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Archive through November 30, 2008

Discussionboard of FIGU » The Creation-energy Teaching » The Application of Natural Logic (Living by the creational laws and recommendations) » Archive through November 30, 2008 « Previous Next »

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Cpl
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Post Number: 385
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, November 28, 2008 - 08:41 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Do not some ideas arise from consciousness receiving input or impressions from spirit alone, and these ideas then spark thoughts that articulate the idea leading to clear comprehension and action?
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Pathfinder
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Post Number: 149
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Friday, November 28, 2008 - 09:48 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am still struggling with the definition of spirit here on this board.

IMO all thought process is spiritual, but the teachings here seem to imply a coarse matter and fine matter difference. In these teachings consciousness seems to play a key role in the definition of thought, whether material or spiritual.

I think that thought, as a transmission from the brain, is what we see as the result of the action in the physical realm. But to dismiss the origin of thought from the spirit is wrong. I think that everything we feel and desire becomes thought process, as we simply experience the emotions. The realization and enjoyment, or pain, of actually experiencing the situation results in thoughts. Ideas would be how to further appreciate the experience, or evade it.

But it will always be spiritual with regard to its bond with the emotions of the intimate experience. We feel with our heart, and yet the heart is simply a muscle and nothing more. So do we really think with our brain? Or is feeling and thinking more spiritual than material, regardless of the vibrational fluidal energies involved as a result.

So the questions arises:

Was Creation a forethought of some mystery prior to, or an afterthought of an ever-existent entity? Was Creation the result of an idea formed from thinking with a spiritual intelligent energy or was it merely a case of gas transmitting itself into the void?

Again I say that the mystery of creations first effort in existence is not going to be known by anything that was not there at the time. And unless some entity can come forward and reveal itself as this mystery with the ability to create a universe, the answer to the mystery remains with it.

All we have to go by is what we know from the creation around us. And i know that I am spirit. i know that my body contains my spirit. I am fully aware of that truth. And searching for further knowledge that addresses that known truth leads me to believe that creation has a simliar spiritual aspect that I cannot define as passing gas or fluidal energy transmission.

These may be facts that I cannot deny, nor care to, but I am aware of a spiritual aspect that is not being acknowledged by definitions such as these. Creation has an intelligence and talent that is not addressed by physicality. Of that I am certain. I understand the danger of trying to put a face to it, but there is also an inherent danger of missing the truth when trying to remove the personality.

we fear religion so much that we are stripping creation of its spirit. that spirit IMO is the true nature of creation. What that is remains a mystery, but the evidence of it is all around us, and given the complexity and intimacy of its work, I must hesitate to regard it as some mindless energy force in a void of absolutle nothingness just for the sake of avoiding the fear of being intimate with it.

The spirit is the key to to all these things, and the teaching of the Plejaren indicate this. However i think we leave this behind when we try to delve into the mysteries, hanging on tight to the physical for our answers.
"Therefore nothing may mislead him to un-truth and falseness, because his entire BEING is in the creational cognition of infinite truth."
Contact 18:62
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J_rod7
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Post Number: 439
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Friday, November 28, 2008 - 10:51 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

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Hi Cpl,

Yes, You are correct. Depending on the Source, such Thoughts may be classified as:

> Inspiration
> Intuition
> Psychic Telepathy
> Psychic Resonance
> Spiritual Telepathy
> Spiritual Resonance

Logical Thinking, then, opens our reception to the Voice of the Spirit.

Comprehension comes from the Interaction, a resonance, the Interplay of Mind's Energy with the Energy of Truth in the Reality of BEING.

By this Experience of Internalized Truth, now synchronized with the external 'Objective' Reality, does Wisdom grow.

Salome
***
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From One Eternal Spiritual Being to All Others, Awaken to Your true Essential Being
J_rod7
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Thomas
Member

Post Number: 536
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Friday, November 28, 2008 - 11:16 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pathfinder, "thought" is by definition a noun-type of word while "thinking" would be a verb. So thoughts an ideas a both "things" and never actions.

As for the chicken and the egg, it is no mystery. The egg came first. Think about it and you will see why that is the case ;-)

As for your idea that thought came before idea, this is contradicted by the information supplied by Mr Meier. I have only that to follow in these matters since I have no direct experience in watching Creations being born...
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Markcampbell
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Post Number: 45
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Friday, November 28, 2008 - 03:46 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Ed ;

Spirit would have to be much older than physical bodies in terms of being a creation .
What I mean is , that in my limited understanding of this , that spirits have been around along time evolving before there were bodies to put them in .

For that reason , I assume that spirit is a finer creation ; more detailed and complex than a body could ever be . It is given seemingly infinite opportunities for growth .

The egg came first , but it had no shell .

MC
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Pathfinder
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Post Number: 152
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 05:19 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

to Mark,

so when you say that spirits have been evolving long before they entered a body, do you assume that they were also intelligent before an incarnation? or that they had an identity or individualism before being incarnate?

I am curious to know how you perceive the actual state of a spirit life form when you define it as more detailed and complex than the body because I am getting clues that some here see the spirit as more of a material thing that has no identity or intelligence unless it is in a body.

Oh and if the egg came first, what hen laid it?
"Therefore nothing may mislead him to un-truth and falseness, because his entire BEING is in the creational cognition of infinite truth."
Contact 18:62
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Cpl
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Post Number: 386
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 06:07 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi J-rod,

Do you mean ideas or "Thought' may be classified as Inspiration, Intuition, Psychic Telepathy, Psychic Resonance, Spiritual Telepathy, Spiritual Resonance"?

Inspiration and intuition could be, and often are, in the form of pictures and visions with no accompanying thought. These visions and images then lead to the production of thought.

Resonance to me, since no definition is given, implies feeling rather than thought.

To me, categorizing all these six as either thoughts or ideas seems somewhat limiting or likely to cause confusion. They each seem unique and adequately named to describe ways in which the fountain of spirit can reach the individual, and vice versa.

Thank you for sharing.
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Thomas
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Post Number: 542
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 09:09 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The egg always came first because every chicken came from an egg. That egg from which the chicken came, on the other hand, came from something that was still chicken but earlier along the evolutionary line. Since evolution is a long and drawn own process, the change was slow. However every chicken came from an egg thus the egg always came first if you are speaking in strictest logical terms. The whole process started with something that was not strictly chicken...
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J_rod7
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Post Number: 443
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 10:27 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

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Hi Cpl,

Sorry that this all got jumbled together.

The six forms (there are MORE than these six) are different 'channels' by which the Spirit Resonates with the Mind in the Material thinking.

Resonance is the Synchronization of Energies. The Energies may be Feelings, may be Thoughts, may be Spirit Awareness, may be the Radio tuned to a certain frequency, &c.
***
*
From One Eternal Spiritual Being to All Others, Awaken to Your true Essential Being
J_rod7
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Pathfinder
Member

Post Number: 153
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 10:35 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

well until we had an egg to say that the egg came first, we had to get the egg from somewhere.

so I guess we are still trying to figure out what laid the egg. so you are saying that whatever laid the egg was not what hatched from the egg, and that opens up a whole new line of questioning about dna and genetics then.

i was under the impression that the egg would have its parents genetic makeup and its cellular structure would mimic that of the parental genetic code.

what you seem to be saying is that something other than a chicken laid the first egg.

So what do you mean when you say not strictly chicken?
"Therefore nothing may mislead him to un-truth and falseness, because his entire BEING is in the creational cognition of infinite truth."
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J_rod7
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Post Number: 444
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 12:18 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

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Reptiles lay Eggs

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From One Eternal Spiritual Being to All Others, Awaken to Your true Essential Being
J_rod7
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Rarena
Member

Post Number: 367
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 12:39 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Pathfinder, whomever you are...

I was just explaining this to my daughter...

She was whining about her big sister hurting her arm... I explained two ideas in the thought stage of evolution and told her about them and in thirty years she will be living in what is in my mind right now...

Which is more important I asked... Being a victim about needing attention or having a place to live in thirty years?

The second one, she timidly said...

A being is a construct of creation... We create and construct houses... they don't start as homes, but impressions, intuition, ideas, thoughts, intentions and finally real material course matter houses... and while living in them they eventually become homes...

Salome
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Rarena
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Post Number: 368
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 12:55 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Cpl,

I might add... resonance is light, density, waves, ideas, thoughts, feelings and emotions as well and just about everything in the electomagnetic spectrum resonating at infinitely varing frequencies in all dimensions...

Many on Earth tend to have the need "to see it to believe it" and is one reason the Plejaren don't land on the White House lawn... Because even though they see it... they in their thought process will not fully understand until our cognizence is capable of knowing the truth without it having to be proven.

Semjase told him: "Doubts, distrust and criticism are not servicable to our mission..." C9 3/21/1975.

Semjase often told Billy to get the meaning with only one lesson or sentence. She had to tell him on three or more different occasions that she will not allow anyone else to acompany him to the contacts in order to eliminate the possibility of false interpretation as Jmmanual incured... and the resulting bible of which there are at least 47 different renditions...
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Thomas
Member

Post Number: 544
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 01:21 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Let's put it like this with an example Pathfinder: If a horse and a donkey mate, they get a mule. If you ask "Which came first, the mule or the fertilized egg?" the answer is obvious.

the same goes for chickens. EVERY chicken in nature comes from an egg. The egg may or may not always be the result of two genetically similar chickens. Over the centuries, chickens today developed from earlier chicken-like creatures. This means that, even though other similar creatures came before in order to mate and produce later versions, AKA "offspring" then resulting chicken or whatever creature we would like to deal with, came from its own egg without exception.

If you want to widen the scope more to your liking, a better question might be "Within the lineage of chickens, what was the first creature to bear a fertilized egg yielding an offspring?"

With THAT question in mind, it would still be correct to say that, in strict regard to chickens and their eggs, the eggs always came first. However if you are not refering to chickens but instead their evolutionary lineage, then a creature of some sort logically had to be the first to lay an egg that yielded a birth...

Does this help you? It isn't difficult logic to follow but it does require a bit of thinking out. Once you see the logic in it, everything becomes clear.
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J_rod7
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Post Number: 446
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 02:56 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

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Some Egg-laying Reptiles grew Feathers

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From One Eternal Spiritual Being to All Others, Awaken to Your true Essential Being
J_rod7
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Pathfinder
Member

Post Number: 157
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 03:44 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No i got it now Thomas, but I am havin a little difficulty trying to figure out how a donkey actually mates with a chicken egg, the egg having no actual vagina or penis.

What your talking about is genetics, thats avoiding the issue. we want to try to conceive of that first being that began the rest of creation. Not a chicken or an egg or a mule. Its not a matter of which came first, its a matter of what was there first, when there were no chickens to lay eggs, mules to mate with donkeys, or horny eggs to mate with whatever you think the first egg mated with to produce a chicken.
"Therefore nothing may mislead him to un-truth and falseness, because his entire BEING is in the creational cognition of infinite truth."
Contact 18:62
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Phi_spiral
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Post Number: 357
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 08:55 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thomas, here is a passage from Billy's Macht der Gedanken which might provide additional insight to you question:

Alles entspringt der Macht seiner Gedanken, die aus einer Idee oder aus einer Wahrnehmung oder aus sonst irgendeiner Form herauskeimen und sich entfalten, ganz ähnlich einer Pflanze, die ihren Ursprung im Samenkorn findet. Sinnbildlich betrachtet sind die Ideen, Wahrnehmungen und sonstigen Formen die Samenkörner der menschlichen Gedanken, die ohne die Besamung niemals Wirklichkeit werden könnten. Sind sie aber erst einmal ange¬regt und geschaffen, dann entwickeln sie ein eigenes Leben, genau wie die Pflanzen; und genau wie diese schaffen sie in sich auch eigene Kraft und Macht, durch die alles Innere und Äussere gestaltet wird. Und dies trifft auf alles und jedes zu, so also gleichermassen auf alle Taten und Handlungen sowie auf sonst alle Bedingungen und Umstände des Lebens.

My rough unofficial translation:

"Everything arises from the power of thoughts which unfold from an idea or from a perception or from otherwise any form developed outside and themselves, quite like a plant which finds origin in the seminal grain. Symbolically, the ideas, perceptions and other forms are looked at as the seeds of the human thoughts that could never become reality without the insemination. If they are stimulated, however, firstly and are created, then they develop own life, exactly like the plants; and exactly like this they create in themselves also own strength and power by which all internal and external will is formed. And this is true of each and everything, so therefore equally to all deeds and actions and otherwise all the conditions and circumstances of life."

Regards
Bob
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Thomas
Member

Post Number: 552
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 11:18 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you Bob...
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Pathfinder
Member

Post Number: 158
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2008 - 04:48 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

to Phi Spiral,

here a thought and idea is compared to a plant which blooms forth from the original seed. Seeds and thoughts which cannot bloom without insemination, after which they become stimulated to live. And as they live they grow into greater plants and ideas.

Note in this paragraph where it is also specifically stated, "FIRSTLY AND CREATED"

How does this post address the very first thought or seed created and how that first creation became stimulated? This post is an observation, but certainly not a revelation.
"Therefore nothing may mislead him to un-truth and falseness, because his entire BEING is in the creational cognition of infinite truth."
Contact 18:62
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Phi_spiral
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Post Number: 358
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2008 - 10:01 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pathfinder,

The passage succinctly explains the dynamics of ideas, perceptions, impressions and other forms to the stimulus of thoughts. If you go back to the beginning of this string, you will note that I am addressing a specific query by Thomas wherein he ponders:

Thomas: “All I wanted was the DEFINITIONS AND DIFFERENCES between "idea" and "thought" as used in FIGU materials…”

Do not confuse this discussion string with another discussion string elsewhere on the forum, which Thomas explained, veered from his primary concern. Whether or not the passage has value for Thomas, is for Thomas to decide. Since Thomas has politely thanked me, I assume that it has. That is my application of natural logic.

Where I have used the word “created” in the translated passage, “firstly and created”, may also be interpreted as nurtured. Another translator may have used different wording. The essence though, is that the stimulus of thought is not simply ignored but cultivated.

Billy elucidates further:
Gedanken sind immer mit Macht und Kraft gepaart, denn allein dadurch ist der Fortschritt gewährleistet. Gedanken ohne Kraft und Macht jedoch sind wie ein Körper ohne Lebenskraft, wie ein Feuer ohne Wärme oder wie ein Wort ohne Sinn.

My unofficial rough translation:
“Thoughts are always paired with power and strength, because only the progress is thereby guaranteed. Thoughts without strength and power, nevertheless, are like a body without vitality, how a fire without warmth or how a word without sense.”

In the last sentence of the passage in post 357, Billy says this dynamic essentially applies to everything. It is the same process going back to the beginning. So we have the understanding now that the original thought, from whatever unknown stimulus, went through a process of sustained nurtured focus (creation) to bring about all-that-is. And the same process continues today, within us and without us, and continues ad infinitum. The value is in understanding the process correctly so that it may be properly used to improve our lives. Thoughts flutter in and out of our mind constantly from unknown sources, but it’s the thoughts we choose to focus on and sustain and nurture and give strength to, that becomes our creation. What Billy is telling us is that everything does not begin with a thought, so much as everything begins with nurtured thoughts.

I would say that this is a valuable revelation to those who choose to apply the principle in their daily life, along with similar teachings from Billy about meditation.

Regards
Bob
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Pathfinder
Member

Post Number: 165
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2008 - 02:33 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hi Bob,

is it okay if I call you Bob?

Im not sure why everyone seems to take offense to my continued reference to first cause in this discussion as you yourselves keep refering to it everytime you talk about origin.

It seems to me that the discussion progressed from thomas original post to this area when he himself began to corrolate thought and ideas with the orginal thoughts and ideas or creation.

I am just trying to add to the conversation but I think I will drop out of this one. if anyone would like to talk about the actual origin of creation somewhere else I'd be glad to. I find it extremely fascinating.
"Therefore nothing may mislead him to un-truth and falseness, because his entire BEING is in the creational cognition of infinite truth."
Contact 18:62
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Pathfinder
Member

Post Number: 166
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2008 - 02:52 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bob,

I also wanted to let you know that I should have chosen my words a little differently regarding that passage that you cited.

I did not mean that it was not a revelation of worthy of study. all of BEAM's work is worthy. What I should have said was that the post you used did not reveal the answer to what I thought we were discuissing. Sorry for the confusion. I can see how you might have taken that offensively.
"Therefore nothing may mislead him to un-truth and falseness, because his entire BEING is in the creational cognition of infinite truth."
Contact 18:62
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Markcampbell
Member

Post Number: 49
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2008 - 10:44 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Ed Pathfinder ;

Maybe I shouldn't have made the comment ; it was more on the lines of my self-calculated idea of the matter . I didn't describe something from the Geisteslehre by doing so .I will answer this time , therefore , by just thinking aloud , not referring to the authorized material , or anyone's book , as a matter of .

I think that spirits before material life had a direct connection to the infinite , not the usual kind of consciousness , but something else ; learning about existence before the fact , playing a part perhaps in creating reality .There must have been more energy to the original human spirits before there were bodies .
I don't really know !
Most likely , the spirits were inhabiting those large one celled creatures that Billy wrote about in Genesis , the ones that were our designated ancestors .

The first chicken egg would have had to be something similar , a blob amoeba-like creature that evolved into some kind of lizard-like clucking thing destined for a future of food- chain horror.

Cheers , MC

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