| Author | Message | ||
    Scott Moderator Post Number: 2987 Registered: 12-1999 |
Hello, Although this is not a FIGU link, the author of this article is a FIGU Core Group member. I found this article very well written and very much worth contemplating. All Too Often The Belief Of An Individual Is Incorporated Into The Spiritual Teaching | ||
Kenneth Member Post Number: 1084 Registered: 04-2013 |
Scott, Wow, “Many of our members are FIGU or Billy believers…” When you said that you found this article very well written and very much worth contemplating. In my opinion, that is an understatement. Thanks for sharing this article! Key statements that struck a chord with me: “…however the studying in the thought-feeling-based careful examination of the truth and its exploration is not taking place, but rather, one is in the same old rut of the trodden paths existing up until now: what is read is believed.” “The perspective of the spiritual teaching through the eyes of a believer does not achieve the true effect, which should be achieved from the study of the spiritual teaching, in order to become a free, independent, autonomous human being.” “Aside from the previously mentioned study and the analysis of the truth-exploration, also pertains the active application thereof…” “One who does not question that which is taught, and who practices the spiritual teaching just like saying a rosary, has surely not yet understood what really matters.” “…when the writings are studied repeatedly, again and again new aspects arise, because the human creative thinking simply cannot be inhibited and naturally allows new aspects to enter.” We all have maybe seen this first hand, unfortunately with family and other loved ones: “In recent times the religious belief is made modern and attractive for young people with music concerts combined with so called contemporary events, even though contentwise, the same old lies still exist that were preached in the Middle Ages.” “The belief can never be proven through actuality/reality because it is not a part of reality, rather, it is only a human pipe dream.” “In contrast to a belief, the knowledge-facts of the spiritual teaching can be actually understood through cause and effect…//…find and go their own way in life, according to one’s own abilities, free of domination by outside forces. Sincerely & Salome Kenneth | ||
Andrew_hua Member Post Number: 89 Registered: 12-2013 |
It's uncannily timely that this article has been presented to us in this forum now, especially since posts here lately have indicated a kind of indoctrination through or dogmatism toward the 'spiritual teaching', where personal beliefs and desires are stubbornly backed up or supported by citing something Meier has written or said, or discussed with the Plejaren, and whenever disagreements between forum members arise and criticisms are voiced, the one defending himself/herself simply states that the 'mission' for each individual after all is to 'find the truth', such that any speculative and - dare I say - delusional pursuit is ultimately justified, thus making it impossible to rebut. Meanwhile, we pat each other on the back for simply regurgitating information from various FIGU sources and using a kind of rhetoric that is simply an imitation of the discourse that Meier has with the Plejaren during his contacts. What good is it to begrudgingly make generalisations about the ignorance of mankind on Earth as if you are higher than those who are unaware of or are as yet unable to recognise the truth of the spiritual teaching and the bigger picture of our place in the universe? Of what benefit is it to be bitter about the shortcomings of our modern society by writing lengthy post-after-post amongst ourselves in this forum who are largely already aware of the direction that needs to be taken by all people of Earth? Although I have a sincere concern for the welfare of the long time forum member, Corey, I feel it was only a matter of time that his agenda came to a head; in particular the increasing saturation of his esoteric posts emphasising the grand significance of the '777', as well as his unrealistic and quite ignorant fantasy for a trilateral cooperation between the three current antagonistic superpowers, China, Russia and USA (granted, China and Russia are much closer than the USA is to either). It would be better to spend any spare time for self -improvement and -growth in order to be the best example of what it means to be a human being, in order to then impress this striving upon others, rather than coddling yourselves in this nest of a forum. Get out there and be useful - have a worthy effect on the world outside! | ||
Ilovebilly Member Post Number: 591 Registered: 04-2011 |
Gday Scott Thanks for that, every now and then some real gems get posted on the forum, thats gota be one of them also when reading i pause every paragraph and contemplate it, make sure i understood it ilovebilly Every Cloud Has A Silver Lining. Truly, I know that there is no resistance to my successes, also not in my thoughts and not in my imagination and also not in my feelings. 77 Being emotional is not logical but is temporary madness and you are either logical or mad not both, i am grateful for my emotions but need to control them. | ||
Msmichelle Member Post Number: 616 Registered: 02-2010 |
Andrew (regarding your latest post) nice to see you post something, however, as you know, Corey spoke of his challenges, yet, he is a knowledgeable man, who did his best to provide information he felt was beneficial. Yet, I agree, some of his posts were questionable, but why didn't you reach out to him and express your concerns? I enjoy being on the forum because I want information regarding upcoming books, contact notes, etc I agree we ought to "get out there and be useful", yet at the same time, we've "f*cked outselves" (literally)regarding the overpopulation crisis. The outside world is not listening to anyone except themselves. This forum offers me an escape from my everyday responsibilities, yet I know how to spend my time and efforts. Just like you, we all cannot "believe" this forum can change the outcome of what we're currently experiencing,(climate destruction, war, etc) but personally, the forum is like reading a book and getting into the characters, or like watching a TV program and rooting for a sport team to win. Sometimes, just interacting with "people" on this forum assist my consciousness and help me deal with people I face day to day. MsMichelle (sending peace and love to all) | ||
Ei21 Member Post Number: 5 Registered: 01-2020 |
I also read the document entitled in English: “All too often the Belief of an individual is incorporated into the Spiritual Teaching”. And it resonated with me because I saw myself in the writing. It is a gentle and comprehensively written piece from one who has lived through the realizations they are describing. I also came to a few of these hard to accept understandings about myself, this is why I am here on this forum. To give myself an avenue to be able to learn to express words and concepts without falling back on belief, and to gain more knowledge that helps me to explain my position not just say because I read it in the Meier Material. Its hard to come to these realizations of how certain actions or talkativeness, even meaning well, can have a negative effect on others. It is better to go through life, studying, reading the Spiritual Teaching , keeping it for myself and not trying to change the outside world in a way that it is not willing to change. I am learning slowly the way to effect change is through the might to the thoughts and following natural law.. things automatically fall into place when the thought process is creative, neutral positive and goes in line with natural law. | ||
Andrew_hua Member Post Number: 90 Registered: 12-2013 |
Hi Michelle I'm not aware of what Corey is going through right now; it was just an impression that I got following the post that was deleted by the moderators (a post which I never actually read), that perhaps he was confused. Keep in mind that I'm not being critical of him as a person, only that the style of his posts were becoming somewhat lofty and bloated, and that there would eventually have been some kind of balancing out of the profusion, whether by a self-intervention or one from outside. As always, faceless and voiceless words written over the internet can come across as cold and heartless, but I do have the sincerest hope that Corey is able to resolve whatever issues he is experiencing. My reason for not reaching out to him or anyone in this platform is because often there is quite a defensive backlash to any critique, and I don't feel it's my place to interfere with his or others's motives. Ultimately, each one of us has to confront that which lies on our path. I still visit these forums despite it seeming like it upsets me to be here. I regularly come back just to see what the atmosphere is like and to get a sense of how people are thinking in here. And I agree that this is a good place to get updates on the happenings within FIGU. | ||
Andrew_hua Member Post Number: 91 Registered: 12-2013 |
Ei21, You said you are "learning slowly the way to effect change is through the might of the thoughts and following natural law..." I said that we ought to "spend any spare time for self -improvement and -growth in order to be the best example of what it means to be a human being, in order to then impress this striving upon others..." So we agree. | ||
Msmichelle Member Post Number: 617 Registered: 02-2010 |
Andrew, thanks for your sincere response. I do hope you'll continue to post from time to time and provide some of your experiences which may help others on the forum deal with the everyday challenges, difficulties, insights, developments. MsMichelle (sending peace and love to all) | ||
Kenneth Member Post Number: 1086 Registered: 04-2013 |
Hello Ei21, You have a very good grasp on the Truth and the Teaching, enjoy. Salome Kenneth | ||
Tat_tvam_asi Member Post Number: 1138 Registered: 04-2011 |
REALISM AND BELIEF “Studying the writings repeatedly” causes “new aspects, new creativity to arise”. Very true. As are many of the other points of the CG member. But there is one amendment that I may add. Yes, we should not blindly accept by belief what one reads. But, in due respect, there are as well many of Billy’s teachings and CR info that we cannot prove. And, “accepting them as true”, is this not some kind of belief, too? I mean, how could any human of today prove what the Plejaren told us about the belts of the universe, what happens in the beyond, the history of Atlantis, the Gize-Intel under the pyramids, the blue race under the Himalayas (when I mentioned this point in the forum in 2014 I was pointedly advised to look at the outskirts of my bathing tub (for 'Shampoo' rather than 'Shampulla' … ). I am not saying that what we are told is untrue – but that to prove this information - via cause and effect – in our time - is simply impossible. And in relation to these info – is it not so that we 'accept' them because we 'infer that they are true' – as so many of Billy’s / the Plejaren other explanations were corroborated? Salome, Bill | ||
Cpl Member Post Number: 1193 Registered: 08-2004 |
I think...I think that while some may be believing that things Billy says are true, others just consider them or think them likely true based on other conclusions that they have made. It is true that there is very little that we can know, but each person does know certain things. I for example, know that a certain form of consciousness survives death because of my own experience. That, for me, means that certain other things must follow, i.e. something supports that consciousness for it to exist that also must survive death. We all have our own knowledge, experiences, and thoughts, and those things that we consider possible or likely. Most of what Billy teaches falls into these latter categories for me and probably all of us. For example, it's likely that he is telling the truth for a variety of reasons, one being we have proven some of his photos genuine, and the spiritual teaching not only makes sense; it works. That likelihood doesn't mean that I will have an inflexible belief in the things Billy says. I consider them very likely. That's it. It is likely, however, that much else is also true, but that doesn't necessarily follow. It's just another considered opinion rather than a belief. A couple of things correct doesn't make everything correct. I may "tend to", but don't necessarily, accept what Billy says. The tendency has to be kept in check. I "tend to" because of what I have found to be true, proven or demonstrative. It doesn't mean I believe anything, and I don't; I have considered opinions that could be wrong. Also I don't think we should assume that others also believe things. They may just "think" or consider that Billy is talking the truth. Each person can only check themselves and know what considered opinions they themselves have or what they "think" or believe. This is all part of being aware of our thoughts and controlling what we think. The word "believe" is also grossly misused in English. I hear people outside the forum who use this word a lot, when really they mean that they "think" so and so, rather than believe it. Not only should we watch ourselves to see that we don't end up believing, but we should think carefully about what words best describe our attitude, outlook, opinion, thoughts, ideas or whatever it is with which we decide to align our thoughts. This is what I currently think. Chris Use fully to the best both heart and head and never lose either. | ||
Ei21 Member Post Number: 6 Registered: 01-2020 |
Following on from what Tat just said, I agree that much of the info "cant be proved" yet much of our understandings of working through the information repetitively comes from the power of logic. Using logic is how any person can come to their own understanding (and peace) in agreement with others. In the Meier Material we are shown information that a person with logical thinking can be helped to understand. Our world has gotten so out of control and it is this logical thinking that has been corrupted over many thousands of years. It is this logical thinking that we need to utilize in order for it to reverberate and effect others. And through thinking about the information, it leads to creatively solving everyday problems and it can lead many people out of the general slavery we find ourselves in here on this planet. I think (at least in my case) that I got so excited and found so many benefits in BEAMS words that I went overboard trying to explain this to my family whilst still not having enough knowledge to deal with every "throwing pearls of wisdom to the pigs" scenario - so I came away feeling bruised and battered, this is why I am here now.. Lastly I see how there are multiple outcomes for this mission .. firstly for everyday people to get thinking logically so that we can get to a point where other everyday people like Scientists can do better work and discover the definitive the proof. It happens incrementally. | ||
Andrew_hua Member Post Number: 92 Registered: 12-2013 |
Hi Bill, You enquired: " Yes, we should not blindly accept by belief what one reads. But, in due respect, there are as well many of Billy’s teachings and CR info that we cannot prove. And, “accepting them as true”, is this not some kind of belief, too? " Yes, we ought not accept as true anything Billy or the Plejaren tell us. We must recognise the truth within ourselves; this is the only way. The various belts of the universe; the history of Atlantis; the 'Giza intelligences'; the "blue race" under the Himalayas; these are all only pieces of information that have been revealed through talks Meier had with the Plejaren or through clarifications on the part of Meier himself in response to questions raised by others - they have nothing to do with the universal spiritual teaching itself. The real truth can only be realised within yourself. That which you can't prove to another is irrelevant. | ||
Scott Moderator Post Number: 2988 Registered: 12-1999 |
Hi Chris, I am curious about your statement that a "certain form of consciousness survives death". Are you implying that consciousness does somehow continue beyond death? and if this is true, how could this be known, because you truly didn't die then if you are here to write about it. These are things I also think about  ....Thanks | ||
Cpl Member Post Number: 1194 Registered: 08-2004 |
It is difficult to talk about and discuss, Scott, because there is no specific language to cover it. I will attempt to explain as much as I can in the time and space available here. If this is too long, please split in into two (Part 1 and Part 2). The experience is what has been called Satori, the enlightenment that renders the negative ego dead -- though this is also often misunderstood, and I plan to write a book explaining as far as possible what the experience is and is not. In the experience one feels as though one is dying as powerful energies course through the body and up into the brain creating a magnificent feeling and experience of being one with everything and everyone. It has been called the mythic death, because it feels as though one dies in a sense. It can feel as though one no longer exists. A consciousness, that is not ones personality remains, and seems untouched by the experience, however. This consciousness remains like the eternal underlying structure of one's innermost consciousness. It seems to me to be like the overall consciousness block (OCB) in Billy's material. It doesn't change in any noticeable fashion by what I do, say, think, or feel. When I do, think, say, or feel things, I am taken away from awareness of that consciousness. While I and my personality will die and be gone at death, that/this consciousness will remain, of that I am certain, although it will probably evolve on, because evidence is that everything does evolve on. The experience convinced me that that consciousness survives death, or is that consciousness which survives death. It is not me, personally, unless I decide to identify myself with it, which identity cannot be maintained permanently, because of the need to focus attention and consciousness on the things one does throughout the day. Other than NDEs, it seems to me that the mythic death is the closest consciousness experience to death that one can have. NDEs and painful death-like experiences seem different to me in as much as the personality is still there, and greatly influences the experience coloring it with the person's own mind images. But that just may be the way in which the person tries to describe the indescribable experience. I cannot know that they are not having the same consciousness experience that I had without talking with them. It is also important to know why the experience occurs, and this is something I have meditated and thought on at length over the past 18 years since my experience. There is usually a catalyst for the sudden satori or mythic death experience, but I now think that a greater cause may be all the mediation one has done throughout one's life, and also that it may well be an impulse response because one's eternal consciousness (OCB?) has experienced it in previous lives. Like any previous life knowledge or experience it is then easier to experience again. This, of course, is not the conscious personality, but the underlying consciousness experience (OCB?). I think this is getting long enough and so I will leave it at this for now. Maybe it helps. The experience is the same "type" as the Buddha experienced under the Bodhi tree, although it came in two waves for me and could have stopped after the first wave, but continued on. At the time there was still a further level that the energies could have gone into the brain. The Buddha, or Siddhartha, probably experienced all three in one go. It is difficult to explain to someone who has never had the experience, and I have never found someone with whom one can truly discuss this because when you go there everyone has their own preconceived ideas that make open and free discussion virtually impossible. Especially, the Buddha's experience has been painted into a mythological image of perfection that is completely inappropriate and inaccurate. Myths were more important than science in Buddha's day. Upon holding to that/the eternal consciousness that remains upon having the experience it is obvious to oneself that it survives death. It is like a nameless, unsignatured part of oneself which seems one's true inner eternal consciousness signature. It seems to me that this consciousness must evolve on in a very gradual way, probably after death, unperceived by the waking, personal consciousness. It is logical to assume that this builds lifetime after lifetime as it evolves on. One can sense this in people, though there are differences with it in each person. One of the reasons I am interested in and study Billy's materials is because he is one of only two people in the world -- and I have looked into these types of experiences for over 50 years -- whose teaching fits in with my own experience. Chris Use fully to the best both heart and head and never lose either. | ||
Msmichelle Member Post Number: 619 Registered: 02-2010 |
Ei21, again, I am thankful you are here and I am thankful for others (sitting on the sidelines). I hope other members (interested in life changing conversations) to return and respectfully participate. I'm sure we'll allow all to express themselves within the boundaries of the forum rules. I can tell you from experience, I know this is the truth (BEAM's material) and how it has effected my consciousness and the results. If I believe something, I'll challenge those beliefs and remove them and personally, I have notice a refreshment with my thinking. This is a great opportunity for all of us to at least develop ourselves properly (to deal with the outside world)and prepare ourselves for what currently lies ahead, as well as the future of this planet. MsMichelle (sending peace and love to all) | ||
Tat_tvam_asi Member Post Number: 1139 Registered: 04-2011 |
Hi Scott, Maybe what Chris meant was not really "his consciousness surviving death" but gaining a very different kind of perception? Billy in Special Bulletin 38 *): When a person's rational thinking and coarse-material perception is "switched off" - through meditation, sickness, death or near death - he/she opens the door to the fine-fluidal-sensual perception of his/her 7th sense. Just a thought... Salome, Bill *) http://futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/FIGU_Special_Bulletin_038 | ||
Aristea Member Post Number: 28 Registered: 06-2019 |
Hi Cpl. . . .my understanding is that from what Billy teaches, the consciousness dissolves after death and the collected information goes to some grander place called "storage banks", where it is kept for you to access in your incarnational future. I too have always believed in the reincarnation of the soul, and that the soul will retain memories and knowledge inside itself, to be accessed through dreams and intuition. Billy would argue that this is not the case. He says that we are "spirit forms" and not "souls" and that our individuality ceases when we die and return to the great spirit in the sky whence we originated. I have trouble with some aspects of Billy's teachings because they contradict my own internal knowledge of what is. Therefore, while I read them with interest, as the "spiritual teaching" applies to my own being, I take it with more than one grain of salt. I remember "waking up" in my body, as a very young baby, and being absolutely terrified. It is a moment I will never forget and happened a few weeks after my body was born. I asked my mother about the location of the crib I found myself lying in, and she said this would have been about two weeks after I was born and already at home. I have no memories of my life prior to that "waking up" moment. I seriously remember that I thought (in English) "I can't move my legs", and that I was filled with sheer terror. The time of day would have been about 5:00 p.m. on a late June afternoon. Thereafter, I drifted in and out of consciousness until I was able to hold onto my conscious mind. This would have happened at the age of about 1 year. So I have always believed in reincarnation, and remember coming into this small body as a fully functioning person, presumably with my mind completely intact from my previous life. And. . . I spoke English. | ||
Aristea Member Post Number: 29 Registered: 06-2019 |
Hi Scott, the Rosicrucians teach that we don't ever "die", we simply move on to another level of consciousness when we leave this body. Then after a certain period of time living in a dimension where spirits live after they die, we return to incarnate as a new person. They teach that no knowledge can be destroyed once the soul has accessed and retained it, but comes with the soul into its new life. I have not been unduly influenced to think this way by other people; it has been my way of looking at life and death for very many years now. As time goes on, more of my own memories are being revealed to me through dreams, and I am charting my own course in life by taking cues from my dreams and acting on them. | ||
Eddieamartin Member Post Number: 1113 Registered: 08-2010 |
Bill, You bring up a great point. Anything that is unprovable here on Earth, if accepted as absolutely true, then we are doing ourselves a great harm because the brain now needs to implant this into itself.... which will effectuate certain behaviors, thoughts and thinking. From an email discussion with CF, I came to learn something about myself and how belief had quietly been doing its dirty work. What is unprovable, yet pertains to the actual reality, will be embedded in creational laws and recommendations. So the logic and the law of love should support it. Yet, nothing should be accepted as "true" until we can verify it in a future personality. Evolution of the consciousness only comes from the recognized and the provable. The effects of which we will experience, by making the knowledge, part of one's life and character. As I currently understand it. Salome, Eddie In the *Goblet of the Truth* there it says: Live always in love and in peace, foster freedom and harmony on Earth and never forget the real truth. Foster your life always in goodness of heart and live in the true BEING of the Creation. The *Goblet of the Truth* will wake you, not to the bane - but to the boon. (pg.3) | ||
Rarena Member Post Number: 765 Registered: 10-2005 |
I agree with CPL here. And I also have "feelings, empathies" that indicate the soul (personality [for Aristea]) records info to the storage banks also with my kids and how they are so much unlike each other and unique indicating although they are from the same parents (my wife and I) they must retain some aspect of indivuality from their spirit, I don't know. It might be useful to know that the spirit is a force which does not live, so therefore it cannot die. This force contains two "senses" to make a total of 7 senses for the Earth human and those two are 6.) deep deep feelings and 7.) empathy which remain after the death of the body. It is also my understanding that these remain within the spirit or are at least recorded via the records or storage banks and probably magnetically attached to the unique spirit we each have. And also, we ONLY increase or evolve in consciousness as a complete human being (body and spirit) when our body dies but do not add to the Creation until such time that we have evolved enough to do so. That is my understanding any way and I may be wrong but hey... I'm just a human learning in logic and reason. From observation to learning to usage of that cognitive knowledge which becomes wisdom and eventually the power to change my environment for more peace, harmony, wisdom and love. For Aristea, we have to unlearn the fradulant religious and cult-like information for the logic and reason to run it's natural course. As to not dying, the spirit of which we are more akin too, yet unconscious of... has records of ALL our past lives, (thoughts, feelings, actions) and the normal earth human of THIS earth anyway, has been in existence (spirit-line) for 5-7 Million years and that would account for hundreds of thousands of lives considering the 150 life to life age of a normally populated earth. This information we are learning is way above our pay grade so we may not get it all in one lifetime. Also I remember speaking with James Deardorf (Book of Matthew / Talmud Jmmanuel comparison) and even though he pretty much proved the Talmud Jmmanuel was created BEFORE the Book of Matthew, he never did answer my question to him: "Do you think this information is correct?" He researched that till the day he died knowing him as the good scientist that he was using the scientific method. The information seems to be as real and true as can be, it is us... who has to unlearn the fradulant information perpetrated by the unknowing in order to form our own conclusions and open ourselves up to being humble to new possibly unknown information without being afraid since the unknown breeds such trepidation. The problem with religions and cults is that they were incorrectly taught by the unknowing that the soul is the spirit and that the be all end all of human existence is the body and soul or body and personality when indeed it is The Creation (or spirit) which is responsible for the entire existence of the Universe and omnipotentance entailed and not a human being who although advanced in consciousness above rocks and plants and animals is still just a baby compared to it. So in the religious sense the ego plays a big part in their incorrect level of importance. Thus all the problems with the "monsters" of the Universe and comparitively slow evolution. By learning this information from this last true prophet we can evolve at a higher rate and find our way away from the "god-father-death" cycle and evolve peacefully. Anyway I'm writing a book here. Salome: Be greeted in peace and wisdom. R Arena I will always be as good and positive as my thoughts, feelings and actions actually are. | ||
Hugo Member Post Number: 783 Registered: 04-2015 |
Cpl, I assume you are referring to the "spiritual consciousness" and not "material consciousness" when talking about your "consciousness" surviving throughout your post? You did not say which one you were talking about which made it unclear to fully understand what you mean. |
