| Author | Message | ||
    Norm Member Post Number: 866 Registered: 02-2000 |
Jo_jo, No not at all, I personally never believed it was done by Bombs. I just wanted to clear up the Conspiracies that think otherwise. My Website | ||
Kiril Member Post Number: 86 Registered: 12-2005 |
Norm: For some time after viewing the video called " Loose Change"(http://theyfly.com/newsletter/march06/march06.htm) I was convinced that the collapse of the towers was engineered. The turning point for me was when I found out about the unique internal construction of the towers - that is, each floor consists of floor boards placed across a series of light weight beam-constructions(they are not solid but a supportive lattice composed of many short,thin metal sections that form a beam) that are themselves secured at the outer frame of the building only(by large bolts) --> a certain portion of these floors, at the centre, is removed to make way for the elevators, however there is no extra support at that point or any other on any given floor, unlike all the buildings that the towers were compared to in the said video. The collapse of floors becomes very likely and the orderely(seemingly orchestrated) collapse of the towers is explained by the chain reaction of floors collapsing on each other - steadily increasing in mass and therefore velocity. What was the turning point for you? Cheers, Kiril | ||
Melli Member Post Number: 109 Registered: 06-2005 |
Dear Norm, I also read Billy's response to your question about the WTC bombing... After I read it again to make sure I am reading it correctly, my mind started questioning all the information I read on so many sites, one particularly good one is the one Dyson refers to: want to know.info I get the feeling that Billy cannot be 'open' as he could be and diplomacy is not his style. With the current political situation in the US amongst so may global problems where engineers and architects/ builders, Martin Sheen and other media people, etc. are questioning the perfection of the buildings callapse, I smell something very rotten. I can only hypothesise by saying that I reckon the planes activated the bombs installed in the buildings, just before their arrival by carefully synchronizing the impact and also I would ask this Question: did real and willing pilots flew these planes, or were the planes maybe remote controlleD? I can only imagine how sophisticated these planes could be specifically for such a scripted disater? everything is at stake here, so everything was taken care of, or was it? To be frank I stopped thinking about it, because I came to the conclusion that people are afraid to hear the truth, but when I am with friends and the topic arises, I point out the website and tell them what I know, naturally they are shocked in disbelief. | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 85 Registered: 07-2004 |
Billy is right it wasn't bombs..it was done with Thermite. This element quickly superheats and turns steel to molten metal. Clear evidence of molten steel pools weeks after the collapse, and support beams with massive dried drips are part of the evidence that point to a controlled demolition of the towers. And of course the best evidence is building 7 which collapsed without being hit by a plane. Mr. Silverman, who had recently insured all the buildings and collected nearly a billion dollars, remarked on a PBS program that " there had been to much loss of life already so we decided to 'pull' the building(7)". To 'pull' a building means to demolish it in a controlled collapse. It takes weeks of preparations to carefully arrange for a building to be prep'd for this to happen. Building 7 was meant to be destroyed by the plane that was shot down in Pennsylvania ( not brought down by the story of the 'brave' men who rushed the terrorists) evidenced by the 5 mile long carnage scattered as the plane came down. Several eyewitnesses saw a explosion in the air before the plane crashed. The whole event was clearly orchestrated by a well planned and highly placed organization of individuals with access to crucial segments of our countries militarily protected airspace that is normally not approachable to airplanes for more than a mere minute or two without being met with a fighter jet inspecting it up close. The hijacked planes were in the air nearly a full hour. The evidence is actually overwhelming. Which one of these sounds more like a conspiracy theory.... 19 unqualified arab men with box-cutters, commandeering 4 planes simultaneously without any communication between them, hitting 75% of their targets without any help from a control tower helping guide them( which any commercial pilot will tell you is impossible) and two of the hijackers perfectly preserved id's are found while all else is pulverized or vaporized... or... a black-ops like organization with access to many of our countries protective layers, directing a highly technical operation that would be impossible unless critical timing could be maintained and directed from a central command center( which building 7 contained). The event was a extremely well planned operation which would cost millions of traceable dollars unless funded through a black budget. If you research the materials it becomes very clear who was involved. If you accept what is broadcast to you through the news, you'll only hear the 'Official Story'. If you need links I can supply you with enough that you should be able to reach a decision wholly of your own reasoning, as logic is clearly laid out for the people who use their minds. a friend in america Shawn | ||
Norm Member Post Number: 868 Registered: 02-2000 |
I'm posting here because I don't know where the posts here went. I never believed the conspiracy that the buildings were bombed! I only asked that question for all of you who wanted to know but were afraid to ask, because maybe Billy's answer would upset your apple cart! It makes no difference whether the buildings come down to these people all they needed was the attack to happen. To risk putting bombs in the buildings was not necessary & to risky if things didn't work right. Norm, I have had to move posts from the Moon landings to this area, because this area has already been established for this topic. When checking for posts I always use the 1/3/7 day selection rather than the topic selection. The post you are referring to is in this section. Scott My Website | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 87 Registered: 07-2004 |
>Hi Norm, Some very interesting documented information details how one month prior to 911, complete floors of the Twin Towers were 100% blocked off to any business or personnel whatsoever, so an updated system (?) could be installed by private contractors. These were 2-3 floors at a time and were completely covered with black plastic and maintained 24hr security around the perimeter. Of course one of Bush's nephew's was in charge of overseeing security for the Twin Towers at the time. Does this seem normal? Don't know what they were doing, but it definitely gives them the opportunity. Norm, can you explain the sudden collapse of building 7, which wasn't hit by a plane and only had a few small fires that never increased to a 'steel melting inferno' . And Mr. Silverstein on a PBS documentary admitted they " pulled it (building 7) to save lives". To 'pull' a building means setting precision charges at critical points in it's structure, so as to make the building free fall into it's footstep. This takes weeks of professionally preparing to complete a perfect destruction. Can explain WTC7? It would be in Billy's best interest to allow as much vagueness as possible in his response's to 911. The people who brought those buildings down are extremely powerful and even more deadly. > a friend in america Shawn | ||
Norm Member Post Number: 870 Registered: 02-2000 |
Kingman, Billy is in no Danger after 21 attempts. Ok, folks I'm not buying it until Billy's says its true. Sorry but I followed too many conspiracies in the past to find out that a bunch them were false!  I just refuse to devote time in that direction anymore where every single event is a conspiracy! I can believe the NeoCons or whoever looked the other way & let it happen but adding Bombs / Thermite is going too far, when there's no need to go that far. If Billy is lying like some of you say, then why would he even bother with letting us know about conspiracies like the moon conspiracy that's surely to make him look foolish. When he could have avoided it like your claiming he's doing with the WTC. So I'm not buying it.My Website | ||
Scott Moderator Post Number: 806 Registered: 12-1999 |
Hi Norm, Before you throw in the towel regarding 911, try reading this link: http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2006/240406thermiteidentified.htm I asked Billy years ago about contrails/chemtrails and he didn't think anything unusual was going on, but there are many people who have come forth who have been witnessing this for years. I wonder if Billy would come right out and say yes 911 was an inside job and more than just the planes brought the WTC buildings down? It seems to me I also remember him saying the truth would come out, which I think is what is happening now. Possibly for many people thinking that the US was involved in this event, is too much to comprehend at this point. I don't know if the Plejarens have done any investigating into this, as they did with flight 800, because they supplied their observations with some detail, which in my book added credibility to their findings. Scott | ||
Norm Member Post Number: 871 Registered: 02-2000 |
"It seems to me I also remember him saying the truth would come out" Yea the fact that they knew it was going to happen not that they planned it. My Website | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 88 Registered: 07-2004 |
Hi Norm, Has it done well for you to 'stick' to your parameters of allowing someone else to think for you. I have a hard time believing that this is a solid, logical position to have in todays information society. I've been researching the neo-con agenda for nearly a decade , and unless you've completely blocked out all political news for the last 6 years, it is glaringly obvious that our current administration has zero regards for life, zero regards for liberty, zero regards for future generations, and the majority of politicians are absolutely and utterly compromised by the corporate powers. They all vote in lock step. They are caught lying about the reasons we went to war with a country that had nothing to do with 911. They all spew an organized 'talking points' agenda, and are constantly demonizing anyone who doesn't " support the troops". Our protective oversight of the different branches of government that are there to maintain balance are all under the control of Republicans, and these people only answer to what their party dictates. They've drained every account to maintain this illegal war. All the donators to the Bush administration are now war profiteering (death merchants). Billions are unaccounted for in Iraq. They've doubled our national debt. No vetos are necessary by Bush. All bills get passed by a rubber stamp Republican majority. These idiots continue the rhetoric of the ' War on Terrorism' talk, and terrorism is really truly induced by our war mongering. They hawk their 'stay the course' arguments in Iraq, when they actually have no plan to finish the war. The concern is not for Billy, Norm. Our country is in a seriously volatile time of it's history. The prophecy's aren't all rosy for the USA, and the time frame of when these events may happen aren't given, so it could be now. I enjoy life everyday and I find this to be very easy. I still struggle with challenges, but I've come to actually enjoy the overcoming of the difficult times as much as the easy times. I understand life this way, not the way a chicken little character with his " the sky is falling" fear belief. All the negatives I just posted above are factors that are changing our world, and not for the better. We are required to think for ourselves. That is so necessary for our survival. And we need to start doing this now, not waiting around for the 'All's clear ' sign from someone else. The answers are all available if you just begin to look for yourself. I cannot bury my head in the sand because I fell once for a previous ' conspiracy theory' and now I regard them as all just bogus, ridiculous false scenarios. An absolute mountain of real hard evidence, backed by extremely qualified people with real credentials, is available if you care enough to look. a friend in america Shawn | ||
Norm Member Post Number: 872 Registered: 02-2000 |
Kingman, I get the point, I know their EVIL! But that still doesn't mean they had to go to the furthest extreme to get the job done. Everbody wants to take it to the extreme. So letting the attack happen wasn't good enough for them. Ok explain to me why they had to go the next step & blow the building? I want a reason. My Website | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 89 Registered: 07-2004 |
Norm, to get this country to want to go to war, not need, but want to go to war it would require an event like the attack on Pearl Harbor. We needed to believe we were already at war. The neo-cons even spelled this out in a PNAC ( Project for a New American Century) statement made well before 911. Don't make me do your homework. A fricken reason why they needed to blow the building. Here's another one: Building 7 contained all the critical files on Enron, and WorldCom, companies you've probably never heard of, hey Norm. Bush could care less if those files were destroyed right? Here's something maybe you might grasp. Never in the history of the known world have steel framed high-rise buildings ever collapsed due to fires. Other high-rise buildings have burned for days and still did not collapse. The flaming infernos that were described never existed...check all the firemen radio recordings. The crews were on the floors where the planes hit and were able to announce that two(2!) crews would be able to quickly contain the fires that supposedly were these raging super heated steel-melting monster infernos. The simple physics is enough. JET FUEL DOESN'T BURN HOT ENOUGH TO MELT STEEL. THE FUEL WAS NEARLY ALL BURNT IN THE FIRST FIVE MINUTES! THOSE BUILDINGS WERE STRATEGICALLY DESTROYED BY A PSYOP EVENT TO EMOTIONALLY CAPTURE AMERICAN SENTIMENTS WITH A BLINDING DESIRE FOR REVENGE. A NEO-CON BLANK CHECK! Norm, try using logical thinking. Yes, this takes an effort and I'm sorry for that. I served your desire for a reason. What are your thoughts now? a friend in america Shawn | ||
Norm Member Post Number: 873 Registered: 02-2000 |
Kingman, My thoughts are. That you believe Billy Meier is not telling the truth? I've said enough on this topic. I hope in the future the real truth will be known no matter what it is. My Website | ||
Rarena Member Post Number: 38 Registered: 10-2005 |
Dear folks... My two cents on 911. It was around July 2001 when a lady named Aiasha came to visit and stay with my family in my home with her husband. Aiasha a very beautiful and intelligent Indian lady was employed by the Department of Agriculture to inspect incoming fruits and vegetables for illegal chemicals (I.E. DDT, etc) used in the production of foreign imports. She worked high up in one of the World Trade Center buildings until about three days before her visit. Being a top biochemist, she was trained in United Arab Emerites and received her doctorate at Princeton in the US. She quit, she said, because she was tired of resisting bribes that came from the other countries to turn her back on the importation of Chilean grapes for example, which she claimed contained DDT. If you remember from Racheal Carsons' book , Silent Spring... which started the environmental movement in the sixties and has in some cases gone overboard... she mentioned that DDT was a reason birds lost the shells of their eggs. Hence, the silent spring. Anyway Aiasha, my biochemist friend, being of sound mind and moral attitude would not accept the bribes and quit her job, just months before 911. Her husband was an alcoholic and tried to hack into my computer and other various "suspect" things one of which we immediately found out, was NOT her husband and tried to get me to fight him in my home. He was very pro Arab and said the Arabs would attack us miserable milksaps very soon in one of his drunken stoopers. A few months later, the horrible disaster happened to create fear in Americans and thereby gain control over them/us. Who, I don't know, but seeing the evidence it appears to be an inside job. The small cruise missle in the Pentagon... flight 93 inconsistancies... it may have been shot down... the quick identity of the guilty parties... the actions of the President watching children read books for a half hour. Then came the nightime pipeline bombings in the countries our government was invading with a vice president being head of a large pipeline rebuilding company it just fits. The raids were carried out at night, these are heavily guarded by the indigenous countryman for their energy needs, it sounds like special forces units. I could be wrong, I hope I'm wrong, but I don't know. Governments no longer are in power. Multinational companies with billions of dollars for lobbiests to buy politicians in strong governmental positions who are keeping us in the dark with technology stagnation like the internal combustion engine because there is still money to be made from the one trillion gallons of oil, lubricant for the earths' continential plates, in the ground. This is being done with our tax dollars and our childrens' lives in the wars in the middle east. With all this negativity, it is against the Creative laws. We must educate the public and our friends that we do not need to do this or fight with the same low and slow energy. Meditate for peace. What is positive that has come from 911 you may ask? That is the way people, firemen, laborors, engineers etc... have all joined together to clean up the mess or just give the working men and women some food and water for their efforts. That is the goodness of humane people, brother for brother, sister for sister, we stand united, we stand together, don't let greed pull us apart. Tschüs... rarena ô¿ô Saalome gam naan ben uurda, gan njjber asaala hesporoona. Peace be on Earth, and among all beings. | ||
Jo_jo Member Post Number: 122 Registered: 04-2003 |
The stuff posted on Rense, Prison Planet, etc is done to make money for the owners of the sites. Just like the authors who write about conspiracy theories for money. In terms of credibility, it would be wise to take all their motives into consideration. I’m not saying they don’t feel right about their causes, but they may also do it for recognition/fame, desire to be shocking, etc. After following those sites for years, I’ve found a lot of the stuff they’ve posted doesn’t pass the test of time. I think it’s best to remain flexible in thought and not become too invested with things lacking evidence that we can inspect. A better cover-up for the NeoCon’s is to mix some truth (allowing the attacks to occur) with some fantasy (they demolished the buildings). Most people accept all or nothing. By-the-way, steel weakens substantially at temperatures much lower than its melting point. | ||
Savio Senior Member Post Number: 548 Registered: 07-2000 |
Dear all Perhaps we can think of a scenario that both Billy and the theory of having planned bombs are correct. For example: The planes were actually the only reason for the destruction of the twin towers just as the answer provided by Billy, and yet, there were bombs placed within the planes (because they knew the attack plan beforehand) and detonated them when time was ripe. How about that? Savio | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 90 Registered: 07-2004 |
Norm, one of my first statements on this topic was to AGREE with Billy...there were no bombs...Thermite can work without exploding...so technically he's correct. Stop and think in this example here...two groups, Group one works on the bare minimal to operate, sometimes even working out of caves. They are known to be savage, ruthless hardened warriors. They are for the most part uneducated, barely organized, extremely scattered, low technology, are being constantly hunted and have no real homeland. Group two...Highly organized and structured, superpower , best technology available, billions spent on intelligence gathering, positions of highest authority over any obstacles, any needs are funded with absolute certainty instantly. This group has previously wanted to create a false flag attack on it's citizens before (Northwood) and blame the enemy so as to begin a war. They are manned with corporate connections that profit most if we are at war. Now take the event of 911. A precision attack that had a thousand things that could go wrong and stop the events unless key elements were controlled. Strategic securities had to be overcome on a massive scale on the most heavily guarded area of the US. Incredible coincidental luck of a identical scenario taking place at the same time( military exercises of hijacked planes being flown into buildings that happened on 911, yes documented), incredible flying feats of impossible odds that any pilot will tell you " the maneuvers of the pilots who flew the planes are not possible without a control towers assistance", Details that could ONLY be handled by a highly trained organized group that could produce the necessary info, personnel, funding and access to our countries highly guarded security structure. Now which group do you think could perform all the necessary actions that are required for this event to happen. You would be fooling yourself if you thought that the group without a home country could be lucky enough to pull it off. These are wicked people. They are in control of our country. And they will not let go of the power easily. We can expect something of a large format to engage our country before they are finally removed. And if our congress gets a democratic majority, get ready for the fireworks. The last ditch effort could be right around the corner. a friend in america Shawn | ||
Norm Member Post Number: 874 Registered: 02-2000 |
Jo_jo, Finally someone that understands where I'm standing. What will you guys say when Meier says there was no Themite? My Website | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 91 Registered: 07-2004 |
Hi Jo_jo, Myself, I wouldn't put the Rense site and Prison Planet in the same categories. Two different realities. Rense is not worth my time to sift through the various clutter. I find the information that I based my ideas on from a wide range of internet sites and from logical thought process's. Remember that the Plejaren suggest to Billy he should make money off the materials he produces so he can survive and carry on the mission. To be paid for a service doesn't render something as avoidable. Yes, steel does weaken at lower temperatures. Yet the buildings fell at a free fall speed. This means there was nothing to impede the upper floors from falling as fast as the lower floors. So the 'Official Story' of the floors pancaking and causing a domino effect is PHYSICALLY impossible. Yet that is their story and their sticking to it. One amazing reality of the collapse's was the fact that all the steel beams were removed under guard and sold as scrape to China and the beams all were the same length, the size that loads onto trucks and makes shipping easier. By the way, that's exactly how the demolition experts take down their buildings. No reason to make something harder for yourself, eh? This is just one of the facts you wouldn't need a website to prove it's existence. The video tapes of the buildings collapsing and a known aspect of physics, the speed at which things free fall, gives you one answer towards understanding what happened that day. If the fact that the Bush administration was FORCED into doing an investigation of 911, and spent less (11 million) than what was spent on Clinton's Whitewater investigation( 45 million), and Bush tried to place Kissinger as the lead investigator doesn't send up a warning flag, your living in the dark. A classic disinformation trick is the mixing of the truth and lies together, but that shouldn't deter you from finding the reality. When your mind doubts something, does that signal to you it's time to give up the inquiry? Well that's what the liars hope for. 911 is one of the biggest moments in man's history on earth. That says some of the most powerful forces are at work. Discovery of the truth could destroy those who are responsible and you can be sure they aren't going to let that happen. There will be no expense they won't incur to continue their dark agenda. And Norm, you may have run into a few to many false starts on researching 911, but if you continue to maintain your uneducated stance on 911, I will begin to think that your not really wanting the truth to come out. The information has been greatly purged of a lot of the crap to confuse people. You'll never get to the point where you'll get spoon fed the truth, but if you SEEK you shall FIND. a friend in america Shawn | ||
Der_beobachter Member Post Number: 53 Registered: 05-2003 |
Hello Figu Friends, This one is related to 9/11 Amazing video online worth a look. Please, watch this video (Flash video) before they delete it from the web. PENTAGON... NO PLANE AT ALL...??? Watch and judge it for yourself. http://www.pentagonstrike.co.uk/flash.htm#Main http://www.pentagonstrike.co.uk/flash.htm#Main Spread the link because the whole humankind deserves to know the truth. Der Beobachter Edelweiß _________________________________________________ "Lernen, ohne zu denken, ist eitel; denken, ohne zu lernen, ist gefährlich..." "Learning without thinking is vain. Thinking without learning is dangerous..." | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 92 Registered: 07-2004 |
Hi Der_Beobachter, This is a great example how much of the disinfo has been properly placed and the final conclusion is left to the viewer. We all should decide what to believe of this ordeal from our own accounts, but only after we exhaust the clues that are available. That was just one example, there are many more. a friend in america Shawn | ||
Mhurley Member Post Number: 134 Registered: 04-2003 |
For all the 911 Conspiracy enthusiasts: http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html?page=1&c=y Matt Hurley | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 93 Registered: 07-2004 |
Hi Matt, Sorry if I have to laugh at that link. That is the best example of the media being controlled by the corporate powers. It's an article that skirts the real hard issues and avoids answering the tough questions. Thanks for showing us the other extreme of disinfo. We can use this as an example what to watch out for. a friend in america Shawn | ||
Norm Member Post Number: 876 Registered: 02-2000 |
These evil geniuses the Neocons are so crafty as to be able to pull off 911 so they could invade Iraq, yet they are so dumb as to not to plant Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq to make themselves look like they were right. Go figure! My Website | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 96 Registered: 07-2004 |
EXACTLY!! Good point Norm. I couldn't of said it better myself. I would add: Stupidity, some. Blinding megalomania, lots. Over confidence, guaranteed. And if you ask me, it isn't over as far as them getting away with it. Some of the guilty will never be caught, but time will wear down the ones who are feeling the wickedness for their deeds. a friend in america Shawn | ||
Matt Member Post Number: 26 Registered: 04-2006 |
"Hi Billy, Were the Twin Towers brought to the ground with bombs that were placed inside the buildings before the planes hit. Then detonated after the planes hit?" Answer No, the planes were the reason for the destruction. I'm sorry, but I don't buy that. I watched all the 9/11 documentries, I heard all the mysterious happenings that went on inside the WTC buildings weeks before they came down. I also saw the film clips of many other buildings that were nearly in total fire, some burning for days which none had come down. I heard all the eyewitness accounts of what was being heard (series of explosions) just before they came down. I also heard from professionals in the 9/11 videos talking about all the nitty gritty technical bits for buildings to come down like that too. I even saw the WTC buildings come down at FREEFALL speed too. I believe that Billy must have been being sarcastic there or something when he said that the planes brought down the WTC buildings. | ||
Matt Member Post Number: 27 Registered: 04-2006 |
Michael Horn, what do you believe brought down the WTC buildings, and do you believe that billy was telling the truth there too? Has billy ever told you in private what brought down the WTC buildings, and if he has, what was it? | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 107 Registered: 07-2004 |
I think Billy is leaving it up to us to figure out what happened to the WTC. If we feel strongly enough about finding the truth, he knows even his answers will not stop those who are determined to know the complete story. I will not deter from my investigating due to Billy's remarks. This event happened to Americans, and it's up to us to expose the reality of it. a friend in america Shawn | ||
Norm Member Post Number: 886 Registered: 02-2000 |
Matt, You tell me why would Billy lie? I knew the conspiracy theories were going to start flying as soon as the planes hit those buildings. Disinfo is being spread my by the Shadow Gov't by spreading this elabate conspiracy to distract you from the truth that they just let it happen. They didn't need to go into blowing up buildings. My Website | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 108 Registered: 07-2004 |
Norm, it seems you'll be the advocate for the side of 'no bombs in the building' version, and thats ok. Norm, can you delivery any proof to back that up? Are you scouring the internet for the sources that will scientifically disprove what myself and others state regarding what collapsed the WTC buildings? The more we discuss this issue, the more reality will become clearer for all. One more thing, the method wasn't from bombs. Thermite or the altered version of it, Thermate, are the elements used, reported by the investigators. An explosion-like appearance may of transpired when the building went into a freefall collapse, caused by the sudden compression of the floors nearly simultaneously giving out from the quick melting chemical reactions of these ingredients. There were many accounts of explosions from firefighters, police and observers given, but the only solid physical evidence has been the data extracted by the groups searching for Thermite clues. a friend in america Shawn | ||
Dplotmach Member Post Number: 103 Registered: 09-2004 |
Revelation of john verse 18:9, and the writings before and after the verse is worth checking out, I think it might be a description of 9/11. Also I think I remember reading in the "Bible Code II" that New York was supposed to be attacked by a nuclear bomb. | ||
Jo_jo Member Post Number: 148 Registered: 04-2003 |
Norm, exactly, and then when people devote the rest of their lives chasing a myth, they get rightly labeled as nut jobs because they’re chasing something that didn’t happen. If instead they just pursued the simple fact that the administration had prior knowledge and let it happen, they’d have success, get convictions, and get the filthy bastards out of office. Stick to what is provable first. Isn’t that good enough? | ||
Jo_jo Member Post Number: 150 Registered: 04-2003 |
Shawn, your logic is inverted. In this society, the burden of proof resides with the accuser, not the defendant. And that’s a good thing, or we might have to spend all our time defending ourselves against unwarranted accusations. Whether anyone likes it or not, the “official” story for the collapse of the WTC buildings is the same as Billy’s: the planes. So, it’s not up to Norm or anyone disagreeing with the bomb/termite speculation to provide proof that bombs/thermite didn’t cause the collapse. That’s ass-backwards. If you listen to Bearden, the scalar weapons proponent, he says the buildings were brought down with scalar. Do we have to disprove his speculation too? I think Kiril makes some good points on the previous page about the buildings’ flawed design. And steel weakens substantially at temperatures well below its melting point. If you look at the videos available on youtube.com, you’ll see dust and debris falling to the ground at a rate faster than the floors of the building. So the buildings were not in complete free fall. They fell very fast, but not free fall. | ||
Scott Moderator Post Number: 821 Registered: 12-1999 |
Jo_Jo, The only word we have concerning the U.S. Government having prior knowledge comes from Billy at this time. I highly doubt the U.S. Government is going to come clean because Billy said so.....if that was the case, then maybe they would at least acknowledge the existence of ET life and the work Billy is doing...wouldn't you say? Perhaps we have more important things to worry about like North Korea and their "Missile testing program".... Scott | ||
Norm Member Post Number: 887 Registered: 02-2000 |
Shawn, I give up! You want to pick & choose what to believe, if Billy say something that you agree with then you believe him, but if he states something you don't agree with then you don't. All I can say is I trust Meier more than all these conspiracy theroists making money off of these theories. Plus the Shadow Gov't is always adding things to make it look so outrageous that no one will even believe the fact, that all that really happened was that they just let the attack happen. My Website | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 109 Registered: 07-2004 |
Jo_jo, What is needed is real evidence. The idea that they knew and let it happened is pretty clear by all the intel that crossed the desks of these neo-con pirates. They admitted that they took the Bin Laden info( before the attack) as not important (part of their plan) and no one pursued these admitted decisions they made as reasons to help remove them from office. That info isn't strong enough and extremely hard to make " provable" to get a investigation with momentum that could actually remove the guilty ones. Now when you so matter of fact state that we're, " rightly labeled as nut jobs ", and continue with, " because they're chasing something that didn't happen. " I take offense at this name calling and your idea that none of what we state didn't happen. These criminal actions with the buildings is very provable and you've obviously have not done one iota of research on this or you wouldn't write your baseless assertions. You do a great service for the guilty bastards and hamper the ones who are actually gathering the reality of the situation. Your style of attacking the messenger in your reply's is a known technique to defeat attempts at getting to the truth used by dis-information agents. Let's see some of your research dispelling the theory that Thermite wasn't what caused the collapses, and your research on what you think caused these actions a friend in america Shawn | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 110 Registered: 07-2004 |
Jo_jo research before you state something. The second plane hit the building on a corner and the majority of the fuel was immediately burned, outside of the building. This was the first building that fell. Hmmm? The first firefighters that reached the floors that were hit by the planes and suffered the most from the released jet fuel, reported that they could contain the fire with a mere two hoses. The fact that they could even survive in the " steel melting inferno ", is evidence that it wasn't an inferno. It's simple logic that the fuel would burn up extremely fast as it was dispersed into a form that wasn't able to maintain a steadily fed fire. The gas tanks were shredded and the fuel ignited immediately. This is not a method for melting steel, or even to substantially weaken it. Jumbo jets with full tanks have been crashed in tests to see what happens to the fuel. I've watched these many times and it's very clear the fuel burns extremely quick and what remains burning is the seating and other combustibles. Not a continuously burning inferno being fed by some steady stream of fuel. you wrote... " So, it’s not up to Norm or anyone disagreeing with the bomb/termite speculation to provide proof that bombs/thermite didn’t cause the collapse." No it's not. But if your going to say it wasn't, then explain away the evidence that is clearly available and backed by academic professions that are accredited and experienced in their fields they occupy. Your idea that you don't have to prove that there wasn't "bombs/thermite" when you write your posts is not explaining anything in this discussion. Do you even want to find the answers? The planes did it is not a response to what we are discussing. That's the governments answer, and we all know the government doesn't lie. HaHaHaHa! And the design of the building has been muddied as to the reality of it, as the government blocked the release of the true design from the actual builders so the real layout is not completely known. So to state the flaw response is not fully practical. And how did building 7 collapse. No plane hit it. A little debris from the other collapses hit it , but nothing that would cause it to fall into it's foot print. Your avoiding the facts and skirting around the logic with arguments that don't deal with the information that's now available. Yeah, let's just discuss building 7. What do you say? a friend in america Shawn | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 111 Registered: 07-2004 |
Norm, you should give up. a friend in america Shawn | ||
Jo_jo Member Post Number: 151 Registered: 04-2003 |
Scott, wouldn’t you allow that most – if not all – of the proponents of the bomb/thermite theory also believe the U.S. Government had prior knowledge? You’re right, Billy’s influence today is limited. I may have overstated the case. If people pursued the simple fact that the administration had prior knowledge and let it happen, they’d have a better chance at getting convictions and getting the filthy bastards out of office than if they tried to prove the government rigged the buildings with bombs. Kinda like what the government does when it goes after mobsters; they get them on easier to prove things like mail fraud or tax evasion. It doesn’t matter so much what you get them on, just get them in jail to stop their actions. But nearly five years have passed, and there seems little progress even in that regard. | ||
Matt Member Post Number: 28 Registered: 04-2006 |
Norm: "Matt, You tell me why would Billy lie? I knew the conspiracy theories were going to start flying as soon as the planes hit those buildings. Disinfo is being spread my by the Shadow Gov't by spreading this elabate conspiracy to distract you from the truth that they just let it happen. They didn't need to go into blowing up buildings." "Norm, exactly, and then when people devote the rest of their lives chasing a myth, they get rightly labeled as nut jobs because they’re chasing something that didn’t happen. If instead they just pursued the simple fact that the administration had prior knowledge and let it happen, they’d have success, get convictions, and get the filthy bastards out of office. Stick to what is provable first. Isn’t that good enough?" No offence to the person who asked billy that question, but I think that question was a DUMB question to ask billy because of how obvious from all the evidence provided (circumstancial and otherwise) that those buildings were brought down by demolition bombs, and is the reason why I believe that billy must have been being sarcastic or something by saying that the planes were responsible for bringing the buildings down. If billy wasn't being sarcastic in response to that question, then I can only conclude that billy is deliberately leaving it up to us to figure out what happened to the WTC as what Shawn just said. The proof to support that billy is deliberately letting us work out what happened over the 9/11 attacks is supported in this other question that someone else asked billy a while ago. "Hi Billy, shortly after the World Trade Centre attacks happened on 9/11 you said in the contact notes that the U.S. knew that Bin Laden was going to attack the World Trade Centre and that the U.S. deliberately let it happen. With the passing of time since saying that about comment about 9/11 in the contact notes Billy, has anything changed or since then have you become aware of any new information on the matter? Did Bin Laden alone carry out the 9/11 attacks or did the U.S. set the whole thing up or parts of it up? Answer Billy doesn’t have detailed information about the origin of the 9/11 attacks. However he has knowledge that President Bush has been informed in advance. Why is billy continue to stick from the same old story from 5 years ago that terrorists were responsible for 9/11?? We all know by now that the 9/11 attacks were a 'setup' and for billy to continue talking there like that proves that billy is deliberately holding back from telling us the truth of 9/11. I bet billy doesn't know the truth of what happened in 9/11. And as if billy needs to have detailed information about the origins of the 9/11 attacks to know that they were a 'setup'! I didn't, all i needed to see was WTC building coming down in CLASSIC demolition stlye for me to know it was a setup. Sorry, but when billy said the planes were responsible for bringing down the WTC buildings, I believe that he was either being sarcastic there or just more of the same old deliberate holding back on the part of billy of not telling us the truth surrounding the events of 9/11 again. I believe thats garbage that the planes brought down those buildings, and I believe that any people here who believe that the planes did bring down the buildings haven't worked out yet that billy is deliberately keeping quite on the issue and letting people work out for themselves what happened surrounding the events of 9/11. These people will believe anything that anyone tells them even when someone (billy) is plainly and obviously not telling them the truth about something. They have lost their ability to seek the truth for themselves, and only believe something is the truth when billy tells them its the truth. | ||
Matt Member Post Number: 29 Registered: 04-2006 |
Kingman: "Jo_jo, Now when you so matter of fact state that we're, " rightly labeled as nut jobs ", and continue with, " because they're chasing something that didn't happen. " I take offense at this name calling and your idea that none of what we state didn't happen. These criminal actions with the buildings is very provable and you've obviously have not done one iota of research on this or you wouldn't write your baseless assertions. You do a great service for the guilty bastards and hamper the ones who are actually gathering the reality of the situation. Your style of attacking the messenger in your reply's is a known technique to defeat attempts at getting to the truth used by dis-information agents." Well said Shawn, and I think that someone else should be "rightly labeled as nut jobs" and not us, because they are the ones who are excepting what billy says about something as being the truth, when he is plainly lying or holding back there for whatever reason that is, most likely to let us work the truth out for ourselves. | ||
Matt Member Post Number: 30 Registered: 04-2006 |
Correction, I just noticed i made a couple of typing errors in 2nd prior post to this one. It meant to read like this with the correction in capital letters - "I bet billy DOES (not doesn't) know the truth of what happened in 9/11. And as if billy needs to have detailed information about the origins of the 9/11 attacks to know that they were a 'setup'! I didn't, all i needed to see was WTC building NUMBER 7 (left no.7 out) coming down in classic demolition style for me to know 9/11 was a setup." | ||
Jo_jo Member Post Number: 152 Registered: 04-2003 |
Shawn, What is needed is real evidence… There’s a whole posse on this forum that might give you an argument on that. At least when I ask for their objective evidence of scalar. I have no problem with real evidence and agree the criminal actions with the buildings is very provable if you have it. Do you? I also agree that I’ve done no research on the case. Since that fateful day I’ve followed the “conspiracy theories” on dozens of web sites, viewed documentaries, listened to talk radio programs, and followed the mainstream news, all the while trying to keep an open mind. I don’t call that research. I call it attentively observing. What does your research consist of? And, yes, I consider what Billy says on the matter because of his track record. I don’t see how plausible deniability fits in. Billy lies to us so we search harder for the truth? The truth persists and lies fade away. If Billy is always lying when it doesn't fit the case, he's eventually going to fade away too. People give up on liers. That's not the plan of his mission. The knowledge he is passing on is going to persist for hundreds if not thousands of years. I base my assertions on all the information I've assimilated thus far along with my intelligence, reasoning and objectivity. How about you? I’m not attacking you, I’m attacking your logic. You have a long, tough, uphill battle ahead of you. In a court of law, which is where you’ll try your case I presume, the burden of proof is on you, not the defendant. Good luck. I wish you the best. | ||
Michael_d Member Post Number: 118 Registered: 03-2003 |
Hi Billy, i,ve been studying your teachings for over two years now, but some things is still unclear to me; Whaty is it with the bible code? It has predicted very many things from the past to the future, and i cant see the connection by your presentation of the ancient earth history and the bible code. Do you just simply call this code silly? Thanks in Advance, Howard. Answer The Bible is a book of lies. It's a constructed chronicle in order to provide a history for a group of people. The bible code is purely fictional, and if there may appear some matches it is simply some form of providence (Fuegung in German). | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 112 Registered: 07-2004 |
Jo_jo, how about using your logic on building 7. Just answer how could it fall. No plane hit it. No major fires. The building owner even proclaimed on PBS that they "pulled it", a term that means to level a building with a controlled demolition. Someone would have to be a completely uneducated being to not realize that building 7 was brought down by previously placed elements on it's supporting structure. Fact: it takes close to two weeks to be able to prepare that size building for a controlled demolition. Fact: No impact from any plane. Fact: No major steel melting fires. Fact: Firefighters were told to clear out the building before it came down. So if you could explain what everyone saw on national tv during 911, that doesn't need any other corroborating internet info to be clearly obvious, that building 7 was purposely destroyed by people who had the ability to do it. Please, just answer the building 7 question. a friend in america Shawn | ||
Matt Member Post Number: 31 Registered: 04-2006 |
Norm: "Plus the Shadow Gov't is always adding things to make it look so outrageous that no one will even believe the fact, that all that really happened was that they just let the attack happen." WTC building 7 plainly and obviously came down in CLASSIC demolition style formation. It came down by demolition charges - period! That means that building 7 had to have been wired up and fitted out with demolition charges for it to come down like that, which must have taken WEEKS for some demolition team to setup and do. WTC building number 7 is also not a public building but a security governmental building, requiring some sort of special access for people to get into. Norm, if we are to believe what you say there is the truth of what actually happened surrounding the 9/11 attacks, which is that it was all done by terrorists alone!, then please explain to us how the terrorists were able to accomplished this unbelievable feat of wiring up and rigging out WTC building number 7 with demolition charges for it to come down in complete secrecy??? Even phantom terrorists wouldn't be able to accomplish that! I find it hard to believe that there are people at this forum who still believe that the WTC attacks were the result of terrorists attacks and not the result of a U.S. government setup - inside job! | ||
Matt Member Post Number: 32 Registered: 04-2006 |
Norm, the reason why i feel you that still believe that the 9/11 attacks were solely the result of terrorists attacks, is because you won't believe it unless billy says that is what happened. But billy for some unknown reason has chosen to give people the run around on the truth of 9/11 and to let them work out the truth of what happened there for themselves. This is why I believe that you still can't see through to the truth for yourself that 9/11 was an inside job, when most others here believe or know that 9/11 was the result of an inside job and that there were no terrorists involved at all, because you'll only believe it if billy tells you its true. Do you really need billy to tell you that 9/11 was an inside job or can't you work it out for yourself? | ||
Hector Member Post Number: 76 Registered: 04-2006 |
If the same spirit form was common to Jmmanuel and Billy,its knowledge and wisdom was too.The existing Kodex that has been introduced in some of Billy`s writings shoud be present also in Talmud Jmmanuel(Later the Bible). But due to false teachings,bad translations,open manipulation,maybe just 10% of the original Jmmanuel teachings,ideas and contents are present in the bible. The Kodex,as i understand it,is just a rethorical,literature means to awake neutral positive spiritual impulses in you. It should never be used to predict o prophesize any event.If such events happened that was pure coincidence/providence. Never try to find correlation between the Bible and Billys teachings,because the former was completely transformed.If you want to predict events,use Kabbalah,and no-one guarantees you to be successful. I agree with Billy that the bible is a book of lies,as well as Koran and many more.These books instill fear,anger,guilt in the people when their goal should be HELP those people,or be taken as a spiritual guide. Hector, You are mixing things up here in your statements. The Kodex has nothing to do with Billy's writings German or otherwise. The Kodex was drawn up as an agreement between the the various Vegan and Lyrian Spirit forms to make amends for damages/false teachings etc. which were introduced to the earth human after their arrival approx. 389,000 years ago. This Kodex is no longer in effect as of a few years ago. The code which I believe you are referring to only exists within certain books written by Billy, which includes the Talmud of Jmmanuel, and only is triggered when speaking/reading the German phrases and sentences. I don't know if it is accurate to say the Bible originated from the Talmud alone when you consider the writings of Enoch etc... I will let this post stand within this area, but in the future please post in the correct area. Thank you Scott-Moderator | ||
Michael Member Post Number: 508 Registered: 10-2000 |
My own opinion is, and was from the first moment that I observed it, that I was watching a controlled demolition of the Twin Towers. I concur that the statement by Larry Silverstein regarding the "pulling" of building number seven is further evidence of it. I also think that Meier's statement that Al-Qaeda and Bin Laden being behind the action is not contradictory since he also said that certain parties in the U.S. government knew about and allowed it. I think that they also facilitated it and were complicit in various ways to assure the success of the plot, i.e. the demolitions and having all the planes stand down, etc. And of course I agree that Meier is encouraging us to think it through ourselves. Do notice the distinction, that the prophetic information has been unerringly accurate, foretelling certain specific things. When it comes to after the fact items, we are more on our own in figuring them out. Now, for a really bad time, be sure to visit this den of vipers (where I have a limited engagement as a snake charmer): http://theparacast.com/smf/index.php?topic=16.0 Michael Horn | ||
Jo_jo Member Post Number: 153 Registered: 04-2003 |
Shawn, WTC Building 7 represents an anomaly. I have previously heard all the information you summarized. It’s pretty clear the WTC footprint was so compromised by the Twin Towers falling that Building 7 was a casualty for all intents and purposes. There was no way it could ever be economically salvaged. So if Silverstein “pulled” the building, did he just do the inevitable? If he did, why did he decide so soon? Wouldn’t it be dangerous to leave a compromised building of that height standing any longer than necessary if it would just have to come down anyway? Just my rationalizing. Now, you may be perfectly right that it would be impossible to place demolition charges in the building so soon after the towers fell. Where would the explosive charges come from? How could they get them into downtown NYC amid all the chaos that day? I see your point. When it comes to unsolvable problems there are two things I try to keep in mind: things aren’t always as they appear, and it’s usually not just one cause. If it were, the source would be easily identified and the problem corrected. Let’s look closely at the actual Q&A on this topic. Q: Were the TWIN TOWERS brought to the ground with bombs that were placed inside the buildings before the planes hit then detonated after the planes hit? A: No, the planes were the reason for the destruction. Anyone that’s been around this forum asking Billy questions knows one thing: Billy maybe answers the question that was asked. He does not read minds, and he certainly does not answer the question that was not asked. He was not asked what brought down BUILDING 7. He was not asked if Larry Silverstein had the building demolished and if explosives had been previously placed in it. For all we know (my speculation) bringing down #7 could have been a secondary objective that day with controlled demolition as a backup plan. | ||
Norm Member Post Number: 888 Registered: 02-2000 |
If Billy didn't know he would say so & has many times about other things! My Website | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 113 Registered: 07-2004 |
Jo_jo, I am not saying....BOMBS....Thermite, which is an incendiary element. So when you say... " Let's look closely at the actual Q&A on this topic. Q: Were the TWIN TOWERS brought to the ground with bombs that were placed inside the buildings before the planes hit then detonated after the planes hit? You obviously AREN'T looking at the question closely, you don't really need to, do you....YOU LOSE! Thermite Thermite Thermite Thermite Thermite Thermite!!!! You are not looking closely at this topic, you have no desire for the rest of the forum to know that hard evidence exists that CLEARLY....repeat, CLEARLY shows that the whole official 911 report is not the real story. You are spewing a prepared agenda. Let me tell you how you sound right now... sssssshhhhhh.... ( you are part of the problem.) I will not backdown with the...FACTS that have been recovered and continue to...ALWAYS point to something other than, lowly cave dwelling freedom fighters that couldn't even fly a cessna trainer let alone a 757. You are now one giant sore thumb that is sticking straight up and has nowhere to hide. You have been outed! a friend in america Shawn | ||
Matt Member Post Number: 33 Registered: 04-2006 |
Jo_jo: "WTC Building 7 represents an anomaly. I have previously heard all the information you summarized. It’s pretty clear the WTC footprint was so compromised by the Twin Towers falling that Building 7 was a casualty for all intents and purposes. There was no way it could ever be economically salvaged. So if Silverstein “pulled” the building, did he just do the inevitable? If he did, why did he decide so soon? Wouldn’t it be dangerous to leave a compromised building of that height standing any longer than necessary if it would just have to come down anyway? Just my rationalizing." Jo_jo, I think your just being silly now suggesting that the U.S. wired up and fitted out WTC building 7 with demolition charges in less then an hours time. Sorry, but thats just a DUMB statement. Michael: "I also think that Meier's statement that Al-Qaeda and Bin Laden being behind the action is not contradictory since he also said that certain parties in the U.S. government knew about and allowed it." How could terrorists have highjacked a military plane?? But the pictures of the plane(s) in the videos clearly show that they were NOT commercial passenger planes? The plane had a perculiar bulge or compartment fitted under its belly. The plane also had some sensor that exploded the planes fuel tanks when it was a couple of metres away from the building - this was clearly seen from every diferrent camera footage of the plane impacting the building?? Even eyewitnesses their stated that "that was no commercial plane that hit the tower!" This factor has to rule out that there were not any terrorists aboard those planes that hit the towers. | ||
Jo_jo Member Post Number: 157 Registered: 04-2003 |
Shawn, I think you missed my point. The Q&A I posted to examine was the EXACT phrasing Norm used in his original question, and Billy’s reply. http://forum.figu.org/us/messages/12/6175.html?1150342885 Norm said bombs. I never said or implied you did. What’s with the personal attacks? Such defensiveness shows a lack of objectivity, and objectivity is a necessary ingredient of the truth. | ||
Jo_jo Member Post Number: 158 Registered: 04-2003 |
Matt, Not so fast. You failed to include the rest of my paragraph in your cut & paste. If you weren't so anxious to attack, you might have read it. Now, you may be perfectly right that it would be impossible to place demolition charges in the building so soon after the towers fell. Where would the explosive charges come from? How could they get them into downtown NYC amid all the chaos that day? I see your point. Egg on the face? | ||
Matt Member Post Number: 34 Registered: 04-2006 |
Jo_jo: "Egg on the face?" nope no egg on my face! Shawn is right, you aren't reading correctly what you are writing as well as what others are writing too. What you are suggesting there makes no sense at all and is also impossible for a team of demolition people to do within an hour or two time. It takes at least a WEEK or TWO time to fit out a building with demolition charges. | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 114 Registered: 07-2004 |
Hi Norm, Here's what Billy wrote before explaining some aspects of the warmongering and such after 911.... "As I know out of my own sad experience, it is also not permitted in Switzerland to express and spread opinion openly and freely, not even then, when it is in keeping with the actual truth. Is this directive not obeyed, a judicial sequel follows and loss is inevitable, because the wrong and unjust is looked upon as right and even as the actual truth, as I had to experience now and then in my life. And all this, although Switzerland calls herself a constitutional state and claims to secure freedom of opinion as well as true freedom, which at least ridicules every right however, when certain jurisdictions pass judgment to the disadvantage of truth and its representatives and acquits the guilty.?The danger therefore lies in that I am not permitted to speak the truth openly and freely in its entirety, in fact I have to cover up many things or circumscribe them with inadequate words if I don't want to let renewed judicial encounter distress me and my scarce financial means, or let my life be threatened." We can adapt this rightly to any event where such powerful forces are at play, and Billy has an obligation to protect others around him and of course the mission. a friend in america Shawn | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 115 Registered: 07-2004 |
Jo_jo, I disagreed with the answer Billy gave from Norm's first post and clarified with a statement that Thermite was the reason for the collapses. I've been repeating Thermite over and over. If you want to discuss what I post...discuss what I post. Now can you explain what you mean by building 7 being compromised...that is not in any of the research that has been widely exposed regarding B7. Where is this statement found? A few small fires and several broken windows were the reality witnessed by police, firemen and local observers and captured on video's. a friend in america Shawn | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 116 Registered: 07-2004 |
Here's an alternative to our different points of what we believe happened to the Twin Towers (not B7). If we take Billy at his word that planes brought it down, and we couple that with some of the captured videos that show a bright light/explosion right before impact and place a large source of Thermite ON THE PLANE, we solve some of the challenges of this discussion. The Thermite, now ignited and showering everything in its path, could destroy enough metal supports, helping in the collapse. Thermite once ignited cannot be stopped until it runs out of its fuel, quickly melting any metal like butter. While there are still some questions that need to be answer, it is an alternative. Still involves the same criminals though. a friend in america Shawn | ||
Jo_jo Member Post Number: 159 Registered: 04-2003 |
Shawn, The result of the attacks on the Twin Towers is that all seven WTC buildings are gone. Not just buildings 1, 2 & 7, but 3, 4, 5 & 6 as well. 3, 4, 5 & 6 were demolished (controlled demolition). They were not considered salvageable. Several surrounding buildings were also damaged. I'm presuming Building 7 would have suffered a similar fate. From the PBS documentary you earlier referenced: Pelted by debris when the North Tower collapsed, 7 burned until late afternoon, allowing occupants to evacuate to safety. youtube.com carries several video clips showing Building 7 on fire. I’ll let the viewer decide for himself the extent of Building 7’s damage. A seemingly objective website on the Twin Towers collapse (not WTC 7) is one by The University of Sydney (Australia) Civil Engineering Department (World Trade Center – Some Engineering Aspects). http://www.civil.usyd.edu.au/wtc.shtml For people that are more visual, they include a photo showing the South Tower skewing right before its collapse. I’m not saying its evidence for or against controlled demolition. It’s just another piece of data. | ||
Jo_jo Member Post Number: 160 Registered: 04-2003 |
Matt, There you go again. The fingers on the keyboard are faster than the synapses in the brain. Please read my post# 153 and tell all the world AGAIN how I thought it plausible to wire up WTC7 for demolition the day of the Twin Towers collapse. I DIDN’T SAY THAT. It was a series of rhetorical questions I used to agree with Shawn’s premise that IT DOESN’T SEEM PLAUSIBLE. That’s why I consider WTC7 an anomaly. Better now? So was it scrambled, over easy or sunny-side up? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Even if there do exist groups and agencies etc. on this planet who are working towards dark and criminal goals, you cannot take all of those countless conspiracy claims as truth. Many people show more imagination than is good for their psyche, and they see something where there is nothing, or something else. - Christian Frehner - 4/18/2006 | ||
Jo_jo Member Post Number: 161 Registered: 04-2003 |
Shawn, I don’t see how it ever follows that “we can adapt this rightly to any event where such powerful forces are at play…” It may conveniently follow to adapt that reasoning to discount what Billy says on sensitive topics whenever he disagrees with someone’s beliefs. Billy often says: 1.) No 2.) I don’t know 3.) Billy doesn’t know (through Christian) 4.) I am not allowed to say 5.) We don’t get into politics 6.) Etc. 7.) Etc. Billy chose to say “The planes were the reason for the destruction.” He could have said much less. He has before. He didn’t need to lie. Is he that faulty of a human being that he has to lie when there are clearly other options? My personal opinion is that people will search harder for the truth when Billy says I don't know. In some of these cases he may be saying search for yourself. It gives people a glimmer of hope that they can or will find what they are searching for. One can hardly be certain if or when Billy is ever lying. | ||
Norm Member Post Number: 889 Registered: 02-2000 |
Shawn, Why don't you ask Billy if Thermite was used? I bet its a no! Please don't tell me everytime Billy states something that you disagree with it will be Switerlands censorship laws preventing him from agreeing with your views. My Website | ||
Jo_jo Member Post Number: 163 Registered: 04-2003 |
Shawn, Regarding your post# 116 suggesting thermite on the planes, I agree that would solve some of the challenges of this discussion. Whether it's actually the case, I wouldn't know. | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 117 Registered: 07-2004 |
Norm, I only quoted Billy's actual statement regarding an aspect that does relate to 911. He makes this statement for more than just censorship laws. I'm sure your familiar with all the attempts on his life. Whoever is responsible is surely very powerful and extremely deadly. Billy would be doing a disservice to all of us if he needlessly puts himself at an unnecessarily high risk. I am under the assumption Billy is quite aware of most if not all aspects of 911. It's been said several times on this form that it's not that important to know all the different dirty deeds from that day, and I do agree with this. Our ability to sense the general idea that something with the whole event is very wrong, and that's enough to realize we now need to remove these elements and begin our long path back to government by the people, for the people. I really am trying to get a better sense of each of us in relation to what we are able to grasp as the most plausible realities. I am a little wary of those who are willing to discredit to much of what is obviously an inside job. Hell, even some of the supposed terrorists were trained by us and were part of the Mahujadeen freedom fighters trained to upset the Russian forces in Afghanistan. And we all agree that Bush is a terrorist in actions. So when Billy said they were brought down by the terrorists, I can't deny that. Bluntly, stripped down to the best piece of evidence I can prove, that one simple publicly known video that shows B7 in it's classic footprint collapse, I can say with absolutely zero doubt, the building had been set up prior to 911, and it being a secure government building, incriminates elements within our government that are incredibly evil. If you have a problem with this one FACT, I am not certain of your abilities to solve basic sleuthing. There is no way that building 7 could of been prepared after the Towers came down...impossible and beyond reason. That is the base I stand on and nobody is going to give me an alternative to this realization I protect as my one solid undeniable fact. Because there are no other alternatives. Period. a friend in america Shawn | ||
Tony Member Post Number: 33 Registered: 01-2006 |
Michael Horn said that his opinion of what he believed had brought down the WTC buildings was not the planes, but controlled demolition. So even Michael's opinion is against what billy said had brought down the buildings. Michael also forgot to mention wether or not billy had told him in private what was responsible for bringing down the buildings. | ||
Christian Moderator Post Number: 112 Registered: 02-2000 |
Of course Billy doesn't lie when he is answering forum questions. You see, if there is a question that may be simply answered by a "yes" or "no", why should there be many sentences? This has nothing to do with "will I be sued if I answer this question in details". It's up to the person who is asking to think about the question before it is published. Regarding WTC and its destruction it was claimed that the planes were not involved or not responsible for the destruction of the twin towers. Billy's answer was that the planes caused the destruction. If Billy would really fear further attempts on his life he would not have stated that the U.S. government was informed about the attack prior to the event. In my opinion this should be reason enough to investigate into this matter, but of course this is the task of the citizens of the USA, and not of us here in Switzerland. After all, if the population of a country is electing a criminal as its president, even if this has happened through manipulation during the elections, the same population is responsible to correct their mistake and to chase unsuitable persons from their offices. This is my opinion, written with a few words, but leading to many strings of thought. Christian | ||
Jo_jo Member Post Number: 165 Registered: 04-2003 |
Tony, Are you trying to interrupt Michael’s limited engagement as a snake charmer at: http://theparacast.com/smf/index.php?topic=16.0 (That’s the funniest thing I’ve heard all week.) This doesn’t directly address your request, and I won’t try to speak for Michael, but here is something related he posted in his June 25th email newsletter: I want to update you on a few things regarding my recent visit with Billy Meier and his answers to several questions that I've received from list members like you. Regarding 9/11 and if the U.S. government itself orchestrated the attacks, his answer was no, but that at the highest levels they definitely knew about, and allowed, it to proceed, in order to justify beginning a series of wars that were long planned. | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 118 Registered: 07-2004 |
Jo_jo, in post #159, you have also noticed that the linked website doesn't discuss WTC7. I would think after nearly 5 years this expert would find the time to review the results of WTC7's collapse, seeing how he sets himself up as an authority on unique building failure. It's always the same, WTC7 is the elephant in the room. WTC7 is the achilles heel of the perpetrators. And it makes sense....The plane that was shot down (yes, shot down) would of been the one that was planned for WTC7, hiding the control center evidence it contained. also... this quote you added " From the PBS documentary you earlier referenced: Pelted by debris when the North Tower collapsed, 7 burned until late afternoon, allowing occupants to evacuate to safety. " All buildings in the area were evacuated early on...who were these people that were still in WTC7 after the collapses and subsequent fires? All buildings were cleared of people, especially when the South Tower fell, which was first. Here they are talking about the North Tower and the fires starting from the pelting. It's always so hard for them to keep their story straight. Here's another little slip... October 24, 2002 Swiss Re, Silverstein Crank Out Opposing WTC Engineering Studies World Trade Center owner Larry Silverstein and lead WTC insurer Swiss Re have released competing engineering studies detailing how and why the twin towers fell following the Sept. 11 bombings. GlogeSt.com Bombings? Hmmmm...Silverstein slips again! That's hardly evidence, but the lie is hard to maintain. a friend in america Shawn | ||
Norm Member Post Number: 890 Registered: 02-2000 |
Shawn, Even if Billy came foward & said he agreed with me. You would still believe yourself. So whats the point of this discussion. I'm sticking with Billy on this. My Website | ||
Norm Member Post Number: 891 Registered: 02-2000 |
"I really am trying to get a better sense of each of us in relation to what we are able to grasp as the most plausible realities. I am a little wary of those who are willing to discredit to much of what is obviously an inside job." So now if we don't agree with you. We are insiders & disinformation agents  . Wow how these accusations are thrown around a lot in here. And I'm the one agreeing with Billy.My Website | ||
Tony Member Post Number: 34 Registered: 01-2006 |
This doesn’t directly address your request, and I won’t try to speak for Michael, but here is something related he posted in his June 25th email newsletter: "I want to update you on a few things regarding my recent visit with Billy Meier and his answers to several questions that I've received from list members like you. Regarding 9/11 and if the U.S. government itself orchestrated the attacks, his answer was no, but that at the highest levels they definitely knew about, and allowed, it to proceed, in order to justify beginning a series of wars that were long planned." This statement of billy simply doesn't stack up with all the events of what happened surrounding the 9/11 attacks. If we are to believe that it was all the work of terrorists, then we are to believe that terrorists demolished (controlled demolition) WTC building 7 ?? Impossible! So how could what billy said there above be the underlying truth of what really happened concerning the 9/11 attacks?? There definitely was some sort of a government set up involved of the 9/11 attacks, and couldn't possibly be just a case of the U.S. government "simply knowing about it and just letting it happen"! | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 119 Registered: 07-2004 |
Norm, I forgive you for putting words in my mouth. By all means, please maintain what you feel is important to you. My intentions are to at least allow others to ponder different views of the 911 challenge. a friend in america Shawn | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 120 Registered: 07-2004 |
Christian, Even though I agree with your statement, it's still known that Billy is a master at language skills, and can understand others in a extreme far reaching way giving him the insight to know what is needed for a truthful, yet sometimes broad, or superficial answer. Example: His answer that planes caused the Twin Towers to collapse is correct. Yes, I do believe it also. But they were just a part of the reason. If the planes had missed, the buildings would not of been destroyed. I am also looking into my recent idea that the planes carried Thermite in an abundance, and were able to dissolve the steel supports enough to begin a collapse. a friend in america Shawn | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 121 Registered: 07-2004 |
Jo_jo I think maybe if we asked Billy if it was the shadow government that did the majority of the 911 activities we would get a different answer. a friend in america Shawn | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 122 Registered: 07-2004 |
Norm, We're going to give you the rest of the day off. Relax and enjoy! Realize that I am hungry for more information and your starving me. I need dinner, not a snack.  a friend in america Shawn | ||
Michael Member Post Number: 514 Registered: 10-2000 |
This is an interesting article that, if correct, may have some interesting implications: http://www.viewzone.com/911revisited.html I don't want to add to any confusion but I have thought about a couple of things, especially in light of Christian's comments above. In the Henoch Prophecies (http://www.theyfly.com/prophecies/prophecies.htm) it is said that terrorists will destroy the WTC. It didn't say that the terrorists would be Islamic, or of any specific origin. Then Billy said that the planes destroyed the buildings. Now we've heard about thermite and the info in the (above) article about the planes. There's also the obvious info about building 7, what's known about the standing down of the defensive air forces, and, not to be overlooked, the despicable criminal(s) we in this country have allowed to ascend to power, etc. As Christian said, "This is my opinion, written with a few words, but leading to many strings of thought." So, let's keep on thinking. Michael Horn | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 123 Registered: 07-2004 |
Very interesting information Michael. Most of it can be added as more of the ponderables. I have my idea that the remote controls were used due to the extreme maneuvering, as well as that the individuals blamed for hijacking the planes couldn't even fly a model airplane. The article refers to 757's and 767's, and the fact they're equipped with the remote control abilities, but I believe that the planes were switched out with similar looking jets that were prepared for the deeds each was specified for. Maybe two filled with thermite for a added emphasis for collapsing the buildings. With the transponders turned off and no control tower assistance, the odds unskilled non-pilots could even find their way back to New York, let alone the Twin Towers, is quad-zillions to none. Every aspect of the official story is either impossible or unprovable. And all the real evidence that this administration has destroyed or kept off limits only fuels the suspicions. They spent a mere 11 million on the investigation for 911 and over 45 million on Clintons Whitewater investigation. Yet I have one other belief I am working on. We are actually dealing with two separate powerful groups that seem to be trying to undermine each other for the top power spot. The neo-cons here used the attack by the global power elite on the Towers as a sought after tool for their plans. There is most likely a common cross-over element that voices what is likely to happen before each event for the benefit of each group. The 911 cover-up is the biggest web of deceit ever forced on our future. It has a potential to forever teach us what we need to prevent, or it could reset the planet with catastrophic de-population wars, or the worst, they take over completely and we all happily become their obeying slaves for their tyranny. We have an election in November for Congressional seats that can easily be described as epically critical. If the Republicans retain control, Bush will never be brought to answer his deeds. Democrats are implicated in the collusion of 911, but we need them to break the stranglehold on our system. a friend in america Shawn | ||
Norm Member Post Number: 893 Registered: 02-2000 |
You can forget about both parties. We need a third, forth & fifth party. I voted for Perot twice & Nader once. I had to vote for Kerry just to get rid of Bush, otherwise I would never vote Replicrats when there's another option. My Website | ||
Tony Member Post Number: 37 Registered: 01-2006 |
Michael: "In the Henoch Prophecies (http://www.theyfly.com/prophecies/prophecies.htm) it is said that terrorists will destroy the WTC. It didn't say that the terrorists would be Islamic, or of any specific origin." The FBI just came out and said that they had no evidence linking Bin Laden or Al Qaida to the 911 attacks. You can hear it in this 10 megs clip. Professor James Fetzer on FOX News: Co-Chair of Scholars for 9/11 Truth James Fetzer made it onto the Fox News channel Hannity and Colmes show, and out talked the anchors, including Oliver North. http://www.question911.com/linkout.php?filename=Professor%20James%20Fetzer%20on%20Fox%20News%2020060606.wmv | ||
Norm Member Post Number: 894 Registered: 02-2000 |
I think when Billy says it wasn't Islam he means that Bin Laden is not a true Muslim. He is preaching a radical version of Islam not the true Islam. And you hear that all the time when they interview Islamic Scholars. My Website | ||
Matt Member Post Number: 48 Registered: 04-2006 |
This question was just answered by Billy - Hi Billy, in a recent answer to someone's question about 9/11, you said that the World Trade Centre buildings were brought down by the planes. My question is, what brought down World Trade Centre building number 7, was it fire or was it demolition charges? Answer Billy does not know about Building number 7, but he said that the main towers were indeed hit by the airplanes and crashed because of the fire. And there were explosives (was explosive?) in the planes. --------------------------------------------- Norm, this means that you were incorrect in the debate you've been having here with Shawn, Tony and me, about how explosives were not responsible for bringing down the WTC buildings, and saying how you believe that it was the planes collided with the WTC towers alone (no bombs) which were solely responsible for bringing down the WTC buildings. --------------------------------------- Norms question to Billy a couple of months ago - "Hi Billy, Were the Twin Towers brought to the ground with bombs that were placed inside the buildings before the planes hit. Then detonated after the planes hit?" Answer No, the planes were the reason for the destruction. ----------------------------------- Norm, do you still believe now that the only thing the U.S. did that was wrong in the 911 attacks, was to just let it happen? Do you still believe that? Norm, if there were explosives installed on those 2 planes, then theres your answer/proof that what the U.S. DID was to setup the 9/11 attacks, and never was it a case of the U.S. just merely letting the 911 attacks happen. I believe that there were no Islamic terrorists involved or on board those two planes either. | ||
Norm Member Post Number: 911 Registered: 02-2000 |
Matt, Where's the Thermite????????? He didn't say bombs in the plane! He said explosives which could mean the planes exploded on impact. "there were explosives (was explosive?) in the planes." Slightly different meanings must be a translation error! Was explosive means they blew up on impact! When he says there were bombs on the planes put there by Bush I will believe. Which he could have said when I asked if there were bombs/thermite in the building like you were saying. My Website | ||
Matt Member Post Number: 50 Registered: 04-2006 |
errg, Norm, I don't know how I missed reading that (was explosive?) bit in billy's reply to that question, because with that there, it kind of puts a question mark over what billy means by 'explosives'. And there were explosives (was explosive?) in the planes. Billy could be referring to the jet fuel being the explosive device in the planes, or he could be referring to an explosive device (the one I jumped to the conclusion of thinking he only meant) being in the planes designed to bring down the buildings - thermite, like Shawn's been talking about. | ||
Scott Moderator Post Number: 832 Registered: 12-1999 |
How about "was explosive" meaning past tense, because the event has now transpired and the explosive no longer exist because it has been used.?? | ||
Norm Member Post Number: 913 Registered: 02-2000 |
I asked Christian to come here & clairify what was meant. My Website | ||
Psycloud Member Post Number: 12 Registered: 06-2006 |
Hi All I have though before that what billy meier says about 911 may be based on what the plejarens have picked up themselves about what happen, how do we know that they were not decieved themselves, I know they aren't infallable, and they are capable of making mistakes, but what are the chances? How close has billy looked at the information, and if he has, what can he tell us about some of these specific details that seemed to tell us logically that it was not some radical islams, and seem to point to someone within the system. But then again those people could have been in the system as so called spies, and may have been white as to be unrecognized as being radical islams, and maybe they had planned such things as explosives inside building before their hijackings. I still have a hard time dealing with this issue in my mind. Great video tony I am truthful to the extend at which I know the truth. | ||
Matt Member Post Number: 51 Registered: 04-2006 |
Norm, i didn't need you to tell me that I misread billy's comment before. Your post there was not posted yet when I had posted my prior post to this one admitting that I had misread billys statement. When I posted that post in, for some reason that post did not go through and get posted at the same time along with your post in that round of posts that were waiting for clearence by mods. Norm, have you watched any of those 911 conspiracy video's yet, where you hear from many expert engineers and demolishes talk about the callapse of the towers and ALL saying how they believe that it was IMPOSSIBLE for them 2 towers to fall like that from getting hit by the planes?? If it was ONLY one building, you could pass it off as being some sort fluke that the building came down. Experts say, well you could say that the plane must of freakishly hit some of weak spot (which they say don't exist) which was responsible for bringing the building down, but THIS happened to TWO buildings, and they BOTH came down absolutely identicle to each other!! Based on this many engineer and demolition experts say that the callapse of the buildings defys pyshics and makes absolutely no sense at all to them why they BOTH came down IDENTICLE to each other. They are at a loss to explain it. | ||
Cpl Member Post Number: 150 Registered: 08-2004 |
If it was planes or exploding planes that caused the collapse then how did this cause all the support columns to collapse at the same time when the plane of one tower flew in close to one corner only. That tower should have collapsed starting with the closest column to the plane if the plane caused the collapse; but the closest column didn't collapse first, or soon after. All the cloumns collapsed at exactly the same time, and some time after impact and plane explosion. How is this unifomity of collapse explained -- or possible -- from a decentralized explosion? | ||
Christian Moderator Post Number: 113 Registered: 02-2000 |
Hi all, Since Billy said (upon my question regarding explosives) that there were indeed explosives in those planes (according to what Ptaah had told him), and since I didn't ask about the "how" and "what for", I cannot give you more details. If you want to have more information you have the possibility to ask specific questions in the "Ask Billy" section. Best regards, Christian | ||
Norm Member Post Number: 918 Registered: 02-2000 |
Well I guess that solves it then. There was no Thermite. The bombs were on the planes! Who put them there is the next question. Matt, My question was posted before yours read the time. & please don't tell me how to post! My Website | ||
Cpl Member Post Number: 152 Registered: 08-2004 |
Thanks, Christian. My question to Billy has been asked this round, so maybe next round. cpl | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 127 Registered: 07-2004 |
Not so Norm. "Well I guess that solves it then. There was no Thermite." I am amazed at your single handed attempt to delete Thermite from the possible theories for collapse of the Towers. I'll leave your reasons for this to yourself. If you were to do your own examinations of the many professional findings that are very easily located, instead of your spoon fed results (Billy's time is for the mission) that are not able to produce a complete picture of why the Towers collapsed, logic will compel you to find the other elements that truly sealed the fate of these buildings. To remove the groups responsible for these actions, we need a consensus of the unbelieving, head in the sand public, to understand the truth that they desperately don't want to hear. The only way to do this is to glaringly expose them to the minutiae of all the steps involved in the events. One fact wrong, and you lose some. Two facts wrong, lose more. Lose enough and you lose the balance needed. These scum who are the enemy of all humanity, need the story to come out just wrong enough to continue with their plans. They count on the mudding effect of individuals who are able to each add a small "oops!" fact, that turns out false, or incomplete, to keep the balance in their favor. The event of 911 was a high tech cascade of precision, only achievable with powerfully placed individuals, and well organized groups and access to the heart of US defenses at home. Only the truth will stop them. Only the truth stoppers can stop us. So there's different jobs for each of us as we unravel what is the real truth. When a strong piece of evidence comes into play, we can be sure to find the reality shifters at work. Stopping their game is as important as the facts they try and contort. I won't allow any quick, side-stepping attempt at de-qualifying Thermite/Thermate. The stakes my friend are to great for such simplicity. A strongly backed, well researched conclusion for your assertions, not the partial, 'cause Billy said so', single sentence reply, is the better formula. The masses that don't want to know will NEVER BELIEVE a ONE ARMED FARMERS response from an ET. *****WE ALL TALK ABOUT THIS CHALLENGE AS PART OF THE LANDSCAPE WE ACCEPTED IN OUR PART OF THIS MISSION WE FREELY CHOSE TO ENGAGE IN.****** Norm, honestly, you sound lazy. As for the rest of that post of yours, the answers are even easier than the explosive element. Who,( if there were bombs on the plane ), put them there? Who benefits! ( Do some thinking on your own here ) Very clear answers are right in our face. Logic Norm. Rely on logic. Let Billy answer questions best suited for his goal of the mission. We can answer the story of 911 with our own efforts and in concert with each other. a friend in america Shawn | ||
Scott Moderator Post Number: 836 Registered: 12-1999 |
Hello, I'm sure some of you have seen this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xk7o2JGy1U&mode=related&search=twin% | ||
Mhurley Member Post Number: 140 Registered: 04-2003 |
Hi Kingman Out of interest, are there any conspiracy theories that you don't subscribe to? Matt | ||
Norm Member Post Number: 929 Registered: 02-2000 |
Shawn,Your right I haven't bothered with any of the 911 conspiracies because I'm interested in other things. I only wanted to flesh it out for future generations. I didn't even want to use my questions in this area, but It needed to be answered once & for all by a source I trust & future generations will trust rather than the 50 theories out there. Even my current question is for clarity for future generations. I want the future of earth to know for sure 100% what a piece of scum GWB is! My Website | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 129 Registered: 07-2004 |
Thanks for your honest answer towards not being bothered to research the issue Norm. It helps remind the rest of us here, who are dedicated to the purpose of truly solving this paradigm changing event, of your level in the fact finding department . Your lip service helps keep the keyboards active in this area, so your input can be, ironically, important. Researching sucks, huh Norm? All you need is that beer slid down the bar to you, a momentary snickering comment, your first chug, the beer mug set back down, and then you turn towards the camera and you hear....CUT!.....and the shows over. No reason for reality here when we have make believe to baby-sit us. OK Norm. I too trust Billy's position. Yet, we are knowing of some very recent corrections that the Plejaren's Ptaah has announced that were quite substantial. This has caused an important new development in all we are told by them. They are not 100% correct in their past responses they have given. And see what they did Norm? They took three years of their time to dig deeper , increase their understanding, RESEARCH, and go the extra distance so they can honestly say...they found out they were wrong. That's research Norm. They spent three years. It seems your ready to close the book. We are told by these highly advanced people, that we are responsible for what needs to be done. We need to figure out and solve the challenges that are poised to destroy our progress again. So if you think that I will allow someone like you, with their virtual fat lazy ass, arm chair postings derail serious inquiries by others who can help, you can just flat-out forget it. I don't worry Norm. I think for myself. Try it some time. I seriously get a laugh out of your determined effort of posting zero valued info. Respect Norm is not what I'm after, but if you need me to applaud your service to the mission, here you go....I propose a toast everyone...a toast to the wonderful service that Norm has given towards the mission....hip hip hooray, hip hip hooray, hip hip hooray! Norm, hero of the hour. Hi Matt, Breakdown the meaning of conspiracy theory Matt. What does it say. Not the neo-con version that has been perverted to steer the sheeple astray, the actual meaning. I thought so! You have nothing to add, so.....TA DAH!....... ************* ATTACK THE MESSENGER!******************* Technique #DBT0089 in the debunkers tool book. Anything you wish to add, hmmm Matt? Thanks for your responses. a friend in america Shawn | ||
Alan Member Post Number: 12 Registered: 06-2006 |
I think its pretty clear that 911 was an inside job, but I don't know why Billy always seems to stop short of saying that, whenever he's been asked about it. There must be a reason there why Billy is deliberately with holding from stating the obvious there? | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 130 Registered: 07-2004 |
The more I think about your response Matt, the more clear I begin to get your reasons. Why would you wish to divert the attention of the discussion back at something that has been used over and over again as an attempt to discredit someone. These methods are old my friend. Why don't you add to the issue and not attempt these obviously negative designs at DISTRACTION! Well? Have some info for us? Add. Not subtract. Positive-neutral. Leave your snidely remarks at home unless you've been wrongly attacked and are defending yourself. Oh, try and use logic. It's amazing what you can discover. a friend in america Shawn | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 131 Registered: 07-2004 |
Scott, The amount of information that is available for discovery in the events of 911 is coming to the point of being staggering. I seriously suspect laziness or ulterior motives when the sand bagging starts. I value your additions and the neutral-positive nature that has been present in your postings. That video, and others that are posted at the site, allow the completely uninformed to catch a glimpse of some of the issues that don't hold water in the "official story" of 911. The other sentimental video's of the tragedy posted there are these sad reminders to keep people in the mourning, emotional state that so often blinds us to reality. The methodology works for those who allow themselves to be told what to think. a friend in america Shawn | ||
Norm Member Post Number: 945 Registered: 02-2000 |
I'm shocked Alex Jones was on Cspan with a panel about 911. Cspan refused to cover Steven Greers 2001 UFO panel. My Website | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 142 Registered: 07-2004 |
Heres an unusual poem/video that spells out what were all being controlled by and from whom. http://getintheirface.blogspot.com/2006/07/true-lies.html a friend in america Shawn | ||
Markc Member Post Number: 349 Registered: 06-2000 |
Thanks for sharing that Shawn . It's a great artistic presentation of what we understand to be true about the neocons , delivered in rap prose style . shout it from the rooftops . Mark Mark Campbell | ||
Mgilbo1 Member Post Number: 40 Registered: 09-2002 |
Alan, ""I think its pretty clear that 911 was an inside job, but I don't know why Billy always seems to stop short of saying that, whenever he's been asked about it. There must be a reason there why Billy is deliberately with holding from stating the obvious there?"" I think its a little much to ask Billy to stick his neck out like that when America isn't even his country. If you have forgotten, he's the one that has had to experience assination attempts, not us. I think Billy has provided more than enough info for you to have your answer. As he stated, the American gov't didn't plan it but they LET it happen and knew about it ahead of time. We all must seek the truth about 911 just like we have had to about Billy and UFO's. Its up to each and every one of us on our own. The crime isn't if the building fell straight down or if there were bombs used. The crime is the protectors of the American people letting it happen. This is what Billy has already told us. 33% of Americans believe that our gov't had something to do with 911. It goes to show the other 66% don't care and are just happy it wasn't them in those towers. Mark Gilbo | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 147 Registered: 07-2004 |
Hi Mark G. " It goes to show the other 66% don't care and are just happy it wasn't them in those towers." This is what we are trying to change. We will never solve this problem if we can't get another 33% to find it in themselves to go back and look at what has come to light about 911. Professionals unaffected by the US gov intimidation, are producing the scientifically duplicatable results that disagree with the " official story". Our society is under more pressure than the Cuban Missile Crisis, only this time were the bad guys and the ones calling the shots are crazy enough to launch a first strike offensive for their Armageddon end of times story some of them side on( enough of them believe this so it's fathomable ) . a friend in america Shawn | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 149 Registered: 07-2004 |
And to get further along with our studies remember to do some research on the thermite/thermate issue. Once you figure out what this mixture does it's easy to grasp how this along with other methods combined to bring down the towers. obvious facts undisputed: *South Tower falls first *Plane hitting South Tower struck on corner and blew hugh explosion of fuel outside of building *Firemen reach impact area and report they only need 2 hoses to extinguish flames *Video and pictures show people standing in entry hole looking out. *1535¼C (2795¼F) - melting point of iron *1510¼C (2750¼F) - melting point of typical structural steel *825¼C (1517¼F) - max temp of hydrocarbon fires burning in the atmosphere without pressurization or pre-heating (premixed fuel and air - blue flame) *Diffuse flames burn far cooler. *Oxygen-starved diffuse flames are cooler yet. *The fires in the towers were diffuse -- well below 800¼C. *Their dark smoke showed they were oxygen-starved -- (particularly in the South Tower). *Design of Towers were over-engineered up to 10x building code *Physical speed of Towers falling are almost identical to the speed of an object in free fall. *911 commission accepts a pancaking domino effect as part of the collapse story *Modeled experiments produce collapse times of 50 or more seconds. *Buildings came down in 10 1/2-11 seconds *Freefall for the buildings would be around 10 seconds *Building 7.................................................................................. ................................................................................................... ................................................................................................... ................................................................................................... ................................................................................................... ..................................................................................................? a friend in america Shawn | ||
Mgilbo1 Member Post Number: 42 Registered: 09-2002 |
Kingman, Thats not the point of my last post Kingman. Alan wondered why Billy always stopped just short of saying that 911 was an inside job. As my post says, its not Billy's responsibility to tell us. I think he's been very generous in giving info to back up what many have been saying for 4 years. The problem is most people trying to prove the case, lose sight of their goal. They argue endlessly over blogs and newsgroups over how the building fell. How the buildings fell will not tell you WHO allowed it to happen. This type of evidence will not convince the other 66% that the US gov't was involved, but this is most of the time wasting arguments I see all over the internet. As always, most of the 911 truth movement are out to sell videos or books and in reality, many of them do NOT want the case to be solved. If they really wanted it to be solved, they would make a website that is FREE with ALL the info they know posted for the public to view instead of charging access to their website. I feel the 9/11 movement is turning into the UFO movement all over again where unorganized, idiotic, foolish people make a mockery of the evidence for profit. If you want to convince the other 66%, then you need to provide the info in one place for people to decide and promote the hell out of it. But egos are involved and as always we need 4000 websites with 4000 people calling themselves experts in 911 truth theory.. Do we need 400 movies each depicting their own theory about 911 and each charging $30 a wack? Most likely no. Join forces, hack out a good plan and implement it. My guess is, thats why 911 was able to happen. P.S. Sorry for rambling but if I see another theory on how and why the towers fell, I'm going to stab myself. Mark Gilbo | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 150 Registered: 07-2004 |
Here Mark G. http://911research.wtc7.net/ More spoon feeding. If your not willing to sift through and discover what's trying to be squelched (meaning hidden in the NOISE), the guilty ones win. What, you think all those sites are there for the truth to come out. Wake up. That's what unlimited power/money will do. Create mountains of misdirection and mixtures of crazy theories and truth to sour the facts. " if I see another theory on how and why the towers fell, I'm going to stab myself." They are planning on that. I'm sure you only mean that metaphorically. Don't allow yourself to become one of the eyes-rolling here we go again gang that now wants to see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil. The opportunity to expose the bad guys is in the 33% that are needed to swing the balance. It's similar to our two last elections and how 'they' manipulated the score. 'They' are messing with the numbers. a friend in america Shawn | ||
Alan Member Post Number: 21 Registered: 06-2006 |
Mgilbo1: As always, most of the 911 truth movement are out to sell videos or books and in reality, many of them do NOT want the case to be solved. If they really wanted it to be solved, they would make a website that is FREE with ALL the info they know posted for the public to view instead of charging access to their website. There are many site like this one below where anyone can download and watch PLENTY of 911 videos for FREE. http://www.question911.com/links.php Not all 911 videos are for sale. Most of the GOOD ones (e.g loose change 2E) are for free. | ||
Mgilbo1 Member Post Number: 43 Registered: 09-2002 |
Kingman, How do you know if I have or have not researched 9/11. As a matter of fact I'm very informed on the events of what happened, as are many Americans. I never said there wasn't free info out there, I said there were 4000 websites with many different theories about how this even took place and by whom. And with the majority of those sites out there to profit from the disaster, including the two that you and Alan have posted here. But the average citizen, whom has very little patience, will never take the time to look around the internet as we have to find all these sites with pieces of info on each one. You know it and I know it. That was my point.. Until the 911 movement all get together to make the info EASILY available and FREE (or very low cost) to the mass public, you will never convince the majority of Americans. They, in a sense, are not mentally capable of following the info in its present form. Of course, this is my opinion. Mark Gilbo | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 151 Registered: 07-2004 |
Mark G, I agree with all that, but when someone reads the post of yours that I commented back on, they may get an impression that the 911 research is not worth going into. I'm not saying sugar coat the effort it takes to get to the real info. Everything is heating up again and facts are reaching more people who will be the deciding factor when push comes to shove. Now is a not the time for complaining over the obvious challenges. Our efforts need to guide people to discover for themselves what they need to understand. I think it's great that you have input. a friend in america Shawn | ||
Adam Member Post Number: 30 Registered: 03-2006 |
Hello, Almost all of the material covering 911 available on the internet is a load of rubbish designed to confuse people and have them spinning in circles. The "false prophets" that Billy speaks of are exactly those groups of people, who seemingly offer the truth, but truly are only deceivers and manipulators of the truth for the purpose of fattening their bank accounts. Many of these people have been bribed or blackmailed into promoting nonsense to distract from the truth. On the contrary, Eric Hufschmid is making an effort to expose the criminals behind the WTC attack on September 11 2001. His website here http://www.erichufschmid.net Regards Adam | ||
Matt Member Post Number: 55 Registered: 04-2006 |
Adam "Almost all of the material covering 911 available on the internet is a load of rubbish designed to confuse people and have them spinning in circles." Adam, I think the opposite of what you said there is correct, that there are a lot of GOOD materials and videos on the net covering 911. I also think that the link that Alan posted just before is one of the better ones too, where people can download a wide variety of GOOD 911 videos for free. http://www.question911.com/links.php | ||
Michael Member Post Number: 527 Registered: 10-2000 |
Anyone seen this version: http://www.lewrockwell.com/reynolds/reynolds12.html Michael Horn | ||
Michael Member Post Number: 529 Registered: 10-2000 |
This is part of an email someone sent me that addresses certain points regarding the lack of interception of the planes. I don't know how accurate it is but maybe some of you have experience and/orknowledge about it: "Point (1): a. The round hole in the Pentagon could not have been left by an aircraft strike. The profile of the wings and engines would have left their mark on the outer wall. b. The stainless steel and titanium in the engines would not disintegrate or melt and most of the engines would have been intact due to the low level angle of the Pentagon strike. Where was the debris? Point (2) a. "Ready Aircraft" and "Ready Pilots" designated for intercept are NEVER assigned to any "exercise". b. Ready Pilots are on "Standby" in the Ready Room and in their flight suits for instant dispatch. c. Upon notification, they run (do not walk) to a waiting van containing their flight gear which carries them to their aircraft. They put on their flight gear while in transit to their aircraft. d. The "Ready Aircraft" are kept in pristine condition by the maintenance crews, are fully armed and are "Ready for Flight" at all times. These aircraft are rotated out and other aircraft rotated in on a scheduled basis to ensure their readiness. e. Upon arrival at the flight line, the pilots exit the van, do a quick "Walk Around", enter the cockpit and light the candles (start the engines). f. Pilots do their instrument checks as they taxi to the duty runway. g. Pilots and ground crew drill continuously to ensure that they can be "wheels in well" (airborne) in ten minutes or less. If they aren't, they drill until they are. h. The Commanding Officer of any squadron that continuously fails to meet the "ten minutes or less" requirement will quickly find themselves without a command. It is quite obvious, from my 22 years of military aviation experience, that the pilots were either never ordered to respond or were ordered to "Stand Down" (most probably ordered to "Stand Down"). It would be a safe guess that the "Stand Down" order came while the pilots were in transit to their aircraft. This goes entirely against the reason for the training and for their being on duty and had to come from a very high source (Secretary of Defense or higher). Point (4) a. Parts of the Pennsylvania aircraft were found over six miles from the crash site. b. The debris from the proposed angle of impact would never have been scattered that far. c. For debris to have been scattered that far, the airliner would have had to disintegrate (explode) BEFORE it impacted the ground. The whole government story smells like a three-day old fish." Michael Horn | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 158 Registered: 07-2004 |
You can also add that a 767, at the stated speed, (nearly 500+mph) cannot follow along the ground as witness' claim (most of these people were military or people with defense contractor connections) on its approach to the building. The air turbulence that gets created from the wings reaction to the ground doesn't allow the plane to even get close. Some witness's said they could almost touch the aircraft if they were to stand on the roof of their car. If that was the case, they would be dead due to the jet blast they would of had to endured in that scenario. Being that the grass wasn't even scratch on the path the "plane" took, the only other angle would be a sharp dive towards the pentagon. But of course the official path of the "plane" was a straight line through the walls of each layer of the Pentagon, and the evidence proves that. Only it's impossible for a 767 to have been able to take a straight line. With Michael's post added to this statement, it's obvious a large plane was not responsible for the hole in the Pentagon. a friend in america Shawn | ||
Tony Member Post Number: 61 Registered: 01-2006 |
Recent round of questions to Billy - Billy: "The main reason for the towers to crash down was the extreme heat that let the metal structure melt. As far as Billy knows the explosives on the plane were in liquid form, but he does not know how the explosives were brought on the planes." This seems very strange because the second plane that hit the WTC tower, had most of the (liquid) fuel explode outside of the building, but yet, that building was the first one to go down?? | ||
Cpl Member Post Number: 183 Registered: 08-2004 |
Hi Tony, That was precisely my point earlier. The building, it seems, should have collapsed from that corner first too i.e. irregularly, rather than orderly, which is extremely difficult to achieve outside a controlled demolition -- which is why we have demolition men. cpl | ||
Alan Member Post Number: 42 Registered: 06-2006 |
Billy "The main reason for the towers to crash down was the extreme heat that let the metal structure melt. As far as Billy knows the explosives on the plane were in liquid form, but he does not know how the explosives were brought on the planes." How could terrorists have solely put the liquid explosives in the commercial planes on their own, if the amount of liquid explosives needed to bring down the towers would have had to have been a very substancial amount - measured in the tonnes! The only plausible explaination that I can see would be that the liquid explosives had to have been preplaced there in the planes (prior to them taking off with the terrorists onboard - luggage?) by U.S. secret services or peoples involved/implicite in the setting up of the 911 attacks! | ||
Tony Member Post Number: 65 Registered: 01-2006 |
Alan when you say "luggage", i take it you mean that the liquid explosives were preplaced in the freight compartment of the planes situated underneath the floor of the passenger compartment. | ||
Psycloud Member Post Number: 30 Registered: 06-2006 |
I'm still confused when it comes to the people who were standing at the hole that the plane made on the side of the building. How hot did the building get? And how much time passed before these people came over to the hole to look out the building, that would tell us how fast it cooled, therefore we could define a function to figure out approximately how long it took for the inner parts of the building to cool after the initial explosion. With a measure of how hot jet fuel could get, and how fast it cooled in the building, we could estimate how much that particular steel used in the towers could have been distorted, or melted. I am truthful to the extend at which I know the truth. | ||
Alan Member Post Number: 44 Registered: 06-2006 |
Yes, that is what i mean Tony. | ||
Matt Member Post Number: 60 Registered: 04-2006 |
Psycloud, in some of the 911 conspiracy videos it showed conclusively that jet fuel does not burn hot enough to melt steel frames. It was a purpose liquid explosive (thermite) brought onto the planes that melted the steel frames. | ||
Tony Member Post Number: 80 Registered: 01-2006 |
Shawn "I will be surprised if there remains any amongst us in this forum at least, who will object to the realities that are exposed of the different levels of involvement from our government and it's agents." Shawn, I think we should indeed keep in mind all the different levels of possible involvements of these government agents in the cover up of the 911 attacks, because if the U.S. government did play a role in orchestrating the 911 attacks, which they did, and what with the absurdity of how much it shows that 911 was part of an obvious government setup, the goverment would have naturally anticipated that, because they aren't stupid, and therefore it would be logical to assume that they would have put something in place there to stop/block/hinder any or all of these anticipated groups of smarter people who could see through the crap of the attacks from finding out how it actually happened. I think people should therefore assume that government paid agents have infiltrated and positioned themselves into the 911 truth movement to try to stop or hinder the movement with disinfo of what actually happened in the attacks. Has anyone noticed from watching most of the 911 conspiracy videos out there, how much this controlled demolishion theory of the cause of collapse of the towers is being pushed in our face? Its almost seems like as if the whole 911 truth movement is thinking of trying to prove the case that the attacks were a government setup mainly on this one theory or approach. This would be a dead end for anyone trying to prove it was a setup this way because the government would have all its top building experts on its side claiming otherwise. Could these be agents or paid operatives in the videos pushing this to people in the movement? We also know that Billy said that it was a form of liquid explosives brought onto the planes that was the reason for the collapse of the towers. | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 175 Registered: 07-2004 |
I agree Tony that the game being played has all the usual suspects, the dead end theories that poison and then quash an actual reality of this historical puzzle, I've explained those same ideas before in other posts. But I'm also willing to speak over the statement Billy made when questioned on the reasons why the buildings fell. His remark is not a complete picture of how the collapse's happened( he also is not aware of the facts of building 7 when he responds). I also would add that it's a mission goal to help people to think for themselves. A clear, simple, reproducible fact of physics states that the free fall speed of a weighted object would match the speed at which the buildings are recorded falling. A minor fraction of a second is the discernible difference, almost nil. This alone allows the realistic thought that the buildings could have been predisposed to collapse prior to being hit by planes. A second clearly recorded fact is the sudden collapse of building 7( not hit by any plane ), and in a perfect demolition form. These two points are plenty to stand on for one to begin forming an alternative view point that is not agreeable to the 911 Commission findings. It's not going to go away, so if you feel it's been to much in our face, just remember it happened 5 years ago. A snowball rolling down the freshly snowed on mountain is soon an avalanche, and this won't melt away. a friend in america Shawn | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 176 Registered: 07-2004 |
The quote of mine Tony posted was on another topic which highlighted an excellent video on 911...I believe it was in 'Miscellaneous'...a must see video production of great clarity and resting on a mountain of documented facts. a friend in america Shawn | ||
Bourst Member Post Number: 5 Registered: 06-2005 |
Does anybody know if the question of the threat or the lack of threat of the bird flu has been asked of Billie? I'm hearing more and more from qualified individuals that a worldwide pandemic is imminent, perhaps as early as 6 months. I've searched this site and I can only find 2 references to the bird flu, neither of them addressing the basic question: is this something we should prepare for? I am not an alarmist by nature but I'm hearing this more and more lately. I should think that, if this threat is real, then Ptaah and Billie would have announced it by now. Can anyone enlighten me on whether or not I should be stocking up on bottled water and canned goods? Thank you and Salome Steve | ||
Eric_drouin Member Post Number: 116 Registered: 05-2004 |
Hello Steve: My wife works in a university hospital, where they briefed everyone on the upcoming danger, special protocols to be used, they were rather alarmist (bear in mind that medical personnel must be trained for the worse case). And lately the news in the media were alarmist also However, in Figu Bulletin 55 and Special Bulletin 24, these subject were addressed, basically concluding that the epidemia remains an bird epidemia as long as it does not mutate. So not that alarmist. Have a look to David Chance site, for summarized translation. The bulletin also mentions an article giving links between Tamiflu and a senior politician in the USA. Have a look and conclude for yourself. Personal Comment #1: get rid of animals at home. Cats like birds! A dog may be curious to touch a dead bird! Personal Comment #2: Making water and goods reserve for at least 1 month is prudent, but for a different reason: considering threat of war with Iran this year that may escalate to global armed conflict (November 2006? per contact 251 prophecies??). The latter will not occur of course if for instance Bush is impeached, or courageous whistleblowers that work currently for secret services vent to the international public what they know of the criminal machinations of USA and Israel on time. (Hope these guys read this site b.t.w., and think about what they will say to their grandchildren one day ...) Tschüss and Salome | ||
Bourst Member Post Number: 7 Registered: 06-2005 |
Hello Eric and thank you for your reply. I've checked the references which you noted. If the advice is that "the epidemia remains an bird epidemia as long as it does not mutate" then the question remains, "Will it be mutating?" Perhaps my expectations are too high. With all the various warnings of assorted disasters from his 251st Contact on February 3, 1995, Meier has published advance warning of the US attack on Iraq, the increase in Islamic terrorism to follow, the appearance of SARS, the spread of "mad cow disease", the renewed public concern over chemical warfare, and the near accident at the nuclear power plant near Lyon, France. In my inexpert view, these all pale when compared to the possibility of a pandemic which has the potential for a 50% fatality rate. Why would each/any of these other events be addressed, but not the bird flu? Keeping water and/or canned goods for one month will not be affective in a scenario where it is estimated to take 6 months to develop a vaccine. We need to consider whether or not we can travel back and forth to work. Even going out of the house exposes us to wild bird droppings. And then, if it does mutate to a point of being able to travel from person to person, then no one is safe as long as we interact. If I need to collect canned goods, water and face masks reserves for 6 months, then it would be good to know. I suppose my bottom line question is; if this issue has not been addressed, then why? Can this issue be addressed? Or does it need to even be addressed? If this is a non-issue, then I can breathe a sigh of relief. But, if it's possible for us to know, then I would like to know. Salome, Steve | ||
Hector Member Post Number: 9 Registered: 04-2006 |
Would somebody ask please Mr Meier when the La Palma tsunami will take place?I actually live in the Canary Islands,just where that volcano is situated.Scientist have already said that volcano is still semi-active.I still don`t wanna die.Will somebody call a Plejaren Taxi for me when the time comes?(Just a little humor).Now seriously,if the tsunami is triggered by an eruption i will have to worry a bit most because of the toxic gases that come out ,sulfuric dioxide or trioxide.Things are going to be hot in my future! Saalome | ||
Markc Member Post Number: 315 Registered: 06-2000 |
Hi Hector ; Madrid is a fine city , you should move to somewhere nearby , but let the event pass and save yourself alot of trouble . MC Mark Campbell | ||
Lorndarken Member Post Number: 15 Registered: 12-2006 |
omg, the plejarens have talked to billy about this stuff also ? omg that is awsome , yes la palma will happen , and it not the only mega tsunamis to happen. one in the northwest of the canadian boarder and america.. man, i never thought billy would of been informed about this sorta stuff. but it is how after part of the things to come. its that we just dont know when. | ||
Savio Senior Member Post Number: 563 Registered: 07-2000 |
On 26th December, we have an 7.2 undersea earthquake close to the south of Taiwan. Luckily, there was no mega tsunamis, however, 6 submarine fibre cables were damaged. This is a disaster for the modern world. Here in Hong Kong, the communication center of the East, our internet traffic is cut of from most of the world, it might take 2 to 3 weeks to fully recover. It seems that FIGU is the only outside world that I can reach at this moment, for this I am most grateful The power of nature tells us this is time for us to improve our way of providing global communications. Oh, just imagine how life it would be if without the internet service! Salome Savio |
