| Author | Message | ||
    AJ |
Check out this 1910 Chicago Ledger newspaper cover; I found it on the cover of a newer book. Although this new book is not worth mentioning due to it's religious angle, the front cover brings to light a very remarkable piece of artwork done by newpaper artist William Molt in 1910.  The author points out the subliminal aspects of the newspaper art, but attributes it to demons, angels, Jesus, Mother Mary, Armageddon, Hitler, Oswald.... And the author of the book seems to suggest that this 1910 artist consciously put these images in his artwork to create fear of the day regarding the passing of Halley's Comet. However, I doubt if this 1910 newspaper man, meeting deadlines and so forth and not really a science fiction artist, would have had the time or the knowledge. The subliminal images, not to mention flying saucers in 1910, are truly amazing. We know it wasn't until the 1947 Kenneth Arnold sighting that the idea of flying saucers even reached the public. So how did this guy get the discs right in 1910? He even got the shimmering rays on the hull right that we see in Meier's film. Also, notice the Earth ship; it looks very similar to an Apollo capsule. It even has the eagle head logo.  Instead of the "end of the world," better give up the New Age and find jesus, crap that the new book author suggests, I think the subliminal things in the art could be interpreted as different races of ETs looking down on Earth with man looking into the sky for answers.  Notice the humanoid figure in this blown up section...almost like extending his hand with the power of the rays off the sun.  Also, here is another figure I have spotted next to the sand dollar things...kinda looks like Speilberg's little alien fellow.  Could this artist have received telepathic impulses from extraterrestrials when he was creating this work? We learn from Meier that the Pleiadians have admitted to sending these impulses to Earth artists and scientists. And could Mr. Molt have subconsciously put these images into his work; maybe from some sort of contact? | ||
JAY |
HI AJ, I agree with the Images and the Impulses given to some humans on earth is totally on point with the Plejaran information. The Plejarans did tell Meier that they were giving impulses about certain things without them even knowing it was happening, so credit is given here even back then. We also need to keep in mind that Meier was first contacted at the age of 7 (oops or was it 5 years of age), so it is likely that they tried in earlier times in 1910 to keep slight Pulsive telepathic contact to awaken the subconcious to these ideas in the Artist paintings. thanks AJ for bringing up this finding  ... please correct me on Meier's age if I am wrong. BE WELL | ||
AJ |
Hello Jay, I wonder if William Molt actually saw flying saucers? You know, had a real sighting in addition to perhaps being exposed to ET impulses? Maybe he saw a large formation of discs? Why would he put a flock of these flying saucers in his space adventure art when he only has one ship from earth? After all, this was a story about the comet coming to earth. And really, hardly anybody back then even had the notion about extraterrestrial life, let alone a lot of it? Maybe even one of these flying discs got right in Molt's face and he got a good look at it? What if Mr. Molt is the earthman looking up in the drawing and he is trying to talk about his sighting through this work? Either that, or this could be Billy Meier...his long beard stretching out as the water across a volatile Aquarius age. I guess it's all how you interpret the thing. Notice the crescent moon above this earthman's head... Maybe Molt thought people would think he was crazy about talking about these strange disc things? Back then, an understanding of the principles of technology and it's rapid evolution was just beginning for the man in the Streets of 1910. And only a few people of the day had even envisioned the rocket, let alone advanced space designs. These disc things sure didn't look like anything out of Jules Verne or H.G. Wells. To the people buying the newspaper back then, the saucers in the illustration looked like shields from god protecting the earth from the dangerous comet. So disc shaped metallic things in the 1910 sky? What gives? It must surly be the devil. Or an act of god. Perhaps ETs supplemented Molt's likely sighting with telepathic impulses to help him sort out what happened to him? As a result, perhaps this artwork was a first step in the 20th century to reintroduce man to life on other worlds by ETs? Maybe this is a concrete example of ET intervention on Earth; and a blue print for how ET impulse telepathy manifests itself on Earth? Because I don't think this is something new, it probably has been happening on Earth for a long, long time -- not to mention this higher race to lower race good will relationship that must exist all over the universe. 1910, a time when the public looked up to the sky and started to seriously think about space as a result of the comet, with an opportunity through a newspaper circulation of 750,000 copies per week to reach a lot of people, perhaps Molt being a catchy newspaper artist, with a talent at reaching the subconscious with his partially conscious intentions at creating subliminal imbeds in his artwork, made him a perfect candidate for a contactee? Best, AJ | ||
Norm |
I wish the Plejarens would have listed which alleged contactees are Thule, Giza, German, MIB etc. Instead of just saying they are all hoax's. Even if its a gov't earth human contacting someone say they are from Jupiter, I would rather the Plejarens say that instead of them just saying its a hoax. | ||
E. Visser |
The Adamski Case-The Facts -First well known contactee case -Adamski founded the 'Royal Order Of Tibet' in 1934 where he taught 'Universal Laws' and 'Universal Progressive Christianity' -Verbatim reports of his conversations with ET's in his books -Photographs taken of different ships,some in series -12 witnesses present during the taking of the photographs -Photo analysis by experts -Secondary photographers of the same craft Stephen Darbishire,Coniston,Lancashire UK, February 1954 Hugo Vega,Lima Peru,October 1973 Howard Menger -Photographic plate with hieroglyphics given by ET's -8mm film footage of the same craft © Madeline Rodeffer,Adamski and Rodeffer aswell as 3 other witnesses present during the filming -Film analysis by experts -6 witnesses present during Adamski's contact with an ET person -Affidavits of witnesses -Metal sample -Schematics made by Adamski of ships interior -4 types of ships described (scoutship,large scoutship,carrier craft,remote controlled devices) -3 trips aboard spacecrafts -Advanced technologies described -Apparent link-up with the Howard Menger case Book sources; -Timothy Good-Alien Base -Great Mysteries-Flying Saucers George Adamski Foundation http://www.gafintl-adamski.com/html/GAFpg1.htm As you can see the Adamski case has many similarities with the Meier case.It boggles the mind why it is labelled as a fraud in the contact notes. Regards, TerraX. | ||
E. Visser |
Hi all. I think everyone will agree that Adamski is the first well known contactee.There might have been other persons but none reached the public in the fashion Adamski did. When you are the first person to come out with stories of contact with extraterrestials and photograph there ships.How can you be a fraud? There is no previous scenario to copy.The Adamski case has that luxury which cannot be said of the cases that followed. Let's say for arguments sake that Adamski was a fraud.How did he manage to equal so many elements (as facts listed above) with the Meier case? I can only conclude that Adamski was genuine. TerraX | ||
Norm |
Maybe Adamski was an agent of the "secret government", and he was fed information retrieved from crashed UFOs. Some rumors claim that the U.S. secret government is in contact with extraterrestrial's. All they would have to do is let him film their craft in front of other witnesses who don't know the real story, and the whole thing was staged for them. | ||
E. Visser |
That's a big maybe Norm.Most Americans after the second world war like Adamski were patriotic. Adamski did notify the FBI because he felt it was his duty to do so.There are de-classified documents which substanciate that. The Roswell crash was in 1947,Adamski's case started in 1951.Very short time period to do an extensive and elaborate operation of any kind and the secret government (MJ12 perhaps) would first have started with information gathering and research.It's unlikely they would have been able to do what you say in that short timeperiod. TerraX. | ||
Edward |
Hi Terra-V... Hope you are doing fine... Well, Kenneth Arnold's encounter was in 1947...and Adamski's were in the mid 50ties. And Kenneth did get much publications world wide and as Billy has made known to us all.. Kennth Arnold is Authantic! And what I've read...Kenneth had more then One encounter. But stayed very simple about his case. Not the man for all the publisity. Which I can understand of him. I would say that Adamski worked with a Well Organized Organization... to give such a Great show. I...myself...would just Stick too Billy...as being Authantic. He has given me Soooo....MUCH Information...that No one else could give me. Really! This I mean. There were things I knew...but No one came up with the right answers but Billy! As I knew...for very very long...that the Holy Writings were Made 'UnHoly'..by Forces around us all. NO ONE...ever talked about this! But ONLY Billy! Thats when I Knew! HE IS THE MAN....so to speak. And other things I knew...I found in his writings. Only he told in more details. For me...it is just a Verification to many things I knew. I just knew..there has to be SomeOne out there...with Truth! And Billy Still gives us all Ongoing Information. Whitley Strieber books sound ok...but we must Not foreget..he is/has Always been a Well Know writer...and had made some best selling Films! That's why his books are good."He is just a good writer!" And he is Not Authantic as we know from Billy. Strieber just gives the Public a Good Book to read. And if they believe it...well... it's just good for him.($$$$) And just like others...like him. Take Care...Be Healthy. Edward... | ||
E. Visser |
Hi Edward. Which Well Organized Organisation would that be? Thx, TerraX. | ||
Edward |
Hi Terra-V... Well, ofcourse I do Not know which Organization! 'It's Secret...'... Well, from other books I've read...in those early days...there was a 'Cold War' going on. And they(world countries) even utilzed the UFO-manifestations as a Weapon...if you will.. to gain some Power over the mass. So the other country came with this Story and the other came with that one...etc. Just trying to Manipulate one and other...and the mass. Cos the world governments Did Know...the Extraterresterial beings existed. So ofcourse...the Public fell for it too. With out a doubt. So, what I understood is...it was Not only coming from america...but from all countries. This time it was not a war with weapons...but with UFOs! And we must not foreget the 'Debunkers'...which play a roll in it also. The True encounters by this war...is put into ridicule and mocked with. So that makes it even difficult for True contactees to manifest with their experiences. So I have learned to take every contactee with mush caution..and find out as much as I could concerning them. The One's that 'Fall through the basket'...you will sooner or later notice. Take Care....Be Healthy. Edward... | ||
E. Visser |
Hi Edward. You don't know which organisation was responsible for the Adamski case but you do listed as an argument. Ufo's have indeed been used to cover up other covert militairy actions.A Sovjet sattelite that fell to Earth and landed in the US would be a good example.However this method was implemented when its usage was fully understood.This was after the mass populess got used to the idea of ufo's and flying saucers in the media. On the subject of finding 'dirt' on a contactee. Yes it is a favourable method of a debunker.Dirt can be found on practically every contactee,Mr Meier is no exception. I hope you noticed I didn't resort to such methods. I just Question the Knowledge. TerraX. | ||
James the truthseeker |
Greetings TerraX, I'm surprised you're still bothered with the Adamski case as being fruad, as the secret group Edward was probably refering to, was perhaps the German Tule or Vril society. Also you seem to be forgetting the fact that The US government brought many x-nazi scientest in after the 2nd world war not to mention the possibilities as to where the the US secret government got their own UFOs! and that German scientist were involved with Tibetans, where they got the term "Vril" from in the first place. Of course Adamski's case is going to compare somewhat with Billy's if Madeline Rodeffer was the real contactee of the Adamski case to begin with. To back up what Billy had to say, you may want to check this site out which I just found: http://www.ufo.se/english/articles/adamski.html Salome, James TT. | ||
E. Visser |
Greetings James. Impressive site and Marc Hallet is clearly a professional who manages to debunk just about everything on Adamski.Better not let this guy take the Meier case under the microscoop.I think he would reach the same conclusions. Marc Hallet even manages to discredit Adamski's scientific prophetic proof namely the firefly phenomanon but here you can see how he works. Adamski allegedly reported seeing 'fireflys', luminous particles floating in space while on one of his spacetrips. Marc Hallet claims that Adamski attributed it to a natural phenomanon which I couldn't confirm. The Firefly phenomanon was later in time confirmed by astronauts John Glenn,Komarov and Feoktistov.Marc Hallet calls Adamski a liar because the particles come from the capsules and are not a natural phenomanon.Later on this was also reported at space shuttle flights. Marc Hallet seems to forget that you have to be in space to report the firefly phenomanon to begin with.Another point of interest.John Glenn reported that phenomanon and many people at Nasa headquarters were terrified thinking the heat shield was disintegrating.After landing and inspecting the capsule they found nothing wrong with it. Marc Hallet did overlook another bit off scientific prophetic information which I'm not gonna list here.The Rodeffer film is labelled fraudulous on the point of double exposure. To finalise this I think all of us see what we want to see.This luxury has been implemented with the 'Proof but no proof' method by the et's. I hope Marc Hallet never teams up with a person say for example Karl Korff. Thx, TerraX. | ||
James the truthseeker |
Greetings TerraX, If I recall, Madeline Rodeffer herself realized her own UFO film was altered when she got the film back. Question is, did Adamski alter it? Marc Hallet may not be totally correct in his debunking, but he sure did make some good observations. Interesting he didn't make the observation of the faces in the irregular sized portal windows of the ship with the faces in them. Salome, James TT. | ||
James the truthseeker |
Correction: Mark Hallet didn't make the observation of the photo by Adamski taken of the faces in the irregular sized portal windows of the ship. Photo taken from the other ship. | ||
E. Visser |
Hi James. Just a little sidetrack here but what do you think what Marc Hallet would conclude if he was to analyse and examine the Meier case with the same scrutiny as he has done with the Adamski case? Thx, TerraX. | ||
E. Visser |
Hi again James. You said something interesting. "If I recall,Madeline Rodeffer herself realised her own UFO film was altered when she got the film back. Question is, did Adamski alter it?" Marc Hallet claims to have received the original film which he was able to examine.He even commented on that calling the people who gave it to him foolish. Question could also be, did Hallet alter it? Funny isn't it, how one can swing conclusions according to there own views. Regards, TerraX. | ||
Norm |
Kal Korff, Is nothing but a liar. If Marc teams up with him it would be a major mistake! | ||
James the truthseeker |
Greetings TerraX, Yes one can swing to conclusions according to their own views!, but you seem to be forgetting the fact that what Mark Hallet has to say is for all individuals to examine independently for themselves, the evidence. In the Meier case, I have personally found errors in Kal Korffs Book of which their exists information to the contrary because I examined what he had to say as an individual and of course, Kal Korff himself. Perhaps you may want to do this with Mark Hallet and examin all his presented evidence. If you can find evidence to the contrary of everything presented fraud in the Adamski case, then perhaps you're really on to something that Billy and the Plejarans are not, and please let us know! Also if I recall, Madeline Rodeffer received her UFO film back long before Mark Hallet himself examined it. If Adamski's ETs are for real, then perhaps they are aware of the Plejarans and Billy and thus should now oppenly present themselves at the FIGU center, to Billy himself, to clear up this confusion. Perhaps you know some people who claim they are in contact with Venusians and thus you should present this to them. If the Venusions are X-Germans then perhaps they can even speak to Billy in his own lanquage! Perhaps you yourself are a "Venusian or an X-German". After all, you do call yourself "TerraX" It comes to no surprise that claimed Venusian "Omnec Onec", is and speaks GERMAN! To moderator: If this message doubled itself to "Q" then do not post the other message! Salome, James TT. | ||
E. Visser |
Hi all. I started out with the Adamski case again for a reason and expected the same treatment it got previously. I even had a few bits of accurate scientic prophetic information ready to meet Michael Horn's criteria but to no evail offcourse.The bringing in of Mark Hallet, clearly a professional in debunking, says it all. When I first got here I rather naively thought the people here would be united to find more truths in the ufo and contactee phenomanon.In these phenomanons we have people that accept it and research it and people who don't accept and some of those go through great lenghts to disprove all the evidence brought forward over the years.Basicly we have 2 opposites,namely supporters and debunkers. What I reluctantly realised after a while and much to my amazement is that you can be both at the same time.Most of you know the names of debunkers that work very hard on bringing down the Meier case.Meier supporters will offcourse defend against these verbal attacks. Here is my point.Some of you as Meier supporters will use debunking methods in order to validate or strenghten what was said in the contact notes by Billy and the Plejarans. The Adamski case which I pulled out of the bin again would a good example.This case,like all cases has negative elements which gives the reader or investigator the room to make up there mind anyway they choose.There are also positive elements to the Adamski case not to mention it's follow up with Howard Menger and unnamed people around the globe that reported crafts and similar looking ufonauts.It literally runs in the dozens and dozens of witnesses.Yet these facts meet high resistance on this board primarely I think because Semjase and the Plejarans claimed otherwise. I think it was Billy Meier himself that proposed an excellent way of thinking.Think positive neutral. Regards, TerraX. | ||
Mark Campbell |
Hi Terrax ; You are very persistent with the Adamski angle .I appreciate and admire people who put such effort into their interests , but I have this to say : Billy has stated that Adamski had written a confession to his fraud on his deathbed . Now , I don't have a reference to it , because I don't spend all my time with Adamski issues .You posted a question to Billy in the Q & A section , and I hope that his eventual answer will satisfy you in some way . This website , as well as the FIGU itself is devoted in reality , to the Spiritual teachings and the spiritual evolution of Earth people . To endlessly argue the point is a distraction to the many people who regularly visit the forum , which is purposeful tool, in it's existence . It is here to educate , and to reflect on Billy Meier's and the Plejaren's information . The are many UFO sites that are in need of the kind of focus that you have given here promoting Adamski . Adamski's website itself , for one . You mentioned neutral positivity as if it were a way of thinking that would cause everyone to consider everything equally , and not reject anything . Such an assumption is faulty , because there is not enough time to ponder every single sideroad of information . Neutral positive thinking is a mindset that many of us are learning about , the details of which are available to those who search for it . You can post about Adamski here if you like , but I think by now , after your efficient and detailed information has been shared , that the only conclusion that anyone could come to is "maybe it is - or not". It's a moot point , because it's all been done .Adamski's message ( if it can be called that) was brief ,limited ,and lacked 'follow through'. What I think would be terrific , Terrax , is that you would apply that kind of effort to the discussions which further everone's understanding of this Mission , teaching , or even the verity of the Plejaren ships .Maybe there are other Real contact cases that you could shed some light on that Billy Meier has not already exposed . This is , after all the FIGU forum ,and not "generalUFO.com". The reason that I decided to communicate this to you , is because you seemed to reflect some pain that everyone was not convinced or interested in Adamski issues . The real opportunity , evidently , is in the Meier material , information , and teaching .That is what you will have audience with , and I would look forward to your posts , if that's what you come to this forum to discuss .I hope you will persue learning what the FIGU has to offer in a deeper sense . Best Regards , Mark | ||
Norm |
TerraX, To be honest I don't see all the fuss with Adamski, his information never wow'd me. Even if he is true the information he gave is nowhere near what Billy has. In my opinion, his case if it's real great, if he's not so what. It really doesn't matter too me. | ||
E. Visser |
Hi Mark. Moderator: Hi TerraX, you had "Marc" above so I changed it to "Mark". At least I think you are referring to Mark Campbell's post further above... Thank you for your post.I think your request to drop the Adamski debate is a reasonable one since it is unlikely we will see eye to eye on it in the nearby future.Afterall you're correct that this discussionboard is primarely for Figu related material. My concern isn't really that Adamski got a bad review in the contact notes.My concern is that many contactee's who predated Mr Meier got a bad review. I disagree to an extend to your explanation of positive neutral thinking but your argument of it still being a learning process is sound. To consider factors from positive to negative would give a complete picture. In the future I will focus more on the Figu material but I hope you realise that I will do so with the same 'pair of glasses' I've been wearing all along since I don't have any others. Thx, TerraX. P.S. Norm,great post,100% honest. | ||
Lars |
Hi E.V. and everyone else, Here is one fact I think many overlook which tends to prove the veracity of Adamski's statement about life on the Moon in his book, "Inside the Spaceships" During the 1950's Adamski's Et.s allegedly took him to the Moon and showed him that contrary to opinion the Moon has an atmosphere, clouds and vegetation. Now the facts for this showed up in some previously unreleased Nasa-Apollo Moon photos which got discovered and realeased by a civilian pilot and scientist "Fred Steckling" in 1981. he obtained the Apollo Moon photos from, "Nasa's Science data center" in these photos which he critiques in his book, one can see the evidence that the Moon does indeed have an atmosphere with clouds, as well as green vegetation that changes color with the seasons, also it shows evidence of manmade lakes or waterbodies in several pictures.and one can see that the Moon's soil's true color at least on it's dark side near the equator, is a rich beige brown color. the photos are astonishing to say the least. This evidence in the Moon photos backs up what Adamski wrote about the Moon in his book. At this point one must ask, If Adamski's contacts were fakes, then how did he come up with the Moon data which subsequently has now been proven to be real by Apollo photos??? Just something to ponder..... Regards, Lars | ||
Norm |
Lars, I'll answer that. First I would like to say I have to agree with Hoagland that there was something on the moon like an Ancient Base etc. but now nothing is there. The evidence presently on a current living Moon in my opinion is just not there. I've read all those Moon conspiracy books, but I just don't buy it. Any whats to stop the Secret Government with their advanced flying tech from telling Adamski what they discovered in their secret flights to the moon and maybe Mars. | ||
James the truthseeker |
Greetings Lars, Don't forget now that Adamski whould have gotten that moon information the same way he got the detailed descriptions of the UFOs or spaceships. He got this information from "Madeline Rodeffer" who supposedly was the real contactee behind much of Adamski's story. Apparently there's an ET base on the Blind side of the moon with dome structures etc, which has being confirmed by other UFO contactees including the X-Germans. One person who really brought this to peoples attention was retired Military person "Robert O. Dean", and then later many others. It is apparent to me that when we have a real contactee, etc, then you'll have many more copy cats who will read books and then publish more books of their own and so forth. This is something that has gotten much out of hand in the new age today. Salome, James TT. | ||
Lars |
Hi Norm, You may be right about the secret government and Nazi Ufos etc. But I think those Apollo photos showing what they do speak for themselves regardless of what any Nazi's or ET.s may have told Adamski. The photos are evidence themselves that on the Moon's darkside near the equator the moon's soil grows green vegetation and foliage which turns brown red with the seasons. Also the clouds, and lakes and riverbeds are unmistakable in these photos. Lars | ||
Lars |
Hi James, You may be right about that, i have heard about the facts that the Nazi's have a secret space program with a base upon the Moon. But the Apollo photos I mentioned, discovered and pointed out by Fred Steckling are an entirely seperate affair and speak for themselves! The point here is that we have obviously been lied to by Nasa and the full evidence discovered by the Apollo missions has been kept back. Lars | ||
E. Visser |
Hi all. I really went like hmmm when I read your posts.I basicly stated that I would stop making posts about Adamski and some of you pick it up again. Quite funny actually. Lars,check out the part where Adamski gets an explanation of a device which is now a common household name.Think kitchen. I'm fairly sure no such device existed in 1953. Regards, TerraX. | ||
Norm |
Don't worry this is my last post on Adamski! I had to reply to Lars Moon statement. | ||
James the truthseeker |
Greetings Lars and Terra X, When I think "kitchen", the only thing I can think of is somthing that looked like an Adamski type space ship called a "chicken brooder". Moderator: Please delete the second post of this post if you find it in the "Queue". I've now found the cause of this which has to do with a typing error mix up in the username as I have other usernames at other forums. Unforunitly I can't edit these errors! Thanks, James TT. | ||
Vaclav Urban |
Hi all! What do you mean about "THE RED PLANET"? It was discovered on 15.09.2002. See http://www.thehotsheets.com/solarsystem/messages/1750.shtml. Is it the Destroyer? Vaclav | ||
E. Visser |
Hi all. I would like to comment on the X-Germans or renegade Nazi's that supposed to have 'saucer technology' and are frequently discussed. In the 254th contact note this topic is discussed and it states that approximately 2000 Germans fled to South America at the end of the second world war.I think it's foolish to assume that these men would have staged a contactee scenario reaching the public so soon after the war.There main problem would have been to avoid Allied persecution.This would mean keeping a low profile and not drawing any attention.In my opinion these Germans are not responsible for the contactee phenomanon which started in the 1950's and 60's. The 254th contact notes also states that this group is basicly dying out with only 334 men left and the youngest being 78 years old. Regards, TerraX. | ||
James the truthseeker |
Greetings TerraX, As you already know that the X-Germans in South America are in their old age and are dying out. Then perhaps this is why we are not hearing of contacts with Venusians anymore sense the early 1960s. Whats interesting about that however is that in contact 254, the Plejarans failed to mention the other group of X-Germans that remained hidden inside a mountian in Germany. I do not remember at the moment which earlier contact this other info was found in. Salome, James TT | ||
E. Visser |
Hi James. What's also interesting in the 254th contact note is that the Plejarans admit that they gave 2 German scientists information through telepathic impulsis.Later they corrected there mistake. From my own point of view I'm not too worried why the Venusians haven't been seen much since the late sixties.I'm sure they have their reasons. Regards, TerraX. | ||
Norm |
TerraX, I have still have a copy of a book W.Stevens published in 1990's called UFO from Venus I Came. | ||
Lars |
Hi guys, About Venusian contacts not happening since the 1960's. This may be incorrect data... Because in 1980 in Italy, "Giorgio Dibitonto" claimed to have meetings with Adamski's ET's as well as with the Angel Raphael; and he wrote an elaborate book of his contacts detailing incredible technical and spiritual dialog with the Et's The book is titled, UFO contact from Angels in Starships Published by Wendelle Stevens: Inasmuch as I like to trust everything the Plejarens have stated, In the face of some of this info purporting to come from Venusian Ets I find it difficult to dismiss this material entirely. The Venusians, at least the later contacts from Venus claim that the Venusians live in parallel dimensions of the planet Venus, as well as in the astral side of the planet. If there is no life on the Pleiades stars in it's regular time? and only life in a paralel dimesion of the Pleiades, then why not also could the same situation exist with the Venusians? this is what two venusians are claiming, Omnec Onec and the Venusians of Dibitonto's contacts. I have read Omnec Onec's book and find the information she has revealed is very credible and extremely advanced spiritually. I don't think a mere earth girl could whip up the kind of eloquence she delivers. It really is not wise to judge something before investigating it thoroughly. until one investigates a matter they really don't know anything! and they are really only are leaning on somebody else's labors and opinions which may or may have not investigated a matter. Salome, Lars | ||
E. Visser |
Thx for the information guys. TerraX. | ||
James the truthseeker |
Greetings Lars, Norm and TerraX, Not so fast guys. As I to have both books mentioned by Omnec Onec & Giorgio Dibitonto, lets not forget what I mentioned earlier about the Plajarans also once informing us of an X-German base being secretly still in use in a mountian in Germany despite the fact that the other X-Germans in Brazil are dying out from old age. These other X-Germans could be still procreateing their own. Like I said before, Omnec Onec is German as you'll see on her website: http://www.omnecfromvenus.de and Italy was no exception as scientests from here where known to team up with scientist in Germany before world war 2, such as Marconi himself, as mentioned by "David Hatcher Childress". Lets not forget about the X-Germans who may have fled to the South pole. It is interesting to note that "Giorgio Dibitonto's" UFO experiences did happen at the same time as "Stan Johnson" http://www.mcsi.net/alahoy/johnson.htm who did mention his own in person contacts with "Ashtar Sharan" from 1980-1983. At this time, Ashtar supposedly has contacts also in Itily. I also happen to know about a person in Germany by the name of "Manni Escandon" who could very will be in close connection with these X-Germans who apparently went to extremes to undermine Billy's mission. Norm, you probably knows of this guy as he used to live in Florida. Salome James the truthseeker | ||
E. Visser |
Hi all. Sorry James but the Venusians described by Adamski as well as Menger and others just don't sound like the X-Germans.Which reason would the secret German organisation have to go public? There's no need in my opinion.Found a cool site about the Venusians. http://www.geocities.com/orgonegal/venusians.html Regards, TerraX. | ||
Lars |
Hi James, You mentioned that you had Omnec's book, well what do you think of that book? In your reading did you realize that she points people to the oldest simplest and purest spiritual instruction and exercises on earth? She points people to, "THE WAY OF THE ETERNAL" OR THE SHARIYAT KI SUGMAD. which are housed in two ancient Tibetan monasteries,, Agam Desh and Katsapuri. The Way of the Eternal or the spiritual exercises of Eckankar are without any parallel on Earth, they are the purest, simplest, and fastest instruction to spiritually evolve by Soul Travel.and by contemplation upon the Light and Sound current. I have practiced these spiritual exercises of ECK and have had been out of my body numerous times and see for myself exactly what exists in the fine material worlds, so I don't have to rely on just somebody elses opinions. There is no comparasion at all for the Way of the Eternal in any Universe, because it is the most ancient and purest teaching because it derives from the Light and Sound current of Creation itself. nothing can rival it because it is the Supreme, it is the Law of life, it is an exact science of cause and effect. everyother religion or way is just a condensation or offspring from this Instruction fitted to the different levels of evolution mankind is in. Lars | ||
James the truthseeker |
Greetings Lars, I think Omnec Onec is very involved with ECK which Paul Twitchell himself may have obtained "The Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad" from his teacher "Kirpal Singh" and the "Santmat" religion. http://www.santmat.ca Omnec Onec blieved or copied what "Sri Darwin Gross" of ECK had to say and wrote it down in her book, etc. Sri Darwin Gross was later debunked by ECK itself, thus proving the writings of Omnec Onec as fraud. As the Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad may have some validity in itself, it may have originated then from Santmat rather then Tibet as Sri Darwin Gross may try and have us believe. There is no record as of yet from the Tibetans to know if Agam Des and Katsapuri actually exist. Greetings TerraX, The web link you posted seems to be off-line at the moment. It is to my understanding that the X-German Tule society in Germany wont go public because they are a secret society. As Venusians however, Ptaah did give a full explanation in the 32 contact. In the future, I hope to have a full report write-up about all of this ready so we don't have to keep going in circles with this here. Salome, James the truthseeker | ||
Lars |
Hi James, I will have to disagree with you about the un-validity of Omnec's story and book, there's no way she copied or embellished what Sri Darwin Gross said. All of her story and writings about life on the astral plane of Venus are totally unique and from her own memory and property. As far as the validity of the two monastaries, "Agam Desh" and Katsapuri"? I recall Paul Twitchell gave a genral directions map to find the two monastaries there in Tibet, and if one would follow those directions and with help from the locals, Im sure one might find them. But to obtain admittance in the Monastaries is another story, because they screen every seeker severely and if your intention is not harmonious enough. they will not let you in or to stay. Paul Twitchell transcribed the "Shariyat Ki Sugmad" by inspiration from the abotts of the two monastaries in Tibet. The translation of these had nothing to do with Kirpal Singh. If one compares the teachings of Eck with those of Sant Mat, one can easily recognize that there are many novel terms derived from and used exclusively by ECK and Paul Twitchell. Such as the names, "Sugmad and HU and many others. Also Paul's contacts with Rebazar Tarz are unique and no fabrication, several of Pauls books are verbatim dialog and direct experiences he had with that Master. There is no mention at all of the Master Rebazar Tarz in the Sant Mat group, nor is there mention of the two Eck monastaries in tibet either. Another thing which demonstrates the validity of Rebazar Tarz as a real living Master is the absolutely brilliant eloquence and details given by him in his discourses to Paul. Paul could never have made up this eloquence, it is too alien, and far more brilliant than anything he could devise. Paul was descibed as a genuinely honest seeker of truth, and one who has such honesty and dedication as Paul had often comes to recieve supernatural experiences and thus has no need to lie and hoax contacts. From this one may conclude that Paul's testimony and experiences with these masters are genuinely true, and no hoax, as many of the credulous naive suppose. Finally the real proof of Paul's teachings are in the practice of the spiritual exercises he outlined, I have had more incredible and meaningful spiritual evolution and genuine Out of body travels under the Eck practices than with any other belief system combined and the reason why is obvious... because Eckankar really is the oldest and purest of the direct spiritual teachings back to the Absolute. every other teaching or religion whether on earth or from other stars is just a breakoff from the pure Eck teaching and is accomodated to the diffrent mental and racial characteristics of men. Salome, Lars | ||
James the truthseeker |
Greetings Lars, As much as you may disagree with me which is OK, your last post still brings up more questions about ECK itself. I'm sure Paul Twitchell, Omnec Onec and even yourself have had real "out of body experiences"(OBEs) as many people can experience these things and do, myself included! But I'm not to quick to say that any set of teaching is the end all to everything because there is always something far more from another teaching that we can learn from such as what Billy himself has had to say. Concerning OBEs, which ECK focuses alot on, It is my understanding that the "Astral Plain" is "liquid emotion" which will reflect within itself what people want to see and believe, just like in a lucid dream when nothing around you is constant depending on the strength and focus of your thoughts. I have talked to people from ECK who have gone to Venus and seen Ritz etc, just like Omnec did as well as Agam Des and Katsapuri, because they expected those places to be there. My ECK friends see Agam Des and Katsapuri as only on the astral while Omnec claims to see it as physical. Tibetans that I've asked say that there are no monistaries of the sort that they know of, and if Paul T. knows the where-abouts of such places in the physical then that may prove things just a little differently for everyone here. I'm sure ECK has done some wonderful things for you such as to "reflect" your innermost thoughts on the Astral plain, but the Mahatma Dzogchen Tibetans I'm familiar with actually say to stay out of the Astral plain because people only get lost in the maze of illusion which slows down spiritual realization and growth. Billy himself actually confirms this. Eventhough Paul Twitchell and perhaps Omnec herself may have told us real experiences they've had, it could be that they themselvse have become lost in the plain of illusion with the many upon many more thought-forms of the Astral plain, when Paul eventually had gone his own way with ECK from Kirpal Singh. Unless Rebazar Tarz was actually physical in ECK when Paul T. knew him, Rebazar Tarz would then perhaps be one of many living thought forms in the astral plain of illusion along wtih Agam Desh" and Katsapuri as thought form places. Then again, I'm not Paul Twitchell and therefor I can't say what this guy really experienced. Perhaps Billy will know. Peace, James the truthseeker | ||
Lars |
Hello James, You bring up some fine insights, I will agree with you that," there is always something more we can learn from another teaching." When I spoke of Eck as the end-all of all teachings or the purest and oldest of teachings I meant that in a Universal way, because actually everything that exists, creation, matter, ideas, concepts,logic, knowledge,etc. are only derivatives from the ECK or the primal substance of the Light and Sound which is the ALL in all! Thus Eckankar is not just another earth religious belief, but an actual science that can be demonstratably proven by engaging in the spiritual exercises. I would also agree with you about the astral plane as the plane of illusion, but as far as Omnec's life there in the Venus astral plane, she described it as a paradise full of harmony, love and light, life on an astral plane all depends on the beings who inhabit a certain section, there are many varying sections within the astral plane some are paradises and are postitive, while others may be in-between, and still others are negative, full of evil, sufferring and hell conditions with fire and smoke billowing from them. It is quite right that people find what they expect and imagine on the astral, But also people attract what they deserve and earn in that sphere. and one cannot just skip grades and think they can visit and inhabit a higher plane without first earning a right to enter there by the appropiate consciousness and recognition required in that higher sphere. There can be no grade skipping at all, Semjase made this very clear in her discourses with Billy. Finally you mentioned that, "Im not Paul T and therefoe cannot say what this guy really experienced. perhaps Billy will know? Why should you trust or rely on Billy's opinion about Paul Twitchell or the Plejarens? just because they state something about someone doesn't mean it's 100% accurate. We have to stop relying on what other people think or say, and find the knowledge ourself through OOB experiences by working with the highest Light and Sound of the Spirit, when we work with the Sprirt of truth it will lead us to and confirm the truth to us about any inquiry we may have. Why rely on someone elses opinion which may or may not be true? This is what starts cults and religions. when people look to another for answers and abdicate personal inquiry and research. Ultimately only the Light of Spirit and the Akasa films know what really transpires, and to go to them firsthand and obtain the required data is our privelege. Salome, Lars | ||
James the truthseeker |
Greetings Lars, As I would agree with you that everyone should experience and know the truth within themselves and not just take peoples word for it in relation to becoming cult followers, the same could be said about ECK as much as it can be said about FIGU. Billy's and the Plejarans comments about Paul Twitchell himself would prove more reliable to me then most peoples opinions as they have being proven to be at a much higher spiritual evolution then perhaps any of us here which gives Billy and the plejarans a much greater perspective of the truth, not to mention they also have the technology to do it and look into peoples souls along with their past. From my perspective, I always use Billy and the Plejarans as a refrence point to navigate my own search for the truth. Sure they may not be 100% accurate but their perspectives have never falled me in navigating myself into my own discoveries of what truth really is and that is close enough for me. We may also work with the highest light and sound of the spirit as you say but as a cosmic law of creation, every human being is limited to their own place in spiritual evolution. Salome, James the truthseeker | ||
E. Visser |
Hi James. It would be interesting to know exactly what Ptaah says in the 32th contact note.Take your time with it,I would suspect it's a lenghty explanation. Thx, TerraX. | ||
James the truthseeker |
Greetings TerraX, I posted that information (from the 32 contact)here on this baord for you back in feb 23, 2002 under Miscellaneous. It's still there. Peace, James TT. | ||
E. Visser |
Hi James. Just looked it up again.From my recollection I thought that the Gizeh intelligences were removed of this planet,right? If so do you know when this occured? I have wondered why these people were often accused of using religion to influence contactees.When ordinary men and women are contacted there wouldn't be much to gain from their positions in life and work.There have been plenty of those kind of normal low profile people.What tactical advantage can be gained from that? I think it's more likely they used religious terms to cross the gap.After WW2 most people were still very much religious.The et's would have taken that into account in their dealings with us.Hence the Angel style.Perhaps they also implied that we ,thousand or more years ago,looked upon them as angels. On another note,if you do accuse these et's of using religion in there agenda you can also include the Plejarans. Regards, TerraX | ||
James the truthseeker |
Greetings TerraX, The Plajans removed the Gizh Intelligences (Baffath) from the Earth back in 1978. I've posted photos of their UFO ships which were seen over a church in Egypt back in 1968, on the eduardmeier.org site for all to see if you're interested. The Plejarans of very ancient times did use religion as a way to manipulate people. But the Plejarans of our time openly stated to Billy that they are not "GOD sent ones". Salome, James the truthseeker | ||
Norm |
James, I think in the book And Yet They Fly it was stated that they (Giza/Bafath) were removed in 1983. I don't have my copy anymore, but if someone has a copy please check it. | ||
James the truthseeker |
Greetings Norm, I understand 1983 was the time when Ashtar and his team were defeated in the Dale universe by the plejarans, etc. | ||
Mark Campbell |
In reference to the above post by JTT : The photos that James posted on another site that he calls "Bafath" ships , he assumes to be of the Gizeh intelligences . This identification is Not on the part of FIGU , or anyone else . If there is ever a question as to how alot of misinformation gets circulated , this is a good example . And here the rumour starts , because someone presumed themselves to be an authority . | ||
James the truthseeker |
For Your information Mark Campbell, Not once did I ever presume or announce myself to be an FIGU authority, though I do my own research, comparisons, reading of Billy's notes etc, for mine and others comparisons to see. If you know something that I don't or have overlooked, then fine. But do not presume that others presume themselves to be authorities when you you're self aren't making the necessary inquiries for the exact Plejaran & Billy references or even research to whats being presented here by me or others. My suggestion; you can eather do you're homework and present your own findings & inquiries, or you can focus on just Billy's spiritual teachings, or you can do both. If people don't make their own inquires for the references, etc, then their not going to get answers. Also for this reason, do not expect me to go spoon feeding people anymore quotes from Billy's notes when people can ask or find these things themselves. Marc Juliano has already addressed this issue with everyone on this forum and rightfully so. Salome, James the truthseeker | ||
Jean Pierre Lagasse |
Hi James, Mark, all... My 2 cents... for what it's worth... Those of us who have been on this forum for a while now, will know the situation regarding accuracy, who's info is who's... and where this info comes from etc. Kind of "goes without saying"... at least for most of us. However, as Mark mentioned, it might be good for us all to identify exactly where our data (& conclusions) comes from, so that NEW PEOPLE on this board (& others) know as well !!! This topic is actually quite an old (& ongoing) issue on this board, and one which needs to be continuously addressed. Perhaps it is good that we are reminded of this from time to time?? Many people do jump to conclusions. To develop a "mindset" which avoids this, is one of the "lessons" from the Meier contact info... at least as far as I have been able to figure out so far. It is also very important for us to continue to examine all sorts of new data from many sources. We'll never learn anything new, otherwise. I place this post for any new forum participants... so they might begin to contemplate this "accuracy issue" also. Just my own views on this !! Salome, JP | ||
Scott B. |
Hello James, I have seen the photos on the Eduard Meier site which you have alluded to as being the ships of the Bafath. I think what would be helpful to all, is how and where did you get this information? If you could let us know how these conclusions were reached, then we could investigate this for ourselves and come to the same logical conclusions. There is so much information floating around these days, its hard to know what is true and what isn't. Billy and the Plejarens have taken on this mission to spread the lessons of Creation and to convey the truth in a way that earth people can understand it. I think we would be doing ourselves a dishonor to serve in any other capacity then by adhereing to the truth in all ways possible. We are planting the seeds of tommorrow today. Salome Scott | ||
E. Visser |
Hi James and all. In all the reading I have done in the field of ufology I've come across very little on the subjects of renegade X-Germans or the Gizeh (Bafath) group which I only came to know by name on this discussion board.I would like give a possible reason why such a hypothesis comes in the field of ufology.I'll use a movie for this which might be accurate in its script. In the movie Roswell starring Kyle McLachlan there's a scene where generals,high government officials and top scientists are discussing what to do to control the consequences of the crashed flying saucer.They talk about a cover up and preventing wide spread panic and how to deal with the media.One general says something highly interesting on how to get the maximum result; One,spread incorrect information through reputable sources. Two,spread correct information through unreputable sources. These measures might have been applied in reality in the field of ufology.Which makes it chaotic to say the least.What do you think of that hypothesis? Thanks, TerraX. | ||
James the truthseeker |
Greetings JP, Scott, TerraX, etc. Thanks for sharing that with us TerraX. I think your right on with your hypothesis as far as governments and secret societies go. To everyone one else, I think both JP and Scott have brought up some good points here which I have failed to take into consideration. As much as I may have good accurate UFO information, etc, only now did I just realize that I forgot to take into consideration possible new people on this board who may not be will informed of the Plejarans contact notes and information of which for them to relate to. Eventhough the eduardmeier.org site is for the more informed individual concerning these things, this situation is now changing. Perhaps it was just to easy for me to assume that everyone would have already known or read these things, and have these Plejaran references, ec. The best thing I can think of at this point is to go by Scott's suggestion and do a scratch write up to let eveyone know exactly how I came to these findings and in particular for new people on the board when the eduardmeier.org site is no longer just for the well informed. A future write up of Ashtar, X-Germans, Baffath, Adamski etc, will have to be done and perhaps oneday written into a book. It will take a bit of time to collect all the information together. Salome, James the truthseeker | ||
Jean Pierre Lagasse |
Hi James, Am looking forward to your book !!! Regards, JP | ||
E. Visser |
Hi all. Just finished reading about Orfeo Angelucci's contact story.I wasn't aware of that case untill Michael recited a portion of a contact note where Semjase labeled him a as a fraud.Allthough no photographic evidence is presented his story is quite impressive and at the end even mystical.Mr Angelucci discusses topics which are also present in the Meier case.Namely the usage of memory crystals and the disintegration of metal.I felt the story was written in a 'down-to-earth' style and very honest.For those interested reading about it,here's the website.Bare in mind it's a lenghty story. http://home.earthlink.net/~dexxa/_wsn/page2.html Regards, TerraX | ||
James the truthseeker |
Greetings TerraX, Thanks for the website. In all situations if the Plejarans ever over look any real UFO contactees, then I'm convinced that you'll be the first to find it. In coming to terms with what may be real, perhaps we as human beings actually also have the ability to create real UFO by just using our thoughts alone. If these things aren't real in the physical, then perhaps they are very real within our minds and this in turn will eventually give these things form to the point where we can actually see them. I have seen things which I just can't explain and perhaps may never know the truth to what these things really are. I've yet to get any real saticfactory answers for these things from FIGU or Billy himself at this time, but I also must keep in mind that not all of billy's information is accessible by me. I hope one day this will change. Peace, James TT. | ||
Edward |
Hi James-T-T, You have made some Wise comments...I would say. How Real can it All be? Right? Well, just Only seeing a Beamship or other craft...and No one else that could see it but you...would creat a problem. And as That Persoon Knowing that it is Real. Well, I would think that Billy...in some time in his life may have had some difficult times explaning his encounter to people. I have a video tape(some 13-15 years or older?) of Billy mentioning that in some cases Only He could see the Beamship(s) and No-One else around him. So, I can imagine him trying to Convince to someone with him that there is a Craft...hovering above them. So, at times...the Crafts were Only Visible to Him. As I though was the case with me just Only seeing the Crafts. And no-one else...but Lucky..they did see them...as them being my Witnesses.(As some people have mentioned maybe that I could only see them) But ofcourse..in the case of Billy...he was just Able to See Into the Vibration of the Beamships. And No-one else. So, this too may...be the case for some of use also...I would think. If that person was to Only encounter it. If they are a Selected one. Edward. | ||
Jean Pierre Lagasse |
"..in the case of Billy...he was just Able to See Into the Vibration of the Beamships. And No-one else." Just a minor correction: From what I remember and understood from "Stevens' translations", the Plejarens were able to "bend" or "arrange" their light shields so that they were invisible to everybody but Billy. If someone would have been standing exactly where Billy was, they would have seen these craft also. Billy did not "see through" any type of vibrations or whatever. Just a detail... JP | ||
Edward |
Hi Jean, Thank you for the Details. You are Correct. I remember Billy saying this. When 'Bending...or Arranging' their light-shields. Edward. | ||
E. Visser |
Hi all. James,perhaps you will know this or someone else.Which contactees besides Dan Fry and Betty&Barney Hill were labeled as genuine by the Plejarans? Regards, TerraX | ||
Edward |
Hi Terra-V, The case of Charles Hickson and Calvin Parker..in the evening of Oct. 11, 1973...in the location of Pascagola, Mississippi..while fishing. Their encounter was Face to Face with what seem to be a metalic alien-like robot. I would say...see if you can do some reading on their encounter. It's most interesting. Edward. | ||
E. Visser |
Hi Edward. Yes I know that one.They reported there encounter to the police.The police interviewed them and left a recording device on and the men continued to be very shaken up,talking about their encounter which convinced some that what those men encountered was genuine. Thx, TerraX | ||
Lars |
Hi all, I recall hearing of an alien abduction case involving some wild female aliens from some planet called Sunev. evidently they abduct earthmen take them to their planet, and then tie them up and tickle them near to death!!! Watch out these alien girls are on the prowl.... evidently they are still quite hedonisitc! Sounds like a nice group to bump into .... Lars | ||
E. Visser |
Hi Lars. If you're fond of those kind of cases I highly recommend the story of Antonio Villas Boas. http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/UFOs/boas-abduction.htm Regards, TerraX | ||
Lars |
Hi E.V., Yes that is a pretty wild and remarkable case! i heard of it briefly before, but never read the full story. evidently it must have be an experiment of the aliens? I guess that aliens like to test the reactions of humans in different sitiuations. Regards, Lars | ||
Scott Whitney |
Hi TerraX, Here is a list of contactees and some bibliopgraphic info that may be of interest to you: Ing. Dr. h.c. Daniel Fry / USA: Mr. Fry was taken on a flight demonstration. (Note his religious expressions, because these are from himself.) [Book: The White Sands Incident, Daniel W. Fry, Ph.D., Best Books Inc., 1966. Has also written The Curve of Development & Atoms, Galaxies and Understanding, unknown publisher] Prof. Joao Freitas de Guimares / Brasil: Was also taken on a flight. Victor Schauberger / Austria: Mr. Schauberger’s contact with extraterrestrials intelligences was limited to telepathic forms. Gustav Meyrich / Austria: He was a mystic and wrote different telepathically received works. [Book(s): unknown] Ray Stanford / USA: [Book(s): Socorro 'Saucer' in a Pentagon Pantry. (Austin). Blueapple Books, 1976] Mario Bertossi / Germany: His contacts with extraterrestrials are telepathic in nature. Albert Einstein / Germany / Switzerland / USA: Einstein was in direct contact with extraterrestrial intelligences and besides this, he was one of them incarnated as an Earth human being. [Books: The Anti-Gravity Handbook (contributor), Einstein Notebook, The Collected Paper of Albert Einstein (available in groups by date), Einstein's Universe, (w/ Nigel Calder), Relativity : The Special and the General Theory (w/ Robert W. Lawson) and many others. . .] Albert Schweizer / France / Africa: Same as with Albert Einstein. Both were of the same level of consciousness and spirit thus the striking similarity. [Books: Out Of My Life And Thought, Civilization and Ethics Part II, others?] Charles Hickson / USA: This person was involuntarily abducted aboard the ET ship. [Books: Wendelle Stevens investigated this case in his book titled UFO Contact at Pascagoula in 1983. It is printed under his private publishing label, The UFO Photo Archives, as a limited edition. Also mentioned in- The UFO Encyclopedia by John Spencer, UFOs and How to See Them by Jenny Randles, Unexplained Mysteries of the Twentieth Century by Janet and Colin Bord, Watch the Skies! by Curtis Peebles] Calvin Parker / USA: Likewise contacted involuntarily. [Was with Charles Hickson. See books above and synopsis below.] Betty Hill / USA: Abducted involuntarily Barney Hill / USA: Likewise abducted involuntarily. [Was with his wife above. Book: The Interrupted Journey: Two Lost Hours “Aboard a Flying Saucer” by John G. Fuller, w/ an intro by Benjamin Simon, M.D., The Dial Press, 1965., also on Audio Cassette Tape, The Interrupted Journey, read by Whitley Strieber (includes excerpts from the original recordings of the Hill’s hypnotic sessions), produced by Caedmon] Josefina Burkman / South Africa: Was taken on a flight. (Maintains silence) Juri Gagarin: / [former] USSR Dr. James E. McDonald / USA: A physics professor who was in telepathic contact with extraterrestrial intelligences, about which he kept strict silence. [James E. McDonald, Institute of Atmospheric Physics University of Arizona, Tucson. Maybe now silence has been broken . . . Writes about UFOs but I have yet to see an account of his own UFO encounter. His work is published in Scientific Study of Unidentified Flying Objects by Dr. Edward U. Condon (known as the Condon Report), UFO's: A Scientific Debate, edited by Carl Sagan and Thornton Page, and just reissued by Barnes & Noble- An excerpt thereof is found below. This list of books is not necessarily comprehensive.] Rudolf Steiner / Switzerland: Telepathic contact with ETs. [Books: Atlantis & Lemuria, Ancient Myths: Their Meaning and Connection With Evolution, Man And The World Of Stars and far too many other books to list here.] Alois Rickenbach / Switzerland: Personal contact with extraterrestrials. Keeps silent about it. Horst Raps / Germany: Real-vision contact with extraterrestrials. (The knowledge about his contact became extinguished in him again, since he offers himself deceptively as an ongoing contactee. [Book in German: Raumreisen in extraterrestrischen Flugkörpern Horst Raps, J. de Freitas Guimaraes, 1973 ISBN 3-88071-057-0, Ventla 80 Pages, 23 Photos] Charles A. Maney / USA: Had direct contact with extraterrestrials but keeps strict silence about that. [Professor of Physics, Defiance College, Ohio; UFO Historical Figure; NICAP, APRO member. Books?] Wilbert B. Smith / Canada: Had direct contact with extraterrestrials, but according to an order kept strict silence. Became leader of Canadian Project Magnet. [Canadian official, reported UFOs "classified higher than H-bomb”; Deceased 1962; Books he is referenced in: The UFO Encyclopedia, Volume 1: UFOs in the 1980s: pgs. 37-38, 41, 64, The UFO Encyclopedia, Volume 2: UFOs from the Beginning through 1959: 8, 115, 309-314 (Bio with extensive bibliography), Above Top Secret: The Worldwide UFO Coverup (multiple references including facsimile letters), UFOs are Real: Extraterrestrial Encounters Documented by the U.S. Government (Copy of Wilbur Smith memorandom, 11/21/50)] Scott | ||
E. Visser |
Hi Scott. Thanks for the extensive information.I recognise a few but most I don't.I will take a look at it when I have the time,thx. Hi Lars. The Boas 'incident' is amazing but it's also pretty rare to find those kind of cases.What the purpose was of that experiment? I have no clear argument for it.Perhaps a combination of factors like researching human sexuality and emotions. Researching the fertilesation of an et egg and earth seed and subsequent stages of development. But what I just mentioned is my own speculation. Regards, TerraX | ||
Norm |
Scott, Thanx for the info. I just ordered a copy of the The Interrupted Journey Audio Cassette. I can't wait to hear the excerpts of the actual regression tapes. TerraX, Now you can start researching some real cases! | ||
James the truthseeker |
Greetings everyone, If Albert Einstein and Albert Schweizer were of the same spiritual level of consciousness and spirit, does this mean that people actually have parallel incarnations or lives at the same time? Perhaps Jane Robberts was correct after-all in that we can have multiple incarnations or existences at this same time, or perhaps there is another explaination for this such as time travel. Can more then one person share the same spirit? Something to think about, James TT. | ||
Scott Whitney |
Hi James, In regards to Albert Schweizer, where the notation says 'Same as with Albert Einstein. Both were of the same level of consciousness and spirit thus the striking similarity.', I don't think this means they were of the same spirit form - but rather of the same spirit level (i.e. state of evolution) As far as I know, it is not possible for a spirit to occupy more than one physical body at a time. Scott | ||
James the truthseeker |
Greetings Scott, It was my assumption too that a spirit could not accupy more then one physical body at the same time, however, My understanding is that Einstein and Schweizer where also look alikes which is very common with people who reincarnate and still look very much like their previous lives. I also wondered about the Earth look likes concerning Asket and Nera and if this to could be related to parallel lives. I've heard of twins being separated at birth who have met again many years later, who have had the same cars, jobs, interests, wives with the same names and likes along with the same number of children with the same names. They would live in towns also with the same name at the same time, but in different parts of the country. Peace, James the truthseeker | ||
E. Visser |
Hi Scott and all. I looked into the list you posted but first I want to ask a question.What is the definition of a contactee according to your or figu standards? I ask this because when looking into some of the names they apperently had a sighting of a ufo and I couldn't find any further information.Others seem to be of the telepathic impulse kind since they were scientists and didn't report any ufo related info to my knowledge. Regards, TerraX | ||
Scott Whitney |
Here is how Semjase prefaced the list I posted above. The translation is a little funny sounding, but I think it is reasonbly clear in meaning: ******* This list only contains the names of the most important contactees, because in truth, there are several hundred people who are officially known. And when I speak about being official, my father and I mean not so much by world publicity, but rather more being official in small circles which spread certain truths; but these circles don't mention that there are persons among them who have contacts with extraterrestrials. The people of whom I will now tell you are earthhuman beings of great importance, and who have partially appeared before the world's publicity. ******* Also, it occurs to me that not all of the above mentioned people necessarily published a book about their contact. I only included book information where I was able to find something relevant. Scott | ||
E. Visser |
Hi Scott and all. Thanks for that translation.I must admit that I'm having diffeculty putting it into proper perspective.For me the definition of a contactee will look something along the lines of the following."A person that is contacted by unknown,possibly extra-terrestial sources,with additional support (photographs,movies, eyewitnesses,etc) the claims of this person gain in truthfullness." That's my version of a contactee.I find the Plejaran version rather compartmentalised. When looking into the list you provided there were a number of contactees.Betty&Barney Hill, Hickson&Parker,Ray Stanford,Horst Raps and Dan Fry. When I throw my definition at it Dan Fry's case would have the most value since he had photographic support.The other names of the list are ristricted to a fascinating story and to my knowledge have no additional support. Dan Fry's case was listed as genuine in the contact notes but according to Billy and Ptaah his photographs were falsified and his story got thoroughly distorted.This comment makes the Dan Fry case lose a tremendous ammount of validity. I'll return to that later. Also on the list were a number of scientists and if they had a contact they certainly kept silent about it not only from the fear to be ridiculed but also from the fear of losing their job and status. From an investigative point of view these names are not so usefull.If they had additional support they probably witheld it. The telepathic impulse contact offers little means off validating simply by its immaterial nature.I'm not saying that it doesn't exist,I'm saying that I have no means to conclude either way and therefore I leave it open. The cases that did offer a tremendous ammount of support besides Mr Meiers get negative critics in the contact notes.Why is that? Regards, TerraX | ||
Scott Whitney |
Hi TerraX, Right, wrong or indifferent, the Pleiadian way of thinking sometimes seems foreign to me. (and why should it be otherwise?) So it is no surprise to me that what they condsider a valid contactee is not always what a UFO investigator would consider a valid contactee. A typical UFO investigator may only interested in what is 'provable'. While the Pleiadians (I am speculating here) could care a less if a contactee's case is 'provable' or not. I am guessing that the Pleiadians probably consider that facts are facts, regardless of how they appear to people in UFO circles etc. Scott | ||
James the truthseeker |
Greetings TerraX, I'd say that UFO contacts occur at different levels of being. such as; -the sighting kind. -the unconscious kind. -the conscious telepathic kind. -the unconscious abduction kind. -the conscious abduction kind. -the meeting the aliens in person kind. -the full conscious ride in a UFO kind. Or you can see it as "close encounters of the 1-6 kind". James TT. | ||
E. Visser |
Hi Scott,James and all. Interesting to highlight the Plejaran way of thinking.It does seem very foreign at times and what the Plejarans consider as facts we might not since we lack the tools or scientific basis to validate them. There is however one major argument that can said about that.The Plejarans choose to initiate a contact and let themselves be known.They themselves set things in motion with the help of Mr Meier.They themselves are now responsible and accountable for their actions here on Earth. In their dealings with us I see at times a refusal to converse at our level and at times we simply have to take their word for it.This is reminisent of the time when et's decided what was good for us. I do realise that the majority of this planet isn't ready for the reality of ufo's and et's but the Plejarans could have made it a bit easier for us by simply making a bit more (Earth) sense. Thx, TerraX | ||
Scott Whitney |
To my knowledge, the Pleiadians have never asked us to, 'take their word for it.' In contrast, they recommend we question, examine, scrutinize and ponder everything. I also don't think they have any intention, nor should they, to make it 'a bit easier for us'. Knowledge that is worth anything takes effort and hard work. Things that are attained easily or handed over on a silver platter are often taken for granted and have no lasting value. Scott | ||
Linda |
Hello Scott W., I find it most interesting that Semjase now says (or once upon a time ago said) that there are "several hundred people who are officially known" as contactees. This is new information. This forum has consistently denied the existence of "official contactees" other than Billy and five others who are now deceased, but has allowed for a small percentage of telepathic contactees, which of course, cannot be verified. This claim seems to stem from Billy's own statement that there is approximately 1 real contact per 5000 false claims. Is Semjase saying that these contactees are Plejaren contactees, or contactees of some other ET race? Given the numbers of military, intelligence, and government officals who have been violating their own security oaths, risking their lives and careers, the numbers grow rapidly with those who claim contacts, not to mention the hundreds or hundreds of thousands of ordinary civilians who claim some kind of "close encounter" of whatever kind. Looking forward to your response, Linda | ||
E. Visser |
Hi Scott. You're correct in stating that the Plejarans never literally asked to take their word for it. However in the contact notes many contactees and photographers are labeled as fraud,sometimes with the minimum explanation and sometimes with no explanation.That I find too easy and is asking too take their word for it. The Plejarans are not so different from any militairy,government or secret organisation here on Earth.In the 251th contact note part 3,Ptaah discloses certain issues that were only open for discussion when the Plejarans left Earth in 1995. For years we have been told that besides the Plejarans 3 other et races visit Earth.Now suddenly he discloses that there are 'a few more' and even one with interdimensional capability. It's not only the fact that they witheld information.They couldn't acknowledge any related information to those et races here on Earth before 1995. Is that why they labeled so many contactees and oberservers as frauds,liars and cheats? You are right when you say that one has to put in his work and effort but if one gets incorrect information to work with one is sidetracked. Regards, TerraX | ||
James the truthseeker |
Greetings TerraX, Now you're thinking! I've asked myself the same questions a few years ago. Over time I soon realized that Wendelle Stevens had actually deleated out a lot of these explanations to questions that you're asking in the first published translations of the plejaran contacts. Something to think about, James TT. | ||
Scott Whitney |
I can't be sure, but I my understanding is Semjase is just referring to a contact (from any ET race), not necessarily a Pleiadian contact in the above list. Also, note that she says this is only a list of 'important' contacts not all contacts. When the Pleiadians refer to Billy being the only contact, I think they mean that he is the only one with ongoing, meaningful contacts. This is where the Pleiadian way of thinking and wording, in my opinion, differs from ours. Sometimes, they seem to leave off qualifying words that would help explain the background and define their terms. However, keep in mind that these are conversations btwn Billy and Semjase (or other contactors) and so they might not always explain and define every word because the meaning may be known to both of them during the context of their conversation. Or their terms may have been defined in some earlier contact and are not repeated every time. It gets difficult to understand sometimes when it is read out of context (like posting short snipets) when we humans read it later on. The other thing I have noticed, is that unless a specific question is directly addressed, they don't necessarily fill in additional background information. It is sort of like unless the right question is asked, the answer is withheld. And they don't seem to volunteer additional background info, unless Billy really digs for it. This isn't always the case, but I have noticed it often in the contacts. As far as I know, the Pleiadians only label a purported contactee as a fraud when such is the case. I have never heard of a case when they falsly accused someone of being a fraud just to suit their own purposes. I think they always they speak the truth, but not necessarily always the whole truth. In my opinion withholding information until the right time, is not a bad thing. Sometimes information known too soon can be detrimental. So I don't fault them for not tellings us absolutely everything all at once. Sometimes, I think it would have been helpful to know a bit more than they released at the time, but I may not be seeing the whole picture either. Wendelle did delete a lot from the Contact notes. He toned them down and removed things of a biting religious nature. This is a case where the missing context can make it more difficult to understand. That is why I think it is so important to get the contact notes translated into English with NO ommisions. Scott | ||
JAY |
Hi Scott, I do also believe that The Plejarans have done this also for the sake of regulations which are universal within the federation in which they come from. It always seems to be the case at all times when information is given in the Contact notes. I think is regulatory for them to do this for the sake of respect for all Humans races out there and all other races of different types who are learning and exploring for the matter of spiritual as well a technical evolution. Is more like an intervention command which must be practiced amongst them all. | ||
Hampton Hsien-Ting Chiu |
Hi Any one knows why Ptaah learn ancient Greek and what did he do to influence early Greek civilization? I would not be surprised to know that Ptaah landed in a remote 'City State' in ancient Greek and teach the value of democracy to Greek people. In China, Japan, India or any other country in Asia, never did the concept of democracy grows, when power falls on few people, they never let the power go, so early Greek democratic statehood really affected the whole planet Earth, did Ptaah did it? Anyone opinion? Peace. Hampton Chiu | ||
E. Visser |
Hi Scott and all. I wonder about something now that we have dug a bit more into the Plejaran way of thinking and releasing information.One side is understandable, a restriction on information as too not upset our reality and cause panic or other kinds of damage. If I can get back to the contactee phenomanon I'm able to make my point with an example.A contactee of the 50's,Orpheo Angelucci is labelled as a fraud in the second contact note by Semjase.When I read his accounts I saw many similarities with Mr Meiers case but one major difference.His ET contactors spoke of a Creator,not of Creation. We allready more or less have established that the Plejarans comment from their point of view. Since we know that Mr Meier and the Plejarans are anti-religion and supporters of the Creational teachings is it plausible that they couldn't acknowledge those cases which dealt with a Creator? TerraX | ||
E. Visser |
Hi all. I wish to comment on the question I posed to Mr Meier and his explanation.My question was; "My question is about the Adamski and Menger contact case.Many people have testified in support off Adamski and Menger, that they have seen not only the ships but even the extra-terrestials themselves.Why is it that in the contact-notes those cases are considered to be a fraud while there is so much supporting evidence?" "Answer: Hi TerraX (are you a robot?), These cases are called a hoax because they are really a hoax, and since the "witnesses" testified things they thought to be real, but which were only a figment of their imagination, implanted by very strong suggestive powers. (especially in the case of the late Mr Adamski)" First I would like to answer the question if I'm a robot.No,I am not.I'm a free spirit with an open mind.I do my own work, stand my own ground. I see both the positive and negative sides in order to get the most complete picture possible. In order to fully understand Mr Meiers reply one has to look at the contact notes which go more indepth.Mr Hans G. Lanzendorfer was so kind to sum up sections from different contact notes into an article, availible on his site. (http://www.lanzendorfer.ch/Artikel_Daten/kleinschrift_1.htm) The article is in the German language.I have translated portions into English.There might be translation errors but since German is similar to my native tongue the meaning of what was said didn't pass me by. 17th contact note Semjase: The last weeks, several attempts from different angles were undertaken to highlight the cheater Adamski as the father of Ufo-contactee history.The basis for this were the sworn testimonies by Adamski's friends who claimed to have seen and experienced certain things.However these claims are lies and not in correspondence with the truth.George Adamski influenced his friends and acquintances with suggestion, making them see and experience things that weren't there.Not many people know that Adamski possesed the power of suggestion, those who did kept silence out of fear.That he was a phenomanol suggestor is completely unknown, offcourse he kept this to himself and for his own use.Because of this enormous high suggestion power he managed to let his friends experience fantasies which they thought were true.Like him there are many who aren't afraid to use any means to reach the status of a prophet. So there you have it.Adamski influenced other people into making them see things.The other contact portions speak off the same observation. Now, since I'm having a good day I'm gonna express myself mildly by saying that the notion that Adamski used suggestion to make people see and experience events is complete nonsense.Since I allready did the math on the entire article I'm gonna refrain from presenting my views other than that Adamski remains the father of Ufo-Contactee history. Good day. TerraX. | ||
Jean Pierre Lagasse |
Hi all, Elsewhere on this forum, there was a discussion on the "bleeding of hands" etc. Also, there is the concept that images can appear on camera film etc. due to "mental powers" etc. And, there is always the "abduction guys"... interestingly, mostly a "North American" phenomena. Etc...!! Perhaps these types of (mentally induced) phenomena are more common than we think??? The idea that this might happen is well within the realm of possibility & should be considered/examined/researched. From what has been said, another way of approaching the Adamski case would be to research what "other" types of "abilities" he might have had, perhaps especially when he was young? To anybody's knowledge, has this ever been done??? Any "stories" on this??? A sidenote: Online translators are notoriously unreliable & although I use them a lot, I do NOT trust (or depend upon/quote) the results!! As always... just thoughts. JP | ||
Lars |
Hi JPL About whether Adamski had other "types of abilities"? I found Adamski may have had telepathic abilities from the evidence-knowledge he supplied and wrote about in a three part manual in 1958, called"Telepathy, the Cosmic or Universal language" from the standpoint of basic occult science his writing on telepathy is quite good and reveals many secrets about the subject. from his writings it appears Adamski was very knowledgable as to what is and how telepathy functions. and I can only conclude that someone who writes this indepth about a subject must know and have some experience firsthand of the verities of which he writes and lectures on. Adamski appears to have been an extremely well read and literate man, which is obvious from his publications. One has to ask, if Adamski was such a hoaxer, delusional imposter, liar i.e. Then how could he exhibit such decent conduct and masterful writings on occult science filled with genuine respect,order and good will to all men? regards, Lars | ||
Jean Pierre Lagasse |
Hi Lars, Very Excellent point/observation !!! | ||
Linda |
TerraX, It's unfortunate Billy raised the question, "Are you a robot?" without adding a smile as he did with other answers. It makes me wonder if he's insinuating you are a programmed conduit without the ability to think for yourself. That seems to be the argument for the Adamski witnesses as well, i.e. persons under someone's spell. Personally, I would be a bit offended at this point. Of course, it's possible that the name "TerraX" makes Billy think of some robot, but I don't have any idea of who or where that could be. What would be the problem if Adamski was,in fact, the father of UFO-history? Is Billy or FIGU arguing about who fathered what? If so, I don't understand the problem when what matters are the messages coming from our space neighbors. Billy only claims to have contact with one group, the P's. When many other ET races have been identified, it only stands to reason that other humans have been selected to communicate with them. My thoughts for now, Linda | ||
E. Visser |
Hi Linda,JPL and Lars. I'm not offended by the question.I know I reached my own conclusions to the best of my ability. Adamski ushered in a new era.A link not only with New Age thinking but also with the cosmos itself. He was the first in recorded history to do this and some gave him the title 'father of Ufo-Contactee history'. To assume that Adamski had phenomanol suggestive powers and influenced his friends into seeing 12 meter sized objects and extra-terrestial persons in broad daylight is ridiculous.Howard Menger who reported the same crafts and et's had even more eyewitnesses of the extra-terrestials, including family members.A fact hardly discussed.In that criteria, namely the eyewitnesses of the extra terrestial persons themselves, the Adamksi and Menger case do far better than the Meier case which hardly anyone seems to realise.Would Adamski have bothered to enter the world of ufology if he had phenomanol suggestive powers? I think not. What's phenomanol is the effort by Mr Meier and the Plejarans in debunking the Adamski case in every conceivable way.Now why would one validate his own case with the help of criteria such photographs, movies and eyewitnesses and take away those same criteria in other cases? What would be the result of unvalidating those cases? For me it is simple, someone else wants the title and not just only that. TX | ||
Norm |
Where's the BEEF? When have Adamski's photos passed the so called tests. I've never seen it. TX, Adamski wanted Fame thats why he faked his story! If advanced guys like Giza can do crooked things, then sure as heck earth men with powers will! | ||
Michael |
Regarding the dead horse of Adamski and his photos, once he died...what happened to all the UFOs and ETs he was supposedly in touch with? Did they all evaporate, was there NO ONE who could have picked up his banner and carried on with this monumentally important work, no one who could have taken (better) pictures, etc.? Ah yes, the Adamski "case" with enough PROOF to fill a thimble...and room left over for a football stadium. MH | ||
Savio |
Hi TerraX As you commented "To assume that Adamski had phenomanol suggestive powers and influenced his friends into seeing 12 meter sized objects and extra-terrestial persons in broad daylight is ridiculous." Would you comment on the Fatima case? Thousands of people saw with their own eyes that the sun was dancing in the sky. However, there was no such report among other parts of the world. Perhaps, seeing is not necessary believing. Regards Savio | ||
Scott B. |
Hello Terra X and Savio, I will have to say one of the earliest books I read regarding UFOs was George Adamski's book. At the time it seemed plausible and possible, but again I couldn't prove anything. I did take a few of the home study course offered by the Adamski foundation. As I look back at it, the Adamski book was just a stepping stone on my way to discovering Billy's information. For some people it could have been the Shirley McClain story, and for others it could have been the movie "Close Encounters". I wonder where many of us would be today if we hadn't discovered Billy's information and story. I think the important thing is not to stop in our search for truth. Savio, your are indeed correct, seeing isn't always believing especially today in the world of new technology which we are being exposed to every day. Salome Scott Baxter | ||
E. Visser |
Hi all. Norm. The following link is Adamski's book "Inside The Spaceships".In the intro you'll see a section by Desmond Leslie explaining the testing off the photographs and the results.For those who are bored check out chapter 5 where Adamski's contactors speak not only of a Creator but also of Creation.What a coincedence huh? http://www.universe-people.com/adamsk_e.htm Savio. The Fatima incident sounds like a ufo, doesn't it? Some writers in the field of ufology have suggested that.On the other hand you could throw it on mass hysteria but everyone sharing the same illusion becomes unlikely.There are plenty of people that are strong of mind. Michael. I'm curious Michael,do you call yourself an ufo investigator or researcher? Is bigger automaticly better? Do bits off accurate scientific prophectic information make you right in every instance? Who followed up on Adamski? Menger! As I tried to explain several times.Actually there's a lot of information on these people and their way of thinking.Rolf Telano's "An Extraterrestial Statement" presents this the best with a huge amount of information not very different than the Meier info.Yes,another follow up and yes it predated the Meier case. Why don't we see or hear from them now? I think that has to do with moral conduct.They can't intervene by their own laws.If they would present themselves again and let photographs be taken, what would that make Mr Meier and Plejarans look like? What would that do to the people who made their minds up thinking that the Meier info is correct regarding Adamski? From their point of view they don't have the right to change someones mind.That's why they are keeping a low profile and leave it to the people of Earth to work it out.These people show far higher morals, ethics and understanding than Mr Meier and the Plejarans. TX | ||
Norm |
TX, Desmond Leslie is co-author of the book you need to do better than that. | ||
Jean Pierre Lagasse |
Hi TerraX, I could counter your observations point by point, as I'm sure others here could also but... I really don't think there would be much of a point. I perceive your questions as honest ones in that you are intent on getting answers or some form of "reconciliation". Also, you have been frequenting this forum quite a bit and have contributed substantially to thought/ideas etc. As such, I will try to pass on a few concepts... as best as I know these (for now!). In the "Buddist sense"... perhaps Christian's "question" was a "gift"??? Something he was trying to get you to see??? If I compare his question to yours, I think you got the better "end of the stick" so to speak. For example... You seem to know about the Meier info... so you would have known what the answer would be, before you even asked this. Why did you ask? What were your intentions? What were you "really" trying to "get at"??? (Whether Billy is "right" or "wrong" is not part of this...) Perhaps Christian would have observed all this (& most likely far more ) by your question alone. I know I did... most likely others also. In spite of this, he offered you "the standard answer" which you/we knew already and "a gift/question" besides... Quetzel's latest "Official" communication might contain some clues to some of this. It is really very good... One of the (many) reasons I frequent the Meier information/forum are the concepts held by the information itself. In the area of "self-developement" the Plejaran/Meier ideas are really very excellent and worthwhile to contemplate (& live!). Perhaps Adamski did not present any such ideas??? Makes me wonder what type of "aliens" he was in contact with... (if at all...)? Salome, Pierre | ||
Michael |
Hi TX, I am a researcher not a UFO investigator and I haven't mentioned bigger, only better. I don't care that much about UFOs because there's not a very big chance I can "do" anything with them. I doubt that I'm going to be offered a ride or loaned a ship to fly around in. SO UFOs, interesting as they are, don't prove anything to me. In the Meier case it's the information that proves the case beyond a reasonable doubt. It's the information that proves the UFOs, not the other way around. Which brings us to Adamski/Menger. Does the information prove the case? Why not do something similar to what I did and post the information from that case in such a way as to demonstrate it's authenticity? Since the argument about what Adamski and Menger saw or photographed is very dead end the only thing, in my opinion, that makes it even worth talking about is the proof that the case either does or doesn't contain. And remember, Meier's material spans a very wide variety of subjects and is very specific. The language used by the Plejarans as well is very consistent. There's no "space brother" lingo and I only found one time so far that anybody said "I believe", when Ptaah was trying to remmeber someone's name or something like that. Your argument as to why the Adamski ETs don't show up, i.e. they don't have the right to change people's minds, isn't very good. Look at how much evidence there already is for the Meier case and some people still won't accept it! And nobody forces people to change their minds, people decide for themselves what they think. It's hard to attribute such lofty motives to imaginary people, unless of course you can prove that they exist in the first place. | ||
Jean Pierre Lagasse |
Hi all, I think this discussion has become "involved" to the point that maybe we should all take "time out" & simply contemplate everything which was said !!! Good points though... all the way around !! Much to think about... Salome, JP | ||
E. Visser |
Hi all. JPL I appreciate honest questions.My intentions were to show you with logic and reason that some of the cases labeled as a hoax in the contact notes are genuine.That inturn would mean offcourse that Mr Meier is incorrect and that the Plejarans are lying.You might ask yourself why I maintain this standpoint.That too has to do with logic and probability chances.I rate what is likely to unlikely on a scale if you like. I find it unlikely that many contact cases are a hoax and suddenly there is Mr Meier who is the real thing.I find the notion that Adamski used suggestive powers unlikely which inturn makes it likely that Mr Meier and the Plejarans are debunking the Adamski case.When I see that many other contact cases get labeled a hoax the probabilty increases that one is doing the debunking on purpose.That also makes this entire proces diffecult.I will continue with this when I have more time. Regards, TerraX | ||
James the truthseeker |
Greetings TerraX, After all this time and comments, perhaps it should come as no surprise to you to still see a conflict here concerning the Adamski case vs the Meier case. From my perspective, Billy's answer to your question was expected and perhaps even a wast of a question sense we already know were Billy and the Plejarans stand with all of this. I'm surprised you didn't ask instead about Madeleine Rodeffer, the X-Nazis and their UFOs still present in a mountian in Germany, where Adamski aquired his hypnosis skills, or even the German Haunabu II UFO craft! Yes it is true that Billy and the Plejarans have PROVEN to be very "elusive" concerning crop circles, cattle mutilations, military activities, X-nazi Germans, benefactor ETs, etc, and because of this I'm further surprised that you don't look more into these matters yourself to draw your own further conclusions to share with others. Perhaps you may want to bring this up with Billy himself. Does this mean Billy and the Plejarans are liars? No, it just means that what Billy and the Plejarans are saying is there are things which are truths to a certain point, as you have to find the rest which can be much more then anyone may realize! Peace, James the truthseeker | ||
Michael |
Regarding "I find it unlikely that many contact cases are a hoax and suddenly there is Mr Meier who is the real thing." Just how sudden is it that Billy went public in 1975, at 38 years of age, when his first contacts occurred in 1942, when he was 5 years of age? The way I figure, that's 33 YEARS of preparation for a public "mission". And during that time he had meetings and travels with Asket which were later transcribed. Of course, how could that even hope to compare to a guy who simply walks up and meets a man from "Venus" in the desert? So again, what is the value you derive from the Adamski material, what is the value you derive from the Meier material? | ||
E. Visser |
Hi All. James,you know my standpoint on the X-Nazi's.I did look into it.Read R.O. Schmidt's account which btw semjase labels as a hoax in contact note nr 2.Looked into the German scientists who received impluse telepathy which despite their novel scientific ideas had no aftermath whatsoever.A quick assesement on the X-Nazis from my point of view. They build a prototype flying saucer at the end of WW2.They don't implement it in their war effort which is strange because Hitler was only reluctant to use gas/chemical warfare, for the rest anything went up in the air including V1 and V2,Me262 and the Comet and the latest developed jetfighters.The few Haunabu crafts just in time build before the closing stages of WW2 are used by the higher echelon (not Hitlers henchmen and higher commandants or generals, those people are put on trial in Neurenberg or try to flee the normal way like Himmler).So this rather vague and secret group flees elsewhere.This same group quickly builds a base of operations,isn't worried about Allied persecution and starts a false et contact scenario within 7 years in America by contacting ordinary citizen and gain what? Sorry James if I sound like a Vulcan but I fail to see the logic.Concerning Madeline Rodeffer, the version in the books is that Adamski gave Madeline his camera because he was allready seriously ill from cancer.The movie was taken shortly before Adamski's death.Madeline also noticed three men that left when the saucer came into view.I think you mixed up bits of information from the contact notes and what is the official written version. Concerning my question I posed to Mr Meier.I posted that question two months out of curiosity and I wanted more clarification as to why it is labeled a hoax.About a month ago I came across Mr Lanzendorfer's article.After that it toke me weeks to translate some of the contact notes written therein.By the time Mr Meier reply was posted I was aware what was said in the contact notes and anticipated the answer. JPL, to take off where I left.I try to use logic and probability calculations.What I also find disturbing is that Mr Meier and the Plejarans use debunking ways which are also used against the Meier case.There are plenty of people who accuse Mr Meier of faking his photographs and movies.How would you react if someone like Korff would say that Mr Meier uses suggestive powers to make people see and experience things and thereby virtually obliviate the case? I would like to show you my translations of the partial contact notes from the article concerning the effort that goes into the Adamski case.I'll present my own observations after that. See next post. | ||
Matthew Anthony Hurley |
I'm not an expert on the Adamski case but I'm sure I read somewhere that most (if not all) of his descriptions of the other planets in our solar system were highly inaccurate and hogwash !!!! :-) Matt | ||
E. Visser |
50th contact note Billy: While we reached the subject off Adamski.Did he see a beamship at all? This must be. How did he know how they looked like in order to make cartboard and metal models? Semjase: He never saw a beamship, this was checked and analised by us.His knowledge goes back to a conversation with a person who described the flying devices to him.This person however kept silent about her observations, this is why she is not known.Adamski made drawnings according to the womans descriptions which he than further developed into schematics and models which in turn were used in trick photography and distributed world wide.He was an evil charlatan and cheater in meanest form. -This is where James-T-T gets his theory from that not Adamski was a contactee but Madeline Rodeffer (hope you don't mind that I mention you James).This would however imply that a craft with those characteristics exist and opens up other possibilties.Other people did photograph the same craft around the world.The content of that contact note is highly critical of Adamski as you can see. 57th contact note Billy: Did he ever see a beamship or spaceship and are all of his pictures forgeries? Semjase: Your question is illogical because I answered it several times. Billy: I know you said that he never saw a beamship or spaceship, nor a telemetership. Your explanation was that he used the descriptions of a woman who only saw a beamship once for making models.He build a 30cm models which he used for the pictures.What about his films,are they all false? Semjase: Certainly, no doubt exists. Billy: Good, you told me once, that Adamski before his death was compelled to tell the world that he was a charlatan.Your explanation was that this was put into writing and that he personally signed the document.Did you find out where this document is and is it possible that I can have it? Semjase: You must be patient since we have few leads where this person is who has the document.With certainty it will be accessible within a year. -This is a re-confirmation again,starting basicly in contact note nr 1 and in nr 2 Adamski is called by name as a fraud.In the previous contact notes the photographs were labeled as fraudulous, in this one the movies rather casually gets the same treatment without explanation. Perhaps you'll realise this or not but people in general have a tendency to start believing when things get repeated over and over. Adamski admitting guilt? Adamski developed a cancer which ultimately cost him his life.The latter stages of this terrible disease have a profound impact.Was Adamski sound of mind when he supposedly admitted guilt? Would he have understand a question in his dying hours? We will never know the truth. What is clear is that Billy and Semjase gladly use this sad fact to their own advantage.Where is that document anyway? 34th contact note Ptaah: You know a certain George Adamski, don't you? Billy: You know I spoke about him on several occassions.Besides that I know him personally from the past when I met him in May 1959 in Volkshaus Zurich.At the time I didn't get the best of impressions from him, albeit I had someone do the translations since I had not mastered the English language yet.I did conclude that the man was very obstinate and had an unusual big ego which he concealed with an almost perfectly played friendlyness and charity.I sensed that the man was extraordinary persuasive and suggestive and allways managed to draw attention on to him.It was clear that he had set an ideal and played the role of being helpfull to the surpressed in order to reach his goals.It seemed to me that from the first to the last line only his own interests were important, in every fiber of his body.At the time I had the impression that in every conversation he was focused on his own person and will, guided by his own fantasies and suggestive strenght.It seemed to me he was obsessed with his own will and wanted the focus of people on himself in every conversation. Ptaah: You have observed and analysed this man correctly, which no Earth man has done sofar.Adamski indeed had those named qualities, which he almost perfectly hided in order to trick unfortunate people.He was born in the sign of Ram and his character came out highly negative.The reason why I again make remarks about this man and on parapsychology is this: the by him named extra-terrestials don't exist in any form and are only the product of fantasy of your own impossible parapsychology in the first the degree.In the second degree are the fantasy manifestations by Adamski.He was an unsaveable mystic and fantast with extremely high developed suggestive abilities.For years he didn't speak off extra-terrestials in a specific form in your unrealistic parapsychology ways, later Adamski created with fantasy a form, namely the universal guardian.Not parapsychology nor Adamski reach the core of truth in the slightest. -The photographs were labeled as forgeries.The movies were labeled as forgeries.The sworn testimonies by witnisses were false, influenced by Adamski's phenomanol suggestive powers which was unheard of untill the contact notes.This still wasn't enough, as you can see above. Adamski's reputation had to go.His character had to go.Every facet had to go.Why this tremendous effort to reduce this man to an insignificant hoaxer while he shares many similarities which make up the Meier case? Mr Meier, who bought Adamski's books.Must have read that Adamski's contactors also spoke of Creation.Went to see Adamski on a lecture.Must have known all about the Adamski case and had an interest.Mr Meier out of all people on this Earth, a fellow contactee, a fellow lightworker, trying to lift the spirits of men and women with messages of love, wisdom and understanding.Mr Meier who endures the same negative effects as Adamski did, gets called a lair, a hoaxer, a fraud.Mr Meier who is in the best position in the world to understand what Adamski has gone through.Mr Meier calls Adamski a fraud.How illogical, how unreasonable, how sad. I made my conclusions and I rest my case. Regards, TerraX | ||
JAY |
Hi Michael and Terra X, After any of us have been involved for so long in the Meier case and has met and travelled to the FIGU site in Switzerland, it will become all very true and very factual as Michael Horn has experienced. Is like the old saying "out of sight out of mind", this is why we have to all become good researches to be able to get the whole experience. This is not the story of how ELVIS is still alive which most of the world will believe more than believing scientifical information. This is the history and the story of a CONTACT person (like Jmmanuel, Abraham or Muhammad)who is following along the lines of the same similar mission as that of ancient times, it has not changed and I seriouly don't believe it will until humankind here on earth gets it right. Adamski's case my have its validy and very parallel information but it lacks the MISSION status about ourselves and our future, is as if it has been a HUMAN STUDY format for the ETs who have visited Adamski. My feelings are that if questions are brought up to Meier to prove if some issues are hoaxed or not then they should really be brought to the PLEJARANS by Meier or he may want to bring the information over to PTAAH and then relayed to us. People, this is about our reincarnations here on earth, to make it a better place for the following incarnations if possible. Humans have always been spoken and conditioned about DIVINE INTERVENTION instead of HIGHER HUMAN INTERVENTION intervention by our "Cosmic brothers" like the stories of the American Indians when they speak of Cosmic brothers. | ||
James the truthseeker |
Greetings TerraX, You made some good points here concerning Adamski although I still hold to my views and I'm sure you will always hold to yours. At present a friend of mine is attempting to get me in contact with Madeline Rodeffer herself as she is still alive so I can discuss this all with her and get her perspective. Alive as she is, she just may release some new information in regards to all of this. Only time will tell. About the Germans building Haunabu 2 UFOs within a 7 year time period in Brazil and Germany? A lot can happen in 7 years. It took much less then that for the world to use JET aircraft and other German inventions following the second world war. Peace, James the truthseeker | ||
Michael |
TerraX, Funny how you don't address the points raised that show inconsistency and insubstantiality in the Admaski case. When I was reading some of Adamski's material it seemed that he was quite upset that someone with whom he was having a dispute was taking his "followers". Does this perhaps give you another clue as to the true character of the man? You try to speak in the same context of credibility about Adamski as has been proven about Meier, without offering a shred of proof, not a shred. While you're entitled to your fascination with the insubstantial Adamski matter perhpas you should do the necessary RESEARCH to see just what the immense body of Meier material is comprised of. It certainly isn't about gathering followers. Instead of taking some kind of personal offense at the way in which the Plejarans and Billy easily dismiss Adamski as an irrelevant hoaxer, PLEASE PRESENT SUBSTANTIATION FOR THE AUTHENTICITY OF HIS CASE, i.e. some IRREPRODUCIBLE physical evidence, specific prophetically accurate scientific and world event-related information published well in advance of discovery or occurrence. Your argument might then gain some attention...and respect. | ||
Edward |
Hi Terra-V...and All... Billy:"Are You a Robot?" Terra-V:"Take Me To Your Leader..." Just Kidding Terra.. Well...I would Surely Agree with what Linda has said. What she made clear would Also be my Interpretation. If you do not find it a personal matter from Billy...thats your choice...ofcourse. And Ofcourse what Norm said...I would Agree also. And for the rest....Yes...I would Surely Stand with them also. Concerning myself....'ON ONE'...can Change My Mind..and take me Off The Billy Meier Experience! ON ONE! Someone once said to me:"Edward....what if you have it all at the Wrong End"? Well my answer was:"Well...if I'm Wrong...Well...I have an Endless time to Reincarnate..till I Do Find it. And Even if Billy's Proof (pictures, Films....etc.)...and his Contacts were fake...Well...I Would Still...Acknowledge His..Spirtitual Wisdom and Knowledge of the Laws of Nature and Creation...and The Absolute Absolutum." But as I mentioned once before..."Billy IS The Man!" Without a Doubt! I Will Stick to what I said before...:"I Have Finally Found What I was Looking For! And I Truely Have." Edward. | ||
E. Visser |
Hi Michael. Funny how you don't address the points raised that show inconsistencies and insubstantialities in the Meier case.I can list plenty of those but let me just give you one for now.Gary Kinder discovered that an alleged picture taken by Mr Meier on one of his time travel trips was an exact duplicate of a picture from a magazine.(see The Supporter section on the main site) You may find this surprising but I think Mr Meier is an intelligent man.I think Mr Meiers case as a contactee is genuine.Why would I think that? Well,because Mr Meier can validate his case with photography,movie footage and eyewitnesses and as you are fond of mentioning accurate scientific information.I use these tools of measuring validity EQUALLY.That's why I also think Mr Adamski's case is genuine.As well as others since they also produced the goods.Mr Adamski had photographs,movies,eyewitnesses and accurate scientific information. -On his alleged space trip Adamski reported the 'Firefly phenomanon', free floating luminous particles in space.A decade later this was also reported by American and Russian astronauts. -While on a tour in the ship, one off Adamski's contactors gave an explanation off a device in the kitchen area.This device used 'rays' or high frequencies to cook meals.The host also mentioned that we were experimenting with it on Earth. Were there micro-wave ovens in the early 50's? Michael,when you do a radio show you'll highlight the Meier case by pointing out the pictures,the movies and the eyewitnesses.What you don't do is give the other cases the same OBJECTIVE treatment which is a sign of PREJUDICE and HYPOCRISY.No, you debunk the other cases because acknowledging those would mean that Mr Meier and the Plejarans are incorrect.That is the ISSUE. You set the standard high knowing quite well that the other cases didn't produce that much as the Meier case.Does that mean the other cases aren't of any value? Does that mean we should forget about them and concentrate solely on the Meier material? Does that give Billy and the Plejarans the right to debunk those cases? NO!!! The moment one relies solely on one source of information is the moment that source has aquired a huge ammount of CONTROL over you. Everything has to be judged equally and fairly. Since I can be objective I admit that there is accurate scientific information in the contact notes.My personal observation was that Ptaah was correct in stating that catholic priests commited sexual attrocities.This was years before it reached the public.Another correct piece of information given by Ptaah was the rise of Islamic fundamentalists,this was just after the first world trade center bombing but nonetheless accurate as we know today.Since I can be objective I also see information in the contact notes that is incorrect.Which I have presented more then once. Does having pieces off accurate scientific prophetic information make you automatically correct in every instance? NO! If I would start assuming that everything presented in the Meier case is correct, I wouldn't have to make my own conclusions.Somebody else would do it for me.Albert Einstein said "Allways Question The Knowledge".Wise words. You know what's the most ironic about the Meier case? It didn't really need to debunk other cases like Adamski.The Meier case could have easily held its own ground with the sum of its parts and perhaps even have done better admitting to other face to face contacts between people of the Earth and extra terrestials.The dismissal of other highly similar cases makes it that much more suspicious.But no,somebody wanted nothing less than the whole pie. Regards, TerraX | ||
Michael |
Terra X, A few things need to be answered like where is all the physical evidence you cite for the Adamski case? Has it undergone the same extensive, detailed scientific examination that Meier's has? Regarding my radio interviews and the ISSUE: I am not a researcher on any or all other alleged cases. No one seems to be out there representing those cases and presenting sufficient substantial evidence to authenticate them. It isn't my (self-appointed) job. Therefore, it isn't prejudice and hypocrisy, I have my hands full with something that has been shown to be conclusively authentic. And it's challenging enough to attempt to inform people about it. You could do the same thing with the Adamski case if you're so inclined...and if there's any substance to the case. So the ISSUE, as you perceive it, is not the issue at all. It's up to you or other Adamski "followers" if that is the right term, to make the case, PROVE it true and the critics (and the Plejarans) wrong. Part of what I think is the problem here is that you attribute certain motives to Billy and the Plejarans, and/or to me as a media representative, which are founded on your need to BELIEVE in the Adamski case. Knowledge supercedes belief, facts supercede speculation. If the Adamski case was proved to be true it wouldn't bother Plejarans, Billy or me for that matter, why should it? You attribute motivations to the Plejarans that aren't consistent with their demonstrable performance and dedication to humanity over AT LEAST the past 60 years with Billy. They aren't in possession of such fragile egos as you imply, obviously. It seems to me that you view this a little bit like someone who has a favorite sports team, baseball player or something similar. You want your "guy" to be recognized as whatever you BELIEVE him to be regardless of what the objective evidence/performance indicates. And, to carry out the comparison in this case, it's not even between little league and the majors, that would be overly generous because a little leaguer has the opportunity, and perhaps capacity, to become a major leaguer, they're both playing the same game. Until you can prove otherwise, all we have here is an imposter who could never be the real thing, he wasn't playing the same game at all. Except it appears that he was indeed playing a game. How many assassination attempts were there on Adamski's life? Why did he have a passport that allowed him almost diplomatic status when traveling? Why was he SO preoccupied with keeping FOLLOWERS? What trials and tribulations did he endure and overcome to bring long forgotten truths to mankind, so threatening to the powers that be that he would be a walking target like Billy? You're entitled to believe anything you want. If and when you, or someone else, can prove the truthfulness and reality of the Adamski case then it will be accepted as such. Of course, look at how long it's taking the Meier case to really be recognized and accepted, even with its enormous amount of proven, factual evidence, not even a tiny fraction of which can be found with Adamski, as your own attempt to present it above demonstrates. Finally, the Adamski case was always about...Adamski. The Meier case really isn't about him...it's about us, our survival, life itself and the spiritual teachings. The UFO part is the last on my list of interests. If the Adamski case were "proven" true tomorrow, would you rush to read every word again, would you hurry to tell everyone you knew that this was, indeed, the most important event in human history? And could you back it up with the material in his case? | ||
Jean Pierre Lagasse |
Hi all... WOW... I have been "avoiding" the forum over the last few days... almost afraid of what might be here. From what I've read above... I love this forum... I thoroughly enjoyed reading ALL the previous posts !! Many very fascinating points of view & thoughts... ALL totally valid within their own "framework"/"point of reference". I have no answers to all of this... but I could contribute thoughts to most/all points in the posts above. This would take me several days though... TerraX... Of all the things I could say... "...Mr Meier uses suggestive powers to make people see and experience things and thereby virtually obliviate the case?" This thought (& it's "derivatives") I've been waiting for anybody at all, to come up with this...! Interesting it was you... I tip my hat to you personally for this... for the thought/possibility alone !! I have wrestled with this for quite some time now... but have concluded that there is no way that Meier could have produced all these results by his own "mental/psychic" powers. It would take quite a while for me to write all this up though... but I will say (one point only for now) that Meier cannot have "produced" the Cayce info !!! Others also... Other people who I have respect for, have also (behind the scenes) been sending me info on the Adamski materials. Have you (TerraX) ever considered producing your own website on this??? I would be quite interested/fascinated in following any such effort... JamesTT.. I'm still waiting for your book !!! Overall... Much more I could say... but it strikes me that in any "true" community, a "broad spectrum" of thoughts must be represented. The posts above do represent this... I don't think there will be any way that we will ever reconcile all this stuff presently to everybody's satisfaction. I am very pleased though... (for whatever my thoughts are worth) to see ALL of you as part of this forum !!! Salome... & love you all Pierre | ||
E. Visser |
Hi Michael and JPL. JPL glad you liked it.I was a bit surprised by your post nonetheless.Perhaps I'll make my own website someday.I'm getting a sense for the dynamics but it's very diffecult to capture the right version. Hi Michael.First I want to compliment you on your well-written post.Would you still like to comment on the Gary Kinder finding? Or on the Asket picture? I'm asking this because those seem to fall out the Mission parameters and hint toward something else namely foul play. I want to make something clear which I hope will surprise you.I'm not an Adamski follower! Nor anyone elses for that matter.I'm on a personal study of the contactees in order to learn what the entire et phenomanon is all about. As far as I know Adamski never had an assasination attempt on his life.But then again he never openly critisized religion, the catholic church, Christians, Jews, homo-sexuals.Adamski never openly critisized institutions, charities like Greenpeace, government agencies and private companies.And Adamski didn't openly critisize individuals.Perhaps Adamski was wise enough not to do this since it has repurcussions.I think the bulk of assasination attempts on Mr Meier's life come from fanatic religious persons.These persons probably were so insulted to the core that they felt obliged and justified to kill.Lets face it, to say that one is the descendant of Christ doesn't really work in these times. Adamski's claims were in fact researched.His photographs were indeed analysed by prominents of the time.His metal sample was analysed which didn't show any abnormalities.This was also explained in his book if somebody cared to read it.The Adamski case right now is static and fixed simply because no new information comes from it. The Adamski case isn't the Meier case, plain and simple.We believe today in our world that all MAN are (created) equal.Why can't we do this with the contactee cases? The reason why I kept coming back to you on the board with the Adamski case is that from my perspective it has the fundamental right to be acknowledged.When I see the efforts by Billy and his various contacts in discrediting Adamski I get suspicious as to why that is.In contact note 34 Mr Meier makes conclusions concerning Adamski which Ptaah confirms with saying Billy being the only one sofar on this world who has done that.Look at this for a moment.Billy is in a position of power.He's a contactee with thousands of interested people who read his work.He knows people believe in him.After meeting Adamski he makes highly inflammatory remarks about Adamski's character even though he didn't understand a word of English and had someone else do the translation.This doesn't add up.At this point I start to doubt.Why would one make such a negative conclusion when one doesn't fully understand another.To me, it sounds like someone is biased and that an end justifies the means. Yes I start looking for motives when I see irregularities.In discrediting Adamski one would make his own case more prominent.What further arrouses my suspicion? The other high-profile contactee cases get the same treatment! Right now I simply have a plausible motive. The Adamski case wasn't really about Adamski.The Adamski case wasn't a Mission.The Adamski case was an introduction! Howard Menger had his first contact at the age of 10 in 1932.(but hey, what are similarities worth these days) Later on in time Howard Menger would claim to have met (the same) people from Venus, not the Venus we see but one that exists on a higher vibrational frequency.( Similarity...?,ok I'll quit doing that).Howard Menger toke photographs of a craft with the same characteristics as depicted in the Adamski case.He shot a film where you can see the same craft hovering over a forrest and make jerky pendulum movements.He has many eyewitnesses, not only people who saw the craft but also the extra terrestials themselves. Including his brother and his father.In this regard, the observation of the et's themselves, the Menger case does even better than Adamski. How many people can support the Meier case in observations of the Plejarans themselves? Call me stupid but when I see another contactee providing evidence which in turn supports the Adamski case I see a link and that's what I do. Howard Menger was the follow up off Adamski.I connect these two cases.Than you have something that packs a wallop. Did Howard Menger have phenomanol suggestive powers too??? Another one!? Good day, TerraX | ||
James the truthseeker |
Greetings TerraX, Just perhaps you're really onto something here concerning Adamski. We know that he had psychic suggestive hypnotic ablilities of which we should still find out where he acquired this. Nazis perhaps??? I just don't know at this time. We also know that there was some truth to this case as you justly point out because of the "other" photos of UFOs which campare to his, so in one form or another "real" UFOs where involved! OK, however I still agree with Billy that this case was "real" but did not actually involve Adamski in the direct way that he claimed it to be. Thus I can finally conclude that the only "Venusion" Adamski was actually in contact with was a woman by the name of "Madeline Rodeffer", because if you compare the UFO pics of Adamski's to that UFO later filmed (perhaps?) in the presence of Adamski with Rodeffer, sure you will see simularities in the photos, BUT, you will also see differences in variations concerning shape, color, etc, etc. When we allow ourselves to think in other direction for just a little, then perhaps Billy is "leading" us on to some more truths with his own truths. I sure look forward to talking with Rodeffer herself and I will surely bring you and Billy up later in the conversation. If you still disagree with me, then that's just yet another opinion. Peace, James the truthseeker | ||
Michael |
Hi TerraX, Thanks, glad you enjoyed it. If you are very familiar with the Meier material you know that there were problems, i.e. thefts, manipulations, etc. of and with some of Meier's photos and films which were acknowledged at various times by the Plejarans and subsequently Meier. You believe the Adamski case has a fundamental right to be acknowledged but you don't like that it's been acknowledged as a hoax. Perhaps you forget that there were a number of acknowledged genuine conscious or unconscious contactees, including some by the Plejarans. There were two ETs (I believe from the region of Alpha Centauri) who interacted briefly with a European man. There was the accidental encounter by Semjase with a woman in the Persian desert, the Daniel Fry contact, Einstein, etc. You attribute certain motives to their dismissal of Adamski yet you don't make the case for it, you cite anecdotal evidence and hearsay instead. You also dismiss the possibility raised by James and others that Adamski may have seen German craft. You want to cover his obvious and preposterous errors regarding a Venusian by making him other-dimensional when Adamski claimed he was quite physical and spoke to him in "space brother-ese", i.e. concocted nonsense conveyed in a normal voice. So you totally dismiss the possibility that the Adamski matter is a hoax and believe instead that it's been the victim of a vast space-wing conspiracy. Why? It must be that Meier and the Plejaran are jealous of this astounding man and his success and followers! You claim the motive is that Meier's in a "position of power" and that "people believe in him." If you had ANY idea of what the man has been through in order to do this work you would laugh at your own comments. I've tried to make certain points to you and to require you to make the case for Adamski, which you certainly haven't done by the standards that need to be applied and which Meier more than meets. So, in my opinion, this is about what the Adamski matter means to you and, as I hinted in my last post, some kind of an emotional belief-based matter. You want your "guy" to get the credit you feel he deserves. And if he doesn't there are dark motives behind it. You even question whether it's possible for a person to not trust someone who's language he doesn't fully understand. Have you ever walked down a dark street, through a crowd, ridden on a subway or found yourself around people who made you feel uneasy...even if you DIDN'T speak with each other? Is it possiible, considering Billy's background and life experiences with all kinds of people, in many different countries, in many different situations, that Billy might have read the man's character correctly and that you, who DIDN'T meet Adamski, might be incorrect? Let me also give you this example. There are many things in the Meier material that are, so far, speculation as far as I'm concerned. They haven't been proven, even though some of them may make perfect sense or seem likely they still have to be regarded as speculative. That's fine with me because the overwhelming body of conclusive proof authenticates the case. Billy Meier has had contacts with people who are not from this world, who have provided him with physical evidence and evidence that meets an even higher standard, that substantiates his claims. I can prove that. Now the questions are: what do we do with it and what does it mean to us? Does it mean that everything in the case is true? No, we don't KNOW that to be so. Would I be inclined to accept most of the information and not be surprised if and when it's proven to be true? Yes. But there's a lot of info that I DON'T want to be proven true. It has to do with what's going on in the world RIGHT NOW and in the near future. As I see it, the Plejarans (whoever they may be) and Billy Meier have gone to a lot of trouble over 6 DECADES to attempt to warn and inform humanity in a way that does not negate our free will. They have attempted to insert information into our world in a somewhat oblique manner, noentheless at great peril to Meier himself. That many of the attempted assassinations may have been by religiously oriented people doesn't mean that Meier's information was wrong or that he shouldn't have been saying what he has said. Obviously the risks of speaking out against religious delusions, and providing much heretofore unknown background on the religions, is a dangerous and thankless job. There's a huge difference between someone who does what Meier has taken on to do and someone who makes questionable claims and troubles himself with gathering followers. Ultimately, since it appears you're not going to get a retraction and "correction" from the Plejarans or Meier regarding Adamski (and this is an "old" matter to them as the dates of the discussions about it will confirm) you have to extract whatever meaning you can from your passion about Adamski and either use it for your own benefit or find a way to convey it to others that contributes something to their understanding. You are also in the funny position of making the Plejarans/Meier authorities on the matter because you are accepting the truth and reality of their existence and information, though you are unhappy with what they say in this matter. | ||
E. Visser |
Hi Michael. Your last paragraph is more or less correct.I don't deny Mr Meiers contacts.Its too much work for one man or he had too work for his case 24 hours a day like a man posessed.I don't consider the Plejarans/Billy the authorities, they want to be the authority.Why do I say that? Well because that's what you basicly get when you effectively debunk similar contactee cases.That would be the result, you would be the only one left with a genuine case.Michael have you noticed just how many contactees with a similar face to face scenario and interaction get called a hoax,fraud and liar? Almost exclusively! I can't find anyone with a similar case and I don't mean the 'Grey" type scenario.I mean the contacts between us Earth people and human looking ET's.Lets take a look at the list I have discovered so far from the availible information to me. -George Adamski.(We've widely discussed this one) -Howard Menger.From a reply on the board I was notified this man was a deceiver.I haven't come across a contact note as to why this man was judged negatively but from Mr Meiers reply I can roughly guess that this was a hoaxer and perhaps he, like Adamski, influenced people which I still find a lot off BS. -Jerrold Baker.One of Adamski's witnesses to the craft besides that I don't know any of his claims. -C.A. Anderson.I don't know if this name applies to C.A. Honey who was an Adamski witness. -Roberta Brooks.Couldn't find any information. -R.O. Schmidt.Claimed to have been inside a ufo and met its occupants.Claimed that the ufonauts spoke German. -Amaury Rivera.Claims to be a contactee.Holds meditation meetings.Promotes healthy diet, no alcohol, no smoking.Even promotes spirituality but all these things still didn't hold Ptaah and Billy back to label this man a fraud without further explanation. -Fred Bell.I think you know this one. -Lee Elders.I think you know this one. -Karl Michalek.Couldn't find any information. -Orfeo Angelucci.Claimed to be a contactee.What striked me about his story was his total honesty.Quite frankly I see no apperent reason as to why this was a hoax.His story didn't hurt anyone in the slightest.His contactors did speak about a Creator, perhaps that was enough. -Harushi Tsukamoto.Couldn't find any information. -Ed Walters.Claimed to be a contactee.While his photographs are questioned his movies are of quality and challenging. -Claude Vorilhon.Claimed to be a contactee.Has no supporting evidence but has a large group of followers mostly due to an atheistic and (perhaps more attractive) erotic philosify. -Carlos Diaz.Claimed to be a contactee.Provided amazing photographs of plasma ships.Gets called a hoaxer. -Dan fry.Claimed to be a contactee.Wait,I know this man was labeled genuine but look what happens in the contact notes.Dan Fry was genuine BUT his photographs were falsified and attributed to him.The origins of the ET's thoroughly distorted which basicly gives you the same result as debunking it because nothing is left to validate if I were to believe the contact notes.Or did the origins of the ET's not correspond with the contact notes? Now, I have left out many other contactees like your old time buddy Alex Collier simply because I didn't find a reference in the contact notes if they were a fraud or genuine and as you should know by now the latter is very hard to come by. Did the Mission intent to debunk other cases? Yes,first contact note,right beside the spreading of the Creational teachings. Pretty high on the agenda, wouldn't you say? Too convenient, which seems to be a reoccuring factor.In debunking, the Meier case conveniently gets dominance in its particular area.This is simple logic which I fear a 'Meier follower' wouldn't see. | ||
Michael |
Hi TerraX, Similar contactee cases? I know of no similar cases to Meier's, the ones you refer to don't qualify in the least. And that includes the Fry case, though it is said to be genuine by the Plejarans, albeit with altered photos that they don't seem to be accusing him of. But there is, again, no body of material sufficient to provide us with the abundant content, and intent, of the Plejarans. And to return to the Adamski matter for a brief moment, he gives himself away as a fraud by virtue of what he has written in his own book. His alleged conversations with the "master" are nothing but astro-babble and not even particularly good sci-fi. He refers to the Venusians as flesh and blood human creatures, not other-dimensionals as you stated and he speaks about Saturnian beings and their ships. May I suggest you champion something just a wee bit more credible? And you are still troubled by the debunking of other people and their "cases". Please consider that if Adamski represents the cream of the crop of such cases to you...the whole crop is indeed spoiled and the Plejarans have simply told the truth. Instead of some dark conspiracy to protect their power or egos as you suggest it is more likely a case of them dismissing the easily dismissable and having the authority and vantage point from which to do so. Now, instead of complaining about that, and since you have placed the Adamski matter on the top of the heap, please either prove its authenticity or move on. | ||
nonesuch |
Michael, I know what TerraX is getting at. As you know, Wendell Stevens published many books on his investigations into UFOs and contact. These books are very clear and honest in approach. They are also filled with high quality photos of UFOs. The people he interviewed seemed honest - sometimes quite frightened. I also know from other books I've read concerning contactees that many were sincere people. The point is that the Plejarans and Meier are not truthful when they say these are all hoaxes. Furthermore, the Plejarans and Meier say that all cattle mutilation cases are secret government organizations or animals. This is also plainly not true. I say 'plainly' not because I have 'evidence' that you always ask for, but simply that it does not look to be the work of animals - and no earth agency has the ability to do what is reported around these cases - just reasoning (and intuition). So, you may continue to insist that the PJs are real - fine - but I doubt that they are the honest benefactors you take them for. Let's talk about deception. nonesuch. | ||
E. Visser |
Hi Michael. I've made my points concerning Adamski over and over even in relation to other cases and in the grander scheme of things and I'll grant your request bye going away on ONE CONDITION.Since I am an open minded and fair guy I'll use your standards namely ACCURATE SCIENTIFIC PROOF BEYOND A DOUBT. The condition is: ACCURATELY SCIENTIFICLY PROOF TO ME BEYOND A DOUBT THAT THE TALMUD OF JMMANUEL IS GENUINE. If you can do that I will know that every word spoken by Mr Meier and the Plejarans was the TRUTH.I'll retract all my claims concerning the contactees and in particular Adamski.I will know than that I have been blasphemous and in debt. Regards, TerraX | ||
Norm |
This page sums up Adamski. Why I can say that Adamski was a liar By Marc Hallet http://www.ufo.se/english/articles/adamski.html | ||
Michael |
TerraX, Yikes! I certainly didn't mean that you should go away, just move, on as in to another topic. So let's address your request. The best answer I have is for you to visit Jim Deardorff's site and check out his extensive research, comparison and analysis. See: http://www.proaxis.com/~deardorj/ But even if you find that the TJ is genuine that would not be a good reason to take everything said by Meier or the Plejarans as truth. I think you would want to check it out and see if it is true for yourself, wherever possible. I think there are some things that make the likelihood of authenticity very high in the TJ but why don't we see what you think of Jim's research first. Also, please understand that I've encountered a lot of opposition over the years to my conclusion that the Meier case is genuine. Some of it came from family and friends and, ultimately, it made me work harder in researching the case so that I could make better and more convincing presentations to those who were skeptical. I even have a family member who used to ridicule me about my interest in the case, who now is rather supportive of my efforts. So don't give up on what you think is right and true, just be prepared to prove it if challenged. | ||
Michael |
Nonesuch, The Plejarans have said that there are a certain number of genuine contacts of one form or another but that THEY don't contact anyone but Meier. While we know that the cases Wendelle has documented are very interesting, can we be sure that they are all necessarily ET cases and not something similar to the German UFO cases? I don't think we can say for certain who or what they are...yet. People can be absolutely sincere and still be incorrect or have been fooled. I have absolutely nothing against other real cases. But, again, my focus really isn't on the UFO/ET aspect of it, interesting as that is. I am most interested in if the information is credible and what it means to us if it is. Regarding the Plejarans being the honest benefactors, I think there is certainly enough evidence that if any outside force has tried to assist us it's them. What more do we want or need from people that don't even live here, for goodness sakes?!?!?! We shouldn't be looking for perfection and flawless beings who have nothing better to do than to conform to OUR idea of how they should behave. It simply isn't a mature position for humanity to take. And the very fact that so much has been given to us and so little has been done with it should be proof enough that it isn't the Plejarans that we should be complaining about...it's our own species. I just wish everybody could really get this one point: If the Meier contact case is true it's the single most important event in human history. And if the information in the case is accurate, especially the stuff that deals with these times and the near future, we should forget all the nitpicking and do everything we can to move mass consciousness in a more positive direction. If we are able to introduce the Meier case in a way that assists that movement all the better. | ||
Michael |
P.S. Y'all, Check out that Adamski article Norm put up the link to. It should gently close that discussion once and for all. | ||
James the truthseeker |
Message error & corrections are now made to next post. Thanks, James the truthseeker | ||
James the truthseeker |
Greetings TerraX and Nonsuch, It seems that both of your are still missing the point concerning Billy and other UFO cases. Michael is correct in that Billy's case has the most detailed and urgent of all information ever giving to humanity. Perhaps you're just not ready for this kind of "accurate" information and need more simple terms and explainations such as the word "Christ" in place the the word "Nokodemjon", etc. Nonsuch, you seem to fail to relize and recognize that government agencies and groups such as Lockheed Martain, etc, actually have things which they will not reveal publicly for a very long time to come. A group called NIDS has already provin that such was involved concerning cattle mutilations. Perhaps you are personally involved here and have good reason to keep these cattle mutilations a secret. Perhaps the government is doing this out of concern for the "made cow disease" and therefore do not want to panic the people of this global killer. TerraX, it seems you're still missing the point concerning Billy and the Plejarans definition of something or someone labled as fraud. Example: I seem to remember the Plejarans saying that Carlos Diaz was a fraud, yet later saying his photos where real. Now why do you suppose that is??? I could give you several reasons but will leave you to think it over instead. Peace, James the truthseeker | ||
E. Visser |
Hi all. Michael I appologise if I misunderstood you.You know what guys, I'm gonna be honest which I hope you wont take to your full advantage in a split second. Did Adamski have a big ego? Yes probably.He liked the spotlights.Wasn't afraid to do lectures.He was a ladiesman.Did Adamski falsify pictures? His telescope series are genuine, his later pictures of 'ship to ship' with the faces are probably not.Why do I say that? In his book he makes his farewells to his contactors in the last few chapters and suddenly they return for better pictures.In all likelyhood Adamski forged the latter pictures to bolster his claims.The same can perhaps be said off Mr Meier.Gary Kinder found out that one of Billy's so called pictures of a time travel trip came straight out of a magazine.The Asket pictures came straight of a television which were attributed to the workings off the MiB.If for a moment you accept the MiB as a valid excuse without any proof for there existence you should more than readily accept other claims with more evidence. I read Marc Hallet report before and commented on it.I've read another report which showed that initially Mr Hallet was an Adamski supporter but because of the distortions in the Adamski case he turned into a debunker.Mr Hallet is to the Adamski case as to what Kal Korff is to the Meier case and this I find phenomanol.One debunker gets the go-ahead and one debunker must be stopped. Do both the Adamski and Meier case show irregularities? Yes and plenty off it.This is for the people to decide.What's phenomanol again is that the Meier case gets the 'softening' circumstances treatment and others do not.I see more than one way that conveniently or not makes Billy the authority. Why don't I dismiss the Adamski case? Simply because something is there.I have allways connected Adamski to Menger.In my question to Mr Meier I combined these cases in the first place.For me Adamski and Menger are unseperable and together they pack a wallop.One could attribute perhaps some negative character traits to Adamski which, in my book isn't the task for another contactee to do but Menger has an impecable character. Do you people realise that Mr Meier's character is just as vulnerable as Adamski's was? I'm not gonna list as to why that is.That would be pure debunking.I am gonna say that if one would set his or her tasks on that, one would probably be successfull. Michael.Both our individual definitions of a 'contactee' are irreconcilable.You have your version and I have mine.We could keep this up till we are both blue in the face.Lets give it a rest for now.I'm gonna order a few books which I hope will lead me to more insights. Regards, TerraX | ||
Norm |
Korff, was never a supporter of Meier. If he states that he's lying to make the public think he's an objective researcher! | ||
nonesuch |
MH, a word about Mormons. I too wish the Meier case was stripped down to its essence. One of the things I liked about the 50s contacts was that the aliens had a very simple message: "Stop using nuclear power - your environment is in danger." Very authentic. You might think I am being funny here, but I recommend that FIGU do what the Mormon Church did long ago. Actually, the case is very similar as far as I'm concerned, only instead of aliens you have 'heavenly beings, angels and prophets' appearing to a sincere young person - Joseph Smith. You also have witnesses (some of whom also saw these beings) and the 'golden plates' and other artifacts that were also seen by others. The message given to Smith was "the Christian church has got it all wrong - here is the real Jesus message." Sound familiar? Now Smith started out with a simple message and reasonable proof that he did not make it all up. Solid people believed him. But later Smith went on to doctrines that were very hard, very dividing in his community - he introduced the idea of polygamy, 'retranslated' the old testament and new testament, speculated on obscure things in the past, made way too many predictions, and went deep into cosmology - including the planet God lived on - cosmology that tried to explain the Egyptian religion and all sorts of nonsense. Furthermore, his one simple bit of evidence, The Book of Mormon, had a racist component. In it God's people were more 'white' than the others. Also, blacks had 'the curse of Cain' over them and were not allowed to hold the priesthood. Does any of this sound familiar? Anyway - here is how the Mormons regrouped and became the richest and fastest growing Church - also, they are now considered 'normal, balanced people' despite the bizarre doctrines from their past: OK, they just rewrote stuff and got rid of 'confusing and challenging' material. For instance, they rewrote all the passages in the Book of Mormon that said "white" and made it instead "lightsome" - made it a spiritual trait and not a skin color. They got rid of polygamy and never mention it. Then they just removed or watered down 'weird doctrines.' They went back to basics and refused to talk about anything else. This is my recommendation to FIGU: go back to basics, change wording in the TJ like 'castration,' remove parts of contact notes that have not been confirmed, remove high or weird speculation, simplify your message. I am serious about that. Really, Michael I see you doing this and I think you are on the right track, but the organization has got to rethink the material they put out. I also think you tend to be a little cantankerous at times and should take the high road like you sort of feel sorry for those who don't see. Try it you'll like it. nonesuch (the smoking man) | ||
Jean Pierre Lagasse |
Hi all... I just finished reading Adamski's "Inside the Space Ships" 1955. (I can't believe I read the whole thing...) To start, We are not all on the same "wavelength". What is important to some of us, is not even recognized by others among us. That is to be expected and we all need to somehow respect each other in spite of this. I can only state my way of seeing this... It's my turn to hold the "talking stick"... so to speak. Overall, there are no significant (new) info/concepts in what I've read. There is nothing at stake here... so it's irrelevant to me whether the Adamski case is valid or not. I could poke massive holes in this data... beyond the "Marc Hallet" comments. " I could see definite indications that, on the side which we see from Earth, at one time there must have been plenty of water. Zulu said, ?There is still plenty on the other side, as well as much hidden deep within the mountains on this side.? He then pointed out to me, up on the flanks of the mountains surrounding the craters, definite traces of ancient water lines. True, some of the craters had been formed by meteorites hitting the Moon?s surface, but in every such case, these craters showed definite funnel bottoms. And as I studied the magnified surface of the Moon upon the screen before us, I noticed deep ruts through the ground and in some of the imbedded rock, which could have been made in no other way than by a heavy run-off of water m times past. In some of these places there was still a very small growth of vegetation perceptible. Part of the surface looked fine and powdery, while other portions appeared to consist of larger particles similar to coarse sand or fine gravel. As I watched, a small animal ran across the area I was observing. I could see that it was four-legged and furry, but its speed prevented me from identifying it. Little of what I was seeing was strange to me, because for years I had been thinking and talking about it in much this way. The Saturnian appeared aware of this, for he stated that it was partly for this reason they had decided to give me this close view now. He promised that, at some later date, they would show me the other side of our Moon. ?This, too,? he added, ?will not be too different from the way you have imagined it.? " I think the above in itself is enough to discredit pretty much anything else said by Adamski... His descriptions of forests etc. on Venus & any associated comments would be redundant at this point. Also... " Little of what I was seeing was strange to me, because for years I had been thinking and talking about it in much this way. " The above gives a methology or context to how he might have come up with all this... False memory syndrome is a nasty thing... the more someone thinks on anything, the "more real" it becomes. After "enough" of this, a person would not be able to differentiate between "reality" & "his own mental fantasies". I now have a doc file on similar observations... these include "jesus" etc. Overall... very vague stuff. The lack of detail (or scientifically verifiable info) is remarkable, except of course, for how the space women looked/dressed. This is all similar to the "general" style of a lot of supposed "channeled" stuff I've heard... this observation being interesting in itself. The website is particularly bad... the info has blended a curious mixture of "bible thumping talk" with his supposed et contacts etc. This is in total contrast to anything which Jim Deardorff has put out... or any form of Eastern thought. There is "no comparison whatsoever" between the Meier info and anything which Adamski has put out. This particular Adamski writing was done in 1955. This is 10 years after Cayce's death... The references to Creation & Natural law are perhaps from a mis-understood rendition of Cayce's works??? Makes me wonder whether Adamski had ever read or heard of anything done by Cayce... Adamski had his place in the "sequence" of things though. He seems to have been important for a lot of people to open their minds a (tiny) bit, to the possibility that ET's etc. exist. Myself... I think Scott Baxter summed it up pretty well in that Adamski is similar to other "intermediate writings" which I became involved with & "left" when I "outgrew" these. At least, this is my interpretation of what I think Scott B. said. I am still most curious, however, how someone can even begin to give Adamski any amount of credibility... that, for myself, is the most interesting thing here ! This is making me "look into my past" when I was involved/interested in Carlos Castaneda etc. hmmm... A personal study of "human nature" & the way in which I/We think. If anybody wants an email copy of the above Adamski writing, please contact me through personal email. Regards, JP | ||
Jean Pierre Lagasse |
"...go back to basics, change wording in the TJ like 'castration,' remove parts of contact notes that have not been confirmed, remove high or weird speculation, simplify your message." There is a thorough lack of understanding in the "Plejaran message" here... It's not so much "FIGU's information" or even "Billy's"... What the Plejarans (etc.) have said needs to be preserved EXACTLY as is, no matter what we think of it. I really don't want to have to "interpret past" any alterations performed on what was communicated. Stevens' translations (as they are) are bad enough... I'm not even going to mention the Bible, eh? Mr. Nonesuch... you are trying to place us into the same situation which produced all/most of the "mistakes" performed in the past. ...By introducing our own personal ideas/concepts into phenomena... & even "covering our tracks" (altering the writings) in the process. By your own words... I really have to restate a previous questions I asked... what are you trying to do on this forum??? Regards, JP | ||
James the truthseeker |
Greetings Nonesuch, First of all concerning the Mormons, you are actually on the right track. In fact there is more to Joseph Smith and Billy Meier then you and many other people may realize! BUT what you're proposing is that Michael and FIGU turn all their information into a CULT! and another sectarian Religion. I DON"T THINK SO!!! that kind of THINKING is not going to get you anywhere here on this forum or with FIGU. Soul-Paul already did that with prophet Jmmanuel and the same has happened with the prophet Mohammed. Perhaps we should all hold YOU further responsible for the mess the Earth is already in. We are trying to make this planet a better place and you're sure not helping the situation! The purpose of FIGU is to get all the FACTS straight once and for all and if people are not ready for that then they should not be on this forum in the first place as there are plenty of other sectarian cults and religions to choose from. Peace in wisdom, James the truthseeker | ||
Jean Pierre Lagasse |
Reminds me of a Star-Trek episode in which Captain Kirk stuck Harry Mudd on that planet populated with nothing but androids... as an example to them of what to avoid/"not to be" !!! Mind you, he also produced 500+ copies of Harry's ex-wife also... (that wasn't so good... ) Perhaps Nonesuch is "playing into" this role??? I'm still trying to figure out what Nonesuch is trying to do on this forum...?!?!? Just a silly thought... JP | ||
nonesuch |
JPL, JTS and others, Yes, I'm like Captain Kirk and you're like the androids. You don't understand the nature of Reality. That is why you can't understand me. This Meier's thing has happened many time before. That is why I bring up the Mormons as a fitting example. Billy's accounting of history and other things he says are absurd - they come out of his subconscious mind. Some of it is true. I'm just telling you that if you continue to print out everything Billy has to say, you will find that it will continue to become so ridiculous that no sane person will believe any of it. So, I'm just trying to help you. You think I am playing with you, but you discount all the times the PJs have played with you! How about them flying their beamships in a swaying motion so that PEOPLE MAY DOUBT that the movie footage is real??!!?? And this is designed to provoke controversy! You'd think they would help establish some solid proof beyond reasonable doubt - beyond question - in the presence of multiple witnesses. Then you'd think they wouldn't talk about things that make you look silly. Most of all, you wouldn't expect them to LIE - which they do. Doubt and mystery is THEIR game. They MUST remain in the shadows. You wonder about MY game; what is THEIR game? Why do you buy into it without questions? nonesuch. | ||
Michael |
Nonesuch, YOU'd think they would do this and YOU'D think they would do that... No, but apparently YOU think that THEY should do this or that, this way or that way because, of course, you know what "Reality" is. Gee, once again, those poor stupid ETs just don't know what they're doing and poor ol' Billy's trying to start another religion just like has happened "many times before". Good thing you've really researched and thought through the thousands of pages of material so you could tell us all so conclusively what's really going on here. Perhaps you could do an even greater service by going to Switzerland and letting all the poor deluded people over there know what's really going on and how it SHOULD be. Since this "reality" doesn't fit you expectations surely you will show the Plejarans, and everyone else concerned, just how it SHOULD, in your enlightened perspective, REALLY be. Breathlessly, we await! | ||
James the truthseeker |
JUST perhaps Nonesuch, we have a good reason to buy into their(PLEJARAN) games. Quite frankly, I LOVE IT! ALL OF IT!, and if you're so concerned about us or perhaps your own self importance then leave us alone to our oun beliefs and understandings and we well leave you to yours. Such intolerance of other peoples beliefs ideas etc, wheather it be real or not is what creates wars, murder, bloodshed etc, and "IF" thats the kind of thing you enjoy, then perhaps you should go to the middle east and pic a side. If you don't like what the plejarans are saying, then perhaps all of us at FIGU should leave Earth with the Plejarans on UFOs to live a more fulfilling existence elswhere while the rest of humanity along with yourself can go down with the ship in one final "nuclear world war III". Once humanity is gone and destroyed itself then perhaps you don't have to warry about us anymore. And yes it is so that other people like Billy have come into being such as Jmmanuel, Joseph Smith, Mohammed, Enoch, etc; just as other people continually try to make it into a religion. If you want Billy and FIGU to leave the planet, then why don't you get a world wide compain going for the Plejarans to pic us up, as I for one would gladly leave here with them along with all my good friends. LOOK around you Nonesuch! The Earth is going down like the Titanic and you're going down with it!!! Cosmic Amnesty!, For what it's worth! James the truthseeker | ||
nonesuch |
James the 'spoof'seeker, Whenever a talented but egotistical person starts seeing angels, ghosts, gods or E.Ts - and then takes it upon himself to 'save' humanity with the 'channeled' teachings from these mythical fantasies - he has already started a 'religion' whether he calls it that or not. These people all suppose they are very advanced beings from regions 'beyond the Petale level,' ("we shouldn't speak of this"), but really they are no different from anyone else. That is, no different from anyone else who has a Napoleon complex. Where is there anything new with this pattern? It is just that nowadays instead of leprechauns we have intergalactic lesbian redheads in tight suits. nonesuch (the smoking man) | ||
Michael |
Nonesuch, I for one do not know how talented you are nor am I criticizing you for being egotistical and trying to "save" humanity with whatever channeled teachings or belief systems you have. I just think that being angry and randomly attacking things you are not well versed in is a sign of childish immaturity. I do suggest that you try to discipline yourself enough to become familiar with the available material, so as to discuss it LOGICALLY and intelligently, and/or simply get on with discovering who or what you're REALLY angry with. Indulging your infantile, ill-informed ranting is demonstrably pointless. | ||
nonesuch |
MH, I'll scroll your message: (MH)" I for one do not know how talented you are nor am I criticizing you for being egotistical and trying to "save" humanity with whatever channeled teachings or belief systems you have." --(NS) I never set out to publish my teachings, so I can't be the one who is trying to 'save' anyone. (MH) "I just think that being angry and" --(NS) again, how can I be angry and amused at the same time?  (MH)" randomly attacking things you are not well versed in is a sign of childish immaturity." --(NS) half of the time I am defending myself, not attacking - and never randomly. I am more versed in your case than you assume. (MH)" I do suggest that you try to discipline yourself enough to become familiar with the available material," --(NS) I've read all of Steven's Contact Notes many years ago. I've read Light Years. I've unfortunately read the TJ, and I have many pamphlets from FIGU. (MH) "so as to discuss it LOGICALLY and intelligently, and/or simply get on with discovering who or what you're REALLY angry with." --(NS) I've noticed from the members of your church that everything you don't want to hear is anger. Anything you care not to discuss is illogical. Is that what you mean? (MH) "Indulging your infantile, ill-informed ranting is demonstrably pointless." --(NS) I only point out what is absurd - such as the TJ position on castration. No one cares to try to defend it; instead you say this is 'ranting.' Why don't you instead really try to defend some of these weird doctrines and beliefs instead of implying that I am infantile? nonesuch (the smoking man) | ||
Jean Pierre Lagasse |
Hi Nonesuch... You alone know the meaning of truth and reality, and you also know what is best for all of us. You can even rewrite history itself into it's "correct" form, so that we all won't be sidetracked by irrelevant issues. If we had any brains at all, we would do what you say we should... so that we would have credibility in other people's eyes and especially so the Plejarans would not make us look silly. Not only that, but we should all recognize that Meier's info does not have any special significance whatsoever compared to any and all other (really) real UFO contacts... And in this, you only wish what is best for us and are only helping us see the light !!! Perhaps then... "we" can rise from obscurity & take our rightful place !?!? But... only if we put the Plejarans back into their rightful place (in the shadows). Did I miss anything... or... do you have any further instructions??? JP | ||
nonesuch |
JPL my good man, I really don't have a grudge against Billy Meier. Not at all. You'd find my position on everything is sort of the same. It is all a similar pattern to me. For instance, for the past 100 years nothing was as sure, as logical, as defendable, as provable, as scientific as Einstein's 'speed of light.' The speed of light is a constant, unchanging thing everywhere, of this all scientists for a 100 years were all agreed. Yet now suddenly we are seeing that this may not be so. If I'd lived a 100 years ago and knew what I know now I would have told you that his theory would fail, as all theories will continue to fail - forever. There is no existing theory now that will not change and continue to change. There is no getting to the 'truth' of anything - there is only temporary consensus. Is that what you are after? There is no point in time when you will know all the secrets of the universe - there is no such evolution. Whoever teaches such a thing is false. There is only one thing that is true, and that one thing is a great mystery - and the only thing that will not change. So, you may think that Billy or the PJs have a higher knowledge of things than you do. Their knowledge may be useful or not depending on your situation, but IT WILL NOT make you evolve as a spiritual being, and IT WILL NOT provide the ultimate answers you seek on anything. In fact, it is a great distraction from real knowledge. Perhaps it makes some people think - if it does that than it does some good. But I see that all of you are very inflexible, indoctrinated, opinionated, even angered at me for questioning you. You may say that I am inflexible, but I used to be like you, so I have changed. To me all churches are the same; they are a temporary distraction from getting to know yourself. Everything that takes you away from knowing right now that you are presently beyond the Petale level is a lie. It is because your mind is jumbled by your ego that you do not see who you are. nonesuch (the smoking man) | ||
Lars |
Hi Nonesuch I care to defend the TJ's position on castration. TJ.12 advises castration for people who have lost their self control over their reproductive organs Castration was practiced anciently on earth and by many alien societies , and was performed as an act of mercy for the concerned creatures, because those creatures could'nt and would'nt control their sexual drives. So because they could'nt control their desires they gradually became unfit to support themselves,and in short-order they became incompetents... Thus they became a burden to their fellowmen and dependents, not to mention they developed extremely irrational thinking and feeling tendecies, which caused discords and contentions. thus due to these extremely negative and unpleasant factors, Councils arose which deliberated and advised that castration of such miserably degenerated and hostile creatures should be undertaken, and that through castration relief would be afforded to the sexually uncontrolled degenerates, and that through the loss of their sex they could finally start to think and reason properly, without being fixated always on sex! This was the only reason why castration was performed it was done in order to provide a space for atonement and curing, and so that the spirit form in those degenreated bodies might evolve to a higher level than they were at before the castration. Thus it is seen that castration had a spiritual improvement factor back of it's intention. regards, Lars | ||
Jean Pierre Lagasse |
"...Everything that takes you away from knowing right now that you are presently beyond the Petale level is a lie..." If I understand you correctly this time: If we think (& do) as you think we "should"... we can bypass all forms of physical/mental evolution and "be above" even the Petale level itself??? Only because you mentioned it...: What ARE you smoking??? JP | ||
nonesuch |
Lars, Torture is mercy? You must be Jewish. Sounds like something in the Devil's book: The Bible. A big sex drive doesn't make you incompetent. When I was young I loved to be with as many girls as possible. Sometimes I lived with them. One was a millionaire. I did pretty good with my sex drive. Without a sex drive people wouldn't bother doing lots of things. Can you image castrating somebody? Smashing the testicles? Wake up and smell the coffee! That's totally insane. You religious types really frighten me with all your justifications to hurt people. Any so-called prophet who could recommend such a thing is a cave man. People tell me, "Well that's what Jmmanuel had to say because that was what people did back then." That's crazy. Was he advanced or not? Why not make the same argument and advocate hanging retarded prisoners since "that is how we do it today." If they wanted to do away with a man's sex drive all they needed to do was have him get married. ha ha nonesuch. | ||
Michael |
Nonesuch, Oh, you read Stevens' Contact Notes! Great! You really ARE an expert on the case. No wonder we don't have a clue. It's funny that for a guy who abhors churches and accuses us of "having" one you seem completely unable to yank yourself away from here. Gosh, if only we could help you out by excommunicating we...wouldn't...'cause, well, there's no church here. One huge difference I see between you and other people that post here, pro or con, is your huge anger (which you deny.) You say you're amused, smiling, the kind of passive-aggressive stuff that I used to see in a lot of condescending hippie-New Agers who KNEW they were more "spiritual" than everybody else. The reason why I for one don't rush to defend any and every bit of info in the material is that I simply don't know whether all of it is true and accurate or not. I don't NEED to have it all be perfect, nor do I need my understanding of it all to be perfect, in order for me to continue to THINK about it, research and ultimately draw the best conclusions I can. As far as the TJ goes, why not also mention the Prophecy section and ponder or explain how a document written 2,000 years ago, and discovered in 1963, contains information regarding warfare conducted with nuclear and chemical/biological missles, something which has only recently become a possibility, as well as war centering around greed for the oil of the Earth? And, if the TJ disturbs you, is it because you think it's a hoax or because you argue with its content? If you think it's a hoax I'm sure you have a ready explanation how, WHY and by whom it was done. People who've been heavily into the guru trips, Eastern religions, "enlightenment", etc., as well as fanatics of other religions, have all the answers. We don't. We don't have a guru either. If, by chance, the man Billy Meier has contributed a huge amount to the understanding of a wide array of material, I am grateful for that. You're angry about it, perhaps because it tampers with all your guru stuff. Maybe you're so invested in your point of view that it drives you crazy to even contemplate that there's something more, and that it could contain even more relvant and accurate information than you would LIKE it to. Maybe. How will you know if you don't start taking an inventory of yourself and YOUR beliefs instead of just attacking what you feel threatened by. All of us here, if we're honest, could attest to how depressing it can be to see where we're REALLY at on the evolutionary scale. I speak from my own experience. No one forces you to have anything to do with this though, of course, you're welcome to interact. But there is something dishonest in trying to portray yourself as someone who is elevating the level of understanding and simply being a good devil's advocate when your palpable anger is what drives you on. It seems to me that when your case of Eastern enlightenment-guruitis didn't floor everybody with its trancendental overtones you lost your veneer of detached superiority and exposed your underlying mean-spirited contempt for those who didn't get just what an "evolved" being you are. You're not alone in being angry, it's a big part of the human condition and, whether rooted in genetic manipulation, or just a part of the evolutionary process, we "angry" humans clearly demonstrate why truly more evolved beings COULDN'T be in our presence or interact freely with us. A lot of us are trying to create, or cooperate in, communities based on true humanness and spiritual values. In doing so we face the challenges of coming face to face with our own shortcomings, anger and actual state of evolution and figuring out how to work together. This requires shared values and committment, not shared beliefs. If someone wants to hold themself out to be a "spiritual sniper", guru or an agent provacateur they are less likely to be trusted as being motivated to contribute to the good of the whole. If that is what drives you on it will ultimately drive you away from others who are moving in a different, more cooperative direction, one that doesn't require group think or "true believers". | ||
Lars |
Nonesuch, You obviously are presently incapable of understanding and respecting higher spiritual law. regardles of how fancy you phrase your eastern Indian swami views. about castration being barbaric and painful? in all probability castration as performed by the ancient Plejaren races and Jews, was performed as humanely and decently as possible and the reciepient of it was afforded anasthesia. From your words you seem to have completely overlooked or neglect the reason why castration was performed? A. For mental and spiritual improvement of the creature B. And to afford relief and curtail insane wild uncontrolled discord in the creature. Now, for those who think they can make spiritual improvement and consequently physical and mental improvemnt ,while still indulging in wild sexual desires? let them try, and see what reality evolves for them after a year or two. History proves that all societies that succumbed to the pleasures of the body, later became entirely eaten up and destroyed by those same pleasures, because the SIN of lust breeds laziness, tiredness, discord, irrationality,complaint, contention, irresponsibilty, shifting the blame always on the other fellow, which starts a chain reaction which spreads!, in short the mistake of lust kindles all of the ingredients which when all properly collected explode in all out war and destruction! Why is is and does this happen and prove true? because SEX was not created so mankind could enjoy as much as he wants and anyway he would like to..." without consequences!!! And all holy prophets whether on the Pleiades, earth, Venus, or any other planet have always testified of this and warned\advised thier fellows to beware and cry out to the Spirit for salvation from bodily attachment. Like it or lump it... Lars | ||
James the truthseeker |
OK everyone, Lets all now take our conversations here with angry NONESUCH to our other conversations at "skeptics corner" this topic area really is for "ET Intervention On Earth" and I'd like to preserve this topic for just that because it is important. NONESUCH that includes you too. Thanks, James the truthseeker | ||
Shannon |
Preach on, Lars! AMEN! You just described some people I know in the middle of your message, it is as if you personally knew them. They are living examples of exactly what you describe. | ||
E. Visser |
Hi all. Concerning castration which might have been used by us Earth people in the past and maybe even et races that were here or elsewhere. I find that method rather rigorous.In ancient times here on Earth it might have been applied for rapists and the likes but nowdays I find it unthinkable.First other options should be researched or developed like medication or therapy.Even brain-studies which are in its infancy but make great progress, could shed light on the workings of the offender-mind and even make it possible to make a correct treatment. As far as an et society resorting to castraction. I find that unlikely.Surely they would have come up with a more humane treatment due to their technological standard. Regards, TerraX | ||
Shannon |
Just to clarify, my last message I was referring to the way people turn out when lust controls them. James TT is right though, the topic here should be ET Intervention on Earth. I havent read " Plejarans Wish " yet... how is it? |
