| Author | Message | ||
    Pauljanus New member Post Number: 4 Registered: 06-2008 |
Michael don't worry, I'm not two-faced, it's just a nick that I jokingly borrowed from a sci-fi book series that I really enjoyed. That could also be Peter Jairus o Philip Josè, if someone wants to play catching the reference. P.S: I've noticed that many prophecies/predictions regarding assassinations of political leaders, eruptions, earthquakes, and natural disasters are kept from public until after the event. I was wondering if this was done on purpose not to introduce a time paradox by changing history? PJ | ||
Michael Member Post Number: 639 Registered: 10-2000 |
Certain predicted events are indeed kept from public knowledge until after they occur, for obvious reasons. Interestingly, this article just appeared: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080616/pl_nm/iraq_usa_funding_dc ...which, in my opinion, confirms not only how spineless, greedy and power-hungry these parasites are but how they don't miss any opportunity to see to it that the country is indeed destroyed as foretold, as dictated by the laws of cause and effect. You asked for information about a pending prediction, well, you're seeing the step-by-step movement towards the fulfillment of one them, kind of like in slow motion (or you could say instant replay). You can almost hear the inevitable, plaintive, cries of the overly entertained, clueless and deluded masses, "Why is this happening to us?" and "They hate us for our freedom!" To add to what I said before, humans don't learn because there are too many who are both arrogant and abysmally stupid, who outnumber and scream louder than the reasonable ones. So watch not only what the current president does but also the next one, no matter what he or she is saying now. Of course, in addition to watching this homicidal-suicidal spectacle, one can do their best to try to awaken the sleeping masses. Michael Horn | ||
Badr Moderator Post Number: 373 Registered: 12-2004 |
Hi PJ and Michael, Since the discussion has nothing to do with skepticism, why not move the discussion to the new topic created just for Prophecies and Predictions? http://forum.figu.org/us/messages/863/8880.html?1213298462 Salome, Badr | ||
Pauljanus Member Post Number: 5 Registered: 06-2008 |
I don't know, I agree 100% that true peace, freedom, knowledge, love, harmony, are the goals worth attaining, but sometimes I wonder if the greed, the violence, the competition, the need for supremacy aren't just hardwired in our genes, as unfortunately the (galactic) history seems to tell us. It's hard to beat your program. I often experiment it myself, in spite of my prolonged efforts in trying to be benevolent and tolerant towards my fellow humans, after a while sometims just clicks in my brain... and I feel bored. I need a conflict. And this leads me to think that all the human (terrans) forms of entertainment are based on some kind of conflict, and the ensuing resolution and catharsis. The only difference between comedy and tragedy seems to consist only in the degree of intensity of the conflict. It looks like that without conflict there's no entertainment, at least for us males. Be it Shakespeare, Rambo or Alien vs. Predator, we need a good discharge of adrenalyne from time to time. I wonder what kind of entertainment do these advanced civilizations, like the P's, enjoy. It may look like an irrelevant question, but what kind of shows do they watch, if any? Do they have TV, movies, are their representations all low-intensity from the emotional standpoint, like the soap operas, and romantic movies for women (talking about calming influences above the male aggressivity)? Do their children play games like "Risiko" or indians and cowboys? They look so aloof to me, kind of like the Vulcanians. Sometimes I speculate that all in all they enjoy visting our planet so they can feel strong emotions, they can feel alive, just like the people of the "civilized" world take a trip in the 3rd world coutries just to feel the thrill of the danger of their life in jeopardy. And then I don't feel so bad being human, with all my defects and faults. I guess that's just the way things have to be. But then again, these are only speculations. Peace PJ | ||
Trevor Member Post Number: 70 Registered: 05-2007 |
"Of course, we don't know that any politician can be trusted to keep their word..." Thats a worldwide problem for sure and not just US politicians. | ||
Badr Moderator Post Number: 374 Registered: 12-2004 |
PJ, Your latest post is also totally out of place, there is a topic specially for the Plejarens. Please keep in mind that if you don't put the effort in posting in the right place then your posts will be rejected if it doesn't fit in with the topics you are posting in. Would be appreciated if you gave a bit more care where you post your questions. And maybe use the search function at the top of each page. Salome, Badr | ||
Markc Member Post Number: 654 Registered: 06-2000 |
PJ ; I will address your comment ( re-posted below) only , as a different form of proof . Since proof is itself not limited to book publishing and newspaper publication , I will refer to another kind of proof as being something that is evident by logic in the mind of readers . Pauljanus : "I think that a thorough and satisfactory answer to these questions could help dissipate my last doubts, and maybe drive me to further propagate BEAM's inspiring message." If you are really interested in BEAM's message , I would think that rather go directly to the propagation of , that you would trouble yourself for the cultivation of understanding of it ,first . So you see , instead of reacting to your challenge , I issue yet a further challenge for you , as I am quite able to avoid linear interactions , and prefer to respond to what logic leads me to define and focus on . My purpose for communicating this way is simply that I see you as you describe yourself ; someone who looks for conflict , games and competition , and not someone who would cooperate with like-mnded individuals in a mutual purpose . Just for the record , you should only report to yourself for this one , I'm not paying attention to your progress in this department ; only further to say that the proof is in the quality of the teaching itself , detectable only by refined intellect and unnoticeable by lower forms of intellect . Nothing personal , I assure you . MC Mark Campbell | ||
Pauljanus Member Post Number: 6 Registered: 06-2008 |
Badr I apologize for my laziness in not finding the right thread for my last post. I still think though that that is a key issue to better understand the homo sapiens psychology (including mine) and hopefully change it for the better. I'll browse around the forum and see if someone has already touched the topic in a more appropriate context. Peace PJ | ||
Pauljanus Member Post Number: 7 Registered: 06-2008 |
Mark the quality of the teaching of the Plejaren is indeed self-evident. It doesn't sound totally new to me, though, it kind of reminds me (just a little) the Hegelian Fenomenology of the Spirit, when something is a thing but also its anthithesis, and then they reunite in a superior synthesis. Maybe Hegel was inspired telepathically by the P's while writing its works? Who knows. I think the trick would be to be more Zen, to preserve your individuality but also bear in mind that you are the same as the others. But expecially for a Westerner like me, the Aristotelic logic forces you to think that A can never be non-A, and that's hard to accomplish sometimes. Peace PJ | ||
Markc Member Post Number: 655 Registered: 06-2000 |
PJ ; It's enough to say that the value of the entire experience rests in the applicable development of one's many aspects of self . MC Mark Campbell | ||
Pauljanus Member Post Number: 9 Registered: 06-2008 |
Hi all I was browsing through the "Spiritual Teachings" section of the site. While I was reading about the Plejaren Cosmogony, i.e. the 7 cycles the Creation goes through, the count of "wake" and "sleep" years, etc., I wondered, how do the P's know these things? I hear they are highly rational and logical people against religions and religious thinking (as I am by BTW), and that all of their knowledge is based on scientific investigations. But in the scientific method every theory requires a proof, which is usually given through measurements done with specific instrumentation. What kind of scientific experiment did dhe P's set up to validate their cosmogony? And if this was not the case, how does it differ from a religion? And as a secondary thought, what do they mean when they talk about "years"? Earth years? Number of cycles of the fundamental oscillation of the hydrogen atom? Peace --PJ | ||
Markc Member Post Number: 656 Registered: 06-2000 |
PJ ; As far as I know , the duration of a cycle of Creation , or how many cycles there are , does not pertain to spiritual information . Just the same as if the Plejars speak of a planet that supports giant reptile life (saurians), it does not pertain to spiritual or otherwise "relegeous" ideas , if you care to compare with as such . "Cycles of Creation" and information of this type would be under the "Scientific Information" category . MC Mark Campbell | ||
Pauljanus Member Post Number: 11 Registered: 06-2008 |
Mark, usually it's not enough to claim that a notion is "scientific" to make it such. For instance: terrestrial scientists estimate that the (visible) Universe is around 13.5 billion years old because, after observation and of the galaxies and measurement of their relative speed (red shift), they've noticed they get farther away at a given rate function of the time (t), as if they were on the surface of a giant balloon (I'm oversimplifying on purpose here). So by "projecting the movie" backwards, they computed that they would come together in (or have departed from) a single point approx. X (earth) years ago, where X is the estimated Universe age. Later on they reconsidered the model, rehabilitated the Einstein cosmological constant to account for the unexpected increase in the speeed of the galaxies, discovered the "dark energy" and the "dark matter", and have consequenrly refined the estimation of X (I'm not an astrophysicist, I'm talking as a simple layman here). That of course is just a model always subject to improvements, but is the best we have so far. By analogy, I was wondering what is the P's model of the Universe and from what kind of experimental observations they got it. Would it be possible to explain it in plain words, without going into much detail, as I just (hopefully) explained ours? Peace --PJ | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 224 Registered: 10-2007 |
Hello PJ, The information the Plejarens have, which is yet beyond empirical 'proof', comes to them through their High-Council's direct communication with much higher evolved levels. These levels include that of Arahat Athersata, which is evolved to a part physical and part spirit form of existence. The knowledge and wisdom of this level is even yet surpassed by the Petale level of pure spirit-form being ,which is next before Creation itself. Salome Someone Shared Their LOVE Today. Was It YOU? J_rod7 | ||
Pauljanus Member Post Number: 16 Registered: 06-2008 |
Hello J_rod7, it seems to me it's a kind of "trust-based" kind of knowledge, then. Not unlike the first Christians accepting the teachings of the Apostles who were enligthened by the Holy Spirit, or the Jews in the desert adopting without discussions the 10-comandaments tables brought by Moses, who claimed to be in direct contact with the "Creator". If a declared "the Moon is made of cheese" I would be doing a scientific assertion, since an experiment can be concocted to confirm/refute this theory, trivially taking specimens of the lunar soil, analyzing and comparing them with different forms of what we call "cheese". On the contrary, a statement like: "A total of 85,384,834,560,000,000,000 years of total evolution from the very beginning of this DERN universe up to the SECOND level of evolution where this Creation becomes a Ur-Creation is needed JUST to evolve to the next level of evolution for this Creation, and all other Creations with a material universe in existence, including the DAL-Universe." clearly falls in the category Karl Popper calls "not falsifiable" (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Popper for more info), so I consider them belonging to the realms of religion, not science. Unless of course someone doesn't explain the kind of reproducible observations on which such a theory is based. Peace --PJ | ||
Adysor Member Post Number: 54 Registered: 03-2008 |
Hi Pauljanus "so I consider them belonging to the realms of religion, not science." No, they belong in the realms of beliefs... Adrian. | ||
Peter_brodowski Member Post Number: 419 Registered: 01-2004 |
j rod, i never read anywhere that arahat athersata is part material and part spiritual, that's the high council. arahat athersata is the first level in the purely spiritual level of evolution. | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 225 Registered: 10-2007 |
Hello PJ, The Sun will come up tomorrow. This is a BELIEF, but can it be proved? No, not really. We only have past experience to guide us in this assumption. The Sun has indeed risen every previous day of our lives, so our assumption is 99.999% proven to be true. By this truth, our belief now has the quality of certain knowledge. All Mass is Energy. To prove this initially absurd statement, it is necessary to know certain truths, i.e.: knowledge of some facts. Do you BELIEVE that mathematics is valid? If you have experience in study of mathematics from the simple (2+x=4, therefore x=2) to much more complex equations (such as: the derivation of equations to produce the trigonometric functions plotted in graphical form), then, again, your belief becomes knowledge. Then, if you start from the known laws of thermodynamics, you can mathematically derive the proof that E=MC^2, by which energy and mass are the same in different form. What I am saying is, you must gain to a certain KNOWLEDGE for yourself in order for you to get beyond belief. It is not my place to spoon-feed knowledge to you. Knowledge which you may gain in life must come from your own due diligence, study, and experience. Otherwise, you are engaging in mental masturbation. Salome Someone Shared Their LOVE Today. Was It YOU? J_rod7 | ||
Edward Member Post Number: 1147 Registered: 05-2002 |
Hi Pauljanus.... Rod's nr. 224 posting, explains it somewhat in the correct direction; except that it is the - High Council - which is Half Physical and Half Spirit; as Peter mentioned. The Plejarans KNOW through the mentioned channels, the data...which comes from 'the horse's mouth', which is The Creation (before it reaches Billy and us human beings; Through....Billy and the Plejarans). So, this has no (Cult) Religion Factors whatsoever, connected. Where as, Cult Religions, in most cases are based on - assumptions -; thus, NOT Authentic based Facts; based on MAN made concepts.[In most cases Erroneously interpretations etc....due to 'ignorance' and lack of TRUE (Creational) Knowledge...etc...] If One studies Billy's materials, Spirit(ual) Teachings...and so forth, One will gradually Understand and Comprehend, these FACTS that are presented before us: As TRUTH to be Acknowledged and Cognizant, to the individual(s). Perhaps, one day YOU TOO...can Experience like-wise, as you Study and Examine what Creation has to offer you? As has...to most of us, here. "Never Be Judgmental....If You Do Not Know The Facts", as they say. Pleasant Studying.... Edward. | ||
Pauljanus Member Post Number: 18 Registered: 06-2008 |
Hello J_rod7, "The Sun will come up tomorrow. This is a BELIEF, but can it be proved? No, not really. We only have past experience to guide us in this assumption." Ok. It's an assumption based on past experiences (=observations) upon which a descriptive model was made. The model is: the Earth is turning on its axis and around the Sun in a closed orbit, so the everyday dawn is compatible with this model. The model can be used to do some predictions. On what past experiences/observations and subsequent model is based the 7-cycles cosmology, if I may ask? "Do you BELIEVE that mathematics is valid?" Mathematics and other exact sciences are based on a restricted set of axioms (or dogmas, if you wish) from which a system is derived by logical reasoning. These axioms (example: the point is a geometric entity with no dimensions) are indeed "unprovable" through theorems. Part of the work of the scientist consists in minimizing the axiom set, so that the tenets having to be accepted by "faith" or "belief" are as little as possible. By changing the axiom set, you can come up with different types of disciplines, for instance if you consider 6 axioms for the geometry, you have the good old Euclidean geometry applicable to "straight" spaces, if you drop only 1 axiom, the 6th axiom of parallel lines, you have Riemannian, hyperbolical o elliptical geometries which can be applied to curved spaces and thus to our Universe. And to answer your questions, I believe in mathematics ONLY UNDER CERTAIN LIMITS, since Godel has proved that no system based on axioms can be considered complete, that is you can always build within it at least one indeterminate proposition that cannot be proved nor disproved. As for gaining KNOWLEDGE, I think posing questions on a forum of knowledgeable people is sure a legitimate way to gain it. Then of course somebody may have the answer but choose not to give it to me. For Adysor: belief and religion for me overlap. Peace --PJ | ||
Borthwey Member Post Number: 37 Registered: 09-2007 |
Pauljanus, Are you questioning the fact that the Plejaren accept what the High Council tells them or are you questioning the way how the High Council acquires their knowledge? The plejaren accepting what the HC says is no more a "trust-based" kind of knowledge than people who haven't done scientific research accepting what scientists say. It may involve a trust or a belief, but is it a blind belief? The plejaren must have good reasons to highly regard the information provided by the HC. DG | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 226 Registered: 10-2007 |
Greetings All, Yes, Thank you Edward for pointing out my mistake. The egg on my own face a result of being in too much of a hurry. Mea Culpa. PJ, The point of discussion is NOT the orbital qualities of planets, nor the syntax of mathematics. These were intended as examples of the process of belief in relation to the process of logical thinking. Belief extends from uncertain knowledge which may have basis in part on prior observations, even those of someone else. Logic extends from known criteria through repeatable and verifiable processes. Known criteria are basic facts which stand the challenge of time and scrutiny. If you are interested in truly learning the BASICS of the teachings from the Plejarens, you should read and study from the beginning. A good place to start, would be the original - first contact notes of Billy's meetings with the Plejarens. I recommend "Message From The Pleiades", which books now are very rare, but are available on DVD at www.theyfly.com/ Salome Someone Shared Their LOVE Today. Was It YOU? J_rod7 | ||
Pauljanus Member Post Number: 20 Registered: 06-2008 |
Borthwey, actually I'm questioning the whole knowledge chain, that is: 1) the ETs exists 2) they are here on Earth 3) a particular race of ETs is in contact with a man named Billy Meier 4) every teaching of Billy Meier it's dictated by the P's 6) everything the P's say is true as far as their direct knowledge is concerned 7) and when they don't have direct knowledge of a subject, they trust the teaching of a High Council of Andromeda 8) the HC has a superior knowledge of the Universe 9) the HC is telling all the truth and so on. So far I've just got past the point 2) and perhaps the 3), but I have reason to believe we have some loose links here and I'm trying to tighten them a little. On the other hand if I trusted even the "official" Earth science, I would believe that we were still scanning the sand of Mars looking for bacteria, while we had intelligent-driven high-technology crafts right under our nose for decades and maybe millennia, and I wouldn't be here talking about Plejarens or other "star brothers", as somebody called them in the past. The good thing of science is that when it makes an assertion, it should provide you also for the tools for checking it by yourself, and that's why I'm curious about the assumptions and the path followed by the P's to reach their conclusions. Peace --PJ |
