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Message |
   
Michael_horn
Member
Post Number: 149
Registered: 07-2009
| | Posted on Monday, February 08, 2010 - 11:45 am: | 
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But do we not have a hint from Ptaah that, in reality, using anything we currently have to "blow up" (dissolve, etc.) Apophis carries with it more definite dangers of deflection, Dyson? |
Gaiaguysnet
Member
Post Number: 920
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Monday, February 08, 2010 - 06:46 pm: |
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Dear Michael,
You wrote, "But do we not have a hint from Ptaah that, in reality, using anything we currently have to "blow up" (dissolve, etc.) Apophis carries with it more definite dangers of deflection, Dyson?"
I'm glad you asked me that. ;-]
If I take your slightly difficultly-worded question correctly, (and I remember correctly all that Ptaah had to say about it, in German) then, your answer is, no, we DO have a hint from Ptaah that using "current" (as opposed to "black") terrestrial technology could indeed be very dangerous.
If you meant, "more definite dangers OF deflection" then I'm confused by your question. If you meant, "more definite dangers THAN deflection" then I can proceed.
" ... droht der Erde tatsächlich eine Katastrophe. Um diese zu vermeiden sind aber auch die irdischen Wissenschaftler angehalten, alles erdenklich Mögliche zu unternehmen, um den Meteor endgültig aus seiner Bahn zu drängen."
( ... a catastrophe is really threatening Earth. In order to avoid it the terrestrial scientists are also urged to undertake everything conceivable to finally push the meteor from its orbit.)
"Die [automare] Explosionen dürfen jedoch nicht zu nahe des Meteors stattfinden, damit nicht eine Zerstückelung erfolgt, durch die eine noch grössere Gefahr entstünde.
the [atomic] explosions may not occur too close to the meteor in order to avoid the breaking up, from which an even greater danger would result.
http://theyfly.com/Red_Meteor.html
That's the gist of it, and Ptaah is naturally not talking about anything but a deflection in the first line, above, as opposed to something more destructive. He then speaks of "atomic explosions". Of course, we cannot be specifically told about all the other stuff at this stage of our collective ignorance because, as he would say, "That would lead too far".
So - because Ptaah can't tell us about the Hutchinson Effect, Scalar weapons, etc.,etc.,etc. YET - he's (IMO) trying to get scientists to think outside the box a little, something you personally know is a big ask, Michael. (" ... the terrestrial scientists are also urged to undertake everything conceivable .. ")
We are given, by Billy & Co., either vague generalities or active "concealment" (as opposed, of course, to "lies") about all the many, many things that we Earthlings are, in general, not yet ready to cope with, due to our woeful ignorance of our own terrestrial reality. Only when we can collectively demonstrate to the Plejaren ETs that we've wised up enough - by doing our OWN research - will Billy and the Plejaren provide some corroboration from their side.
Remember Ptaah's warning about "futuristic weapons, of which the normal Earth humans have no idea, and of which they do not ever dare to dream."? http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/gaiaguys/meiersb34.htm
Remember? Even though those of us from the Disclosure Project were trying to reveal these things several years ago, our warnings were met with naked hostility here among Billy's dogmatic devotees. We had to wait patiently until 2007 for this Plejaren corroboration - also, from the same contact (as above) on Billy's 70th birthday, come the following. (I don't want to say, "I told you so", but I told you so.)
"For the entire machinations of the group*, the meanest machinations are quite good enough which, as said, were already operating since the 1920s and to that also belong highly developed electronic weapons systems, futuristic flying discs, Earth humans who are hypnotically and surgically converted, as well as converted in their consciousness, to robots, whereby some have an appearance like the being which is called the 'Little Gray'".- Ptaah
*remarked upon more specifically some two years later, in KdW, as "eine geheime Ordnung der Dunkelheit" (a secret order of darkness)
So we can all agree that Ptaah is hardly going to mention whacky/scary-sounding pulverising-at-a-distance/Hutchinson Effect weapons, which nobody was supposed to be able to be openly taking about anyway in twenty ten, but for the failure of the "9/11" attacks to smash the Whitehouse and instigate martial law, etc. It's all out there, folks.
And, who's to say that just deflecting the cussed rock wouldn't be easier than reducing it to powder, using the same "Black Shelf" technology alluded to above and elsewhere by Billy and Ptaah? Why don't we simply use a tractor beam? Everybody knows what they are. Along with "warp speed", "beamed me up, Scotty" and the Enterprise's mobile phones, the ETs have been busy getting us ready for reality for many years.
But assuming we do decide to pulverise (not "blow up") Apophis, here's what would happen. When it is still far, far away, we start beaming the thing, and it's molecular structure starts to break down as a result of the effects of these powerful and complex, modulated microwaves. (Scalar is different, and does not require line-of-sight.) Just like the WTC towers' solid concrete, steel and office workers, Apophis starts to come apart, turning into a very fine dust. Its supposed to weigh somewhere around 45 to 250 million tons, depending on which scientists you believe. So, let's say, 250 millions tons of this stuff eventually is caught by our gravity and starts to waft gently down into the upper atmosphere: depending on its grain size, it either burns up as a pretty meteor shower, or filters down to be added to the planet's loosening topsoil, which is already blowing around all over the place here on Planet Suicide. Or some combination of the two.
That's my take on it anyway. :-/
Cheers!
Dyson |
Michael_horn
Member
Post Number: 150
Registered: 07-2009
| | Posted on Monday, February 08, 2010 - 08:08 pm: |
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Yes, "than" is what I meant. I was just liberally littering alliterations and plunged ahead.
I can't speak knowledgeably about the specific advanced weapons you mentioned, so I also don't know if such weapons would be even more complex in their application. By that I mean, would there be some whole other level of finesse, and much smaller margin of error, that would be required, as opposed to detonating an atomic device whose gross effect would...do the job.
Actually, getting the "scientists" to take the danger threat seriously may be at least as difficult as the task itself, should it ever be attempted.
I can tell you that after a one-hour phone conversation, and several emails, about Apophis with Seth Shostak (SETI) that I think he is actually as dumb as a space rock and painfully arrogant. I am tempted to post the correspondence somewhere on the forum, maybe wherever comedy and humor can be found. |
J_rod7
Member
Post Number: 1169
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 09, 2010 - 12:01 am: |
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***
Dyson and Michael, I Love both of you guys. So I'm not intending to step between the both of You.
Can You spell HAARP? How about Directed Particle-Beam weapons? How about MegaWatt Lasers that could burn a hole straight through the Moon? NASA is a "front company" with the objective to keep the populace amused with the "shuttle-and-rocket-circus."
Does anyone not know that the Militaries of Earth have already been out to the Stars -- What, you actually DIDN'T know this.!?!
Think ::: TR3B (600-Foot (197-Meters) along on any of 3-sides, Anti-gravity, completely 'Hyper-Space-capable'), and VRIL Craft - both types with advanced 'cloaking technology', and both types also equipped with Electromagnetic Rail-Guns. Why do suppose most of our orbiting Detector Satellites are turned outward - away from Earth to scan Deep space. There are somebody-elses "FastWalkers" out there besides ours. Oops spilled more beans than intended.
These and some other rather nasty bits of technology actually do exist, folks. Some of them are Orbiting over your heads as you read this. Conspiracy Yes, Theory No.
However, don't think for one moment that the Militaries of ANY nation will reveal existing "secret" weapons for that stupid rock.
That's just ONE of those things where the "Cold-War" is still in effect.
Now then, if I should "disappear," you'll know why.
Peace
***
~~ TRUTH finds WISDOM finds LOVE finds PEACE -- Find What You Seek ~ Rod
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Gaiaguysnet
Member
Post Number: 921
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 09, 2010 - 12:08 am: |
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Yo Michael!
The thing about using thermonuclear explosions to shift heavy things is the ungodly speed of the shock wave they produce. This is why the Mossad/CIA micronukes used for the Bali & Oklahoma City bombings, and various other Baghdad, etc. atrocities, etc. tend to pulverize a building's reinforced concrete, but leave the steel re-enforcement rods behind, sticking out in the air.
(I imagine it might do the same thing to Apophis, and unless it was nuked a long way away, that could only compound the danger. We might get lots of huge rocks instead of just one very huge one.)
Conventional chemical explosive don't do that, particularly nitrate (so-called "fertilizer") bombs. Their shock wave is - from memory - about half the speed of nukes. Even TNT, Cemtex, etc. is slow compared to nukes.
Electrogravitics /magnetogravitics lends itself perfectly to "finessing", in just the same way that you can turn a room lamp dimmer switch very gently and achieve very delicately adjusted levels of illumination. It would have a MUCH larger margin of error than any kind of explosion, because the perturbation of Apophis's trajectory could be constantly monitored, and finely tweaked accordingly.
In my way of thinking, trying to nudge an asteroid with a nuke is like trying to light a cigarette with a hand grenade.
You write, "Actually, getting the "scientists" to take the danger threat seriously may be at least as difficult as the task itself, should it ever be attempted."
Well, that's 'cause you're not a scientist! YOU know that they only deign to speak with other High Priests, not with the lowly likes of us! Especially if you believe in space aliens!
Ummmmmm. :-/
But, as I've said to you before, Michael - when admiring your various audacious incursions deep behind enemy lines - in the immortal words of Richard Millhouse Nixon, "When you've got 'em by the balls, their hearts and minds are sure to follow." Remember all the kafuffle the P's made about Toutatis? The Plejaern are actually VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY smart, (Smarter than you imagine. Smarter than you CAN imagine) and know only too well that we stupid Earthlings (in general) will only rouse ourselves from our arrogant apathy and aboulia when we are faced with REAL DEATH. Sad but true, in my personal experience.
Are you SURPRISED that Seth Shostak is dumb? Can you imagine, in this day and age, expecting profoundly technologically advanced extraterrestrial entities to be listening to the RADIO???? Hell, mate, WE don't even listen to the RADIO anymore since God invented TELEVISION! He'd HAVE to be dumb! And arrogant people are ALWAYS stupid.
I read not long ago (or, who knows, maybe I dreamed it!) that Ptaah told us that electromagnetic waves (radio, TV, etc.) do NOT simply travel on out there forever to eventually be picked up by Jody Foster's dead father. (In the same way that sound waves won't just go on forever) eventually they get overwhelmed by the cosmic background noise from radio frequency (etc.) electromagnetism from natural processes going on in stars, supernovas, etc. So Seth serves as what radar guys call a "dummy load", which is a technicians' device which gets bolted onto the waveguide which harmlessly absorbs the microwave energy (normally left to zoom up to the antenna), turning it to heat, so the transmitter can be worked on "live". In other words, Seth absorbs the heat from all those folks who know that ET's MUST be out there, but haven't read why they don't visit and think we should be listening for them. Pathetic.
http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/gaiaguys/fermi.htm
The Disclosure Project insiders say that ET DID call, on more than one occasion, but SETI covered it up. Is anyone surprised?
http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/gaiaguys/meierv7p438-444.htm
Cheers!
Dyson |
Edward
Member
Post Number: 1670
Registered: 05-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 09, 2010 - 01:13 am: |
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Hi Michael....
You know HOW Billy and the Plejarans feel about SETI, and other such
institutional origins(?).
But, I guess...it was worth a 'try'....
Edward. |
Darren
Member
Post Number: 154
Registered: 07-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 09, 2010 - 10:55 am: |
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"....... Ptaah told us that electromagnetic waves (radio, TV, etc.) do NOT simply travel on out there forever to eventually be picked up by Jody Foster's dead father."
 |
Gaiaguysnet
Member
Post Number: 924
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 09, 2010 - 01:26 pm: |
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DUH!
Where's the forest? All these trees are blocking my view!
I thought just struck me! Ouch!
All this talk about the speed of explosives' shock waves and their destructive effects doesn't take the hard vacuum of outer space (where there is no air to be compressed!) into consideration at all!
What effect does an explosion in outer space actually HAVE? Precious little, would be my guess, in so far as pushing asteroids around is concerned.
La de da!
Cheers!
Dyson |
Kingman
Member
Post Number: 769
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 09, 2010 - 09:49 pm: |
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But space itself is not empty, as we continue to discover. And do we really know what a nuclear explosion in space is capable of? It may be more powerful through different means. All my experiments were cancelled do to funding shortages, unfortunately.
a friend in america
Shawn
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Jokoveltman
Member
Post Number: 18
Registered: 11-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 09, 2010 - 11:03 pm: |
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Dyson,
You are correct, a nuclear blast would not propagate a shock wave in space. However, a shock wave is not necessary to impart energy to an asteroid and thus displace it from its orbit. Case in point: have you ever seen those little glass vacuum bulbs with a little "fan" inside that whirs into motion just from the "weak" light of a small flashlight?
Peace,
Tim |
Smukhuti
Member
Post Number: 198
Registered: 06-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 10, 2010 - 10:00 am: |
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Actually even outer space is not total vacuum. It's contain charged particle, and directional pressure from constant solar wind. The nuclear trigger has to go off and this needs some initial air supply. From then on, the explosion will pump enough (additional) charged particles in and around the blast so that for a few seconds there can be a region of space where blast can occur with visible light and heat. The blast radius will be much much smaller, but it would surely happen. There will be no shock waves as in shock-waves comprising of super heated air, but there can be wind comprising of charged particles.
A nuclear explosion at an optimum distance from the asteroid will heat its one side relative to another. Combined with the effect of charged particle wind, there is bound to be some effect. That 390m rock just needs a very gentle push at a great enough distance for it to be nudged away. Of course these are all speculations as to my knowledge no nations have ever blasted nukes in outer space - as in totally outside of the atmosphere.
It's very inspiring to see nuclear explosion in vacuum happen every day by just lifting our head high and see the sun.
Salome.
Suv
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Jonzie
Member
Post Number: 43
Registered: 04-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 10, 2010 - 02:37 pm: |
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[Dust filters down and covers the top soil ...]
Have you ever tried to breath in a dust storm? Think of a storm in a desert. Think of volcano ash. Hint: you die.
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth."
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Gaiaguysnet
Member
Post Number: 935
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, February 11, 2010 - 07:27 am: |
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Dear Tim & Suv,
Of course I know about that. I was only remarking on the absence of compressive media.
Dear Jonzie,
As a matter of fact, I have personally experienced dust storms. Dust, while dangerous, is not the same as volcanic ash.
"On May 10, 1934, a collection of dust storms moved over the Midwest [USA] carrying, Egan says, "Storms in March and April 1935 dumped 4.7 tons of dust per acre on western Kansas, denting the tops of cars. During one storm, the wind blew at least 40 mph for 100 hours. Egan reports that it would have required a line of trucks 96 miles long, hauling 10 loads a day for a year -- 46 million truckloads -- to transport the dirt that had blown from western to eastern Kansas."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/27/AR2007042702015.html
Apophis is small change.
The Hutchinson Effect device could be tuned to control grain size, so we get sand and/or gravel, which burns up in the upper atmosphere as harmless and beautiful meteors. And dust coming in from outer space would spread very very thinly with high-altitude winds, so there's no comparison to surface soil being lifted, and nowhere near the density. In short, your angst is misplaced, as far as Apophis dust is concerned.
Cheers!
Dyson |
Jonzie
Member
Post Number: 44
Registered: 04-2009
| | Posted on Friday, February 12, 2010 - 11:13 am: |
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Dyson, you were out in a dust storm in the mid-west in 1934? Sorry, you'd have to prove that, Mate. Maybe your parents were in a house somewhere, safe. You personally 'experienced' this? You'd have to be 90-years-old. Sorry, I don't believe you at all.
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth."
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Smukhuti
Member
Post Number: 205
Registered: 06-2009
| | Posted on Friday, February 12, 2010 - 09:19 pm: |
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I thought Dyson never meant to say he witnessed "that" dust-storm of 1934. I thought it was an example cited.
Salome.
Suv
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Gaiaguysnet
Member
Post Number: 948
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, February 14, 2010 - 11:10 pm: |
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Dear Jonzie,
Suv is right. I'm not that old. Where I live, in Australia, a lot of the topsoil has started blowing around, and even the big cities are not immune.
Google (images) "Australian dust storms" and have a look at Sydney last December.
So any Apophis dust that might filter down is nothing to worry about.
Cheers!
Dyson |
Jonzie
Member
Post Number: 47
Registered: 04-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 16, 2010 - 01:26 pm: |
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Dyson,I thank you. My error in misunderstanding.
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth."
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Smukhuti
Member
Post Number: 240
Registered: 06-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, February 28, 2010 - 12:13 pm: |
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An update on the Russian dilemma of "attacking" Apophis and the decision making challenge that Apophis presents: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/the-politics-of-armageddon/article1465136/
In an unrelated news, a search for PC games yielded that now there is a PC game called 'Rage' that is set on post Apophis hit earth!
Salome.
Suv
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Indi
Moderator
Post Number: 404
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, February 28, 2010 - 05:02 pm: |
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Reminder:
Please make sure only links to Figu and Figu related material are active
thankyou
Robyn
(Message edited by indi on February 28, 2010) |
Scott
Moderator
Post Number: 1950
Registered: 12-1999
| | Posted on Sunday, February 28, 2010 - 08:55 pm: |
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Hi Robyn,
I have noticed while a link may look active (blue), sometimes the person chooses to change the color of the font, but only to draw attention to it, but does not change the formatting to make it an active link, even though it may appear to be so.
Regards
Scott |
Markcampbell
Member
Post Number: 399
Registered: 10-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, February 28, 2010 - 10:47 pm: |
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Maybe it would be better to change the color of those pseudo-links . Pages that are not really links . Green .
MC |
Smukhuti
Member
Post Number: 244
Registered: 06-2009
| | Posted on Monday, March 01, 2010 - 02:04 am: |
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The idea behind making links blue was on one hand to separate it from normal text and on the other hand, make it recognisable as links while at the same time conforming to the forum rule of not putting in any non-FIGU active links. I can switch to a different colour.
Salome.
Suv
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Earthling
Member
Post Number: 399
Registered: 05-2008
| | Posted on Monday, March 08, 2010 - 05:20 am: |
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http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2010/03/did-the-planets-most-massive-asteroid-impact-ever-occur-in-antarctica-nasa-gravity-maps-point-to-yes.html
"Earth's Biggest Asteroid Impact Ever -Did It Occur in Antarctica? NASA Gravity Maps Point to "Yes""
"In 2006, NASA gravity and subsurface radar maps revealed a 500-kilometer-wide crater that lies hidden more than a mile beneath the East Antarctic Ice Sheet, created by a 50-kilometer wide object. The gravity measurements suggest that it could date back about 250 million years -- the time of the Permian-Triassic extinction, when almost all animal life on Earth died out." |
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