| Author |
Message |
   
Edward
Member
Post Number: 1674
Registered: 05-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 10, 2010 - 01:48 am: | 
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Hi Carlos.....
Interesting analogy!
Well, yes, the Spirit(/Battery) is ALWAYS in the Changing/Alteration mode, as
I understand it. Even as we accumulate information/data around us, we help her
in Charging/Strengthening/Intensifying, her Power/Force.
Thus, in every incarnation, she starts anew in Charge/Strength/Intensity,
which is adapted with/to the New Incarnation to be.
Example:
When a child is born, the Spirit(/Battery) is alignment in Charge/Strength/
Intensity, with the new born child. As the child grows older, the Spirit
adapts herself to/in this process.
Thus, when this same child is...say 15 years old, the Spirit is not the same
(in contents) as she was at birth.
Thus, the Charge/Strength/Intensity/Force adapts constantly as the child grows, till her last breath on earth, so to speak.
Thus, this repeats itself in every (re)incarnation.
BTW: I think we can move this discussion to the Spirit Teaching thread,
perhaps? Would be more suitable, ok?
Edward. |
Jokoveltman
Member
Post Number: 21
Registered: 11-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 10, 2010 - 02:50 am: |
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Carlos,
After a little thought, I came up with the following (less technical) analogy: a spirit form is like a canvas on which each new personality is a new painting. Lacking special consciousness abilities or technology, none of the paintings can get a view of or interact with the paintings underneath, and even then the paint is permanent and the painting cannot be changed. Also, the view "forward" is blocked when a new painting is overlaid, death being a coating of primer in preparation for the next painting.
Peace,
Tim |
Techieatwork
Member
Post Number: 53
Registered: 08-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 10, 2010 - 03:01 am: |
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Hi Gib_niner, Edward:
I am happy that anything that I said in this forum already helped someone out there to see any topic under a new light. (smile)
I felt an inner happiness. I hope it goes to the right place in my heart, and not to my head, so to speak.
Meaning, I hope it's happiness with integrity in acknowledgment that I am also learning as I go along, and I can manage to keep my cool and humility.
Guys, feel free to move this post to any thread you consider more appropriate.
--
Salome
Carlos
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Borthwey
Member
Post Number: 148
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 10, 2010 - 03:37 am: |
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Thomas,
A lineage of spirits is not something that I have ever heard of. "Lineage" here only applies to the succession of personalities of a given spirit form. Billy and Jmmanuel are different personalities that belong to the same spirit's lineage of incarnations.
If BEAM said that the two spirit forms are not the same, he meant that due to the time lapse between them. Just like it can be said that what you are now is not what you were yesterday, because everything... keeps changing.
"There can be no tyrants where there are no slaves." José Rizal
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J_rod7
Member
Post Number: 1172
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 10, 2010 - 05:00 am: |
|
***
Hi Thomas,
In respect for You, Billy and Christian, It the truth that Christian has told to you. It is the same Spirit of Nokodemion which has enlivened the Seven Prophets.
If you could, will you give the reference to where you found ["... BEAM specifically say(s) that the two spirit forms are not the same but only the lineage?"] -- Let's see if we can unravel this point of confusion.
Hi Gib9r,
A CRT emits only beams of Electrons, which electrons have NO color. The color results from the specific Phosphors "lit" by the electron beam. The beams may be "called" color (red, blue, or green) but trust an old-hand Electronics Technician (complete with the degree), the beams themselves are invisible, with no color at all.
However, as the story-line continues, that IS another very good analogy. The beams are the common factor for all colors, equivalent to saying that Creation Spirit is the same Spirit within all Life. Further, for one particular pixel of color-phosphor, the pixel lights-up when the beam (Spirit) is upon it, then dies when the beam (Spirit) passes on, only to be "born again" into new Light when the beam (Spirit) returns. Works for me ... How about you Carlos?
Well this does work insofar as for reincarnation, but leaves short the aspect of increased Wisdom, Knowledge, Growth, and Change from one lifetime to the next in the Evolution of the Spirit. Well that's the problem with analogies = they don't stretch enough to cover the objet'-d'Analogue.
In Peace -- Salome
***
~~ TRUTH finds WISDOM finds LOVE finds PEACE -- Find What You Seek ~ Rod
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Memo00
Member
Post Number: 408
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 10, 2010 - 06:33 am: |
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hi Thomas
as i see it, it is just a way to say things, a matter of words, everything changes, and yet each thing has its unique characteristics. You are not the same that you were yesterday and still you are you.
If Billy said his spirit is not the same it may be because it is not exactly the same, but has changed since then (as Christian says it is older) |
Rarena
Member
Post Number: 562
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 10, 2010 - 09:08 am: |
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Dear Thomas,
The spirit is the fine matter part of the body/mind... all three being connected, the spirit; providing energy for what we call life. Since we are mostly unconscious of it we really don't fully connect with it until many more billions of years of corrected concentrated evolution... not like Darwin's idea of evolution... you understand, but daily improvement in consciousness and correct adherance/course correction... in congruence with the the laws and recommendations of The Creation.
Like the photo of Thomas in 1990 you are not the same body/mind/spirit you were then... yet... when you look at that photo some twenty years ago... you know you are the same lineage you remember, you have the knowledge from that time and you have kept that hypothetical photograph, yet you have progressively changed with knowledge and wisdom in the meantime.
The whole thing is much more complicated and not easily explained in a few paragraphs... but knowing you... an intelligent seeking individual... you get the point... good questions!
Salome (Be Greeted in Peace and Wisdom)
Randy
PS> When Christian (C49)explains something... it is probably absolutely correct, quite a kind, knowlegable, intelligent, wise, evolved fellow, living close to Billy... |
Memo00
Member
Post Number: 409
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 10, 2010 - 11:22 am: |
|
Jrod heres a quote:
"What happens when two persons with the same spirit form get together in a time trip, like Billy and Jmmanuel? Billy can tell his first hand experience, I hope.
Mario
ANSWER: It is not the "same" spirit form, even if it is of the same lineage. One spirit form is less developed/evolved than the other, and there are two entirely different personalities present.
The same is true even when a person visits oneself in the actual life (through time travel).
The best way to make this understandable is when a person of, say, 50 years looks at an old photograph when he or she was 10 years old. The child was a different personality than at the age of 50! You will be aware of this if/when you look at a photograph!" |
Bronzedesk
Member
Post Number: 64
Registered: 01-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 10, 2010 - 02:11 pm: |
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I once asked how these things could be so true?
I said I believe all things are separate but still one but he (George) in turn said you don't know what the hell you're talking about! You really truly haven't seen it yet have you?
But!...But!... But... I said! He replied no butts about it!
He further explained to me that to see and be and understand and to reveal spirit as it truly is, is like unto a unending web which each soul leaves in its wake beginning from the source!
Like a spider, wherever the spider goes the web is sure to follow. And if the tracks meet does that make him one or two or even more!
The key he replied is so damn simple it's a visual, spiritual or whatever perspective gained by saying come experience the ride!
For example count how many wrinkles, so far have you accumulated since day one but realize also that, if you are old as, I am you are definitely full of a lot of pits and falls and always in the grey of things and wrinkly as hell!
Then he blew me a KISS <---that's figuratively (just try to keep it simple and sweet or just in my case just plain ... stupid and awnry!)
He then said as above so below, if we truly see ourselves and I mean totally (through clear perspective and discernment with a little dash of faith on the side, how the hell are you to go wrong?) I politely said and added that experience is also a key factor, we have to walk the walk and talk the talk with conviction and the ability to always makes mistakes but like a cat always land on our feet and duck a lot!
Then and only then will you just barely begin to realize and understand what just beginning the trip of not knowing anything and everything, is all about!
I just shook my head and left! Go Figure! I still couldn't see or visualize it, I always had trouble with abstract!
Now you ... try to explain what spirit is to a man of clay!
p.s. Key factor "Can't change or take away free will or choice!" Answer: You change you first... then all else will follow in your wake or what I like to call an awakening! Take it from one of the fallen one's, repetition is a bitch but, in the long run its well worth it!
First you forget names, then you forget faces. Next you forget to pull your zipper up and finally, you forget to pull it down. George Burns
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Techieatwork
Member
Post Number: 54
Registered: 08-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 10, 2010 - 04:03 pm: |
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Hi Randy.
What is the user_id of Christian? What is "(C49)"?
So I am more attentive of his posts?
--
Salome
Carlos
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J_rod7
Member
Post Number: 1175
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, February 11, 2010 - 11:55 am: |
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***
Hi Memo00,
OK, Thank you for the reference. Now that several other members here, including Christian (of C49, which means "a member of the Core Group of 49" Carlos) have already provided adequate insightful comments to unravel the confusion, no further comments will be necessary.
In Peace
***
~~ TRUTH finds WISDOM finds LOVE finds PEACE -- Find What You Seek ~ Rod
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Mahigitam
Member
Post Number: 86
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, February 13, 2010 - 01:46 am: |
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"BILLY MEIER Proven HOAX?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9XCfRc1UTI
what was the app. size of the tree and the model craft...
Fear not what is not real,never was and never will be.What is real,always was and cannot be destroyed.
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Michael_horn
Member
Post Number: 154
Registered: 07-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, February 13, 2010 - 02:44 pm: |
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Mahigitam,
We are waiting until the new Kal Korff attack, which includes this footage, photos, etc. is released. Then we will post a rather lengthy, well done rebuttal of it by Chris Lock.
This fellow made a very good model of the WCUFO but Chris' analysis shows why this attempt actually proves the authenticity
of Meier's UFO evidence.
It did take a photographic expert to point out the obvious and I think we'll all appreciate Chris' work. It should all take place in a couple of weeks.
BTW, we have now also made available Wendelle's six books (Vols. 1-4, Preliminary and Supplemental Reports) in downloadable form, for all who may be interested. |
Ramirez
Member
Post Number: 382
Registered: 06-2008
| | Posted on Monday, February 15, 2010 - 04:45 pm: |
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Hi Michael,
Some time ago I ordered several CD's and a couple contain errors making them unreadable.
The error seems to be that .PDF files were burned as though they are playable media like music or video files.
The computer is unable to autoplay a CD containing .PDF files and due to the way these files are burned it's impossible to extract the contents (PDF document) from the body of the CD.
To avoid this please have .PDF documents burned onto the CD as though it is a data CD not a music or video CD.
Cheers.
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Michael_horn
Member
Post Number: 158
Registered: 07-2009
| | Posted on Monday, February 15, 2010 - 06:10 pm: |
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Hi Ramirez,
Please send back any defective CDs so we can check and replace them. So far this is the first i've heard of that problem. |
Rarena
Member
Post Number: 563
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 16, 2010 - 07:17 am: |
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Dear Thomas,
http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.ListAll&friendId=386805075&page=2
Billy:
Thanks for your information. Then something else: the creative spirit form of the person is wrongly designated as the soul, but at the same time, the value of the psyche embodies this according to today’s better understanding and sense. Now, the spirit form – respectively what the person designates as the soul, which is capable of wandering according to Christian and other religious faiths, even the so-called soul-wandering – is denied, especially by medical science and by many other would-be knowledge directions, as well as its ability to be reincarnated. How long will it be until the incorrigible acknowledge the fact, as it is even set forth by the spirit teachings, that the spirit form actually exists and is arranged into reincarnation
that was from conact 213 or 214 above link almost mid page, Quetzels' line 20, not the first one or two line twenties... After Glenn Miller's death... almost mid page use the right scrh
So from the above... spirit is not the soul which is like the personality/Psyche during our life. |
Rarena
Member
Post Number: 564
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 16, 2010 - 07:20 am: |
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Dear Carlos,
Hi, how are you... Christian's id is Christian as far as I know... C49 is the core group 49 who live nearby and help Billy most often. |
Gaiaguysnet
Member
Post Number: 966
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, February 18, 2010 - 12:00 pm: |
|
Dear Marc (et al)
You wrote, " I did make a personal attempt about a year ago to contact you, Wibka, Michael Horn, James Moore, and others with regard to moving forward in translation matters and getting our group’s Documents In Progress area of our site improved, etc., etc. . but I don’t believe I heard nary a peep from you personally. "
Please see archived correspondence - and please explain your above assertion. Thanks.
Dyson - My apologies. Duly noted. I didn't find your response in my archives. I'd still like to know why you appear to be helping to propagate a false impression that troubles still exist today within the FIGU Society USA.
"...the internal strife and discord within the group continues apace, with particular attention and concern directed towards the FIGU USA Society, which has - as long as I've been on the scene - been dysfunctional, to the point that we just ignore it, logically preferring to let unauthorised outsiders continue to do the work that the official USA outfit does not do."
"But - really - anyone who would expect that FIGU would be able to just set up a functional sister group in a country which Billy describes as "the devil incarnate" without insuperable obstacles to its success, is not capable of rational thought, or lives under a rock, or both."
The events surrounding contact 423 occurred some four years ago and much has changed since then. We've had a balanced and cohesive group for quite some time now. Your public comments at face value, at least from my perspective, come off as somewhat negative and misleading. Put yourself for a moment in our group's shoes. I don't think you'd appreciate the commentaries you've rendered in this forum recently, especially if you were to know for a fact that they're not true. ~ Marc J.
Dyson Devine 2/11/09
to christian.freh., stephan.rickau., marc.juliano, Vibka, folco, Michael, James
Dear, Christian, Stephan, Marc, Wiebke, Robjna, Michael, and James!
I'm taking the liberty of sharing this email with all of you in order that we all get the same information from the same source. Likewise, the topic of official FIGU translations is naturally relevant to all of you.
I trust that you, Stephan and Christian, won't mind that I append below the emails you sent separately to me, for the information of the other interested parties. Thanks.
And thanks also go to Stephan for his speedy reply to my email to him and his good questions, and to Christian for his kind words and welcome suggestion. Of course the rest of you also earn our thanks for your specific efforts to get this vital material out there into the English-speaking world. We are all rowing the same boat. Now it seems to be picking up speed.
Stephan: Vivienne and I basically agree with you that two kinds of translations of FIGU material - official and unofficial - is not ideal. In order to shed some light on this existing situation, let me explain the history of the translations we do which Billy kindly personally permitted/authorised. There is a blurb we wrote about this which is informative at www.futureofmankind.co.uk/meier/gaiaguys/translations.htm
When Vivienne and I discovered FIGU in 2002, we were surprised that there was so little translated for the English speakers'. Guido's book had recently been published in English, and of course we bought that, but the Stephens' books were out of print (as was the TJ and the coffee table book), so the used copies we eventually managed to procure were very very expensive. Rumours existed that there were various "illegal" English translations of various texts floating around which had been done by/for various individuals, but we didn't seek them nor have we ever sighted any. Conventional wisdom about FIGU's official translation procedures consisted primarily of scurrilous disinformation from the infamous Randy Winters' audio cassette series. FIGU infamously had a special fireplace designed specifically for burning all unofficial translations. Similarly, we read that there was a huge backlog of provisional translations patiently awaiting review/correction/etc. by badly overworked FIGU K49 members. I think this is still the case several years later.
The situation did not look at all promising. So I decided to act unilaterally.
The basic conversational German I picked up during my US Air Force stay in Stuttgart had 30 years of rust on it. Vivienne had no German at all. We decided to teach ourselves the material and the language and I started making small "preliminary, unauthorised and unofficial" English translations for our website, which contained a rapidly growing section about Billy & Co. I identified these translations as quoted above and decided to implement the practice of alternating German/English sentences for the sake of maximum transparency. In spite of the fact that Vivienne - who works tirelessly to hone her German skills to the point where she can someday make official FIGU translations, and write more articles – initially objected to me going ahead with my translations, she decided, since I was going to do them anyway, that she might be able to collaborate enough to pick up some of my errors. Today's joint efforts simply grew from that. Cognisant of the need for timely work on Special Bulletins, for example, and content with our unofficial status, we never directly approached other translators for collaboration, choosing to work on areas of importance we think were/are neglected by other workers, such as Sfath's Explanation (currently being re-worked into an official translation by Wiebke, Robjna & Christian), and Billy's un-translated prophecies and various scientifically or socially significant excerpts from the corrected contact notes, and so forth. We also did not want to waste the valuable time of official FIGU translators because of our lower level of ability at that time.
After five years, late in 2006, in reply to assorted (false) accusations from one of our numerous FIGU-forum-based villifiers, Billy responded to him thus: "Dyson and Vivienne from www.gaiaguys.net have the permission to make non-official and preliminary translations on their website, but they don't have the right to publish their translations as official translations. To this end they have to clearly label each translation as "non-official", and they have to include the German original text with each translation (sentence by sentence) in order that translation errors may be easily detected by readers who are mastering German and English. Of course their translations are not perfect, and of course the choice of texts to be translated is influenced by the "main direction" of their website. Even if there may be found information on their website that is not in accordance with FIGU's views this is no obstacle to give to Vivienne and Dyson the permission to make those "unauthorized preliminary translations"."
2007 saw de facto recognition of our work, with a FIGU bulletin linked directly to one of Billy's unofficially translated texts on our now-defunct website. Of course our unofficial status is because we are self-taught amateurs, not masters of the two languages, which is a stated REQUIREMENT, but we are improving, as anyone (competent) who compares our early work to our current work can readily see.
Shortly thereafter Michael took the initiative to sell a CD of a rough .htm-only compilation of our most of our website-based translations. At about this time, in the continuing vacuum of adequate, more official sources, James' invaluable futureofmankind.co.uk archive continues to justifiably earn great respect and enormous popularity for its accurate presentation of trustworthy English translations of FIGU material, and is THE source of most of the gaiaguys-era work Vivienne and I did (and still do). My current translation project, which Vivienne tells me she may or may not continue to help me with, is all of "Asket's Explanations" and I am publishing them episodically on the "Translations" thread of the FIGU English forum. Michael and James have been republishing, on their websites, translations which can be found on this FIGU forum thread.
Of course Vivienne and I are delighted if any officially recognised FIGU workers wish to remake our existing (and forthcoming) body of work into something "official".
Marc, please feel free to take from the above-mentioned sources. (A complete archive of all our published work, up to January 2008, can be obtained upon request from David Chance.) And we also stand ready to assist, subject to our serious lack of current resources. But I will first and foremost get on with the job at hand, as ever, rather than engage in unproductive correspondence about word-choices, etc. I leave that in the hands of the officials.
Suffice it to say that we think that inviting translation "corrections" from the public arena - which naturally includes the same people who poison the English forum - is very unwise. We also point out that our combined translation work is mostly for a future when the current dumbed-down English language is put right, and the conventional system of English grammar is again the rule. As Billy and the Plejaren so correctly point out, BOTH languages need to be mastered, and having two masters of only one language each, working together, won't do. In other words - if one collaborator is a master of German, but not the English language, and the other collaborator is a master of English, but not the German language, their combined work will still be inadequate.
And in closing - when will the Semjase Silver Star Centre be spelt correctly? (see below) ;-)
Salome,
Dyson and Vivienne
AND HERE IS YOUR PROMPT AND FRIENDLY REPLY
Marc Juliano 2/12/09
to Philia, Scott, me, christian.freh., stephan.rickau., Vibka, folco, Michael, James
Hello Dyson, Hello Everyone,
Thank you for that detailed explanation and perspective on your work. And many thanks for allowing us to use your work in our project. I’ve added Philia Stauber and Scott Whitney to this e-mail who are also involved in one way or another in these same efforts and may have some thoughts to share too.
You and Vivienne know from past communications how I feel about your combined efforts over the years. I'm by no stretch an expert, but I’ve been involved in translation and correction of FIGU material since the early 90s and your translations are among the most readable and grammatically well-structured I have seen in a while. So I very much value your input on this topic.
As Christian mentioned, FIGU Society is adding side-by-side translation/correction documents of FIGU’s and Billy’s texts to a repository section of our site. The main goal: Collect the most well-executed English translations in one area for translation/correction improvement (if it's even possible to improve) and ultimately make them into official documents. Of course these can eventually become the books, booklets, bulletins, etc. from where the translation originated, but they can also, in the least, be published as official documents on relevant web sites. Even before they become “official”, many of these documents will be added to our web site public areas and denoted with an unauthorized “stamp”, as long as FIGU has approved this.
Documents are set up in the typical German/English two-column format used by FIGU and uploaded to the document list with a starting version number. Registered users of our site (with verifiable personal information) have the ability to download these documents using a program like MS Word or OpenOffice Writer, edit them in a recorded or tracked changes mode and upload them to a "pending" area for moderators to review and decide about the integration of the edits into the current document. The process is currently moderated by Christian, Scott Whitney and myself but can include others who have experience or capability in working on FIGU material. The intent is to ultimately get to know the people who are interested in assisting and to get to know their acumen in areas of developing better English versions of the Mission material, and not to just work with anonymous people.
As you pointed out, there has been a serious lack of resources in this process for the longest time. The reasons for this probably vary but in my experience, aside from lacking requisite skills in both languages and “Mission vocabulary” as you’ve mentioned, I've also encountered things like, "It's being handled by the authorized people behind the curtain, so there's probably not much I can or need to do in order to help." Obviously anyone with an interest in helping out is fully capable of asking the question on how they can assist. But I think many people are visual and it’s often human nature for people to see what is actually going on behind the curtain in order to feel compelled and/or comfortable in lending a hand.
I agree: Ensuring that this correction process is handled by those capable of discerning useful translations and correction work is an absolute prerequisite and it cannot be that just anyone submits corrections and/or translations who has no skill in this area. But on the flip side, adding too many restrictions on who can and who cannot participate in the process is equally unwise in my opinion, and may be responsible in part for bringing us to the situation we currently have. I believe there is a viable balance in here that protects the material as well as providing a mechanism that invites assistance. As long as the process is properly moderated and people "on the outside" are able to actually see and understand the translation/correction process and how it works, I think assistance is more likely to come. It seems to me that you’ve proven this concept yourself, ever since you began placing your translations on the web: others appear to be following suit. As a computer guy, an analogy might be of computer software that is made behind closed doors by professional developers and open-source software made by the collective contribution of varied and talented outside developers. Why develop if Microsoft has got it covered? Well, because open source is in many ways superior and invites a much broader spectrum of talent…and is obviously less prone to bugs and security flaws. J
I’m curious to hear more ideas with regard to this web-based system of properly organizing and managing the improvement of these documents, as it’s by no means a black box. I’ll be working to improve the guidelines so that it’s clearer as to what the goals are and what can be submitted for review and so forth. This whole thing is really a rough draft of what we hope can be something that helps organize the many snippets and excerpts that are popping up all over the forum and elsewhere into working documents and eventually authorized texts.
A follow-up vision might be to develop a web-based application where pre-assigned “teams” headed by a proficient moderator can head up cooperative work on documents, similar to the old FIGU-OCT process but more along the lines of the real-time Google document approach. The difference would be that the system would integrate such things as Mission-related terminology “helpers”, the ability for the system to suggest the use of previously stored and approved sentences or sentence fragments for instances of identical text, scalability for use internationally on other FIGU sites for their respective language, and anything else that can be dreamed up.
I agree that forging ahead with your translations is probably the best route for you and Vivienne while others help to organize and improve on your foundation, again if that’s even required. And you’re of course you both are invited to check in on your documents to see how things are going, join in the improvement process itself, and so on.
All thoughts welcome.
Salome,
Marc
(Message edited by marc on February 18, 2010) |
Gaiaguysnet
Member
Post Number: 967
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, February 18, 2010 - 01:40 pm: |
|
Dear all,
Michael Horn sent this to me, (as well as Brenda, Christian, Scott, Mark and Marc).
I'm sure neither he nor the moderators should mind that I've taken the liberty of re-posting it here.
(His original bold and italic emphasis was lost in the formatting for the forum.)
Comments from me follow.
-----------------------------------------------
(Michael writes)
I was going to post this before the subject was closed
received 6:42 AM (1 hour ago)
I have not commented here about this matter before, as I didn't know if I could be completely impartial. After thinking it through I now think that I can comment in as fair and neutral a way as possible.
I should explain that I had my own situation with the person in question, not directly related to FIGU USA, which took a good bit of time to resolve. The actual details are not important to this discussion but it should be mentioned that a determining factor in the resolution of the situation, which I viewed as both fair and favorable, was FIGU's assistance and support of my position.
I do not know how much, if any, of the circumstances pertaining to my situation contributed in any way to the decisions of the parties involved but nothing in my experience could be said to contradict the overall impression that one gets from reading Ptaah and Billy's comments.
Now, agree or disagree with Dyson, he certainly does put his gray matter to use in formulating his arguments. So I want to point out a few things.
I do have to ask, why we are so comfortable deliberately skewering those, like Korff, who stand openly in direct opposition to this mission...while we are hesitant to use the example of those "on our side" who give us working examples of what to avoid? It is the actions, not the persons, that we are pointing to and we also know that...people change. The need for vigilance, however, doesn't, nor does our need to be impartial, neutral and fair in showing the good and bad actions, the mistakes and missteps that we all make along the way.
As someone who has been/is the target of deliberate, inaccurate, nasty attacks, on dozens (now actually hundreds) of pages on internet forums, I have few things to say. One is that if we read an untruth about ourselves it really shouldn't bother us, okay, certainly not a lot (can anyone say..."Billy Meier"?). I didn't perceive Dyson's mentioning the matter with WM/MW as a deliberate or nasty attack, nor did I see it designed/intended to cause harm, disruption, embarrassment, etc. After all, it is in the Contact Notes and he included it with other information.
I do think though that by a number of people getting quite upset and even defensive about this issue, rather than letting it air out, let the information and lessons be learned and move on that it caused the very thing that they were seeking to avoid. Again, this is content within the Contact Notes and it's better that we are the ones to deal openly with these kinds of existing things (information) rather than it being used against us and the mission by those who will be clever enough to twist it to make it appear like a cover-up, cultic behavior, etc.
I will only say that the fact that some people knew nothing about my own difficulties, and my absence from making any forum comments, should be sufficient to show that I don't have an axe to grind against the person.
I recently had a conversation with someone about the Roman Polanski matter that may bear some relevance in principle. While my friend wasn't a supporter of Polanski's actions, he felt that the way the prosecutor, judge, legal system had treated him was wrong and unfair. My point to him though was that when someone knowingly commits actions that are wrong in themselves, they can't control the effect, i.e. what befalls them, nor should they complain about "fairness". This isn't to say that there isn't unfairness in the legal system; it may be unfair that Polanski sits in a Swiss chalet instead of in a prison cell while all this gets ironed out.
We might also note that when Billy became aware of his incorrect words and actions towards the Elders, he publicly published his apologies and retraction. My point isn't that MW should now start publishing anything about this, only that since the cat is out of the bag not only should we not be panicking but we also shouldn't be chastising Dyson for translating and publishing the information, nor for applying his brain power to discussing it. If his concerns are unwarranted then that can be shown and explained and maybe has been. If there is something to be learned about the situation that is contained in the CN, then people involved in, or considering becoming involved in, FIGU, the forum, etc. should have the opportunity to be informed about it, if they so chose.
I could be wrong but as I see it Dyson did the right thing to have pointed the information out, unpopular as it may be. I have no comment on peripheral issues that pertain to FIGU USA or criticisms thereof.
Salome,
MH
---------------------------------------------
Michael wrote, "I didn't perceive Dyson's mentioning the matter with WM/MW as a deliberate ... attack, nor did I see it designed/intended to cause harm, disruption, ..., etc. After all, it is in the Contact Notes and he included it with other information."
Of course my mentioning of it was deliberately designed to cause harm and disruption to whatever powers are still at work (self-evidently) to keep the millions of other potential FIGU USA members from joining (among other obvious things).
I simply cannot logically accept that there are only - after, what, 30 years? - 6 (six) people in the USA who want to be members of the FIGU Society USA, which we are assured is now functioning just fine. Then where is everybody? Who or what is keeping the membership down? These are serious questions which demand serious answers, not more slimy, untrue insinuations about my putative sinister motives. Not to mention the predictable traditional subsequent forum gags, when I try to defend the truth.
Billy contends (and I agree 100%) that only when a festering problem can be brought to an intense stage can it be adequately recognized by most people (as a real problem) and then appropriately solved.
This is my motivation and it informs my intention to provide correct translations about the unhappy history of FIGU's attempts to establish a beachhead in the USA.
FIGU USA has been trashed by Ptaah before, particularly in the 339th contact (15 March, 2003), where Florena said that there were difficulties at FIGU USA from the very start - horrifying interpersonal relationships, an unwillingness to follow rules, a self-serving hierarchical power structure, and so on and so forth - that she tells Billy that Quetzal (after he examines of the situation) decided that the FIGU USA is so horrible, and it's leader such a dictator, that the only possible solution is to finally pull the plug on the whole ugly mess, having had their repeated advice ignored and concluding that the USA was utterly beyond redemption. "The Americans believe that wisdom should be fed to them with a spoon." The group's autocratic and selfish behaviour mirrors that of their national government, where a violent dictatorship is mendaciously portrayed as freedom and democracy, and so on and so forth. People who dare to disagree are (figuratively) slammed to the ground, etc. etc. etc. etc. Billy called Florena especially because of it. Unlike for Vol Ten, I didn't relate all this (in 8) because, when we got Volume Eight, some years ago, 2003 was already long past and I couldn't IMAGINE that that horrible situation could possible last. Naive fool that I am. And we had a monster (FEED ME!!) web presence to deal with, the Terror War to try to tell English-speaking people about, and our own difficulties. Anyway, Billy pleads for an extension of the P's latest ultimatum, and gets his way, arguing that it's not fair to the good Americans (all 6 of you?).
So I see the 6-person (?) membership as not only a cause of the problem, but much more so a blindingly obvious EFFECT of a deep-seated underlying and continuing problem, which must be brought to a head so it is finally noticed, and can be treated, like Billy says we should do to a festering chronic problem. I mean - really - out of 300 million people - six? Doesn't this raise some alarm bells? Doesn't this say something really, really serious and important to anyone? Maybe seen in light of Billy's 21 assassination attempts, many at the hands of various secret services?
And what about a little transparency for a change from FIGU USA? Is it a secret society, or what?
Stay tuned.
And because these vital authorised translations are unwelcome here, they will go elsewhere on line. The truth has many friends. Would FIGU USA publish them?
Peace in wisdom (strife in stupidity)
Dyson |
Thomas
Member
Post Number: 810
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Friday, February 19, 2010 - 02:19 am: |
|
Hi Dyson, I would like to offer the following points and I hope you take them in the neutral, nonaggressive manner they are meant in:
First of all, if FIGU and BEAM wrote those lines in the contact notes, then it is surely fine to translate them. However stirring up trouble where there might no longer be any is a different thing altogether.
Secondly, I will not speak for anyone but if it were me and you posted emails that I privately sent to you without asking me first, I would be offended.
Thirdly, why not concentrate on Australia where you live??? As I recall, BEAM said that a person should get themselves in order first, then there families, etc. before spreading outward. If Australia has a FIGU satellite group (authorized and official) then let us all know. Otherwise your efforts might be more useful there.
To wrap this post up, I would like to say that, even though I often disagree with you, I do sometimes see your point. I also do appreciate all the efforts you put forward for everyone. However it is very evident that you are aggressive toward others (such as myself) even when they mean you no harm...
If instead of listening to me and everyone else, you look to BEAM as an example, you will notice that he nevers attacks anyone and never rebuts. He calmly explains things in the contacts and merely answers people's questions directly. You on the other hand do not even listen to BEAM's advice nor that of Ptaah so how can you advise the rest of us?
I say this all without any malice and only with respect for you as a human being. I hope that this time, if you choose to respond (which is not necessary on my part), then I hope you will digest it first and not snap back at me. You and BEAM both have said to say things like they are and not falsify them. Well you yourself should also know to listen when someone speaks the truth instead of shirking the opportunity to learn from others. I see faults in myself every day and I try to become a better person. I know you likely mean well but you take things way too far sometimes...
Respectfully and in peace,
Thomas Hall
patricksdadinfrance@yahoo.com
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Sonik_01
Member
Post Number: 128
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Friday, February 19, 2010 - 02:56 am: |
|
Hi Dyson,
You know, FSUSA's beginning is not much more different than FIGU Switzerland's beginning - full of strife and discord. FIGU Switzerland is now ok and FSUSA will be ok, what business is it yours to make all the fuss? You would be equal one of the nay-sayers in the beginning of FIGU Switzerland, who kept demoralizing Billy and all the rest of the beginners by nay-saying and constant pointing out flaws which they were painfully aware of. Your translating of the contact is great, but you're taking it too far. By doing this, you are actually not helping. You're just demoralizing these people, and if you know of their difficulties, why don't you help out rather than hurt them through encouragement or offering of real solutions, instead of a public shaming campaign in order to lambaste them into shame in order to accomplish what-----?? Only you would know the obscure, illogical reason. Just my opinion. |
Msmichelle
New member
Post Number: 2
Registered: 02-2010
| | Posted on Friday, February 19, 2010 - 08:11 am: |
|
I agree if it's in the Contact Notes it should be published but without commentary on our parts. As i've monitored this forum since 2008, I too have wondered why we go back and forth on minor issues?? As a former outsider looking in....it's clear what's going on. It saddens me that we're missing a golden opportunity to evolve yet instead we bring our disfunctional behaviors for all to see. Everyone should take a moment and decide your true intentions of why you are here????? I want to evolve my consciousness and learn and know the spiritual teaching and material. I'm thankful to websites such as theyfly.com; futureofmankind, figu switzerland, etc. |
Marbar
Member
Post Number: 68
Registered: 12-2009
| | Posted on Friday, February 19, 2010 - 06:27 pm: |
|
Michelle,
the pupose of our life is to make our spirit grow and learn from the mistakes we make. That is what Billy and the Plejarens are doing their best to teach us. |
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