others") he would be in error, because even he is still evolving, as are all, forever. But I think this is drifting away from what you really wanted to ask. And what that is I am not too sure. This is not a criticism. Perhaps the question is only half formed in your mind because you are still attempting to articulate it for your mind in words. If so it might be good to take a day or two off and think it all through and return when you have clarified the questions. "I am afraid that we simply cannot scratch love out of the painting without destroying the canvas." Absolutely. "And the self-evolution that you folks are professing just seems to me to be void of the love that I would suggest is necessary to evolve with wisdom." I have not spoken of self-evolution, but of the evolution of all: you, me, all individuals, all humanity throughout the universe, the universe, spirits, all creation, and Creation itself. You are quite right: love is necessary to evolve; it is central to it all, and as stated earlier the only reason it was not covered is because it wasn't mentioned in your question. One thing love cannot do, however, is break the laws of Creation, and love does not just come on the field and erase the suffering that is concomitant with the process of life itself. It can help greatly though, and this is why a good teacher, or truly evolving person, walks with it throughout life whenever they can. With the pure frequency of love, and thanking you for bringing it into your questioning, Chris | ||
Michael Member Post Number: 724 Registered: 10-2000 |
"Cut out all the whining", that really says it all. I think Hunter is projecting a lot of anthropomorphic thinking, with as yet unrecognized - but huge - religiously influenced thinking. All this hypothetical, "what if, should stop a bullet?" stuff is rather self-indulgent and a form of...whining. Michael Horn | ||
Marcela Member Post Number: 74 Registered: 06-2008 |
Scott: Unfortunately I don’t have time to read all the responses to your post about the meaning of life. I just wanted to say that I agree with your concept. Reading what Semjase taught us about the spirit and Creation, I realize that Creation regenerates itself through the human being. Reaching Creation is the human being's ultimate goal. After living millions of lives, we reunite with Creation; what I would like to know is that if we then create worlds and universes as a one unit. And everything starts again. We divide into millions and billions of spirits to experience material life again. But material lives are to get knowledge, help each other, discover better ways to do things, , help animals, solve problems in a balanced manner. But some humans in this quest to live material lives, they become the opposite; they become greedy, envious, and arrogant, some humans realize that power has a sweet taste and they start loving being served like kings. Salome |
