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    Creational Member Post Number: 411 Registered: 09-2008 |
Dear All, The natural conflicts that arise regarding the truthfulness of Meier’s claim are tools to aid our growth both individually and as a group. I personally have benefited from the arguments that have been presented by all participants. As for an alternative approach to deal with these accusations against Billy; For the sake of argument, let’s imagine this case is presented in a court of law. Simply put, to this date, the evidences provided by Meier’s debunkers do not prove, beyond reasonable doubt that his objective evidences are indeed phony while on the contrary; there are numerous scientific corroborations proving the authenticity of his claims; which by the way, is not what is on trial today and will not be for centuries to come. The only possible verdict in any fair and decent court is, “not guilty” for charges of deceit. The best scenario in this imaginary unbiased court would be to pay heed to his unmatched teachings toward the road to true humanness. Meier is not sending people to your door for conversion and donations. He has not become famous and fortunate in this mission. If anything he has created unsurpassed challenges for himself accepting this seemingly “mission impossible” and has suffered tremendously due to this undertaking. There are plenty of phony claims in the now famous UFO communities that seldom has debunkers on their tails. That by itself says a lot about Billy's truth. Love, Zhila, Thank you Billy. | ||
Michael_horn Member Post Number: 300 Registered: 07-2009 |
A few more thoughts on the whole "duplication of evidence" topic. We are now in the "instant and virtual world", where people merely have to sit at their computer and dial up everything they want to know by typing a few words into a search engine, etc. And many people today have absolutely no idea of reality outside of the context of what they find on the internet, see and hear on TV, etc. So when someone sees the Meier films, for instance, and says to themselves, "Hey I could do that!" and they go about putting something together to prove their point, a few things are easily overlooked. For one, any number of reasonably skilled people could take different objects, assemble them in different ways and create similar EFFECTS. Now, does that mean that they duplicated Meier's evidence, or that they discovered the manner in which he produced it? Of course not, absolutely not. And this is where the oh so lazy skeptics usually overlook, and/or try to dismiss the importance of, the original investigation, with its testing, experts, etc. To do so is to effectively say that the best evidence, the best professional examination and analysis is the same as...NONE at all. Many of these kinds of people, having the luxury of working from, i.e. copying Meier's evidence, as well as a lot of available time in which to work to perfect the various elements of their approach, are blissfully ignorant of the actual, factual circumstances of the investigation. They don't even care to consider what was done, or why it was so important. After all, they have their plates and strings and, well, they know better. They often also make the common mistake of thinking that Meier was SO good at his presumed trickery that not only could he fool the experts, he could fool the best equipment of the day which, a reasonable person would easily understand, was far beyond his abilities. And the lengthy investigation also revealed so much information about the man, his responsibilities, time demands, schooling, knowledge, his lack of both financial, technical and collaborative resources, etc. This is what the instant gratification crowd doesn't care or want to know about, because they think that things only occur in the convenient little cartoon manner that they conceptualize in their heads. But a good researcher, a good detective, knows that they must seek out, find and consider the worth of all the details; some things just preclude certain possibilities. So while Phil is working with a couple of (pre-drilled?) plates and running wires through them, and assuming that this MUST have been the way that Meier made his "UFO models", the fact that he hasn't established that Meier had any such plates and drills (and all the other materials, rigging, etc.) leaves a huge, unfilled gap. And does Phil have a wife and three kids to support while he works nights as a watchman, renovates a rundown farmhouse as his home and types out thousands of pages of precise, prophetically accurate information while he's also taking hundreds of photos, films, etc.? Nothing against any of the skeptics but they have a small, circumscribed context that is quite isolated from the established realities of Meier's circumstances, capabilities, etc. So it's all the more telling when the best of the efforts, which are Phil's, reveal their fatal flaws even without much technical examination. They duplicate the EFFECT to a degree but Meier wasn't photographing and filming an effect. He was recording images of authentic craft of extraterrestrial origin, using the technology of the day, and it seems that some people may never in this lifetime be able to accept and handle that reality. | ||
Thomas Member Post Number: 1100 Registered: 03-2004 |
> No Michael I never stated that Phil "duplicated" anything. And my > statement isn't unsubstantiated because I myself have torn apart all the > evidence in my search for the truth. I will drop the subject I guess since > I am having difficulty getting through with my ideas. Thanks for the > responses anyhow and have a good day :-) | ||
Thomas New member Post Number: 1 Registered: 03-2004 |
> I know this is out of line but I am sick of your crap Kingman and yours too Jrod. At least Michael can disagree without being a jerk so why don't you both take a lesson from him. And no, I am not a skeptic since I have said at least 4 times recently that I support and believe Mr Meier. I am clearly just open minded unlike some here. Can you not read Kingman? Or do you rebut without actually reading my posts? How about you grow up and I will do as I see fit. Sound good? If not, tough... | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 1308 Registered: 10-2007 |
*** Best Greetings All Fellow OMEDAM, This greeting is a reminder of who and what we become as true Human Beings which carry forth the Laws of Creation. This does not become "automatically conferred" upon every Human, although EVERY Human has this potential, since every Human Spirit is an offspring directly from Creation. To become an OMEDAM in the sense of it's meaning, requires living by the Truth of Creational Laws. To cause no harm to any other living creature, to have clear conscience in ALL relationships dealing with every other Human Being, an obligation to follow the precepts of the Spirit, while maintaining equilibrium in the material embodiment, and to continue in progress to gain Knowledge, Wisdom and Love. The objective of the OMEDAM is to move forward in Evolution of the Spirit for the Evolution of Creation. This then, is where comes the need to recognize the Self-Responsibility in all the thoughts and actions. For there is surly in the Laws of "Cause and Effect" - repercussions when he responsibility is laid upon "someone-else," as when it is said "the devil made me do it," "not my fault," or "I didn't know." OMEDAM does not excuse themselves from the obligation to right past wrongs. Rather it is the obligation to recognize the errors, to correct them, and therefore to learn from them. For my own part here, I do recognize that I have been unkind to others on this Forum, for which I offer my sincere apologies. I recognize that I am a less-than-perfect Human Being. I am responsible for the errors in my actions and in my thinking, and admit this as a fault of my own making. I make no promises and can offer no other "soothing ointments" to salve the hurts I have caused. If it is accepted, I offer my hand in friendship and my recognition of the Creation Spirit working in the Spirits of all of you, my fellow OMEDAM. Salome *** ~~ TRUTH finds WISDOM finds LOVE finds PEACE -- Find What You Seek ~ Rod | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 818 Registered: 07-2004 |
No harm meant Thomas. As you can see you've generated quite a few responses from your posts regarding the recent attempts at duplicating some of Billy's evidence. People here responded for different reasons, and some of us for the same reason. I've gone back and reread this thread and I can say that the sum total I myself keep reading in your points is that Billy's evidence is easily destroyed by your thinking. I'm just standing up for the hard work Billy has endured to bring us the truth. I can't help myself when I come across someone I THINK is not respecting this man's efforts, IMO. When you are saying you believe in Billy 100%, your reason for having doubts about the physical materials was confusing, IMO. I should of been a little clearer in my responses which would of helped each of us avoid additional confusion. I should of said a potential for skepticism instead of an actual skeptic, which are very different. My bad. I'll work on it. I mean nothing personal since obviously I don't know you. But I hope a simple hand held out in understanding of your right to your beliefs will forgive my zealous nature that was focused on your position. a friend in america Shawn | ||
Edward Member Post Number: 1818 Registered: 05-2002 |
Hi Michael.... You mentioning: BTW, has anyone else realized that Meier didn't have to work so hard to get it "right", every time? Yes, I remember Billy once mentioning when someone interviewed him and asked him HOW he did it; Billy just answered simple and very cool: I just point and click away....  Very Authentic and Honest answer, no? They just have to realized that Billy does not have any Bag-Of-Tricks...for his excellent shots of photos: he just points and clicks away.... ; as he mentioned. As simple as that.... Edward. | ||
Earthling Member Post Number: 462 Registered: 05-2008 |
If one wants a good taste of the actual circumstances surrounding the times when BEAM was collecting evidence of beam ships: Read Section 3, among others ... fm Gary Kinders "Light Years: An Investigation into the Extraterrestrial Experiences of Eduard Meier" http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dg9wd45_123dh6594gg " Herbert's second experience with Meier proved as intriguing as the first, and he returned again the following weekend. For hours he studied the photographs and talked to Meier about the experiences. His initial cynicism over the man and his alleged contacts slowly turned to curiosity, and for the next year he traveled every weekend to Hinwil, sometimes alone, sometimes accompanied by Harold. He stayed with the Meier family, sleeping in a small bedroom at the farmhouse and watching Meier closely. He was free to roam all levels of the house, and spoke frequently with Popi, helping her with her German and explaining the contact notes, which she tried to understand. They developed a close friendship, as Popi relied on Herbert for the moral support and understanding her husband now had no time to give her. But Herbert saw and heard nothing suspicious. Popi, if she kept any secrets, divulged nothing. Herbert constantly searched but found no equipment, rigging, or models, not even scientific journals or technical books from which Meier might glean his knowledge of so many things. Meier never left the house unless it was to go on a contact, usually late at night, and no one came to the house to meet with him secretly. "I saw Billy from morning to night," he later recalled, "and I never saw him making things like maybe speakers. I never saw him take pictures; I never saw a model. I never saw anything that looked like a model or balloon. I knew every room in his house, and I never saw anything. That's the reason I went there; I wanted to see him do something. But I never saw anything. Month after month I stayed in Hinwil, but he did nothing, no people came, nothing." " When Herbert and Harold returned from a contact with Meier, they would all talk till five, maybe six, in the morning, Herbert and Harold drinking Pepsi, Meier drinking coffee with cream, and all of them smoking. They talked about space and the extraterrestrial societies that flourish there, the power they used to propel their ships, the weapons they employed, their social system and domestic concerns. They also discussed the problems of planet Earth, its true history, future wars, and prophecies. "These were the most interesting nights I ever had in my life." Herbert recalled. "When I spoke with him I always had the feeling he knew many, many things that other people did not know. And he had an especially good way of explaining things. But I never saw him reading science books. He never did that. And he never said to me, 'You must believe this' or, 'if you do not do that you cannot have this.' He was able to do too many things we never understood." Herbert found Meier's story to be "completely different" from what he had read in books about other so-called contactees. With the others, the writing was always from an earth perspective. "Adamski, Howard Menger, and many women say they have contacts with other intelligences from Mars or Venus," explained Herbert. "I read those books, too, but I know that what's written inside is totally crazy. They say we have life on Venus, and if you go to the other side of the moon there are cows and sunshine. Or the whole Earth is watched by UFOs that control everything. Or the UFO people are in the government in different countries. That's crazy. In Billy's writings, especially the first seven hundred pages or so of the contact notes, you always have the feeling this is not the mind of an earth person. It's completely different. I have known Billy too long a time, and Billy is not crazy."" " | ||
Indi Moderator Post Number: 506 Registered: 06-2006 |
Even though the above account from Kinder's book sounds glowing and nice, it is unfortunate that Herbert Runkel later turned into an antagonist, and along with Billy's wife Kalliope and others set about to discredit the case. There is an account of this in an article where Billy 'Answers his critics', and various Bulletins. You can do a search at the Figu German site under 'Runkel' and you will find a couple of references. I am not sure how I got an English copy of the 'Answers his critics' article -- it must be available somewhere -- maybe even on the Future of Mankind site. On the German site, there are examples of two photos that Runkel and another tampered with. When people give glowing reports about authenticity and then later change direction and actively seek to discredit, it causes much confusion and commotion down the track, as bits of truth combined with falsified info makes its way into the public arena, and is picked up by keen researchers into UFO matters. In the end, it is a mish mash of data, and it is no wonder that even on this forum, errors can be made thinking something is so when it is not. I also think that it is important for those of us studying the material, and interested in the truth, to not become too 'defensive' over what others say, as it is all in the interpretation of words on a screen, and does not allow for complete understanding of what is being offered and our interpretations of what someone means is often off track. The skeptic section of this forum was closed due in part to the inability of people on this forum to handle people questioning the case. If we become defensive when someone questions some aspect of the case, we are moving out of the realm of logic and reasoning ourselves, thus not allowing for progress in understanding why someone would question something, and how to help them through that problem area. I think it is healthy to examine the information that leads to weakness in the case -- it is never a good idea to dismiss critics without examining their offerings. We can often strengthen our own understanding of the case by doing that. I remember years ago now, being quite confused when first reading the case presented about the wedding cake ship. Dissonance was created within me at that time, and it required me to do a lot of work to settle it, and the exercise was very beneficial for me to go through. When someone such as this latest photographer fellow, reproduces quite well some shots similar to Billy's, it can lead in some people familiar to the case some feelings of dissonance, as I felt when seeing the WC info. I think this can be quite a normal reaction that some will have and after the initial feelings that arise, then one can actively use logic and reasoning to work it through. That takes longer for some than others and is an individual thing. Billy is a very good example of how to handle detractors etc.... as he does not get into an argument about it, he just states facts about it if pressed, hence his answers to his critics. He openly has discussed this and I think we could all remind ourselves when we are getting hot under the collar, that there cannot be a useful ending to an exchange conducted in that manner. Robyn | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 1309 Registered: 10-2007 |
*** Hi Earthling, Thank you for posting the account from Gary Kinder. I never realized that it was all online. That was the first book I had read some 30-years ago on Billy and his contacts. From that I simply had to know more, found the reference to Genesis III in the back of that book, and got everything they had then. I would encourage EVERYONE (especially any with lingering doubts or skeptical thoughts) to read this book Lightyears from Gary Kinder. Also available from: http://www.theyfly.com Peace *** ~~ TRUTH finds WISDOM finds LOVE finds PEACE -- Find What You Seek ~ Rod | ||
Michael_horn Member Post Number: 301 Registered: 07-2009 |
I think that Phil has done the case and all concerned a great service, here's why. He's done the absolutely best job of model making and set ups to approximate Meier's photos and films...but each has giveaway flaws that reveal it to not be authentic. And Meier's is the standard for authentic evidence. Closer examination and analysis would doubtless reveal the clear differences, show small models with distinct edges, close to the camera, etc. And with all of the time and manipulating that he had to do to get his shots, when Meier is backed by so many witnesses about how he simply went out and came back with full rolls of film, etc. and with never even the hint of models, rigging, poles, etc., Phil's efforts always come up short, despite his good craftsmanship. This is also why I wouldn't criticize his efforts, though his attitude is pretty out of whack. I do wonder if he'll lose his mind somewhat since he's also so invested in Meier being a hoaxer. | ||
Michael_horn Member Post Number: 302 Registered: 07-2009 |
Oooops! Actually that's not a book I carry; I think it's out of print. Good idea though, Rod. | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 1311 Registered: 10-2007 |
!!! Hi Michael, My bad, I thought that book was in the products list.  Peace !!! ~~ TRUTH finds WISDOM finds LOVE finds PEACE -- Find What You Seek ~ Rod | ||
Earthling Member Post Number: 463 Registered: 05-2008 |
Regarding this guy 'Phil' and his great models: how is he doing regarding fabulating models of 400+ contact report conversations, spiritual teachings, putting out all sorts of scientific data, predictions, prophecies and creating and maintaining a paradisaical center for all those interested in his work?? yeah, that's what I thought. It's like all these Jimi Hendrix imitators. They may get his sound and play the same mathematical sequence of notes but the spirit is missing in imitation and one's spirit is immature when one is satisfied being an imitator. Hendrix was not only a virtuosic player but a writer, composer, producer, live player on par with anyone, an entertainer and a ground breaker, something that an imitator will never be. Despite ones personal taste, the same goes for all imitators of a Mozart, Van Gogh, whomever is held in high regard over time. Hey Phil, don't you know something about imitation being the most sincere form of flattery? Yeah Phil, you're in love with Billy and you know he's the real deal. The same goes for Korff. They're both losers who got lost in jealousy of others work, instead of doing the hard work of personal evolution. | ||
Rarena Member Post Number: 586 Registered: 10-2005 |
Hi Everyone... Am still slowly making my way through the incredible volume of material from Billy Meier. No other author has been so prevelent and so outstanding in perserverence as our Swiss friend nor is anyone so on point with his concise and interesting way of telling it like it is... Someone mentioned above about those who require the evidence to be produced for their eyes... ie... "I'll believe it when I see it..." to me... in my mind this appears to be an artifact of our materialistic society; the need for physical evidence that we can see in order to know something is real. I don't know about oxygen, nor can I see it... but I've been kept alive by it for many years now... eh eh... The oxygen is there right now... but when it's not I will most certainly know as I'm gasping for breath because the acid rain from pollution caused by "leaking" oil wells cause acid rain that kills the oxygen regulators. So we use these two senses, deep emphatic feeling and correct positive neutral perception to figure out a way to stop these foreseen (as opposed to unforeseen) occurences. Meier has told us this would happen again and again and he warned us for over 60 years whether you believe in reincarnation or not. To me it is this forseen consequences he brings up that are the most important aspect of this case. The UFO's are secondary to me... Salome Together, we can move mountains... apart chaos. | ||
Calenwath Member Post Number: 26 Registered: 04-2010 |
Very true Rarena, I must say it is the same for me. The fact that I will never meet or see a Plejaren let alone a spacecraft capable of trans-galactic-dimensional flight is not even secondary, its not part of the equation. The Mission, the Silent Revelation of Truth, was for US the current Terran residents to look inwards, to take heed to what Billy has said, and take action on it. These are all truths. Blessed are those who have NOT seen and yet believe. Because we all recognize the Mission as spiritual truth, as food for our spiritual evolution, we must stop focusing on what we can see, hear, or smell, the material. This is a spirtual journey, and it is not a path that just anyone can take. Salome Shane | ||
Peter_brodowski Member Post Number: 519 Registered: 01-2004 |
hey there rarena, i agree, billy has an impressive collection of written materials, and the information contained in them is in a league of it's own. although i found the beamship photo's very attractive, i did not need them to know that billy is an honest person, whose message is worth my time of day. when you step out of your house, into the world outside... you could do so with closed eyes and still know that the energy that radiates against your face, is the rays of the sun. you don't need to see the sun to know it's there, when you can simply feel it. that is what it is like for me with billy's case, it is what i felt when looking at a picture of billy that led me to the conclusion that he is genuine, and not the beamship photo's or corroborated predictions. in my opinion, although this is a spiritual journey, anyone can take it's path, and everyone is, but some walk in circles. in anycase, all flowers have the potential to blossom, so then all flowers have the potential to produce nectar. | ||
Rarena Member Post Number: 587 Registered: 10-2005 |
Anyone... yes Peter. Thought by thought, feeling by feeling, life after life... we evolve. | ||
Sitkaa Member Post Number: 314 Registered: 10-2004 |
"in my opinion, although this is a spiritual journey, anyone can take it's path, and everyone is, but some walk in circles. in anycase, all flowers have the potential to blossom, so then all flowers have the potential to produce nectar." - Peter Thanks Peter, that's a really pretty picture you draw : ) Love is always the way | ||
Markcampbell Member Post Number: 507 Registered: 10-2008 |
The next time I walk out into the sun , I'll think of this profound saying . | ||
Calenwath Member Post Number: 27 Registered: 04-2010 |
I agree, very well put Peter. I was thinking of the many people out there who cannot or could not handle the realization that all the religions of this world are false, they are not ready to evolve spiritually. Perhaps in the next life for many people out there, but you are right in saying whether we want to believe it or not, we are all on the journey. Salome Shane | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 1322 Registered: 10-2007 |
*** Best Greetings All Friends of Billy, It is so that now the Humans of Earth do groan under the yoke of religious indoctrination equal to enslavement of the Spirit and Consciousness. We are given to know from Billy that this will not last more than another 500-years or so. The promise is given that the Truth of Creation, like a stone carved from the mountain, will roll on into the whole of Earth. The BAFATH have been removed from the Earth now, but their influence in the religious-politics of the Earth Humans will persist only another 200 - 300-years. There will yet be strange cults emerge during this period, still more disruptions in the global economy, still more shedding of the blood of the innocents, much unrest among those searching for Truth. But the "stone" of Truth will continue to roll on. It may be so for 800-years more from now until the Consciousness of the majority of the Earth Humans will come into Logic and Reason. We can expect that our Sciences will find the roots of the Universe in the Creation, the Sciences blended with the Spiritual Truths. In the meantime, you all are encouraged to take heart, to know that Truth WILL PREVAIL despite the machinations of the greedy self-centered materialistic irresponsible ones. We will stand fast in the face of the wanna-bes which tear at the doors to mock the Truth. We each are aware of our own self-responsibility for our Evolution in Knowledge, Truth, Wisdom and Spirit. For those which ask, the door will be open, and those which seek the clear waters of the Spirit, their thirst will be quenched. The Truth is FREE TO ALL. Here are some words from Billy which he has addressed to the Human Being of the Earth. This is among those posted on http://www.TheCircleForHumanity.net :::... http://www.thecircleforhumanity.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=190&Itemid=96&lang=en Peace is not just an 'option,' peace is the endgame of a united people in Truth Salome *** ~~ TRUTH finds WISDOM finds LOVE finds PEACE -- Find What You Seek ~ Rod | ||
Bodhran Member Post Number: 106 Registered: 08-2008 |
Hi all, the FIGU website was down today and there seems to be posts missing from the last few days anyone know what happened? Salome Tony. |
