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Archive for 2002 - 2003

Discussionboard of FIGU » General Area » Non-FIGU Related » Archived Topics » Skeptic's Corner » Archive for 2002 - 2003 « Previous Next »

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Howard
Posted on Monday, December 23, 2002 - 03:31 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As a christian, i must say; I have been deceived.
Because of a dream i had, about a starship coming to earth with JAHVE written on it. I must say, even billy was deceived, because schizophrenia has been groving like a flower, becoming FIGU. Meditation does not neccesary become without a God! It is because of Christ, and we should pay him the glory. Billy cant accept that others can have spiritual experience. But in the end, it all comes to this; it is when man tries to become like God, it goes wrong. Belief is the answer.
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Ilkka
Posted on Wednesday, December 25, 2002 - 10:52 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As a sceptic, I'd like to point out that according to logic (the domain of which no human can escape) everything concerning the world outside ourselves is nothing but speculation. So whether we think Christianity or Buddhism or Mr. Meier is right, it's a question of probabilities and what we think (or are made to think) of them.

Some people, like obviously Howard here, just forget to leave room for doubt where they should. There are just so many things you are "allowed" to really believe in, and God just isn't one of them, nor are the Plejarens.
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James the truthseeker
Posted on Wednesday, December 25, 2002 - 06:43 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Greetings Howard,

Hope you had a good Christmas!

Belief is a matter of "perspective' as many in different religions believe in their own diffinition as to what God really is, yet perhaps all faiths of the world should look into one common-all-ity over all differences as to a beginning for peace on earth. If God created all of us in his image, then just perhaps man in return created God in his own image. Something to think about when it come to religions. Personally I find that everyone beleives what they want to believe yet belief keeps us from the truth. To a point that's OK as long as no-one gets hurt.

Howard, feel free to read "everything" as to what FIGU is all about including "FAITH IS NOT THE PATH OF TRUTH", along with some of your own self discoveries into new spiritual insights and why people beleive what they do in all other religions. Take your time, read, and enjoy!

Thanks for your own spiritual insights.

James the truthseeker
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TerraX
Posted on Sunday, December 29, 2002 - 12:45 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi all.

I've been reading the German version of the discussion board lately and believe it or not there is quite an ammount of disagreement.The conversations are similar to those in the English version and even go a step further, people simply calling Billy a liar and a cheat.

FYI
TerraX
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Susanne Bardos
Posted on Thursday, January 02, 2003 - 12:42 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a question. When I first came upon the Billy site and read the contact articles I could not but wonder why we Humans had to fear for our lives from the Plearians if they were a peacefull people? In the beginning when we were created, non violent was their predisposition,why then must we have had to hide from them on Mars and Earth?
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Dan Frederiksen
Posted on Thursday, January 02, 2003 - 11:38 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How come the pricelist is only available in pdf format and in german??!!

Moderator: Go to www.billymeier.com for a description of booklets in English. If you know of somebody who has the time and skill to translate the pricelist from German into English (free of charge), please let us know. People in other countries are responsible for translating this material into their own language. FIGU only has a precious few who can read and write fluently in English, and who occasionally "help out" the English-speaking people by translating only a minute fraction of the material that is available in German.

an online product list in english and an ordering form with VISA payment might get this show off the ground

Moderator: The purpose is not to get any "show off the ground." It is only to make material available for people to come and read on their own volition.

Furthermore, the online pictures are way too small. If this is indeed not a hoax by some crazy swiss hippie then these pictures are of the most important topic in recorded history so why [unnecessary expletive deleted] not make at least the sample pictures available in their full resolution??
(1600x1200 or 2048x1536 should be enough to cover the resolution of the images)

Moderator: Maybe this is on the agenda for some point in the future. Send this question off to FIGU if you wish to get an answer on this and let us know what you find out (info@figu.org).

Moreover one thing that really hurts this case's plausability is that the camera does not move even in the videos. Since it doesn't move it makes it very possible that all the ufos, or beam ships as he calls them, are scale models.

Moderator: I can just imagine what else would be said if Billy did indeed move his cameras more when filming. The cry for more proof would still escalate to something else, and so on, and so on. Beyond the immense body of evidence -- photos, irreproducible sound recordings, metal analyses, many eyewitnesses, there is much more scientific proof (very accurate prophecies and predictions, etc.) that needs to be considered as well. Some people will never be satisfied, no matter how much evidence is provided.

IF you talk to semjase, or any other hot mamma from outer space, ask her if you can take pictures AROUND it so that it will be possible to rule out faking by using small models.

The close up of the one that looks like a horisontal hub cap with some christmas balls on top is out of focus although the rest of the image is not. This effect is REALLY hard to explain with anything else than a small model much closer to the camera than the rest.

Moderator: Apparently, you haven't seen the video footage (not 8mm film footage) taken in 1981 where Billy zooms clear across a large meadow toward the so-called "hub cap" (actually a smaller unmanned telemeter disk some 12 feet in diameter) which is hovering next to a tall fir tree. If that's a hub cap with Christmas ornaments on it, I'd be curious if you could explain how he did this, especially when you see him walk in front of the camera while filming it.

As if this wasn't enough, what's up with the 1960's-scifi-looking-person that is partially visible in the right side of one of the 3 wallpapers available for download??

Moderator: That's the protective "suit" of one of the extraterrestrials (not a Pleiadian/Plejaran).

I have many more questions of concern but let's begin with these. anyone?
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Yaisuz
Posted on Saturday, January 04, 2003 - 03:04 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Billy has not provide us with undeniable fact.

The story about those metal sample sent to IBM scientist,its just really lame.... how can that very important thing is missing ?????

too bad billy's nose doesn't grows longer everytime he doesn't tell the truth.
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Ilkka
Posted on Saturday, January 04, 2003 - 10:20 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Regarding German people, I remember reading somewhere that according to a survey they often believe in horoscopes and all kinds of spiritual and new age stuff, but quite rarely in UFO-related things. Perhaps this explains something.
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Marc Juliano
Posted on Saturday, January 04, 2003 - 10:19 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello Susanne,

Could you please explain your question in more detail? I don't understand what you mean when you say that we humans had to fear for our lives regarding the Plejarans. From where do you derive this (please be specific).

Hello Dan,

See answers to your questions within your posting.

Hello Yaisuz,

I don't know the exact story concerning the metal samples (from the 70s) and why they're missing. But like many other valuable items of Billy's (photo negatives, film footage, etc.), I can only assume they were stolen. Billy has more sample given to him in the early 90s which will most likely not be given to anybody for examination, unless perhaps it is done under extremely special circumstances (e.g. they are examined/tested on Billy's own property).

(Actually, if the nose-growing-because-of-telling-lies thing applied to everyone in the world, I think most of us would need to be working as plastic surgeons...provided you can navigate out of your house in the morning without breaking your nose.)

Hello Ikka,

What does it explain?

Regards,
Marc
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Dan Blatecky
Posted on Saturday, January 04, 2003 - 10:36 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dan' on the said pictures of a timeship and said wallpaper backrounds.

There is one photo of a Pleiadean timeship, which is hovering above a VW bus, near the Meier farm.

What you'll notice, is that there are gradations of light to dark, beneath of the said Pleiadean timeship, rather than any clear demarkation which would not indicate any said wallpaper back round?

I say Pleiadean instead of Plejerian.

I definatly do so, as one of the parts of the English language, the word Please, comes from the world Pleides.

I don't care what they call them.

The so called Plejerians, will to me always be called and refered to me, as the Pleiadeans.

This term from me, till Earth's hell freezes over.

Meier's not a hippie either.

Maybe if you had your arm torn off and left for dead, in half the things that Billy had done, you would speak a little more respectfully?

I'm not defending Billy. I'm just saying Billy has lived a little, certainly traveled, and is probably has the most gaul and bravery, of anyone I have ever read about.

Dirty laundry yes, but a coward and a fruit?; never sir.
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Dan Frederiksen
Posted on Sunday, January 05, 2003 - 02:18 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Marc

You seem to be the only one lucid enough to understand my questions : )

Agreed the imagery is impressive but if even a single image is a fraud then the entire case falls apart. I still can't think of any reason why the large hub cap hovering over the VW would be out of focus when the rest isn't unless it is much smaller.

On the matter of moving the camera when filming, I agree that no matter how good the evidence, people will always want more. BUT if he did move the camera on the 1981 recording it would however demonstrate beyond any doubt that the object was real since such compositing was virtually impossible in 1981 and still very dificult. It would of course not prove that it was extraterrestrial but debunkers would then have to claim that someone built a full scale model and hung it in a tree.
I for one would be without doubt then

-Dan
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Dan Frederiksen
Posted on Sunday, January 05, 2003 - 02:30 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And by the way Marc

About the scifi character in the 3rd wallpaper for download:
Am I to understand that the visitors had a weapon!!?? and one that looks like a cheap toy?

-Dan
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Michael
Posted on Monday, January 06, 2003 - 10:48 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Dan,

I understand, or assume, that you may be unfamiliar with the breadth and depth of the Meier case. A couple of things. You can go to: www.andyettheyfly.com and download the sound sample of the UFO made by Meier and his wife in 1980 outdoors, on a cassette machine, in front of 15 other witnesses. It remains irreproducible today. Perhaps you can be the one to duplicate it using any technology at your disposal.

Many of us have "moved on" regarding the photos and films because people will want to argue and make claims, etc. over something which is hard to prove. I did take Meier's photos and films to CFI West, a professional skeptics' group in Los Angeles (associated with both the "Amazing" Randi and Kal Korff.) They told me the photos and films were "easily duplicated hoaxes" so I invited them to reproduce ONE photo and ONE film...with any technology they wanted.

It is just short of two years and they have failed to back up their assertions.

More importantly, we have spent some time researching the prophetically accurate, highly specific scientific and world event-related information that Meier published from 1 to more than 20 years BEFORE "official" discovery or occurrence. This body of information virtually proves the authenticity of the Meier contacts beyond a reasonable doubt.

Since many people on the forum are already familiar with it, and there isn't space enough to reproduce it here, if you wish to contact me I will send you some of it.

Michael
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Marc Juliano
Posted on Tuesday, January 07, 2003 - 12:14 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello Dan,

The so-called "wedding cake" ship was a ship (or series of ships) that the Pleiadians/Plejarans (the P's) used for special purposes on Earth. The ships were virtually identical in shape yet varied in size: a small 3.5 meter unmanned, remote-controlled "drone" (the one seen hovering in front of the large, distant tree across the meadow in the 1981 video footage); a 7-meter manned ship; a 14-meter manned ship; and a 21-meter manned ship1.

The ship that appears to be hovering over a small van (actually much more in front of it, much closer to the camera, in my opinion) is the 7-meter ship. There are several subsequent shots in Meier's archives where he snaps the undercarriage of the ship. In these, some fine detail emerges (reddish crystals of uniform size, mounted in gold-colored sleeves with no apparent seams/gaps). It doesn't surprise me that the ship at this location would be slightly out-of-focus, since the van's distance appears to fall in the (near) infinity setting of the camera in this shot--the ship appears closer to the camera, but not close enough (as with a small model) to cause excessive blurring.

One has to keep in mind the heavy magnetism involved too which may have affected many of the photos involving this particular ship. Here's a rough translation of a quote2 from Meier on this:

"About 17:10, Quetzal [the name of one of the P's] informed me that he had examined the videotapes and realized that the new beamship's radiation is so strong that it destroys (all) videotapes that come closer than 471 meters to the ship. Slide and negative films are also negatively affected by the strong magnetism, because when the ship comes too close, the photos are distorted, i.e. the ship's contours show wavelines on the photos and appear asymmetrical. Through the strong magnetism, the air is trembling/quivering/vibrating as it does when heated. Additionally he told me that my lead box (that was sheeted with 6mm lead plates) was entirely useless against the ship's magnetism. [The lead-plated box was intended to attempt to protect his camera from the magnetism.]"

By the way, Meier DOES move his video camera in the 1981 taping. In the middle of the segment, he loosens his camera from the tripod mount, angles it up in the air (making the distant tree and ship drop down in frame, shaking and so on) then repositions it. View the RealPlayer file of this sequence on FIGU's web site, or, if it's not included there or the quality is too low, see if you can get the video Ausschnitte/Reportagen (Excerpts/Reports) from FIGU. It has the whole sequence in all its exquisite detail. It comes in PAL video format, so you'd have to convert it, unless FIGU can provide you with NTSC (U.S. format).

Regards,
Marc

1Source: From memory based on personal dialog with Billy Meier in 1995.
2Source: Text provided by C. Frehner of FIGU.
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James the truthseeker
Posted on Sunday, January 05, 2003 - 05:40 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Greetings Susanne,

The ET beings you are refering to whom the human had to fear where not the Plejarans, but rather the "Overlords of Sirius" from the 2nd lineage of Enoch. The Plejarans in contact with Billy are from the first lineage of Enoch.

The Creater overlords with a genetic non-violent predisposition, realized the danger of their new genetic yet very aggressive created human beings who soon would became a possible threat to them and other places in the universe which is still possible today if humanity here obtains hyper space travel.

To Yaisuz,

Do to the fact that Billy's nose never grows, should really prove something good about him in itself!

James the truthseeker
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Ilkka
Posted on Sunday, January 05, 2003 - 06:18 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Marc,

my comment was for TerraX's post about the German forum's more hostile environment, which I should have mentioned. Not sure if it makes sense though.
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Dan Frederiksen
Posted on Tuesday, January 07, 2003 - 12:37 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Michael
The size of the case is irrelevant if the details are wrong. Deal with the issues.

Picture nr 6 looks like a cardboard model. the edge is crooked which is something one would not expect to see in an interstellar craft

Picture nr 829 of the "hub cap" is out of focus and the background is not. Still no defense

Picture nr 720 has overlaying features which can only be a double exposure or long time exposure with intermittent camera movement. why if not a fake?

And this is only from the few thumbnail pictures available on the site.
I challenge anyone to explain these discrepancies
and please don't waste my time with broad statements like I am not familiar with the "depth of the Meier case".

And Michael I would actually be able to reproduce any of these images. Some of the models would take some time to build since they have more detail (like nr. 200) but it could be done. This doesn't mean that they are fake it simply means that they are not proof in themselves. As I said a video sequence with a moving camera around a hovering craft is far more dificult to reproduce and I would hope that mr Meier would call in the Plaiedians to pose for one more publicity photo.
Especially considering recent improvements in camera technology.

About the sound. I had heard it and it didn't impress me. Again I am quite certain that such a sound could easily be manufactured. A thing about it that was particularly unimpressive is an echo effect that is often used in motion pictures to give a mystical effect. If anyone can explain how such an echo could emerge from the engine of a craft I would again love to hear it.

-Dan
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Michael
Posted on Tuesday, January 07, 2003 - 08:27 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dan,

Pardon me, and perhaps many of us, if we're not jumping through hoops because of the way things "look" to you or because you say you could reproduce the photos, etc.

Save all of us some time and reproduce them. As for the sounds, again, you simply haven't done your homework. There were 32 separate and simultaneously occurring sounds detected. 24 of them were audible and 8 were inaudible, only detected by their appearance on a spectrum analyzer and oscilloscope. The professional analysis of the sounds and their patterns further revealed that they were, to put it simply, unique and irreproducible.

In a three-year period, Meier took close to 1500 clear daytime photos of up to 4 ships at a time. All of this while raising a family, avoiding assassination attempts, etc. and with only one arm. If you wish to be in the ranks of those who prefer to attribute to Billy genius level accomplishments in photography, special effects, model building, metallurgy, sound engineering, etc., (all without the necessary technology, financial resources and accomplices) as well as psychic and prophetic abilities beyond reason and imagination...enjoy yourself.

So, as far as your statement goes "This doesn't mean that they are fake it simply means that they are not proof in themselves." We have already acknowledged that even though neither you nor the other professional skeptics and debunkers are able to duplicate the photos, films, etc. Pay attention, the proof is in the material and information that Meier published well prior to discovery and/or occurrence. I know, you could "probably" do that too but somehow I just don't think you have or are going to.

Make it interesting for us, do your homework.

Michael
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Dan Frederiksen
Posted on Tuesday, January 07, 2003 - 01:59 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Marc
didn't see you post right away. the ordering of the posts in here are for some reason not chronological.

Moderator: The timestamp on the postings should be local to your area. So if you're in Switzerland, for instance, and you create a posting at the same time as someone in California, your timestamp will show as nine hours more than the Californian. I consolidated your postings into this one. If you can manage to get all your comments/questions on any given day into one posting as opposed to many small ones, that would help on the moderator end. Thanks.

Anyway thanks for the serious reply but is doesn't explain away my concerns and here's why:
I know from the available 1981 clip that he zooms in and out again and I believe you when you say that he rotates the camera but neither of those would reveal a model hoax. By movement I mean "translation" to use a technical term; not rotation. (I will elaborate if you want)

About the "wedding cake" (picture nr 829) I agree that if it is a small dish if would be closer to the camera than the van so it would not be hanging above it. But the difference in focus is massive and if the ship is only a few meters in diameter the lense diameter would have to be truly huge to produce such a strong depth-of-field blur on such a large object. Even if the lense was huge it would have a visible depth of field blur difference between the van and the horizon so even that extreme does not offer an explanation. As far as some exotic effect of the ships systems being the cause of the blur I cannot say, but that raises the question why that hasn't been the case in other pictures.

-Dan

----------
Oh and by the way Marc

thanks for the indirect compliment to my language abilities but I am not American, but Danish and PAL video is what we use here in Europe : )

-Dan
----------

And one more thing (sorry for the many posts Marc)

If you need vounteer work I would be more than happy to aid in making digital versions of the figu media material. I am quite good at that and I believe that I could produce a very satisfiable quality to offer on the figu website to the information hungry world. If you can have arranged for the material to be sent to me I will gladly do it and if you understandly don't trust me we could start with a single images and I could demonstrate what I could offer.

-Dan
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Marc Juliano
Posted on Tuesday, January 07, 2003 - 11:56 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Dan,

Generally, a lot of the "homework" regarding photo analyses, etc. requires a lot more data than you or I can acquire, simply due to the time factor (1975-78) and not having investigated the contact sites and received the (alleged) exact or approximate locations of the ship by the photographer. Of course, this still can be done and Mr. Meier would probably oblige if you were serious about investigating the sites.

As a side note, I did investigate the site of Fuchsbüel with the help of others where Meier photographed the tree-circling series of photos and we determined it impossible for him to have used small models around a small tree simply due to the lay of the land and "high framing" of the shots on a downhill slope.

Regarding blur and distortion: emission of beamship energy causing these effects has been documented in the case since Meier's very first contact (see photos 1113 and 6). By the way, Nr. 6 is a photo known to have been manipulated by someone tying to debunk Meier either via the photo lab or elsewhere. We're told the original negative, showing a beamship that had landed in a meadow fairly distant from the camera, was cropped to an extremely large degree and enlarged--the tripod landing legs being the most obvious target of the manipulation. The distortion is apparent in the contour of the ship and the fact that the background is more out-of-focus than the foreground. Meier documents in detail the undulating and oscillating "heat" effect that caused the ships and/or background scenery to dynamically move in and out of focus, as well as warp, when he was filming.

Here's an interesting observation about the video of the wedding cake ship videotaped in '81: The ship was also simultaneously photographed with a still camera. You can compare two shots at this location on FIGU's site. I'm not certain if both photos are from the still camera, or if the closeup is a captured frame from the video. But notice the elliptically shaped, dark underside of the craft in both pictures. The apparent curvature of the rim flange in the closeup shot is more pronounced than the distant shot, which for me easily rules out the idea of Meier rigging a large, 2D cardboard photo on the tree. This, besides the obvious fact that the craft is vertically high and in front of the tree (and no doubt appears as highly reflective metal) which would put considerable weight on the upper limbs if we're talking about a 12 ft. metallic model.

Regarding your digital capabilities, can you contact me by e-mail on this?

Marc
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Jim Deardorff
Posted on Wednesday, January 08, 2003 - 08:39 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dan,

Regarding the (7m-diameter) wedding-cake WC) craft hovering close to the camera, with the little tractor somewhat farther away. We all agree that the front side of the WC craft is way out of focus. OK, now look at those downward pointing protuberances, they're near the middle of the craft's underside. They're less out of focus. Now follow the lower outer edge of the craft around on the right until it disappears behind the middle section. It's farthest from the camera. Look how it is in as good focus as the tractor. This tells us about the size of the craft. The front edges are way out of focus, the rearmost edge is in good focus. Therefore it could not have been any small model.

Jim Deardorff
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Steve
Posted on Tuesday, January 07, 2003 - 03:40 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi

In regards to what was mentioned about the Plejarens being from the first lineage of Enoch, can anybody explain this to me?

Moderator: In Contact 251, it explains the emigration of the so-called "Tribes of Henoch/Enoch" billions of years ago. One faction of these various races emigrated to the Lyra/Vega systems, and their distant descendants are today's Plejarans.

are the Plejarens related by descent in some way to Enoch and his people?

Thanks
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Dan Blatecky
Posted on Monday, January 13, 2003 - 09:23 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Again what I feel the problem is with the Pleadeans, even though they have addopted a higher social standing, is that they have never filed papers to the formal goverments of this Earth!
These papers were to be filed, in some way, involving their presence known here on Earth?

These were to be papers of their intentions, what their homeworld's about, as well as other particulars are to be placed within these discloure papers.

These papers of intent should have been filed as public documents to all parties concerned?

This action as a good will gesture by the Pleadeans is the least that they should have done.

By not fileing these papers, then the Pleadeans are in contempt of the legal systems of Earth, even if these systems in some instance are known to be corrupt.

By them not doing these required submissions within galactic eyes of law, they have invalidated any presence of their's here on Earth.

This on their part is not a fair action nor propisition.

I'm sorry, I like and care for some the parties invovled, however the nonfileing neglegent actions of the Pleadeans can and should not be overlooked.

Dan B
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James the truthseeker
Posted on Friday, January 17, 2003 - 10:49 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Greetings Dan,

Even if the Plejarans where to file such papers of intent, immigration, etc, what makes you think that such governments will disclose such information publicly??? Who's to say that the Plejarans haven't done just as your saying??? Sorry Dan!, you seem to be forgetting about the "Brookings Report"!

Secondly there was the "MJ12 documents"! If you really want to know what these are about, then just perhaps you can try walking onto AREA 51 and ask for them from the first security officer who shows up. That is if he is kind enough to show these to you and not through you in jail first for walking on to the base. An internet such of these would perhaps be a much safer pre-caution.

Lastly, lets not forget about the "Dulce Papers"!

Perhaps you should touch up a bit on you're UFO research before asking such questions, eh!

Peace in knowing,
James the truthseeker
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Dan Frederiksen
Posted on Saturday, January 18, 2003 - 10:12 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Jim Deardorff
thanks for dealing with the issues but here's the problems with your argument:
(Picture Nr. 829)

1) For the leading edge to be so much out of focus when the rest isn't, it would have to be close enough to the lens to be affected by the aperture size of the lens. I did a few experiments here and my best guess is as follows: If the "cake" was very small (like 3 feet) and the aperture was very large (1") that would be consistent with the image. If the craft is as large as Marc said (7 meters) then the aperture would have to much larger than any camera I know of and even then it would not be consistent with the rest of the image.

2)In the image I look at (nr 829) I see no great sharpness difference between leading and trailing edge of the cake and certainly not so much as to make the trailing edge as sharp as the background.

If it is indeed a larger craft then only Marc's hypothesis that the craft produced optical distortions is the only explanation that I cannot discount but again it seems a little too convenient that a distortion that exactly mimics Z-focus blur would occur.

-Dan
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Dan Frederiksen
Posted on Saturday, January 18, 2003 - 11:17 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Michael
I can see there is a post from january 7 that I missed from you.

I don't particularly see why I should have to reproduce the images so you wouldn't have to answer simple question as to the validity of the images. I will however offer a plan as to how it could be done:

(Photo nr 64)
1)Make a rough model in styrofoam and perhaps 4 feet diameter (like the way surfboards are done)

2)Cover it in plaster to make a harder smoother surface and sand it to make edges nice and round

3)Have it "silver" coated to make it mirror like
(I know this can be done on basically any material - seen it done on an old baby shoe)

4)Put a beam in one side and fasten it to a tree

5) take a picture

As I said I could easily do it but even if I thought it would be worth the effort in order to to convince any of you, I would be hessitant to make it because producing fakes of such an important issue seems very wrong.

About the sound: I listened to it a couple of times and I ran it through a spectrum analyzer and
I didn't find anything in there that should be magically irreproducible. Would you mind explaining what makes it so or refer to the expert that made those conclusions?
I am a computer scientist and I happen to know a little bit about what sound is. For example I have done projects on speech synthesis and recognition.
Since it is me that haven't done my homework then might I ask you, what makes you an audio expert Michael?

-Dan
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Michael
Posted on Saturday, January 18, 2003 - 06:45 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Dan,

Of course I'm sure you "could" duplicate the photos but you have your reasons for not doing so. Almost like the professional skeptics at CFI West (associated with ths "Amazing" randi and Kal Korff) who told me that Meier's photos and films were "easily duplicated hoaxes" and who at least accepted the challenge to duplicate them. Two years later and they've presented...nothing. Big surprise.

Perhaps you could go to the FIGU site and read "An Open Letter to the UFO Community" by Gary Kinder. He interviewed scientists and special effects people who gave their expert opinion on the Meier photos.

And perhaps you would consider that the one-armed Meier took nearly 1500 hundred such photos (some with four of your "surfboard" technology UFOs in them) in a 3-year period without any known accomplices, technologies to hoax them, etc. Frankly, this is the kind of thing that makes me wonder what kind of common sense people have and, more importantly, how Meier kept his sanity when dealing with all the debunkers and know-it-alls.

As far as the sounds are concerned, at the risk of disrupting the space considerations on the Forum this is from the investigation:

"Semjase’s Beamship During a Demonstration Flight

Another sound analysis that was filmed with professional cameras on high-grade 16 mm film was performed in the Excalibur Studios in Studio City, California. There, Nils Rognerud and Steve Singer, sound engineers and designers of electronic systems, worked on a Hewlett Packard spectrum analyzer (Model 3580) that contained a memory unit, a dual-channel oscilloscope, a multi-track mixer with amplitude output, and a full-frequency sound-control panel; they studied and analyzed a 30-second segment of the aforementioned sounds and a longer segment of the spaceship sounds that were recorded in front of fifteen witnesses.

This tape recording was made on July 7, 1980, in Ober-Sädelegg, Switzerland. There, the sounds of the new Variant III ship were recorded for forty-eight minutes in front of fifteen witnesses with a total of four cassette recorders. Meier had three recorders with him: an Aiwa with an audio suppression unit, in order to prevent distortions of the excessive decibels by means of limiting, as well as two smaller and cheaper portable cassette recorders without volume suppression. Meier positioned himself approximately sixty to eighty meters below the point from which the sounds in the sky appeared to come.

Meier’s wife Kalliope used her own Aiwa recorder. She and Jacobus Bertschinger, Engelbert and Maria Wächter, Eva Bieri, and two of Meier’s children remained approximately 488 yards west of the position taken by Meier, who had gone to a point on the other side of a group of tree trunks that can be seen on the first of the Ober-Sädelegg photographs taken on March 8, 1975.

On this day, the sounds were so loud that two members of the D. family, who lived a half-mile away, ran out to see what was causing all of the noise. They came just in time to observe the final minutes of the recording operation. Several inhabitants of the small hamlet of Zinggen, approximately three kilometers away, ran up the mountain in search of the source of the strange noise, which had been heard by many of the inhabitants. The sounds stopped when the new arrivals appeared on the scene.

From Meier’s position, the noise was a deafening screeching sound that was so loud that Meier had to lay the recorder on the ground so that he could wrap his jacket around his head. Even after doing so, he had an excruciating headache that lasted for hours. Until the next day, he was unable to hear anything and his eyes hurt. The recordings made by Ms. Meier from a half-kilometer away were clearer than the tape that Meier had made at close range. The distance was so great that we could not understand each other at the scene, even when we yelled; therefore, we had to send runners back and forth.

Now, the sound specialists examined this new segment of the recorded sounds and found the same as the previous teams. They found these sounds to be truly unique in three respects:

1. There were at least thirty or more discrete frequencies in a random and constantly shifting mix that ranged from 4 to 2170 Hz, but varied on average between 470 and 1452 Hz.

2. The amplitude of these frequencies was also constantly changing, whereby the dominance alternated.

3. The wave shape was also constantly changing in a random, periodic rhythm that caused a characteristic beat. The wave pattern in the oscilloscope showed this constant and random shift in frequency, in which the principal waves of all frequencies came together in perfect synchronization at one moment, only to travel at the next moment in different directions and stages, thereby generating different patterns—at one moment seemingly moving in a cluster in one direction and, at the next moment, in the other direction. Then they gradually expanded until, for one moment, they formed a mutually precise and evenly distributed pattern, only then to move again into different relationships. Although these changes appeared to be random and were not repeated in a particular order, they always appeared in geometric relationship to one another.

Two other sound engineers and a synthesizer sound specialist joined the analysis team, and the sounds were reexamined, this time for possible duplication. All of these specialists agreed that the character of the sounds was unique and that any type of synthesis, if in fact such was possible, could produce only portions of the recordings we had examined and that duplicating only part of the sounds, even in a short linear segment, would be impossible. The number of traveling and constantly shifting discrete frequencies and constantly changing amplitudes, which were shifting in relative dominance, exhibited duplication problems that exceed the abilities of a current state-of-the-art device!. . .”

Sources: Lt. Col. Wendelle C. Stevens: “UFO contact from the Pleiades, A Preliminary Investigation Report”; “A Supplementary Investigation Report”; Ing. Alfred Buberl: “Worauf warten wir noch?” (What Are We Waiting For?)

Sound Analysis

The strange whirring sounds of the Pleiadian-Pleiarian spaceships could be recorded several times on tape, for example, twice during the spring of 1976 (at the Frecht Nature Preserve near Hinwil on Good Friday and at Schmärbüel-Maiwinkel on April 14th), and, finally, on July 7, 1980, in Ober-Sädelegg near Schmidrüti (a copy of this recording can be purchased as an audiocassette from FIGU). Regarding the first recording, Wendelle C. Stevens writes: “As they (Eduard Meier and a few eyewitnesses) arrived at the aforementioned location, they all waited for more than an hour. Then Meier walked alone approximately one hundred meters into the meadow clearing. There he stopped, positioned his tape recorder, turned it on, and held the microphone up in the air. According to Hans Schutzbach, a strange whirring, buzzing noise, which was constantly changing, sounded from approximately thirty meters above them. The noise was a kind of mixture between a jet engine and a high-speed saw processing a piece of metal in many variations. The noise increased and decreased in intensity and pitch, apparently in a random sequence, and sometimes, it completely died away, only then to return to its full intensity. . . . The tones clearly reached the witnesses in spite of the wind. The noise lasted approximately ten minutes, and then it stopped when intruders arrived on the scene in a VW ‘Beatle’. Its two passengers looked at Meier with great interest. One looked through a pair of binoculars. A moment later, another man came along, accompanied by a German Shepherd on a leash. Two motorcycles approached from a different direction. Everyone was interested in the clearing where Meier stood and above which the very loud noise could be heard. It turned out that the two men in the Volkswagen were forestry workers. The man with the dog was a plain-clothes cantonal policeman. The arrival of the others was surprising, since no one else had been present when the group (i.e., Billy’s companions) arrived.

Normally, Meier does not hear such loud ship noises, certainly not for such a long time. At the most, there is usually a very short noise when the spaceship lands or takes off. This demonstration was intentionally given for the purpose of the tape recording.

None of the other eyewitnesses saw any type of spaceship, but Meier said that he could see it from below and observe a strange effect. As the sound went up on the scale, the ship became more transparent, and when the pitch became lower, it looked denser again.

Since they themselves had not seen the ship, the witnesses began to discuss the incident and speculate upon how this could have happened. They took Meier’s tape recorder, along with the tape, back to the same location and positioned it in the same manner as Meier had done. Then, they adjusted it to full volume. This time, the sound seemed to come from ground level and was quite soft. It was certainly coming from the loud speaker of the recorder. The sound was so weak that, in order to hear the sound at almost the same volume, the witnesses were forced to stand more than twice as close to the device as they had on Good Friday. They looked for signs of loud speakers that could have been hung in the trees, but they found nothing. . . .

On April 14, 1976, Eduard Meier was contacted by his extraterrestrial visitors, summoned to a particular location, and asked to bring his camera and tape recorder. He followed their telepathic directives and reached the area of Schmärbüel und Maiwinkel, south of Bettswil.

He did not have to wait very long—due to a Swiss Army military exercise in the area, he was late in arriving–and already heard the familiar spaceship sounds. Searching the horizon, he spotted the extraterrestrial ship, a 7-meter Variation 111 Version flying northwest inside the hillcrest. Shortly thereafter, he heard the sounds of a jet fighter. He took out his camera and shot pictures of the approaching spaceship. Then he saw the jet fighter, a Mirage 111 of the Swiss Army, heading straight for the Pleiadian ship. He turned on the tape recorder and continued to take pictures of the attempted interception. As the jet fighter approached the round ET ship, the spacecraft quickly ‘shot’ up, allowed the jet fighter to pass, and then returned to its original position. This manoeuvering continued in this manner for twenty-two passes by the jet fighter. During this time, Meier took fourteen pictures of the ET ship, ten of which included the jet fighter. . . . The first picture of this series was taken at 4:14 p.m. and the last, at 4:24 p.m. He recorded a little more than six minutes of this skirmish. . . .

Jim Dilettoso, our research consultant, took samples of this noise to Peter Gimer and Rick Coupland of Micor in San Francisco. There they performed tests in the audible range, from 20 Hz to 2000 HZ. They found twenty-four characteristic frequencies within the audible range and eight outside of it. They found all thirty-two frequencies concurrently at different amplitudes and volumes. All thirty-two tones are somehow produced simultaneously. In a time matrix, the amplitude of some frequencies increases, while that of others decreases. It was observed that the amplitude periodically increased by ca. fifty decibels and then decreased by ca. forty, and at other times, just the opposite was the case, which produced the characteristic beat that was audible. Other normal sounds were audible on the recording, but there were no signs of a tone-on-tone tape dubbing. All frequencies were clear and stable, and they were regularly lined up along the frequency scale.

A portion of these recordings was also given to Robin L. Shellman, an undersea sound technician, who studied them with a spectrum analyzer (a state-of-the-art device) built by Spectro Dynamics in San Diego. The demodulation showed that one must be dealing with a rotating device—249.6 U/min. modulated at 4.16 Hz.

The high-speed device produced a sound that began at 520 Hz and increased in steps up to 990 Hz, only then to decrease again down to 520 Hz in the same frequency steps. The tonal groups comprising 520 Hz disappeared together at 520 Hz and reappeared at 600 Hz, only to disappear again at 720 Hz. At 990 Hz, however, they reappeared and were very strong. The same occurred in the other direction. The condition remained stable for a moment and then shifted again. This shift was somehow random, but nevertheless constant. At certain times, the high-speed device was still, and a deep, throbbing beat was audible; and then the high-speed rotation began again, and the sound increased rapidly to a high vibrating crescendo in the upper 50,000 U/min. range or higher. Simultaneously, the slower 249.6 U/min.-rotation again became audible. The vibration was produced by the high-speed rotation of approximately 29,000 U/min., which accelerated to over 59,000 U/min. This was most certainly not a normal sound!

These sounds were brought to the Naval Undersea Sound Center in Groton, Connecticut, where Steven Williams and Howard Ilson–both from NU.S.C–used different equipment to obtain visual data representations. Initially, they identified all sounds that did not originate in the target object. Three conventional airplanes were discovered, two of which were propeller-driven. The third was a single-engine jet. Frequency graphics were prepared, and attempts were made to find consistencies in the ‘sound archives’. The first airplane to be identified was a ‘Pilatus Porter’, a light, single-motor Swiss Army reconnaissance plane. Its ‘Doppler effect’ showed that the plane was flying at approximately forty to fifty knots, which corresponded to the actual progression on the tape recorder, but which also corresponds to the normal speed of an airplane on a reconnaissance flight.

The second plane was identified as a Junker JU-52, an old tri-motor transport plane that was built in 1933. And again, the frequencies of the plane motors exhibited a linear movement, calculated with the Doppler shift. This plane moved away, turned slightly, and then flew off on its way toward the recording.

When we listened to the tape ourselves, we never heard these sounds, which is why we had to examine this information. One can imagine our surprise when we discovered that the Swiss Army Pilatus Porter planes were routinely used for reconnaissance flights; and even more astounding was the confirmation that the Junker planes, JU-52 Transporters, were still being used for skydiving flights and that one had been used on this day in the area of Bettswil! All of this fit together perfectly.

The third plane was a single-motor Mirage jet fighter. With respect to conventional plane sounds, no unusual characteristics were determined. Furthermore, background noises that were discovered included a small barking dog, a crowing rooster, a European police siren, and some clicks and vibrations, possibly the clicking of a camera shutter release.

In this study, no consistency of the targeted sound of the spaceship was discovered in the ‘sound archives’."
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Michael
Posted on Saturday, January 18, 2003 - 07:06 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dan,

As far as "proving" the authenticity of the photos, films, sound sample and the video and metal samples that I don't think you've yet addressed, it's rather old news and not the focus of what I'm doing. Photos of the UFOs have been taken by a number of other people besides Billy, some at least as recently as May of 2000 where there were some 17 witnesses present.

But, as I indicated, some of us are not here to argue about "hubcaps", "garbage can lids" and all the other nifty explanations for what any reasonable person could tell are objects of unknown origin, at the very least.

My focus has been on Meier's prophetically accurate, highly specific scientific and world event-related information published from 1 to more than 20 years BEFORE "official" discovery or occurrence. We have literally dozens of documented examples and have seen evidence of tons more in unofficial English translations of Meier's later contacts.

I imagine you have an explanation for this, as a matter of fact, I'd really like to hear it.

After researching all the English language material I could get my hands on I can only conclude that Meier is the most credible source of (advance) information I know of. One of the purposes of the nearly three decades of the publicized contacts, in my opinion, has been to establish such impeccable credibility with the intention that maybe, just maybe, earth people would listen to and heed some warnings as to what kind of an insane and painful future we are creating for ourselves with our ignorant thoughts and actions.

UFOs are, at least or at best, somebody else's aircraft. As fascinating as that may be it doesn't mean as much to me as the information and attempted assistance that these people have offered.

In the time that most critics, skeptics and debunkers have spent hassling over the physical evidence and claiming it's all hoaxed, Meier produced an immense body of such evidence, thousands of pages of unique information, raised his family, survived 19 assassination attempts and did it all with the proverbial one arm behind his back. Isn't it funny that none of the people who confidently claim that Meier's incredibly good photographic evidence is hoaxed have gone on to make a fortune in special effects themselves?

Michael
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Michael
Posted on Saturday, January 18, 2003 - 07:51 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Some other thoughts...

How come there are so many people who "could" duplicate Meier's photos who didn't themselves present such photos years ago when, or before, Meier did? How come so many UFOs photographed later, since Meier started publishing his photos, look so much like the ones Meier shot?

How come, in all these years, there hasn't been a small flood of films or videos exceeding the quality of Meier's? How come nobody else has presented metal alloy smaples for scientific examination or presented sound recordings of the quality Meier did?

How come people wonder why ETs don't land and have coffee with us when it's so obvious that we're dense headed know-it-alls lacking common sense and basic reasoning skills but overloaded in the aggression department?

Michael
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Steve Kilsby
Posted on Monday, January 20, 2003 - 11:23 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not sure who im supposed to address this too, So to you who i should adress this,i adress this....

This is a question kind of related to skeptism, but not that targeted towards Eduard Albert Meier-Zafiriou, i was wondering what your thoughts (and meier's) of Alec Newald were(author of the book coevolution..an excerpt of the book is at http://www.nexusmagazine.com/coevolution.html)

And on the sceptism front, i was wondering if bill is actually still around (i.e living, no disrespect intended) and if he is hows his mission going? Also Does he have much involvment in this website?

The last question regards the frequency in which schizophrenia and the figure 99.979%(hoax ratio)
occur in the 1988 interview, havent read much more of the site, but if those two phrases a repeated through out i dont think i could....

Proving a point is one thing but it really does detract from what you are saying.....anyway Alec Newald was the main reason i posted so ill try and keep the message related to that.


From A Sceptic of the Sceptics
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Dan Frederiksen
Posted on Tuesday, January 21, 2003 - 10:07 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Michael

you leave me with a lot of things to correct : )
even an error of my own although not one that you pointed out. lets start with mine:

I stated about the wedding cake that it could only be real if some ship function created an optical distortion but I forgot the possibility that it is one of the images that was tampered with, which is something that I would actually consider a reasonable possibility.

On to your comments:
You kling to the notion that these images could not possibly be faked despite my explanation of how it could be done. If you were a man of intelligence you would at least try to argue why my technique could not work or indeed recognize the technique as valid.
The fact that I do not accept the "challenge" to do it is hardly evidence of anything.

You have also called me a proffesional sceptic suggesting that I would ignore evidence at any cost. This is certainly not true. I don't make money of my belief either way and I am actually comfortable in saying that I _know_ that the ET/UFO phenomenon is real. I have heard highly credible testimony to that effect. What I do not know is whether or not "Billy" is on the level and to determine that I use the only thing that I have available, namely the few pictures on the web site and to some extend the claims of Billy.
In some of these pictures I see things that one would not expect to see if they were not fakes and it is my duty to question their validity. Anything less and I would be a lesser man.

The way I see the billy situation:
1) The amount of data available to the public compared to what is claimed to be in existence is pathetic. That is however consistent with a philosophy of minimal interference with our culture and again consistent with the fact that no huge ufo has been parked over all major cities of the world to get our attention. Another aspect is likely to be lack of resources and to some extent perhaps incompetence in figu.

2) Discrepancies in the image evidence as mentioned is working against the case but which could be explained by techological unknowns and tampering efforts to discredit the case.

3) The amount of evidence and the persistance over time speaks in favor of the case since it would take a truly deranged individual to maintain such an elaborate lie for so long. However in my experience really f***ed up individuals do exist such as perhaps heavens gate. Therefore I cannot draw any final conclusion based on size either.

Overall I lean towards believing the Meier case but said concerns keep me from "knowing" the truth in this matter.

The audio recordings suffer from the same as the images: it does not have any qualities that conclusively rule out faking. I know you like to believe that it does but I would cinsider it logical that if you can scientifically recognize a feature in a sound (like they likely did in the excerpt you posted) they would be able to reproduce it. Think about it and get back to me if you disagree. EVEN if they could not, I would claim that it could still easily be fake since I would imagine that say the light saber sound from star wars would get a similarly religious analysis by these experts since that is a quite unusual and complex sound as well. The light saber sound is however not extraterrestrial but produced by a metal pipe dragged after a car, then slowed down and distorted a bit. Like the images it is not conclusive nor was it probably ment to be. It merely adds to the body of "testimony".

Regarding the metal: All I heard was that an expert is claimed to have said that it would require some sort of fusion to produce it and that now the metal parts are no longer in existence. No explanation of why fusion was required or how the parts got lost. That alone does not impress me.

About the scientific "prophecies": The only two that I know of is the information that there is a mountain higher than Mount Everest if you use another measuring technique and the statements as to how many people are on the planet. The last is presently impossible to verify and the first is said to be verified recently by national geographic. A nice thing that helps his case but again if I am not mistaking this could be concluded from avaiable mapping data at the time, no? If there are other good prophecies then mention them.

With regard to most credible source, I by far prefer the Disclosure Project under the direction of Dr. Steven Greer which is a large group of american government and military proffesionals that claim to have worked directly or indirectly with extraterestrial beings and technology.

Last few points to the last post:
-It is no great feat of special effects to reproduce the images. many could do this including me.
-one could hope that competent people that could fake such images would refrain from doing so and have indeed done so.
-Your conclusion as to why ET don't just land here is oversimplified at best

-Dan
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Dan Blatecky
Posted on Saturday, January 18, 2003 - 09:55 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

To James Truthseeker;

I know about the Pleidean delema, a little more closeup, than most people.

I have two registered bids, for a represenative's position, passed across the desk of a major political figure, in at least two past administrations.

This publically placed bid, was for the position of offworld ambassador.

I have even made a job application, to act as social laision for certain sects of the Grays, due to how peculiar they can be.

I know my UFOlogy, very, very well.I live it Jim.

No' the protocols of fileing papers, removes us as the human race, from breeding stock, to a by rights published Earthbased species with at least some sort of representation.

When thinking of the past relatives of the Pleiadeans, one only has to recite some aspect of the India Holy book, in order to observe their past relatives very well known Faux pas.

With respects to the Pleiadeans, I do get in arguments about them, however to me, they are certainly realized as family and "very close family at that".

It's best within this situation Jim, to always say and mean, your sorry.

I'm sorry, is one of the main cements that hold this fragile Earth togeahter within all of its sortcomeings.

Dan
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Michael
Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 09:08 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Dan F.,

You misunderstand a few things:

So far nobody has duplicated the images (and other evidence) including the professional skeptics group I challenged two years ago. You're wasting your time and credibility with this argument. We have a saying, "Put up or shut up" which means (in case it isn't clear) either do it or stop claiming you can.

The "professional skeptics" comment was referring to them not you.

As far as "things you don't "expect to see" in Billy's photos special effects people as well as scientists examining the evidence didn't find them to be hoaxes. Maybe they were less qualified than you.

As far as the "pathetic" amount of data available is concerned again you haven't done your homework. I've found pages and pages of it. So have other people. And what's contained in even a few of the smaller publication is quite specific, comprehensive and covers a very wide range of information. Go get it.

As far as "discrepancies" in the images working against the case, you're still not paying attention. First of all, analysis has been very favorable, secondly, we've moved past relying on the images, thirdly, go find Freddy's photos from May 2000 and check them out. Find him and the 17 people who witnessed the UFOs and ask them if they were hallucinating.

Heaven's Gate people never presented even one piece of evidence of UFOs, neither did the Raelians if you want to start comparing.

You're incorrect about the audio recordings. Especially since there were 15 witnesses outside and it was all recorded on cassette machines in 1980. You have a very active imagination. In your mind many things "could" be done but, funny thing, neither you nor the other critics seem to have the time, interest or ability to show us how it's done. Typical, but that's why you're writing in the skeptics section. They NEVER can duplicate the evidence.

Regarding all you "heard" about the metal analysis, I suggest you learn a bit more. Like who analysed it, his credentials and what the whole analysis revealed.

Regarding the scientific prophecies, I suggest, for the zillionth time, that you do some homework. I found lots of them. I can prove the case by them. Your ignorance of the material does not invalidate the case or obligate me or anyone else to do the work for you.

Your impressed with Greer's work because there are many people who "claim" to have been involved with ETs. I see. Lots of evidence there. Wow.

For the last time, it IS a great feat until someone else, like humble little ol' you, does it...even with today's technology, even with two hands.
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Dan Frederiksen
Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 06:03 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for your time Michael
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Dan Frederiksen
Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 06:13 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Dan B

Something about your story doesn't make sense to me, perhaps you could clarify it.

How can you be surprised that pleiadians would work in secret when you should know for a fact that the greys do so as well? That is if you were indeed offered an ET ambassadorial position

-Dan F
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JAY
Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 07:41 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Dan F.

From my experiences of the Billy Meier case I find that a man of no financial backup can create all this by himself or at least with 17 others at the Center, given the facts of his financial status and trying to build and old farm into what it is now for the past 30 yrs or more.

I come from a very similar poor background financially and I also lived in a very similar environment growing up as a child and if my parents or my grandfather as an example would actually come over to me and showed me pictures he has taken of UFOs, I would not feel inclined to falsify or think they have been hoaxed since I know he never had the financial means in the 70's and 80's to create the Greatest Hoax like that all you skeptics claim of Billy.

Homework and time is needed on your part in all angles for some of this to really take in.

Billy would have needed all The Help from the Spielbergs in a strong hollywood setting to create the reality of the pictures not including the "Financial means" and crew to make it all happen. I do not know anywhere in Hinwil Switzerland where they may have a possible Studio to create ALL this evidence. Wendelle Stevens is a prime example back then who investigated this case and he will definitely conclude that Billy is no joker on the seriousness of this mission and the physical environment which he lives.

If you really feel very skeptic about it you need to study this very closely for another 15 yrs, pay a visit to the FIGU center in Switzerland. Also see some of the video documentation Wendelle Stevens created in the 70s to see the type of environment and history Billy has lived.

The Asket video in DELHI, India filmed in 1960's is a very close example of NON-special Effects. IT is definitely not trickery, the distances and the object have been studied with qualified experts and the witnesses from the Mosque gave their credible story of who Asket was and what their experiences were with the female PLEJARAN.

The videos, pictures and most importantly the accurate specific scientifical information given to Billy have come to life now in these past fews years by Scientist who do not have an Idea who Billy is. We need to get on with the Scientifical evidence which is precisely what will make Billy's experiences much more FACTUAL and NOT Truthfull because anything can be the truth. I believe once we can have people see these facts, then the UFO Photos and videos will definitely take a stronger appeal and validity to the masses all over the world.

JAY
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JPLagasse
Posted on Thursday, January 23, 2003 - 04:24 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi all,

Actually, I think I could duplicate the sound recordings... mind you I have a background in microprocessor design & data acquisition.

First, the sounds in the recording are NOT "simple" sounds. By the technical description, many different sine wave frequencies are merged together in various non-repeating patterns.
Not just a "copy, alter & paste" job !!

A decent D/A converter being fed data from a massive lookup table (in ram) could do the job. A couple of custom software programs would fill the lookup table. Filtering would be used to reduce D/A stepping harmonics.
It's possible that using today's fast PC's, software could feed a sound board directly? But then again, any such software would have to be written or "modified". I'm not sure a sound board would have the D/A resolution required though?? (the difference between the softest to loudest sounds)

The results would be dubbed over with background sounds...

The only problem is, that this would take several weeks to months at least, if a guy really knew exactly what he was doing. Keep in mind that none of this technology was available when the original recordings were done.

Mind you, back then a supercomputer (for them) could have been used but I'm not sure whether they had good enough D/A converter chips??

Perhaps custom discrete electronics could have done the job? About the size of a small refrigerator, not including the computer part... that is.
(In 1976, a 2K (2716) eprom chip, the largest available, sold for about $50 !!)

Perhaps there are better ways than what I suggest??? I'm not familiar with all the audio software available these days, especially at the "professional" level.

Any way you look at it, the time alone required was way beyond what Billy had to "work with". It is far more plausible that these recordings did come from a space ship !!

Another thought: Perhaps these sound recordings should be examined again, looking for other features which might have been overlooked in the original analysis !!

Regards,
JPierre Lagasse
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iamready
Posted on Thursday, January 23, 2003 - 09:52 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

greetings to all...this is my first post...i was wondering why all of the PROOF...thats what seems wrong with our society today. for real skeptics and a real ride check out david ickes literature.if you cant understand or feel in your spirit and soul, then i am sorry for rhose who need all of the facts..you will miss, if you want conspiracy, look at our society. there are good and bad ets all around..the pleiadians are at least not giving up for what they feel is their destiny..they are the peace warriors.so why would they show themselves to tons of ppl right now, and also attempts have been made and hidden by you know who...thank you ...i hope to not offend anyone...
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Dan Frederiksen
Posted on Friday, January 24, 2003 - 12:53 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Jay

As I said I would also tend to believe the Meier case, but I merely argued that what I have available could all be constructed.
The asket video you refer to sounds very interesting but where to get it?
It is certainly not on any website and I tried to order som videos from figu but apparently it is too hard to translate order instructions into english!! From what little I understood of the german "pricelist" it seems to be no simple matter to order something even if it was in english. The only option left is to take a trip to switzerland but quite frankly (believe it or not) I have more important things to do at the moment.

-Dan
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Dan Frederiksen
Posted on Friday, January 24, 2003 - 01:02 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi JPLagasse

You realised that the sound is not "magical" as it of course not, and you proposed a way to replicate it.
However that is not necessary to demonstrate that the sound is not proof in itself.
You are trying to duplicate the sound exactly which is overkill. An analogy could be a roll of a dice and I would claim that it was a magical roll because you could not possibly do the same.
You see?
Similarly "look" at the light saber sound from star wars. No doubt that is also a very complicated sound and I am sure a synthesizer could be built to replicate it but the sound effect crew that made the sound did it with a metal pipe dragged after a car and later run through a couple of filters..

You see what I mean?

-Dan
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JPLagasse
Posted on Saturday, January 25, 2003 - 08:56 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Dan,

I'm not sure I understand your point, that the sound would not have to be replicated exactly ???
Would it not be important to duplicate the exact original sound itself (as much as possible), rather than simply producing a "cheap sound-alike" version???

In this, Here are yet a few more considerations:

The original audio sound produced by the ET craft would have been "modified" somewhat by the recording instruments themselves. For example, some of the "phasing" between different frequency sine waves would most likely have been altered. Also, depending on the type of tape used, frequency response would have produced further alterations, to whatever the tape(s) were "sensitive to".

Additionally, any recordings of this we have listened to off the websites, would most likely have been altered even further from their original form... due to wave distortions produced in the interpretive electronics, compression method & playback circuits in your own PC.

Perhaps the original tape recordings would be the most useful in any real analysis??? The analysis done by the Stevens' investigative team would have been done on a relatively "close" version of this... which brings up even more questions, eh?
Still, enough info was gleaned from this recording to provide some very interesting observations !!

As for whether a "sound" needs to be accurate or simply "audibly similar": In the seventies, there was a controversy between Harman Kardon & other stereo amplifier manufacturers. Harman Kardon showed that if you fed a square wave into their amplifiers, you got a square wave out. Other manufacturer's "square waves" looked like anything but !!! Output was NOT representative of what was "fed in"... and yet these sounded similar, or even better !!

This "alteration" is fine if we are trying to produce a good sounding audio system, but in this particular case, we are trying to reproduce (or analyze) Plejaren space craft sounds !!!

Big difference??? At least, I think so.
Sort of like the difference between an actual ET produced crop circle, & a "forged" look-alike copy??
Etc.

Also, please note that we are talking about attempting to duplicate the Plejaren craft sound only, and have not addressed duplicating (or the "value" of) the rest of the recording content, such as background sounds, their identification etc.

Regards,
JPierre Lagasse
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Michael
Posted on Saturday, January 25, 2003 - 07:47 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A couple of other points regarding the sounds. The actual recording was about 40 mins. long if I remember correctly. It was made outdoors in the presence of 15 other witnesses. There were 24 audible and 8 INAUDIBLE sounds which created the unique patterns. There was no equipment available to Meier to hoax the sounds.

If one actually things about this and all the other circumstances, such as this is a man raising a family, renovating a house, trying to earn a living, survivng assassination attempts, taking photos, films and having contacts and transcribing his contact conversations, etc. then a reasoning person would have to be in awe of the facts of the matter.

Simply asserting that one could duplicate this or explain that is not only inaccurate but misses the point of the totality of the case.

It seems that some people prefer to attribute to Meier above-genius level abilities in photography, fim making, sound engineering, special effects, metallurgy, mass hypnosis, etc. rather than grasp and absorb the "simple" truth of Meier's contacts.
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Dan Frederiksen
Posted on Saturday, January 25, 2003 - 10:58 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

JPLagasse

The reason for the analysis of the sound is not to worship it but to determine if it was fake or not (quite foolish endeavor really)

you assume that the recording is authentic which makes any attempt to replicate it even more foolish.

I argued that the sound contains nothing that points to extraterrestrial technology.
The fact that it is dificult to replicate is hardly conclusive of anything and I exemplified by the star wars light saber sound which is most likely equally dificult to duplicate and as far as we know it is very terrestrial.
Even a recording of my voice would be nearly impossible to do again without my help.
From this it should be quite obvious that the sound itself proves nothing.
What makes it interesting is that Meier/figu says that it is extraterrestrial. That alone.

-Dan
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JAY
Posted on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 09:40 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Dan F,

Dan..."tend to believe"??, this is a good sign that maybe if I undersand you correctly the skepticism you believe of the case may wear you down and really open your mind to the lifestyle of Billy's experiences in order to see the facts open to you.

I do think the SIMPLE facts laid out and the earthly scientifical evidence needs to be looked at by the scientific community, a reading of the information (CONTACT NOTES) by our JSHWJSH PTAAH mentions all or just some of observations of our dying planet.

What will be needed in one sense is for these Scientist out there whether they are from any part of the world, to have an open mind and let them see read and understand what PTAAH and our other Benelovent Space traveling humans have to say. Let them investigate the Scientifical homework on earth so we will then know that our PLEJARAN friends and helpers have a mission to inform us before is too late.

This can only be possible if our scientist take into consideration small portions of the written CONTACTS information and doing a thourough study world wide so they for themselves can see our Elder brothers ARE REAL and not some farmers story (With all due respects to Billy Meier whom we do admire for his strenght).
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Dan Blatecky
Posted on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 01:21 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

To Dan Fredrickson:

I do everything by the numbers, as much as I can. I know certain things, about the Pleiadeans that nobody else does.

However they should come in the door and file that they are here for a pourpose like everyone else?

When you say the term Grays, this is a very broad statement, as there are many, many, types. There are some that are off-sected and do not associate with certain other sorts of Grays. Actually the term Grays means a very broad genotype, so one must discern what type of sect of Grays where?

My bid was at a facility that had certain trouble with the Grays as the guards at this facility did not socially understand them. This was a past bid only. On the Pleideans there is the problem of what was sighted within Stevens book, UFO Contact From The Pledies, book two.This concerns a fellow name Lyle who was caputured by a reingade sect of supposed Pleiadeans for reproductive milkings. The problems exist that no name of this sect of the Pleiadeans was ever given.(We would all like to know this information)?

Moderator: Dan, I strongly doubt any of this information you are talking about was originally from official FIGU material.

Two durring ther ambassadorial landings as posted as said by Kinder via book Light Years, and I quote, "On this landing near Heinwel, there were also a group of Gray aliens, that had travled with the Pleiadeans within an ambassadorial sence" Not verbatim however very close.

Moderator: Again, this information--if it was indeed written by Kinder--has nothing in common with FIGU. This is nonsense and does not stem from FIGU material. Therefore, you cannot say there are contradictions as you allude to below.

Now anyone can go into other sectors of FIGU and what they come up with as statements by Ptaah, is that there are no such thing as Grays. By Ptaah's sayings, all these supposed Grays creatures are all figments of peoples imaginations? There are certain problems with some issues being said I have noticed and then somehow, something has changed and this once offered factual data, is now said to have never been true. Yes I still want the position as ambassador, however by certain items printed and then retracted. This does seem that any published data, is its own worse enemy?

2.Sem-ya-zee being near Jacobus as Jacobus had peered through the library doors, is not why she raised, then slipped and fell. There is something else there which I can not by promice reveal. In the 1991 edition of UFO Library Magazine, there was a said that Semjase had slipped, and fell against a saucer down ramp and only bumped her head.

Now the truth comes out and circumstances seem much more dire. The forthwith of law, regardless of who is in power, is that all consigned ships must appear at ports of call with papers presented of their manifest.These arte then to be shown, destinations, intentions, and how long they are going to stay. This goes for everybody, regardless of how mighty or powerfull that they think they are.

If this information has not been submitted, then this offworld craft, is in contempt of the port of call rules of reprresentation and is a derlict by international law. Then Earth is a place for offworld lawlesness?

I am going by law here Dan, please you tell me.
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JPLagasse
Posted on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 06:24 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Michael, all...

(Well stated, Michael !! Interesting observations/thoughts :) )

I think a lot of "disinformation" was originally distributed publicly by several "individuals", on the Meier case.
Facts were severely distorted or fabricated outright!!

I find it interesting, that the most vocal of these "original people", have since lost public credibility (really big time) through other unrelated events of their own making... whereas the Meier info has not only "stood it's ground", but has been proven even more plausible through our increased knowledge of science, events etc.
Not only that, but more information is being constantly added, even as we "speak".

Of course, the original "distortions & fabrications" are still floating around out there.
Therefor, I think it's to be expected that many "new people" will tend to be highly critical of the Meier case because their "first contact" will be through these old "distortions" !!

Personally, I would like to welcome anybody who has enough interest to ask questions, even if these seem to be cloaked in a "critical" tone !! :)

Oh also, just as a single example, only a very small amount of "internal thought" dealing with the sound recordings has been mentioned above. There is much more on this, if anybody is interested.

Truth is stranger than fiction.
Fiction needs to seem plausible to us, but Real Truth does not !!

Just my own thoughts...
Kind regards,
JP
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JPLagasse
Posted on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 07:46 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Dan Frederiksen,

If someone were to take a tape recording of your voice into a sound lab, it would be rather quickly determined that the recording would be that of a human voice !!!
With such a determination, there would be nothing special about this, I do agree.

However, in the case of the Plejaren space craft sounds, these have never been "recognized" during any of the lab examinations as anything identifiable in any sense. If these would have been generated by "special effects", this would have been discovered rather quickly.

The results of several examinations by different labs have been documented. In the book "And Yet they Fly", there is a very quick summarization of some of these. Stevens' 6 books on the Meier contact go into a lot more technical detail on this.

Also, including the witnesses Michael mentions, there are other details which some of us have had a chance to verify on a personal level. It turns out that the sound recordings and the photographs are the tip of a very large iceberg, so to speak.

It is neither through "Faith" nor the belief in "magic", that many of us here have an active interest in the "Meier information".

Simply stated, it is very intriguing stuff !!

Regards,
JP
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Dan Frederiksen
Posted on Wednesday, January 29, 2003 - 08:01 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

JPLagasse

yes of course my voice would be recognized as a human voice!! I was exemplifying the disparity between the difficulty of creating a sound and replicating it. This disparity has incorrectly been used as an argument for the sound's validity inhere. Basically any sound is difficult to replicate. Something you should know...

I agree that the Meier information is very intriguing but ONLY if it is true. If it isn't then it is truly disgusting. Determining truth comes before dwelling on the info. If you forego such determination you are indeed exercising faith.

-Dan
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Dan Frederiksen
Posted on Wednesday, January 29, 2003 - 07:38 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Dan Blatecky

The sort of grey is irrelevant to my point.
I find it ironic that you are dismayed that the pleiadeans do not keep you in the loop when you yourself has been a part of keeping the entire world out of the loop about ET topics.
(that is if what you say is no lie)
One could even say that it is poetic justice although it seems to be wasted on you when you don't even see the irony.

It might very well be your particular type of mentality that has been (and is) this planets problem.

Do you see my point?
If you don't, then tell us the name of the facility you spoke of and what they do there.
Now do you see my point? : )

-Dan
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Dan Frederiksen
Posted on Thursday, January 30, 2003 - 07:42 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A thing that I wondered abit about:

Why does he call the ships beamships?
I know beam is a silly acronym for his name but that is no reason to call them beamships.

Moderator: In German, beamships are called "Strahlshiffe" where "Strahl" means 'beam' or 'ray', as in a concentrated form of emitted light/radiation. The primary propulsion of the beamship is a light-emitting propulsion system. The fact that the English word "BEAM" passes as an acronym for Billy Eduard Albert Meier is, in my opinion, just an interesting coincidence and nothing more (unless somebody knows something I don't here!)

If I saw som extraterrestrial vehicles I certainly wouldn't call them Dandyflyers..

Any one?

-Dan
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Dan Blatecky
Posted on Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 09:57 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

To Dan Fredrickson'

I've done a full disclosure, as much as possable via public souces as I could.

I have kept nobody out of any kind of loup.

That type of mentality as you say, represents the people who want to know the truth.

There is nothing for me to tell.

Who has to tell are most of the off-world races visiting here on Earth, along with the government supposting them, if this is applicable?

For your second question Dan.

Why these ships are known as beam-ships, is that through certain processes, these ships posess the ability to beam themselves from point to point.

Moderator: If we are talking about Pleiadian/Plejaran beamships, the reason for their being named so is as I explained in Dan F.'s recent posting, which is derived from the Semjase Contact Reports.

There are photos published, of a beamship seeming to be in two places at the same time, useing what scientist refer to as a Einstin-Rosenbrige worm-hole apparatus.

Note that there is the Steven L, Greer disclosure project, which I do approve of.

The question lies, is there some process hidden here, that either some sects of aliens or government does not want the average citizen to know and understand?

Anytime anyone tries to establish a foundation for a nonhidden discussion forum, where all can join in if they wish, then I would say this is not an attempted establishment of a series of hidden comminications, or a loup if you will?
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Dan Frederiksen
Posted on Sunday, February 02, 2003 - 02:44 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Dan Blatecky

hehe where do you get the spelling of my name from?
I agree that the pleiadeans are info hogging bastards : ) but there is still a possibility that their cause is just and not dark and sinister. Possibly just misguided. we could be dealing with the religious fanatics of their world while the competent people in their society wouldn't give us the time of day. All this is again provided that Billy is for real.
Many unknowns are up in the air as perhaps is the intention.

Where did you disclose your knowledge?
And the photos you speak of, where are they published?

-Dan F
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Adrian K.
Posted on Monday, February 03, 2003 - 06:43 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Quoting Dan: (((Similarly "look" at the light saber sound from star wars. No doubt that is also a very complicated sound and I am sure a synthesizer could be built to replicate it but the sound effect crew that made the sound did it with a metal pipe dragged after a car and later run through a couple of filters.. )))
-------------------------------------------------
The StarWars lightsaber sound was made using a Microphone swinging back and forth behind an old TV. I wouldn't say that it was very "complicated" as you describe it.

It's quite amusing to see how different people define "real" and "unreal". When I first came in contact with the Meier case it was rather obvious to me that it's all pure facts and as real as something can get. If you see a photo with a car on it, then it's not a big deal, the car is there why would you even consider the photo to be a hoax? Everyone knows that cars exist. When you see a photo of a UFO, why do you consider it to be a hoax? Or possible hoax? I guess because you have never seen a UFO with your own eyes, but for me it's enough to see the UFO on a photo, then I can agree with myself that it's real because I have the photo as proof.

Accept the fact and move on. And if you don't believe it, why bother to argue with the ones who knows the truth? That would just be a waste of your own time, in my opinion.
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Dan Frederiksen
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Post Number: 1
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 01:12 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Adrian

You might very well be right that the light saber was done as you say. Come to think of it I might have described how they did the tie fighter sound. But that doesn't undermine my point. You fail to separate complexity of the sound and the complexity of making the sound. My point exactly was that the sound was very easy to make despite the sound's complexity and that the alleged beamship sound's complexity therefore is no argument of reality.

I can relate to your car picture analogy but of course the argument doesn't hold (otherwise I would have made it already : )
Consequences of your logic:
all scifi would be scifact since you wouldn't doubt a picture of anything.
a pictorial hoax is impossible (any photograph produced of anything could be interpreted to be anything) a silver frisbee as an ETV for example

I hope you would agree that my counter examples demonstrates the over simplification of your argument.

And please don't use statements like : "Accept the fact and move on"

As for waste of my time you might be right : )

-Dan
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Dan Frederiksen
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Post Number: 2
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Friday, February 07, 2003 - 07:41 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

btw Marc (Juliano)

You never answered me if it is intentional on the part of Figu/Billy that so little of the evidence is available publically/on internet.

Is it a lack of resources or is it intent?


Another thing; are none of the people in the figu camp(SSSC) able to speak english? do Billy speak english?

-Dan
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Dan Blatecky
Unregistered guest
Posted on Tuesday, February 04, 2003 - 09:52 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Dan'
I must confess that I was somewhat concerned, when I had clicked on your name and an e-mail of lithium came up as part of the e-mail address.

Here is what you want and the web site is,..http://www.cosmic-people.com/default_e.htm

This should get you there.

Dan I must remind you that the content of this page, might be a religious socialist view?

I'm not sure on either the content or nature of this offered web site, however there are factual photos of some of the Meiers as well as the Pleiadean's doings within this web site.

The photo series that I was privy to, has showed a sonic later model Pleiadean saucer, apparently being within two places, at the same time. Within this photo sequence, apparently useing what is known as an Einstin Rosenbridge wormhole self made contrivance.

I am sorry on your name mispelling, however this is the web and you will find many misspelled words, that happen every now and then, within printed web conversations.

The best, you're welcome Dan F.

DJB
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freno
Unregistered guest
Posted on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 03:19 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Re Dan F.

Try universe people.com.
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Dan Frederiksen
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Post Number: 3
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Tuesday, February 11, 2003 - 09:31 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi guys

Don't worry about my handle lithium. It is not a psycho pharmaceutical agent for me : )

I looked at the images at universe-people and there were some more of the wedding cake ship. (picture 26-31 at the site)
These pictures don't exactly strengthen my faith in this case and I hope that these are more examples of falsifications because they don't exactly look like images of a 7 meter object.
I would like to hear defense of them from people in figu that actually know about it but I suppose that is not a concern to figu.

btw. how old is the figu website?

-Dan
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Dan Blatecky
Unregistered guest
Posted on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 10:57 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dan' One of the things, items Billy did not understand, was the magnetic field placed beneath these craft.

This is probably an electromagntic field, with some sonic signatures to it?

So what happens since a strong e.m. signature is going to effect what is known as light-mass, you going to get a goofy looking, almost faiked quality to the films.

I feel that the Meier pics are genunine and that these are not faiked films.

The formula is G over distance, obstucted by G> as gravity, to C, which is light, presents a pull, or distortion as M+ or modified spaces length, at any n, or unknown value.

So you will get this gaudy film quality, due to the e.m. pulsed sinature, from these craft close up.

In other words, they don't look as if they are realm in some photos?

With the time ship parked in stasus hover, over the V.W. bus, you get definate gradations of light, due to this being a darker film.

There is a reactance of C, at n length, under certain light, with some views of the time ships.

Hope this helps Dan?' you're welcome.
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Dan Frederiksen
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Post Number: 4
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Sunday, February 23, 2003 - 07:46 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Dan B and guys

Your explaination is a little less than scientific but ok : )
For now we'll chalk it up to optical disturbances although it does seem slightly too convenient.

I asked you earlier where you posted your story of disclosure but I don't think you told me. Could you point to where it is or perhaps tell it here?

thanks

nobody knows how old this site is?

-Dan
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TerraX
Unregistered guest
Posted on Sunday, February 23, 2003 - 05:19 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Greetings.

Something came to my attention last week concerning the Adamski case and I feel obliged to make a post.One of Adamski's pictures, namely the one taken from one ship to another showing 2 faces through portholes, suffered much critisizement.Some labeled it as a picture from a galaxy with holes punched in it and faces added.In the 29th contact note this picture is discussed by Billy and Semjase and is labeled as fraudelous.Semjase calculated that the ship is 171cm in height and 897cm in lenght.The faces are disproportionately large in relation to the height off the ship and therefore the picture is labeled a hoax.Mr Adamski's explanation was that the flashlight from the camera only reflected a portion of the ship.The picture in question whom Semjase and Billy were discussing can be found in Adamski's book "Inside The Spaceships".There is however, in my opinion, a problem.The picture discussed is one of a serie off four.That serie of pictures can be found in the images section off the following site.
http://www. universe-people.com/ default_e.htm
Under 5.almost 1000 images, black and white pictures 101a-119a.The serie in question is 115a to 118a.As you can see the four pictures show different light distributions.On picture 115a a porthole is visible in the upper left corner.Perhaps Adamski went through the trouble of making forgeries using four different galaxies or perhaps his explanation off light reflection combined with variable distance is correct.At the very least it shows that Semjase's analysis is incomplete.

Regards,
TerraX
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Jay
Member

Post Number: 184
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Friday, February 28, 2003 - 11:01 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Dan,

I definitely not sure how old this site is but it would be a good Idea to email our moderator for accurate information pertaining to the FIGU sites age and when its birthday will be coming, LOL

Jay
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Dan
Member

Post Number: 5
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Monday, March 03, 2003 - 10:39 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Terra and guys

Interesting point but it could be as simple as she didn't care too much about it. We would need something stronger to make any conclusion but conveniently nothing really solid is ever discussed in the contacts (at least not in the few contact notes available on the internet). It's always chit chat about foreign policy, environmental issues or unverifiable "facts".

Browsing through the contact notes I noticed an odd explanation of the reason for the asteroid belt. Supposedly seawater was led into magma chambers of a large volcano as an attack on the planet which resulted in its current state as an asteroid belt (note 251). As I understand it no amount of pressure build-up could cause the pulverization of a planet. The energy required to do this is much much greater. I see no way this could be true.
The same contact note speaks of war through out the galaxy's history and that we as earth humans drove off a race that called themselves gods which left in anger promising revenge on us in the future. We would be in no position to drive off any space faring people and I would think that any people able to leave a planet would at least have the ability to build nuclear weapons an could therefore easily destroy everyone on earth. Again I see no way this could be true.

Could someone perhaps clarify how this could be true?

-Dan
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Tim_davis
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Post Number: 1
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Friday, March 07, 2003 - 02:03 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Dan F,

A detail about the term 'beamship' I remember reading (in either the report or the contact notes, I'm not sure) is that the ship is propelled by a beam of energy emitted from a land-based or similar external apparatus. That form of propulsion system is now obsolete but the term has been carried over to their present day craft.

Tim

p.s., Thanks, Christian, for officially welcoming me into the forum!
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Large_ship
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Post Number: 2
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2003 - 07:55 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a minor complaint and would only care to aire this complaint here at FIGU.

The title of my complaint has to do with a few offworld races apparently utilizing us humans, even considering us humans as property?

This complaint goes with the say by Charles Fort, saying, >I think that we're someone's property"?This was said with reference to the UFO information that Mr. Fort had finally figured out.

There are two other web-sites that tell of an end time gathering of saucercrafts, to take people from Earth in times ahead.

One was disclosed at web site, http://ww . 8march2003.com/ which tell of a huge ark being constructed at a approximated location.

The second web site, is given as, http://ww . cosmic-people.com/default_e.htm , which tells of a gathering of saucers to come, which will take people from Earth.

Note when you go archival on the second web-site offered, there is a lot of good information about the Pleiadean not told at FIGU?

These two web site do show plans to extricate people from Earth, however there does not seem to be a pre-contact phase.

These aliens and Earth agents only come and take people, when the time is near and there is little or no democracy to this process at all?

I have applied to the office of the chief administrator of this land I live in, for the position of an offworld ambassador, if this position should open-up?

I have done so, by over four formal written letters, to the chief executive branch of this land, with the addition of the congress and senate.

This might not be the case, however protocols and doing things by the numbers, is what I had wanted to do and I did this for spites sake, as everything seems to be rigged within formalized government anymore?

I have one other view and this is on Barbara Marciniack's writings within her book, Earth The Pleiadean Keys To The Living Library, which I felt was a terrific book, coupled with Winters The Pleiadean Mission.

This is, that the functionaries of Earth the Pleiadean Keys, was exacting and in some ways, is how events work within the universe, for many beings such as Earth humanoids.

I don't feel that supposed saying by Ptaah, should have ever dared refute the contents of Marciniack's well written book.

This is so, as I feel that the contents of her book, were and indeed are quite true.
This is the way the daily chore of events on some planets, does work, with reference to other extraterrestrials, as within a technical phase, Earthpeople are extraterrestrials, in relationship to other beings within the universe.

This is a relatavistic stance.

Some of us, such as the many UFO, E.T. contacts too numerous to mention here, want to make contact early.

This is because they had before agendas, with forthought and consideration and did not want to wait and be herded like cattle, to either submarine shaped rocket arks, or to be teleported to the bottom of sauce ships, regardless of who these E.T.s might be.

The psychokovatic threat, or a reptoid footprint based on the cement workpeice, at the Meier home, may have been a checkpoint, to keep all FIGU follows incheck?

For those who would look past threats, then I guess that the footprint did not exist?

The key point I'm trying to really here, is that by Jacques Valies telling in his book, Journey To Matagoina, a book dealing with all of the variables or offworld contact through the ages till the relative now times; is that in some instances people did have a choice concerning the content of their E.T. UFO contacts.

To all offworld beings who would conscript Earth based humans, as chosen by them within the future tense, be forewarned of this advice.

>For in those who are conscripted and taken against their will, when not other choice exist for them, as they have all the time been played in the state of affairs as pawns, within their being, once the truth is found out, will always be harbouired a certain resentment.

The truth in association of friendship, is never a friendship, is the means to this friendship has been tainted to someone's certain advantage, all along?

Comment by the Moderator: The content behind the two links above and also Barbara Marciniak's book(s) are far from the truth, in other words a hoax. And Randy Winters' book may not be taken as real truth, too.

Christian Frehner
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Large_ship
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Post Number: 3
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Posted on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 02:29 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Return comment to C. Fehner:

The return comment as to the state of the modern day Pleiadeans has to start somewhere, wouldn't you say Christian?

What is it' that in the year 1975 the Pleiadeans supposedly land in an ambassadorial landing in Switzerland?

However with the passage of time, there are saying that the modern day Pleiadeans have no Earthly contact with Earthlings; however only with the exception of Billy Meier.?
This said, when there is even evidence that the Pleiadeans do have contact elsewhere, as told in the Steven's series of books.

Concerning Marciniack, it seems that at'least Barbara had tried to build bridges to Pleiadean's thoughts and ways, in the development of an Earthbased users manual?
This done and then only to have her well thought out comments thwarted by Ptaah.

This is by conservative estimate all amounting to a ruse!?
First the comes as ambassadors. Then in time, one the the Pleiadeans themselves says that no Earthling is fit to have contact with the Pleiadeans.

And now, there seems a move towards the presence of evacuation arks for the general public instead?

What is the verdict here Christian?.. First we said hello to the Earthlings, then segregated away as we are not fit to have contact with and now the human cattle should get ready for evacuation?

Sounds like lock, stock and barrel sold on the market cattle to me?My view as this equation would be to anyone else.

What about the people who don't make the grade, are they unceremoniously tossed off the saucers, after they are found not fit for selection?

You might want to mention from Steven's work Christian?
>Know that in a way, there would not be a Pleiadean race based within the Pleiades if it were not for the barrowed genetic matter, taken from everyday Earth-based humans in order for them to purify?!

All that comes across is is a total lack of humanity by the Pleiadeans as they are going to get ready to ship their chosen cattle elsewhere?!!

How do you think that this new fact looks in the everyday press Christian?

Sure would like a return comment on that one...?

Hi D.,

There are no plans by anyone (extraterrestrial or earthly origin) to evacuate any person from Earth, neither Billy nor another FIGU member, and of course nobody else. All these claims by certain individuals (channelers and the like) are either wishful thinking, hoax or delusion.
We people on Earth are not yet enough evolved to emigrate to other worlds. First we will have to bring about peace among us, between nations, but also within a country, within families, and within oneself.

Btw: The Plejarans don't have contact with other people except Billy Meier (here on Earth). There had been a few contacts (to be counted on one hand), but those persons have all died in the meantime.

Regards,
Christian
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Truthseeker
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Posted on Friday, March 28, 2003 - 01:56 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Greetings D,

Unfortunately the idea of mass evacuation by ETs is for the most part wishful thinking should humanity destroy itself in a 3rd world war, in 2006. Perhaps the only person who is allowed to leave Earth during such an event is Billy himself.

I think what should be realized, is that the Plejarans are way to far beyond the comprehension of human evolution with the exception of Billy, which means that contact with Plejarans in anyway is an impossibility to consider. In fact the plejarans are far beyond other known ET groups which visit here such as the benefactor ETs who make the crop circles, who may be much closer to our own level of evolution. Humanity could have had an official contact with an ET group around the turn of the new millennium which did not happen because of obvious world events we are now seening. Should world war 3 happen because of all the pro war activist out there, etc, then I'd say our goose is more then just cooked, it's microwaved!!! Now will the good benefactor ETs rescue just a few of us from this holocaust ready to happen? Perhaps on behalf of our own wishful thinking, but not likely.

Peace in knowing,

James the truthseeker
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Large_ship
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Posted on Friday, March 28, 2003 - 03:05 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What the observer should be figuring out now, is that commentator Christian Fehner, can not post on his own, he must always post an attachment to my post in order to make his point felt?

The problem with the commentator here, is that he fails to recognize the historical value of encountering Pleiadeans in the past.

In Fehner's words, (everyone have either died, or the evidence removed)?

So then white washing the evidence, to where the Atlantian sect of the Pleiadeans can come onto the Earth scene and conscript whoever they want while hiding the evidence, is quite allright with the Pleiadeans?

I'm sure that the war-crimes divisions of galactic histories, somewhere, will have adopted a contrary view to yours, Mr. Fehner.

Nowhere and I mean nowhere in all of the Pleiadeans postings, excpecially the Atlantian sected Pleiadeans have I seen an, "I'm sorry, Oh my God, I'm sorry for all of the atrocities that latter Atlantis had committed"?

Now with new Pleiadean technology, the Atlantian sect of the Pleiadeans can come here and say that they are almost gods and near perfect.

This is a shameful ruse on the Pleiadeans part and in God's eyes sir, I would certainly, at'least say that I'm sorry, for the past indiscretions afforded fellow neighbors to the Atlantians?

Not to come here to Earth, with pomp and circumstance and claim that we the Atlantian sect of the Pleiadeans are perfect?

The worst perfection, is to hide a crime when this crime has been part of your doing.

Maybe I'm saying, "Oh my God, I sorry for burning those people alive in that white stuckoed house, with my beam wrist bracelet"!!??

Remember Billy had said that he had the same experiences remembering his use of the same bracelet, that I mention.

All over again lying and the pleiadeans have no shame, with even a simple, "I'm very sorry for the past transgression of the Atlantis, as we were related to them".

Nothing, a shear pompacity that beats all.

Note Mr. Fehner, please post and stand on your own rather attachments to my post?

The Atlantian sect of the Pleiadeans have ridden on my, as well as many coat-tails in order to justify what they are wanting to do, in reference to the times to come.

We Earthlings for the time we stand here, do have a right to our history.

Even is this history is not so illustrious.
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Christian
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Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2003 - 12:32 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi D.,

As a moderator I cannot only post an attachment to a message, I could also insert my comments within a posting. However, I will address the false statements in your post in this separate message.

1) It is not the Plejaran's fault that two of their contact person died in a car crash.
2) Since the Plejarans had no hand in the Atlantean war, why should they apologize for it? Would you say that, as a comparable example, the U.S. Government should apologize for having executed millions of Jewish people in Germany during WW II because the ancestors of many many American families emigrated from Germany during several hundred years?
3) If you would have read and studied the Contact Reports (in German) correctly you would know that the Plejarans volunteered (out of self-imposed obligation) to bring us spiritual knowledge and other help because they feel that their ancestors have become guilty some hundred thousand years ago here on Earth.
4) Of course no "Atlantian sect of Pleiadeans" comes here to Earth. On the one hand all Atlantians have died in the meantime, and on the other hand the Plejarans are no sect because they are non-religious.
5) I cannot understand why you come to the conclusion that the Plejarans do deny the right of "us Earthlings" "to our history". I don't think that there is a "right" here, because history, at least the true verion of history, is a fact and no right. However, it is your right to believe in a god, but if you really want to stick to that belief, you probably may be in the wrong place within this Discussion Board.

Regards,
Christian Frehner

Btw: Why do you not sign your posting with your full name? I know it (of course), but I think that when you publish such attacking messages you could also stand to it with your real name.

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Markc
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Post Number: 12
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Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2003 - 12:29 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Large Ship ;

If you don't mind explaining more about this "beam wrist bracelet" . Where did you read or hear about this , and please be specific to the name of the book and page , please .

Mark
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Large_ship
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Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2003 - 07:43 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

To Christian Fehner' firstly.

The point is Christian., is that the Pleiadeans should not be here on Earth, with expressed reference to the Atlantian sect, till they have been formally recognized by at'least checking into some form of publicly noted ambassadorial setting, to be accounted for by and for the peoples of Earth, (period).

With the Pleiadeans not recognizing any form of Earth government, then as their new name states, they have ((Plegerized the process of themselves being here, end of story?

To Mark, I certainly did read this statement made by Billy Meier himself concerning of remembering wearing the Atlantian wrist beam bracelet weapon.

I myself have have the very same memory, after my change in concerning Cosmonaut Semjase.

I even know how this particular Atlantian wrist worn bracelet works.

This device is set on an energy system of polled photonic electrical power, which rest within a sub-pack worn, that through a feed current transferres down a wire which feeds to the bracelet, activates the bracelet on command.

"Believe me"' I know how this particular weapons works very well and I'm sorry for ever having used this device?!

Can't site chapter and verse, wait as a mater of fact, this source might be here at FIGU, come to think of it?

Any seekers to the past worn Atlantian wrist bracelet?

I know I read this say by Billy and I'm not delusional.

Long and short of it both of you, regardless of what comes within the short future tense.

The Atlantian sect of the Pleiadeans must say they are sorry for the past deeds of the Atlantians, mean it and give a proper, not a staged account for their purpose in being here, end of story!?
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Markc
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Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2003 - 10:35 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Largeship ;

That's right , your'e the 'due process and paperwork' guy . And you are a former Atlantean .
I see. Well , then I can only assume that you have much to tell . Please fascinate us with your knowledge .

Also , the best of luck to you with your need for to-the-letter- legal process .

Please keep in mind that the human brain can only survise for a short time without oxygen , and we want to hear more about the Atlanteans .

agan , Mark

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Large_ship
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Posted on Sunday, March 30, 2003 - 11:16 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

From what I have discovered, is that the Atlantians when they had come here from Lyra, were four dimensional creatures, not three as we are represented as humans you know here now.

There were adjustment problems that the Atlantians had here on Earth at first, due to a starting of a phase-change within their physiologies.

In their four dimensional state of being, they had much more adaptation to transfer their being to other states of dimension if they had wanted to.

In the final analysis, it was the action of the sun, which had caused a change within how they're state of being functioned and slowly they became three dimensional are we reference today.

There were problems with not being able to be four dimension within their character and the use, then overuse of crystals became a factor within how the Atlantians referenced to the everyday world?

There were actual crystal grown forest, that the Atlantians had built, however their phase, of being four dimensional, was never captured again.

This had caused mental problems which had manifested as both anger, a nonmoral treatment of other people and colonies placed here on Earth, near the end of the reign of the Atlantic Empire.

What you find with the sayings of A.Z. Knight and her Ramantha diatribes, as being a moral edifice.

This was said during the middle reign of the Atlantian Empire is true, however towards the very end of this Empire, the falling into disarray, deception and social malady, it seems was the rule?

The continent of Atlantis was based on a series of gas caverns, which as in the same fashion as tires, began to crumble and deflate.

This was one problem geologically speaking with Atlantis towards the end of the realm.

The Atlantis Maldecian war, was the final straw, as a piece of commetary matter, from an unknown source, hit near the west capitol city, so sinking what was left of this once great continent.

For myself, I can meditate either using crystals, or without, as I have adjusted to my past and present combined.

However the latter Atlantians were almost addicted to crystals and nonadjustment to these ends was their natural downfall.

It is said that not all the Atlantians had perished during the sinking of Atlantis and a few in specially built underwater chambers, of the high cult of Atlantis had survived.

As a matter of fact, it was said within Berlitze's books, Mysteries Of The Bermuda Triangle, that they are still there this day. (the pilot from Miami interlude, where his engine was knocked out by an Atlantian beam ray, from unsubmersed buildings, the Bimini area).

What we find today, is little remorse concerning the Atlantian sect of the Pleiadeans, as they still do not socially understand themselves.

I had seen two movies on Atlantsi, had a very bad reaction to one and the other, well' sort of enjoyed.

No culture, no matter how mighty, has the right to enslave, or to barter dishonestly over the fate of another culture.

These events, are well recorded by other cultures off-world and this is why a recompense of action, must and will be performed by the Atlantian sect of the Pleiadeans?

The way this sun performs is not my fault.

Maybe it was forces far more powerful that we as residents here, can recon with, that had caused the migration from Lyra to Earth, for the Lyrians to become Atlantians?

Maybe it was a lesion or a change in stature that was needed to be, for the then Lyrians, as it was said they had experienced civil war before.

The sources were, on Atlantis and Structure, Churchward, on his writings on Atlantis.

On the seeing of one of the Atlain High Priest in modern times, the book by Charles Berlitz, Mysteries Of The Bermuda Triangle.
>This is part in book private pilot plane encounter with water pushed away submerged buildings, to said priest appearance.

The say on the structure of very past Atlantian as opposed to latter Atlantians physiologies, was in yahoo's spiritweb. Know that, this link is now down?

This alternate link, http: //ww . crystalinks.com/atlantis.html , does tell of some of the use and misuse of crystals from the Atlantian era; however in no way now shows, as the spiritweb article, the nature deliniate of the Atlantian's past and present physiologies.

The article from spiritweb, was based to tell via new evidence by a researcher at spiritweb.This was that in-fact the Atlantians were when they came here to Earth, a differing in vibrational phased being as opposed to the latter rule of Atlantis, more similar to everyday humans.

Again this all had to do with the DNA coding imposed by Earths central sun..?

Note also read up on The Federation Of Damanhur at, http: //ww . damanhur.org/.
There are complete pictures of pretymuch what the later Atlantian empire was like; however not ot the depth of personality, that the mentioned spiritweb article, telling of frequency irregularities the real Atlantians had posessed?
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Barreto
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Post Number: 34
Registered: 04-2002
Posted on Monday, March 31, 2003 - 04:41 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One Cannot Have Wisdom Without Living Life”

Dear “Atlantean” Large_Ship et all

I came myself a long way for many years on the so called “path” but a wrong one.
I knocked and knocked and knocked over and over, many times, throughout all my life since around 12 yrs old on wrong and deceitful doors in search of knowledge and answers for questionings that were inside myself. Anything related to esoterics, spiritualism, occult, theosophy, pseudo-ufology you name it, I myself was affiliated/related to: Pseudo secret and “ancient” and “mystical” brotherhoods, freemasonry apprentice, Amorc Rosicrucianism, and other supposedly “guardians and heralds” of an “ancient” “secret” knowledge they do not possess in any form and will never be able to “teach” in any form because they do not posses it at all. This was my wrong past.

I have read and deeply studied from cover to cover for many years all written works of the well known and famous “channelers” and self-deluded precursors/creators of this enormous pseudo new-age confusion and humbug authors/’mediuns” Helena Petrovna Blavatsky and Alice - “Lucifer Trust”- B. Bailey books I’d read all of them in the past and other books from many well known authors and “gurus” and pseudo “prophets”.

I myself met personally many and many sorts of “channelers”, and saw with my own very eyes those deceivers “channelize” fictitious and NON-EXISTENT personages like Lord Buddah, Ashtar “The Evil” Sheran, Saint Germain, Lord Maytreia, Sananda/Christ and a multitude of many other delusional NON-EXISTENT “spirits from beyond” and from “other universes” and I even spoke personally face-to-face to a crazy swindler/hoaxer and liar Brazilian citizen who proudly claims his father is THE DECEASED Ashtar-Sheran in person that – according to this NUTS – will “rapture” humankind at the “end of the world”. I have seen all those liars, deceivers, swindlers, and charlatans by myself they lie to themselves and to others as well and their faces does not turn red when they LIE. And many, many thousands of people believe them piously and strongly all around the world from North to South, from East to West.

But – allow me to say – a good thing certainly I’ve learnt with all those written harangue, humbug, assumptions, and deceitful teachings from the swindlers/hoaxers I mentioned above and this thing is HOW TO RECOGNIZE A LIE AND A HOAX because – without false modesty – I really know on how to RECOGNIZE a liar, a swindler, a charlatan, a self-deluded “channeler” when they try to “teach” their wrongful and deceitful teachings of UNTRUTH and half-truths just like my good friend James TruthSeeker is also able to recognize hoaxers and liars by himself when he goes once in a while for a visit to Mount Shasta just as his own nickname clearly shows to us.
No one, absolutely no one in this world – dead or alive – is able to deceive me anymore because I know the way they talk, the way they act, the way they write, their subtleties and precisely and exactly what they think and all this unfortunately thanks to all the wrong doors I knocked and to all fake teachings from the books I read and learnt from then while on my way on the Narrow Path that is full of bushes with {dangerous and poisonous thorns all over it and also many hungry and bloodthirsty wolves and “vampires” or the “gurus” and Pharisees and know-it-alls lurking on it in the darkness of ignorance as well.
But unfortunately I myself was deluded and had to pass through of all these things because in my pure innocence in search of truth I really thought I was going to find and “understand” what I thought was “God”. Pure and simple illusion of mine!}

But at the same time dear Large_Ship while I was walking on this narrow path in search of knowledge, comprehension and wisdom one day I came upon Mr. Billy Meier’s name in a manner I cannot explain to you and that certainly you would not believe a single word of it if I try to explain it to you. Let me just say it was an INSIGHT and just that is enough.

But now I see I do have the “rare” opportunity to – allow me to say – “speak” to a “real” “Atlantean”}. Why! What a privilege of mine! I will not “loose” this chance to have a word or two with a “real” “Atlantean” with his quite” rare “Death Ray Bracelet” no way!


I can see by your previous postings/questionings to Christian and I am 100% sure that you never ever read the book by the name TALMUD OF JMMANUEL because you never mentioned a single word about it in your postings/questionings.
This book Talmud of Jmmanuel is not simply just a “book” one reads then puts it back on the bookshelf, forgets it and leaves it there to be covered by dust and to be eaten by moths.

For you, dear Large_Ship that I perfectly can see, are KNOCKING on the wrongs doors and taking for granted many deceitful and wrongful teachings 101% of them are certainly (and that can proved) based on Mr. Billy Meier’s real messages, contact reports, and teachings, that are shamefully rewritten with distorted, destroyed, concocted, fully alterated, edited/redacted by delusional “channelers” that add words of their own wrongful misunderstandings and misinterpretations here and there and also add some fancy names of non-existent “spiritual brothers”, “space brothers” as Germaine, Ptah, Quan Yin, Hatton, Sananda, “Pleiadean Talking Dolphins”, Lyran Brotherhood. Atlanteans, Lemurians and astonishingly even “Christened Extraterrestrials” and other crazy names like that then claim that they themselves are “receiving” messages – A SURELY LIE - from fictitious characters such as Jesus Christ “himself” a character I personally state and assure to you does not exist and never existed in any form in any point of planet Earth’s REAL history. Those channelers and self deluded and irrationals, unreasoning persons/authors that I cannot and I am not allowed -for legal reasons- to fully list writing down their REAL and FULL names one by one because I know their names one by one and they are from North and South America (and especially in Brazil), Europe, New Zealand, Australia and many other countries certainly have read many of Billy’s originals books, contacts, messages etc. and in the secret and darkness of their “lion’s den” they copy it then change it as they please with tinted/colorful words and a mask of lies and do not have courage enough) to admit it in plain sight of others because that would denounce them and they would have to admit that they really do study Billy’s writing, yes sir! and would do anything, even walk over dead bodies, in order to turn Billy’s Mission preposterous and many people are very very rich because of their false and highly lucrative teachings and they do not want to loose their highly lucrative mine of gold. by using innocent peoples’ faith with books, Ascensional tapes, fancy trinkets, expensive violet/amethyst stones/crystals, promises of sure “burning of karmas” by attending Ascension Festivals, Ascensional Wesaks and, promises of being “rescued” by large flying saucers squadrons etc. etc. etc. at last a huge, gigantic, immensurable and pathetic multitude of lies that are swallowed by many with hook, bait, line and fishing pole altogether.}

In order to fully understand/comprehend/grasp Billy’s writings, claimings, postulates, truths, and real Mission on planet Earth you dear Large_Ship you must firstly be armed with the followings “tools” or 5 points/words in your mind:

1) HERMENEUTICS: That is a science and methodology of interpretation, specially of scriptural texts and correct meaning of words and its interpretation.
2) LOGIC: The study of the principles of reasoning especially of the structure of propositions as distinguished from their content and of method and validity in deductive reasoning.
3) REASON: The capacity for logical, rational, and analytic thought in other words; intelligence.
4) WISDOM: Understanding of what is true, right, or lasting, INSIGHT: “One cannot have wisdom without living life”
5) And serious and diligent comparison/confrontation research with several different existent scriptures of well known hard-hand dominant religions.

In order to intelligently understand that Billy’s writings and the book Talmud of Jmmanuel contains only The Truth no one is able to deny no matter how scholarly one may seems not even your own assumptions that obviously were learnt by means only of deceitful and wrongful distorted teachings and pseudo-truths and writings that are spread through the authors and “channelers” you certainly know their names very well and certainly use to visit their websites as well.

Please Large_ship try to obtain information on the book Talmud of Jmmanuel, try to read other writings Mr. Billy Meier himself has written then feel free to come back often to argue about it with intelligence and wisdom in knowing BECAUSE the way you are doing your LARGE_SHIP will certainly fall and sink in a multitude of written words every single one of them written by “channelers” and “mediuns”, deceivers and self deceived know-it-alls that in reality do not know 0,0001% of who really is Mr. Billy Meier and his Mission and what he and his Mission does represent to humankind and to this poor and suffered planet we all live that is called Earth.

And forget about huge spaceships rescuing humankind. We will have to firstly correct our own errors and other errors caused by wrong and distorted religious/sectarian fake teachings of others that were implanted in humankind minds. That takes time, wisdom, knowledge, intelligence, harmony, and True Love for humankind.

So I have sincerely spoken and So it is!

In Peace and Knowing and

Saalome Large_Ship

That means PEACE to you! In Plejarans’ NOT “Pleiadeans” Language because “Pleiadeans” does not exist and in Pleiades it is too HOT to support life! Simply science.)





José Barreto Silva
Brazil
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Large_ship
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Post Number: 7
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Monday, March 31, 2003 - 12:37 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Quote from Baretto>And forget about huge spaceships rescuing humankind.
We will have to firstly correct our own errors and other errors caused by wrong and distorted religious/sectarian fake teachings of others that were implanted in humankind minds. That takes time, wisdom, knowledge, intelligence, harmony, and True Love for humankind. ]

Dear Baretto'

I am sorry to say, that what I have printed here, is quite true.

There was an Atlantian Federation and there is a link between even the present day Atlantians, who in a way as well as we, are part of the Pleiadeans.

Religious reciprocity sometimes occludes the value of what is, over what one wants to see.

This is why you have pounded your piano voice of reply, in fortissimo, rather than with gentile skill in retort.

My job as a bid ambassador, was for the people, not for a few, or for obscure ideals, of only a certain class.

This duty, I assure you, is a thankless one; however a necessary duty, which for histories sake, I had to do.

I am very close to the Pleiadeans.

I say Pleiadeans instead of Plejarians, as the word Please, I feel comes from Pleiades?

In this house of discussion, I make my replies so careful, as not to hurt.This is so, I have realized with time, that the insult you throw at others, often come back to you, as you are related to the main issues.

The latter tellings of Atlantis deserve an I'm sorry.

The current telling of the Atlantian sect of the Pleiadeans, not only deserve a note of I'm sorry and we have learned, however an explanation as to the presence of their being here?

And yes, in many, many, facets of published matter, not only the Pleiadean claim at Universe People.com, there are telling of ships and arcs to come, in order to rescue people, who desire to leave Earth.

My application as an ambassador here, is for the protocols of historie's tellings.
Not some embattlement as to how to say some being's name, or the where and whyfor of their motives?!

These motives as well as action and you may laugh when I say this,must rest within the conscious of the Pleiadeans themselves?


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Jay
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Post Number: 188
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Monday, March 31, 2003 - 06:16 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Large_ship,

FIGU's intentions are purely scientifical and "FACTUAL" to the degree that many scientist have proven his (Billy Meier's) contacts and spiritual teaching to be original and not from any other outside source.

The Human splinter group members - SFATH/PTAAH/QUETZAL,SEMJASE so far to this day have been truthful and HONEST to be aunthentic to the last drop of information. The war in Iraq was "SPOKEN" by The PLEJARANS (years before) and not Billy, he was just the mediator and person chosen for the mission which has been going on for over or more than 10,000 yrs. It is basically up to US to fix this earth problem now and not any ancient peoples of Atlantis or for that matter (spiritforms-Personalities) of ourselves who existed at that time, which in what I am saying here is that of our fallen ways from that time of existence no splinter group in these missions will automatically fix these problems since our spiritforms will not evolve by actions of intervention. We must all re-access our way of life and make changes very fast or say goodbye to this planet like that of our other former living planets.

It is understandable that PLEJARANS must in so many ways need to help us clean what may have transpired from ancient time as that of a duty to our spiritform survival. It is intended to be this way until we see the path to our own Evolution in conciousness and free ourselves from the curse of their forefathers.

BE WELL Large Ship

JAY
BE WELL
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Dan
Member

Post Number: 7
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Monday, March 31, 2003 - 08:38 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Large_ship
please change your username.
Unless you are enormously overweight it seems silly to address you like that

Hi Barreto
I am intrigued by your claim of ability to spot liars, but less than impressed with your explanation of why "Billy" is not a liar. Frankly your INSIGHT is worth less than the bits that carried the words. Please enlighten us with your wisdom exactly why "Billy" is for real

-Dan
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Barreto
Member

Post Number: 35
Registered: 04-2002
Posted on Monday, March 31, 2003 - 09:30 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Quote from Large_Ship
..This is why you have pounded your piano voice of reply, in fortissimo, rather than with gentile skill in retort.

Dear Large_Ship

I did not have any intention ... (Deleted upon request by JB. Christian Frehner, Moderator.)

Be Well and Peace to you Large_Ship

José Barreto Silva
Brazil
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Large_ship
Member

Post Number: 8
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2003 - 08:32 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

To Baretto, "I'll meet you on some points"!?

Technically speaking, if one picks up a star atlas, the Pleiades system, is technically listed as the Plejas System.

I hope in the since that Plejerians is used within this posting area, refers to this star listing only and not the term, to Plagiarize?

I adopt the word and memory Pleides and Pleiadeans, from the South American encounters with the Pleideans; there is memory of the word Please, coming from this past association.

So if I keep the word (Please), then this must be grounds for either a transfer of thought, or potential transfer of people.

>I do honestly, sincerely feel, in time to come, that there will be rescue ships, offered to whoever wants to leave Earth in the time to come.

Are the Pleiadeans within this mixture of offworld encounters?
I'm not sure and would not venture to guess, on only FIGU information alone.

However if someone who is an offworld being would ask me what I stand for, as an ambassador; I would say the following.

>I am a proponent of sparingly use lubricants ands the replacement of the internal combustion, as much as possible.Why?

Because in the teelings of some parallel planets that use hydrocarbon fules, only, there is always a tale of never-ending pollution, which ultimately leads to that world being in dire troubles.

>I am a proponent of only so much population density, within a given space.Why?

Because after a certain point, if a society becomes too large, there seems to be a phenomenon where the size of that society starts to shut down vital intersociety biological mechanisms.

>I am a proponent of carefully designed mass housing, where each apartment, is afforded its own greenspot as well as garden.

And that each dwelling is set to face away, or give the illusion, if they want, of having its own space.

The Montreal Expo Habitat, was one such proposal. However' did not fill garden spaces, onto the entire design of the low-cost however independent structure.

>I am for recognizing that every offworld race has a right to be the way they are, without having to meet the standards of another offworld societie's expectations.

Forinstance there are beings I know by Steven's works, that have sexual cognizance only once every two months and there is a lot of hugging, as well as hand holding, which replaces sex for them.

Not all offworld beings should be forced to meet one offworld criteria.

>I am for a centered and publicly accepted trade, commerce, arts, sciences, cultriual exchange series of buildings.This proposed in a park setting, for not only Earth; however within many offworld places, where business needs are known.This knowledge is to the general publics of these worlds and are not hidden values, as they are here on Earth?

>I am cautious concerning the equation of nuclear energy.

This caution comes out of the knowledge that since the central sun is very massive, then so is its gravity.

If this is the case, then when a nuclear detonation is set off, by lines of gravity force.
Then the elements of very concentrated power, are sent by an Einstein Rosenbridge wormhole event, straight into that central sun's operating mechanisms.

This analogy is very similar to putting one hundred and ten proof vodka, into a month only infant's bottle formula, then feeding that infant this now changed baby formula.

Secondly there is a telling by many of the offworld races who have visited here, that radioactive substance, impart a kind of rust-like effect of their radiations.This was said by written material, onto people, plants, as well as solid materials, so causing them to mature early.

In the technical sence, nuclear power, is not good for any one world, however within nature, does naturally exist.

>I am for free transit of Earth peoples, to wherever they want and desire to go, within their business relationships, offworld.

I am not for keeping Earth people pent up as cattle for others genetics purposes, regardless of how noble, or how grand that these needs may be?]]

These are but a few of my beliefs, in reference to how we Earthlings should be realting to the equation of both extraterrestrials, as well as space travel, once and if we should reach this margin.
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Michael_h
New member

Post Number: 2
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2003 - 01:00 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dan,

Regarding why Billy is "for real", for those people who cannot discern the authenticity of the photos, films, video, sound recordings and metal samples for themselves, or for those who are either unaware of or not trusting the scientific analysis that was done on this evidence, we offer an even higher standard of proof.

You can view a significant amount of this at www.andyettheyfly.com where there is a link to a couple of articles regarding the irrefutable scientific proof that is totally unique to the case.

Perhaps if you familiarize yourself with this, and other information which can be found on the site as well as on www.figu.org/us, you will understand that the case requires no belief as the conclusions are inescapable.

Michael Horn
Michael Horn
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Large_ship
Member

Post Number: 9
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2003 - 02:37 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Large ship it is.

Maybe all my hopes are placed on a large ship some day?

Is there a problem with this handle?
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Large_ship
Member

Post Number: 10
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2003 - 04:47 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Michael, I guess this is where the action is, not other parts of FIGUs posting board?

Went to the (www.and yet they fly web site), saved the site to favorites, also looked at the photos.

In the ww . universepeople's.coms web site, there is a picture of a latter type of Pleiadean beamship, as photographed from under a roof-line, through a window in a house.

This is the source tellings, that shows the beamship, a sonic type; appearing to be in two places at once.

With the philosophic line that is held here at FIGU, I guess one could not show any photos of a beamship, from the interior of anyone's house?

This setting would infer fraternization and then this would break the protocols set, by Ptaah, who said that associations with anyone but Billy, were tableau?

Never the less, the photo-sets of the Pleiadean beamship, being at two places at once, is located within the universe people's web site.

Link is http://ww . cosmic-people.com/default_e.htm

Goto the fifth selection down on the left side menu heading, under one thousand pictures once in http-universe?

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Barreto
Member

Post Number: 36
Registered: 04-2002
Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2003 - 07:56 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

DEAR READER, PLEASE NOTE THIS TEXT EXPRESSES ONLY MY SOLE AND FREE THINKER OPINION. J. Barreto

Dear Dan,et all

For me your wordings above (on your posting) are the same as you were saying to me “Gotcha Barreto!”

BUT, my dear fellowman Dan I will definitively NOT tell you who is Billy Meier. You will have to find out for yourself.

Please explore deeply this same Figu website for additional information, books, etc. or this one www.billymeier.com. where you can obtain contact reports also.}

Now let talk a little bit.

This decision if Billy Meier is real or not real in his words, if he is a hoax or not I will ASK of you, if you please, to research on it by yourself.

In first place Dan, if I were to explain to you in plain and clear English why I do believe/trust Mr. Billy Meier is Real and says the Truth you probably or would not believe it, you would be astonished, flabbergasted or maybe would be dizzy and faint.

Secondly: I – J. Barreto – use english as second language only. Therefore I confess to you I do not know enough and correct wordings in english language in order to properly express in plain, neat, and correct english everything I know for “figuring it out” with 100% certainty about Mr. Billy Meier, his Mission and even who he is.

Bear in mind that NOBODY, NO ONE told me to “believe” or not “believe” in Billy and Billy Meier NEVER EVER asks anyone to”believe” him or in what he says. Persons are free to decide by themselves.

Besides Billy is not some kind of “saint” for someone to “believe” in. He is a very normal human being like anybody else, just like you and me.

The final conclusions IF BILLY IS FOR REAL OR NOT I obtained all by myself by means of very serious, conscientious, dedicated and diligent study of every sort of texts, messages, contact reports as many as I could get and also by means of very precise and thoroughful study of ancient literatures existent which anyone can easily find in any good library (and even on the WWW for free) in any place of the world in the following languages: LATIN, GREEK, ENGLISH, and HEBREW to compare semantics, etimology, REAL history, and also to compare certain verses, passages, sitations, etc. and I will recommend some of them to you. I also had to study the WHOLE Bible to fully understand it although I KNOW and GUARANTEE to you dear Dan (or any other reader of this text) with 100% certainty that this pseudo “holy” book one calls “Bible” that is tinted/stained with innocent human blood is ITSELF A SHAMEFUL CONCOCTION written by normal human beings and NOT by any kind of a non-existent God. I state to you Dan that I - J. Barreto - had no need to use his beamship photos to “believe” “in” him.

His photos are “mere consequences” of Truth nothing else. Simply science, technology and that is all and they are not – in my opinion – important for me for my spiritual growth, understanding and acceptance of the TRUTH I found in Billy’s postulates, claimings, writings, and teachings.

Sincerely Dan I would like very much to be direct, straight, and tell you in plain and clear english in FULL BOLD letters the BIGGEST ones possible this discussion board may have to clear out things once and for all not only for you but to every single skeptic, debunker, scholars, pseudo-ufologists, channelers and mediuns and to all those who laugh while reading this posting WHO in REALITY, IN TRUTH and in clear sight of everyone DEFINITIVELY WHO is this man called Eduard Albert “Billy” Meier.

I also guarantee to you Dan that many if not ALL of the conscientious Figu friends, Billy’s friends and supporters JUST like myself ARE ABLE too to tell/differentiate who is a HOAX and a LIAR and who is NOT or who is GENUINE and who is NOT.

This is not some kind of MAGIC or something foolish like that WE I take the liberty to say WE – FIGU FRIENDS – and conscientious persons ARE FEW quite few Dan and hoaxers and liars ARE MANY they are a gigantic multitide, immense and no one is ABLE to count them so huge is the quantity of them. And we know who REALLY is a hoax or not by means of LOGIC AND KNOWLEDGE of some matters concerning Mr. Billy Meier and who he is.
BUT dear Dan as WE are very polite persons, and also have to follow human written laws (legal ones) we DO NOT and CANNOT point/mention directly who are they, or what are their names because in this planet Earth we live humankind considers everything that is wrong as right and everything that is right as wrong AS a great sage from very ancient times properly said:

TJ 26:19. "Half-wits and fools who are not masters over their senses mistake harm for benefit, benefit for harm, and great sorrow for joy…

But not only that Dan.
Humankind besides confounding sadness, pain and sorrow for joy and happiness also BELIEVES in lies instead of REAL TRUTH and if one OPENS HIS MOUTH to SPEAK TRUTH one runs the serious risk to be accused of HERESY and probably would be burnt at the stake after being “properly judged” by some kind of renewed “Holy Inquisition”. One never knows…

INSIGHT and WISDOM:

I do not know what you dear Dan understand by the word INSIGHT and I clearly see that you do not understand the real meaning of this word. No offense at all PEACE in KNOWING we always have something to learn with our fellowman in every single day of our lives. But I will try to explain to you what I do understand by the word INSIGHT and also WISDOM:

Unfortunately Dan I – J. Barreto – humble citizen 44 yrs old and poor mortal human being I do not have/possess Wisdom YET.
Wisdom dear Dan is quite different from Knowledge. Wisdom dear Dan one only obtains after and only after living many and many times, several millions of different lives, incarnated, in flesh, blood and bones, on Planet Earth and AFTER observing diligently how CREATION Dan behaves itself and by itself, only AFTER learning how “the world” around you Dan or Creation and its mirror that is around yourself Dan that you call NATURE behaves itself and once one fully understands the PERFECT HARMONY and immutability of it and how naturally Creation, or Nature if you wish, takes care of itself and totally independent from human hands interference and how beautifully it “works” in harmony and TRUE and REAL Creational Love.

Real words from Enoch (Real Prophet) that were concocted in the so called Enoch’s Book: I took the liberty to properly correct and added the word Creation instead of the concocted word God. (NOTE: One must be very careful when reading existent and ancient “Enoch’s Book” not to mix things!!!)

“Observe ye everything that takes place in the heavens, how they do not change their orbits, and the luminaries which are in the heaven, how they all rise and set in order each in its season, and transgress not against their appointed order. Behold thee earth, and give heed to the things which take place upon it from first to last, how steadfast they are, how none of the things upon earth change, but all the works of Creation appear to you. Behold the summer and the winter, how the whole earth is filled with water, and clouds and dew and rain lie upon it.
Observe and see how in the winter all the trees seem as though they had withered and shed all their leaves, except fourteen trees, which do not lose their foliage but retain the old foliage from two to three years till the new comes.
And again, observe ye the days of summer how the sun is above the earth over against it. And you seek shade and shelter by reason of the heat of the sun, and the earth also burns with growing heat, and so you cannot tread on the earth, or on a rock by reason of its heat.
Observe ye how the trees cover themselves with green leaves and bear fruit: wherefore give ye heed and know with regard to all works of Creation, and recognize how Creation that liveth for ever hath made them so…”
}}

Now you Dan please compare with these words FROM A REAL PROPHET TOO:

TJ 36:2. He said, "Humans should look upward to the stars, for majestic peace and grandeur rule there.

TJ 36:3. "As though by immutable law and order, the infinite and everlasting changes take place there over days, months, years and beyond for centuries, millennia and millions of years.

TJ 36:4. "Humans, however, should also look downward upon the Earth for there, as well, is Creational activity and endless becoming and passing away, and life and existence, toward ever newly developing forms.

TJ 36:5. "Greatness, excellence and beauty rule harmoniously where nature is left to itself.

TJ 32:7. "If humans live according to the laws of Creation, they live correctly in truth. But the ultimate goal should be this:

TJ 32:8. "Everything human within human beings must die, but everything of Creation within them must rise and embrace Creation.

TJ 32:9. "Consider the universe as the place where Creation lives in infinity.

Now dear Dan after you or ANYONE ELSE have/has learnt/grasped all this by simply observing Creation around one/yourself (No Magic at all it is simply LOGIC dear Dan) one has got WISDOM Dan you must then join together KNOWLEDGE AND WISDOM and you obtain HARMONY and these “three” things/tools that in REALITY are not “three” BUT ONE SOLE THING you’ll understand LOVE and at the same time you’ll will be able to understand the REAL MEANING of the world CREATION I mention and mentioned many times here and by chance (at the same time!) you DAN will understand WHO YOU ARE!

BUT, dear Dan to attain this INSIGHT I repeat to you I-N-S-I-G-H-T you so beautiful WORD DAN INSIGHT you my dear friend you will have firstly to KNOCK AND KNOCK AND KNOCK on the doors that when opened will lead you to REAL TRUTH and KNOWLEDGE just like I myself knocked many times for many years since I was 12 yrs. old (again I am 44 now) and as I explained above to dear Large_Ship that I restate unfortunately is knocking on wrong doors – sorry me dear Large_Ship.

Dan I gave to you the fishing pole BUT I will not give you the fish. INSIGHT dear Dan is a very personal ”thing” Dan it is a Internal “stuff” as it is implied in the word itself IN-SIGHT to look very deeply within yourself not for CHANNELED BOOKS and/or listening to HOAXERS AND LIARS or the lies that are in the so called \i“holy”} books. This feeling Dan deep inside, in my HEART, in my soul is IMPOSSIBLE to describe for me and even for Mr. Billy Meier himself to write it down in words you dear Dan will have to feel it all by yourself no one of us, neither I myself, neither Billy or anybody else in the world dead or alive is able to teach you what is this FEELING this INSIGHT you mocked be about in your reply/questioning of my posting on this Figu’s Discussion Forum. Even if I could write all existent words from every single country of this Planet Earth I would NOT be able to describe to you dear Dan WHY I KNOW BILLY IS TELLING THE TRUTH.

INSIGHT dear Dan that you mockingly despised for me is WORTH every single BIT of every single human being that was KILLED, ASSASSINATED by the sword, spears, arrows, by burning at the stakes of the “holy church”, human beings that were drowned, decapitated, cooked in boiling hot oil, slaughtered by the name of the “holy cross”.
INSIGHT dear Dan is something YOU and ONLY YOU yourself WILL HAVE to FEEL to FULLY UNDERSTAND THIS MAN MANY PERSONS STAINED HIS NAME WITH LIES AND WHOSE NAME IS EDUARD ALBERT “BILLY” MEIER.

Do you like puzzles/charades dear Dan?
Solve this one if you can:

“JUDAS ISCARIOTES WHEREVER YOUR SPIRT-FORM MAY BE I DO LOVE YOU VERY MUCH!”

Research Dan, SERIOUS research and knocking on right door! that is “INSIGHT” dear Dan.

Best Regards and
Saalome and Knowledge

José Barreto Silva
Brazil
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Christian
Moderator

Post Number: 43
Registered: 02-2000
Posted on Wednesday, April 02, 2003 - 08:54 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi José,

Please take notice that you make shorter postings in the future. This was a last exception. If you want to publish your thoughts in detail you can publish it on your own web site.
Our Discussion Board is meant for shorter messages, and not for articles. (The same applies to other authors as well, of course.)

Salome,
Christian
Moderator
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Large_ship
Member

Post Number: 11
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 03, 2003 - 08:11 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Mr. Barreto'

Are you aware of rental equipment with your same last name?

If so, have you driven around to see it?

If your taking this ride and pass by, can you take someone like me for a ride too!?

Do you own an unuasual car?
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Barreto
Member

Post Number: 37
Registered: 04-2002
Posted on Thursday, April 03, 2003 - 08:14 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Large_ship

Unfortunately dear friend I am not related to this equipment rental center you have mentioned. But “Barreto” there is only one, only one on whole planet, I mean myself I live far away from you in a very peaceful country.

Dear friend it would be really an immense pleasure for me to personally not only to take you for a ride in my car but I also would take you by the hand and bring you to my country where you would be able to see many quite awesome beaches that as you look towards the sea, just behind you, close to the sea, there are very amazing mountains, with very deep green trees and plants, with many sorts of orchideas, big butterflies with blue or green metallic hue wings and hummingbirds I am sure you have never seen in your whole life and also narrow and long trails, where we could have a nice walk for hours with other friendly and peaceful persons among the trees, nice boulders, and crystal clear (drinkable) water streams, listening to the sound of many different birds, waterfalls and amazing natural swimming pools not created by human hands but by Creation itself . In sincerity dear Large_Ship I myself and my whole family would take you to ride in our car yes sir! In one week together both of us could have a real talk about some Real Truths there are oh yeah! one on one, face to face friend to friend, heart to heart and definitively NOT by using this ice cold thing called computer and Internet one cannot feel deep in his heart or by looking straight into the eyes - eye into eye - of your friend/interlocutor and to really know if the other person behind your display miles, away from you, is a real, sincere, and a friendly/cool person (he/she) for every hours you can count with or not. But there are a quite few friendly and sincere ones you are able to “read between the lines” while changing e-mails. Do you understand?

Unfortunately I am not allowed to talk/speak/type/write much here in this house of discussion otherwise it will be considered an “article” but I will be glad, in sincerity, to give you my personal e-mail if you wish. I will not disclose my e-mail here but please feel free to visit Plejarans_are_real in Yahoo Groups or www.eduardmeier.org also and then maybe we can talk very very deeply, step-by-step and in Truth one on one by mail if you wish and maybe even chat online. What do you think? Well… you are free..

Be Well dear Large_Ship

And Peace/Saalome to you, human being in search of truth, I wish you will find it one of these days and maybe you will be surprised.

You are among friends here in Figu Discussion Board and Mr. Billy Meier Friends also.
(suggestion: Why don’t you change your nick to StarShip?)

P-S – I do not know if I will be allowed to post this message to you Large_Ship but anyway…there it goes…if not this one will be, definitively, the last one.


José Barreto Silva
Brazil
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Dan
Member

Post Number: 8
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 03:11 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yo

Jesus Christ! (no pun intended : )
who put way to many quarters in Barreto?
so much text and not a single word worth reading

It just occurred to me that absolutely no one on this site have anything to offer anymore other than waste of time. The last couple of posts are certainly brain (deleted.)

And the almighty "Figu" shares information like the NSA does. not at all. Incompetence or not I don't care anymore.
It doesn't even matter if Mr. Meier is telling the truth. If he is, then there is a technological advanced race that think "creation" is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but for some reason they don't fell like sharing any relevant information about it, so we are stuck anyway. If Meier is lying or self delusional it is also a big waste of time. Either way this Figu BS is going no where and fast.

I'll check in from time to time to see if more of the figu material has become available online but I have no hope of that ever happening.

Later
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Scott
Moderator

Post Number: 343
Registered: 07-2000
Posted on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 01:48 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Dan,

What do you consider to be relevant information?

As I see it, there is much more FIGU material available through Billy's writings, then you will find on all of the combined websites.

From my point of view it really depends on what you are interested in. If your interested in learning more about the life of Jmmanuel, you might consider reading the Talmud and also checking out James Deardorff's website.

Have you read "And Yet They Fly", which has quite a bit of information about many aspects of this case?

You mentioned FIGU BS, what exactly are you referring to? I have to ask you, what do you expect FIGU or anyone else to do for you? Information, truth, ufology, genetics, science, studies regarding the spirit etc, are not limited to the FIGU myself or anyone I know. The FIGU as I see it, is a group of like minded people who are interested in many of the things which I mentioned earlier. Billy is a very good resource of information and knowledge (in my opinion) then many of the so-called experts and scholars currently on this planet.

I think before you throw in the towel, you might consider doing more looking into the written materials being offered and expand your scope of searching beyond the Internet.

Good luck
Scott


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Barreto
Member

Post Number: 38
Registered: 04-2002
Posted on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 11:53 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dan

Certain persons like yourself who have a FOUL mouth, and perfectly shows what is your mind like (or what your brains are made of!) and characters like you, senseless ones, no inner perceptions and no feelings inside at all it will take billions and billions of years for you Dan
just to begin, to start to understand, or to scratch only a small fraction a single 0,001% of what is really Billy's Mission on Earth and what is going on...

The world is full of persons like you pal...Take this blindfold off your eyes Dan...

I will not tell you more in full respect to all my fellowmen!

I would really like to have your private e-mail Dan so you would read by yourself WITH your own very eyes what is 'a single word worth reading' pal...
José Barreto Silva
Brazil
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Truthseeker
Member

Post Number: 7
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 02:27 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Greetings Dan,

If FIGU is such a big waist of your time, then I'm surprised that you've waisted this much time with FIGU this long which can only mean that you have a lot of time on your hands. My suggestion, You may want to concern yourself elsewhere, such as with the "Raliens" sense the Raliens and others like it will probably be more up your ally of enjoyment of constructive skepticism, but as a reminder there is a difference between being skeptical of something and being sarcastic. There are better ways of expressing if a persons post(s) is not to your satisfaction. Sense you already have an opinion of what you call "FIGU BS", then you may not want to come back here to check out anymore online information. Sense everyone has a right to their own opinions of which I do respect from all people, then guaranteed, anymore online FIGU information, will more then likely have you disappointed. Perhaps you should quit looking for things that disappoint you and look for other more "productive" things that you enjoy. I'm further surprised that FIGU moderators did not delete your post which from my perspective it tends to show a bit of sarcasm as that kind of thinking is not what FIGU is about and it does go against forum guidelines. Lastly I hope you find what you're looking for because I don't think you're going to find it here. My suggestions.

Good luck in your search!

Truthseeker

Moderators; peoples comments are welcome, but please do not allow posts of a sarcastic nature to be posted as this will cause reactions from everyone here. Thanks!

In my view 2 things come into play in allowing the previous post by Dan.

1. This is considered the skeptics corner, so a small degree of latitude I believe is permissable.

2 If the response to Dans post is within reason and fosters insight into new avenues of understanding, (such as the following post by Jay) thats one thing, but if it generates an excessive number of posts which stray from the subject, then it becomes a different matter.

Thanks Scott
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Jay
Member

Post Number: 189
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 04:59 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Dan,

If I were you I would take a closer look at the news these past two days about what scientist have discovered in terms of our DNA makeup. If you have been listening to the news today, there are a few articles in circulation right now which speak of the final connection to our DNA. It never seizes to fail how THE CONTACT NOTES have been RIGHT and Exact to its smallest detail my friend DANand of course the information has been told almost about 10 yrs ago to be more precise. As you can see the Plejarans have spoken of us being able to Brake the DNA code and ensue a new era in DNA life extension and it comes at a good time for you my friend since you feel that still Billy is a Joke to you. As spoken by Article:

"WASHINGTON APRIL 15. The book of genetic instructions for the human body is complete to an accuracy of 99.99 percent, a scientific achievement once deemed impossible, but now considered the foundation for a new era of medical advances, an international research team said.

With the entire sequence in hand and available to scientists worldwide, experts predicted it would lead to new drugs, better forecasts of people's health and new ways to treat or prevent many of the most devastating human illnesses."


That there is what I call a SMALL step for man here on Earth :-)

BE WELL Dan}
BE WELL
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Barreto
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Post Number: 39
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Posted on Wednesday, April 16, 2003 - 11:33 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear all,

We love our wonderful Universe, and we love our beautiful planet Earth, its Nature, its abundant Life, Creation itself! And we also love Truth beyond and above anything else.

When something you love is dirtied, you try to clean it up. When something you love is attacked, you try to defend it. By endurance we conquer.

For a good understander just half a word is enough!

Taken from: Gaiaguys from Australia and just a lil' bit changed by me.

Peace in Knowing and
Saalome
José Barreto Silva
Brazil
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Large_ship
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Posted on Monday, April 21, 2003 - 03:50 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

To Jay'

I feel that the Plejarians, Pleiadeans have problems with the DNA code, via their mixing, as well.

The Earth is considered a harsher climate, being located near to this central sun.

The problems of overstaleness, as well as environmental pollution, coupled with gasoline usage, make normally functioning DNA, always a problem.
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Jplagasse
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Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 - 08:27 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Regarding mixing DNA...
"Our" old Enoch stories tell of giants being born from a "mixture" between the et's genetics & "ours".
Pretty mean people to say the least (offspring) for the most part, at least according to the old stories.
Any wonder there is a "hands off" policy (between the et's & ourselves) today?
JP
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Norm
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Posted on Sunday, April 27, 2003 - 08:56 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jp, Billy said the ETs from the past were Large because of a different gravity on their home planet. It wasn't because they were a mixture.
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George
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Posted on Friday, May 02, 2003 - 10:19 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jp,
some Tibetan sources say Earth rotation used to be 12 hrs per day(not 24) for a long time. Faster spin rate. That means that gravity was approx. 50% less thus less gravity the taller the people.

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Edward
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Posted on Saturday, May 03, 2003 - 03:43 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi George and All...


I once watched an educational study and this concerned Also that the earth has
indeed..."Slowed-Down"...in her rotation. And thus, was also caused by the "Extra-ordinary Weight" our Mother Earth has to endure.
As Billy has also made clear that our Mother Earth is Indeed...Over-Populated, Too Many people concentrated in one place, the Heavy Concrete and Metal constructions....etc.
Which Is a Very Logical explaination of this Manifestation. Which I have Acknowledged for long also.

But still we have to keep in mind: in the Middle-Ages...Man Was "Smaller" than todays man! This is verified by the old houses and furnitures
and the armered harnuses..the Knights wore in those days. And that man Today...Did Grow somewhat Taller; which seems to be cause by the good and balanced nourishments man can consume today.
So it seems the foods our children eat will in some way...effect their growth Pattern enabeling them to grow in length again. Which does, more or less, Contradict...some of the mentioned facts.

So it seems, to western standards, that the offspring of the western world is
indeed becoming Taller human beings again. As I can verify; my parents being Smaller than I, and their Grand Children...being Taller than I! Which seems to be the case...with many people I know also.
So I would think a "Genetic-Build-up" of a person's body would play part here even.(different peoples differing in lengths,but,still living in the Same Gravitational Pull: a Pygmy has for example Not changed in length)


Edward.
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George
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Posted on Saturday, May 03, 2003 - 10:52 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Edward,
I agree with you to a point. Point is that yes you can increase the growth by introducing growth hormone in milk from feeding of the live stock etc. Question is how long will this growth continue before gravity, nature and evolution will make its correction like - britle bones slower brain functioning rate and other. What you're seeing I think is a comback to normal size of 6 to 7 feet high from the times of stunted growth rate due to industrial age toxic environmet or earlier enviroment which had a lot of unchecked deseases/plagues roaming about. During the earlier Earth rotational 12hr cycle normal earth humans were of average hight of 12 feet and so called gods were about 20 feet or more in stature. I think that Pigmies represent either a evolutionary change due to adverse living conditions or this is yet another race that came to live on the Earth with their DNA hard set for smaller growth for milions of years of living in adverse conditions in other star system.

Regards

George
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Howard
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Posted on Sunday, May 11, 2003 - 08:40 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hi, im just wondering about something; why does semjase and quetzal have names like demons?

As Semjasa in the book of enoch, and quetzal as "the feathered snake" in Guatemala?
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Edward
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Posted on Tuesday, May 13, 2003 - 09:18 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Howard...

The Name "Semjase" and "Semjasa" Are Not...Related! And the same with "Quetzal"...which you refer as "The Feathered Snake".

If you use the "Search-engine"(Above)...you may find the whole explanation concerning. This was once discussed some time back.


Edward.
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Howard
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Posted on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 03:43 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I mean the Talmud doesnt look at all like the Bible. I once met the angel Uriel. I wonder why this ET"s always present a differnt view on the bible? Read the bible, and try to accept that jesus died for our sins, and you will finally see clearly the true light of Jesus The Christ. Amen.
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George
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Posted on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 11:50 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Howard,
your belief to be Real and not just be a popular fantasy held on to by millions must be based on verifiable facts. We have looked for them but found none. Like nobody has seen God yet. There are no original New Testament documents to prove that this is how it really went with Jesus so it could have been all 'sucked out of the thumb' so to speak. On contrary no matter where you look in the BIBLE text if you probe deep enough you will start to see big big errors. For example just like 'flat earth theory' if you go through verses of genealogy and add all life spans of patriarhs you find out that Adam, Earth and Heavens were created about 5000 years ago(now keep in mind this book is supposed to be verified at all times by non other then Holy Gost himself - that means it should be perfect absolutely no errors). Now on your next trip to California stop at the Sequoia N. Park you will find out that some of the trees growing there are close to 14,000 years old. You can count the rings for factual proof. And this is just one of many many errors in this text. Point is - your belief has to be based on Truth and Truth is always verifiable by factual proof. You cannot just belive others because they believed others...etc. You must know for sure and when you do then you can tell others.

Regards
George
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Edward
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Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2003 - 05:27 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Howard...


Ofcourse...the Bible and "The Talmud of Jmmanuel" are Not Identical!

The Talmud of Jmmanuel was written With Truth, and by a Great man that walked
aside Jmmanuel by the name of - Judas Iscariot - to Record The True Events of "The True Prophet" and The Ture Spiritual Teachings of Creation and the Laws of Nature, and "Logic"; in Jmmanuel's lifetime when walking here on earth.

As the Torah of the Jewish Religion was Altered and Falsefied in those early days by the Jewish Scribes...etc...As was the Bible(a CLONE thereof!), "Tampered With" and Altered and Falsefied(Paul-Saul)..and even till This Day...the Bible is Still Being Tampered with and Altered and Falsefied by others that still Follow the Judaic-Christian Religion(s). And All "Interpreting"...to their Own liking. There Never
...seems to be an end to this all. It is an Endless "Glorification".

Ofcourse, in those early days the mentioned above were Truely "Manipulated" by Out-side Dark Forces which liked surely to Direct these Low-Evolved earth humans
to their liking to "En-Slave" them by these False writings of religion to "Dominate" the Whole worldly population! And till This Day...all those False Religions DO...En-Slave their People as was the intention of those Dark Extraterrestrial Forces...wanted to realize, and into manifestation.

The Dark Forces at work had great knowledge of technology, which they utilized all
sorts of mechanizations to Manipulate the Minds of those who are/were Weak and which was of great value to them to execute their Evilish Dark agends. Which was ofcourse...alas...succesful for them. So the Weak....were experiencing False Heavenly or Holy Visions..and go so on. Which made them "Believe" they were indeed having encounters with GOD of other godly entities...when this all.. was Telepathicailly.. "Induced" to them, ofcourse without them being aware of this manifestation. For they know not better.

So, the above mentioned Clearifies the Whole Mystery of the Torah and it's CLONE... the Bible. Which one could call today... as a "Rip-Off"! When there are/is...Indeed Passages in these writings that were "Stolen" from the Talmud of
Jammnuel..which are the only things which they have in common.

George Also has made some very good points to his posting.
The example with the tree is ofcourse a very very good example. And so we can go on..with many other examples; like the many Pre-Historical Bones and Fossils that
have been found, and which go back Millions and Millions of years!
And another example would be; if the were only One Adam and One Eve, and they
would have children... and they gotten older and wanted to have offspring, they would have to "In-Breed" or..."Incest"...if you will, to have their children! So there would be just One Big Orgy of Incest in manifestation..in their Family-Tree. Which would not Result in a Balanced Out-Come of Healthy offspring.

So, Howard...If I may advise you; Please do not let your Religion "Stagnate" your
Path to Knowledge and True Wisdom...; which Is There... Out There For You... to Absorbe into your Spiritual-Consciousness.
Do Not let Religion... make you "One-Sided"... as Samjase would say.
Give your Consciousness "The Freedom" to "Discover and Explore"... the many
Beautiful Things and Possibilities Creation has to Offer you; to Expand to Greater Levels, and Dimentions of Reality... and Truth. Do Not let your Religion "Limite" you to Spiritual Growth.
"Which IS... Your Right!"

So Please Purchase and Explore Billy's Books and Booklets, this will Not hurt you in any way. It can only "Open" your Eyes... and your Consciousness.


Edward.
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Howard
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Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2003 - 02:15 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is just way to sought.
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Der_beobachter
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Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 05:06 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Vielsprachige Mitteilung zur Welt:
Multilingual Message to the World:
Message multilingue au Monde:
Comunicazione plurilingue al Mondo:
El Mensaje poligloto al Mundo:


Nur die Wirkliche Wahrheit wird Überwiegen!

Only the Real Truth Shall Prevail!

Seulement la Vraie Vérité Prédominera!

¡Sólo la Verdad Real Prevalecerá!

Solamente la Vera Verità Prevarrà!

Só a Verdade Verdadeira Prevalecerá!

Saalome!

Bye Bye J.C!
Der Beobachter Edelweiß
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Der_beobachter
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Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 05:14 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Vielsprachige Mitteilung zur Welt:
Multilingual Message to the World:
Message multilingue au Monde:
Comunicazione plurilingue al Mondo:
El Mensaje poligloto al Mundo:


Nur die Wirkliche Wahrheit wird Überwiegen!

Only the Real Truth Shall Prevail!

Seulement la Vraie Vérité Prédominera!

¡Sólo la Verdad Real Prevalecerá!

Solamente la Vera Verità Prevarrà!

Só a Verdade Verdadeira Prevalecerá!




Masterpiece number 2!

Saalome!

Der Beobachter Edelweiß
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Howard
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Posted on Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 04:31 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It seems like the tre is moving when the "ship is moving in the Hasenböl above Fischenthal movie. it seems quite obvious. it seems like a hoaks.
why are the other ones blinking? could anyone give me an explanation on these?
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Der_beobachter
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Posted on Monday, August 18, 2003 - 06:45 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Antilogos your time is coming.....
Jesus Christ IS THE REAL EVIL ON PLANET EARTH!
Art made by Edelweiß... translation of English into German too...
Greek Language is the Secret...

Soon more to come.

666=jesus christ the evil one
Der Beobachter Edelweiß
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Der_beobachter
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Posted on Monday, August 18, 2003 - 07:04 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mitteilung zur Welt:
Message to the World:
Message au Monde:
Comunicazione al Mondo:
El Mensaje al Mundo:

What more on Earth in the name of the false Love?
Das was mehr auf der Erde im Namen der falschen Liebe?

Seine Liebe ist falsch! Seine Liebe ist der Tod und das Blut und Lügen!

His love is fake! His love is Death and Blood and Lies!

Jesus ist der Teufel selbst, der von verrückten Personen geschaffen wird,... eine Lüge!
Jesus is the Devil himself created by crazy persons...a lie!

antilogos is himself the evil one CHRIST

Only Truth Shall Prevail! The ANTILOGOS and his LIES SHALL VANISH from the surface of our Planet Earth!

TJ 3:25. Die Lüge widersteht niemals der Wahrheit, die in ihrem Feuer das Übel vernichtet.>>

TJ 3:25. "The lie can never withstand the truth, which destroys evil in its fire."


Der Beobachter Edelweiß
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Howard
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Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 08:02 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Then why has munks who have been worshiping Jesus always been so peacefull? I dont see our priests here in NOrway as evil, their as peacefull as lambs! The child of evil is Satan, and they who dont consider his existance, do not recognize our religious history. The true study of the testament is a way of enlightenment. To consider Jesus as 666 is just childish and immature. I think Billy is far out in this case. I understand why some of the apostels mean we have enemies in space... The Petale Level must be of a total lack of respect for other peoples opinions, and cosmic laws, says one cannot condemn anyone for their opinions.
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Der_beobachter
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Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 10:50 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

To Howard and whoever it may concern, AND MAINLY TO THE CHURCHMEN from every denominations, colors and hues....enjoy!

Howard...Howard...Howard...
When are you going to learn oh Howard????

Put fire on your Bible Howard! The Fire of Truth!

There was a time that it was forbidden to read the Bible in Greek Language did you know that?
Now I ask of you. Do you know why?
Because in Greek one - a wise one I mean and who has EYES to see and understand - can find out WHO is the Beast 666.
If someone tried to make interpretations of Greek texts in the Bible one could be burnt by the CHURCH OF HELL knows by humankind as Christian Church the Real Hell and Fire and Blood on Earth along with many other churches and millions of Temples there are.
Read Revelations of John in Greek to find out....



Zu Howard und wer auch, den es vielleicht betrifft,
Howard...Howard...Howard...
Ach, wann werden Sie lernen Howard????
Setzen Sie Feuer durch Ihren Bible Howard das Feuer der Wahrheit!

Es gab ein Zeit, dass es verboten wurde, die Bibel in griechischer Sprache zu lesen, wussten Sie das?

Jetzt frage ich von Ihnen. Kennen Sie warum?
Weil in griechisch man, ein weises ich meine und das AUGEN hat zu sehen, und versteht, kann es herausfinden, wer das Tier 666 ist.
Wenn sich jemand bemühte, Auslegungen griechischer Texte in der Bibel eine zu machen, konnte von der KIRCHE OF HELL verbrannt werden, weiß durch die Menschheit die Real Hell und das Feuer und Blut zusammen mit vielen anderen Kirchen auf der Erde als christliche Kirche und Millionen von Tempeln es gibt.
Lesen Sie Johannes Offenbarung zu Fund in Griechisch vor....


Now one more nice picture for your delight and to the Eyes of those who knows about the Truth.
Jetzt ein netteres Bild für Ihr Vergnügen und zu den Augen von jenen, die von der Wahrheit wissen.


the devil is jesus yes sir!
Christ The ASSASSIN of Truth with his Book of Evil Teachings on His Hands - The Book of Lies and deceiving.
Christus Der ASSASSIN der Wahrheit mit seinem Buch von Böser Lehre über Seine Hände, Das Buch von Lügen und das Betrügen.

I AM THE SON OF LIES, I AM JESUS - THE EVIL ONE - CHRIST=666 I LIKE TO DRINK HUMAN BLOOD!
Ich bin DER SOHN der LÜGEN, den ich JESUS- DAS Böse-CHRISTUS=666, den ich MENSCHLICHES BLUT gern trinke, bin!

Greek Language is The Secret - Greek Language is Da Bomb! Yeah! 666 is his number = XESUS CHRISTUS
Griechische Sprache ist Die Geheime, griechische Sprache ist Die Bombe! Ja! 666 sind seine Zahl = = XESUS CHRISTUS

Geniessen Sie die Planetenerde, weil dies Wahrheit ist!
Enjoy Planet Earth because this is TRUTH!

Alle Texte in englischen und deutschen Sprachübersetzungen von Der Beobachter Edelweiss. ( Bilden auch!)
All texts in English and German Language Translations by Der Beobachter Edelweiss. (Images too!)

Der Beobachter Edelweiß
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Der_beobachter
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Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 11:03 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Enjoy Howard and Skeptics....

JESUS: THE SWINE!

Iesoús The Romans transliterated that, giving it the Latin “-vs (-us) masculine suffix: Iesús (IESVS). In the 14th century, initial “I letters were extended below the line in order to distinguish it from the “l Iesús (jesús)
"Je-SUS" pronounced Gee-SOOCE and this is from the Latin word/name
"Ie-SUS" pronounced Ee-SOOCE. The suffix is the same as the latin word for "PIG".
"Je-SUS"pronounced Gee-SOOCE and this is from the Latin word/name "Ie-SUS" pronounced Ee-SOOCE. The suffix is the same as the latin word for "PIG".
Excluding the Greek word/name, this Latin word for SWINE i.e. pig---"SUS" is identical in writing to the suffix of the Latin and the English transliteration "Ie-SUS" and "Je-SUS". "SUS" pronounced "SOOCE" or "ZUS" in English! In Latin it means "SWINE" i.e. PIG, and has the same sound as the Greek suffix in the word/name "Ie-SOUS" , pronounced "SOOCE" Here are some more interesting parallels In the Spanish translations of the scriptures such as in Mexico for example the name is written "Je-sus" but it is pronounced He or HEY - SOOCE. Both the suffix spelling and sound of the suffix is the same for the Latin word "SUS",which means SWINE. (According to the dictionary this word SWINE can also mean a CONTEMPTIBLE Person) THE LITERAL WRITTEN PARALLELS ARE THERE! THE LITERAL PHONETIC PARALLELS ARE THERE!
JESUS: THE SWINE
[ME fr.OE swin; akin to OHG swin swine LATIN -SUS--more at SOW]
1: any of various stout-bodied short legged omnivorous mammals (family Suidae) with a thick bristly skin and long mobile snout; esp: a domesticated member of the species (Sus Scrofa) that includes the European wild boar-usu. used collectively 2: a contemptible person (Webster's Seventh New Collegiate Dictionary)
The Catholic Church uses the Latin a DEAD LANGUAGE, whose words always retain the same meaning: 1: To preserve the “original doctrine in all it's purity;
2: To safeguard the proper “Forms of the Sacraments;
(The Converts Catechism of Catholic Doctrine) If you look you can easily see the the latin word for pig is written "SUS"! Not hard to understand is it?
According to the Catholic's the meaning in Latin DON'T CHANGE!
Now take a real hard look at this, what do Christians call their Savior?
"Je-SUS" pronounced Gee-SOOCE and this is from the Latin word/name "Ie-SUS" pronounced Ee-SOOCE.
The suffix is the same as the latin word for "PIG".
Did you know that there was a Celtic “demon god by the name "ESUS" pronounced Ee-SOOCE also know as "HESUS" pronounced He or Hey -SOOCE. This god was worship by the ancient Druids (Dictionary of Pagan Religions) page 117 and page 152
"SOOS" in Hebrew can mean "Horse". But in Latin it has a totally different meaning. "SUS".suis 1. Prop.: A swine, hog.pig, boar,sow:


his is 666
passage below MUST be read in GREEK to be understood!

Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number [is] Six hundred threescore [and] six.

Deutscher Sprache: Offenbarung 13:18
13:18 Hier ist Weisheit! Wer Verstand hat, der überlege die Zahl des Tiers; denn es ist eines Menschen Zahl, und seine Zahl ist sechshundertsechsundsechzig. (LUT)


In the 16th century, the "J" version of the “I" adopted a new sound, like in “X". "XEZVS" in Roman letters: Xesús (Jesús). We can clearly observe that Revelations 13:18 looses real meaning/sense when original Greek numbers are translated in other languages to written form as six-hundred-and-sixty-six. :-)

Hello,

I would like to remind everyone who is particpating in this "discussion" that the purpose of this section of the forum is for those who doubt or question the authenticity of the Billy Meier case. Any discussions regarding this should be conducted in a clear and mature way with the intent of understanding anothers point of view in a respectful way. For those who feel they have an ax to grind, I recommend finding another alternative. Thank you-Moderator



Der Beobachter Edelweiß
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Markc
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Post Number: 58
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Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 12:02 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hola Jose ;

I have to say , that with all the understanding that we have come by in this study , that it seems to me ,in my opinion , that to express such outward hate and offensiveness is wholly irresponsible .

I'll explain how I mean ,Jose , because I know you mean well , and you have put alot into the graphics work .


A picture may tell a thousand words , but in this case , it doesn't say enough - it brands those who align themselves with it , at first glance , as being totally contrary and hateful beings .

So you see , it gives this whole forum and the mission a kind of extremist , radical bent that I find unsettling . Most people who are NOT unaquainted with this study will not give your words surrounding your picture 10 seconds before looking away . It seems to play to those of us who are aquainted with the Spiritual teachings and the mission , but I will have to say that I think it is a bit destructive and regressive in approach . It seems to seek to force opinion on the viewer .

I know that you are enthusiastic , but perhaps you will find some sense in my words . They are not designed against you. You may Consider my advice as being seasoned , as I have observed you for some time coming to this .

Salome , Mark
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Howard
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Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 04:21 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There has been many unhealthy parts of the UFO arena at least, not to mention Wendendelle Stevens who was judged for Child Molestation.
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Torrent
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Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 06:39 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello,people.

I have visited this room quite a while and found out the focus on issue,authenticity of the Billy Meier case, has derailed recently.
It looks very absurd to discuss if Jesus is evil or not, because we all know that he showed up in front of us to bring teachings of love (in the view of Christianity) and laws of Creation.
It is all our fault (or fault of the entire human) we've twisted and ignored his teachings for ages, which brought about so many pains and miseries.

I think Christianity lacks a sold foundation in that sense, because it doesn’t teach what Jesus taught, but what people in power wanted us to believe, not to mention it is totally ignorant of the laws of Creation.

And please stop depicting Jesus as satin or evil. I see the total ignorance and hatred in your urges to turn your back on the truth.
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Gicayhwh
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Post Number: 6
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Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 07:10 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear all,

It seems that some earth inhabitants are not so happy about being alive, so I say fine...
Semjase the daugther of Ptaah, may have spend her life on Earth for not satisfying some of Earth creatures, but in the long run I can see peace.
Let the rest of us think positive, please,
Thank you,
With love
Gicayhwh
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Truthseeker
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Post Number: 45
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Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 09:37 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Greetings Jose,

May I suggest that you go about your task in a more positive-neutral way. As much as Christianity may be on the path to self destruction, may I also remind you that many more Christians are not with this intention in mind. So instead of lets say burning down all the cathedrals and churches with a big black "666", I think we should instead use Billy's teachings to to correct the problem in a more peaceful objective approach. Such as one could rewrite the Bible as it really should be and then give others the option of reading it and formulating their own opinions. First we read all of Billy's books such as the OM, prophecies, etc, then we re-write the whole bible with all its new corrections, definitions and information. Billy and the Plejarans have done much of this already such as what we see with the TJ and other ancient prophecies. The rest could perhaps be re-corrected like this:

John 3-5: Jmmanuel answered, "Truly I say to you, unless one is initiated by his own spirit into creations wisdom, he cannot begin to recognize truth and experience creations perfection.

John 14:6: Jmmanuel said to him, I know the ways of life with wisdom. Let me show you the ways of creation.

Isaiah 40:31: Those who seek out the truth for themselves will become wise in spirit.

Ok we can point out the truth to others, but we should not shove it down peoples throats if they don't understand. I love your good valid research concerning the 666 and Jesus, but it should be posted in a more positive-neutral way which means not getting involved in the drama of the situation when presenting an observation for other to contemplate.

Peace in knowing,

James Truthseeker
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Howard
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Post Number: 45
Registered: 05-2003
Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 05:58 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Are every one here wanting to become somekind of an anti-christ? The bible tells us that christians will be victims of persecution in the future, and see that as the long-time effect of the Talmud. Eventhough the intentions of creating peace with the Talmud is the point here, I cant see why the low-evolutioned people here on earth will be able to absorb it as what it is, an ALTERNATIVE view on christianity. Anti-semittic and d anti-christian behaviour will be the effect in the long run, and that will not create peace, it will probably cause an mass-psychosis.
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Der_beobachter
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Post Number: 3
Registered: 05-2003
Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 01:44 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear FIGU friends, Skeptics, Howard and whoever it may concern.

I come here OPENLY in front of all of you to say that I am sorry for my total Irresponsible Act here on this Forum.

I STATE here that FIGU or any of its Moderators, friends, Figu offical members DOES NOT have any resposibility AND DOES NOT HAVE NOTHING to do with all the above texts/comments and images that I myself posted here and I state here that the total and absolute responsibility is SOLE mine.. this idea was born inside my mind and sole mine and no one else.

My sole intention was to DIRECT those comments and images to certain persons behind the Black Curtains of deceiving people this one intended to the ONES who hide themselves behind the bushes of their lies like wolves lurking in the darkeness of their lies, those....those out there...who peep....and it was NOT intended to innocent people Like I myself was and after all a long time ago I myself was also a 'christian' and also member of several different so alled 'secret orders'(no secret at all and nothing to offer), new-age freaks groups (well known ones) for many years a long time ago now this past..forgot...

So I also was an innocent human being trying to reach I what I thought was 'true' knowledge then I realized I was wrong...

I cannot help feeling a certain pain in my heart when I look around myself and realize/see the horrors of this world we are living and then I realize I ALONE cannot do too much to help 'clean' this horror from the face of the Earth.

I am a very very Sincere Person. I am not an Evil Person.. I am Full of real love to share to people and besides feeling 'hate' is not a good sensation in one's heart this feeling I do not have inside me..but indignation.
I do not feel shy or any shame to come here in front of the eyes of THE SOLE FRIENDS I really have on this Earth and ask - in front of all Planet Earth - to say I am sorry for that act.

Enough hate and sadness is already on this Blue Planet of ours and it was not my intention to 'drop' one more drop of sadness on this Sea of Sorrows.

I had a second thought... a change of heart... for this while... I wish I could go back in time and erase what I did here...but it is too late now.

Any comments, critics, reprimends, complaints about the postings above Shall be directed ONLY towards me... and not to any friend or member or moderator of this Forum.
They have nothing to do with my comments. I wrote it.. I created it.. I posted it here I imagined it.



...AND YET HE/IT IS HE/IT IS....as certain as the Earth revolves around the Sun....
Der Beobachter Edelweiß
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Gicayhwh
Member

Post Number: 8
Registered: 06-2003
Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 02:54 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Howard,

The Crist you are talking about is a 2k years story. There was a y2k fear not long ago. Let's be with the present, Saddam, Buch, dayly bread and earnings and be one with the right people.
If we hate our progress, then how we can help each other?
With love,
GicaYhwh
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Savio
Member

Post Number: 430
Registered: 07-2000
Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 10:14 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Howard

I would think it is not productive to argue on one's belief, it is a waste of time and will never arrive to anywhere.

Just imagine what can be achieved if a Christian argues with a Muslim on their beliefs?

A belief is a faith based on something without proof, hence there is no point to argue which one has the truth.

As a sincere Christian who would like to present his faith here, I would like to ask you to prove the following :

1. Prove the existence of the God that you believe in.
2. Prove that the God is the creator of the universe and of human.

If you cannot prove it, then the foundation of your faith is in doubt; perhaps it is time to look into the "proofs" of Billy Meier?

Regards

Savio
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Markc
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Post Number: 59
Registered: 06-2000
Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 10:39 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Salome gruss der Beobachter ;

I think the whole thing is not such an earth shaking horror , the graphics posted above . If it was so terrible , the moderators would not have let it be posted . I'm kind of surprised that they did , but this is a learning forum , and if anyone here learns from this example , then better .

If I'm not mistaken , they can be erased , removed very easily . If they are not , then maybe there is a reason...? I don't know . My post above was my opinion , just like anyone's . Maybe it would have been less painful to email you privately with my thoughts concerning it , but it's not possible from here .

If you want it removed , I think they will do it ....unless you posted it with crazy glue ( crazy glue is a quick bonding product that enables construction workers to bond their helmets to a metal beam 1000 feet in the air , for no apparent reason . The makers of crazy glue(TM)( marcas registradas) make no claim towards any of the concepts or comments made here in this forum , or by the poor construction worker who may be shouting after their friends have gone to lunch and left them there .)
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Edward
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Post Number: 308
Registered: 05-2002
Posted on Sunday, August 24, 2003 - 05:08 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Howard....

Howard....We Here at this FIGU-Discussion Board...are Not "Anti-Christ"..in any way...or manner...or Form. We...Just Do Not Agree...with the "Christian-Priciples"!

You mentioning: "The bible tells us that christians will be victims of persecution in the future"...and further "Anti-semittic and anti-christian behaviour will be the effect in the long run".

Well, Howard...what you have mentioned is Just The Consequences - The Effect -...which was Created by the "Judeo/Catholic/Christians"...in the First
Place! How do you think...Henoch...could to tell Future Prophecies! I myself Not being a Prophet...Also was aware...of such Out-Come/Results/Consequences/Effect...as Henoch mentioned, while in..my Own Search To Truth....in life.

If you Know your "World History"..you can Automatically..."Calculate"...the Out-Come and The Consquences..."Cause and Effect"..; that WILL take Place Towards...the Judeo/Catholic/Christain Religions(and All others Same Orientated and 'New Age' that have also "Branched"...there out of).

In North America...there was a "Great Genocide"...
of More then atleast...40 Million Indians(Not to foreget; the Canadian, Middle and South American Indians Also!! - in The Millions!!!)! Than not to foreget, the Millions of African Slaves, The Australian Aboriginals...also..in the Millions, In India...and other parts of Asia..which are also estimated in the Millions!
And This ALL..,"The Genocides",..In The Name Of A GodHead...that Did Not Even Exist!

I always Knew....there would be a Great Big...
Confrontation...in the near future...as even Henoch...had mentioned in his Prophecies. Which Only "Verified"..this all into True Facts...of manifestation! When One Utilizes...One's "Common Sense and Logic"...One Would Surely...Conclude...to
the Same Conclusion(s).

Thus, I would not "Complaint"..concerning " Victims of Persecution", as This All...is the "Effect"... "Caused"..by the above mentioned "False" Religions.

It Is "The False Teachings of Religion(s)"...that Creates.." Mass-Psychosis"...which "Blocks"...The Minds of Humans...in their True Spiritual and
Physical..Evolution(Search) and lead them astray..; and To Even More..."Darkness"! Far from the Light....Of...Creation!


Edward.
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Der_beobachter
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Post Number: 4
Registered: 05-2003
Posted on Sunday, August 24, 2003 - 05:31 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello MarKc and many real Friends,

Thank you for your words my friend but...deep inside I felt very sad indeed after a second thought what I did was to amass happiness at the cost of the tears of others unaware of what is going on this Earth and also innocent human beings that are completely unaware of Billy's Mission...Figu etc.

This act of mine served as a lesson to myself.

Hmmm...:-) anyway... I see I am not alone here...with the "act" of posting it :-) ;-) Some "magic" invisible finger pressed the button: OK then approved "enter post it with crazy glue"...;-)

Now again... I THANK YOU all my friends for your words ONLY REAL friends and true brothers would write me words like that. I understand you all M.H. MarkC and many others...

I love you all very very Much!

I've learnt the lesson with my error...

Responsibility and Sincerity above all!!!

And Edward.. nice and wise words of yours. We are not Antichrists We are Anti-Lies.


Der Beobachter Edelweiß
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Markc
Member

Post Number: 60
Registered: 06-2000
Posted on Sunday, August 24, 2003 - 11:09 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, Jose and Edward , The Antichrist is the christ itself : the anti-logos , the anti-logic.
The human sacrifice worshipping church .

It's wasn't Jmmanuel ( jesus) that was the problem , but the mistaken role of "saviour" and so-called "son- of -god" . His true role as Prophet was comepletely ignored by those who created christainity .

We all know this , and by now quite easy to understand , but to those who see it for the first time , it's like an assault ; or the manifestation of what they were warned about with "false prophets" . However , they do not even recognize their beloved Jesus Idol as a prophet , truly strange . And such beleif is held out of unconscious fear mindlessly by followers who keep tradition for tradition's sake .

Salome , Mark
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Howard
Member

Post Number: 52
Registered: 05-2003
Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 12:06 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How can you say that you are anti-lies? There is no real evidence that the Talmud is real, it is really quite obvious that it needs more evidence to be factual. The proof of christianity as I see it, is the so many letters and evangeliums that are alike, and the acts. And also that so many believe in it, that they are having an experience of it as real. You need quite moore proof to say the NT is fake.

Howard
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Markc
Member

Post Number: 62
Registered: 06-2000
Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 09:31 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You take good care of you , Jose . We have to watch our thinking . It's amazing how little problems will just go away when we ignore them .

Salome , Mark
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Gicayhwh
Member

Post Number: 9
Registered: 06-2003
Posted on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 07:07 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Howard,

My parents raised me up as an eastern orthodox.
So, now, after many years of various types of yoga
training and computer learning, I found the greatest teacher one seeks in life. Mr. Meier.
The Best

With love,
gicayhwh
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Der_beobachter
Member

Post Number: 5
Registered: 05-2003
Posted on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 10:10 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Howard,

How could I explain to you with words how I know Talmud Jmmanuel is FOR REAL? I studied it, comma by comma, dot by dot, word by word, letter by letter and compared and compared over and over again....line by line, thought by thought... Logic my friend pure and simple and Real Logic thinking, hermeneutics...understanding.

How can I describe to you things that cannot be described by written words even if it was possible for me to describe it to you it would be impossible to explain it Howard I think you would not understand it. (no harm or offense intended please understand, far from that light years far from that Howard.)

Read a lot dear Howard, research for yourself, study, compare, think...some understood it with just a glance...and some took years to understand.

And besides...as a good friend of mine wisely said...Talmud of Jmmanuel is just the small, tiny Tip of the GIGANTIC and IMMENSE Iceberg... there is more..and more and more...much more besides Talmud Jmmanuel and other True and Real knowledge related to Billy's teachings, texts, contacts, etc. You have to study it little by little and it may take minutes, hours, days, months, years and even millions and millions of years to understand it.

But you will get there my friend, I am sure.

There is much you can learn here on this FIGU website dear Howard...explore it to find it for yourself. Just by reading other several different postings here you can learn a lot explore it also and join the links by yourself.

There is not much I can say to you, unfortunately Howard...it is something related to Inner Perceptions also, very difficult to explain.. you have to FEEL it for yourself and this I cannot share with you and also CANNOT teach you how to understand it not that I do not want it BUT because it is impossible to explain or to teach...even to Billy Meier himself he cannot teach you that it is an Inner, allow me to say, Eye..the eye of the Spirit my friend and you have to open this Eye for yourself I cannot do it for you and nobody on this Earth can do it for you.

Diligent and serious study, comparisons, ancient history, all the links are there, contained, interwoven in history Howard.

Only you yourself have the Key to Unlock the Knowledge and I myself do not have the this Key because it is within yourself.

Maybe if you like to solve riddles like this one below you can Unlock the Code to Knowledge within YOURSELF that no else possess but only You.

Read on and think...
**************
The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao.
The name that can be named is not the eternal name.
The nameless is the beginning of heaven and Earth.
The named is the mother of the ten thousand things.
Ever desireless, one can see the mystery.
Ever desiring, one sees the manifestations.
These two spring from the same source but differ in name; this appears as darkness.
Darkness within darkness.
The gate to all mystery.

Look, it cannot be seen - it is beyond form.
Listen, it cannot be heard - it is beyond sound.
Grasp, it cannot be held - it is intangible.
These three are indefinable;
Therefore they are joined in one.

From above it is not bright;
From below it is not dark:
An unbroken thread beyond description.
It returns to nothingness.
The form of the formless,
The image of the imageless,
It is called indefinable and beyond imagination.

From Lao Tse's Tao Te King
**************

Howard please note this the word Tao is translated into German Language as Sinn or that means Mind/Thought or Conscience. Got it?.;-) and for me, as I understand it it is Creation my friend pure and simple quite different from "god" and NOTHING to do with what you understand by "god".

Yes Howard Wonder of all Wonders...my friend and I say to you my friend once one has felt the REAL LOVE of Creation inside one's heart one cannot be totally happy in this world...anymore...an experience of mine that you would not believe...

Look around and think...Howard ;-) you have the mind of a truthseeker Howard...Did you know that?. Peace in Knowing.

Be Well and
Saalome Howard

Der Beobachter Edelweiß
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Howard
Member

Post Number: 57
Registered: 05-2003
Posted on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 08:19 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I certainly respect your friendly aproach to me Beobachter, as others some others dont have on this forum. Actually, I was in in a sense of serious doubt in christianity when i found the Billy Meier teachings, then i mean only the spiritual part. I was also partly convinced by the talmud, because the rest of the information of the case was so deep and so huge, that the talmud was just peanuts. The spirtitual teachings fit in with the Talmud. But I wasnt to known in the field of the bible myself, and when I finally read it through and through, I was convinced that the talmud could not be real. It was filled with flaws, and I felt the NT was kind of perfection. It explained to me how the work and life of jesus all revelated what was the end of all necceserity for any spiritual teaching. He did it all on the cross. He gave us what we religious people here on earth had really sought, a divine mercy, heaven. If you really look into the bible, you will find every information you will need concerning the final spiritual part, the end. The irony of it all is that it is given to us humans, not Arahat Arhatshata or what they are called, who are so hopelessly far awy on the evolutionary ladder that there is no where back. It is coming straighly from God, to give us a straight way up to Heaven, relieving us from our "karma", or sin as you might call it. THe inner feeling you are talking about, that convinces you about feeling the talmud is real, is described in the bible. Its called a misleading, so they believe the lie.
Then your personality will for ever perish, you must seriously be awarte of this, its not you who will incarnate into a new body, you will for ever be lost. Your spirit is only learning.

Ive been following this website for over two years, so I know what im studiying. I find it quite interesting how God made it for us when we "bit of the three of knowledge". When Billy states in the sections for questions that the bible is the book of lies, I find it quite hopeless, the bible may contain some lies, but may be inspired by the holy spirit.
His qvasi-biblical teachings doesnt get to its point.

Howard
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Der_beobachter
Member

Post Number: 6
Registered: 05-2003
Posted on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 01:13 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Howard,

A Tentative of Guidance...

Who am I to assume I know everything? I am just a simple student and will continue to be one like many others here for an indefinite time as long as I live but I have a proposition for you or a few useful "hints" or guidelines so that you can research for yourself to take your own conclusions, by using intelligence and diligent study of some interesting points.

I am not a know-it-all nor a wannabe, a poseur, but I will try to give you here some instructions as to how you can start to grasp or grab the end of the thread of Ariadne.(Have you read the Greek legend of the Minotauros.Do you remember that thread of Ariadne?)
Theseus, had killed the ox-head -human-body monster Minotauros hidden in Labyrinth with aid of Ariadne who gave him a sword and a thread ball. Theseus used to find his way back to the exit of the labyrint?)

So I will give you - as the saying goes - the fishing pole but I cannot give the fish for this you will to " fish" for yourself and you will have to find the "tip", the end or start of this thread.

Have you ever heard or read about a jewish writer/historian whose name is Flavius Josephus.

Your first step is to do the following Howard therefore pay attention to my explanations here.

Try to study and research about Flavius Josephus. Read about his biography, what he wrote and relate Flavius (please note an Orthodox Jew).

Then relate this to a text, very short citation on a ancient text known as Testimonium Flavianum.

(Refers to Antiquities of the Jews books written by Flavius Josephus)

After you have studied Flavius Josephus you will start to realize some important, paradoxal/controversial points.

Ok then... Howard start first with the above guidance to you. Try to find what does Testimonium Flavianum means, what is it about and study it.

One more thing. Study again the Talmud Jmmanuel BUT compare it then with Luke, Mark, and John.
Try to find the existing differences of texts between them and ask yourself why the NT passages are different. Ask yourself why the verses/texts are different and compare them with the redationists Matthew, Luke, Mark, and John.
You must bear in your mind that you will have to compare verse by verse, line by line both Talmud of Jmmanuel and the redators of NT.
Prepare pencil and a copybook to study.

Write some lines or questionings you may have about the texts and try to answer it for yourself.

A good start also is the following. Go to Dr. Jim Deardorff website http://www.tjresearch.info/ explore it deeply and if it is possible for you try do copy and paste, or download many of his webpages that are related to his own study and comparative researches with other non religinous scholars and specilists in religous texts. By doing this you can read Dr. Jim's website offline and calmly study it.

You must study deeply, his foot notes, take note of the names of the authors Dr. Jim refers on his researches, etc. You must go deep into diligently with an open mind, no bias/prejudices.

To start this study you must clean your mind of any known "christian" study you have.

After this you answer to me please the following questions below. (study and research first for yourself.)

1)-Who was Flavius Josephus?
2)-What is Testimonium Flavianum and why is it called so?
3)-Answer to yourself firstly what is an Orthodox Jew?, his/her beliefs etc and relate jewish orthodoxy with historical "christianism" the way you know it.
4)-How come an Orthodox Jew honor or highly praise a so called "christian Messiah" in an outward "christian" sense if this person, in this case Josephus himself, is a jewish himself?. Explain it.

You can start your readings here

I am available to come back with further guidance on this and other things if you wish. science, history, semantics, and such, if you wish so.
Do you accept my defy or my guidance to you.
We can have a conversation offline, I mean off this board if you wish and I can give you more hints or guidelines if you wish, feel free to decide.

Note Flavius Josephus is not the only one reference I/we have but this ancient writer's texts will serve to start this study of yours ok. There more many more references but for this while let us start with this name ok.

Peace in knowing and
Saalome!

_____________________
"Scholars beware: the UFO-biblical connections are real."
Dr. Jim Deardorff

___________________________
"Truth will first be ridiculed, then violently opposed, and finally accepted as self-evident"
Arthur Schopenhauer 1788-1860
Der Beobachter Edelweiß
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Jay
Member

Post Number: 205
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 03:13 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well My friend Howard,

Is going to take alot of scientifical proof for the bible to come to life in this day and time, reason for this is that the TALMUD was revealed to us by ASKET (A Plejaran Contact Extraterrestrial) to be accurate and scientifically concrete to the dot. As for the Bible there is no evidence which states the so called Jesus died for "OUR" sins, it is is nothing more than additions to scriptures of the times. This as many as other factual proofs by PLEJARANS has been openned to us in this Year 2003 or the decades which followed this date.

The PLEJARANS are not joking and the TALMUD has been traced using their technologies and given to Billy Meier to open the reality and the truth of Jmmanuel. The Reality of this is that the The Plejarans as a high spiritual beings which they are, the capability to trace these things to their formal lives as well. Example of this is QUETZAL (he was GABRIEL back in the scriptures and now he is who he is in the spiritform personality of QUETZAL. What does this say about the Mission???... it says that it is solid for the past 3000 years since their existence in those times and who received the knowlege of creation at that time????... it was Jmmanuel who else. Jmmanuel as the spirit form of Billy Meier. Why is this happening???? because us all part of the whole 2000 or 3000 year mission to replace this madness we call planet earth.

The Plejarans are spiritforms continuing the saga of replacing most or all the things which all other GODS or overlords created here on earth.

Salome Howard

J.
Saalome and BE WELL
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Der_beobachter
Member

Post Number: 7
Registered: 05-2003
Posted on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 07:31 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello Jay and Howard,

Jay welcome back!! Jay, you forgot to mention to Howard that Gabriel's spirit-form is the same one of JSHWSH QUETZAL and was also the same one who had contact with prophet Mohammed later, more than 500 years after Jmmanuel. (Howard nothing to do with inexistent "holy winged angels").


Howard here is a link for you to start your independent study and comparative analysis of texts I suggested to you above. You will have plenty of time to study it.

www.members.aol.com/FLJOSEPHUS/ntparallels.htm

Study the texts with attention. Refer the parallels contained there and the discrepancies and absurdities in NT mentioned there with the verses and TRUTH contained in Talmud Jmmanuel. Compare it with NT verse by verse, take notes and such to understand. Enjoy it and learn then we can talk later...
I will discuss with you only after you have understand everything, having taken your conclusions and then present me with good arguments regarding the TJ.
(Forget words such as "The Saviour", "our sins", "God's Salvation", demons, etc.)

Be Well and
Saalome!

TJ 32:45. "And it can be read in the stars that the people of the new age will be great revolutionaries. Thus, some special predestined people, who will be the new proclaimers of my teachings, will preach them unfalsified and with great courage.

Der Beobachter Edelweiß
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Jay
Member

Post Number: 206
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Sunday, August 31, 2003 - 10:59 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Der Beobachter and Howard,

I did not make myself clear of the Spiritform of QUETZAL, is the Spiritform of our former GABRIEL.

As mentioned by Billy Meier in one of my questions, some spiritforms depending on the evolution of the spiritform can find out former lives from times past such as QUETZAL has done.

Not all PLEJARANS or groups of these other humans from any part of the Universe have the ability as of yet to know their former lives. It would only depend on the evolution of the Spiritform within each existing human.
Saalome and BE WELL
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Kingvegita
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Post Number: 2
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2003 - 06:58 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I tried to post before, but didn't realize that I didn't, now I must retype everything :-(

Well, I'm not a skeptic, but I'm not a full believer either. There are many things that I'm unclear about, which hopefully someone can explain, or even fail to explain so I can come to an opinion.

I first read about Billy in a book called "Alien Agenda" which touched on him. They made it pretty clear that Billy's accounts cannot be solidly proven or disproven. It seems extremely unlikely that he could fake what he has shown, given his conditions of constant scrutiny. However, the materials are so freely distributed that their authenticity cannot be proven either. I saw the videos on the site myself, and though I cannot see how he could have the time or privacy to digitally alter the video enough to fake it, I find it hard to understand why a Pliedian ship would rock back and forth in such a manner to make it look like it's on a string. It certainly would have been more believable if it then landed and we could see Billy actually walk inside it.

It is also hard to believe that Billy would be the only contactee of this entire group of Pliedians. After all, if they wish to help the Earth in some spiritual and philosophical transformation, wouldn't they want to contact more than just one guy who can easily be ignored by the media?

There is a site I stumbled upon when researching for an astronomy paper on whether or not it's physically possible for extraterrestrials to be visiting us, (btw any info on how they actually do this might be helpful for that) called ZetaTalk. I certainly have to agree, even more than this site, with the religious and political views given on that site. However, it does have the problem that it predicts a catostrophic pole shift in the next 2 months, which generally makes a site uncredible.

However, their view on Billy Meier was that he was visited, in the 70's, but has fabricated much in the way of the visits. For one, he gave the name Semjase to several different Pliedians to simplify. Another was that his recent visitations didn't even happen. Another yet is that when he speaks of the "Destroyer" he has no idea of timeframe. Though he places it far in the future, they claim that he actually asked not to be told when it would happen and hence wasn't told. Also, he isn't the only contactee of the Pliedians according to them. I don't know if these claims are credible or not, but I'd like to find out. Is there any solid way for Billy to prove that his claims in these areas are correct and theirs are wrong. I can't quite make a blind faith choice and side with either claim.

So, if anyone can help me with this information, and show me one way or the other, it would be greatly appreciated. Also, where is the literature that everyone is always talking about on this forum?
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David_chance
Member

Post Number: 8
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2003 - 10:43 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A compilation of links to the web-based FIGU literature can be found here:
http://www25.brinkster.com/chancede/Meier.html
Also included are links to "pro" and "con" websites.
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Savio
Member

Post Number: 446
Registered: 07-2000
Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2003 - 09:35 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Kingvegita

I would like to draw your attention to the posting of Michael Horn on Wednesday, November 20, 2002 - 08:10 pm:

The Billy Meier UFO Contacts: Proof Beyond A Reasonable Doubt.

You may like to read here:
http://forum.figu.org/us/messages/12/1179.html#POST9163

Happy searching :-)

Savio



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Markc
Member

Post Number: 89
Registered: 06-2000
Posted on Thursday, October 16, 2003 - 12:00 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Kingvegetiria ;

Several observations about your post : The ship didn't rock back and forth as on a string . An object on a string has no way to suspend it's delivery while on either side , like Semjase's ship did in the film . In plain words , the ship went to one side , hesitated for a moment , and swung back . Do objects on strings use brakes like on a car ? The reason it went back and forth was as a demonstration , because Semjase knew that the camera lens only has a small area to capture a scene . Hence the back and forth movement .I think people expect real UFO's to look like the ones in movies .Maybe in the movies they look more convincing ; I don't know .

About the Destroyer , yes he does know the timeframe of all the times that it has been here before , including the flood of Noah's time .

As far as several Pleiadians being given the name Semjase , this is typical innacurate reporting . Twisting information by inattention . It seems that these people you refer to did not pay attention .Semjase was his early contact . Semjaza was another ET who was influencial on early civilization here on earth .Notice the difference in their names . Also ,it is quite possible for two people of a race or planet to have the same first names . Don't make me explain that one to you .

I have a recommendation as well as a request ;
Please look over the site and read , read , read . Then you will find the answers you are looking for .If you search the discussion forum you will find even more information ! It's really a remarkable website , so use your provided resources . This is much too hard for some people who visit this site , and so they ask the same questions again and again , However , they have thoroughly read the "galactic server" ,anti-Meier sites , etc . This website is a tool for your education .

Mark Campbell
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Kingvegita
Member

Post Number: 5
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Monday, October 20, 2003 - 09:08 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm going to check out that one link I got. As for my sources, it's beings that claim to be of another extraterrestrial race that are in contact with the Pleiadeans. I don't know if they're credible, but I cannot say for certain that Billy is 100% credible. Perhaps that article that I'm going to read now will show otherwise though.

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