| Author |
Message |
   
Indi
Moderator
Post Number: 610
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 13, 2011 - 03:41 am: | 
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Andy,
I think that your continual interest and bringing up of this topic makes me wonder if you are just waiting for someone here to give you permission or to encourage you or to say it is okay to take a drug for the purpose of supposed spiritual enlightenment.
All I can say is that to put your mind to rest on it once and for all, that FIGU never has and never will encourage anyone to take these drugs.
That claims are made about eg., Ibogaine, that a spiritual awakening can be attained from its use, could be just claims. Many people who take these drugs have different experiences. All people will unlikely have the same experience. Those who do have some kind of 'euphoric' state may interpret it as spiritual enlightenment - however, there is no proof out there that this is what can happen when taking it.
If you want to take a drug, it is your choice. What you get out of it, is in no way connected to spiritual growth as in the Spiritual teachings from Billy and FIGU.
There are no 'hints' in that article. Maybe you are seeing what you want to see.
If you do a search on Ibogaine, which I am sure you already have done, you will discover that most of the hits are all from the same source, which is not even mentioned openly, and just repeated statements. This kind of thing happens constantly with many topics, and it is very difficult to find any original source for many of these kinds of claims.
That Ibogaine can help people with addiction to certain drugs- well that might be so. To confuse that research with the hope for spiritual awakening is in my view a big mistake.
Any spiritual awakening, if it exists, when coming from the taking of a drug, would only ever likely be due to the temporary dropping of a barrier that naturally exists within the person. To remove this barrier temporarily may allow a person to have some insights they did not have before, but any insights they get will be no different to the insights they could also get if they learned to lift the barrier themselves via meditation and other practices as outligned in the material from Billy and FIGU.
There is not fast track, without putting in the hard work. There may appear to be, but at the end of the day, the person having the 'awakening' has to know and be ready for what that brings or it will readily fall by the wayside.
So, Andy, please can we finish the topic of the taking of psychedelic drugs to gain spiritual advantage?
Robyn
Rules & Netiquette
http://forum.figu.org/cgi-bin/us/discus.cgi?pg=instructions#rules
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Jacob
Moderator
Post Number: 703
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 13, 2011 - 04:47 am: |
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To add to Robyn's post:
The moderating team of the FIGU forum and FIGU distance ourselves from any abuse and use of any controlled substance and anyone promoting the trade, distribution and use in any form or fashion.
Any drugs, deemed to be legal in your country of residence should only be taken after consulting a qualified and licensed medical professional.
We oppose strongly any use of any illegal drugs or any prescription drugs without consulting a licensed medical professional. Any use is SOLELY for your own responsibility.
We also distance ourselves from the use of any uncontrolled and/or free available drugs. Any use is SOLELY for your own responsibility. Always use your common sense in using any drugs. We will not accept any liability for misuse / use of aforementioned illegal, prescription and uncontrolled drugs.
We do promote a discussion but we have to take this legal stance as well.
(Message edited by jacob on July 13, 2011)
Salome,
Jacob
Saalome gam naan ben uurda, gan njjber asaala hesporoona!
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J_rod7
Member
Post Number: 1406
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 13, 2011 - 06:54 pm: |
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******
This morning the Pleiades arose up the Eastern horizon.
A sign that order is still working in the Universe
Let us then seek to bring back order into lives
Let fears and anxieties be replaced with Hope and Truth
For the Pleiades are risen again, the sign of Peace
Be at Peace as we grow in Wisdom and Love
Peace be with us all = Salome
******
~~ TRUTH finds WISDOM finds LOVE finds PEACE -- Find What You Seek ~ Rod
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Andyv24
Member
Post Number: 10
Registered: 08-2010
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 13, 2011 - 09:17 pm: |
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Wow. Well. Wasn't expecting that. Last thing wanted to do was upset you guys, the moderators, especially two of the voices on here I respect so much.
I was just going to say "fair enough" and leave it at that...But...if you'll let this one last post through though so I can say my peace.
As for your first statement Robyn, honestly, that's probably about accurate--when I seek knowledge and wisdom, this is one of my go to spots.
As for some of your other comments, you must know they are not quite fair. For one, you say there are no hints in the referenced article, technically I guess you are right because it is not so much of a hint but rather plainly stated "It is no secret that there exist some plants that have some consciousness-expanding influence to the human."
As for the Ibogaine bit, I'm a little confused--you say the source "is not even mentioned openly"--it is, and I mentioned it in my early post, it's striaght from Billy's mouth in the questions to Billy section.
Jacob, I hear you loud and clear. And on that note, yes, Robyn, I will give the topic a rest...
I feel like I should apologize but I dont know what for...
At any rate...I'll explore the topic elsewhere. Thanks |
Jacob
Moderator
Post Number: 706
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, July 14, 2011 - 12:20 am: |
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The reason why I made such post is because this forum can be read by guests and forum members alike , there is undisputable a very huge drug abuse problem on this planet.
If we would recommend or even give the suggestion to use a substance, how innocent it would seem, and a person would decide to consume a huge amount of that substance and dies, then we have a big legal issue, sad but true. We are not saying the majority does this, we say this for the small minority who does.
Often people have done things “because it didn’t say in the manual they couldn’t or shouldn’t do that.”, and did not use their common sense and reason!
Also the use of chemical substances to improve ones material-consciousness-related development is not recommended since it should be done in a natural way, by studying and learning, and not trying to find a quick fix.
Salome,
Jacob
Saalome gam naan ben uurda, gan njjber asaala hesporoona!
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Indi
Moderator
Post Number: 611
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, July 14, 2011 - 12:36 am: |
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Hi Andy
Sorry if my post to you sounded 'strong'. I wrote it in a hurry, and know it was not exactly the way I would have done it if I had spent more time on it.
There are a couple of points though I would like to clarify - When I said that there were no hints, I was meaning that there was not hidden information in Billy's statement. He was not suggesting anything more than 'there are some plants that have consciousness-expanding influence on humans' that is all he was saying. He was not saying 'and therefore it is ok to take them to expand your consciousness.' He was just stating a fact.
Re your other comment about me saying there being no evidence of the source - well, I was referring to the many internet articles on this topic, eg., Ibogaine. That Billy made that comment is not anything outstanding, as he was just repeating what is mentioned on the many internet sites and in many books. It was not any new information that came from Billy.
The source of many beliefs can often be anecdotal. When it is, it is important to investigate for oneself the merits or negatives of a particular thing.
All Billy was discussing was, that yes, there are plants out there that when ingested or taken into the bloodstream in some way, will cause an effect on the brain, and therefore the consciousness. Some drugs will expand consciousness, and others will have a not so expansive or opposite effect. Some will excite, and others will depress.
I don't think anything in Billy's writings suggests anything - all it offers are statements of reality, of fact.
Once again, I am sorry if you felt jumped on. I can see how you would have come to that conclusion.
Important not to mix up reporting of facts on the effects of so-called mind-expanding substances in articles even if written by Billy, to condoning or approving of their use.
Robyn
Rules & Netiquette
http://forum.figu.org/cgi-bin/us/discus.cgi?pg=instructions#rules
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Andyv24
Member
Post Number: 11
Registered: 08-2010
| | Posted on Thursday, July 14, 2011 - 07:21 am: |
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Great, I feel much better now, thanks guys.
I think I understand now.
Regards,
Andy |
Sitkaa
Member
Post Number: 507
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2011 - 04:16 am: |
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It seems to me the fastest path to self-evolution is found by aligning oneself with the natural way of things. It also seems to me that Earthly humanity is caught up in a swirl in the evolutionary process, spinning its wheels over trifles, and being unconcerned with the naturally evolutionary path. I am also guilty of such inanity. It could be that we need to explore such inanities in order to better develop depth of character, a depth of understanding in what we actually know.
For instance, much of the modern world has learned that slavery is just plain wrong, that everyone deserves to live with the basic right to some modicum of freedom in what they choose to do. However, we are still exploring just how much one person or group may control the actions of others, a (social) slavery in every way but name. Perhaps we need such social injustice in order to learn to truly great depths what is wrong, wrong, wrong.
Another example in terms of sexuality, where we are toying with how a society relates to unnatural deviancies. Homosexuality, prodigious sexuality, and even asexuality, these are more than just sexual explorations, they explorations which can shape a lifetime of social experiences. Even I know this, having both explored such deviance willingly and unwillingly had it thrust upon me. When will our expressions of sexuality fall back in line with the normal, the natural? Perhaps we must initially use some self-disciple, work to make it so.
Of course the most exemplary statement of who humans beings are can be found in our environmental dominance - to such an extent that we simply destroy everything in our reach for the oh-so-important little trifles... another unnatural act. Humans are supposed to be the itinerant gardeners, this is our most natural relationship with our external world. How can we get everyone to realize this?
When will we return to normal, find the natural way again? And how? People are naturally pulled to speeding up the evolutionary process as fast as possible - this is natural. When will we come to see that, once depth of character is sloughed, the natural way itself is the fastest way to evolve?
Every so often I feel homesick, I tell myself "I want to go home". It's kind of a moan that just comes out every so often. I have told myself that I make my own own home, wherever I go, whatever I do. I have told myself that home is where the heart is, and that home is a state of mind. To no avail. I long for walking the natural path again.
Fur leben.
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Edward
Member
Post Number: 2139
Registered: 05-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, July 24, 2011 - 05:36 am: |
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Hi Sitkaa...
Well, first of all, I would agree what Christian once said: it does NOT have
to be/manifest/happen/occur that way! As it is.
I fully agree on that. I even mentioned this to a friend yesterday.
We can Evolve, but we can Evolve much more 'subtle' with a Conscious
Conscience, instead of making a too Confused impression.
It is in the Nature of MAN, today, just to not listen when good old Wisdom
which is advised to him. What do you than do? Let such individual seek for
him/her-self, and Experience. We should take heed, that we are...dealing with
young Spirit-forms, and they do....what they pleased.
And what did Billy once say: Well, come on...let us all make MISTAKES!
In other words: to LEARN.
But, of course, Billy would still mean this in the same framework as how
Christian philosophized, it.
We have to keep in mind, that there are just still many young Spirit-forms and
they are still in the Exploration mode, so to speak. If you tell them
something, it would be at times, as 'talking to the wall', as they say.
Even, when it comes to Sexuality, I think Billy even mentioned that they just
'go for it', so to speak; in the next incarnation, they will KNOW...better!
Even, when related to any type of Sexual Experimentation, same gender, etc;
there will come a point, that it will - straighten out -, so to speak. This
would be just, THEIR way of experiencing it all, and LEARN.
Thus we have to have very much Patience, as you can notice. Each our
Evolutions are at our own pace. Thus, we DO....have to bring up the needed
Patience in order to live and coexist with each other. Let - Free Well -, take
her stance.
And of course, Our own - Self Discipline -, should be adapted, also. Thus,
some THINKING would be quite acceptable, in order to live a more Balanced and
Creational life style.
But as I mentioned: Free Will, is there for us to utilize, and we should
indeed utilize it very Wisely!
Well, you are ALWAYS HOME, Sitkaa. You carry the 'spark' of Creation within
you! If you can comprehend the above mentioned, I wrote...you sense the
purpose of still existing as a human being. We ALL...go through this! And we
should make the best of it all....
'YOU make life as hard as YOU....make it,' as the saying goes.
Edward. |
Andyv24
Member
Post Number: 12
Registered: 08-2010
| | Posted on Sunday, July 24, 2011 - 06:01 pm: |
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Sitkaa
Just so we don't give some readers the wrong impression...FIGU is not opposed to homosexuality in the way that various religous sects are. To list it as a "deviance" I think is rather misleading... From Billy's article "Homosexuality--What is it's Cause?": "Homosexuality, as a naturally occurring sexual variation that is against nature, could never be classified as unlawful on account of any of the natural-creational laws and directives. It is therefore considered naturally normal - although against nature, precisely because of the impossibility for procreation to occur. Certain genes and their characteristics determine the type of sexual variation, including homosexuality...This then implies that nothing can be abnormal in the sense of its naturalness, if nature permits, indeed creates it; whereby furthermore it follows that homosexuality is a natural manifestation whose anti-naturalness is simply based on its lack of any possibility for procreation."
Look at me moderators, for once propogating FIGU's true position on an issue! 
Trying to win some points back 
No one is keeping track even if we did keep track-Scott
Undoubtedly it has been discussed elsewhere, just didn't want the casual reader perceiving FIGU as homophobic...
Best wishes to all in these turbulent times...
Andy}
(Message edited by scott on July 24, 2011)
(Message edited by scott on December 26, 2012) |
Sitkaa
Member
Post Number: 509
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Monday, July 25, 2011 - 08:36 am: |
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Howdy Andy,
I generally don't like to be pulled into arguments over nonsense, but since this nonsense is so broadly and sensitively defended, I will present my own personal views of sexuality, and no doubt cause a great stink.
It sounds like you are a believer in homosexuality. I don't believe it exists. Personally I find it to simply be yet another form of human sexuality. I don't believe there is such a thing as an exclusively homosexual male or female human being. Instead, there are people who figure out what turns them on, and then stick with that belief. It is more a lifestyle choice than anything else.
Although I personally find homosexuality to be uncomfortably repulsive (and I think that this is a natural, genetically ingrained reaction), I am not singling out homosexuality to condemn it. Although I personally think the homosexuality 'movement' has done serious harm to the psyches of many, many impressionable young men, I am not singling out homosexuality to condemn it. Although I think homosexuality is actually more deviant than too much sexuality, or conversely not enough, I am not singling out homosexuality to condemn it. We all can explore these things if we so desire; who needs the stigma of a label?
Instead, what I am doing (and only for myself) is aiming to develop as balanced a perspective on human sexuality as possible. I am readjusting my personal compass of what constitutes 'natural', exploring the most comfortable way for me to live. I don't consider my views to be homophobic since I am neither afraid of self-proclaimed homosexuals, nor prejudicial towards them. However, I do think of them as unbalanced.
You really have no idea what I have been through, and I am not going to tell you. But I can say this: Not all homosexuals are misunderstood victims filled with love and light. In my experience, sum are just sexual predators
-----------
Sitkaa
This may not be the 'big stink' you were expecting, however, I have to suggest that your personal view on this topic, which is fine for you to hold, is tinged with a negativity based on your personal experience.
In order to make any discussion 'discussable', it is important to make sure one leaves ones prejudices outside the door, and discuss it from a more logical and rational perspective rather than an emotionally driven one.
Being that said, I would also just remind you that sexual predators come in all areas of society, with all types of sexuality as their base. But you already know this!
Deviance and variation from the norm, although having the same meaning, are used by those who disapprove of something, quite differently.
Deviant behaviour connotes abberation, whereas variation leads one to a less judgemental view, of being a variety of something else.
FIGU takes the variation view, rather than the deviant view and although that is not in line with your stance, please don't belittle others who do agree with FIGU's stance, and express it here.
Robyn
(Message edited by indi on July 25, 2011)
Fur leben.
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Eddieamartin
Member
Post Number: 259
Registered: 08-2010
| | Posted on Monday, July 25, 2011 - 10:20 am: |
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Hi Robyn,
would you expound a bit more on the following, thnx.
"Deviant behaviour connotes abberation, whereas variation leads one to a less judgemental view, of being a variety of something else."
This brings so much to light.
Salome,
Eddie
[7:-)
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Michael_horn
Member
Post Number: 428
Registered: 07-2009
| | Posted on Monday, July 25, 2011 - 10:49 am: |
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I think it has also been stated that there is often a genetic component to homosexuality, one that the Plejaren have seemingly removed either entirely or almost entirely.
So, clearly, it's not all a matter of choice if there is genetically conditioned homosexuality. That being said, there are some ways to change or overcome it to certain degrees, if I recall correctly. |
Jacob
Moderator
Post Number: 719
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Monday, July 25, 2011 - 01:40 pm: |
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That is correct, the Plejarens can correct this on a genetic level when the affected person wishes to do so, however this is not mandatory.
Indeed there are people who are genetically homosexual, which is not deviant at all.
Sexual deviants are amongst all sexual orientations unfortunately.
Fact remains that homosexuality is a sexual preference, regardless of a (by experience) colored opinion.
Another example is that countless women on this world are victim of some kind of abuse or even rape, and its understandable that these women carry a huge hatred against their attacker(s) and the male gender in general.
However many of those women are able to understand that its not the gender who attacks, its the person as a whole (the gender is just a part of the person).
Thinking in a rational way about the facts does help in a therapeutic way to deal with issues rising from those negative experience, of course this in conjunction with professional psychological help.
Salome,
Jacob
Saalome gam naan ben uurda, gan njjber asaala hesporoona!
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Sitkaa
Member
Post Number: 510
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Monday, July 25, 2011 - 03:34 pm: |
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Thanks again for your moderating influence, Robyn. I know I can get on a high horse sometimes, presumptively abreact over a highly evocative discussion such as sexual identity. My apologies.
If the concern is merely a question of perspective...
is homosexuality aberrant enough to be thought of as 'deviant', or just a 'variation' within a broad norm of behaviors for a human being?...
then I have no real need to weigh in here, for this is a matter of opinion (and perhaps abit of political correctness), as you rightly point out. Believe it or not, my preference in this discussion has not been to criticize the overly sensitive topic of justification for self-proclaimed homosexuals (although I certainly could give further discardable opinions on that), but rather something else entirely. There are some topics which cannot bear the slightest bit of critical attention nowadays without someone crying political incorrectness; in this regard homosexuality is like a religion. That said, what I was trying to say, before I said too much, was abit broader. Again, (isn't it ironic that) I apologize if I insult any sensitive male identity still defined by practicing homosexuality, but I do not include such behavior among my set of ideals. How much more daintily can I put it?
I was trying to address the broader topic of discerning the most natural, comfortable way to live that I reasonably can. As an extension of this, we have arrived at the forgone conclusion that we alter our genetic makeup with our lifestyle, with the way we interact with our environment, and with the thoughts we think, with our rationality and propensity towards situational emotionality. We have also learned that how we grow in this life affects how we will live in the next. I work towards being as balanced as possible, which, if a confession is due, I have not been. So again we come back to this: we work towards what we want to be. My interest lies in determining what is most natural, most comfortable, and consciously evolving my self along those lines.
Fur leben.
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Michael_horn
Member
Post Number: 429
Registered: 07-2009
| | Posted on Monday, July 25, 2011 - 05:21 pm: |
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I think it's pretty well answered in the following, which Andy quoted:
"Homosexuality, as a naturally occurring sexual variation that is against nature, could never be classified as unlawful on account of any of the natural-creational laws and directives. It is therefore considered naturally normal - although against nature, precisely because of the impossibility for procreation to occur. Certain genes and their characteristics determine the type of sexual variation, including homosexuality...This then implies that nothing can be abnormal in the sense of its naturalness, if nature permits, indeed creates it; whereby furthermore it follows that homosexuality is a natural manifestation whose anti-naturalness is simply based on its lack of any possibility for procreation." |
Ilovebilly
Member
Post Number: 21
Registered: 04-2011
| | Posted on Sunday, December 11, 2011 - 03:55 am: |
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G'day My Figu Mates
I think the photo of the plant/animal lets us know that evolution is not only from our experiences/learning of our lives but also cosmic, each planet or galaxy has evolutianry stages where many plants animals change in a short period of time caused by energy from The Creation, maybe we are entering a new one now.
On another topic but well worth a note, i am Reading a link Michael Horn posted, explains our politics atm
http://www.exopolitics.org/Study-Paper-6.htm
Page 1 is here
http://www.exopolitics.org/Study-Paper-1.htm
Salome
Peter
Every Cloud Has A Silver Lining
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Michael_horn
Member
Post Number: 485
Registered: 07-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, December 11, 2011 - 04:15 pm: |
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It's possible but I don't recall posting that link. |
Ilovebilly
Member
Post Number: 22
Registered: 04-2011
| | Posted on Sunday, December 11, 2011 - 06:51 pm: |
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Hi
Yes the link you gave is ok but the other Page 1 is not
i just started reading page 1 after i posted but the link you gave was ok?
Every Cloud Has A Silver Lining
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Michaelhelfert
Member
Post Number: 27
Registered: 09-2011
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 14, 2011 - 12:14 pm: |
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As noted elsewhere, we (the mainstream scientific community of Planet Earth) have discovered a planet in the critical habitable (liquid water) zone. We are calling this planet Kepler-22b.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kepler-22b
Since it is ~587 light years distant from us, this would not be Planet Akart. Has there been any mention of Planet Kepler-22b in the contact notes?
Life
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Ilovebilly
Member
Post Number: 76
Registered: 04-2011
| | Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2012 - 04:34 am: |
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The Beauty of The Creation
The Lorikeet is a bird and are very common where i live, they eat nectar from the bottle brush tree and i have 5 or 6 big trees out front. They have bright colours of the rainbow, travel in flocks and squabble in a loud fashion like people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rainbow_Lorikeet_(Trichoglossus_haematodus)_-Nelson_Bay_-NSW.jpg
Salome
Peter
Every Cloud Has A Silver Lining
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Ilovebilly
Member
Post Number: 78
Registered: 04-2011
| | Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2012 - 03:41 am: |
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Howdy Folks
Did i spell howdy correctly? eheh
Beam says Everything is explained in nature
so what is outside the universe/s ?
whats it look like to look from outside and then zoom into the spirit layers ?
I think it would be like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WwIKdyBN_s&feature=related
The material belts can be positive or negative like Dern and DAL universes
I also think the negative material belts would be stars are black and the sky is white, the opposite to what we have
Salome
Peter
Every Cloud Has A Silver Lining
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Michaelhelfert
Member
Post Number: 44
Registered: 09-2011
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2012 - 02:36 pm: |
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Since so many planets have been found recently by telescopes and what-not, scientists have begun to wonder if any of these planets can support life. Well, wonder no longer. Some recent studies have revealed that our planet is sufficiently unique that we can realistically expect to find no other like it.
Scientific American
Feb. 1, 2012
"Thanks to plants, we will Never find a planet like Earth"
www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=plants-created-earth-landscapel
(includes links to supporting studies)
Whew! That's a relief!
Life
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