| Author | Message | ||
    Matt Member Post Number: 182 Registered: 04-2006 |
This is a little late, but will show in case some missed hearing it last week. I recall Figu/P's saying the Indian spiritual leader and guru "Sai Baba" is nothing more than a conjurer. I'm in agreement and are all too glad to see that particular world famous and respected guru/conjurer gone. Hopefully the next one that tries to fill his space isn't as crafty and successful as Sai Baba was. Indian guru Sai Baba dies Sun Apr 24, 2011 Indian spiritual leader Sai Baba, one of the country's most famous gurus, died in hospital on Sunday (local time), triggering an outpouring of grief from devotees around the world. http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/04/24/3199422.htm | ||
Justsayno Member Post Number: 364 Registered: 10-2009 |
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/8504936/Italians-evacuate-Rome-over-big-one-fears.html Raffaele Bendandi an Italian seismologist, before his death in 1979 predicted a massive earthquake would strike Rome on May 11, 2011. This had thousands fleeing Rome. What irony if they had chose to flee to Lorca Spain. http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/World/20110511/spain-earthquakes-110511/ "Images from Spanish television captured chunks of stones falling from a church façade in Lorca. Other video images showed a massive church bell amid rubble, including crushed cars." Good, better, best. May you never rest, until your good is better, and your better best. | ||
Smukhuti Member Post Number: 584 Registered: 06-2009 |
Hi Matt, Luckily the monetary damage could be somewhat minimized now that Sai Baba is dead. He had formed a trust to manage the assets he bought out of donations from his followers - and the trust is said be in possession of properties worth at least 400 billion INR (about 9 billion US dollars). There is no reliable estimate of cash/electronic money that this trust have in its possession. The Government of the Indian State where he used to stay, is thinking of acquiring the same because he has named no successor. "There are many more wrong answers than right ones, and they are easier to find." - Michael Friedlander | ||
Sitkaa Member Post Number: 475 Registered: 10-2004 |
Regarding Sai Baba's passing: I feel I should add something here because I actually know about this topic. Whether you want to acknowledge this or not, Sai Baba did do miracles. Again, whether this was through conjuration or some other technique I know not, but he did do bona fide miracles. This is not to discount other people who have also done miracles; rather, it is only to say that discounting Sai Baba's capacity to do miracles just because his underlying worldview was religious is not considering all the facts. I went to see him twice, and followed his teachings for awhile (over a decade), and both personally and vicariously experienced more miracles than I can bother remembering. I don't think I was ever really free of his influence upon my own thinking until the very day that I officially joined the FIGU organization. By strange coincidence, later that day I found out that Sai Baba bit the dust. It is an odd thing to go so completely from one worldview to another - from one magical and miraculous to one proclaiming a basis in logical reasonableness. For me it has come down to this: which way do I prefer to think? I chose the as-yet fuzzy path of reasonable self-determined consciousness evolution. Sai Baba has helped me along this path in some small but important ways - through him I learned of the power of love, although not too much about what love is and what it means. And through Sai Baba I learned of the importance of maintaining a sterling character (which in my case needs some work...). Through Sai Baba I learned that reality is affected by awareness, and many, many other relatively shallow tidbits of spirituality. But it was not enough, not even nearly, to keep me from looking elsewhere as well. Another point about Sai Baba that I would appreciate people of this board catching a sense is how he was pushed into a role. When once you stand up, do a coupla miracles, and proclaim some deeper truths, people take notice, devotees form themselves around you, and soon you will find yourself being proclaimed a god. Being in this position of god, saint, or even merely guru, can be a heady experience for those who enjoy the adoration. It is kinda like being a rock star, winning every contest, and being right all the time, no matter what you do. I have to go now. My wife needs the computer, right now. Fur leben. | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 856 Registered: 07-2004 |
Two separate friends went on journey's to discover something from Sai Baba. The first one came back disappointed, as Sai Baba didn't acknowledge his presence while visiting the place of his worshipping for a full week. He went to the daily prayers in a big searing hot hall where devotees wait to hopefully be personally instructed, or led away to the back rooms where Sai Baba has private encounters with these chosen ones. Sai Baba finally did take the note (messages devotees hold in their hand for Sai Baba) from my friend on the last day. He left India without the expected spiritual enlightening he so sought. The second friend had a very different experience. He comes from the family that patented the genetically altered corn that most everyone now uses as a highly profitable crop. His money allows him to traverse the world and investigate whatever intrigues him. He explained to me how he met three young females who had travelled to be with Sai Baba to be enlightened. They told my friend that Sai Baba had selected these three girls at different times to join him 'backstage'. They all went back there and were eventually talked into handing over their passports to the care of Sai Baba. Sometime after this happened, all three, during separate events, were matched up to some of Sai Baba's 'workers' who were interested in the girls. Once these girls realized what was going on they all demanded their passports back. For weeks these girls were taunted to reconsider their repeal of the approaches from the 'workers'. My friend, upon hearing their plight went and offered money to get the girls passports back. After about a full week, he was able to 'buy' back the passports whereby all the girls immediately left for home. None of the girls knew one another, but each one expressed the same fear for what was happening to them. My friend said he could feel the pure creepiness that was present within the operations of Sai Baba's cult. He was really disgusted by the abuse that was being perpetrated by this organization and was of the mind that Sai Baba was a very degenerative person that had all these devotees fooled. I've read his writings and think they are very disjointed in the thoughts he projects, and conflicting in their positions, as well as being very thin in any type of depth or uniqueness. He seemed to be a conjuror with sleight of hand tricks and such. A dark persona for sure, I think. a friend in america Shawn | ||
Matt Member Post Number: 189 Registered: 04-2006 |
Smukhuti, thanks for that bit of info. Hi Sitkaa, Miracles? Do you believe in such things? | ||
Sitkaa Member Post Number: 476 Registered: 10-2004 |
Miracles: seen em, done em. Ya don't need to get yer panties in a wad, life is a miracle from moment to moment, with only the momentum of the storyline to carry us through. I have heard of the sexual stuff surrounding the Sai organization, and the man himself. Some of it is exaggerated, some is not. Some is open to interpretation, and some is blatant. Whether or not any sexual behavior is inappropriate is best determined by the parties involved. In Sai Baba's case, I know some people that came away from their encounters confused. Fur leben. | ||
Michael_horn Member Post Number: 393 Registered: 07-2009 |
One of Sai Baba's famous "miracles" was to overturn a large vase or urn and get "holy dust" to fall from it while he circled his hand within it. It was reported that a worker would pack the urn the night before with a paste that would dry over night. So when SB was whirling his hand around in it he was loosening the dried material. But for me the main issue is that instead of performing "miracles", the real miracle would have been for him to show all his devotees how to do miracles themselves, such as to get out of poverty, take responsibility for their own lives, stop hanging around "gurus", etc., etc. | ||
Ramirez Member Post Number: 585 Registered: 06-2008 |
"the real miracle would have been for him to show all his devotees how to do miracles themselves, such as to get out of poverty, take responsibility for their own lives, stop hanging around "gurus", etc., etc." haha, a miracle too far  Cheers. | ||
Matthew Member Post Number: 6 Registered: 03-2011 |
I once had the opportunity to ask a question of a so-called reincarnation of Sai Baba of Shirdi but turned it down. I "knew" that the whole thing was nonsense and a waste of time and that he would not be able to offer me any wisdom that I could not glean myself. Out of curiosity, I attended the temple where this 'living Saint' was carried in on the backs of others (he was obese too) with a big self-serving smile on his face. He then gave a sermon trying to convince us that he was a man of humility who bowed to the innate wisdom of others when really I think he was just trying to cover himself as to why he didn't always have all the answers his followers expected. It was all pantomime and a display of material wealth and I didn't buy it one second. I just thought it was sad that people could be so easily duped into believing this nonsense. Sitkaa - you seem confused about the acts of Sai Baba. On the one hand you boldly state "Whether you want to acknowledge this or not, Sai Baba did do miracles" and yet you also state that this could be due to conjuration. A miracle is not conjuration by those definitions. It is a demonstration of the use of psychic power and spiritual forces. Conjuration is a deception that does not use anything but physical skill to 'appear' as if spiritual forces were used when they were not. You state that he taught you about love but also, "...not too much about what love is and what it means". So how then did he teach you about love? You state he was pushed into the role but how does this relate to Billy's teachings and taking responsibility for what happens in our lives? I fear you may still be under Sai Baba's quite purposeful spell and I would urge you to dismiss this charlatanry once and for all for the nonsense it is. Matthew | ||
Sitkaa Member Post Number: 477 Registered: 10-2004 |
I hadn't heard that about the paste in the bottle trick. I have heard of other things, such as secretly being passed trinkets to then in turn 'materialize'. I never really believed these things until now. Looking back, it is funny how the mind works: so much of what I thought was driven by the will of some God-beyond-myself was just me, after all. Such a thought is at once empowering, belittling, grounding, and unfortunately all too honest. I miss the comfortable fantasy only a little bit, but more am just glad to be rid of it. As cold as reality may be, it is real. Although getting people to take responsibility for their own lives is no easy task, not for you and me, not for Billy, not for Sai Baba, it is a worthy thing to do. In truth, this was not one of Sai Baba's main foci, although confronted pundits may argue otherwise. Fur leben. | ||
Edward Member Post Number: 2083 Registered: 05-2002 |
Hi All... Yes, Michael....people should indeed stay away from the so-called Gurus. I have known individuals whom went after such individuals whom were LOST... and after revealing The Truth about their Guru...they are than, even: MORE LOST! Back to the 'Lost and Found'...for them, eh.... Edward. | ||
Sitkaa Member Post Number: 480 Registered: 10-2004 |
An example of life is sincerely led is Paul Reeder, a good friend and dirt-poor Tucsonan who recently bit the Sonoran desert dust. In his life he learned astrology and did readings for other people. He did not espouse any particular new religion or viewpoint, he did not lead people in any just cause, he just listened and acted as a stabilizing agent in the maelstrom. To his family's complete surprise, several hundred people attended his funeral, holding a solemn party in his honor. Shangra Lee isn't the same without him. I mention this here because, well it is on my mind, but also because I wanted to put Sai Baba's life into a clearer perspective, and Paul can provide this service one last time. When certain people appear or disappear, this can impact the collective awareness quite strongly. In Paul's case, many people felt the need to spontaneously attend his funeral, as he had impacted their lives both gently and sincerely. Sai Baba's case is the same, only the scale is different. For Sai Baba, he stood out so much, the miracles started when he was conceived, and continued throughout his life to his final days as a pleasant old man. Personally I have so much respect for both of these men. In their own ways, they lived their lives the best they could with information they had available to them. A life sincerely led, can an epitaph state anything better? The mudslinging that surrounds Sai Baba, perhaps some of it is justified, but I find it much overblown. For example, I met one of the women who proclaimed a sexual encounter with Sai Baba about a decade ago. She was a former regional president (or something-or-other) of the Sai org in the Pacific Northwest who told me of her recent sexual thing - that he used his influence as a guru to get into her skirts. I was skeptical because I also had recently seen him, and knowing of such accusations decided that they were bogus. I seriously doubt the physical form, the old man I saw, would have physically been able to get it up, at least not without performing a nonsensical miracle. Many miracles did occur in Sai Baba's life, many, many, many of them. Perhaps this rocks your world more than the idea of interstellar travel by technologically advanced human civilizations, but for me it is just part of being here on this crazy planet. His miraculousness doesn't mean he knew everything, only that he figured out how to perform subtle tricks of the mind very well. I think the best legacy of Sai Baba is found in the people whose lives he touched (like my own). Perhaps he misled them to some degree, just as perhaps Paul Reeder did, and just as perhaps I do. Of course, we are entitled to our own opinions on what this means, but he did do his best to make the world a better place, he sincerely did, even through the auspices of the religion that sprang up around him. Can you say anything better of someone whose life was sincerely led? May he rest in peace Fur leben. | ||
Edward Member Post Number: 2091 Registered: 05-2002 |
Hi Sitkaa... Interesting.... Well, he was just a CON man! He was just a: Foolman's Gold. Simple as that. Of course, no one is perfect...but not all of us conduct ourselves in such Grand CON scheme scenario, as he did. He was just playing - The Clown -; just as many others before him and after him, will. Such individuals just Indoctrinate man with False Cult Religious non sense, instead of leading/guiding man to TRUE Creational Relegeon. We all know WHAT the Judeo/Catholic/Christianity has brought us; the Death and Destruction, etc.; if Baba expanded his False Cult Religion world wide...he would be as BAD as the just mentioned Cult Religion Trinity. Thus he was - Consciously - fooling the people around him. And there is NO excuses for such individual(s); it was just - premeditated -...very Criminal type of practice, it would be called, in judicial terms. These are just the FACTS...which can not be ignored.... Now it is time for him to be - Recycled(/[Re]incarnate) -...possibly his Spirit-form...will do better? Edward. | ||
Zenanand New member Post Number: 2 Registered: 06-2011 |
Aloha Friends, I read the below about Osho in Contact Note 213. My question would follow at the end of the note: Alright – enough about that. May I still ask you something? The matter is of general interest because it has often been asked of me whether I knew anything regarding the sect guru Shree Rajneesh, also known as Bhagwan, who is actually called God; on my part, I have christened him “Bigwahn.” He functions with his horde sex, with which I mean group sex. “Bhagwan” actually comes from the old Indian word “Bhagavan,” which simply means “God” or “the Almighty,” and this Bhagwan/“Bigwahn” is actually called “Sri Bhagavan,” but to my knowledge, he bears the name Chandra Mohan Rajneesh. Unofficially, his sex-sect, which it is in truth, calls itself the Neo-Sannyas movement. In 1981, “Bigwahn” established himself, along with his sect followers, in Oregon, USA, where he founded the city “Rajneeshpuram,” where he was banished and expelled again last year, however, and since then, he has been searching for a new hideout in different countries. This, after his sect movement broke apart, when his long-standing confidante and mistress, Ma Anand Sheela, whose other name is Sheela Silverman, left Raijneeshpuram and America with a few followers in 1985, so more than a year ago, but after this, she was already extradited to the USA this year and was charged with an offense. The question now: what does this sex-sect wether* continue to do? Quetzal:51. I have concerned myself with this man and his sect and still continue to do so.52. In this regard, I’ve also held a future viewing, from which it has arisen that next year, so in 1987, Rajneesh will return to Puna in India, where he already worked before.53. As early as 1969, he let himself be revered by his followers as Bhagavan, which is interpreted in some circles as “Renouncer.”54. Then, starting in 1989, he will let himself be revered as “Osho” because already in the month of November of last year, when he was deported from the USA, the plan matured in him that he would newly establish his sect.55. Then, in 1989, the “Osho movement” will arise from this, the so-called “Osho Commune International.”56. But this movement won’t last for long because already on the 19th of January, 1990, he will depart from this life in Puna, after which the sect will be continued by a clearly defined circle of women and men.57. So in 1995, there will already be more than 200,000 sect followers worldwide.58. The new leaders of the sect will systematize Rajneesh’s teachings, which will consist of about 600 written discourses.59. At the same time, a practice of piety will be introduced, which will also include a calendar of festivals and have a systematic development of a centralized organizational structure.60. While Rajneesh has been preaching a spontaneous teaching until now and will also do so in the new movement, those who are responsible for the continuation of the sect, however, will make it a form of institutionalized religious community and teaching. Now my question is to Billy and any Plejaren people: 1. Is this is a final judgment on a mans work which contained more than 3500 live-discourses and created the methods to free human beings from all stagnation of potential and methods to get rid of all false programs, false believes and other falsities!? 2. Is there any further information available in any of the contact notes about Osho and his honest movement, though it was sabotaged by a bunch of criminals? Zen Anand | ||
Justsayno Member Post Number: 377 Registered: 10-2009 |
Hi Zen, replacing one false teaching with another can hardly be considered an honest movement. Plus the group sex aspect you seem to be forgetting about. Please tell us how you think group sex has made people better? Good, better, best. May you never rest, until your good is better, and your better best. | ||
Michael_horn Member Post Number: 404 Registered: 07-2009 |
> Quantity per se is not the basis for evaluating the value of a work. > After all, look at how much has been churned out by all the > religions. It also should be pointed out that the opinion about the > liberating value of Rajneesh's work needs far more substantiation > and evidence. The euphoria and behaviors often associated with some > of his practices do not necessarily equate to evolution of > consciousness. | ||
Earthling Member Post Number: 565 Registered: 05-2008 |
Zen Anand, I read somewhere of some other 'guru' calling Osho 'the worlds greatest pimp because he brought together boys & girls to have ('tantric') sex and he kept all the money for himself; How else could you get 19 Rolls Royces?" I've seen videos of him and I found him a bit of a phony entertainer. I don't get the attraction to him or see anything extraordinary there except as a manipulator extraordinaire. Sorry. | ||
Zenanand New member Post Number: 3 Registered: 06-2011 |
Dear Friends, Do any of you have any further information in any of the contact notes about this? Regards Zen Anand | ||
Memo00 Member Post Number: 496 Registered: 03-2004 |
Zen Anand most probably not because Billy and friends have more important things to talk about. As i see it Rajneesh was a very intelligent man but he was a guru and so he was wrong in his actions. He mixed truth with untruth and so made as much bad as good. In fact it could be said that his teachings are more dangerous than "normal" religions, they are like a food that tastes good but which has poison on it. As a general rule one can safely say that anyone claiming to be a "master" is either sick or is lying for whatever the reason. Even the most advanced human being in our universe is just a normal person. Salome | ||
Earthling Member Post Number: 566 Registered: 05-2008 |
Zen, there is a reference in this (google translated) FIGU publication. http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.figu.org%2Fch%2Fbook%2Fexport%2Fhtml%2F572 | ||
Sitkaa Member Post Number: 490 Registered: 10-2004 |
"The euphoria and behaviors often associated with some of his practices [Rajneesh's] do not necessarily equate to evolution of consciousness." - Michael Horn This is a common mind trap, as Michael Horn rightly points out. Yea it feels soooo good to self-induce a feverish pitch, but the maturation of consciousness is found in deep calm creative lucidity, shared with a gentle breeze of a smile. ) Fur leben. | ||
Borthwey Member Post Number: 227 Registered: 09-2007 |
I think Rajneesh did contribute to pour some sanity into the world. Nothing that Ptaah says contradicts this, he is just clinically laying out the facts as he knows them. One may be inclined to make certain judgements based on the words used, but neither he or Billy are making them nor do they refer to Rajneesh's teachings themselves. |
