| Author | Message | ||
    Anthea |
Is love unconditional? | ||
Ed |
Yes. Once ego is left at the door you enter loving bliss. Only the conditions of mankind blur love, only the perception of love makes it unloving. The truth is not outthere, its inside of you. | ||
Ardie Fox |
Hi Anthea, That is a hard question! I think there are different levels of love. I love life, this planet and the people on it, even though they are not perfect. Circumstances and people can be cruel, but "in general" I love it/them all. On a more personal level love may be conditional. While you can and should love and respect each persons spirit, their personalities and/or their actions may cause a loss of respect for them resulting in a loss of love. The quote you made on another discussion today fits right in: "Respect is the foundation of all existence, respect is the foundation of love" Billy It seems to me that respect is a condition of love. Am I anywhere close? :) Salome, Ardie | ||
Michael Horn |
I like the definition of love given by F. Scott Peck in his book "The Road Less Travelled". As best I remember, it was something to the effect of supporting the best for another person, whatever it may be, even if we don't necessarily agree or fully understand what that may be. With that understanding love is unconditional, we don't even have to like another person to hold this type of love in our hearts for them. The kind of love that we know as "being in love" is of course not unconditional, as we all have probably discovered. By definition it is usually focused on, or triggered by, certain aspects of another person to whom we are attracted, consciously or unconsciously. Once the focus shifts to a less desireable aspect, or the attraction begins to dissipate, the conditional state of being in love may change. | ||
Savio |
I would think love is always conditional - as far as love between mankind is concerned. The expression tells us the truth - I love you "because" ..... hence is conditional :) becasue you are beautiful, becasue you are my children, because you are my wife, because you are my parents, becasue you saved my life...... Well, because we are all brothers and sisters, because we are part of Creation...... Whenever there is a reason to love, it is conditional. I don't know why, it looks that we are all looking for unconditional love. Is it part of our nature? Regards Savio | ||
Ardie Fox |
Hi All, On the subject of love: I just received this today. Here are some definitions of love given by 4 to 8 year old children. It was a long list, but I shortened it to a few of my favorites. "Love is that first feeling you feel before all the bad stuff gets in the way." "When someone loves you, the way she says your name is different. You know that your name is safe in her mouth." "If life is 'A,' love is the whole alphabet." "Love is what makes you smile when you're tired." "Love is what's in the room with you at Christmas if you stop opening presents for a minute and look around." "If you want to learn to love better, you should start with a friend who hates you." "Love goes on even when you stop breathing and you pick up where you left off when you reach heaven." "My enemies taught me how to love." "You can break love, but it won't die." "You really shouldn't say 'I love you' unless you mean it. But if you mean it, you should say it a lot. People forget. | ||
Michael Uyttebroek |
Where there is Love, there is Freedom. Where there is Freedom, there is Understanding. Where there is Understanding, there is Logic. Where there is Logic, there is Order. Where there is Order, there are rules and regulations...Is Love unconditional? Salome, Michael Uyttebroek | ||
Savio |
While we dwell within our body, we are affected and confined by the our senses not to mention all the chemical & biological reactions between each other. Love will not be unconditional in such an environment, unless we are so highly evolved that we can override all our senses ....etc. By the way, is there a general definition for true love? Regards Savio | ||
Anthea |
"Desiderata" written by Billy: "And love is the true essence of Creation; it will endure for ur-eternity and all Great Times beyond every conceivable hardship and disappointment" | ||
Anthea |
In today's news there was a report about Siamese twins. A High Court Judge ruled that a baby girl should die so that her conjoined sister can survive and have an excellent chance of a normal life. The decision of the Judge is against the parents wishes, however, unless they are seperated they are both expected to die within six months. The parents say that it is "God's will. Everyone has the right to life, so why should we kill one of our daughters to enable the other one to survive?" Who's right - the Judge or the parents? If the Judge's decision is the right one then has he created Karma for himself in sentencing the weaker one to death instead of allowing nature to take it's course (both die). If the parents decision is the right one then are they sentencing their healthy daughter to an untimely death for the sake of the life of the twin who has no lungs and would die of natural causes if they were to be seperated? | ||
Michael Horn |
First thoughts, not necessarily deeply thought out: We use tools. It is the judge's intention to use medical tools to give one person the chance to live. It seems that rather than sentencing one to death, where nature has already sentenced two, he is affording one an opportunity. Perhaps they both will die anyway but it seems like a worthwhile attempt. Perhaps it is the karma of the spirit in the weaker body to have this brief experience, since we are conjecturing about karma. | ||
Scott Baxter |
Hello This is a subject which I don’t believe has its own heading. It is in regards to marriage versus living together etc. Marriage as I understand it is the permanent bond between two beings which is not meant to be broken, unless certain errors are committed by either party which can lead to the breakdown of the marriage and eventually divorce. I find these days people are living together. Is this a transgression against the laws of Creation versus a marriage performed in a court of law? I find these days that the way the laws are set up they are a crime in themselves. The reason I say this is because I know a number of men who have been faithful to their marriages, and yet through man made laws of this land have been cast out of their homes, ordered to pay child support, alimony and on and on. I have a friend who has been in love with his wife since the beginning of their marriage. Through time they had a daughter which he has always put first. About 2 years ago this friend of mines wife went on a trip back to her homeland with their daughter. While she was visiting relatives, she ran into an old boyfriend from many years ago. Needless to say, when she returned from this trip, she wanted out of the marriage based on her desires for this old boyfriend. As a consequence of her actions my friend had to leave the house, was forced to pay child support, and was given visitation rights during the weekends. The woman commits the error and the male pays the price. What kind of system is this? As a result of this my friend is very leery of woman and marriage. I don’t blame him for the way he feels. I know this also happens to woman, but the laws as they are written seem to favor the woman, even if she commits the error or errors. I understand the natural laws in the sense that people create their own difficulties, by committing errors and then learning from them, but it seems in this society both parties suffer the consequences as well as the children, because of the error of one. As a result of these type of experiences I find males in the sense of protection don’t always enter another legal marriage with out some type of agreement beforehand if they possess wealth, or the idea of living together is more feasible due to all of the ramifications involved in divorce. Salome. Scott B. | ||
Savio |
Hi Scott You bring up a very valid point! Yes, the man made laws are sometimes biased and your case tells what is wrong. I always wonder whether Marrage is part of the Natural Laws. Perhaps living together is natural afterall. Any comments? Regards Savio | ||
Jani Metso and Janette Poikajärvi |
Hello, It is very sad to notice that here on Earth entering into a marriage is often performed even on the streets - you don't have to even get out of the car anymore. And there are so many unsuccesful marriages and so many people who break the marriage. In the world like this, the meaning of the marriage has got colder and almost totally ceased to exist in many parts of the world. Of course, there are many people who still respect the meaning of the marriage - but in addition to that, there's so many who abuse and misuse the concept or notion of the "Great Bond". But then again, I wonder how it will be in the future. In any case, I hope that the entering into a marriage will not be as some market or sales contract - I'd like to see respect and confidence here. Regards, Jani | ||
Lonnie Morton |
Hello Scott, Savio and Jani, Interesting dicussion with some valid points brought up. Concerning man made laws vs. Natural laws, even though many man made laws are unreasonable, we do derive much benefit from most of the laws. And, some Government is better than no Government at all, even in this respect. It is not the responsibility of Government to provide moral or spiritual guidance, nor do they take a stand on such. This is one reason why it is so common to hear of political leaders getting involved in some form of sexual misconduct while still maintaining favor with the people. They are political leaders, not moral or spiritual leaders. Anyone entering marriage should be mature and responsible enough to have a successful marriage and a happy family. And the government does encourage and help us in this regard. If the family unit breaks down so will the country and society. It is generally accepted that a couple contemplating marriage get checked out for any possible diseases. And a proper prenupual agreement is in order, regardless of the degree of trust. Also there are tax advantages as well. Of course the main ingredient for a happy and successful union is "true love". And whether or not true love exists in the relationship is how well one understands and appreciates the more important laws we must live by. A mature couple living by the Creational and Natural where "True love" exists, would never divorce. There is nothing in the Spiritual or Creational laws that prohibit a couple from just living together. Even though some may look down on this, in my opinion this would depend on individual circumstances, which we must look upon with understanding. So, even though the laws of the land may seem to favor woman, it is the man's responsibility to take the lead in these important matters. Woman will be woman and are naturally more concerned about other things. Kind regards, Lonnie | ||
Anthea |
Hi Lonnie, I am curious about your very affirmative statement in your response to Savio's little "survival" game under the topic area "Materialism vs Spiritual Evolution". You stated: "The Universal Consciousness (Creation), CAN control nature." Care to expand a little on this? In what way do you mean it can control nature? My understanding is that the Universal Consciousness is Nature, everything exists within Creation as well as Creation itself, according to determined laws (rules). Kind Regards, Anthea | ||
Lonnie Morton |
Hi dear Anthea, I hope you are well. I have been very busy as you can see from my sporadic participation on the forum. When I said Creation CAN control nature, my research has led me to the discovery that human consciousness is the only force in the universe not predetermined by nature. Indeed, only consciousness can alter or go beyond the fixed patterns of nature...In a society free of irrationality, illogic and egoism every conscious being produces open-ended achievments for society without bounds or limits. Life itself, it's evolutionary processes, and thus conscious beings themselves, have always existed throughout the universe as a unifying/integrating/controlling component. And that unifying/integrating/controlling component of the conscious mind was the component Einstein always sought but never recognized. For he focused only on the mass and energy components of the universe while overlooking the component of consciousness. Consider us Earth beings with our technology of less than 3000 years. Consider the advances we have made. One can easily see that conscious beings are altering the dynamics of nature at ever increasing rates. A thousand, even a million or a billion years is an incredibly short time, a mere instant. But, well within that brief time span, we Earth beings can also accumulate the knowledge to dominate and drive the universe --- to interdict nature's mass/energy dynamics into producing values for humanity, and continuing our own spiritual evolution until we merge with Creation, of which we are all a small part of. Kind regards, Lonnie | ||
Brock Bradford |
Interesting thoughts Lonnie, when we finally accumulate knowledge in the million or billion years from now will we in our new state of evolution/wisdom - dominate and drive the universe---? May all be well. Brock | ||
Lonnie Morton |
Hi Brock, Without getting too far away from the subject, "Creative Laws", consider how truly creative man has been, within 100 years, man went from the auto to the airplane, to the moon, and now toward super computers for everyone. ...Knowledge accumulates geometrically, quickly leaving natures forces far behind as if frozen compared to the incredibly fast, always accelerating generation of new knowledge. Perhaps only a few hundred years hence, we Earth beings will be accumulating new knowledge at lightning speeds. With that rapidly increasing knowledge, we will easily, for example, corral heavenly asteroids into man-made orbital matter to fill our needs, just as today we corral river water into man-made lakes to fill our needs. What needs will we Earth being have a thousand years from now, a million years from now? And how will we use our super-advanced knowledge and tools to control nature in filling those needs? Conscious beings, as you and I, can understand anything in existence. On gaining the knowledge, therefore, we can and will eventually do anything theoretically possible that rationally benefits our existence. Kind regards, Lonnie | ||
Scott B. |
Hi Lonnie & Brock In regards to controlling nature could this be related to a post on Dec 28, 1999 made by Andrew. In this post the 7-WE-form of the Arahat Athersata level was listed. The first being listed was: Urjel The watcher of the energies of the seasons and weather. Could this be the direction we are headed? Salome Scott B. | ||
Jean Pierre Lagasse |
Hi all, "Controlling Nature" or "Accumulating Information" is one situation. Expanding our consciousness or "Exploring ourselves" (& therefor Creation) is another. Creation is available to us "from within our spirits". Salome, JPLagasse | ||
Anthea |
Hi Everyone, Lonnie's comments are interesting, however, I agree with JP. What "greater-good" for humanity could truly come from making great technical advances without the gaining of necessary spiritual wisdom? Kind Regards, Anthea | ||
Lonnie Morton |
Hi Jean Pierre, Anthea and everyone, I fully agree with both statements, there is absolute truth there. However, expanding our consciousness and gaining wisdom can only be achieved through experiences in life. For wisdom is the practical application of knowledge. The new knowledge I was speaking of includes not not just technology alone. As we live by the Creative Natural Laws and directives in carrying out our work and duties from day to day, we are increasing in knowledge and wisdom. Whether we have heard about Billy and the contacts or not, we are still growing. So, obviously there must be a proper balance between the two. Take for example the Timmers, a highly developed race of humans from the Dal universe. They are very much into technology, much more so than the Plejarans. The Plejarans are more into improving their minds, so much so that they can't even repair most of their own ships. They rely on the Timmers, and have a great deal of respect for their technology. Certainly, there must not only be a balance between the two, but also an integration as well, in order for us to truly evolve and make progress. The more we integrate, the more we can experience the great love of Creation. Kind regards, Lonnie | ||
Michael Horn |
Hi Lonnie, I think it's fair to say that our perception of the Plejarans and other races is dependent on what we have been told and how we've interpreted it. It seems to me that the Plejarans couldn't exactly be bumbling incompetents technologically based on the material and the photo, film and metal evidence. In reality, we probably have only the faintest idea of what any of these people are like or how they live. We could probably think our way up, so to speak, to some of what their worlds might be like but the picture would be incomplete. It might actually be depressing (as well as inspiring) to get a glimpse of how presumably far more advanced, peaceful beings live compared to us. | ||
Richard Lunter |
Hello All, pls is somewhere on forum german version of the 12 Directives of Creation by the PETALE Spirit level ? Thank you Richard | ||
Inger Wikstrom |
Hello Forum, It is stated that 3 children per marriage are allowed. If you divorce because the health of the children and the family is deeply threatened, is it allowed, by the Creational and the Natural Laws, to have another child in another marriage in the future? Regards, Inger | ||
Anthony |
Dear Inger, I do not think that having more than 3 children per marriage is against Creational and natural laws. In other words, for example, we can observe animals in nature that have no set limit on the number of offspring they produce. So I would say that Creation allows for more than 3 children per marriage, as well as through other marriages. However, given the enormous problem of human overpopulation on this planet today, I think that limiting the number of children within a marriage is more of a recommendation (logical directive) of the FIGU. I know myself, looking around and seeing how stressed the planet Earth is becoming -- with escalating wildlife extinctions, ever growing air, water and land pollution, as well as dwindling food, water and energy, to name just a few problems -- I can not help but consider that bringing just one more child into this fragile system today may be more of a detriment than a benefit for everyone and everything involved. Best regards, Anthony | ||
Masoud |
Hello Marc , Christian and Others , I have a question regarding reality and I was not sure where to ask my question in the forum . However my question is about the relation between reality and time . Does reality depend on time ? I mean if reality is already presented to the spirit and we are just experiencing the life to discover the reality then what does free will mean and why should we experience it since the creation already knows it ? If the answer is no then how is possible for someone to see the future events during a night dream or meditation just like prophessy of Noster Adamus ? I apologize for several question marks in my posting but actually all is one question and I appreciate for a clear response about it . Salome Masoud | ||
Jim Deardorff |
Those are really good questions, Masoud. I keep coming back to the Talmud of Jmmanuel, where Jmmanuel teaches that even Creation evolves. If so, this must mean that even its immeasurable store of knowledge and wisdom increases with "time." If Creation is aware of all future events, yet evolves, this might (perhaps, maybe!) mean that it can foresee these events but not yet fully understand their full meaning and significance. Otherwise, Creation wouldn't be evolving. If so, we continue to experience the reality that Creation can foresee, and learn from it, as does Creation from what goes on everywhere. Presumably, a great prophet can foresee some parts of the future that involve his own life or future lives. Jim | ||
Christian Frehner |
Hi Masoud, As far as I understand it (the following thoughts have grown in my head!), time is (a) reality, just as space is. Life is reality, too. The creative laws are reality, just as the universe is, and Creation. And when you drive in a car, that's also reality. However, there is a reality outside of "our" time, too. There are different times or dimensions existing, simultaneously. Reality is "something" that is constantly changing, and reality is more than we can perceive and sense. Reality can be in the past, and in the future. And reality can be exactly where there is the "mythical" point of time that we call present, where the future constantly falls into the past. Every person makes his own reality. There are different realities existing. These depend on the individual's awareness/consciousness and evolutive level. Regarding events that happen in the future and can be "seen" or even visited by time travelers: This is a matter that is very hard to understand. At least I have trouble to understand it. --- I wrote down an explanation, but I will not include it here because I don't think it's correct. My head is still smoking! :-) In May or June 2001 Guido Moosbrugger's new book will be published. The topic is about time and time travel. Perhaps I can give you an answer about traveling into the future (a future that already exists)later this year. I will first have to read that book. Regarding the "free will": (Human)Life is no movie where all scenes are determined in advance. After the human's spirit form has incarnated for the first time, it is on a separate path of evolution, "separated" from Creation (just as pupils in a school are separate from "society"). This will last until, in the end, the spirit form unites with Creation again after living through the Petale level. Creation did create the creative and natural laws, but it never interferes with -- nor influences or punishes -- any single human being. Creation supplies us with cosmic energy, the energy that enables life (and the universe). A person's free will can only be restricted by the person himself, by other people, by society or through a disease or brain damage, etc. Salome, Christian PS: If it is possible that a person can "time travel" into the past, e.g. watching the pyramids being built, then it is a "must" that a future exists at the same time (however, in another dimension). Besides the present/actual time of a person who sits at the base of the unfinished pyramid and who observes a time traveling UFO flying overhead, there simultaneously exists a future (time) some 70,000 years ahead! If the time travelers would decide to not travel back in time, the guy in the past wouldn't see the UFO. But even if they wouldn't want to travel back, the future would *still" exist. A complicated matter indeed. Please don't ask me further about this matter. I will have to read Guido's book first. And there's no guarantee that I will understand all of this "matter" (or time). :-) | ||
Anthony Alagna |
Semjase: "As with us and others elsewhere, all life forms are different in their evolution, just as two "like" poles will never be found together. This would signify a degeneration and termination of evolution Therefore, two opposing poles must always meet for an evolution to take place. Both of these opposite "poles" will inevitably grate against one another and different opinions will clash. So, for the purpose of evolution, differences in opinion must arise. This is an irrevocable law of evolution which we and all other life forms of the universe must align with." Taken from, "And Yet...They Fly! bottom of page 44 | ||
Savio |
Hello Excerpt from the Spirit Lessons #3 (German only): Each principle of Creation, of the Universe and of all life forms rests in the law of love. Love, however, is the fundamental principle of all principles. Each principle, however, is embedded in the principles time, space and spirit. " Therefore, love can only be existent within the principles time, space and spirit, which are the basis of existence for love." Does it mean that love will not exist when Creation is in a "rest" stage where time & space are no longer exist? Regards Savio | ||
Christian Frehner |
Dear Inger, A maximum of 3 children per marriage (or woman) is a human directive, not Natural or Creative Law. Since Billy's overpopulation measurements are not put in force by any country on earth it lies within the responsibility and competence of any (married) couple whether or not one will have more than 3 children. (The number of three is limited to overcrowded/overpopulated planets only.) The most important thing is that a couple is aware of the responsibility of having children (before the beget a child!). In this respect I refer to the article "Parenthood" on FIGU's website (in the overpopulation section). Regards, Christian | ||
michaeld |
hello, I have ponder this question. Is Love unnconditional? MY anwser is Yes... To my understanding Love is the very principle, the foundation to everything.. every deed,every action,and every thought. There is Love everwhere. It is with us as a part of Creation,as a part of our sprit. Even if we act without Love-there is Love; without meaning there is Love; with hate,lies,evil there is Love... Love connects us...Love is Truth...Truth will always be. I know Love is unconditional. I don't know if anyone may find my statement correct,but it is what I know as the truth, it may stay the same or change the more I learn and ponder Love. thank you michaeld | ||
Howard Member Post Number: 10 Registered: 05-2003 |
Concerning the food problematique ;) From the bible; 1 Timothy 4 1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from ( my translation) certain types of food, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. 4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving. And so on... | ||
Edward Member Post Number: 343 Registered: 05-2002 |
Hi Marc Juliano.... I decided to wait until you had gotten answer to your question from Billy concerning "Are Plejaran "spirit lessons" of a much higher caliber/level than those written by you for the earth human beings?..." If I am correct, The Commandments given to us here on Earth are but only a small portion; and it was mentioned in Billy's materials..I once remembered reading. The Commandments that are given to us seem to be the ones that would suit our level of Existence, Consciousness and Being. I would think, that it is...in its place...that we only "adapt" those Commandments that would fit in for our todays Well-being. As we are still too low evolved to understand and execute(all of them) them in our daily lives. Man on Earth...is just Not..."Mature" enough in Consciousness, Spirit and in Being, to live-up to ALL The Commandments in its Fullest..Alas. Thus, I would have done the same with The Commandments...as is done with it now, for us beings on Earth. One just has to take into account the Evolution Level.. of the concerning Creatures/Human Beings. Thus, that is not really...asking Too Much from us...Earth beings. Not? Edward. | ||
Phaethonsfire New member Post Number: 3 Registered: 01-2004 |
Hello everyone, These are my thoughts about Universal love and human relations according to what I know or assume to know about the Univeral laws. Universal Love and The Natural Creative laws and Directive of Monogamy and Polygamy. Definitions: Polygamy is the martial union between one man and two or several wives. Monogamy is the martial union between one man and one wive. The laws of polygamy and monogamy spawn from the law of Universal Love, and the law of BEING (SEIN), its directives spawn directly from the 4th commentment of Creation as thought by Petale to us. Everything and everyone in the whole material and spiritual universe, in Creation is one, there is nothing seperate or isolated, or that is lose or disconnected. This unity begins and ends in Creation, it begins in the Human Spiritform, end (reaches perfection) in Creation itself, in fact it never really ends but goes on for all time. Over time when the human spirit evolves it reaches a certain level when it begins to understand reality and the natural laws which govern it, then the Spirit starts to consicously fullfill these laws out of its desire to be one again with Creation, in order to perfect itself and Creation. The Spiritform starts to fullfill the Law of Love, and begins to develop several froms of love, completing it in Universal Love, once that level of Love is established in the Spiritform then it will be there for all time, never ending and increasing in strength. Universal love works like a stone thrown in the water, its ripples the surface and touches everything and everyone, it chances reality and stays true to itself, it resonates and it pushes the Spiritual evolution forward enabling the creation of Universal love in everyone, thereby forever increasing in strength. This goes on and on until one day Universal love becomes so strong and potent in a civilisation that it will escape the bounds and bounderies of space and time and forever enters its true realm, the Spiritual Absolute Reality. Universal Love is THE most powerful spiritual power a Spiritform has, every other Spiritual power spawns from it. How does this translate to Human civilisation and to be precise how does it translate to the individual Human itself? The smallest element of the Universal unity is the maritial union between man and his wive(s), its this unity, when its conveiced according to the Natural Creative Laws and Directives of Creation, then its a balanced and unbreakable unity between the positivie element (man), and negative element (women) The true maritial love between a man and a woman is unbreakable and true MONOGAMOUS in nature, the love connection reaches into deep into both the male and female psyche and connects into the Spiritform of both, as positive and negative unite this way, there is balance and harmony. It means that neither a man or a woman in this kind of unity will allow this unity to be broken or disregarded, both will be truthfull, respecting, equal, yet different in this unity. This monogamous unity is a part of the POLYGAMOUS maritial unity and is its building block. The Natural Creative Laws provide for a polygamic union between one male and several females, based on the capicity of the male the sustain and provide for the females in any way, in mental, emotional, spiritual and material ways. The amount of wives a man can have in its maritial union is dependant on several key factors: 1. He needs to be able to sustain all material, emotional and spiritual needs of each and everyone of his wives. 2. Each and every maritial union between him and his wives need to be founded in true love and he to be truely monogamous in nature. 3. His evolution must have reached a level of creating true love and following all the duties that come from it. The ammount of wives a man can have is based on his Spiritual evolution and his Material capabilities to support and sustain them in a polygamic maritial union, however, a human man is a being with its totally own free will so its not mandatory to have as many wives as he can sustain, it can be less or just one. Since the male is the representation of the positive creative principle and therefor outogoing/repulsive, it can't allow another male in the same union because they would reject each other and therefore breakup the union before it even can exist. The female is the representation of the negative creative principle and therefore ingoing/attractive, it will attract other females in the same union and form a harmonic unity with them, this has the purpose to create a receptive maritial union in which offspring can be conceived by the male and raised to adulthood by the male and his female(s) This maritial-union between man and his wive(s) is Neutrally-balanced and according to the Natural-Creative laws the basic building union of a a communion (the first of a socalled ICH-WIR form union), which is followed by extended families, friends, clans, etc up to world wide unions and even higher. The female has the ability given by her negative/attractive nature to bond with other females in this union, this will happen because when a polygamic maritial union exist, all included in this union will be having more or less the same spiritual level of evolution. The similarities between the women will strengthen the bond with each other and the male, the differences will be a source of ongoing evolution and development. The man's role in this is that he provides for all the energy and material needed to create the union, the wives sustain it, build it and evolve it. In this union offspring can be convieced and nursed in a loving, caring and wise manner. The polygamic maritial union has a lot more to it then this, it also goes in to the laws of natural diversity and evolution of the species, but I will tell my thoughts about that another time. I hope I made myself clear, I have been thinking a lot about these things and this is what I have come up with, so please feel free to comment on these words as you like. Saloome Jacob | ||
Phaethonsfire Member Post Number: 55 Registered: 01-2004 |
The Natural Creative Laws and Directives of Natural Barbarism Definition of Natural Barbarism: Natural Barbarism is the necessary mental toughness and objective thinking in order of destroying material life and/or materials for gaining insight and knowledge about the Universe and Life. Natural Barbarism is required for science in order to make necessary discoveries about the structure of matter and life, without this barbarism and false humanity towards science and evolution would miss certain important insights about life that can’t be gained otherwise. The Law: The use and possible subsequent destruction of prokaryotic (microbes), eukaryotic (single cell organism, like amoeba, etc) material florin (plant life, etc) and faunal (animals, etc) life is natural and according to the Natural Creative Laws provided that the use of material life is limited to the necessary amount in order to find the solution to an illness/problem or to gain insights and knowledge that cant be found elsewhere or in different means. This is a Natural Creative Law of Evolution because every human race in the Universe has to go through these stages of their evolution, in order to progress. The Directives: The use of material life should be limited as much as possible and where possible substituted with non-destructive alternatives. Human life CANT be used or destroyed when: Human embryonic life exceeding the age of 21 days, the Embryo has then a Spiritform and destruction of life in that stage is murder. Any use of human life against their will consciously or unconsciously (for example when a person is in a coma, or persistent vegetative state) Human life CAN be used when: Use of deceased mature people in accordance to their will. Human embryonic life BEFORE the 21 day mark, in this stage its still impulse-based life and not human-spiritual life AND when its terminated by NATURAL means (miscarriage), since there are enough natural terminations there is no need for an induced termination of human life(abortus provocatus) Use of tissue samples of adult persons in accordance to their will, provided this does not impair their bodies and minds. These directives are themselves part of the Natural Creative Laws of Material human evolution and Self-determination Jacob Saalome gam naan ben uurda, gan njjber asaala hesporoona! | ||
Phaethonsfire Member Post Number: 95 Registered: 01-2004 |
The Natural Creative Law of Self-Defense Creation provides everything that the human requires for his existence, life, and evolution in both the Spiritual and Material realm on an all-time basis. Also, in Nature, Creation reveals its eternal Natural Creative Laws and Directives, which can be recognized by people who truly seek and find the Truth in unbiased way and with an open-mind. In the fauna and flora of Nature you will see that every animal and plant has some kind of defensive capability in order to defend itself and for self-preservation and to ensure that it's species will go on. Plants and animals have can have an vast array of poisons, stealth, claws, stings, teeth, tails and much, much more. Creation provided this defensive ability to its creatures everywhere in the universe so they would be able to survive and will do justice to their function and evolution in Nature. This ability is given to all creatures, also the human, so what is his defensive capability? It is his material consciousness, which is the barer of his intellect. With this he will be able to create any plan and possibility to defend himself, his next of kin against all kinds of aggression. As long as human spiritual evolution is still in the material realm, a need for defense is given, since aggression is still a possibility. The Natural Creative Laws and Directives are clear about this: The Self-defense directives: When aggression is aimed against the life, limbs, next-of-kin, your living space and your property then logical violence is warranted to neutralize the act of aggression toward your life, your health, next-of-kin, living-space and property. 1. The first directive of logical violence is to attempt to change the mind of the aggressor with logical reasoning, in order to make him abandon his act of aggression towards you, your health, next-of-kin, your living-space and property, you do this by making clear that an act of aggression will force you to defend yourself with any means necessary to ensure your own life, your health and all those in danger of the pending threat. When you have attempted to the best of your abilities to communicate and bring reason and logic to your aggressor, then you will have fulfilled this first directive of Self-defense. 2. The second directive of logical violence is when the aggressor doesn’t respond to any logical attempts to change his mind and to see the logic in your reasoning that when he will attack you, that you will defend yourself. In this stage, its allowed by the Natural Creative Laws to use appropriate logical violence/force in order to DISABLE your aggressor in such a way that he can't carry out his plans, but he still will be able to recover from your logical force in such a way that his thinking is unimpaired so he will have the ability to think and learn from his actions. 3. The third directive of logical violence is when the aggressor expresses so much illogic, aggression and rage that it is impossible to fulfill the first directive in order to change his mind, and when attempts according to the second directive to disable him also fail, because there is no time to apply the appropriate force for disablement. In this situation when all other options fail then it's allowed to use lethal force. You have to keep in mind that this lethal force needs to be applied in a quick and logical manner so that your aggressor will have as little pain as possible. Know that when you really have to use lethal force in order to self defend yourself, your next-of-kin, your possessions and living-space, that in every step of the way, and in every possible option and to the best of your abilities, you have really gone through all your options to avoid lethal force. With this knowledge you will know that you won't violate the Natural Creative Laws and Directives and you won't be guilty of murder, since you where forced to use lethal force and you had no other option to do otherwise or to avoid it. These Natural Creative Laws and Directives in this regard are much more extensive then the Laws and Directives of Self-defense and reach on to the levels of mankind, in to self-preservation, etc. I will write about that soon. Recommended reading: Dekalog (Petale) A FOOTNOTE / VERY IMPORTANT: These are the Laws and Directives of Creation in regards to self-defense and their appropriate actions out of fulfillment in Logic and Love. HOWEVER: In many nations, countries and territories the Natural Creative Laws and Directives are unfortunally not the fundament of the human Laws and Directives, so the human laws and directives for your country can be very well different and mostly illogical from the eternal Natural Creative Laws and Directives of Creation. So your actions, even though logical and in accordance to the Laws of Creation can be punished in human law varying from a mild punishment with no applied penalty up to life long imprisonment or even the death penalty. So, always be very aware of the Laws in country / territory about this and that your actions are your own responsibility. Jakobjn Saalome gam naan ben uurda, gan njjber asaala hesporoona! | ||
Scott Moderator Post Number: 484 Registered: 07-2000 |
Hello Jacob, Its interesting you made this post at this time. Last eve, I attempted to break up a cat fight in the patio area where I live. Just as these animals were getting ready to go for it, I grabbed one of them, which was a bad error on my part. Needless to say the cat turned on me with its nails and teeth and tore into the back of my hand with full force. Although the animal was attempting to defend its territory, it did so out of instinct, rather then demonstrating any ability to reason the situation out. Even though I was not the invador, the animal could not tell the difference. Needless to say, I had to go to the hospital today, and received a round of antibiotics to fend off any infection. Now I'm the one with the sore "paw". Saalome Scott | ||
Phaethonsfire Member Post Number: 111 Registered: 01-2004 |
The Truth about the titles JHWH / JHRH and Elo-JHWH / Elo-JHRH In all of Nature and given by the Natural Creative Laws and Directives, titles, grades, social status, etc. do not exist, since all titles and grades are an human invention. The ancient titles of JHWH is a millions of years old title brought by our Lyranic ancestors to Earth, unfortunately it's falsified by many wrong teachings over the thousands of years. So what is an JHWH; The Title JHWH is a male title. - The Title JHWH = King of Wisdom; Pronounced: JSCHWSCH This title is given to a man who has reached the highest possible knowledge, wisdom, truth, insight and most strict following of the Natural Creative Laws and Directives at all possible times and lives in recognition and realization of Universal Love. It's the highest possible knowledge and wisdom any man can have still in material form. An JHWH is an absolute example for people who don't have the knowledge, wisdom and adherence to the Natural Creative Laws and Directives, the Truth and recognition and realization of Universal Love. So what is an JHRH; The Title JHRH is a female title. - The Title JHRH = Queen of Wisdom; Pronounced: JSCHRSCH This title is given to a woman who has reached the highest possible knowledge, wisdom, truth, insight and most strict following of the Natural Creative Laws and Directives at all possible times and lives in recognition and realization of Universal Love. It's the highest possible knowledge and wisdom any woman can have still in material form. An JHRH is an absolute example for people who don't have the knowledge, wisdom and adherence to the Natural Creative Laws and Directives, the Truth and recognition and realization of Universal Love. JHWH and JHRH are identical in title/rank just different in gender. Elo-JHWH and Elo-JHRH These are the titles for men and women who are 'half-way' there in their evolution towards the title of JHWH or JHRH, but don't underestimate the knowledge and wisdom of these people, they are very far advanced in Spiritual knowledge and Wisdom. An JHWH is a human being of flesh and blood, who is mortal, finite, limited and will make mistakes, since he is human. However an JHWH is extremely wise, knowledgeable and loving while following the Natural Creative Laws that he is capable of ruling one or more entire planets. An JHWH or JHRH must NEVER and NEVER be compared or put next to Creation itself because Creation, The Universal Consciousness, The Unmeasurable Secret, is the true omnipotence and absolute power in Wisdom, Love, Knowledge and Truth, and a JHWH or any other man, woman and Spirit-form in the Universe is extremely tiny compared to Creation itself. **** JHFH, JHVH, Jehawe, JHVH Jehova **** In ancient times, the title of JHWH is maltreated and abused by people who put themselves in the spotlight to appear almighty, powerful, brought false teachings and terror to the people of Earth. They put themselves next to Creation (which is absolutely impossible); and called themselves Creators. The Lyranic spelling of this title was changed from JHWH to JHFH(=JSCHFESCH); which means as much as: King of Falsehood; Violent Ruler. The later Hebrew falsification of JHFH in to JHVH doesn't have an extended impact on the meaning of the title. In the Lyranic language the letter V doesn't exist, so the F was replaced by an V in Hebrew. The Hebrew pronounced their JHVH "Jahwe" which means "Violent Ruler" Jehova was an JHFH so his title was: JHVH Jehova Its very interesting to know that the title JHVH has an Cabalistic (Universal Mathematical) value which is equal to Death, Destruction and Damnation. Almost allways the title is written with 4 letters: A few examples of the JHVH title on Earth: Arabs: ALLA Germans: GOTT / GUH French: DIEU England: GO(O)D; in Dutch and Flemisch = GOD Egyptians: TOTH Hebrew: JHVH Spanish: DIOS So, only use the title JHWH/JHRH for men and women who have reached this level in all knowledge and wisdom and who live according to the Natural Creative Laws and Directives, never use this title for people people like Jehova. The title JHVH was only for people who falsely abused the title of JHWH for their own benefit and caused Death and Destruction. Remember one thing above all: THEY ARE / WHERE ALL MATERIAL / IMPERFECT HUMANS, CREATION IS ALL WHAT TRULY MATTERS. Jakobjn Saalome gam naan ben uurda, gan njjber asaala hesporoona! | ||
Phaethonsfire Member Post Number: 112 Registered: 01-2004 |
No, I didnt mean (just) Elo-JHWH, although this sentence is applicable on JHWH, JHRH, Elo-JHWH and Elo-JHRH. All JHWHs and semi-JHWH/JHRHs etc are 'just' human. Hi Jacob, I withdrew my comment, sorry for the misunderstanding-Scott Jakobjn Saalome gam naan ben uurda, gan njjber asaala hesporoona! | ||
Phaethonsfire Moderator Post Number: 182 Registered: 01-2004 |
The Natural Creative Law of Freedom Only the human who is free and has the will to live in Freedom can open himself up to Truth. True freedom is inner freedom, being free from opinions, believes, preconceived conceptions and untruths, all this inhibits your freedom to find the Truth, and to live in the Truth of Creation and its Laws and Commandments. Only life according to the Laws and Commandments of Creation is true freedom. Inner freedom is being free from bindings of the material, the temporary, the limited, matter has a limited time of existence, so you never bind yourself that is limited in existence, since all what limited in time and space will vanish and part from you and your surroundings, and parting from something or someone always causes hurt. True inner freedom is being free from dwellings from the past and unreal fantasies of the future, life happens here-and-now, not somewhere in the future. True inner freedom is being free from illusions, opinions, dogma's, mental blockades, unreal fantasies and unreal wishes, all things preconceived will block your ability and therefore freedom to find, realize and know the Truth. Only a human who is free in himself, is truly free, even when his body is enslaved and behind bars, his consciousness and Spirit will be free. Even when a human lives in external freedom, being able to move anywhere, can be un-free and chained when his consciousness lives in illusion, preconceived conceptions, popular opinions, mental blockades and untruth. The ultimate freedom is life in Knowledge and Wisdom in following of the Laws and Commandments of Creation. Jakobjn Saalome gam naan ben uurda, gan njjber asaala hesporoona! | ||
Phaethonsfire Moderator Post Number: 243 Registered: 01-2004 |
The Laws of Hygiene and Nurishment Creation provides for everything the human can possibily think of, all things, all events and in all circumstances any human can possibly think of or what is beyond his present mental capabilities to conceive, this includes the Laws of Hygiene and nurishment. The human is a very complex spiritform driven, physical organism with the most complex Psyche of all creatures which requires correct maintance in the form of physical, psychological and spritual hygiene and nurishment, although the spiritform it self has a different position in all of this. The Natural Creative Laws about Hygiene and Nurishment cover an area so vast and so wide that they cant be written down here in just one post. A very basic and incomplete overview of the areas which the Laws of Hygiene and Nurishment cover: Physe/Psyche: - Activity / Sleep - Mental labor / Physical labor - Male / Female specific hygiene and nurishment - Removal of pubic hair - Plant and Animal based nurishment - Legal and illegal drugs - Normal and Abnormal Sexual life - Living in cities or rural areas - Privacy and openness - Psychosomatic illnesses - etc etc The Spiritform is absolutely neutral and absolutely untoucheable for any illness, disease or any harm imaginable, since its part of Creation, the Spiritform is indestructable. The Spiritform can't devolve or degenerate, it can only exist in a (near)stagnation, when the human lives in the illusion of cult-religion and/or materialism. The Spiritform becomes 3 kinds of nurishment: 1. Cosmic electromagnetic life-energy from Creation 2. Spiritual-energetic nurishment from other spiritforms, especially from its own collective (like the human population affects each and every single human being) 3. Spiritual based nurishment in the form of knowledge and wisdom. However for the Spiritform, also the Natural Creative Laws of Hygiene and Nurishment apply. When the Physe (Human body) and the Psyche are unclean and unhygienic, then they will function less then optimal which means that the evolutionary factor for the Spiritform, the material human, operates less then it should or could. It is known that the brain is the center of the material consciousness forms which works thighty with the Psyche, both are material/half-material parts of the human and therefore vulnerable to disease, illness, delusion, etc. Its the obligation for every individual person to find out what food is best for himself or herself, it's however important to know that humans need plant and animal based food, the human is a omnivore, a plant and meat eater. The thinking that meat or animal based products are bad and unhealty and only a vegatarian or veganistical (veganist dont even drink milk or eat eggs, which are animal-based products) lifestyle is good is absolutely false. In animal based products there are proteins, aminoacids and minerals which are non-existent or too little existent in plant based products, therefor meat is required, but all in good balance. This balance is absolutely personal and individual, and is based on age, gender, general health, etc. Meat products have a slowing influence on the material consciousness, while plant products have an accelerating influence, when too much or only plant based food is eaten, the material consciousness works too fast and with too little control over its thought processes, which can lead to impulsive and irrational behavior, when too much meat is eaten, the material consciousness is slowed down too much and a lethargy and slowness effects all thinking processes. It's a choice for every person, to decide to eat meat or not, but it is given by the Natural Creative Laws that animals are food for humans, and it is fully natural when a human kills an animal for his acute and short term needs. However, currently on this planet, the human kills animals for mass consumption and storage way beyond any normal level, which is absolutely a violantion of the Natural Creative Laws and Commandments. In Nature, animals kill alone the amount of prey which they need for their existence, not more then that. The conclusion is that eating meat is natural, but the way how the Earth human kills animals on a extreme scale is not. Jakobjn Saalome gam naan ben uurda, gan njjber asaala hesporoona! | ||
Eric_drouin Member Post Number: 19 Registered: 05-2004 |
Hi Jakobjn I could add to your last post that (some) Earth human kill animals also just for pleasure. It is even called an "outdoor sport", (to hunt moose or a deer, and keep the horns as a prize). I agree also as one rule of hygiena that mental labor must be balanced by good physical work. Surprisingly, it was Figu material that made be aware of this necessity only recently (i used to hate manual work since i am a kid). I since learned to value people with manual skills as much as people "with good education". Manual work is now extremely beneficial to my own balance. mind you: people that do manual work for living (such as carpenter, mechanic, electrician), often posses strong common sense, and better ethics than people working in offices, have you noticed? (I work in an engineering office ...) Peace Eric | ||
Phaethonsfire Moderator Post Number: 255 Registered: 01-2004 |
Hi Eric, There is no use for any sports hunting or for any hunting to preserve the natural balance. Nature has been able to preserve the balance for ages, until man came and disrupted it with his 'need' to make order in Nature, what is in fact chaos. It's true that people who do manual labor are more grounded and have common sense, but it can happen that people who do manual work all the time neglect mental labor and become too materialistic, in the end a good balance between mental and manual labor is always preferred. Jakobjn Saalome gam naan ben uurda, gan njjber asaala hesporoona! | ||
Edward Member Post Number: 394 Registered: 05-2002 |
Hi Eric... Yes, Again...Jacob has explained himself very clearly. I would agree with him on all points. I always found No Use in the so-called Hunting for recreation - Hobby - purposes. It should speak for its self, that killing an animal only for the purpose of Consumption (and Clothing)...If Needed..would be in its place. What is the use in killing animals for The Fun of it all (trophies ...etc...)!? Very Sadistic...in my eyes. Something I have always seen as Degenerating(the Deed). You just do Not KILL...a Living Creature..for Nothing. Look what happened to the American Buffalo. They were just "Exterminated" ...for the Fun of it all. By the MILLIONS! And this was the Main Food Source...for the Native Americans at the time. And by this Un-Human Act of Pleasure...; the Natives slowly Starved...to their death...alas. The Hobby Game Hunters...Truly Generated...and Created TRUE Chaos...as Jacob has expressed very clearly. Thus, Truly...the Natives and the Buffalo did Not become extinct by the Natural Laws of Nature and Creation, but...By MAN...who wanted to play GOD...over Nature and other Creatures of Creation. And SEE...the Consequences and Impact...that this all has had on our future. But I must mention; that even the Colonies of Pilgrims at the time.. were struck by this Un-Human deed also; in the winters they too..could not find food for themselves...and Caused them to "Cannibalize" them selves! Thus, their Own Hobby...became their Own Death! Thus they Created True Chaos...for them selves without Thinking of the Consequences. Plejarans have mentioned that future cataclysms will also be Caused...by Man...him self. A good example is the many Gigantic Dams and the countless Dikes. These immense Dams and Dikes are Truly Stagnating the True Flow of Earth's and Nature's Fluids to where they should flow to in a Naturally manner. In my country, there are very cleaver engineers that design many ways of making "Oceans" in to fruitful ground for people and crops and animals to live in. But for How Long...can this stay in realization? With the just mentioned Process...One is acting to the Laws of Humans... and Not that of Nature. As there will come a time that Nature and Nature's Laws...Will "Strike" Back...as Ptaah and Quetzal once said. And Truly these Gigantic Huge Dams and Dikes will Disintegrate by these Natural Forces of Creation. Thus, the engineers Do intend to foreget how Powerful Mother Nature..can be...when she is at her best! And its seems that our dear engineers are working on a NEW project to make the worlds BIGGEST Harbor...! And yes...From the Ocean.(can not remember if it was 400 or 4000 football fields!!!!!!!!!!!) And this too, is Pushing all sea-life to areas unknown to them and will surly have its Consequences! If the coast of California will disappear into Mother Earth's Fluids(Oceans)...Surely...there will be a time that the Same will Manifest here in the country I live in...and other coast lines. This is one reason why my father chose to live in the central(inland) of the country we live in(ABOVE sea level). My dear father is always talking about Predictions and Prophecies from the past that he has see with his own eyes...come to pass; thus, awaits, in some way, the Rest to Fulfill its self...if this is meant to be...as Nature intends it to be. Edward. | ||
Walkerc New member Post Number: 1 Registered: 09-2005 |
Spiritual teachings: I believe there is an intensive spiritual development course available through FIGU. If anyone has done it - was it any good and is it available in English. Also what is the cost? Chris | ||
Markc Member Post Number: 228 Registered: 06-2000 |
Hi Chris ; The Spirit Lessons are only available to passive members , which is completely within reach . Contact info@figu.org for an application . They can inform you of the fees . Die Steimme der Wassermannzeit( The Voice of the Aquarian Age)is a quarterly publication by FIGU also in German which features articles and writings by Billy as well as other Core members and passive members . I personally recommend getting all of the pamphlets and books in English that you can first , because there is so much to learn from them that will be necessary further down the line ,should your interest grow ,as a foundation that will enable the Spirit Lessons to be completely understood . They are in German only , and you should be proficient in German before getting that far . There is plenty to learn this way , and a bit more is available through this forum , as more and more information finds it's way through postings of items of specific interest . Mark Mark Campbell | ||
Torrent Member Post Number: 24 Registered: 03-2003 |
Well, I have long tried to understand the Creational laws and applied them to my daily life, but I sometimes just can¡¯t understand why I should follow them while Creation itself looks extremely selfish and imposes itself on our lives. First of all, I should admit I sometimes considered committing a suicide. (I had many reasons to do so) The only reason I didn¡¯t do so is that I knew it was against the Creational laws and I didn¡¯t want to violate it. But nobody has explained in logical manner why it is a terrible thing to do. Just because it will delay our spiritual evolution? Well, we know that our evolution takes places for an immeasurably lengthy time and finishing this lifetime earlier than planned doesn¡¯t make much impact on it. That is true. Then let¡¯s go back to the very purpose of why the Creation created the spirits. We all know the answer, right? If so, don¡¯t you ever find it so cruel that the Creation creates numerous spirits and force them to undergo numerous lifetimes filled with so much pain, grief, loss, tragedies just in order to evolve itself in the end? The subtle issue here is that¡¦ though we are the parts of the Creation, we are also the individual beings until we become one with it¡¦..we can feel so much pain and unhappiness during our indefinite material lifetimes, but the Creations doesn¡¯t because it doesn¡¯t have a material life. In other words, it sits back there until we finish spiritual evolution and come back to deliver the perfect knowledge and wisdom to it. Do you find much love here we always talk about? And why is it such a bad thing to end my life while I have been given every decision over my life and can do whatever I want while the Creation¡¯s intention is nothing but for itself and it doesn¡¯t care much about all the extreme pains I have to go through? I would appreciate your logical answers, not just repeating what Billy or Jmmanuel said. Regards. | ||
Mhurley Member Post Number: 106 Registered: 04-2003 |
hi Torrent First of all, I should admit I sometimes considered committing a suicide. (I had many reasons to do so) The only reason I didn¡¯t do so is that I knew it was against the Creational laws and I didn¡¯t want to violate it. But nobody has explained in logical manner why it is a terrible thing to do. Just because it will delay our spiritual evolution? Well, we know that our evolution takes places for an immeasurably lengthy time and finishing this lifetime earlier than planned doesn¡¯t make much impact on it. That is true. Hypothetically, in your next life you could find yourself in another suicidle position and you could keep going round in a loop every lifetime. Regards Matt | ||
Tjames Member Post Number: 105 Registered: 12-2004 |
Hello Torrent, I just recently, five minutes ago caught myself wishing I weren't here after seeing the tireless traffic and a homeless guy asking for money at the corner added to all the things that are expected of me in my faimly. But, I quickly thought to myself how cowardly that is to run from my problems and selfish too as people around me are affected greatly by my presence (whether I conciously know this or sub-conciously). And I summoned as I do everyday the necessary strength, which, not only gets me by but gives me the courage to fight another day, as Michael Horns Cd says "It's more than just survival". A day that is here because of this Creational energy and because of previous "graduated" spirit forms who've applied their wisdom, which, is applied to help us and we must do the same because creation is spirit and spirit is us and we are it. And, if we choose the good fight the one primarily within in German it is called "innerer Streit" and without it there is no growing. I have figured that if we are faced with a struggle in life whether it be miniscuel or monumental, clearly obtainable or seemingly impossible, if we choose the "inner strife" than this is our battle (figuratively) to conquer because "when it's all said and done" we either look to the past or towards the future and re-examine our progress and I know it's not fun to do things twice , three, or more times. Not only is eachother what we've got but this creation, this spirit with a (broad) plan is what connects all of us through the most elemental of forces which is love, and that bond is impenetrable. Good luck, and please don't forget that for every struggle you fight and conquer(figuratively) that's just one more insight that you have attained for us ALL! Salome, Tim | ||
Torrent Member Post Number: 25 Registered: 03-2003 |
Hello, Matt. I appreciate your writing, but I already knew it. I brought up this question assuming we all already know the ¡®official answers¡¯ to suicide issues. (You could find yourself in another suicide position in next lifetimes) Instead, I just wanted to hear others¡¯ ¡®logical¡¯ answers or opinion based on your logical thinking regarding the intentions of the Creation as well, not just what Billy said in his books. Regards. | ||
Memo00 Member Post Number: 175 Registered: 03-2004 |
hi Torrent i hope you are doing fine yes, life can be very painful, but it can be also very beautiful and full of joy, a lot depends on your actions, much more than most people believe, focus less in the negative and more in the positive and things will change, it is unavoidable, pain will not disappear but you will see things very different if you can find peace and equilibrium, then and only then things make sense the Creation is not something outside of you, YOU AND I all of us, WE are the Creation every flower every stone every planet and every thought is the Creation when you wake up and look at the dawn you are seeing the Creation when you hug and kiss someone you like you are hugging and kissing Creation when you look at yourself at the mirror you are watching Creation Creation ia ALL that exists Creation is life itself this material life is just an illusion it is just a dream the more you learn in each life the sooner you will wake up and live the real life then you will exist in eternal extasis then as you were created you will participate of Creation and in the infinte mind entire worlds you will conceive. . . have you ever had a nightmare? it is not so bad once you discover you are dreaming . . . to commit suicide is something absurd, you are running away from pain but you are just prolonging it more than necessary, you are entering the same house using the back door. . . when you commit suicide you are not really running from circumstances or from others, you are running from yourself you can try but the truth is that sonner or later in this life or in another you will have to face yourself. . . ................................................. all is part of all all is one when you suffer a part of all suffers when you feel happy a part of all feels happy when you die a part of all dies too you are very important even if nobody seems to care about you no matter where i search, no matter how far i go, i will never find anyone like you. . . search and find peace search and find harmony then and only then when your mind is in equilibrium things will make sense comiting suicide is like leaving the cinema before the movie starts and you know what? it is the best movie ever ´cause it is being created by a mind that knows no limits and the best is that you are part of it | ||
Savio Member Post Number: 526 Registered: 07-2000 |
Hi Torrent You bought up a very good question, there is lots to think about  I share my thoughts here: 1. What if there is no Creation? Would we change our mind for suicide? 2. There is no right or wrong for Creation, as it does not judge. Hence suicide or not is just a choice, it leads to different consequence or experience. 3. Whatever happens within this universe is the plan of Creation, allowed within the natural laws, expected to happen and experience. 4. It is we that have to choose with the help of our knowledge, desire, situation…etc. 5. As we are part of Creation, we never parted, what we go through means Creation will go through the same, pain or joy, no selfish, we are one as always. 6. As we are part of Creation, we can think that we are Creation (one as always), we want to go thought all this to achieve perfection. Would this thought make us feel better? Still thinking... more input please... Regards Savio | ||
Torrent Member Post Number: 26 Registered: 03-2003 |
Hello, Memo00 and Savio. First to Memo00. Your poem is very beautiful. I agree with you. Life is both beautiful and painful (thus neutral). But to some people, life is just much more painful than beautiful. Even if life is neutral, life doesn’t work like a math for human beings (1-1=0) For example, if someone smacks your face (-) and take you to the hospital and get you treated (+),is it neutral? If you are blessed with having a beautiful son (+), but he is taken away by a car accident(-), is it neutral? Pain is more poignant and persistent than happiness. Life can’t be neutral when there is so much pain regardless of how much happiness you are also given. When the movie runs for the first 20 minutes, we already know what kind of movie it is or how entertaining it will be, then you can decide to walk out of the theater, because it is you who you bought the ticket and you have a right to say no to what doesn’t deserve your precious money and time. To Savio. Regarding your question ‘What if there is no Creation? Would we change our mind for suicide?’. I think it would be just wonderful and perfect without the universe in the first place and that is exactly my point. We know that Creation has existed throughout the time. But it created and spirits and the universe. For whom? Yes Creation itself. That is why I call this act rather selfish. And if you read Talmud of Jmmanuel carefully, you can see that Jmmanuel obviously condemns suicides by using the words ‘unjust, no right, deviate, violate’. Creation judges against suicide because it delays its evolution. Regards. | ||
Edward Member Post Number: 553 Registered: 05-2002 |
Hi Torrent... I am gratefully happy that you are still here to walk this beautiful planet and to have found the Significance of Creation. Life has its Ups and Downs, and WE ALL go through this "Life Processing". It Is very Human. One experiences more than the other...of course, but..One Should Just Keep On Hanging-On In There, so to speak, to experience the Effects and Out-Come of these Negative Causalities(encounters) that cross One's path(s). Positive fruits will surely bear from this all naturally...when the moment is right, and All Is In Place. It is indeed - An Art -...to keep One's self Sane and Alive...in this time and age. We live in a (very very) Confused era, as you may notice. And WE...are all part of this manifestation. It is best to Cope with these Negative encounters and manifestations Now..than in another life time/incarnation. Cope with Life's Reality Now, than you can Cope with it in your next incarnations! Than, such Unbalanced encounters would be a Piece Of Cake...so to speak, to take on..or to handle. Build up your "Stamina" NOW, than you will have Great use of this quality in your incarnations to come!!! ALWAYS...Stand Above Negativity and show that You Are The Boss..above such Unbalanced manifestations. Thus, we live in a time To TOUGHEN UP our Egos, to survive Life and all that surrounds us. Even Samjase and the Plejarans sensed Billy's life displeasing's; by all the Contra Actions taken against him(by ET and Earthly species) and, what he had to endure for The Mission, which would drive any human being Insane and into eliminating Oneself from his/her material life form...of being. Fortunately, Billy stands Above such manifestations and can - Still Deliver The Goods -...so to speak. Thus, it is Billy...we should take as a good example. And Live our Lives to Out-Live any Negative manifestations what so ever...That Comes Around The Corner. Do not let Harm prevent us from Perfecting ourselves!! And as they say: "Life Is As Hard... As You Make It!!" Edward. | ||
Mhurley Member Post Number: 107 Registered: 04-2003 |
I appreciate your writing, but I already knew it. I brought up this question assuming we all already know the ¡®official answers¡¯ to suicide issues. (You could find yourself in another suicide position in next lifetimes) Instead, I just wanted to hear others¡¯ ¡®logical¡¯ answers or opinion based on your logical thinking regarding the intentions of the Creation as well, not just what Billy said in his books. Hi Torrent, my response was based on my own logical thoughts. I didn't realise what i had written had already been written by Billy:-) Matt | ||
Memo00 Member Post Number: 176 Registered: 03-2004 |
hi again Torrent well the thing is as simple as this: you want it or not you are here, and there is nothing you can do about it, you can run, you can dive, you can jump from the highest cliff in the world and kill yourself and still one day you will wake up and realize that you are alive and that things are not always easy BUT YOU CAN CHANGE THEM, YOU HAVE THE POWER THEN WHY THEN YOU DON´T USE IT??? instead of crying, instead on blaming on anyone or anything else, DO SOMETHING this world in which we live is unfortunately sick, it is unbalanced, but that it is not going to be forever like that, everything changes if today we live in hell one day we will live in paradise, but you don´t have to wait until the entire world changes, cause you can change yourself, you can change your inmediate surroundings, through struggle, through hard work all your dreams can become true if for you pain seems to be greater than joy, if sadness seems to be more powerful than happines it is because you have not found true balance, you have to clean your head from all the garbage, you have to forget about the stupid demands of this sick society, trust only in nature, trust only in yourself, your true self life is good life is beautiful and infinitely mysterious things are very f...d up in this planet by very particular circumstances and that is why Billy is here (i imagine you already have) but if you havent read the info about overpopulation in the website (to read it again will not harm you) a lot of things that make people loose their will to live are the result of overpopulation, a lot of things that keep us from enjoying the simple fact of being alive the more we are the less we know each other the more we are the less we care about other persons suffering and air becomes venomous and the mind of people perverse we live among the garbage like if its has been always like this and all of this is the result of thousands of years of brainwashing, and all of this is the result of those idiotic religions and things are not going to change magically but you can help yourself and with that help the entire world a little one by one, we can make a difference, so that in our next life we will live in a better world | ||
Tjames Member Post Number: 106 Registered: 12-2004 |
Torrent, No response to my posting?!! Anyway, I would like to point out that you elavated Jmmanuel to the Creation itself when you said... "you can see that Jmmanuel obviously condemns suicides by using the words ‘unjust, no right, deviate, violate’. Creation judges against suicide because it delays its evolution." I know that the connection between us (our spirits) and that of creation can sometimes seem murkey at best, but elevating Jmmanuel as Creation is similar to how Christianity became. That's like me calling Billy Meier the entire Creation. It doesn't sound right does it. Remember: no pain no gain. Saalome, Tim | ||
Torrent Member Post Number: 27 Registered: 03-2003 |
Hello, guys. I appreciate that many guys have shared good ideas with me here. For your information, though, I should let you know that I have long studied Billy case (8 years) and read all the relating books written in English and Japanese, so I think I already know as much as I should before I admit so. So it is not that I posted my writing in this section because I didn’t know what you guys wanted to say. (The question is, whether I have been successful applying my knowledge to my everyday, of which I am not quite sure) Therefore it is just a little disappointing that nobody has come up with reasonable and logical answers to my questions so far (the very intention of the universe, and why suicide is a terrible thing to do). Frankly, I might already know the answers…. Billy and Jmmanuel probably told us almost everything there is to know… but when you can’t comprehend the situations and can’t find the logic behind them, you start to seek other explanations. To Edward, your way of dealing with the negativities is just wonderful. I also tried to remind myself of all the struggles Billy had to endure whenever I had to face the my own difficulties. It is great to know that there is someone who thinks like I do. To Mhurley, if you had really deduced the effects of suicide on reincarnations out of your own thinking, you are a great thinker. I sincerely pay my respect to your knowledge and wisdom. Tjames, I am afraid that you totally misunderstood me. I didn’t elevate Jmmanuel to Creation. Jmmanuel used those words ‘unjust, no right, deviate, violate’ from the perspective of Creation, not from himself, and I said Creation (not Jmmanuel) judges against it. If you read this suicide section in Talmud of Jmmanuel yourself, you will see what I mean. Regards. | ||
Savio Member Post Number: 527 Registered: 07-2000 |
Hi Torrent I would continue sharing my thoughts… Life does have lots of difficulties, a successful person will thank Creation for it, yet an unsuccessful person will complain for the hardships. It seems that our point of view against Creation depend on some kind of “value”. If we are all successful in our daily lives, we may not say that Creation is selfish. As for Jmmanuel’s commend in the TJ, I think it is only his own opinion, and he is only human. If we think that it is right to live life as long as possible to learn, then, Jmmanuel was right, and he was for the benefit of every human. Any way, we should not put words into the month of Creation, as Creation never judges. Regards Savio | ||
Scott Moderator Post Number: 709 Registered: 12-1999 |
Hi Torrent, I thought about your ideas concerning suicide. Today for the most part many people live fairly material lives. To takes one’s life is a material act in a sense. You are doing away with whatever external events are troubling you. You may have a grave illness and live in constant pain, but again that is a material act based on material experience. Granted these things are based on our level of evolution and that is all we know, because we perceive life through our material senses. I think what is missing here is the true and concrete knowledge that each and every human life form carries within it a Spirit which gives the body and all material life existence. I feel that once we truly know the existence of this Spirit, then our whole perceptions of life and evolution will change. Once the powers of this Spirit within are truly understood and utilized we then are able to bring about miracles within our own lives which can surly enhance our individual existences. This does not mean that we will not have challenges to overcome, but I think it will draw into clear focus that life does indeed have purpose and meaning beyond what our material senses tell us. Regards Scott | ||
Tjames Member Post Number: 107 Registered: 12-2004 |
If your're not overrun with too many responses Torrent... You supposidly already knew all the answers??!! So you asked "(The question is, whether I have been successful applying my knowledge to my everyday, of which I am not quite sure)" Only you will know this for sure and no one else!! We can give thoughtful and logical advice but if one is not thinking logical to recieve than surely that response to the advice will be illogical. I have not been given reason/evidence to think otherwise. "Therefore it is just that nobody has come up with reasonable and logical answers to my questions so far (the very intention of the universe, and why suicide is a tee disappointing that Terrible thing to do)." As you admited, you are not sure about the success of your applied knowlege. First of all it sounds reasonable that you ask others for questions about something that you want to see different perspectives on, no problem here. But, when close to five people pour kind thoughtful words as a response and you say that "nobody has come up with reasonable and logical answers" it makes me wonder if you even under stand the fundamentals of creation as you claim. Now, I of all people should know how rough life can be, but, we of all people here of the figu forum should and has a personal duty to know that there is a higher purpose and good in everyones life dictated by free will; subatomically arranged by creation. I do think I know where you are coming from, however I do not think that you understand where I am (as you claimed many of the previous posts were not "Reasonable" or "logical"??!" Dude, Creation does not judge, that is a fact and a fundamental of life. If you think you found an example of when you think creation (re-study the FIGU meaning of Creation) judged you, then I would kindfully suggest that you re-examine the scenario as I am 100% sure if there was a judging process that it was not done by creations pure energy but by human intervention, (not necessarily by you) ill thought processes and erroneous assumptions. We can judge eachother just as long as it is not done "FALSLEY". The free will that you were born with does allow you to murder yourself, however you also have a right to the consequenses of that crime against yourself and that of humanity. Torrent, have you ever done something that you KNEW you had to like feeding yourself or taking care of your children and that if you didn't "not good" things would happen because not only would you starve but your children may get lost, injur , starve or kill themselves without you. If you have children BY CHOICE than it IS YOUR DUTY TO TAKE CARE OF THEM. We have chosen this life to learn these lessons at this time in this way and Creation has aligned everything so that everything can evolve. When we don't fulfil our most basic duties, the most basic being living than we do commit a horrendus crime by sidetracking EVERYONE'S evolution. Also in the same way that letting yourself be victimized by a robber or rapist or murderer, without doing anything is a spiritual crime against your self. Free will is present only becasue Creation does not judge (think about this) If creation judged, only one time, that statement would be false, but it's true. We must use logic and reasonably think through the consequences of all our actions and their implication towards all things. I hope this helps a little, I know you already claimed you knew, as i'm sure you did on some level as everyone does on "some level". Honestly, studying the material 8 years or eight months, wisdom is obtained through millions/billions/trillions, plus years of evolution. One could honestly spend 16 and still be struggling with the same material as some things like meditation, psychic abilities and telekenisis would take that long but we are discussing CONCEPTS. Truly, it's not how long you've studied but "of what quality". Is this is not logical? Saalome, Tim | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 54 Registered: 07-2004 |
Hi Torrent, I normally would ask for more of your personal information to help answer the challenge you are facing, but something stopped me from doing this. I was reading your initial post and your position on the selfishness you sense in Creation. I pondered what you were envisioning Creation as being like. I tried to be you as you were creating this idea and impression of what Creation was like for your experience in this lifetime. I sensed you saw Creation as a knowable personality that had no time for your concerns and was waiting impatiently for you to hurry up and get done with your role in it's business. Maybe even a cold, callous, " selfish " and authoritative parent-like entity. I found my mind( being yours at that moment) feeling itself forgotten about from a child's viewpoint and a lonely sensation as if I didn't have anyone to care about who I was. Like a person left at home and everyone else were off together celebrating as a family. If I were this person, I could believe that I wasn't needed and that the world was set up with a uncaring, unloving spirit who wasn't going to reach out and help it's offspring in a equal manner. But as I revert back to my minds reality, and think back years ago when I too believed I had no real love from my surroundings, and how wrong I was about the feelings people around me had for me, I see what could of been a easy answer for me, or you . Of course my hindsight is easy now. In truth, I was loved, and I had been allowing the sorrow of life to enjoy my attention. I could only see what was wrong with the events around me. It seemed whoever was supposed to be my greater overseer, kept the best elements of life from me. A selfish "God" created my world If this world we live in, including all the rest of the universe, is from a Creation that is learning( evolving ) from what we discover through our experiencing, and you believe it is selfish, the most logical reason to not commit suicide would be to effect change in the evolution of Creation. What you learn becomes Creations understanding and it's ability to evolve to a greater creation. You will effect the outcome of the next form. So if you think that Creation is selfish, your actions will either enforce the reality or effect a better change. To end your life prematurely then becomes a selfish act in it self. The value of each lifetime can be thought of as unnoticeable by such a massive idea that is Creation. But what if the experiences of all it's creations are downloaded in the hopes of finding that one moment it was still trying to discover for it's growth. We cannot know what the effect we will have upon our re-emerging with All That Is. It took an unbelievable amount of planning and energy to be alive in this moment. I also know that being a human means you are producing all your feelings and emotions through your ability to create chemicals in your body. Have you tried changing your diet which can have an incredible shift in someone's attitude. I'm by no means a professional councilor, just hoping I could lend a hand. Shawn a friend in america Shawn | ||
Consolato Member Post Number: 14 Registered: 10-2005 |
hi torrent, why don't you put a post in to the billy meier answered questions section explaining your situation to billy and see what he has to say which might be of benefit to you? I'm sure he'll give you the best answer to help you in your emotional situation. However the meier questions section is temporarly closed. Why don't you ask a moderator if they would let you sneak your post/question in to billy meier. I'm sure no-one would mind given your circumstances. take care con | ||
Torrent Member Post Number: 28 Registered: 03-2003 |
First to Tim. I think you are kind of guy who suddenly jumps into the discussion group and messes up the whole spirit of discussion by personally attacking people whom you find wrong and also try hard to disprove other people. Then those offended will forget about the discussion itself and instead focus on defending themselves or even attacking you back. I won’t do it here. It doesn’t matter how much you know or how right you are, but once you hurt other people’s feelings, the discussion goes nowhere. So I will just ignore your comments. To Savio. I agree with you a lot. (a successful person will thank Creation for it, yet an unsuccessful person will complain for the hardships. If we are all successful in our daily lives, we may not say that Creation is selfish). However, the point we shouldn’t miss is how we can become successful when the pain is so enormous and persistent that you just can’t overcome it. If you want to reach that success level, you shouldn’t stop. But in reality, there are many people who can’t do anything about the pain and the cruel life events… they can’t be successful because they can’t feel happy and peaceful inside. Yes, many people here might say ‘well, you should overcome anyway. I had also lots of difficulties in my life, but I survived and I am happy now’. But what if someone’s pain is 100 times greater than the worst one you had? Are you honestly sure you can still overcome it? Hello, Shawn. There seems to be your misunderstanding regarding how I percept Creation (I sensed you saw Creation as a knowable personality that had no time for your concerns and was waiting impatiently for you to hurry up and get done with your role in it's business). My question, in other words, is for what we should deal with painful reincarnation process. Yes, if I could overcome it, we would get knowledge and wisdom. And when we accumulate enough knowledge and wisdom over numerous lifetimes, we will pass on them to Creation by merging with it. Then what do we get in return for our numerous painful experiences? Yes, in the end, there won’t be any division between our beings and Creation because they are the one, but at this moment, we are separate beings from Creation with unique, separate personalities who can’t therefore avoid feeling painful. (Though, at the same time, we are a part of it) That is why I find Creation selfish. Frankly, I feel so humiliated to call Creation selfish which I have paid my best respect to for a long time… but I’ve reached a conclusion like the above and can’t shake this new finding off my head. I will patiently wait for your logical explanations why and where my logic is wrong. Regards. | ||
Tjames Member Post Number: 110 Registered: 12-2004 |
Torrent, I honestly am sometimes very shortsighted, and with consideration that ends short of considerate. unlike that of creations I am imperfect and sometimes when I read and read how pressing the global events impact me I just press onto other people, yes, necessary at times, but completely unecessary at others. This is one of those times I pushed when I needed to hold and nurture. On my part a lack of experience as I am deepley disturbed that you will wait for our logical explanations without thinking it through like you were and as we all should. I appologize, and hope you will forgive my harsh words as this has lately been my form of communication and hope that you "Forgive yourself" as well just like Michael Horns cd says. Truly, Tim | ||
Edward Member Post Number: 556 Registered: 05-2002 |
Hi Torrent... If I may pitch in... You mentioning to Shawn.. "My question, in other words, is for what we should deal with painful reincarnation process. Yes, if I could overcome it, we would get knowledge and wisdom. And when we accumulate enough knowledge and wisdom over numerous lifetimes, we will pass on them to Creation by merging with it. Then what do we get in return for our numerous painful experiences?" Well, of course your Question IS Your Answer!! Of course we accumulate a considerable amount of CREATIONAL Knowledge and Wisdom. And as we go along, every incarnation grants us to occupy an incarnation of much more Knowledge and Wisdom. At the same time, we "Purify" our ourselves even to greater extents. Thus, leaving the "Pain" processing behind us as we evolve along the way to Perfection. Even Creation had to under go much processing within the Absolute Absolutum!! Thus, We are not to feel uncomfortable to such Hardships(Pain) of our incarnations. It is just a Natural event/processing to undergo such Hardships to gain Experience and Perfection. Than One reaches the merging with Creation; you are doing all that you have done/experienced in your past incarnations NOT only for Creation...BUT FOR YOUR SELF!!: As Part of Creation and as an Individual OF Creation. The more One Overcomes and Copes their Hardships within their existence (incarnations) the more One reaches One's True purpose and Goal which is the Merging/Uniting with Creation. Either One utilizes One's Knowledge and Wisdom, in the incarnations, or not. This is up to every individual. If One does not utilize One's Common Sense, Logic and Reason, and his/her Knowledge and Wisdom, in their incarnations, well, surely they will even Delay/Stagnate their own evolution processing due to/by their OWN fault: - OWN HUMAN SELFISHNESS!! -. Thus, One has the possibility to Evolve with Knowledge and Wisdom, or just Evolve....to Evolve! This is up to every individual: him/her self. Thus, if One Evolves with true Knowledge and Wisdom, this Individual Spirit-Form can truly claim its own true achievements because of its Individual coping with, and thus has earned its True Spiritual Status of Being. Honestly EARNED! Thus, as you can notice Torrent, it is up to the individual Spirit-Form to achieve its goal..in any matter, it wishes. Even though One may have more Negative confrontations in his/her life-times than others. Cope and "Dodge" these confrontations with your utmost Knowledgable abilities. This is just How It Is, in the EXISTENCE Processing. Again, Creation..just as WE...must undergo such Evolution Processing. That is just part of the PERFECTION processing within EXISTENCE. And thus, NOT SELFISH OF CREATION, or even The Absolute Absolutum!! Life and Existence...are just - NOT A HAND OUT!! One has to WORK for it; to become... what it has to become: Higher Spiritual Spirit Form. As Creation becoming a Higher Creational Creation Form. And as The Absolute Absolutum is to become an even a more Higher Absolute Absolutum.. ABSOLUTUM Form(at)!! Etc...etc...etc....etc..... Thus, we are not doing this all for only Creation, BUT...likewise...FOR OURSELVES!!! Within THE UNITY OF CREATION. Just an example. A painter paints a painting in Layers. He starts out with making a rough sketch on the canvas of what he wants to paint. Than he places his first rough layer. Than, after that; he places forth another layer, which is somewhat finer that the one before. Than, after that; he places forth another layer, which is somewhat finer that the one before that. Than, after that one; he places forth another layer, which is somewhat finer that the one before that. And go so on! By bringing forth these layers, he Perfections the painting to its Ultimate and Absolute Finest and Beauty. And thus, to its Ultimate and Absolute Absolutum..Beauty Of Being. Thus, So IS Life and Existence, also. We ALL start out as ROUGH/COARSE components and gradually Refine ourselves through our incarnations. Gradually Perfecting ourselves: incarnation...after incarnation. Refining every incarnation after incarnation. Just like the artist refining his painting and to achieve PERFECTION. So, Torrent, what you achieve in your incarnations/lifetimes, as a Knowledgeable and Wise Spirit-Form, will also Perfect your surrounding, and so on. Your Positive INPUT which you have achieved will surely and truly "RUB OFF" so to speak, on others, to achieve Peace and Harmony, and which can offspring itself further into our daily lives and the Future, and Beyond! This alas, does have to be achieved through Life's Hardships(Pains). Thus, you can notice, One is truly well Rewarded when coping with these "Inevitable" Evolution confrontations. I was thinking the other day, of this. May sound somewhat cliche, but I know it will sound familiar to you. And it was this: "Ask not what Creation can do for you, BUT....ask what YOU can do for Creation!" Thus, One does not only Perfect Creation, but also Oneself. For me, it IS an Honor. What a Grandiose way to achieve PERFECTION, and as an Individual Spirit-Form. Creational Selfishness is..Unheard of, for me. "Human Selfishness" puts itself more in place, here. Thus, when it comes down to the point, it is ALL TEAM WORK!! A Collective Processing of Individuals within Creation, and we are Not doing this all just only for our Collective Creation, but again: FOR OUR SELVES!! Let us not be "Selfish Human Beings"!! BTW: And as Savio mentioned that Suicide is a "Choice"; I would fully agree with him. Suicide is a "SELFISH" choice!! One only thinks of One's self, and not the Consequences One generates/leaves behind(Stagnating One's OWN Material and Spiritual Evolution Processing, family, friends...etc..). Thus, this is a very very SELFISH human Trait, which One has to overcome and let such a "Fainthearted" deed disintegrate from One's consciousness. So,- CONSCIOUS Suicide - is a very very Cowardice and SELFISH Choice. No matter how heavy the weight is on One's shoulders, generated by One's surrounds, or One's self. Stand Above such Negative confrontations!! Through future incarnation the Hardships will gradually Diminish, and than there will be a time when One comes to Comprhend the facts as they should be encountered. And as the saying goes:"What You Start...You Finish!!" Edward. | ||
Newinitiation Member Post Number: 38 Registered: 07-2005 |
Dear Torrent Torrent I don't want to be so insensitive but it's my sincere intentions to help even though it wasn't asked of me. Whatever the reason maybe, whether your suicidal feelings and thoughts were either brought on by depression or other mental illness, loss of a loved one and so you are in mourning, economic hardship, lack of companion, anxiety disorder, just general feeling of meaninglessness, inner emptiness, loss of any purpose or true meaning in life where life seems so bland and so gray, crowded with perpetual negative thoughts and feelings you just cannot shake off and it eats you away from within in the form of sharp pin pricks to your heart or whatever the cause or the effect maybe, behind the words you wrote, there seems to be some desperation and frustration coupled with hidden motives to want some sort of attention or sympathy from others for the pain that you are suffering but truly call me ignorant or a busy body or whatever but you must WAKE UP, You must heal yourself from within by addressing the way you feel each moment because sometimes we all know our emotions and feelings especially the negative ones can become a runaway train without us having the strength or the knowhow to control it. Please understand that it is a lonely place to be and the struggle may keep on getting harder and harder as you fight each day to come out of the grave in which you have dug yourself each day and there are many. I don't pretend here to have the solution to your problem only that when you come out of it at the end of the long tunnel you would realise it wasn't so bad afterall and that the pain you feel today isn't as intense as it was yesterday when and if you find that inner sanctuary and understanding within yourself. This is up to you to find and in the mean time you must wade through alot of S... to get there. If I had a suggestion no matter how illogical it would be for you to leave this information and the truth aside for awhile, gain some different perspective from the general life, go somewhere quite but not to the point of avoiding other people, don't read too much but emerse yourself in some activities be it physical, or social. The bottom line is to find a way to confront your problems head on instead of escaping it, what little victories that means something to you you make each day by overcoming your fears will strengthen you. Peace be with you | ||
Savio Member Post Number: 528 Registered: 07-2000 |
Hi Torrent Your question is also a question for many as well as for those thinkers I think, the question: “whether Creation is selfish” will only be raised by those thinkers, not just any person. Hence the question will only be settled by reasoning, logic and understanding. Now, could those who suffer great pain utilize their reasoning and logic? If yes, they will understand what their pain is for; if no, they will not have asked that question at all. If our hearts have self-awareness, would they complain that we are selfish in setting them to work 24/7 until the end of life? The fishes in the sea have no self-awareness, they too will have to struggle all through their lives…. we are part of the plan, we have self-awareness, and we understand. Something from the Buddha’s teaching: if we understand the truths behind all the happenings, we will have no fear, no pain…. Perhaps understanding and reasoning is the only key… Still thinking… Savio | ||
Mgilbo1 Member Post Number: 29 Registered: 09-2002 |
Hi Torrent, Why should you not commit suicide? I don't think there is any one reason for this since I think we know too LITTLE about creation itself to really know why. My guess is compare it to football. If one player is screwing up or not taking his position seriously, it messes up the team. I would say ALL humans in the universe are on a team striving for one goal. But if you kill yourself, not only did you fail yourself but the TEAM failed you as well. As its been stated, were all in this together and every action you make has a reaction somewhere in the future. By killing yourself, you are messing up the pre-destined reactions. I say pre-destined because I believe in some ways your life is just that. But you have the FREE WILL not to follow it. Maybe by you killing yourself, your messing up someone else's pre-destined life as well. Maybe they were supposed to meet you or maybe you would of had a major impact on their life, but now you won't since you chose to abolish this life out of selfishness or self pity. Basically, you screwed up the plan.. Now I may be way off base, and maybe I don't make sense but what you are asking is not going to be solved in this lifetime and my guess we'll need many more to understand it thoroughly. Its a good question though. Mark U.S. Mark Gilbo | ||
Torrent Member Post Number: 29 Registered: 03-2003 |
Hello guys. First hello to Newinitiation. You seem focused too much on me, rather than my questions. It is true that I’ve shown enough how much I have suffered (not specifically, though), but I had to do so in order to make other understand how those pains led me into questioning the very intentions of Creation. I started wondering why I had to face those endless sufferings, not just once, which I didn’t deserve at all because I did all my best to change or even improve myself and the situations and it even added up to more pains inside. Because we already know reincarnations are full of pains and hardships, I concluded that, maybe, the existence itself was the cause of the pains. (no existence, no pain). Then did I bring about my own existence? No. Creation did. If I were Creation itself, I shouldn’t complain because it was my own decision to undergo reincarnations. But I am not Creation, merely being a part of it, and Creation surely put me in this circle of reincarnations and gave me an individual personality. So can you understand why I brought up this issue? I didn’t want to get any sympathy or attention from others, but their logical answers to my questions. I hope.. and even believe… that I will overcome this hardship soon. But this unanswered question will always remain heavy on my mind. To Edward. I probably couldn’t more agree with you before… but now… I feel a little different. You forgot the very first intention of Creation to create spirits. You say ‘you have done/experienced in your past incarnations NOT only for Creation...BUT FOR YOUR SELF’. Well, we have to do so because we were created and brought in this world by Creation. We have no other choice. But you shouldn’t forget Creation didn’t create spirits for those spirits as opposed to your opinion. It created spirits for its own evolution while each spirit’s evolution is a natural outcome, not the goal from the beginning, according to Billy’s manifestations. The issue isn’t whether or how we should deal with the pains or hardships (many seem to emphasize this), but why and for what, the original intentions of Creation. You also said ‘Creation..just as WE...must undergo such Evolution Processing’. Yes, it is a processing, but not pains. Does Creation, during it is evolution processing, suffer loss of loved ones, job, business, or extreme physical pains or terrible diseases, tortures, famine, abuses? No, Creation doesn’t go through them. We do. Why? Because Creation created us. Nevertheless, you are absolutely right. I couldn’t find any questions, doubts or complaints Billy or his Plejaren friends held toward Creation. It looks like… we just should follow ‘Laws and Commandments of Creation’ without questioning them. Rigards. | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 56 Registered: 07-2004 |
Torrent, Creation created us to share and love something other than itself. a friend in america Shawn | ||
Tjames Member Post Number: 112 Registered: 12-2004 |
Hello Torrent and to all, I do think it is possible to follow the Laws and "Commandments" of Creation and to question them. I've given this statement thought, and I've figured that if we don't question things like "Is creation selfish?" and we think that it is then we need to figure out why and likewise for one who has a hunch that "creation is not selfish". If we have seen evidence then this (alteast helps me) understand the true workings of this Universe. I may not have your answers for this topic but I do have some ideas and have thought about it like this: Where would our level of understanding about physical laws be right now if Issac Newton didn't follow the processes of the necessary evolution through examining and questioning the laws of physics? We may not have any information in textbooks about it leaving out important sections and ideas of momentum and gravity. It would be nearly 200 years before before the next Science icon would arrise. I think Newtons visoinary and thoughtfull mentality provided the world with the tiny baby steps and ultimately gigantic steps to aid humanity. We are all examples of this in every concievable way. As each discovery, scientific or not ultimately is applied as wisdom, gained through the spirit is advanced through its previous understandings. Simple concepts but easier explained than experienced. The basic fundamentals of (good) Science and incidentally the anti-thesis of religion is that of questioning life and all of its mysteries. I have read some peoples ideas that state the 10 or (12 commandments in our case) is something that we should follow because this ensures natural progression as everything that it encompasses nature follows. I have read that the commandments were simply guidlines for the people to follow and not actual things "commanded by force" or "your made to do something" we have the free will. Which, is how we mess so much up, but also can choose to learn and grow. Either way we do grow, but who wants to spend downtime with no progress. Additionally, I feel questiong is fundamental to the human existence and I think when we stop, we stagnate. Take present-day American culture for example... we are so consumed every form of media with its sports industry, 400 channels of distraction, only with very few authentic programs like Nature, Nova, but even through the news we can get distracted from asking such basic questions like "where do I really come from". And why would one ask these questions if they were already answered in religions anyway. Same applies to FIGU if we want wholesome growth. As so wonderfully stated by Jmmanuel,"for whosoever asks of their spirit, will receive; and whosoever seeks through the power of their spirit, will find; and whosoever knocks at the door of their spirit, to that person will it be opened" in my words: if we seek inwardly towards our spirit in truth and with diligence we will find the answers we seek, and some outward too, the answers will undoubtedly unfold. And surely this process through our will to "truck on" so to speak in a way where we upgrade our(human body) "truck" as needed, or when its parts are beyond repair an arrangement is made through a(creation) dealer where your choice for a (reincarnation)new truck can be made according to your(needed experience)needs and adaptations. (A little rough, but I hope it conveys my idea.) Sorry if I sound patronizing as there was none intended. In Peace, Tim | ||
Edward Member Post Number: 557 Registered: 05-2002 |
Hi Torrent... Pleasant to know that you understand what I mean. I must say, it is very difficult to explain it all in a manner of simplicity. English not being my native language. But still, I try to do my best for people to understand what I am trying to get across..to them. Yes, of course, it speaks for itself that Creation Generated the Spirits. And of course, we do have to accept the life that has ben given to us by Creation. Just like a new born Child that enters the world. This would be the best comparison. The Spirit and the Child are on there own, even though they may not want to be in such a predicament. And thus, try and make the most of it. Of course, Creation generates Spirits for its own evolution, and even: our OWN evolution. One can not exist without the other, not? Again, it is TEAM WORK. And not only Creation benefits here from, but even WE...as individual Spirit-Forms. As we Grow in evolution, so does Creation. Just as any Evolving BODY would do. I can understand your concern with the Hardships(Pains). On our planet, the Hardships are just so Intense and Hard for many to cope with, alas to say. It was just all Destined to be that way, alas(by certain circumstances). And seeing that our world governments, not truly taking the correct measures into proper Directions: the Hardships will only become even HARDER/GREATER. Naturally, in other systems of the Universe or Creation, other Scenarios would take place, than the same as here are Earth. Some planets may have much more Hardships than we, as we can also acknowledge from Billy; and some planets are just fortunate to have less Hardships than we. So, the Hardships do differ...in Evolution path. Well, naturally, WE as a TEAM, have to keep Creation ALIVE, and OURSELVES. Just as all atoms and what not's in our own Human Body, has to do the same. So, Creation is Dependent on us, as we are Dependant on Creation; and as We as Human Beings are Dependant on our Atoms and what not's; and the Atoms and what not's are Dependant on us. So, when it comes down to the point, "The Duality" plays a significant role here, just as the Spirit and The Physical Body. And the Spirit and the Consciousness; and what more do have we? So, I would think that Creation is WELL AWARE..of what is manifesting within itself. And thus, IS able to Sense The Hardships that is being Processed within Creation. Just as we would, when our body is in Unbalance and in Disharmony. This is just a Common manifestation. And if much Hardships within Creation are "Stubborn", surely Creation will "Remedy" itself and generate the needed steps to bring Creation back into Balance and Harmony. Visa Versa, would be the case also with us human beings, not? Again, it is pleasant to know your understanding into the insight of my postings. As you Read and Learn more about what Billy and the Plejarans have to say, the more the puzzle parts come in place. One just has to have very very much Patience. There is SO MUCH to be learned. And One can not learn this all in one life-time, as you may know. Some just have an advantage of understanding The Teachings more, because of their ET Roots or being elderly, compared to others and younger Spirit-Forms. Just take it all Step By Step. Every incarnation is a Greater Step to Understanding, Knowledge and Wisdom. Naturally, we should Adapt the ‘Laws and Commandments of Creation’ without questioning them, into our daily lives. As much as possible. By doing so, we make our existence, and even for Creation, much much more pleasant: just as a human body, that is being taken good care of. I admire your Knowledge, Torrent. You are very very well informed cornering Billy's and Plejaran's materials. Your doing fine. Keep up the good work. Edward. | ||
Dplotmach Member Post Number: 83 Registered: 09-2004 |
Here is another article I've published on the internet. Tell me what you think. "LOVE, A PART OF THE UNIVERSAL CREATIONAL TRUTH FOR THE EVOLUTION OF MAN Love has the ability to bind us togeter. Hate has the consequence of destruction of possible/existing relationships that could bring fruit. One of the few positive christian laws, goes as this: "Do to others, what you would like others to do to you". To ensure the evolution of the human, we must live in a world consisting of freedom and understanding. This is destroyed, when the ultimate consequence of the opposite is death and destruction. This law is currently infected with negative elements of religion. It might be that these teachings was altered, and twisted to suit the power-hungry, among other reasons. If we find the truth about what really is the cause for our religions, we might get the ability to in the beginning realize that this is an universal rule to establish a good society, and suitable to the humans conciousness, and also a human desire that it can't live without. Hate is therefore unlogical. The wise person is full of love, because it has recognized the eternally valid creational laws. The spirit then has to be full of love, since it is the part of the human that makes us think logical. Thus, the pathway to spiritual perfection goes through love. The ultimate purpose of Creation has to be consisting of logic and knowledge, because it leads to love. Reincarnation must therefore be a law, in order to advance the spiritual perfection unto we are perfect in love, knowledge and Logic.Therefore, Creation must be Love itself. Instead of talking about a "heaven" for the human to go after death, it should be enough to say: Creation, Truth, Knowledge, Wisdom, Spirit and Existence." | ||
Dplotmach Member Post Number: 84 Registered: 09-2004 |
(A new publication of mine, might seem a little amateurish, but what the heck :D ) The natural law: You Shall Not Kill An attempt to explain the matter, through logic. This writing is far from finished, just sharing some points. To kill another human is a consequence of natural brainprocesses, that is eternally valid. In fact, natures consequences creates even more consequences. This applies also to the brain, that is part of nature, and in most cases a society. One can kill because of basic needs like food, water, housing, and love. Just some of the reasons that is. The consequence of killing, leads to hate in the deceased ones familiy/society, and further more leads to hate against the murderer(s), and its domineering society in relation to the available resources. One is also emotionally connected to the killed one(s) more or less, and this also leads to hate.The person(s) will then, quite possibly, start a "revenge-campaign", as in killing the murderers. Even worse, killing of innocents, that breeds even more hate. This commence in wars. The emotions is out of control, and is dominated by (of-course) hate and anxiety. The fantasy and intellect will be used to create weapons and planning/speculating on how to defeat the enemy. All this leads to enormous suffering, to the end that most of the people are exterminated. Many material resources have been destroyed, and the emotions can be strongly disturbed, with the consequence depression and anxiety. Also, the brain can be so pressed to the max that it "short-circuits", as the conciousness becomes deformed. Then, the old functions of the single human might be largely destroyed, that leads to the societys degeneration into a formerly passed degree of society/technology/culture. This is very unhealthy for the evolution of the common man(the only possible consequence might be learning this natural law). The evolution mentioned here is about the prospering of the intellect and emotional stability. Philosophy becomes an essential part ofr again building up the society from the ruins. An important element in this is forgiveness, that leads to a stop in the destructive chain of reactions. Love and friendship leads to positive interactions between the parties involved. A questionable way, can be exploiting the desire for belief from the unevolved human, that will lead to a strict morality, that the largest part of the people will follow. It is important, if it is abolutely neccesary to create a religion, to include the hight ideals in the human, f.ex all-emcompassive love, and that science and steps forward is positive (largely neglected by current religions on earth).Or else this religion can seduce the humans in the particular society(it may also expand) in generations, and lead to wars. Then it might become as it has been before, maybe even worse. This quote from Albert Einstein might apply to this: "I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 71 Registered: 07-2004 |
Hi Dplotmach, I am sorry but some of what you post in the last few articles are either incomplete sentences, not clear, or misspelled and I don't want to comment on your writings from a misunderstanding due to a grammatical error. I do comprehend some of it, but as a whole it's a little foggy. Spend some additional time on the structure and proper grammar aspects as well as the ideas. I think personally any attempt at relating this information we all have enjoyed and grown from is one of the key elements we should strive for. In this I salute your efforts. I believe you shall eventually conquer your challenges and more people will be able to enjoy the greater wisdom Billy shares with us and our world deserves. a friend in america Shawn | ||
Kiril Member Post Number: 36 Registered: 12-2005 |
Dplotmach: Exellent effort. Also your choice of topic is highly commandable, congratulations. Kiril | ||
Dplotmach Member Post Number: 89 Registered: 09-2004 |
Thank you Kiril (hope these postings does not annoy people) "DO NOT BLASPHEME THE TRUTH! Man does not recognize the truth, because of beliefsystems and a generally unevolved intelligence. Also, there is not enough scientific facts to be totally sure about everything. Religious people tend to hate the truth, as most of it is not considered correct according to their teachings. It seems like they will rather stay blind than aknowledge the often, harsh truth. The christian church has burned scriptures that contradicted their narrow reality-view, and burned people who came with new discoveries. This continues even today. Islam and several other man-hating religions still will not recognize basic truth, enslaves people, meaning that they are not allowed to examine and publish new facts. And also does not give people their natural rights in the world, killing and molesting people only because of a culture that has been destroyed because of pure ignorance and distorted scriptures (still questionable). Since the human is a being that is bound by Creation to evolve in conciousness, in logic, truth and wisdom, it is a basic heresy to all of natures laws for evolution. We can see the destruction and misery in our world because of religion, but still we do not call it what it is, a TERRIBLE HERESY. When religious leaders still preach this lies because of personal power-hunger and fanatism, they blaspheme the truth. Therefore they blaspheme the other important co-existing elements of creation. These are, as mentioned before, the Truth, Knowledge, Wisdom, the Spirit, true Existence and Nature, namely the all-encompassing CREATION." | ||
Der_beobachter Member Post Number: 54 Registered: 05-2003 |
Arahat Athersata "The Precious One Who Contemplates the Times" Hello TRUE FIGU Friends,  and also all the enemies of TRUTH. Sharing IMPORTANT news worth to enhance our knowledge. This is to let you know that Dyson and Vivienne (http://www.gaiguys.net) have GOOD NEWS to all of you. Please visit and spread this BRAND new work of non-official and most faithful translation made by Gaiaguys to our delight. Now excerpt from Arahat Athersata book by Billy and the HIGHLY ADVANCED Spirit-Forms (WE-FORM) from Arahat Athersata Ebene (plane). Read on online my friends: Selected excerpts from Billy Meier from the FIGU book Arahat Athersata "The Precious One Who Contemplates the Times" http://www.gaiaguys.net/meier.aa.p132-4,149-50.htm "Were the masses of humanity to discover the knowledge of the secret sciences - what their monstrous life-affirmative uses, progress and success would bring - then, in the shortest period of time, religions and politics would be exterminated." - Billy A nice sample here of good things you will read there at gaiaguys website. 468. Die wirklichen Geheimnisse der Geheimwissenschaften sind effective nur sehr schwer zugänglich und nur wenigen eingeweihten Kreisen bekannt. 468. The genuine secrets of the secret sciences are effectively only very difficult to gain access to, and are known to only a few initiated circles. more PRECIOUS JEWELS here: http://www.gaiaguys.net/meier.aa.p132-4,149-50.htm If the link does not work copy and paste this one: http://www.gaiaguys.net/meier.aa.p132-4,149-50.htm Spread it Figu TRUE Friends. Saalome and Peace in Wisdom Certainly more to come... good news to the Whole Humankind from our FIGU Friends from Australia. Der Beobachter Edelweiß _________________________________________________ "Lernen, ohne zu denken, ist eitel; denken, ohne zu lernen, ist gefährlich..." "Learning without thinking is vain. Thinking without learning is dangerous..." | ||
Newinitiation Member Post Number: 229 Registered: 07-2005 |
Dear Der_beobachter Have you some information on what this spiritual force is refering to. I did read the translations and came away perplexed as to the extent of the montrous forces the spiritual powers were refering to. Does this point towards human beings being able to develop the skills of telekinesis, tapping into the akashic records, the ability to use spiritual forces to levitate, lift and fly, or to use this enormous power to tap into the subconscious mind and be able to know the truth of existence, about Creation and the absolute truth of all? or does montrous just simply refering to the destructive capabilities of the spiritual forces upon development and for a human being to subjugate the world using spiritual powers only? Or does it mean when the spirit is sufficiently developed through knowledge of the truth, the culmination point is attaining the unfathomable state of arahat athersata and beyond which has enormous power that boggles the terrestrial mind as to the enormity of its capabilities? Thanks for all that you contribute. http://www.gaiaguys.net/meier.aa.p132-4,149-50.htm "Were the masses of humanity to discover the knowledge of the secret sciences - what their monstrous life-affirmative uses, progress and success would bring - then, in the shortest period of time, religions and politics would be exterminated." - Billy | ||
7kimba8 New member Post Number: 3 Registered: 10-2005 |
"Religious people tend to hate the truth" Careful here about making such judgments. I am aware of many so-called enlightened ones who are equally afraid of anothers "Truth". I think it would do all well to come to an awareness that there are as many "truths" as there are those to think any one thought a "TRUTH". It is now in my awareness that there is NO ABSOLUTE TRUTH that applies. Truth is only a thought, ACCEPTED as such and nothing more. The same with rules and laws -only accepted thoughts. Judgment has everything to do with all of the problems we see here. The judgement that begins with ourselves and becomes reflected out into our world. ALL is GOD expressed, even those people and events that are judged to be the "worst". Allowing another thier own truth, realizing that it comes to bear on only the truth-holder, sets you and the whole of the world free. We need more of that. That's a truth I hold. Kimberly | ||
Memo00 Member Post Number: 265 Registered: 03-2004 |
hi Kimberly the absolute truth is reality itself each one of us a small part of it that we are cannot comprehend the whole it is like trying to put all the water of all the oceans in a pool. . . i just want to note that: the truth is not an idea but is what is real when people´s thoughts are according to reality then we can say that they "contain" truth (a tiny part of the whole) when an idea is not according to reality (what is) then this can be called a lie all truths can be called "half truths" because they are not the whole but only a part of it BUT it is very important to learn to distinguish and not to confuse the half truths with the lies the principal characteristic of a truth is that it is universal and eternal the principal characteristic of a lie is that is something "local" (doesn´t apply to all) and of very short duration (a million years is short in a broad sense) take care | ||
Kiril Member Post Number: 153 Registered: 12-2005 |
7kimba8, "I think it would do all well to come to an awareness that there are as many "truths" as there are those to think any one thought a "TRUTH". It is now in my awareness that there is NO ABSOLUTE TRUTH that applies. Truth is only a thought, ACCEPTED as such and nothing more." May I ask why exactly you think this? And also what value you think there is in knowing there exists no truth(sic) - that is, nothing certain - that is, no objectivity -- that a A is not A -- how do you manage to make any decisions - and survive? Furthermore if you have taken as a principle that there exists no truth, what makes you so certain of that? how do you know it? - do you see that to say there is no truth is a contradiction in terms? Although I have offered questions for you to answer I do not expect an answer(since there exists no proper answers to these questions) and will respect the fact that you do not reply. Yours, Kiril | ||
Tjames Member Post Number: 229 Registered: 12-2004 |
Hello Kimberly, And welcome to the forum! As a young boy torn between a few conflicting "faiths" in my family namely islam and christianity and even evangelical christianity, I had to make certain choices very young in life. My mother who stepped away from family tradition and converted to islam used to tell me that "there are many ways to God" implying that not only because of the amounts of religions that exist but, because every humans perspective to what reality i.e. truth is, often have stark contrasts. That is not to say that one cannot find truth through religion, because it is very possible, but because religion as entities that consume peoples lives, the types (and any activity can be a religious one that consumes your life) ceaselessly to a point where no objectivity is available or freedom to think and ponder lifes most paramount or deepest questions can only serve to ones detriment. Meaning: People that let devices like money, atainment for power, control over others and blindly following a doctrine that doesn't allow freedom to think for oneself is the reason phrases like "there are many truths" even exist in the first place. Of course many people exist so there will be many "perceptions of their version of truth" which, will constantly change as old ideas and thoughts are shed for the understanding of newer greater more complete ideas. This means that humans do not have the capacity to understand the complete TRUTH as it were. The very essence of life and every Mathematical formula and the very highest intelligence frequency/wavelength that permeates throughout creation is constantly perfecting its perfection. But don't think that the creation is separate from you because that is the realm of religious and has provided the ground for many erroneous thoughts. In other words WE do not understand creation in its entirety, however that does not mean we shouldn't STRIVE TO. In Millions>Billions>even Trillions of years from now if our universe has not swallowed us from contraction we will be pure energy beings and or immersed with creation itself we will know what we now consider to be ABSOLUTE TRUTH, but even then our concept of what truth is will be vastly limited because of the age of the Absolute Absolutum, which if I'm correct holds the uncountable number of universes has an incredibly immeasureable advance of evolution compared to humans and will probably only be understood when immersion with creation exists. But even then who knows? It is the incredible mystery that shrouds creations existence and begs the deepest meaning of life, which in my opinion is to seek and find answers! Thus evolution unfolds. And that's my take on truth and life as incomplete as it may be. Tim, Salome Salome gam nan been urda gan njber hasala hesporona! | ||
7kimba8 New member Post Number: 4 Registered: 10-2005 |
"if you have taken as a principle that there exists no truth" Below is what I said: there are are as many "truths" as there are those to think any one thought a "TRUTH". It is now in my awareness that there is NO ABSOLUTE TRUTH that applies. There exists no SINGULUAR truth, ONE that applies to all. No rule that applies to everyone. Truth is DECIDED upon by the one receiving it. So when it is said that "Religious people tend to hate the truth" who's truth? For each of us holds our own. And we would do well to allow that here, as at the end of the day, much of our "fighting" is about one person's TRUTH imposed on another in one form or another. It is my goal to eliminate judgment. That which comes from the observations of people and events as being separate or divided from God/source into right/wrong, good/bad, truth/lie, and so on. | ||
Memo00 Member Post Number: 268 Registered: 03-2004 |
hi again Kimberly you wrote: "There exists no SINGULAR truth, ONE that applies to all. No rule that applies to everyone. Truth is DECIDED upon by the one receiving it." there are many things that apply to all for example: we all need to breath to live we all are different form each other we all are going to die someday and as these "obvious truths" there exist much more, the truth doesn´t depend on what people think like the saying says: "the food is eaten through the mouth and not through the nose, that one who refuses to breath will turn blue and die" judgment is absolutely necessary or you would not be even able to survive, or to live a decent life the thing is that one should judge ONLY based in logic, seeing things as they are and not like one wants them to be, "using" several points of view like another saying says: "The noble only searches for the truth and does not grasp with blind obstinacy to his point of view" you are right when you say one shouldn´t impose our point of view to others but its also true that one has much to learn form each and everyone in this world i dont think that if your beliefs would make you happy and if you would live in that "oneness and harmony" that so many talk about, you would be here just be humble and learn to listen there are many wonderful persons and many surprises in this life take care | ||
7kimba8 Member Post Number: 5 Registered: 10-2005 |
we all need to breath to live we all are different form each other we all are going to die someday For EVERY Rule you can imagine, there is one who has broken it. 1) There are those who breath liquid and yet others who absorb what they require through the skin, surely Billy is aware of these ones. 2) We are NOT different we are, at the source of who we are, ONE. Any "difference" you view with human eye is an illusion and a momentary one at that, as cells renew themselves daily. What your thoughts (and all of our thoughts) project as a hologram called the human body, is not WHO OR WHAT WE ARE. 3) Jesus and many other masters have not died but rather ascended and transformed the cellular mass back into light and taken it with them, now knowing the freedom to tranmute that light into any particular expression in any given dimension at any moment of choosing. You know that the moment you think something, it becomes a reality somewhere? Every conceivable energy state exists - or there are no rules for if there were - then "Every conceivable energy state exists" would be IMPOSSIBLE. And nothing is Impossible. | ||
Memo00 Member Post Number: 269 Registered: 03-2004 |
hi Kimberly im not the kind of guy who likes to convince others, so i´ll try to explain only one more time you wrote: "1) There are those who breath liquid and yet others who absorb what they require through the skin, surely Billy is aware of these ones." it happens commonly that when one doesnt want to listen to others because one falsely thinks that you are better, more intelligent, more knowledgable or whatever one just writes anything to avoid facing one beliefs and remaining the same, instead of thinking and questioning what one believes to be true what you described is also called breathing, the thing is that i weren´t talking "about that", it was an example to make you reason (also the saying i posted is NOT about eating or breathing but about the nature of things) .......... "2) We are NOT different we are, at the source of who we are, ONE. Any "difference" you view with human eye is an illusion and a momentary one at that, as cells renew themselves daily. What your thoughts (and all of our thoughts) project as a hologram called the human body, is not WHO OR WHAT WE ARE." we are different you like it or not yes, we all are one, but without the differences between one thing or another, "nothing would exist" your body is part of yourself the contempt of the Physical body is nothing more than a degeneration there is no possible evolution for a human spirit without a body your body isnt a projection of your thoughts, it is affected by them, but it isn´t created by them for being capable of thinking you need a brain, for your brain to stay alive you need a body, you cannot think or be conscious without it at this stage of your evolution .......... "3) Jesus and many other masters have not died but rather ascended and transformed the cellular mass back into light and taken it with them, now knowing the freedom to tranmute that light into any particular expression in any given dimension at any moment of choosing. " how do you know if you werent there? how do you know that those "masters" even existed and aren´t the invention of someone just to "sell" their belief? the "nirvana" is just another one of the thousands of lies that religions teach to fool their followers, to have control over them and exploit them, they tell you: do this and that and you will reach "heaven",do this or that and you will reach "illumination" that is just a false escape, an easy exit, they dont want you to struggle, they dont want you to face reality, and people also doesn´t, so they just accept all that "sounds pretty" as real because it is easier that searching for the real truth which requires constant effort "Jesus" never existed, the real man was called Jmmanuel and taught completely different things from what christian preachers teach, he exposed the lies of religions so they tried to kill him and crucified him, his story can be known today in the book called "The talmud of Jmmanuel" ........ for one time in your life listen you are here for a reason if you are a real truth seeker then accept that you dont know everything, that you ignore more than what you know, that many things that you "know" are nothing more than accepted beliefs that you can´t prove, things that you take as real just to feel secure whatever the path you take i hope the best for you take care girl | ||
Spaceman Member Post Number: 128 Registered: 06-2006 |
Mem00 I don't think the teachings of nirvana speak of a place like heaven or even command anything. The concept of a commandment itself is from Abrahamic religions. And Hindu and Buddhist philosophy do speak of suffering and reality, I don't know If you have read of it to speak about it. I also don't know from where FIGU or Billy Meier got the Devnagiri script to write 'AUM', rather than 'OM'. The concept of creation and the end of a creation (in Sanskrit Creation = Srishti) are similar to the what the Plejarens say. | ||
Memo00 Member Post Number: 272 Registered: 03-2004 |
hi Spaceman i have read a pair of things here and there, and precisely because of that i dont like much to talk about "the concepts and teachings" of religions (i was just trying to explain something, i don´t care about the nirvana, the moksha or whatever) its more or less like talking about a cartoon or about a TV show, it is something that isn´t real, that can be partially based in something that is or was i imagine you are a lot into the hindu philosophy, because of your comments, well my friend i will only tell you that: you can continue to watch TV with all of their cartoons and shows or you can begin to pay attention to the real stuff, you decide. . . take care | ||
Tjames Member Post Number: 235 Registered: 12-2004 |
Hi MemoOO, That is exactly how I feel about discussing religion. You hit the nail on the head. Wisdom in discernment, Tim Salome gam nan been urda gan njber hasala hesporona! | ||
Spaceman Member Post Number: 130 Registered: 06-2006 |
Mem00, I don't see why you look into other ideas other than Billy's as 'cartoons'. How can one even be so sure on what the Plejarens are saying? I am not saying the Plejarens are liars, but what is your certainity on that to call all other philosophies cartoons? | ||
Hector Member Post Number: 156 Registered: 04-2006 |
Hi spaceman buddhism and hinduism are less dangerous than christian and muslim religions because they don`t rely so heavily on dogma and blind belief, but many concepts like Chakras, Kundalini or Karma-sin stink a little bit. While christians and muslims lead you to physical and psychological slavery, buddhism leads to many fantasies and varied imaginery which is also harmful for the spirit. Don`t get me wrong, within every religion there are worthy things, but encoded and hidden.If you don`t know how to decode, then you are being spiritually poisoned. Do you know the "code" to get into the worthy information of hinduism? Do you consider it 100% reliable? Can you separate the wheat from the chaff? That is what Tjames and Memo want to tell you....(As myself too). But i won`t be unrespectful to people who are blind believers of any religion.Being unrespectful to them has no positive effect at all, but reaffirming their delusion and fanaticism. Cheers my friend | ||
Tjames Member Post Number: 237 Registered: 12-2004 |
Hey Hector, I personally know from experience that discussing religion from a baiased perspective (not saying you are or i am) will only produce arguements and reaffirm ones delusion and fanaticism if I may borrow your quote hector. I think some truth can be derrived from the least of the tainted religions and others but how much are you litterally standing to gain? how much truth is really in these religions maybe 5% out of 95% or at the best 60%/40%. How truthful do you think Meier material is? Especially when he's got boat loads of proof! Prophetic events unfolding BEFORE OUR VERY EYES AND NOSES. I just say why waste the time "decoding" when one knows there isn't much to be gained from most religions. I see them as initial stepping stones only and if relied on heavily they will not support the weight. I see your point about using critical judgement in Billy's Material and not using it as your only refrence and I don't! I use it to tie many things together. I just question this one thing to you. Why rely on religion at all, when we are very sure that the information in Meiers books are true to the best of his knowledge? Which is the best anyone can do. And that his message is for our age not some message a thousand or 5 thousand years ago. It applies to us now. That is using critical thinking. Salome, Tim Salome gam nan been urda gan njber hasala hesporona! | ||
Memo00 Member Post Number: 273 Registered: 03-2004 |
hi again Spaceman after studying many philosophies, religions, etc one comes to the conclusion that ALL of them contain only some truth mixed with a lot of untruth after searching for the truth for some time, it becomes easier to recognize what is real and what isn´t, and Billy´s teachings are to "strengthen" this "ability" you should be more critical, for example you should also see the "dark" side of the hindu philosophy (all those gurues that abuse sexually of their followers and become filthy rich selling their half truths, why is India so poor if they are so "spiritual"? etc) question all, don´t "marry" with an idea or point of view, but try to see things in many different ways, analyze all, also ask yourself: why do i do this? why do i do that? what is the importance of this? ............ one´s actions speak more of oneself than the words, and Billy actions tell that he is a wise man who knows what he is talking about you can listen to him and learn, or you can spend your time with something that millions of persons have tried for millenia and that hasn´t given good fruit take care | ||
Hector Member Post Number: 158 Registered: 04-2006 |
Hi James, The Meier spiritual teachings beat any religion out there by a mile if the spiritual seeker keeps a neutral, critical attitude based on learning, sound reason, logic and search for the truth. For me, one of the great points Meier offers is that he does not present the truth "already cooked for you", but you have to look for it, "digest" it and think about the alleged truth being true.That favours the use of own responsibilty and reason, just the opposite religions do.In the end, the result can only be positive if you are no fanatic. But sadly the world is full of fanatics, fundamentalists of all kinds, ready for difame and insult, eager to turn other peoples philosophies or spiritual teachings into manipulation and misuse. In my opinion, it is not advisable to go public or tell your friends directly about the truth of the meier case, because almost none is ready to bear the truth, and we in many cases provoke a " delusion self defense" maneouver in those individuals, who try to reaffirm their creed. When Junior visited the center and asked Billy what he should do in order to help the mission, Billy said he had to think, consider in what areas you are skillful, there are many ways to help, not only go public and tell the world.You have to apply you own skills to the helping effort, so they produce the maximum result. I remember Ptaah saying many of the male active members in the center had a very bad writing literary style in order to convey their ideas to other people, they had to improve drastically.They thought they actually wrote well but that was not the case. All i mean is that things related to strenght, like effort and determination are not enough to improve your own and other`s spirituality, but the use of intelligence and self judgement is mandatory. Directly to your last question, people rely on religion mostly because it is widely accepted by the majority, they feel comfort accepting a dogma that is accepted as not harmful anf advantageous, just the contrary to what it really is.There has always been an effect of mimetism, religion is "in" these centuries and this pisces age. People accept easily religion because it is an instruction manual for life, if you are "lost" religion gives you the "right" receit: Comply with God this way we tell you, and you will be blessed. Also, there are educational, family related factors which have to do with tradition and inheriting other`s beliefs. Regards friends | ||
Edward Member Post Number: 698 Registered: 05-2002 |
Hi All.... If One has studied Billy's material thoroughly, One can conclude...that Christianity...is the Most Dangerous (false) Religion of them all! And that the Islam(Muslims) are a Reaction/Effect...to the mentioned. Billy makes this very very clear: that it is the Christians that want World Domination and NOT the Islamic(Muslims). What has now occurred(the wars) is just an Effect...Caused (generated) by the Judeo/Catholic/Christian Body/Entity, if you will. Billy makes very clear, that the Islamic/Muslim people are a Peaceful people(s). Not out for war, but just to live their lives as good and decent human beings and to study their Koran, and with no external interference...from outsiders...of course; just like any group of people(s) would. So, the wars today...are put upon them by the Negative Dominating Attitude...of CHRISTIANITY(and it's Culprits!!)! If we had no Christianity(Judeo/Catholic), we would have no prophet as Mohammed! Thus, we should remember: that Mohammed was generated and sent to CURVE...Christianity(Judeo/Catholic); which he did very well! Even today, this STILL seems to be the case! Christianity and it's culprits...STILL have to be "Thumbed Down"...so to speak. As the Plejarans have also mentioned over and over: ALL Earthly Philosophies, Teachings, Wisdoms and (some)Religions, are in essence... Acceptable....Except: CHRISTIANITY(and it's culprits). The mentioned is just a 'Necessity' in order for the human being's Spirit-Consciousness to Progress/Learn/gain Knowledge/Comprehend/ Evolve...etc...etc....and so forth. I mean, a Religion as Christianity is the only known Religion today, and in the past, that is related to 'Morbid, Sinister and Human Sacrificing' practices! All derived from the 'Morbid, Sinister and Human Sacrificing' practices of The Christosians. Which we can call them the fore-runner of today's Christianity: the UR source/force. Thus, a Religion as Christianity....and ending their prayers with: "In The Name Of The Lord...Jesus Christ, Amen = In The Name Of The Beast/666 That Drinks And Bath in Blood Of Young Virgins And Babies, Amen".... is truly something to THINK about! Ending a prayer, or what ever ceremony with the mentioned sentence, is no way related to a 'White Mis', but to a 'Black/Dark Mis'! Exactly...as done by the Christosians many many centuries ago(and they surely achieved...their objective, as we look at it today)! And so, here is where the Spirit-Consciousness is 'Influenced' by the mentioned "Negative Loaded" sentence; which has Negative Effect on the human being's Mind as well as Body. And here is where we, as humans, living-up to the mentioned Religion: 'Alter' OUR GENES, and so forth! And here from, many Disease are generated...and so forth, which sickens our Human Body and Brain. Thus, Christianity...IN GENERAL, is the most Spirit-Consciousness breaking Religion on the face of the Earth! Which has a more Deteriorating Effect on One's Spirit-Consciousness as well as it's Effect on the human body...than any other Religion(enz.) on Earth. We must make good Distinction concerning these matters...as explained above. Truly, in this case, they can Not Be Lumped On The Same Pile! Edward. | ||
Kiril Member Post Number: 163 Registered: 12-2005 |
I agree with Spaceman on this, at least what his implying(please correct me if I'm wrong) - that the most important thing to do is to attempt to qualify ideas(and to find the proper method of understanding, so that we may be certain of our conclusions) - irrespective from where the thought originates. This is something, I suggest, that is very much lacking on these forums aswell as religious and philosophic circles, although in the latter case its more a matter of evasion. One final note I wish to add is that any system of ideas, even if perfect, cannot be judged completely - that is, qualified with certainty, by observing the actions of those whom claim its usage. When confronted with men, ideas become subject to transformation by a host of intellectual, psychological, cultural and political powers - that, as has been seen in past instances, most-often leads to a complete fragmentation of ideas and their systems. Kiril | ||
Spaceman Member Post Number: 131 Registered: 06-2006 |
Hi Mem00, I am NOT a Hindu, Buddhist etc. But I feel that the Plejarens giving commandments are like spoon feeding and yet they say that spiritual knowledege is not to be spoon fed. Mem00, I agree that we shouldn't "marry" an idea without questioning it. Well, about the hindu gurus, there is no known prophecy in an Hindu script about any guru in India, that would give those 'gurus' a kick out of their position of falsly claiming anything. Hector, I don't think Buddhist says to believe in as a truth unless the person accepts him/herself. Most forms like Pureland Buddhism were made after seeing Monothesic worship. I know the truth given by all prophets have been falsified in time, "Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense". I agree to these words said by Gautam Buddha. | ||
Kiril Member Post Number: 165 Registered: 12-2005 |
Hector: "I remember Ptaah saying many of the male active members in the center had a very bad writing literary style in order to convey their ideas to other people, they had to improve drastically.They thought they actually wrote well but that was not the case." This is of immense interest to me, do you know if there are any writings in the Meier case that cover topics of linguistics or epistemology? Thanks, Kiril | ||
Hector Member Post Number: 159 Registered: 04-2006 |
Hi Kiril, no i don`t now any Meier Book that addresses directly linguistic matters.But the thing is in the Figu Shop there are titles from other people available, like Hans Lanzerdorfer or Guido Moosbrugger, not only Billy Meier. In theory Billy Meier has the ability to write, because he`s done it dozens of times as a prophet in other lives.He also is able to introduce a Kodex that has a spiritual awakening effect on the reader, an ability only reserved to Meier. I suppose the Mission, Billy and the Plejaren don`t stress the obligation to master a sublime literary style, but to convey ideas in a clear, logical and structured way.The contens must be more important then the style, but within certain limits. Also, people are going to pay for those books and there should be some criticism, some "filtering", in order to enhance the value of the finished product.It is the aim of the plejaren that most of that books to be studied in the future, so there should be imposed a minimum level of literary/ideological quality. What are the clauses or the procedures they use to evaluate a book, that i don`t know. Cheers | ||
Kiril Member Post Number: 167 Registered: 12-2005 |
Hector: Thanks for your reply, I'll have a look at some of the other authors showcased at the Figu online shop. Kiril |
