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Archive through September 12, 2009

Discussionboard of FIGU » The Spiritual Teaching » Reincarnation, Death and the Storage Banks » Archive through September 12, 2009 « Previous Next »

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Edward
Member

Post Number: 1468
Registered: 05-2002
Posted on Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 01:32 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi All....


You all have some very good insight to the matter, which I would agree with.

And of course, the child at the age of 3-5 years old is not yet 'contaminated'
by our Earthly environment and all concerning, which may play part...I would
think. The child still manifesting in his/her - purity -. And as absorbing and
consuming the daily life gradually, he/she slowly...distance him/her-self from
the previous impulses, mentioned of the previous life time/events. And has
now, adapted him/her-self, to their new environment and new life to be and
Vibration.

But in general, the child to be, is composed of a NEW personality, of course.

And through his/her life time additionally 'forming' the personality with new
features, qualities and traits, skills, etc.,: Perfecting (OR even
degrading!), thus, STILL forming the personality as he/she evolves in this
life time, to be...as will be the case in even, their new incarnations to
come, throughout their existence.


Edward.
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Ramirez
Member

Post Number: 266
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 04:31 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Chris.

Some months back David (Borthwey) & I were having an exchange about this subject of spirits in the wild or wherever and came to no conclusion.

In one of the contact notes (somewhere on a disk) with Semjase Billy is having a conversation about spirits and asks her if it's possible to contact them to which surprisingly Semjase affirms yes but states that they are no wiser than they were during life which indicates somewhere exist spirits able to be contacted who have not processed and disolved. Then we might assume if persons can contact them they in turn can contact persons .... maybe.

So we were left with the question ..... where is this place where such spirits exist and what exactly is the nature or circumstances of their existence.
Here probably catholics would say purgatory where all the unworthy heathens, unbelievers and other sundry non members to the true faith will end up unless they convert .... or pay for an indulgence.
You off course know that along with burning witches the catholic holy papas had a racket going where they were selling get out of hell and purgatory promisory notes.

Off course this then brings up the question about mediums and channeling ..... where exactly is all that stuff coming from ?
Of the various channelings some of the most interesting ones are presently "Bashar" and way back in the 60-70s the case of Jane Roberts and "Seth".
If you care to examine the Seth material (plenty on Youtube) it's amazing how accurate much of it is except for details about Jesus and his death.
So clearly Jane Roberts was obtaining vast amounts of accurate data from .... somewhere and someone - something and if you watch her trance videos it appears she is not faking.
Also it's obviously not Ashtar Sheran or something of that order working through telepathic hypnosis though with some individuals this did happen.

Personally I dont know the answers but am very interested and hope that whoever wishes to contribute wont abandon the discussion till we get to the bottom of this issue.
Cheers.
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Redbeard
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Post Number: 125
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 07:32 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Greetings,

I just wanted to share something that happened to me on numerous occasions, at least 3-4 times that I remember, when I was between 3-5 yrs. old. When I was falling asleep and sometimes waking, I would be in a somewhat half awake state but mostly conscious, and as I lay there I had an awareness of my body being larger or swelled up.
My legs and arms mostly but there was physical sensation or nerve type feeling of my legs and arms and fingers, being expanded to twice or three times normal size.

It wasn't a willful attempt to make it happen that I remember, more like an observation with wondering in my mind. I wasn't afraid and it happened enough that I would sort of just sit back and watch and wonder.

Quite strange to recall it so clearly even now. I know that I wasn't yet 5 because I turned 5 after we had moved to a different house.

What do you think?
Peace, Matthew Beattie
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Redbeard
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Post Number: 126
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 07:43 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I also wanted to mention a story that I heard from a friend that told me of someone that he knew that for some reason was in a comma and was not expected to live. There were brain scans done that indicated that he showed little or no hope of recovery. Well as it happens sometimes where the carcass is so are the vultures. Many of the relatives came to see this man at his death bed and proceeded to haggle and discuss at his bed side which of his possessions that they deserved to have with great emotion and detail.

As it ended up this man recovered and informed his family that he heard everything that was said while he lay there. It may have little to do with the consciousness after death discussion but it does hang around the same neighborhood.
Peace, Matthew Beattie
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Memo00
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Post Number: 382
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 08:16 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi again Adrian

"How can one see with the consciousness?"

-I don´t know the "technical" information if you want to know exactly how this happens then it may be a good idea to ask Billy.

"Also how can you even know, or tell yourself you are in that deep meditative state?"

-Well if you want to know then practice meditation, as you "practice" more and more then you will see progress, and of course you can know because you are conscious, just that you don´t think in anything and feel nothing with the physical senses.

"How can your consciousness work after the process of death?"

-As mentioned above the brain can continue to work in a subtle way for some time even if its not noticed, "real death" will happen when the spirit leaves the body, what is called the moment of death or whatever by our doctors is not necessarily the moment of real death, once it really happens then you will not experience anything because there will not be an "I" or consciousness or anything to perceive, think, feel or whatever.

"...Also I know when I am really tired and have a good deep sleep. I could just wake up 10 hours later and for me it would seem like a few minutes. So how can someone be conscious right after death even for 1 millisecond? "

One can be perfectly conscious while sleeping and control your own dreams for example (one only needs much much practice, you can discuss endlessly this or that or you can try meditation or dream control and discover the truth in yourself by yourself)

While alive one never is completely unconscious because you are always perceiving subconsciously.

take care
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Cpl
Member

Post Number: 478
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 09:10 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Ramirez,

"In one of the contact notes (somewhere on a disk) with Semjase Billy is having a conversation about spirits and asks her if it's possible to contact them to which surprisingly Semjase affirms yes but states that they are no wiser than they were during life which indicates somewhere exist spirits able to be contacted who have not processed and disolved. Then we might assume if persons can contact them they in turn can contact persons .... maybe."

Yes, I am familiar with the conversation. Semjase and the Ps can indeed contact the spirits, but they, the spirits, are not inclined to communicate. Because I cannot quote the pages and passages I'll summarize in my own words: The spirit is busy absorbing into its essential nature (we might say integrating) all the useful experiences of the lifetime just finished. It does not have an active disposition, that, is the function of the human individual. The human individual learns throughout its active lifetime; the spirit absorbs that and then goes, via a new incarnation, where it can best then develop anew in the future. This I'm sure you know.

The P have told us that the spirit does not actually actively contact anyone; it just does not have that active disposition or interest. That's not what it does. So while it is possible for advanced people like the P to "contact" the spirit, it will be a very unrewarding experience as the spirit has virtually nothing to say, ever. The spirit then, according to the P, does not contact people -- by talking to them, giving them articulated thoughts etc. It seems what it does do is provide fodder for the individual through feelings, intuitions, gut feelings, spiritual impulses and the like, and these could potentially guide the individual through its life. These can come through more potently the more open to such the person or individual is.

If I remember correctly, Billy has said that mediums and those who accurately tell of experiences supposedly from the dead are instead picking up from the storage banks and/or even via the human cells and/or DNA (which have volumes of information present) of the person present who has such a link with the departed (is a biological relation).

I am very familiar with Bashar and Seth. Read Seth decades ago and have met Darryl Ankar personally.

The difficulty with explaining 100% accurately what is going on with any particular channel, including these two, is that the possibilities are almost endless, and combinations thereof. Both of these are essentially artist types (Roberts was living with a painter and I understand Ankar was a designer before his channeling took off) who function very much from the right brain and imagination. That is not to say there is no accuracy whatsoever in anything that they present. If nothing else they have inspired a great many people to look further and more deeply at life.

There is, however, always the necessary sorting of the wheat from the chaff, and the many unanswered questions as to what is really going on. Well, among the infinite variations and combinations possible, it can come from their imaginations, things inspired or imagined from what they have read (Ankar is well read), their own thoughts and ideas, or the thoughts and ideas of others expounded upon but not cited. Often they (any channel) may not know that it is their imagination rather than accurate intuition that is at work if that is the case. This is a common problem for most channels, of course, though they generally just cannot realize it. It is also possible that they are picking up some feelings, intuitions or even impulses from the spirit or storage banks too and it is all presented together in the channeled stew.

When people do this and then imagine or make a name or entity for the channeling they have IMO essentially gone into the realm of schizophrenia. They've then created an unreal entity that they then communicate with. I leave it with you to decide for yourself whether or not you think either Roberts or Ankar went that far.

Did Roberts really at some time in her life receive something from a "we form" or some such? I personally doubt it, but who can prove it, one way or another? I gained much from her books at the time.

While it is obviously best to know if someone is deluded, schizophrenic, or not, the self-admittedly insane or mad Edvard Munch inspired many artists and others with his art which shows that even an insane human can arguably make a useful contribution to society -- not, of course, that we should think to emulate such madness.
Chris

Use to the full both your heart and your head; and never lose either.
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Borthwey
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Post Number: 127
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 09:15 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi all.

I also think that I've had out of body experiences when I was younger.

At least, I see them as that now.

At night (during sleep) I was wandering around the outside of my house and I remember how it felt to be able to move around and to make myself go higher. I was convinced that from that moment on, I would always be able to levitate, since I already knew how to do it.

There were tall pine trees next to my house and I remember that I would try to go as high as I could but I couldn't get much higher than a certain distance above the tree tops.

This happened in other nights when I was more confident in my levitation skills but still couldn't get past a certain height. I have some visual memories of what I could see there.

The fact that I still remember this (and as I write, I am also recollecting what I was thinking, experiencing and feeling then) can mean that my consciousness was actually outside.

In that case anyway and assuming that I was projecting my consciousness, I was interacting with a physical environment, and to do something like that one probably needs a physical, living body. Therefore, it's not akin to whatever happens after death.
David
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Borthwey
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Post Number: 128
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 09:21 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I can't give exact references right now, but I think that in BEAM's materials, the consciousness is described as being "processing itself" after death.

It's what the consciousness is doing, not the spirit.

It's not specified what this "processing" consists of. It could be... anything. It could involve having recollections of the last life and of the previous ones, for example.

I also understand that the outcome of this processing is of benefit to the spirit. It's what makes it grow.

After the next life, the same process will happen, this time to the new consciousness that will be formed in the meantime.

During the "processing" a neutrality or balance is being reached, after which the consciousness ceases to be. But this disappearance, could as well be described as being a merging with the purely unconscious realm of the spirit.

What actually happens and what the spirit is is perhaps something that can be described in different and maybe even seemingly contradictory ways, without any of the descriptions ever being totally accurate.
David
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Cpl
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Post Number: 479
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 09:51 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Robyn,

“Chris, I think you will find that Billy said the consciousness expands, outwards, rather than leaves the body. It cannot logically leave, as it is not an independent item.“

I think we’re on semantics here, no? Billy mentions consciousness "expands" as it "develops". Consciousness travel is something else. Billy mentioned this, I think, in reply to a statement or question about someone’s spirit traveling outside their body and going somewhere, and Billy commented that it is not the spirit which travels outside the body but the consciousness, adding that the spirit cannot travel outside the body or the person would die.

This means the consciousness leaves the body in one place while it goes to another. Of course, there is still the connection to the body, what has been called the silver cord or line (don’t recall if Billy confirmed that term but have read him somewhere confirming the concept). So, consciousness does not leave the body absolutely, as in death but can travel elsewhere from where the body is.

“The consciousness arises from the brain processes, therefore, if the brain is unconscious or dead, then the consciousness can no longer 'arise'.”

Yes. There can be no more “arising” or new consciousness forming, after death but that which has been formed and is in existence or has been in existence clearly, according to Billy’s material, seems to survive death while it is absorbed into the spirit over time. It doesn’t grow anymore after death, but is absorbed into the spirit over time and the spirit then grows accordingly.

“The explanation for being able to view oneself when apparently dead, is just that -- one appears dead to the clinicians, however, there could still be undetectable life activity happening, and whilst that is there, there is consciousness.
Being declared dead, is no guarantee that death has indeed occurred, and the spirit does not leave the body, with the consciousness and all it holds for processing (via the CCB), until all organ activity has ceased.”


Agree completely. Not sure if you are discussing something with me there.
Chris

Use to the full both your heart and your head; and never lose either.
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Adysor
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Post Number: 148
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 10:10 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Memo00,

"One can be perfectly conscious while sleeping"

Have you ever been perfectly conscious while sleeping? And what good would that bring you? Imagine sleeping for 10 hours or more while being aware all that time that you are actually sleeping.....it must be really long. And then would you still call that sleeping? I would call it laying down and closing the eyes.


"While alive one never is completely unconscious because you are always perceiving subconsciously."

I doubt subconsciousness even exists. Even if that's so, the information in the "subconscious" may never be recovered.

"Also how can you even know, or tell yourself you are in that deep meditative state?"

This question was addressed to you. Assuming that the deep meditative state actually exists, I would say that because I have this idea of a deep meditative state in my mind, I might stumble into any kind of state which I can easily refer as the deep meditative state because I don't really know what that meditative state really is. It's just an expectation in my head, an idea. That's why I say that you probably have to convince yourself to imagine that you will be in a meditative state.
Adrian.
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Scott
Moderator

Post Number: 1848
Registered: 12-1999
Posted on Friday, September 11, 2009 - 02:37 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Chris,

If I remember, the booklet "The Occult Forces and Meditation" have mention of Jane Roberts. Seth according to the booklet was actually a secondary personality created by Jame Robert's subconscious. So I guess in some sense you are right in that it could be a form of schizophrenia.

Regards
Scott
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Ramirez
Member

Post Number: 268
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Friday, September 11, 2009 - 04:45 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Scott.

Is that booklet "The Occult Forces and Meditation" available in English ? Would be worth a read.

Getting back to Jane Roberts and Seth.

From my cursory reading of the Seth material there seems a huge amount in strong agreement with the basics as described by Billy so where did Jane Roberts obtain so much information before Billy published anything of that nature ?

What seems obvious is that the persona "Seth" appears to have available a very strong deep psychological profile analysis of Jane's subconscious and coming from a theoretical "outsider" this does lend some credence to Seth being a secondary personality ..... but Jane Roberts was not herself a psychologist of such an order as to be able to delve into her own mind as Seth does unless in past lives Jane was an exceptionally developed personality.
Off course this is speculation as no-one can prove yay or nay whether Seth's analysis or descriptions of Jane or her alledged past lives and personality are accurate.

Hi Chris.

Thankyou for the explanation which answers a lot of questions.
I guess it's difficult to draw the line at where schizophrenia kicks in though persons claiming to "vacate" themselves to allow an external something temporary posession is quite suspect.
Billy simply has access to the storage banks thereby obtaining information outright without the need for any intermediary as probably some others are able to though in a more limited extent.
However given todays skeptical society isn't it somewhat safer and acceptable to claim your a medium than declaring outright you have access to material in the storage banks .... it's all in the mind isn't it, even for Billy meaning he doesn't actually visit some repository and open filing cabinets or consult a computer index.
Mediums might be using so called channeling as a prop to make their information or message appear more palatable & legitimate to the audience just like religion does by throwing in a few holy relics, miracles and ancient texts to justify the story.

Who knows maybe Jane Roberts was involved in something like that and a pointer towards such a probablity is her quite incorrect description of Jesus final day .... no Talmud Jmannuel to refer to in the early 60s. So obviously Seth or whoever was throwing in a few left curves along with the accurate material.

Hi David.

About astral travel.
I was able to do this as a small child and the actual control was simply thinking a location or destination though this became quite scary when flying with the birds .... literally.
I limited myself to locations close to home that I was physically familiar with for fear of becoming lost & not able to return.
Staring down from a great height was exhilerating though at the same time crept in doubts from an emerging personality that falling from great heights presented considerable potential dangers. It was various fears which gradually brought an end to these adventures .... so you are not alone in your observations.
And off course there were no Rampa books or anything of that nature in those days.

Hi Redbeard.

"I remember, when I was between 3-5 yrs. old. When I was falling asleep and sometimes waking, I would be in a somewhat half awake state but mostly conscious, and as I lay there I had an awareness of my body being larger or swelled up.
My legs and arms mostly but there was physical sensation or nerve type feeling of my legs and arms and fingers, being expanded to twice or three times normal size."

That's exactly how I remember it ... the out of body experiences. I sorta imagined I must be like a floating baloon because I was feeling so swollen up it must be the gas making me rise.
Cheers.
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Memo00
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Post Number: 383
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Friday, September 11, 2009 - 08:54 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hi again Adrian

Sadly i think that it has been a waste of time to try to explain to you anything, basically i have no interest in endlessly arguing about this or that, you are free to think whatever you want of this.

Also you can continue to believe in anything that you want to (belief is a prison!), or you can experience the truth by yourself (meditation!), its up to you. Just remember that you like me and all of us here will die one day, and so it would be a shame if one day you are in bed, old and sick and realize that you are so close to death and you never took the time to.......

take care
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Michael_horn
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Post Number: 32
Registered: 07-2009
Posted on Friday, September 11, 2009 - 09:31 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In the late 1980s I attended a number of channelling events, which contributed quite a bit to my "career" in New Age comedy. I went to a number of Bashar events as well. When people have asked me about channeling, all I could say was that I found enough really valuable information to fill a shot glass...with room left over for an olympic-sized swimming pool.
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Scott
Moderator

Post Number: 1849
Registered: 12-1999
Posted on Friday, September 11, 2009 - 10:14 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ramirez,

Yes, the booklet is available in English.

Scott
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Adysor
Member

Post Number: 149
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Friday, September 11, 2009 - 12:42 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Memo00,


" Just remember that you like me and all of us here will die one day, and so it would be a shame if one day you are in bed, old and sick and realize that you are so close to death and you never took the time to....... "

You see, death comes to bring an end to all these ideas and concepts. The only thing that will die is the "me" and the "you" with all the memories that you hold dear; the body continues the process of life in one form or another(physical of course).

"Also you can continue to believe in anything that you want to (belief is a prison!)"

Belief is all that you have. That's why there are still people on this forum. How can you not have a belief? If that's true then you wouldn't believe anything. Not even Mr. Meier's ideas.

Someone wise said: "You can only trade one belief with another belief."
Adrian.
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Peter_brodowski
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Post Number: 493
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Friday, September 11, 2009 - 05:00 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hey there adrian or adysor or whatever you call yourself,
in my opinion, you are an ignorant person. let me share something with you...
i do not speak german, so in regards to meditation and conciousness excersizes and experiments, i have had to rely on what little english info there is on the subject provided by billy, and first and foremost, my common sense and ability to reason.
for the last 5 years i have been casually, on and off, dabbling in various excercizes that have produced some very apparent results.
i am saying this out of experience, direct application and it's inherent results.
in my experience, i have had it where as i dream, i will all of a sudden realize i am dreaming, at this point, i gain total control of where i go, what i do, what appears before me. usually it does not last long, but then again i have only just opened the door in that regard.
in regards to conciousness projection,
through my experience, i can report to you what goes on in this experience, as follows...
first, you will start to lose feeling of your body, or you will go "numb" for lack of a better term. that which you percieve with your eyes will not be what you see when you simply lay with your eyes closed, as this gradually changes the deeper you go into the meditative state.
in short, what you are doing is witnessing your body falling asleep, or going through the motions of what it does every night as you fall asleep. but through this excercize, you will stay awake. there is a point, i like to call the point of transition, where it becomes difficult to tell how much time has passed. during this period, you almost lose sense of the things around you and there is a darkness. so all though you are still aware, it is (best i can describe) akward. then you experience what would be termed a dream. but in this "dream" you are fully aware, and it is as if you just slipped into the dreamworld so to say.
in this state, i am not sure yet all the little fine points, but from my own experiences the following is obvious. there is a deeper sphere of conciousness that is a part of you that "navigates" you through this state, and i assume with practice one will grasp those fine details. you control your direction, speed etc by sheer thought force/focus/will. there is a sensing of momentum, and or force from an impact, but there is no pain or things like that.
when you awake from the state, you can actually witness the "dream" fade away, while your physical surroundings become apparent.
upon my first time conciously pulling of this ability, when i was coming out of the state, i was confused and worried for a moment, because my surroundings where abruptly changed and i thought i may have accidentally teleported myself somewhere, but as i waited, before my eyes, i could see the ceiling in my bedroom materialize. later that night i would experience an interesting phenomenon where my body was asleep, but i became aware, and it was as if i was awake in my bed, but it was as if in a dream, and i could tell that my body was still sleeping, so by using sheer force, i moved my arm, or at one point tried to rise from my bed. needless to say, if you are serious about exploring this, you will be amazed and astonished, and if you have any admiration for the beauty of the universe and your mind, wou will find much use and value in it.
from the point where i laid down, to the point where i snapped back into wakeful conciousness, spanned no more than 4-7 minutes.
needless to say, there are things to be weary of if experimenting in this field.
so i am living proof that deeper states of conciousness exist, meditative states etc.
you perhaps are simply to limited in reason to comprehend. no offense.

sorry moderators if it was off topic, but i just wanted to share my experience because i felt it might be of some interest or help to some.
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Ramirez
Member

Post Number: 269
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Friday, September 11, 2009 - 08:35 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Scott.

We have a problem with that booklet.

At the Swiss Figu site it can be ordered for overseas distribution but in German only.

At the US Figu site it is available in English but only for mailing within USA .... so how am I to obtain one under those circumstances.
It's just plain silly to not have facilities available for shipping material overseas.


CPL. Chris.

After viewing the 3 part Jane Roberts interview plus listening to some actual taped recordings of her "channeling" sessions my firm conclusion is that Jane Roberts is not schizophrenic.
Also her husband seems an exceptionally stable, rational person of sound mind.
So there appears to be quite a mystery regarding the Seth case though it seems possible that Jane Roberts has an access to huge amounts of subconscious material which is then sorted and presented through an internal commentator speaking as the Seth voice. Essentially it appears that Jane's subconscious inner self has assembled an alternate personality voicing her desires, knowledge, frustrations and hopes ..... much in the same way that Billy does except Jane uses the prop of Seth.
If you examine the overall drift Seth is anti religious, anti big brother establishment, mystical in nature and has a unique rather dark sense of humor.
Cheers.
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Cpl
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Post Number: 481
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, September 11, 2009 - 09:19 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi All,

Contact Note 7 is not up on the futureofmankind website, but it cites Semjase talking to Meier about the spiritual realms and mediums and so is relevant to discussions here and the thread in general so I've typed it up and posted it below.

BTW earlier in the CN7 Semjase discusses the different colour races, the monkey evolving from the human, and former 50 cms humans up to the 12 meter-high giants, the "Goliaths" etc.

Ramirez, it also corrects, or fine tunes, this statement of mine above to you: "The P have told us that the spirit does not actually actively contact anyone." That may be usually the case, but certainly not always.

The relevant verses in Contact Note 7 and reproduced here are 166 - 210. Enjoy, and hopefully they will help all here as much as they helped Billy.

Meier: ...What about the spirit world and about the so-called tape recorder voices. Can you give me a thorough explanation?

Semjase: Not in the way you would want it, yet I can explain you something that you can transmit. There are unfortunately many things the human being is only allowed to know when he has become spiritually aware, and has developed his spiritual knowledge and spiritual wisdom sufficiently. Thus I have to keep silent about many things -- regrettably also with you. A "spirit world" as you call this, does not exist. There alone exists the finematerial worlds, in this respect. These are worlds which exist in other dimensions and which contain bodiless spirit forms. When a spirit leaves his frame (of flesh), he can not go just anywhere. He has to vivify a body again, or he goes into a finematerial world, a spirit-form-world thus, of which there are innumerable ones. There the spirit lives in an individual form for so long, until he returns again into a newly created guest-body. This means: each spirit has an especially tuned for him dwelling (body), in which he lives out his life in material form. One can observe over one whole main period this way, that the facial appearance of the guest bodies is nearly always much the same, and only changes very slowly, until a high spiritual level has been attained. At very low or very high spiritual position, the faces of all guest bodies (of a given spirit) begin to resemble one another. Now when a guest body has died, then the spirit vanishes and normally goes over into the finematerial world. There he also has to live through certain periods, until he can claim a new guest body. When the guest-frame is destroyed by force under some circumstances, it can happen, that the spirit quickly finds himself another guest body and inhabits it. He can even penetrate into frames which are already inhabited under such circumstances. This results in two heavily confused spirits in one single guest body. The standard process though, is the spirit going into the finematerial world, and he studiously remains there during this period.

Meier: ...can we have any connections to this finematerial world?

Semjase: Surely, but it is not advisable. The spirits of the finematerial world are no more advanced in their knowledge than they were in their material lives. Untruths and quite conscious misleadings are characteristic of them. Because of this, the material living ones should not make contact with them., because they are denied a great deal. It would be better for the living ones to increase their knowledge by their own spiritual labour, than to want to take possession of it in this way, as they may simply be led astray. Of course there also exist spiritual forms who answer in sincere mind. But these are few and they live in the higher spheres, because they are spiritually more developed. Yet on the whole, there are only a few human beings who can make connection to the departed ones, as you call it. Although you have great spiritualistic circles on earth, they often are no more than deception. Many mediums are only good actors and indulge their actor's inclinations. On the other hand there also exist those mediums who pride themselves on great things, and who then in hypnotized state emulate these in all perfection, by which deceit again takes place. Their force of imagination often goes so far that they really call things of other human beings out of their past or future, and can even imitate their voices in all perfection. Then also there are these mediums, don't forget, who are utilized by any one or other spiritual creatures of other dimensions for a joke, or in an ill-intended manner. The real mediums are actually very few, and mainly they are fully unknown.

Meier: Then I have not been wrong. Yet now what about the "tape voices"?

Semjase: Here many factors come into play. Most cases of tape voices are quite evident to deduce on your known radio frequencies, and here radio amateurs often allow themselves to joke. On the other hand, many of those contacts are caused by communication means of cosmic travellers. Also the thoughts of human beings play an important role, and often intrude themselves as listenable voices -- and that not only on tape recorders -- but freely audible. Often a searcher for tape-voices unconsciously imitates a pleasing voice by his thoughts, and so transmits exactly the answer into the tape-recorder, which he wants to have or to hear.

Meier: But how is that possible?

Semjase: If I should explain this to you it would be very complicated and troublesome. But I can tell you, each sender is also a received, and reverse, and can catch-up the highest thought vibrations and give them further to a receiver.

Meier: Then tape-recorder voices are truly no phenomena of a spirit world?

Semjase: That's not completely right, as, like real mediums exist who have connections with other dimensions, so do also exist real tape-voices, which indeed come from spiritual beings of different finematerial worlds. But such are few, like real mediums. In this field unfortunately is much deceit and quackery, which fact is added to the love for boasting of the human being.

Meier: Thank you, Semjase. You have really helped me very much.
Chris

Use to the full both your heart and your head; and never lose either.
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Cpl
Member

Post Number: 482
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, September 11, 2009 - 09:50 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi again All,

Contact Note 6 also has two paragraphs by Semjase from verses 17 - 26 covering lives cut short and possible reincarnation times. As this is also relevant to this discussion I've typed them up below. The Creational law time of 1.52 times the lifetime that we currently seem to be cheating ourselves out of by being grossly overpopulated is not mentioned:

Semjase: ....Spirit life is sexless, because sex is specifically characteristic of organic life to assure propagation (of the species). Spiritual life, through organic form, observes the laws of rebirth (or cycles) to assure development in both directions. Thus each form of life must pass through seven destined main periods, including their seven sub-levels. For fixed position organic creatures, the periodic sequence of the seasons is decisive, while for spirit-conditioned creatures (such as human beings), the periods are irregular and often rated differently individually. They are not fixed in a destined rhythm like plants, etc. A re-birth of a spirit-conditioned human being can take place after the death of his physical body, in seconds, decades, thousands of years or millenniums. When a spirit-conditioned life is interrupted, then it is disadvantaged for that. This is because it cannot accomplish its sub-period goal and must repeat as necessary to achieve the goal of the period.

Meier: Does this mean the life must be lived a second time?

Semjase: In a certain way, yes; at least the part that was lost. Accordingly, the next life may be shorter, too, because it may only be making good "missed" lessons to finish the goal of the period.

CN 6 goes on to list the seven main periods of life from Primary (the idiotic level) up to Creation the 7th. It also lists their subdivisions.
The 7th phase of the 6th period (Spiritual Life) is when the passing over into Creation consciousness occurs.
Earth generally is apparently at the end of the 2nd and beginning of the 3rd periods.
Chris

Use to the full both your heart and your head; and never lose either.
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Indi
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Post Number: 340
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Friday, September 11, 2009 - 10:39 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

here is an exerpt from that booklet that mentions Jane Roberts and Seth:
From 'An important word concerning the
occult forces and meditation.'


"....It is also possible, and frequently the case, that people create entities within themselves through their unconscious occult forces that communicate with them, speaking in voices of people who had passed away already months, years, even centuries or millennia ago, without the creators of those inner entities themselves ever having known the dead persons. The reason that these voices can come into existence is based simply on the fact that all humans generate a We-Form in an unconscious and spiritual bond that deposits its entire knowledge, as a unit and individually, in the ethereal record files (Akashic Records) of the planet, from where impulses of knowledge (in this case as a voice) are withdrawn by the originator of the inner entities, allowing those to speak through the inner entity by which he is controlled and misled.

In very extreme cases, and this has been proven over thousands of years throughout the entire history of humanity, it happens again and again that humans create entities within themselves through their own occult powers, which then control their originator to the last fiber of his own ego, holding unlimited power over him to the point that, slowly but surely, the physical body of the entity-creator eventually collapses and becomes destroyed.

This can occur especially when a person creates several entities within himself which then alternately rule him or mutually destructively influence one another and destroy the person in the process.

What then are these entities the human being creates within himself through occult forces? Very simply it is this. Such an "entity" is a form of second ego, i.e., a second " I ". This can develop so powerfully in the originating person, however, that it becomes independent and can, therefore, arbitrarily contact the ego of the originating person.

This independence and arbitrariness is based upon the fact, however, that the ego of the

created entity is manifested more powerfully than the ego of the originator. This means then, that through his own labile ego a person permits the second ego (entity), which he had created within himself, to take the lead, and plays a servile role to it.

Thus, it can happen that the second ego, a created inner entity, totally takes over the human being who had created this entity within himself, no matter what the motives may have been for creating it. One of the most frequent reasons for the creation of such inner entities can be found in inferiority complexes of the creating persons.

Equally frequent are those reasons which are based on religious mania and fanaticism. The more of such inner entities or egos a labile human being creates within himself, the more dangerous it becomes for him. He quickly loses control over himself and along with it also over the inner entities, which begin to dominate him. ln simpler cases the fact still becomes evident that the originator of such inner entities can speak to them and receive answers from them, frequently resulting in lively communication. To link with the inner entity, individuals who carry entities think up conditions of trance or some movements and contortions, exercises of concentration, batting of their eyes, or whatever it takes to bring about the connection. This type of entity-carrier is then called a medium, contactee or channeler (as is the case with the American women Chris Griscom and Jane Roberts, author of SETH. Seth, by the way, was a fratricide, who killed his own brother to acquire the power for himself) by the faithful and mad esoterics and parapsychologists, totally ignorant of what the whole situation is all about. They do not have the faintest idea that these individuals are a type of human being with extremely labile egos, out of control with their own ego........"

Robyn
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Cpl
Member

Post Number: 484
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Saturday, September 12, 2009 - 12:14 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Ramirez,

IMO there are all shades of schizophrenia, from the mildest of tints to full on vivid hues. Most of us on this planet were brought up via religions to believe in beings that don't exist and to believe we were talking to them -- and we did so believe and talk. I think this may be one reason why the Ps think schizophrenia and madness is so rampant on this planet and why they regard religion as a disease. When you adopt a really rational and realistic approach to life and go up to someone speaking purely religiously they just seem completely off their rocker.

I know Roberts wasn't into religion, it's just disease and schizophrenia are so much a matter of degrees. I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

Also I hope my post didn't imply that I think artists are crazy; far from it. I regard myself as more artistic (often think I should have gone into fine art myself) than scientific, although I seem to have balanced (same amount of) left brain activity as right. As I said, I also got a lot out of the Seth material at the time.

Imagination too, IMO can be just as wonderful as it can be a curse. just depends how it is used.

Not sure what you mean " ...much in the same way that Billy does".

Have a great day,
Chris

Use to the full both your heart and your head; and never lose either.
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Adysor
Member

Post Number: 150
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Saturday, September 12, 2009 - 05:09 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Peter,

Thanks for sharing your experience... no offense taken.

I must say that this kind of physical experience has happened to me several times in my younger years and without any kind of practice. That would be that my body would go numb and I could control my dream for a few minutes. There is probably nothing special about this because it might as well come from my imagination.

This is absolutely and certainly no proof of deeper meditative state. No offense.

"you perhaps are simply to limited in reason to comprehend."

That's what you've been told to believe.

And even though let's say a deep meditative state does exist, why do you even need such a thing? You will probably discover this in your own way, totally different than what is said to be.
Adrian.

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