| Author | Message | ||
    Ramirez Member Post Number: 1068 Registered: 06-2008 |
John F Kennedy on religion ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zo5OwuryDfo Cheers. | ||
Earthling Member Post Number: 880 Registered: 05-2008 |
Ramirez, thx 4 that link .. how refreshing ... such logic, rationality & truth comes in like a cool breeze no surprise they slammed the window shut on such Plejaren-like & evolved words, thoughts and feelings and its remained shut into today's day & age that guy would be shot all over again I wonder who & what that spirit-form is doing in its current life http://beam2eng.blogspot.com/ Bruce | ||
Newinitiation Member Post Number: 1250 Registered: 07-2005 |
Did anyone encounter anything in German part of Billy's information whether JFK, RFK or MLK was part of the mission since ancient times like Obama? | ||
Vincent Member Post Number: 151 Registered: 06-2013 |
Was that a prepared speech written for him by someone else? I once saw a documentary about JFK's addiction to amphetamines while he was in office. I don't know how true it all was. | ||
Tat_tvam_asi Member Post Number: 116 Registered: 04-2011 |
Hi Bruce, Yes, the words of JFK on religion were truly refreshing. Coincidence or was / is there a relationship between A. Lincoln and Kennedy ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qbxa8zx8ND4 Salome, Bill | ||
Michael_horn Member Post Number: 907 Registered: 07-2009 |
> The addiction story is true. I think the doctor's name was Max Jacobson. A friend of our family in NYC was also hooked on them by the same doctor. | ||
Michaelhelfert Member Post Number: 470 Registered: 09-2011 |
Posing a question to the FIGU forum: what do you think? Are all religions and cultures comfortable for all men and women regardless of ethnic background? In other words, were you to transplant a population of ethnically Scottish (to use an example) into a wholly non-European culture and religion, perhaps a West African or a South Asian one, would they be able to adopt the new way of thinking as their own, or would they change it, however subtly, to something more palatable to their own preferences? Is it the case that someone born here would be happy being raised in a culture on another planet? Perhaps a Plejaren one, for instance? If not, why not? This is the ideal that the United States lives by - that any culture and religion are adoptable by all people regardless of ethnic background, that ethnic background doesn't mean anything in the development of a culture/religion. This ideal is one of the most closely held of any promulgated in our land. Less and less do I think that this is correct. More n more, I think that this is a myth, and a deeply frustrating and destructive one at that. Political expediency - aka: political correctness - would have us all melt together, but what if that is NOT the highest morality of the land? Here, we are all pushed to integrate. Can the United States itself survive the realization that people of different ethnic backgrounds best thrive in settings unique to their species? Or is considering the question even for a moment a form of racism? Life | ||
Michaelhelfert Member Post Number: 475 Registered: 09-2011 |
For our ideal community, we the FIGU membership are pushing to develop a universal community, at the very least global in scope, and serving as a light to all people around the world regardless of cultural or racial background. How can we do this if we also need to respect some boundaries between people's cultures, races, societies, all the more an issue when we are ever pushed to destroy those very same elements that form unique groups of people, by the hidden coterie in plain sight. How can we fulfill our mandate to serve as a guiding, principled, beacon of true civilization in our relatively anarchic world, when we are unable to address this issue of the disparate evolutionary paths of mankind? Yes, we are all the same. Also, we are all unique. We have to honor both sides of that equation. How do we do this? Life | ||
Tat_tvam_asi Member Post Number: 128 Registered: 04-2011 |
Hi Michaelhelfert, To answer your question (how do we best honor both sides of the equation): I do not think it would benefit if we start to proselytize / embark on religious disputes. IMO simply seek, learn and express what is true and sincere. Stand to what you perceive as right but do not force it onto others. Display a mind of peace and unity in daily life. With the deep knowledge that there is common root among all living beings. In short: “Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none.” William Shakespeare Salome Bill | ||
Tat_tvam_asi Member Post Number: 129 Registered: 04-2011 |
Hi Michaelhelfert, All beings – especially all thinking beings of this universe deserve our sincere respect. I accept that religion has played a major part in the growth of civilizations. I hear Toynbee’s:” “I believe that a civilization’s style is the expression of its religion. Religion is the source of its vitality - for more than 3000 years in the cases of Egypt’s Pharaohs and China from the rise of the Shang to the fall of the Ch’ing.” So the vitality of a society may be a function of its religious views. I accept that many if not most of our fellow-humans were born to believe in religious doctrines and rituals. I see their kind hearts. I see their good-mindedness. I see their good will. I do not exclude the current pope who sincerely tries to discuss the validity of old doctrines. But I see as well how their paramount belief system imprisons their mind. I see how their mind is ultimately forced into a sense of being “unworthy” and “subordination”. How this was used by kings, countless rulers and many leaders and educators in other branches of daily life. How the indoctrinated mind blocked the search for truth and wisdom (e.g. Galileo). How many catastrophes like e.g. overpopulation and green house effects may only be recognized after great sufferings. It would be blasphemy to promote a unity with the highest ideal in many a religion. Their basic and first commandment is that their followers only adore a creator god that stands above them and all creation – e.g. “…for the LORD your God, who is among you, is a jealous God and his anger will burn against you, and he will destroy you from the face of the land.” (Deuteronomy 6:15 – similar Exodus 34:14 – first of the ten commandments) This vitality is based on superiority and ultimately destroys (e.g. rel. motivated killings – even today). The alternative is a sense of oneness with our highest ideal. That the “ching” (creational life force) in us is the source of our and universal life. That our thoughts and deeds form it and make it grow. This view of life will give our life a truly universal responsibility. This vitality is based on unity and peace. That is why I deem it “necessary, true and kind” (Socrates) to speak up for the truth that ultimately we are one with what created us. Salome Bill Re. the influence of religions I would like as well to add some remarks by Jmmanuel in what is the final chapter of the TJ (TJ 36:7 – 26): (In English – my own translation) “Man who calls himself the highest form (Crown of Creation) and holds his head high – he does not recognize Creation and equates Creation with humans. But man does not go far – even though he has subdued fire and rules over earth. He indeed will grasp..............SNIP Bill, you were asked on November 1st to not post long translations, but instead provide a link or a summary in your own words. Please take note of this as one of the rules for this forum. (Message edited by indi on November 05, 2014) | ||
Tat_tvam_asi Member Post Number: 130 Registered: 04-2011 |
Hi Indi, Sorry - I must have missed that note. As there is no link online for TJ's chapter 36 I post this shortened version: "In future times he falls for the (self-) deception the human teachings of knowledge (sciences) are of higher value than the laws and principles of Creation. In his bewilderment man will believe in these confused, self-devised, wretched and false impressions of life (views of life) which are created by confused cults (religions and sects) and by regulations through false human laws and changes in the ways countries are ruled (changes of powerful rulers of countries). When man does not grasp anymore (unlearns) the knowledge of his being from a creational perspective, he forces his life by exterior means according to his confused will and creates progeny in excess (overpopulation) whereby the order (structure) of the world and nature and many a life will be destroyed. Thus he will fool and deceive and prey on (exploit) his fellow humans and the world until the end (of the whole world) deploying mischief (crime) and punishable act (criminality) and false means." Salome Bill | ||
Michaelhelfert Member Post Number: 477 Registered: 09-2011 |
Howdy Tat_tvam_asi (aka: Bill) I don't understand your answer. What are you saying exactly? I get that you don't like the premise of the question, but I am not sure if you disagree with its validity. My question is not about religious disputes. Rather how can we approach applying the universal human values that we learn, to all people everywhere, when we are also supposed to respect the cultural/religious differences of the different species of mankind? It seems to me that to best do so, we need to tailor what we present to different groups of people. Thus, Semitic people may want to focus on one aspect of the Teaching, while Asians another, and Indians another, and so on. To give an example of what I am talking about, recently I saw on Facebook a poster of Herr Meier and his teachings made out to look like an Islamic Imam with wise religious statements. For these people, this may be the way to introduce the Teaching to them, but I personally found it repulsive. As the typical, relatively loose-goosy American, such an approach only turns me off the Teaching. You may think, or want to think, that we are above this kinda stuff, but in the same manner that our personalities are determined in large part by our genetic makeup, so also are our cultural/religious preferences still highly impactful in what we prefer, how we see, etc. We are trying to dispense a universal teaching for all people, correct? In trying to do so, I have personally learned how difficult, frustrating, and unnecessary it is to mix people of different cultural, religious, and ethnic backgrounds, contrary to the super-imposed ideal we are all given that everyone should integrate, integrate, integrate. So now I have learned that (at least for other societies besides America) the respect for ethnic backgrounds and cultural borders is espoused in the Teaching. How are we supposed to develop a society based upon a universal teaching when different people will want to emphasize and learn different elements of the Teaching? How are we supposed to build a society that is global in scope, yet respects the boundaries of disparate groups of people? All the more so when our incessant propaganda teaches us that doing so is the uttermost-most moral transgression against humanity, the devil's own racism incarnate? How shall we maintain balance when we are constantly pushed in one direction? Life | ||
Tat_tvam_asi Member Post Number: 134 Registered: 04-2011 |
Howdy MH, No, I do not think either that it is right to pose as a member of a different religion to get your message across. Indeed, I think you should always be your “true you”. If your question demands a straight “yes” or “no” then perhaps my reply is not a direct answer. Because it stresses that a perception of duality will never lead to an evolution based on peace and wisdom. The reasons of which I then subsequently discussed. My first message was to highlight that there is no need to “convert others to our view.” As our mind is a "skilled painter" it creates an environment reflecting our mind. So over time a mind based on “unity” will create an according environment. Expressing this affinity in daily life, this is – IMO - how we build a society that is global in scope. That Is why I highlighted the differences between a mind that is separated and a mind united with his highest ideal. Re. the second post: Well, you posted your question in the section "Relgion / Relegeon as discussed in the Figu material", didnt't you? That may explain that I spend some time explaining that religion (or more generally speaking our view on life) influences our “self image”. Because man’s self image is what determines most of his actions. As man’s mind and environment is a miniature of his highest ideal so a “superior / jealous god” will lead to a world of anger and endless quarrels. So people should (like e.g. Socrates suggested) always question the traditions that they were taught. I felt it adequate to hint that most people are good minded but committed to many cultural and religious traditions at a very early stage – that this should lead us to understand if their mind is not accepting change easily. That our wisdom should allow a sense of unity with them despite the differences. . Expressed without the word "religion": Seeking truth with our material intellect (ego) will always leave us without peace: Our ego feels isolated because it cannot “see” that we are united with the cosmic life force. So it constantly struggles to survive in what it perceives as a fragile, hostile world. But if we feel united with our highest ideal our mind will be “in unity” (with creation) which will lead to a world of unity. I can tell you from the reply of high officials in governments: When we speak to them with a sincere mind of unity we receive a sincere response. So no media or propaganda should take this “self image” (cosmic unit in cosmic unity) away from our thinking. If the environment seems challenging or “alien” – we should welcome it as a stepping stone of our evolution. An opportunity to strengthen our perception that all creation is based on oneness. Even if we are ridiculed for our views. (Semjase recommends to become “a walking temple of creation”). Maybe this passage of Billy (Bulletin 82 / Switzerland Figu) may best explain what I think: «Liebe ist die absolute Gewissheit dessen, selbst in allem mitzuleben und mitzuexistieren, so in allem Existenten: In Fauna und Flora, im Mitmenschen, in jeglicher materiellen und geistigen Lebensform gleich welcher Art, und im Bestehen des gesamten Universums und darüber hinaus.» (My own translation) “Love is the absolute certainty that (our) self lives and exists in everything in all that exists: In fauna and flora (animals and plants), in our fellow man, in each material and spiritual form of life irrespective of its species and in the existence the (life form of our) whole universe and beyond.” Salome Bill | ||
Michaelhelfert Member Post Number: 478 Registered: 09-2011 |
Howdy Bill, Perhaps I stated this wrong. I didn't mean to intimate that someone was 'posing' as a member of a different religion to 'convert' people. What I was saying was that people of a various cultural/racial/religious affiliation are adopting Herr Meier's teachings. I posted this question under the religious topical heading because there was no other more exact place to do so. "If your question demands a straight “yes” or “no” then perhaps my reply is not a direct answer. Because it stresses that a perception of duality will never lead to an evolution based on peace and wisdom." -Bill If that's how the universe works, then all speciation is incongruent with the creational natural universal laws. Different ways of living and perceiving are pointless. I've been down that path before, and while it feels high n righteous, it doesn't lead anywhere substantial enough to be adoptable by us mere Earthlings, not yet, not for billions of years. This isn't some nebulous issue that can only be approached with the circuitous logic that we are all the same, while not acknowledging the differences between us, rather this a real issue... that no one seems to want to touch. I'm trying to talk about a real issue issue involving real people who really are dealing with real issues. Hello? Anyone there? What happens, for instance, when we find ourselves in a cross-cultural situation that is uncomfortable for us? According the 'non-duality' perspective, well, nothing needs to exist anyway, so who cares. I just can't subscribe to that simplistic way of viewing the world anymore. It's not helpful. We need genuine guidance on this issue, *I* could use some help here. After initially ignoring this issue, I have been forced to learn that people are not all the same. So how best do I take the next intrepid step without tripping over the bigotry and racism by which so many people just want to dismiss me. *I* am in a situation where daily, hourly sometimes, I am forced to acknowledge this difference between the species of people, over and over and over and over and over and over. It doesn't help me when you just say, "We are all the same. Deal with it." That's just a thoughtless pantomime, an insult to my situation. Hey, I'm sorry to break it to you but I live in the real world, not some idealistic fantasy where everyone is the same and anyone who can't see that is an idiot. I was hoping for guidelines, not denial and ignore-ance. Herr Meier has talked about the breakdown of society in support of this ideal. The ideal of universal warm-n-fuzziness proves itself to not be based in reality as our respective communities break down into chaos over the next few decades due to incompatible cultural competition, coerced immigration, duplicitous governmental representation, etc., all driven by overpopulation of course. We are entering a time when increasingly different people with differing propensities and abilities and personalities and aggressive tendencies and vibes and thinking processes and etc, etc, etc, etc, are accessing this information and spreading it to others who are interested. There is nothing wrong with this, lordy-no, but I do think we oughta notice the trend and use it to inject some wisdom into the evolution of the world's respective societies, not deciding that everyone is all one (which is overly simplistic), and dismissing anything else. This should be an opportunity for the FIGU. The FIGU is supposed to be a light for the rest of the world. Is FIGU supposed to be some All-Encompassing-Global-Community? I think that is unrealistic. Instead, I think that it is supposed to be a guiding light for all the respective cultures and societies that all the species of mankind make for themselves. If my comments disturb you, please bless my dualistic way of seeing things by saying to yourself "Michael is just an aspect of myself who needs to evolve to the higher plane that I live on." I would like that, too. Thanking you in advance, m Life | ||
Tat_tvam_asi Member Post Number: 135 Registered: 04-2011 |
Howdy m, When humans think they are separate from the universe, they immediately become afraid of what might happen to them – no matter their traditions, beliefs etc. No, it is not my way to convert others and I am not in a position to bless you, either. But yes, I can say "Michael you are an aspect of myself who wants to evolve. Be happy...” Hope this helps. Salome Bill PS Perhaps you can take some “Vipassana”-like understanding of other religions/traditions with you from the passage that “most people’s mind is good but conditioned to their traditions/religions at a very early stage (Premature Cognitive Commitment)”. Better still - Search with your heart: So close your mind - open your heart - be your true self - then search again. What I mean is when they come to you and tell you about their customs and what not s – you just listen and smile. And in the end you look in their eyes and say “I see.” Because what you see is not what their mind said to you. But what their heart said to you. | ||
Tat_tvam_asi Member Post Number: 136 Registered: 04-2011 |
Hi M, Socrates and Plato called the real world unreal and the world of our mind “real”. The people in his time scoffed at this ”u=topia”. There seems to be no progress compared with the state of mind in our time. I see the many exaggerations in computer games and movies. The violence and horror that is common place for many of today’s children. The brutality seems have no bounds. I see that all these repeated images become a part of their “self-image” – which, as I mentioned many times, directs their behavior in later life. I see that many people – including highly lauded scientists – know what I say is true but do not raise their voice. Even if they would – the media fearing the loss of income from advertising these products - would not mention a word of it. So I tell you to see the world with your mind’s eye. Because it is much more peaceful. You see the many waves that are reflected in the breathing mechanism of the each living being – the universe included. They are but a tiny reflection of what you call complexities, diversities. It is as if everything originates from a tiny spot that explodes into an infinite no of sub-particles which over time develop into the understanding of their origin and contract again into the tiny spot they came from. This is to say – I understand what you want to say. But you are here, in this world. To teach a different truth. Salome, Bill | ||
Michaelhelfert Member Post Number: 479 Registered: 09-2011 |
Perhaps the answer is that people of this planet are recalcitrant and incapable of considering wisdom that runs counter to their desires. You know, I figure I'm just a tourist here anyway, so why should I care what happens here? Yay Earth! Go Earth! Anything it does is fine by me. Destruction of history, who cares. Loss of racial and species diversity? So what. Secret coteries with low vibes running the planet? Well, you know I guess life sucks, let's have another mocha latte. George Harrison - Give Me Love www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLsKWWF94cw Supertramp - The Logical Song www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBoYZqmcZuc I can be a tourist. Hope that helps. Life | ||
Michaelhelfert Member Post Number: 480 Registered: 09-2011 |
Sure, I can go here, been here before, it's a small hop back into this headspace for me. Does that solve all of our problems? Does it solve any of them? But hey, we are all one, and nothing else matters. Love is the way. Why doesn't everyone all just get along? Why can't we all just agree? Don't we all know that love is all there is? It's too bad we can't just tie everyone up and pour a love elixir down their throat. Then we could all agree to make a better world, live according to divine law, in peace and harmony for rest of time. I agree, we could do it. Now back to our regularly scheduled reality... How can we delicately acknowledge the cultural and racial differences in people, respect those differences, and yet provide guidance for a peacefully progressive future for people of each culture and race? Why don't you tell me that? Certainly we are all one, love is the commonality, been there, done that. What's the next step? Ubiquitous blind integration? This leads to conflict, not only because of video games, not only because people don't like racial and cultural integration being foisted upon them, not only because it denies and destroys races and cultures evolved over the past tens of thousands even millions of years in a single century, but also because we have people of so many different degrees of spiritual experience living here on Earth. We are not all comfortable playing in the same sandbox together with each other... and won't be no matter how much someone stands over us and tells us we are all one. Really that just makes it worse. Fighting that is fighting our innate spiritual nature. There's gotta be a better way. Life | ||
Michael_horn Member Post Number: 920 Registered: 07-2009 |
> Michael Helfert, I knew it! You're a tourist from Arcturus. | ||
Jokubas_stalmokas Member Post Number: 35 Registered: 01-2011 |
> Michael_horn, the context sounds funny but why Arcturus? just for the sake of it. | ||
Tat_tvam_asi Member Post Number: 137 Registered: 04-2011 |
Hi M, No human stands over or under anyone. 1. In the middle of all earthly events, the human stands with the globally highest developed spirit-form. 2. He has all the things of this world to place into order and to value them according to the all-encompassing unitary law of creational order, recognizable in all earthly laws of nature. http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Arahat_Athersata_Overpopulation A seed will not grow if it is not covered by dirt. It is the same with us humans. We are all born with some incompleteness, difficulties etc. So we come in contact with different families, cultures, traditions, religions. We need these surroundings so that we can grow. Variety is valuable to acquire wisdom. But no matter how varied our upbringing – ultimately we all live to comprehend and apply the laws and directives of Creation. If you consider it useful to discuss the concept of Creation with “others”: -You may tell them that traditions are not set in stone. (Socrates advised that man should always question the traditions of the society he lives in. ) -Your tolerance (“acknowledgement and respect”) of different cultures should be limited to “traditions” that do not contravene the laws and directives of Creation. If they do then you should explain your point of view. You may explain to “others” that it is part of man’s evolution to open up to new surroundings. Stone Age man may have only known his family. Hunter and gathers may have worked in small tribes. Farmers may have settled in villages. At a later time man may have shared his thoughts with people of his province then country. Today we are used to share information with people all over the planet via the internet. And there is an aspiration to travel into outer space. So history confirms that it is natural for people to explore and interact with new environments.. You may want to explain to “others” what underlies the evolutionary impetus. That every being is a part of and is destined to unite with the universal consciousness that created it. If you want to teach the laws of Creation you may need to open the mind of your listeners to this truth. Irrespective of their inherited customs / culture. It is the thought that creates reality. So ultimately the answer to your question depends on your own intent. Salome Bill | ||
Michael_horn Member Post Number: 921 Registered: 07-2009 |
> Yup, because it sounds funny. | ||
Michaelhelfert Member Post Number: 482 Registered: 09-2011 |
I agree, Bill, that variety is the spice of life... up to a point. To much spice, the blend of too many herbs, just makes the flavor of the dish confused, unless you throw in a bunch of hot peppers to overwhelm everything else anyway. That's what we are doing now. We've moved beyond making a bland dish into a tasty one, beyond even throwing too many spices into the pot, now we are just throwing together a chaotic menage of unrelated people without similarities or common goals. It constitutes the overwhelming of the original society, not the build-up of a new one. This is a social situation where the hottest peppers dominate the dish, and where some people keep adding more spice, and especially more peppers, to the pot. Anyone who doesn't like such spicy food suffers, has to go elsewhere. My intent? My preference is to actually taste the subtleties of the food I'm eating. If it's a fruit salad with mixed nuts, then let not be dominated by fresh jalapeños to serve the tastes of a few. If it's vanilla ice cream, then let's not cover it with ketchup because, well, that's what's fair to the oregano. Do you see how little sense this makes? And once we mix everyone, we can't un-mix them to regain our unique races and cultures. Once this is gone, it's gone for good. Perhaps you think, 'Good riddance!' If so, then you are a racist. I am not saying we all need to pursue strict racial purity and dictatorial rule, certainly not. What I'm saying is that we are being whipped and driven like cattle in one direction, and one direction only, where previously we were all abunch of separate peoples. It does depend upon intent. Having looked into this, I have actually learned their intent, as previously censored on this forum, and its disrespectful to say the least. In fact, I suspect their intention of mixing up the cultures and especially the races is so strong that they will even spark a nuclear war just to see it through. These are long-term planners after all. My hope is that the FIGU can serve as a guide for all peoples and cultures that still exist after our coming violence. In order for it to do so, it must address the issues that face us, all of them, not quietly ignore some of them because they're too delicate, and some people prefer very spicy food. My hope is that we can each find a way to get along with another, not have one 'catholic' philosophy dominate the dialogue propounding integration as the only way to approach racial justice, social progressiveness, equanimity, and even enlightenment. Again I'll say it: there has be a better way, and I hope that the FIGU will work towards bringing into better focus this other way. We the Arcturians thank you for your attention. Life |
