| Author |
Message |
   
Jbarreto
Member
Post Number: 23
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 - 07:15 pm: | 
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Dear Bob - Phi_spiral,
Passages numbers 868,869 and further passages until 881 etc, page 155 of the Book OM Please the PASSAGES in the Book OM carefully.
These passages from Kanon 31 are very many, precisely 1400 (one thousand and four hundred) passages narrated by HENOK.
The exact passages where Henok mentions this tree are these:
Please do read the passages as indicated below
Passages Nr. 868,869 and further passages until 881 etc, These passages one can find on the page 155 of the Book OM. By the way the Kanon 31 starts on page 107 through page 173 on passage 1400.
I have already indicated the passages on my previous posting (Post Number: 21) above please read it above one more time more carefully then.
Jbarreto
Member
Post Number: 21
Registered: 02-2009
Salome always,
José Barreto Silva
Brazilian guy.
That which glitters is born for the moment;
The genuine remains intact for future days.
von Goethe
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Phi_spiral
Member
Post Number: 422
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 - 08:12 pm: |
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Hello again Jose
Never mind my previous post #421 above, I think I found it now. I would like to study it a bit more in its' full context and post a reply later.
Regards
Bob |
Phenix
Member
Post Number: 251
Registered: 07-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 - 11:28 pm: |
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Greetings to our moderators and to all members - fellow students of the Spiritual Teachings des Herrn Meier, the true and last of our Prophets!
A REQUEST to José Barreto Silva,
Friend, could you please translate the following for us:
OM 20:100 (page 37)
OM 20:156 and OM 20: 157 (page 42)
It would be truly appreciated.
Now then.
THE TREE OF WISDOM - DER BAUM DER WEISHEIT
José Barreto Silva, Phi_spiral(Bob) and all concerned,
See OM 31: 804 ( begin at page 152 and further; during the 'Tour' given to Henok)
The word 'TREE OF WISDOM' is written here:
OM 31:869 (page 155)
THE 'FACULTIES' OF THE TREE OF WISDOM (and also the name 'JOHANNISBROTBAUM')and THE HISTORY OF THE TREE OF WISDOM ON EARTH is told from here on:
OM 31:870 ( page 155, also)
Maybe José Barreto Silva would find it necessary to translate those passages for all to read.
Salome,
Adam.
Sprechet zur Weisheit: "Wahrlich, du bist meine Schwester, und in dir wohnet die Klugheid, die da ist meine Freundin."
( OM 31:271 ) |
Phi_spiral
Member
Post Number: 423
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 08:47 am: |
|
Hello Jose
I have examined the relevant passages which you cited that led you to believe the tree of wisdom was a literally real botanical tree and I remain convinced otherwise that it is indeed a metaphor. I will share my explanations with you and the forum as to why, after I have read a bit more and had time to compose my thoughts, which should be in the near future. At that time I will also post the relevant passages in German and English for all to examine. Meanwhile, I ask everyone to withhold judgment on the matter until after they have read my post and I thank you for your patience.
Regards
Bob
“A nice woman without breeding is as it were of a sow with golden hair, so the same man without breeding is as it were to a boar with golden claws.” - From OM (Omfalon Murado) |
Phi_spiral
Member
Post Number: 424
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 05:43 pm: |
|
Hans-Georg Lanzendorfer has written an excellent article entitled, Wortgläubigkeit und Hörigkeit, (Word Devoutness and Bondage). In the article, Hans stresses the importance of looking beyond the surface day-to-day meaning of the words found in the FIGU material to a much deeper meaning that is being conveyed. As he put it, “Schriften nicht einfach zu lesen – sondern eingehend zu studieren und in einen sogenannten Praxistransver das Gelernte im Leben umzusetzen.“ (“Not to simply read writing but to study in detail and to convert into a so-called practical transfer of what they had learned in life.”)
To illustrate the point, he gives thirteen examples of verses found in OM and provides explanations for their interpretation. Here are four of them below:
Example 1:
OM Page 254 verse 2272
“If a person has become thirty, he can understand to a third the weather.”
Explanation: If the person has become thirty years, he understands to a third of his life, his own personality and his people. The weather refers not necessarily to the weather that happens in the sky, but is meant the weather of the people. Therefore their moods, people knowledge, character awareness and interests. In this case, the weather is only one metaphor for all the processes in the human being.
Example 2:
OM Kanon 32 verses 1606
“Sharp brushes scrape off the wool, however, firm woman's breasts give a lot of milk.”
Explanation: A lot of wool abrasion means that the people are excluded. It is speaking from exploitation, from sucking out, from overexploitation etc. Milk given from a woman symbolically means love, goodness, Life-receiving, Life-supporting his, etc. One refers to the mother image. And in the other, if one scrapes off wool to a sheep, then one steals, exploits, takes. The two contrasts are represented in the verse, the greed and the motherly love.
Example 3:
OM Kanon 53 verses 87
“It would be a mockery if a person wanted to talk and the whole person would stand behind the whole speech.”
Explanation: It would be a mockery if the person said the truth because the person does not say the truth as a rule and never says what they really think - or only seldom say what they really think. Thus it would be seen as a mockery compared with the truth.
Example 4:
OM Kanon 32 verses 1678
“Misfortune has no woolen socks, but foolish humans glee.”
Explanation: Misfortune has no woolen socks means that a misfortune does not become warm next to them. Others are not interested in one’s misfortune, but are joyful of their shortcoming. They are rather fond of the damage if a misfortune befalls on somebody else. Woolen socks signifies - to have no warmth - no security, no joy. Some rejoicing is called for. However, “foolish rejoicing” is malicious pleasure.
Applying this same methodology then, I will now post below the passages in previous discussion concerning the “tree of wisdom”. First is the original German quote from OM, followed by my rough unofficial English translation and finally by my explanation highlighted in the colour red of what I see as the actual or greater meaning. |
Jbarreto
Member
Post Number: 23
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 06:00 pm: |
|
Dear Phenix,
This posting is also dedicated to Bob-Phi_spiral also
Dear Phenix, on your posting above you wrote/said:
A REQUEST to José Barreto Silva,
Friend, could you please translate the following for us:
OM 20:100 (page 37)
OM 20:156 and OM 20: 157 (page 42)
It would be truly appreciated.
Phenix
Member
Post Number: 251
Registered: 07-2008
Therefore here you have then the excerpts from the Book OM - The Book of the Books - The Book of the Words of Truth as you requested.
Kanon 20
Canon 20
Verse auf Seite 37
Verses on page 37 of the Book OM
Translated by José Barreto Silva - Brazil
Donnerstag, 19. März 2009 - 21:48:16 - Brasilien
Thursday, March 19th 2009 21:48:16 - Brazil
100. Also ist nunmehr gegeben der letzte Prophet dieser Wichtigkeit für alle Zeit, und so auch das Buch des Wortes der Wahrheit ein letztliches Mal, und nicht wird folgen eine weitere Schrift und ein Prophet gleicher Wichtigkeit ein andermal, so aber wird auch nicht folgen ein Reformer, denn gegeben ist alles im Buch des Wortes der Wahrheit und durch den Propheten und dessen Lehre des Geistes in erschöpfender Form, so Reformer und neue Lehren und Propheten nach dem Propheten der Neuzeit nie und niemals sein werden, und so doch welche kommen und sich Gesandte oder Reformer nennen in eigenen Gnaden, dann die also voller Falschheit sind und voller Irrung, Lug und Trug.
100. Therefore is now given the last prophet of this importance for all time, and thus also the Book of the Words of the Truth for the last time, and will not follow either another further writing and a prophet of the same importance at some other time, so, however, does not follow a reformer either, because, all is given in the Book of the Words of the Truth and by the prophet and his Teachings of the Spirit in an exhausting form, so reformers and new teachings and prophets after the Prophet of the modern times never and never will be, and however still come those who call themselves envoys or reformers in their own graces, then, therefore, are full of falsehood and full of delusions/wrongness, lies and deception.
101. Also wird nicht sein ein andermal ein Prophet nach dem Propheten der Neuzeit, und so wird auch nicht sein ein Reformer oder Gesandter anderer Art, denn gegeben ist die Wahrheit der wahrlichen Wahrheit durch den Propheten der Neuzeit, und es ist die gegebene Wahrheit aller Wahrheit die vollumfängliche Wahrheit, die nicht kann reformiert werden in auch nur Tüpfelchen.
101. Therefore, there will not be at another time a prophet after the Prophet of the new times, and thus there will be not either a reformer or an emissary of other type, because the truth of the true truth is given through the prophet of the new times, and it is the given truth of all truth the full extensive truth, which cannot be reformed also in a single dot.
Excerpts from the Book OM - The Book of the Books - The Book of the Words of Truth.
Verse auf Seite 42
Canon 20 - Verses on page 42
156. Und es spricht der JHWH zum Propheten: Du bist nicht zum Hüter der Menschen gemachet, und also nicht zu einem Wachter über sie, und so auch nicht der JHWH.
156. And the JHWH speaks this to the prophet: You are not made the guardian of the humanity and therefore not a guardian over them and so also neither the JHWH.
157.Du aber bist gemachet aus eigener Kraft zum Propheten der Belehrung der Wahrheit unter den Menschen, so auch der JHWH ist Belehrender für den Propheten und für die Menschengeschlechter.
157. You, however are made from own strength into prophet to instruct the truth among the humankind, so also is the JHWH an instructor for the prophet and for the human race.
****
All excerpts above were taken from the Book Om and were translated by José Barreto Silva - Brazil.
Donnerstag, 19. März 2009 - 21:48:16 - Brasilien
Thursday, March 19th 2009 21:48:16 - Brazil.
___
Ref.:
Phi_spiral
Member
Post Number: 423
Thank you dear friend Billy Meier from the Deep of My Heart for everything you have taught me to see with open eyes the truth where you point it. Eight years now by your side until the end.
These words below are dedicated to Phi_spiral-Bob:
So Bob-Phi_spiral you said that I J. Barreto have examined the relevant passages on the Book OM which I have cited to you that led me to believe.... led me to believe???
How this world is full of hard heads and know-it-alls and will continue to exist for a long time.
People like this person Bob that tries in every forms possible to misguide others and to introduce his/hers own ideas of illusion and self-delusion which they have learnt with the philosophical imbecilities of the earthly religions trying to insert it in the words which were said and written by the true prophet Edward Billy Meier.
These words below - taken from the Book OM are precisely well fitted to people like you:
101. Also wird nicht sein ein andermal ein Prophet nach dem Propheten der Neuzeit, und so wird auch nicht sein ein Reformer oder Gesandter anderer Art, denn gegeben ist die Wahrheit der wahrlichen Wahrheit durch den Propheten der Neuzeit, und es ist die gegebene Wahrheit aller Wahrheit die vollumfängliche Wahrheit, die nicht kann reformiert werden in auch nur Tüpfelchen.
101. Therefore, there will not be at another time a prophet after the Prophet of the new times, and thus there will be not either a reformer or an emissary of other type, because the truth of the true truth is given through the prophet of the new times, and it is the given truth of all truth the full extensive truth, which cannot be reformed also in a single dot.
Bob you are a stubborn person and I ask to you please to forget that I do exist in this world and please forget for good my name and that I exist in this world.
Stubborn Bob that want to see his own illusions and metaphorical considerations in the words of the true Book of the Words of Truth. Do you think Billy is a what? Do you think he would write in other texts (which I cannot remember which) about this tree with lies??
I don't care what you think about the Book Om or what you consider, or take for granted, or regard in relation to the so called Tree of Life that that the own Prophet himself HAS WRITTEN elsewhere that THIS tree was BROUGHT HERE from another planet and he HE BILLY himself affirms categorically that the tree was really a tree.
Listen for my part you will be there alone, alone with yourself - for my part you will be there speaking to yourself in your own delusions speaking to your own invisible buttons. I do not care if you are a scholar, has a degree, whatever or if you read or not the German language.
Billy Meier is in truth a friend of mine, he knows me in truth now for aroubd 8 years and I want you to dive very deeply in your delusions and know-it-all-ness and forget me once and for all. This subject about this tree with - from my part IS FINISHED FOR GOOD!!! You stubborn hard head which SEE and read the Truth but want to change it in your own grace! Go do your homework like I did and am being doing for almost 9 years and by learning true TRUTH with Billy Meier and not DELUSIONS with people like you stubborn hard head. Please Bob do not ask me for more information on this subject anymore I do not want to waste my time anymore with things which are ALREADY confirmed as true by the Prophet Billy Meier.
To you Bob from,
Sincerely and in Honesty for the whole planet Earth to read in public of I think of your "metaphorical" considerations.
José Barreto Silva
The Brazilian guy.
Yes, I am Brazilian.
That which glitters is born for the moment;
The genuine remains intact for future days.
von Goethe
|
Jbarreto
Member
Post Number: 23
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 06:04 pm: |
|
To: Phi_spiral-Bob,
Ref.:
Phi_spiral
Member
Post Number: 423
Thank you dear friend Billy Meier from the Deep of My Heart for everything you have taught me to see with open eyes the truth where you point it. Eight years now by your side until the end.
These words below are dedicated to Phi_spiral-Bob:
So Bob-Phi_spiral you said that I J. Barreto have examined the relevant passages on the Book OM which I have cited to you that led me to believe.... led me to believe???
How this world is full of hard heads and know-it-alls and will continue to exist for a long time.
People like this person Bob that tries in every forms possible to misguide others and to introduce his/hers own ideas of illusion and self-delusion which they have learnt with the philosophical imbecilities of the earthly religions trying to insert it in the words which were said and written by the true prophet Edward Billy Meier.
These words below - taken from the Book OM are precisely well fitted to people like you:
101. Also wird nicht sein ein andermal ein Prophet nach dem Propheten der Neuzeit, und so wird auch nicht sein ein Reformer oder Gesandter anderer Art, denn gegeben ist die Wahrheit der wahrlichen Wahrheit durch den Propheten der Neuzeit, und es ist die gegebene Wahrheit aller Wahrheit die vollumfängliche Wahrheit, die nicht kann reformiert werden in auch nur Tüpfelchen.
101. Therefore, there will not be at another time a prophet after the Prophet of the new times, and thus there will be not either a reformer or an emissary of other type, because the truth of the true truth is given through the prophet of the new times, and it is the given truth of all truth the full extensive truth, which cannot be reformed also in a single dot.
Bob you are a stubborn person and I ask to you please to forget that I do exist in this world and please forget for good my name and that I exist in this world.
Stubborn Bob that want to see his own illusions and metaphorical considerations in the words of the true Book of the Words of Truth. Do you think Billy is a what? Do you think he would write in other texts (which I cannot remember which) about this tree with lies??
I don't care what you think about the Book Om or what you consider, or take for granted, or regard in relation to the so called Tree of Life that that the own Prophet himself HAS WRITTEN elsewhere that THIS tree was BROUGHT HERE from another planet and he HE BILLY himself affirms categorically that the tree was really a tree.
Listen for my part you will be there alone, alone with yourself - for my part you will be there speaking to yourself in your own delusions speaking to your own invisible buttons. I do not care if you are a scholar, has a degree, whatever or if you read or not the German language.
Billy Meier is in truth a friend of mine, he knows me in truth now for around 8 years and I want you to dive very deeply in your delusions and know-it-all-ness and forget me once and for all. This subject about this tree with - from my part IS FINISHED FOR GOOD!!! You stubborn hard head which SEE and read the Truth but want to change it in your own grace! Go do your homework like I did and am being doing for almost 9 years and by learning true TRUTH with Billy Meier and not DELUSIONS with people like you stubborn hard head. Please Bob do not ask me for more information on this subject anymore I do not want to waste my time anymore with things which are ALREADY confirmed as true by the Prophet Billy Meier.
To you Bob from,
Sincerely and in Honesty for the whole planet Earth to read in public of what I think of your "metaphorical" considerations.
José Barreto Silva
The Brazilian guy.
Yes, I am Brazilian.
That which glitters is born for the moment;
The genuine remains intact for future days.
von Goethe
|
Phi_spiral
Member
Post Number: 425
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 06:45 pm: |
|
Jose, in my post #420, I suggested if you go back and look at the section in OM pertaining to Henok more closely that it would become more clear to you that the “tree of wisdom” is a metaphor and not a literal tree. But you insisted that it had to be taken as a literal tree because an analogy was made to the fruit of a carob tree (analogy = when something is said to be like something else). I hope you see the irony in that. I will now explain to you why the fruit of the carob tree is itself a metaphor. This appears in verse #87- but I shall include the verses before and after that in order to place it in proper context.
OM, Kanon 31
864. Alsbald sah ich sieben Berge, und die waren da voll von köstlichen Nardegewächsen und wohlriechenden Bäumen, also ward da aber viel an Zimt und Pfeffer.
864. Directly I saw seven mountains, and they were full of delightful nard growth and sweet smelling trees, however, a lot of cinnamon and pepper.
Seven mountains could refer to either the seven prophets, OR possibly the 7 Pillars of Wisdom that hold up the House: Love, Truth, Justice, Knowledge, Logic, Reverence, and Honour discussed earlier in the same Kanon. Whichever it is, positive growth abounds from it. Nard, is a plant from which a fragrant oil is extracted. Cinnamon has a long history both as a spice and as a medicine and pepper is one of the most common spices having been known and prized since antiquity for both its flavour and its use as a medicine.
865. Und ich ging weiter zu den sieben Bergen, und alsbald schritt ich hinweg über deren Scheitel, fern hin gen Osten, und in Begleitung der flammenden Wächter der Arahat Athersata, die mir da nicht wichen von meiner Seite.
865. And I went further to the seven mountains, and directly, I strode over their vertex away, distant towards east, and in company of the flaming guards of the Arahat Athersata, that didn't go away from my side.
Henok was accompanied on this journey by representatives of Arahat Athersata.
866. Und weiterhin zogen wir gen Osten, weithin über das erythräische Meer, hoch hinweg über den Ort Zutuel, bis hin zum Zweistromland bei Uruk Gart, im Königreich von Gjlgamesch.
866. And we moved further east, far away over the Erythräische Sea, high away over the place Zutuel, up to the two-stream-country near Uruk Gart, in the kingdom of Gilgamesh.
Henok is taken to the place where he will begin his teaching in this incarnation somewhere around Uruk Gart.
867. Da aber führeten mich die Wächter zurück in die Zeit und in den Garten der Gerechtigkeit, wo ich erblickete bunte Fülle von Bäumen und Pflanzen und Blumen.
867. There, however, the guards transported me back in time to the garden of justice, where I beheld the coloured fullness of trees and plants and flowers.
Henok is transported back in time to witness the teachings of previous incarnations of the Nokodemion/Henok lineage and the fruit that they bore.
868. Und gar viele waren dort, Bäume und Pflanzen und Blumen, grosse und kleine, die dort wachsen, wohlduftend, sehr schön und herrlich.
868. And even many were there, trees and plants and flowers, big and small ones which grow there, very nice and delightfully fragrant.
Many good things resulted from the Nokodemion/Henok lineage
869. Also aber sah ich dort den Baum der Weisheit, behangen mit grossen und süssen und wohlschmeckenden Früchten, die jenen Menschen, die von dem essend sind, grosse Weisheit lehren.
869. So, however, I saw there the tree of wisdom, laden with great, sweet and tasty fruits which teach that person which are eating from him, great wisdom.
A reference to the spiritual teachings themselves as will be delivered by Henok
870. Und der Baum der Weisheit gleichet dem Johannisbrotbaum, und seine Frucht ist, wie die Weintraube sehr gut.
870. And the tree of wisdom resemble how the fruit of the carob tree is, and bunches of grapes, very well.
Carob was eaten in Ancient Egypt. It was also a common sweetener and was used in the hieroglyph for "sweet". So the fruit of the tree of wisdom, the teachings, is sweet as conveyed by the carob fruit and grapes.
871. Der Duft des Baumes aber betöret und verbreitet sich und dringet sehr weit, und also sagte ich: "Gar schön ist dieser Baum, und wie schön und ergötzlich ist sein Anblick, und wohlriechend seine Früchte."
871. The scent of the tree, however, is beguiling and spreads and penetrates very far, and I said: "This tree is nicely done, and how nice and delightful is his sight, and fragrantly is his fruits."
The fruits of the spirit teachings are nice and fragrant.
872. Und der flammende Wächter Rufael antwortete und sagte zu mir: "Siehe, Henok, dies ist der Baum der Weisheit, von dem schon deine Vorfahren gegessen haben, so sie Erkenntnis der Weisheit fanden und sie ihre Augen öffneten.
872. And the flaming guard Rufael answered and said to me: "See, Henok, this is the tree of wisdom from which already your forefathers{ancestry} have eaten, and thus found their knowledge of the wisdom and it opened their eyes.
A reference to the Nokodemion/Henok lineage of which he is part of
873. Der Baum dieser Art stehet aber nur hier und einmal auf der Erde, so er nirgendswo mehr wachset an einem anderen Orte.
873. However, the tree of this type stands on the earth here and now, and accordingly he grows no more at any other places.
The Nokodemion/Henok lineage is appearing on earth at that time and on no other planet
874. Also aber ist er auch nicht ein Geschöpf der Erde, sondern ein Fremdling hier auf dieser Welt, denn er ist weit hergebracht von einer fernen Welt im Universum und also gepflanzet hier durch die Söhne und Töchter der Himmel.
874. Therefore, however, he is not a creature of the earth, but a stranger here in this world, because he is brought far from a distant world in the universe and planted here by the sons and daughters of the heavens.
The spirit of Henok was brought here from Lasan. See OM, Kanon 31:43 It was Gabriel who had orchestrated his arrival and birth arrangement. See OM, Kanon 31, 564-565
875. Um den Menschen Weisheit zu geben.
875. To give wisdom to the people.
Referring to the teachings
876. Und um den Menschen das Leben zu geben.
876. And to give life for the person.
}Information to make a vibrant human being
877. Und um den Menschen das SEIN zu geben.
877. And to give the BEING for the human being.
To be cognizant of essence and purpose
878. Und es lebet der Baum in Schönheit und Pracht und traget Früchte für siebenhundert Jahre, alsdann er verdorret und absterbet ohne fruchtbare Samen, weilen er eingeschlechtlich ist und keine Befruchtung findet durch seinesgleichen, also ihm keine Nachkommen gegeben sind.
878. And the tree lives in beauty and splendour and carries fruits for 700 years, then he dries up and stops functioning without fertile seeds{sperms}, he is unisexual finding no comparable conception, so to him no descendants are given.
700 years = 7 generations = 7 prophets appearing on earth and then the lineage ends with no new appearance by the prophet, and thus no descendents
879. Wahrlich, also ist dies der Baum der Weisheit und der Baum des Lebens im Garten der Gerechtigkeit, dessen Geheimnis aber die Menschenkinder der Erde nicht kennen, deroweilen sie ihn aber nennen als Baum des Lebens im Paradiese.
879. So this is really the tree of wisdom and the tree of life in the garden of justice whose secret, however, the human children of the earth do not know, however, because they refer to him as a tree of life in paradise.
The tree of wisdom and life here would be a reference to the teachings from the Nokodemion/Henok lineage.
880. Es ist das Geheimnis aber vom Baume der Weisheit, dass seine Frucht berget einen Stoff, der da erweitert das Bewusstsein des Menschen, wenn er esset davon, so er grosse Erkenntnisse der Weisheit erlanget, gleichsam dem ist mit allerlei Pflanzen der Erde.
880. It is the mystery, however, from the tree of wisdom that his fruit rescue the material which the consciousness of the person extends there if he eat of it, thus he attain great realisations of wisdom, as it were to him is with all kinds of plants of the earth.
If the person ingests and consumes the teachings, and makes it part of their life their consciousness will be raised and attain wisdom – just like one has to eat plant food for nourishment and life.
I may be off the mark a bit in some of my explanations of the metaphors, but I think they are close enough to get the gist or flavor of what is being conveyed. So I do not claim they are the only explanations nor the best explanations merely the best I can articulate at this time. It is probably a good question to ask Billy in the next round and get clarification on so I think I shall.
Regards
Bob |
Schantz
Member
Post Number: 34
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 09:41 pm: |
|
Jose and Bob,
I'm enjoying your efforts in translating the material. I think it's important and much easier to read your postings when your both being respectful of each others interpretations from the same material as you have been doing. I don't think either of you have to prove your right and the other person is wrong. Giving us your best translation and interpretation along with the German version is appreciated even if there are differences in your points of view. |
Edward
Member
Post Number: 1351
Registered: 05-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 11:34 pm: |
|
Hi All....
Am Neutral-Positive on this one.
Yes, that would indeed be Something!
I also did read it was mentioned in Jose's version, and NOT being a Metaphor.
"The Tree Of Wisdom," Literally, being taken within the Concept as it is
mentioned. And from thereon, it was 'translated/interpreted' bit-by-bit into
a: Wording Format. [i.e: every pieces of the tree representing an aspect,
concerning...]
But again: there could be a slight translation error done by one of the
gentlemen, eh?[Or, whomever else...]
Edward. |
Jbarreto
Member
Post Number: 25
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 07:12 am: |
|
REF.:
Phi_spiral
Member
Post Number: 425
Registered: 03-2007
Phi_spiral,
Bob your interpretation IS BEYOND RECOGNITION made in a WRONG way and is a bad interpretation made by you yourself only.
BILLY MEIER himself BOB hard head has already written in other texts OTHER than the Book OM about this tree AND BILLY HIMSELF says THIS WAS A REAL TREE you stubborn BOB!!
Besides your translation IS WRONG!!!
See below:
CORRECT TRANSLATION MADE BY JOSÉ BARRETO SILVA
Passage number 873 of Book OM KANON 31
873. Der Baum dieser Art stehet aber nur hier und einmal auf der Erde, so er nirgendswo mehr wachset an einem anderen Orte.
873. The tree of this type stands (stehen=rises/is found/to stand) however (nur=only, just) ONLY here and once on the earth, thus it does not grow at any other place more.
In german Bob the word NUR/nur means (nicht mehr als) ONLY; JUST; NOT "now" the word NOW in german is "nun" or "jetzt" for your information Bob.
Now this your INCORRECT and very badly/wrongly interpreted/deturped/misguiding TRANSLATION MADE BY yourself Bob:
873. Der Baum dieser Art stehet aber nur hier und einmal auf der Erde, so er nirgendswo mehr wachset an einem anderen Orte.
THIS IS WRONGLY translated/interpreted==>> 873. However, the tree of this type stands on the earth here and now, and accordingly he grows no more at any other places.
The Nokodemion/Henok lineage is appearing on earth at that time and on no other planet.
José Barreto Silva
Wasting my precious time with Bob stubborn and hard head.
Jose, please knock off the hard head name calling, a bit of patience goes a long way!-Scott
That which glitters is born for the moment;
The genuine remains intact for future days.
von Goethe
|
Borthwey
Member
Post Number: 85
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 10:53 am: |
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Phi_Spiral,
Are you serious? The text you translated seems quite clear and straight-forward. There are no ambiguities to interpretate.
Did you find implausible that the fruits of a tree would have such effects on the consciousness?
These interpretations are just… inventions.
JBarreto,
This drawing depicting our beloved Pope will appear in tomorrow’s edition of Público (Portuguese newspaper). It does make him look very feral, depraved and sanguinary. I thought this was an interesting coincidence, considering your recent references of the people-eating giants of the past…
http://ultimahora.publico.clix.pt/noticia.aspx?id=1370125&idCanal=61
I hope this is not considered defamatory... I guess His Holiness won't mind...
David
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Phenix
Member
Post Number: 252
Registered: 07-2008
| | Posted on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 11:45 am: |
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Greetings to all,
Thanks, José Barreto Silva.
I shall now add OM 26:49-56.
Any correction of and/or addition to the following unofficial, unauthorized and rather literal translation will be appreciated.
NOTE:
[...] stands for my translation
(...) stands for my own other or additional words to the words of the original text, as i understood them.
OM 26:49
So höret denn, wenn ich rufe, ihr Menschen der Erde, höret und lauschet meinem Wort, und weigert euch nicht meine Hand zu greifen, die ich euch da recke zur Hilfe, doch wahrlich, viele von euch missachten sie.
[Thus hear (me) then, if I call; you, humans of earth, hear and listen (to) my word, and do not refuse to take my hand, which I extend (strain) to you for assistance, but truly (indeed), many of you ignore it.]
OM 26:50
Wahrlich, ich bin euer Prophet, doch ihr lasset fahren all meinen Rat, denn ihr wollet eure eigens erzeugte Strafe erleiden, wie ich das euch belehret habe.
[Truly (indeed), I am your Prophet, but you let all my advice drive(no heed given), because you want to suffer your purposefully created punishment(the punishment you yourself called upon yourself), as I taught you that(in accordance with my teachings)]
OM 26:51
Wisset aber, dass in mir ist für euch Traurigkeit und Trübsal, so ich nicht über euch lachen kann und nicht spotten, wenn das böse Unglück über euch kommet, das ich euch offenbaret habe, und über das ihr in euch heimlich denket und es fürchtet.
[Know however, that there is sadness and affliction(tribulation) in me for you, thus I can not laugh at you and (cannot) scoff(mock), if the bad misfortune comes over(upon) you, which I have revealed to you, and of which you, secretly in(within) yourself, think and (which) you fear.]
OM 26:52
Also werdet ihr meiner Worte bedenken, wenn es über euch kommet wie ein Sturm, wie ihr heimlich fürchtet.
[Thus you shall consider my words, if it(the bad misfortune) comes over(upon) you like a storm, as you secretly fear(it).]
OM 26:53
Und euer Unglück wird sein wie ein Unwetter ohne Ende, wenn über euch kommen Angst und Not, Furcht, Elend, Schrecken und Entsetzen.
[And your misfortune shall be like a tempest(heavy weather) without end, if over you come fear and disaster(calamity; dearth; deficiency), dread, misery, fright and dismay.]
OM 26:54
Zu dieser Stunde werdet ihr nach mir rufen, aber ich werde nicht antworten, und so ihr nach mir suchet, so also werdet ihr mich nicht finden, und also werde ich euch nicht helfend sein können, weshalben ihr dann den weg zum Gerechten selbst finden müsset, so euch das noch gelingen kann.
[At this hour you will call after me, but I will not answer, and (if) you look for me, you won't find me, and hence I will not be able to be helpful to you( i will not be able to help you); consequently you must then find yourself (on your own ) the way towards the Righteous(ones), if you were still to succeed in doing so.]
OM 26:55
Und so werden gross für euch sein die Not und die Trübsal zu jener Stunde, weil ihr hasset die Lehre und nicht truget in euch Ehrfurcht und Respekt vor dem Leben und vor der Erfüllung der Gesetze und Gebote der Schöpfung.
[And so at that hour, the dearth(calamity; disaster) and the tribulation(affliction) will be large(great) for you, because you hate the Teachings and (you) did not carry(bear)in you reverence and respect for life and for the fulfillment of the laws and requirements of Creation.]
OM 26:56
Und ich kann euch in eurer schweren Zeit und Stunde nicht helfen, denn ihr wollet meine Ratgebung nicht, und ihr habet mich gelästert und verfolget und nicht anerkennet, so ich noch unter euch ward und euch wegweisend ward und euch hätte helfend sein können.
[And I cannot help you in your heavy time and hour, for you do not want my advice, and you have vilified and persecuted me and not acknowledged(me), as(the time; when) i was still among you and showed you the way and could have helped you.]
Salome,
Adam. |
Earthling
Member
Post Number: 217
Registered: 05-2008
| | Posted on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 12:20 pm: |
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I second Schantz's post #34, word for word.
Jose, the repeated name calling is a bit overdone. Your head may be of similar quality as your accusation of Bob's head, stubborn and hard. That is not intended as criticism.
As Schantz said: I greatly appreciate your work and I also appreciate Bob's efforts. |
Jamesm
Member
Post Number: 132
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 01:18 pm: |
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I think this is one for Questions Answered By Billy section for sure. I would like to know whether it was a real tree and so would future readers I suspect....before Billy's spirit departs this world.
James G. T. Moore
Webmaster www.futureofmankind.co.uk
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Historeed
Member
Post Number: 8
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 02:42 pm: |
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I have to agree with Bob on this... If the "Tree of Wisdom" was a real living plant on Earth long ago, then logically it has by now ceased to exist. It seems to me that the "Tree of Wisdom" would be incapable of death/change, just as Truth is incapable of death/change. Therefore, a metaphorical interpretation seems to be the logical conclusion.
Thanks to Bob and Jose for their important translations...they are much appreciated!}
Historeed
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Scott
Moderator
Post Number: 1720
Registered: 12-1999
| | Posted on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 04:56 pm: |
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Hello,
I have asked one of the other moderators whether this "Tree of Wisdom" is/was an actual tree or a metaphor for the spiritual teachings. I could be wrong, but I think this tree did actually exist at one time.
Scott |
Earthling
Member
Post Number: 219
Registered: 05-2008
| | Posted on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 05:13 pm: |
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Perhaps, to bring this wisdom tree thread, full circle: The tree may have been both real and metaphorical, at the same time. There can be room for both hard headed & stubborn Jose and Bob to both be correct.
Is there not symbolic meaning in material manifestations? Which came first; the chicken or the egg? Creation was an idea of precreation, perhaps the actual tree was a manifested symbolic image idea of the spiritual teachings as Bob has suggested.
Or not. |
Johnnybalmain
Member
Post Number: 12
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 07:46 pm: |
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Metaphorically speaking a very interesting read. I too would like to know the truth. Me thinks their might be a bit of truth in both. Anyway carry on the good work I am appreciating all this greatly.
Thankyou
John |
Phi_spiral
Member
Post Number: 426
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 07:57 pm: |
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Hi David
No, I’m not crazy. I am only passionately curious. If there was a metaphorical explanation then I wanted to explore it because I like to look at all sides of an issue. You see wisdom to me is something gained through experience coupled with contemplation and knowledge. To simply eat the fruit from a tree and then become wise is completely foreign to my understanding of the spiritual lessons of how a person evolves. And if it only had a stimulating affect to the consciousness, then I think the name is a misnomer and misleading for surely you would still have to go through the other steps to gain actual wisdom albeit you may be temporarily at an advantage. So, I still intend to ask Billy for more information about this tree in the next round.
Regards
Bob |
Jbarreto
Member
Post Number: 26
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 08:00 pm: |
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OOPs a small fixing...
Dear Moderator(s),
Correction made shortly after I had posted it please use this one instead moderator. Sorry for this.
Dear Members and dearest Scott, and whoever it may concern
Mainly to Mr. Bob Phi_spiral,
869. Also aber sah ich dort den Baum der Weisheit, behangen mit grossen und süssen und wohlschmeckenden Früchten, die jenen Menschen, die von dem essend sind, grosse Weisheit lehren.
869. Therefore thus I saw the Tree of Wisdom, decorated with large and sweet and tasty fruits, which teaches great Wisdom to those human who are eating them. (Transl. by JBS)
Scott, patience has a limit and unfortunately I have lost mine four or three years ago because of persons like this Mr. Bob aka Phi_spiral which does not pay attention when I - over and over again - am just trying to WARN HIM and of you visitors and members of this Forum that Bob is insistingly putting FALSE WORDS into the mouth of Herr Billy Meier and no one of you also is paying any attention to this here because it seems you guys are completely unaware the so many other writings written by Herr Billy.
What happens is that Mr. Bob aka Phi_spiral does not listen/read it at all when I say/write –in truth – in honesty that EDWARD BILLY MEIER has ALREADY WRITTEN many many times about THE TRUE EXISTENCE OF A TREE in the ancient past of Earth and that this tree DRIED OUT dwindled and died because it was only a single PLANT and if am not wrong there was ONLY a FEMALE plant – a plant NOT A METHAPHOR as this person is trying to force into the visitors of this Forum to swallow his metaphorical conjectures.
I also posted here above a link for people to download a book written (title is SAMAANA)which was written by Hans Lanzendorfer where he also EXPLAINS ABOUT THE EXISTENCE of the ANCIENT TREE OF LIFE/WISDOM but it seems that I am speaking to the wind and nobody cares/cared to download it or because there is no interest at all or because only a very few of you are able to read and understand a minimum of German language which is really true and which it took me 5 years to start to understand it better in self-teaching manner.
Besides yes I DO HAVE patience yes dear Scott otherwise I would not do what I do when I go to bed when the sun is almost rising (yes I have a job too like anybody else) because when I look outside through the window the day/night is becoming clear/light because I´ve spent all the night looking for word after word in german language in order not to write misguiding and wrong things/thinkings in regards to the Truth as it is taught by the True Prophet of New Age Eduard Albert Meier.
Thus, as an example of my patience with these things I decided to RE-TRANSLATE all the passages which Mr. Bob Phi_spiral (which I cannot type down what I think about him but there is nobody there in this world or in any other place in this Universe who is able to forbid me to think INSIDE my mind what I really think of this person trying to distort the things which are written in the Book OM and who is not listening to me I say that Billy Meier as already written/explained about the TRUE EXISTENCE of this tree and I insist on it and will insist on until this Mr. Bon understand it once and for all.
Here all of you have a most faithful translation of the same passages from the Book OM Kanon 31 which were also translated in a raw manner by Mr. Bob Phi_spiral at the posting number This translation of mine is a response to the following previous posting above:
Phi_spiral
Member
Post Number: 425
Registered: 03-2007
Now please do read if you will my translations below and compare it to those excerpts translated by Mr. Bob Phi_spiral.
Please note that my translations are accompanied by my initials exactly like this ==>>(Transl. by JBS) in order not to create confusion with those made in a raw manner by Mr. Bob Phi_spiral.
Therefore please do ready it carefully then.
Excerpt from the Book OM
Passages taken from page 155 of the Book of the Books the Book OM and translated by José Barreto Silva.
Friday, 20 March 2009 - 23:28:31 PM
True words from Henok
864. Alsbald sah ich sieben Berge, und die waren da voll von köstlichen Nardegewächsen und wohlriechenden Bäumen, also ward da aber viel an Zimt und Pfeffer.
864. Immediately I saw seven mountains and which were there full of delightful Nard plants and of fragrant trees, therefore at there were however much cinnamon and pepper. (Transl. by JBS)
865. Und ich ging weiter zu den sieben Bergen, und alsbald schritt ich hinweg über deren Scheitel, fern hin gen Osten, und in Begleitung der flammenden Wächter der Arahat Athersata, die mir da nicht wichen von meiner Seite.
865. And I went further onto the seven mountains and I forthwith proceeded over the peak, away, far there toward the east and in the company of the flaming guardians of Arahat Athersata, who did not give way from my side there. (Transl. by JBS)
866. Und weiterhin zogen wir gen Osten, weithin über das erythräische Meer, hoch hinweg über den Ort Zutuel, bis hin zum Zweistromland bei Uruk Gart, im Königreich von Gjlgamesch.
866. And we moved further toward the east, to a long distance over the Sea of Eritrea, highly away, above the place Zutuel, until the land between the rivers* near the Garden of Uruk, in the kingdom of Gilgamesh. (Transl. by JBS)
Note by translator José Barreto Mr. Bob Spiral Zweistromland is another name for Mesopotamia in German language for your information.
867. Da aber führeten mich die Wächter zurück in die Zeit und in den Garten der Gerechtigkeit, wo ich erblickete bunte Fülle von Bäumen und Pflanzen und Blumen.
867. There however the guardians lead me back in the time, into the Gardens of the Righteousness, where I saw a colourful abundance of plants and flowers. (Transl. by JBS)
868. Und gar viele waren dort, Bäume und Pflanzen und Blumen, grosse und kleine, die dort wachsen, wohlduftend, sehr schön und herrlich.
868. And very many were there, trees and plants and flowers, which grows there, small and big ones, nice-smellingly, very beautiful and marvellously. (Transl. by JBS)
869. Also aber sah ich dort den Baum der Weisheit, behangen mit grossen und süssen und wohlschmeckenden Früchten, die jenen Menschen, die von dem essend sind, grosse Weisheit lehren.
869. Therefore thus I saw the Tree of Wisdom, decorated with large and sweet and tasty fruits, which teaches great Wisdom to those human who are eating them. (Transl. by JBS)
870. Und der Baum der Weisheit gleichet dem Johannisbrotbaum, und seine Frucht ist, wie die Weintraube sehr gut.
870. And the Tree of Wisdom resembles the carob tree, and its fruit, like the bunch of grapes, very good. (Transl. by JBS)
Und der Baum der Weisheit gleichet dem Johannisbrotbaum
\i...resembles the carob tree, and its fruit}
871. Der Duft des Baumes aber betöret und verbreitet sich und dringet sehr weit, und also sagte ich: "Gar schön ist dieser Baum, und wie schön und ergötzlich ist sein Anblick, und wohlriechend seine Früchte."
871. The fragrance of the tree, however, is beguiling and spreads and penetrates very far, and therefore I said: "This tree is really beautiful, and how beautiful and delightful is its sight, and pleasant-smelling its fruits . (Transl. by JBS)
872. Und der flammende Wächter Rufael antwortete und sagte zu mir: "Siehe, Henok, dies ist der Baum der Weisheit, von dem schon deine Vorfahren gegessen haben, so sie Erkenntnis der Weisheit fanden und sie ihre Augen öffneten.
872. And the flaming guardian Rufael answered and said to me: "Look Henok, this is the Tree of Wisdom, from which already your ancestors have eaten, so they found cognition of Wisdom and they opened their eyes. (Transl. by JBS)
873. Der Baum dieser Art stehet aber nur hier und einmal auf der Erde, so er nirgendswo mehr wachset an einem anderen Orte.
873. The tree of this kind stands however only here and once on the Earth, so it grows nowhere else at any other place. (Transl. by JBS)
874. Also aber ist er auch nicht ein Geschöpf der Erde, sondern ein Fremdling hier auf dieser Welt, denn er ist weit hergebracht von einer fernen Welt im Universum und also gepflanzet hier durch die Söhne und Töchter der Himmel.
874. Therefore, however, it is not a creation of the Earth, but a stranger here in this world, because it is brought here from a distant world far away in the Universe and therefore planted here by the sons and daughters of the heavens. (Transl. by JBS)
875. Um den Menschen Weisheit zu geben.
875. In order to give wisdom to the humankind. (Transl. by JBS)
875. Um den Menschen Weisheit zu geben.
876. In order to give life to the humankind. (Transl. by JBS)
877. Und um den Menschen das SEIN zu geben.
877. In order to give the Being to the human beings. (Transl. by JBS)
878. Und es lebet der Baum in Schönheit und Pracht und traget Früchte für siebenhundert Jahre, alsdann er verdorret und absterbet ohne fruchtbare Samen, weilen er eingeschlechtlich ist und keine Befruchtung findet durch seinesgleichen, also ihm keine Nachkommen gegeben sind.
878. And the tree lived in beauty and splendour and bore fruits for seven hundred years, then it withers and dies without fertile seeds, it is unisexual and finds no fertilisation through its own kind, therefore no descendants are given. (Transl. by JBS)
879. Wahrlich, also ist dies der Baum der Weisheit und der Baum des Lebens im Garten der Gerechtigkeit, dessen Geheimnis aber die Menschenkinder der Erde nicht kennen, deroweilen sie ihn aber nennen als Baum des Lebens im Paradiese.
879. Truly, therefore this is the Tree of Wisdom and the Tree of Life in the Garden of Righteousness, whose secret the human beings of the Earth do not know the secret, meanwhile they however name it as Tree of Life in the paradise. (Transl. by JBS)
880. Es ist das Geheimnis aber vom Baume der Weisheit, dass seine Frucht berget einen Stoff, der da erweitert das Bewusstsein des Menschen, wenn er esset davon, so er grosse Erkenntnisse der Weisheit erlanget, gleichsam dem ist mit allerlei Pflanzen der Erde.
880. It is the secret, however, from the Tree of Wisdom, that its fruit holds a substance, which there expands the consciousness of the human being, when he/she eats of it, thus attaining great findings of Wisdom, just as it is with various kinds of plants of the Earth. (Transl. by JBS)
Salome,
José Barreto Silva
Brazil
Friday, 20 March 2009 - 23:28:31 PM
P.S Maybe Christian Frehner could point the Truth to Mr. Bob aka Phi_spiral by stating to him in some few words here that the TREE WAS FOR REAL and not a metaphor/conjecture as it is being put by Bob aka Phi_spiral because there are persons trying to transform the Book of OM once again in the falsified Book of Enoch full of lies and metaphorical conjectures. So it is.
Hi Jose, I have asked Christian about this, I will post his response when I hear from him.-Thank you for your efforts-Scott 
Earthling your jokes are so funny that I went to sleep so tired I became of reading your jokes and by not thinking about your empty jokes...maybe there is a rotten egg white inside your own head you funny one??.
That which glitters is born for the moment;
The genuine remains intact for future days.
von Goethe
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Jbarreto
Member
Post Number: 26
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 08:39 pm: |
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Hi Scott,
You are not wrong not at all about the Tree not wrong indeed.
Hi there Borthwey,
Member
Post Number: 85
Registered: 09-2007
Thank you for the link where the face of this monster is well depicted. I will spread the link to some friends to spread it even further in portuguese.
This creature in question - The Ratzzi - with the head wrapped in a condom should read the Book Om to learn what happens with creatures such like him a sea of darkness...is awaiting.
I much appreciated the picture of the creature very well done the author deserves an Oscar for that image of this creature. I use the designation "creature" because I do not have a better definition to him and I cannot type in full letter what this creature on your Post Number: 85 really is in truth.
Please read this below to learn a little bit about other monsters in Brazil who follow the creature Ratzzi with the condom head above:
Article originally published on the website of the Brazilian Newspaper JORNAL DO BRASIL.
STATE OF PERNAMBUCO - BRAZIL:
Source Jornal do Brasil Online:
http://jbonline.terra.com.br/nextra/2009/02/28/e280217607.asp
Nine years-old pregnant girl will have the gestation interrupted.
(Jornal do Brasil Online)
Sunday, 28th February, 2009 18:12
PERNAMBUCO - In Recife city, the nine years-old girl pregnant of twins of approximately four months - who supposedly was raped by her stepfather - will have the gestation interrupted.
She is interned at the Instituto Materno Infantil (Infantile Maternal Institute) of Pernambuco (Imip).
The interruption was requested by the family, since in Brazil the law allows the procedure in situations of risk for the mother´s life or in the case of rape.
The sister, a 14 years old girl, who is handicapped, would also have been sexually abused by the stepfather, which was sent to the Prison of Pesqueira.
Article originally published on the website of the Brazilian Newspaper O ESTADO DE SÃO PAULO.
The Church excommunicates the doctors involved in the raped girl's abortion.
http://www.estadao.com.br/noticias/vidae,igreja-excommunicate-involve-in-abortion-of-girl-estuprada,333981,0.htm
Thursday, March 5, 2009, 13:42
The Minister of Health, José Gomes Temporão, says that the decision of the Church was 'radical' and 'inadequate'
Agency Brazil
BRASÍLIA - The medical persons involved in the process of a 9 year-old girl's abortion that was raped were excommunicated by the archbishop of Olinda and of Recife, Dom José Cardoso Sobrinho. In accordance with the police, the child's stepfather already admitted that he abused the girl.
Brazilian Archbishop José Cardoso Sobrinho - this is a real/true photo of him.
Brazilian Archbishop José Cardoso Sobrinho
The decision of the Church was criticized by the Minister of Health, José Gomes Temporão.
The archbishop condemned the responsibles for the abortion and he told to the Jornal Hoje (Today Newspaper) that "the ends does not justify the means". This is the principle , the moral doctrine of the Church. The adults, those who have approved it and those who accomplished that abortion, became liable to the excommunication."
For the minister, the decision was "radical" and "inadequate". The Brazilian law is very clear: the interruption of the pregnancy is authorized in the case of rape or in the case of risk life of the pregnant woman. The rest, is opinion of the Church.
It deals with a child and, from the biological point of view, I do not believe that she had conditions of conducting the gestation of twins until the end", he said, while participating of an interview to the radio stations during the program Good Morning, Minister. I am "shocked", he affirmed.
The girl was pregnant of twins and, in accordance with the doctors, if the pregnancy was continued forward, she would run risk of life.
On Tuesday night, the girl was interned and she received medicines to interrupt the pregnancy.
When justifying his decision, Dom José Cardoso Sobrinho said that, to the eyes of the Church, the abortion is a crime and that the men's law is not above the laws of God.
For Minister Temporão, the act of excommunication of the involved in the abortion is a nonsense before that which happened to the child, a victim of rape by the stepfather.
I was shocked with the two facts: with what has happened with the girl and with the position of that religious person that, mistakenly, while saying that he defends a life, he puts in risk another one so important life."
The Minister of the Environment, Carlos Minc, who was beside Temporão when he was pronouncing himself also did his comments: I want to speak as a citizen: I am very disgusted.
That girl was raped; she already had a big trauma. The Church, instead of helping, created one more question. And soon he concluded, It is the criminalization of the victim.
(by Lígia Formenti, of the newspaper O Estado de São Paulo)
All the texts were faithfully translated from the original article in Portuguese language into English language and into the German language by José Barreto Silva - Brazil - Saturday, March 07, 2009 13:05:54
Sent to FIGU via CF in german also.
José Barreto Silva.
That which glitters is born for the moment;
The genuine remains intact for future days.
von Goethe
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