| Author | Message | ||
    Vegas Vic |
'Devil in the WTC Smoke' photo Judge the incredible image caught on film in the World Trade Center smoke on 9/11 for yourself: Go to http://www.shop1.net link to the photo is on the right hand side of the page. | ||
Norm |
"It is an act of virtue to deceive and lie, when by such means the interest of the church might be promoted" -Bishop Eusebius (260-339) "How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has been for us" -Pope Leo X (1513-1521) | ||
Anthea |
Wow Norm ... that is telling huh?  There is another saying that was proved true once again for me when I read these quotations you posted ... "the truth shall always prevail"! Regards, Anthea | ||
Rita Keoughan |
Hi Norm, Excellent quotes. What is your source? salome, Rita | ||
Norm |
http://www.biblefraud.com The Woman's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets, by Barbara Walker, p. 471. Rev. Taylor, in The Diegesis, reports a slightly different version of Leo X's admission: "It was well known how profitable this fable of Christ has been to us." (footnote, p. 35.) | ||
Norm |
Was Kashmir Jesus' final resting place? AFP [ MONDAY, MARCH 11, 2002 10:07:27 AM ] RINAGAR: An American researcher who believes she has found the final resting place of Jesus Christ is campaigning to exhume a body at a Muslim shrine in Kashmir for scientific tests. Suzanne Marie Olsson, a New York-based researcher is currently in Srinagar, studying the Muslim shrine of Rozabal. While Muslims say Rozabal houses the tomb of Yuza Asaf, a Muslim saint, many researchers believe it contains the body of Jesus Christ. To put an end to speculation Olsson has suggested exhuming the remains at Rozabal for DNA testing and carbon dating. "This will trace him (the saint) to his origin ... and resolve the raging controversy over the identity of the place forever," she told the Sunday edition of Kashmir's leading daily, the Greater Kashmir. Olsson has already dug up a shrine at the Murree hill station in Pakistan under the supervision of archaeologists Ahmad Hassan Dani and Saida Rahman. Muree is believed to be the resting place of Jesus' mother, Mary (Marium). "The exhumed remains have been sent for the DNA testing and the report is awaited," she told the newspaper. "Now Rozabal holds the key. If the remains there are sent for testing and then tallied with the results of the Murree project, it will either establish the link between the two shrines as being of similar origin and thus authenticate the Marium-Jesus theory or prove it wrong for good." However, her project has run into trouble with the managers of the Rozabal shrine, who are strongly opposed to its "desecration". "We will never allow it," said Mohammed Amin, one of the managers.But Olsson, stressing the "purely scientific nature of her work" and her identity as a "seeker of truth", is pleading to be allowed to "verify the origin and identity of the saint" to put to rest wild speculation. She has even written to Kashmir Chief Minister Farooq Abdullah for help. Olsson also believes Moses is buried in Bandipore in north Kashmir, the Islamic prophet Haroun at Harwan, on the outskirts of Srinagar, and Solomon at Takht-i-Suliaman in Srinagar. "You have more Christian holy sites than even Egypt or Israel," she said in her appeal to the chief minister. Olsson says she wants to unravel the truth about the shrines so that the scenic Himalayan region of Kashmir, can become a pilgrimage centre for Christians and Muslims. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow.asp?art_id=3442307 | ||
Savio |
Hi Norm I saw this news a few days ago as well. A very exciting development. I remember that it was mentioned somewhere that the body of Jmmanuel is not within the shrine of Rozabal, but it is somewhere at the outskirts of Srinagar. Anyone has further information? Regards Savio | ||
Norm |
Savio, I got this email from the owner of http://www.tombofjesus.com after I sent him that article. Thanks. I read it the other day. I've known Suzanne Olsson for a couple of years now. I and two others raised $3,000 for her to purchase a house in Murree [the city in Pakistan where the alleged grave of Mary, the mother of Jesus, resides] that she could use as a base of operation for what we hoped would turn out to be a research center and library. I must tell you, in all honesty, that it is NOT at all likely that "Indiana Sue," as I nicknamed her, has actually dug up Mary's remains and sent it to some lab, as the article claims. [Incidentally, we no longer communicate, due to a rift]. Sue has become obsessed [it seems to the point of hallucination] with her belief that she is a direct descendant of Jesus [her *real* goal is personal: to find out if she's really related to Jesus, doing DNA testing]. We talked for many months. I even saved a lot of our correspondence. When she appeared to become more and more obsessed, I advised her to return home to New York and begin living a normal life. [She found me through my website, and then we started planning things together]. The next thing that happened is that she managed to convince herself that I was only "interested in money," since I had written a book on the matter. It was weird. Interestingly, this was at the same time that she was **asking** me and others for money [which we did send her, despite her apparent weak state of mind]. She began writing professors at Harvard and other major universities, against my advice. I told her in advance that they would simply dismiss her. And that is exactly what happened. I had suggested to her that since she was so intent on devoting her entire life to this, that she should first set up a library at Murree [thus, the house]. Then she should take her time and collect all the information she could on the Israelite presence in ancient India and Kashmir. There are many such books on that. Then I suggested that she even go back to school and get a degree in some branch of Southeast Asian studies. Then she could do a thesis that focused on the **general** issue of Jews in India, with the issue of Jesus and Mary as simply a subset. I told her that though this was a long approach, that we needed to build slowly, no matter how long it took. I told her that if she did not wish to do that, then she should totally forget about attempting to gain support from anybody in the academic community. Quite frankly, I, personlly, could care less about their support. But she had become so obsessed with this that I was trying to help her devise a plan. Maybe my plan was no good. Whatever the case, she decided to go it alone. I had even arranged, while she was still in Bangkok, Thailand, lodging for her once she arrived in Srinagar: I arranged that she would live in a houseboat near a museum where she could do her studies. She was even going to be provided with two bodyguards. I arranged this through Dr. Hassnain, for **no money.** I don't understand this aspect of the East, but Hassnain had agreed to all of this and extended himself to her. But, being an independent, New York blond, she refused the offer, stating that she didn't want to be encumbered by anyone. I think that our Indiana Sue is either out and out lying about having dug up any remains of Mary at Murree, or she has finally become delusional, convincing herself that she has. If she is purposely lying, then it is a tactic she is using in order to reach her real eventual goal: to dig up the sarcophagus that lies underneath the Roza Bal mausoleum and that, we believe, holds the remains of Jesus. She would lie, believing that her story about Murree would give her leverage in Srinagar. But! I must say this. Indiana Sue is a definite wild card. While I do not believe she has dug up any remains in Murree, on the other hand...who knows!! :-) I corresponded with her for many months, and one thing I learned: she often tells the truth. But she often *does* stretch the truth, as a mutual friend also learned. This stretching of the truth seems to have increased with the passing of time. But again: the woman is remarkable in some respects. She once told me, months ago, that the people of Murree had "given" her the tomb of Mary, stating that no one else would be allowed to approach it. At first I didn't believe her at all. But two days ago, an Ahmadi Muslim brother of mine wrote me to tell me about the Times of India article. He stated to me that only weeks ago he had visited Murree and attempted to go near the Mai Mari da Asthan [Resting Place of Mother Mary]. Guess what? They would not let him near it!! LOL!! And he says he recalls someone mentioning the name of Susan Olsson!! Indiana Sue had told me that she had convinced the people of Murree that she was actually related to the woman in that grave. He told me that they were very superstitious, and used to follow her around all day. I mean, it's weird! Like one of those old stereotypical movies where "Bwana" goes to Africa and the natives are following him around! The woman has survived a raid on her compound by guerillas; she dived into a hotel to avoid gunfire, she rode on top of an automobile while the rushing waters of a monsoon carried that automobile and every other thing in its way. She survived a bomb blast inside a building in Lahore. I discovered that she had not lied about any of this [I have my ways]. If the woman were interested in money, she could be rich. She was a journalist by trade. But she scoffs at the very idea of coming out of retirement and making some money on this. I told her that the idea is NOT to make money, but to use her knowledge and skills to share her story and get others involved in this interesting and fascinating work. She's a mixed bag. Once I asked her to get something for me, thinking she could never do it. BUT SHE DID!! She sent me something I'd been looking for for years. I even had contacted a man in France who had possession of this and had conversed with him over the telephone, in a 3-way hookup, through a translator friend of mine. But it fell through because the guy was demanding that I come to France and pay him big money. Well, Indiana Sue got it for me FOR FREE! It arrived in my mailbox from Bangkok. It would be perhaps one of the most ironic things in history [maybe THE most ironic!] if this wild card, our Indiana Sue, managed to do what Hassnain or no other researcher or scholar has been able to do: dug up the alleged grave of Jesus at the Roza Bal. Hassnain has been refused. Kersten has been refused. Many others have been refused. I told Indiana Sue that she too would be refused. And, as you read in the article, that is exactly what happened. The keepers of that tomb do not want to "disturb" the body. That's understandable--it's just a general respect for the dead. Yet, strangly, a part of me believes that somehow she just **might** . Murree was a totally different matter. That's why I can't understand why she's claiming to have dug up the body of Mary there. Because that grave abuts a Pakistani TV antenna. I have a photograph of it. And they had told her that they would never dig near that antenna, because the antenna itself--tall as it is--sits on precarious land--on a hill that, with the next heavy rain, it's believed, might be washed away. Yet now she's saying that her and Danni and that other woman dug up the body? I don't think so. Indiana Sue is also a very wiley person. I think that she could survive anywhere in the world, while a Navy Seal would perish!! LOL!! Well, anyway, it'll certainly be VERY interesting to see what happens. When she first went to Murree and walked towards Mary's [alleged] grave, a Pakistani army guard stopped her in her tracks, rifle in hand. So what did she do? She goes to the highest Pakistani military official she could find. And the next day she walks BACK to the gravesite, flashes a piece of paper at that functionary, and he steps aside and lets her go to the grave!! LOL! If you want to see a picture of Mary's grave, and the flowers she placed on it, click here: http://www.tombofjesus.com/MaryTombJune2001.htm Had I had my hands on some real money, and had she been more patient, she could have stayed at Murree at that house and taken care of business. I had a Canadian guy write me who was extremely excited about this stuff. He claimed to have unlimited resources, and all that, and wanted to help. But by that time I had become rather tired. Life goes on [I'm now trying to find a job!!] I had told Indiana Sue that despite my interest in this, it wasn't really *that* deep where I would go to THE single most hotspot on earth--Srinagar--where India and Pakistan are at the brink of nuclear war. This is a hobby, which I can't even get into now because I gotta try to find some work. Yep! Indiana Sue reaches Srinagar PRECISELY at the time when India and Pakistan had amassed troops on their respective borders, and the U.S. was worried they'd start a nuclear war. But maybe it's providence, hey? Because now she's over there, and maybe she'll be under the radar for a while. Because before, Srinagar was a rather dangerous place, especially unescorted. But if anyone can live there and survive--it's Indiana Sue. There is one other aspect of this I truly hesitate to entertain, but can't help but wonder about: I have occasionally wonder whether or not some more powerful force is behind her. Not that she's some prophetess or anything like that, mind you. But this *drive* of hers--I've never seen anything like it. Jesus no doubt has many, many descendants, if he actually did marry that shepherdess woman, Marjan. But just *maybe* Indiana Sue is feeling something deep down inside of her. Maybe it's genetic. Maybe it's spiritual. Maybe even the Creator Himself will cause that grave to be dug up through her. Oh, one last thing! She claims that the reason she has been able to get so close to her desire is that she has discovered that, according to Islam law, she *must* be allowed access to the grave of her ancestors. She said that the Imams in Srinagar had been forced to even hold meetings on what to do with this New York blond and how they should decide the matter, due to this issue of her "right"! Of course, she can't prove this stuff. But she's walking around in Kashmir [Hassnain emailed me two weeks ago and told me that he's finally met her] with a chart that she got from Laurence Gardner's book [the Holy Grail guy] her descent from Jesus and Mary Magadalene, supposedly. I have yet to ask a Muslim Imam about this aspect. I intend to do so within the next few days. Stay tuned!! Yours, Ben | ||
Savio |
Hi Norm Thanks for sharing the email! It seems that AFP did not verify the story before putting it on paper. I have read the book " A Search For The Historical Jesus" by professor Hassnain, his research on Jesus' learning and returning from/to the East is well supported. I am glad to learn that he is at work again. Please keep us informed Regards Savio | ||
Craig |
One of the biggest problem on Earth is of course is religion. If we are going make progress on solving the problem of war, poverty, etc, Man must liberate himself from all religions. That's includes all secular religions like marxism, darwinism,atheism, etc. And go within and outward into creation. Man must realize that we all are co-creators with creation. God never stopped war or peace. Nor God created war or peace. Only us as Earthings can stop all wars and create peace on Earth for ourselves. That's one of the points that which Plajarians trying to make. Man must stop giving God blame or credit for everything going on and start taking full reponsibility for ourselves. There's no such thing as a personal god. Is is a such thing as a god, it would be a impersonal god, a force. But Creation is above all gods there is. One of the Creation laws is karma. Everything we give out is what we give back. We create our our reality here. The Earth is a hellhole because we create it in the first place. It up to us to create a paradise on Earth and nobody or nothing else is going to do it for us. Sorry for rant but I want to make a point here. Craig | ||
Savio |
Hi Craig I see you made you point, but it seems that karma is not one of the laws of creation. I think it is we who create our own future with our own hands but not karma. Anyone please care to explain a bit more? Regards Savio | ||
JAY |
Hi Savio and Craig, KARMA is a "Religious Term", it is not part of the ALL THAT IS (CREATION). The PLEJARANS made it clear that through reincarnation is how the problems of earth can evolve to a more positive life. Humans need to understand that they will keep coming back to learn and evolve, once we understand this CREATIONAL law and accept and teach it worldwide, we will start to think about taking care of ourselves and caring for all humanity, in this case when a child returns to a new life in a new body they will get to enjoy a better future in our planet. BE WELL Savio | ||
JAY |
HI Savio and all, I have this great article which relates to humans traveling into space, it is a very strong statement on our Spiritual as well as the damage we can cause if we try and colonize other location of the universe, read on guys... http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,51135,00.html "Humankind consistently demonstrates a strong lack of the integrity for such a venture. History foreshadows the cyclical injustices of the past played out anew on some poor, unsuspecting ecosystem. Space travel/colonization would be irresponsible and sadly consistent with the thinking that got us to the state of informed depravity we are in now." ENJOY | ||
Edward |
Hi Graig and Savio... Hope you both are doing fine.. I do agree with both of you! What is Karma!? Well..we all do have to "Clean-Up" abit of Karma every Now and Then...in one of our life-times...I would say. But Not in Every Life-time...as I understand it. If our world was Utopic...we wouldn't have to do So much Karma..."Balancing-Out". And if we were in a More Utopic world...we would be More Spiritual Beings and there would be Less Negative Actions. You can do Karma in one life-experience...and Balance it and Even it out..with The Ones experiencing it with you. And in anothers it is not needed...as you have a Fresh Start..in that new life-experience. Do we not say: "Crime Never Pays." Inotherwords..; the one(s) that commit(s) the crime will have his/her "Outcome".(Karma..if you will) So, I do agree with you Savio...as Karma is Not a Natural Creational Law. But sometimes it Can Manifest in certain lifetimes...for some. In Our Level of Understanding...I must add. We do have Free-Will to walk around a Negative Conflict/Action...or go straight into it! Also.. depenting on the situation...I must add. If we go Into it...well...that may make more ma- nifestions in one's life-time and/or next Life-time. To my knowledge..this is why no Alien groep may Intervene Physical...if not needed. Only if We Ask. I remember reading what Billy once said; that every action you make/take...will Reflect back on you. (He may have said it abit different..can not re- member preciesly.) And I do ecknowledge the same. Surely One that commits Much Evils...Can Not Get Away with his/her deeds/actions. So, we do have to watch out with the steps we make and take in our path through our lifetimes. So...if we do not call it Karma...what should we name it? That Conflict/Action..Re-Action experience? One may ask? "Balancing-Out"? Take Care....Be Healthy... Edward... | ||
JAY |
Hi Ed, The better word of BALANCING OUT is a better description of the KARMA Idea....in my opinion is a more correct part of CREATIONAL directives. BE WELL Ed | ||
Savio |
Hi Edward & Jay Thanks for your response I agree that "balancing out" may be a better description. Perhaps "face the consequences" may also show a better picture. As we know that there is consequence for every task we do, consequences will be of short term or long term. If we give a helping hand, there might be a short term good consequence, while polluting our earth will have a long term bad consequence that we might have to face in our future reincarnations. On the other hand, Karma is usually a religious wording that links to direct award or punishment for the deeds we did in our previous lives. We know that Hitler will not be punished in his future reincarnations for what he did (hence no karma), but he (and us) has to face the consequences that resulted ...... Israel ... struggles....wars..... Regards Savio | ||
craig |
Good replies. Karma like reincarnation is a real deal. Balance it out might be a better word then karma. Why Hilter is kept on being labeled a world greatest mass murder. The number of people killed under Nazism is a drop in the bucket compared ten of millions murdered by communism. Mao and Stalin are the greatest mass murders this world ever known. I am for one is sick and tired hearing about the holocaust while the Zionists are doing the murdering in Israel. | ||
Edward |
Hi Jay and Savio.. Nice hearing from both of you again... I'm very glad you know what I ment Jay... I hope I did make myself abit clear with my inter- pretations on Karma and Balancing-Out. Yes that is very true...Karma is/has come from a Religious Standpoint of View. And as Savio used the term "Face(ing) the Consequences" is also good interpreted. I always did joke abit when One would do me wrong, by saying: 'Karma will get you'. But more in the sence of:'You Will Meet Yourself One Day!'. Right Savio... But as seeing Karma as a Punishment...No, I really never did seen it that way. More...that the person(s) opposite of you just has to Learn and Dis-Learn from what he/she has done to you or others. But I fully understand what you mean Savio. Yes...and a man like Adolf Hitler..and many many More..Will have to Face the Consequences...as you have noticed...and Balance-Out Some things they have started and others Before them...as Also being the Cause...of that Great Power Stroggle we know as The Second World War. Even Now..Today...there are such situations happening. They Too...with their "Powerful OverKill"...will have to do some "Balancing-Out" and take Full Responsibility and "Face the Consequences" for their Violent Actions. Well, see Savio...We came to a very good Result.... Don't you think so... Jay and Savio...Take Care...Be Healthy. Edward.... | ||
Phillip Gozewski |
Hello Figu people Semjaze stated in the 70th contact with billy some rather dire things respecting the jewish or israeli people. all Quotations from "Message from the Pleiades" vol.3 by Wendelle Stevens. She said: "In truth the hebraons had been the real dregs of society and the outcasts of earthmankind,BECAUSE THEY CONSTANTLY INCITED FIGHTS AND QUARRELS WITHIN THE WHOLE WORLD. Peace on earth will finally be then when this mightthirsty and murderous self-called Hebraon race-connection has become completely scattered." And in the 71st.contact she said: "There already is menacing in the northeast and east, the idea of a world wide war stirred up by the machinations of Israel. This wicked and menacing event can only be averted if the nations of the world come to an agreement to dissolve together the state of Israel." with all of the trobule in Palestine with Israel and tha arabs it certainly looks like what Semjaze said is coming true. She suggests that the UN come together and entirely dissolve the state of Israel, But if this should happen will it not breed some nations taking sides with Israel like the USA it's biggest supporter? and would this not lead to possibly wider and more destructive conflicts??? will WWW 3 be fought over this precise matter? any comments? | ||
JAY |
HI Phillip, The Idea SEMJASE is giving us is very new to our ways of thinking and I totally agree with her, she has a logical mind about it and I do understand the concequences will be Disastrous. I believe strongly in the Idea in that this Israel consequence from ancient time has to stop some time soon or else it will consume the planet and the spirit of the human race. I also think the PLEJARANS have been very successful in these ideas as suggested by SEMJASE, they could serve us in good value knowing that the sacrifice will be all out WW III and will change the ideas and thinking of the human race. BE WELL Phil | ||
Lars |
Hello Jay This is just a comparasion,but having studied bible prophecies,I was under the impression that the OT prophets predicted that all nations would come against Israel to try an annihilate her and at that final moment the Davidic Messiah King spoken of by all the prophets would come supernaturally like a flash of lightning to protect Israel and wipe out her enemies. Don't misunderstand me, but this is why I can hardly fathom why Semjase and the Plejarens are so anti-Israeli as well as anti-God and anti-Christ. Surely I believe in their existence as legitimate extraterrestrials and their immense creational wisdom, but could it be there might be room for more cognitions by both them and us about whether there really exists a Creator or not? and whether the Jews might actually be a chosen people of this Creator? as far reincarnation goes orthodox jews affirm and believe it is the true scheme of evolution. How can I say this kindly ,but may it be possible that some of what the Plejarens have said might be half-truths? I'm sorry, but some of what the Plejarens have stated respecting God and the Israelis seems too far fetched as well as inconsistent with the holy prophecies respecting the work and comings of the Messiah, these prophecies have been coming true for thousands of years, Now the Plejarens would have us believe that all these prophecies respecting Israel and the Messiah are heresies and that the bible was completely falsified? U'hh I don't think so..... If it is true? time will prove which of the two contestants were right. | ||
Michael |
Hi Lars, I have spent a little bit of time reading some parts of the OT and found an amazingly incomprehensible amount of slaying of innocents commanded by the "loving" god of the bible. In the books of Samuel, Numbers, Judges and Joshua there is one wholesale slaughter of innocent men, WOMEN, CHILDREN AND INFANTS done at the command of this god. On one day alone Joshua and his army slew 12,000 people (innocent women and children included), a figure which, based on a rough estimate of the world's population at the time being 200,000,000 people, equalled 1 in every 16,667 people on the planet having been killed that day. Some loving god. In today's terms, based on an approximate world population of 6 billion people, 360,000 people would be killed, by god's command no less. If you read the Talmud of Jmmanuel (TJ) you will see that Jmmanuel had a lot of harsh words for the Israelis and foresaw that they would have no peace throughout the future based on their disregard and falsification of Creational laws and their illegitimate occupation of the land. Reflect on the many differences between the Creation (what we know of it at this time) and what we know of the biblical god and it should become clearer that the bloodthirtsy, blood sacrifice loving god had nothing in common with the Creation and demonstrated only the smallest amount of spiritual truth, if any. If we can contemplate that there are no chosen people, no only begotten son, no solitary prophet, no god to take sides in wars, football games or to grant prayers, no god which has ever incarnated and had itself nailed to a cross, or interferred in the petty affairs of humans, then we may make room to contemplate the immensely magnificent source of all life itself. Michael | ||
Lars |
Hello Michael Regarding your statement about an "incomprehensible amount of slaying of innocents as described within the OT, and describing these people as innocent. First it should be understood that these mentioned people whom YHVH God of Israel commmanded the hebrews to slaughter wholesale were not that innocent,as you might believe. They were commmanded to be slaughtered at that time for good reason. It was because these peoples were VIOLATING THE LAWS OF NATURE/CREATION.THEY WERE LIVING IN GROSS IGNORANCE AND DEFILED THEMSELVES BY IDOLTRY AND PERVERSE SEXUAL CUSTOMS WHICH WERE CONTRARY TO NATURAL LAW. This is why God said to Israel in Lev.18:24-28 "Defile not yourselves in any of these things; for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you." for all these detestable acts have the men of the land done, which were before you and THE LAND IS DEFILED, THE LAND WILL SPUE YOU OUT ALSO WHEN YOU DEFILE IT, AS IT SPUED OUT THE NATIONS WHICH WERE BEFORE YOU." "iT IS BUT FOR THE WICKEDNESS OFTHESE NATIONS THAT THE LORD DOES DRIVE THEM OUT BEFORE YOU" Ptaah said in one of the recents contacts that "NATURE HERSELF WILL RETALIATE AGAINST THE EARTHHUMAN BECAUSE OF HIS MISUSE OF THE NATURAL AND SEXUAL LAWS." this statement is virtually the same logic Yahweh told Israel,and is the basis for any retaliation or judgments on earth humans. These people whom Yahweh told Israel to slaughter were hopelesssly evil and defiled by their sins, they were worshipping idols, having communion with evil spirits, and actually sacraficing their children in ritual fires to their false idols and spirits!!! they were also grossly and hopelessly lost in sexual excesses of adultery, fornication, and homosexuality, alot like our modern pleasure addicted societies of today. Thus Nature and the GOD of Nature retaliated together against the defiled, stubborn belligerent earth humans. This then is the true picture, and what Ptaah has said about Natural law in no way conflicts with the reason why Israel slaughtered those defiled nations. In reality then may it be seen that Israel are the people of Creation, who live by the laws of Creation, the fundamental laws, and who'ever cannot fathom and live the fundamental laws of Creation first, has no right or claim upon the higher advanced laws of Creation under which the Plejarens are living. Lars | ||
JAY |
Hi Lars & Micheal, I agree with Michael on this issue....what good is it to Slaughter like this YAHWEH JSHWSH has done?... laws of CREATION do not allow room for the killing of any species especially that of human. I guess to me from my understanding of the OT is that these "GODS" did not understand the same things as PTAAH/QUETZAL an other managers of the earth know. What it seems to me is they take those criminal fornicators or such and banned them from society to remote harsh locations with no means of survival and let them suffer what they have done so that eventually they will learn these lessons and then develop the spirit once again. Killing them will not help the spirit form grow and learn, for the next life they will continue on with same or similar tendencies. I guess these old spirits are walking around now with the same tendencies as 2,000 or 3,000 yrs ago. Ponder on this for a while Lars, I see the same things happening even from that time long ago now in the year 2002, is these old spirits that are here now with the same issues. BE WELL Lars & Michael | ||
Jean Pierre Lagasse |
Hi all... Quotes from Stevens' translations are not necessarily accurate... therefor it can't be said with certainty, that Semjase said these things... Although I quote from Stevens' myself, we can't reliably derive any accurate Plejaren info from the translated sections of his books. It's best to check everything against the German versions of these contact reports. I mention this for any new people on the board, so they know the situation. "...Semjase and the Plejarens are so anti-Israeli as well as anti-God and anti-Christ..." I don't think the Plejarens are capable of being "anti" anything... however they DO recognize these events (or "movements") for what they really are. The Plejarens would have very extensive (& accurate) information on all this!!! I think we tend to assign our own attitudes to what we think they said. (Very easy to do !! !!) Some of the old "ET rulers" involved with our distant past were very barbaric and cruel, as Michael pointed out. Just my 2 cents... Salome, JP | ||
Michael |
Hi Lars, Jay, JP, I think Jay made some very accurate points regarding how certain crimes are meant to be dealt with so that the perpetrators can evolve and learn. But I further don't accept the logic that killing women, children and infants is the most resourceful means of educating them by any means. Not only that but Lars neglects to mention that the god of the OT often told the Israelites to take the women and young girls for their own use, negating the point about the necessity to kill them because they were so impure, corrupt, etc. You can't have it both ways, unless you're "god" apparently. Let's also remember that the Israelites spent a fair amount of time in the OT slughtering a wide variety of animals and smearing their blood all over the place as a "sacrifice" to their god, hardly the request I would think the Creation would make of anyone, hardly a mechanism of devotion to love, truth, wisdom, etc., you know, the attributes of the Creation but not apparently of god. And any arguments about this being necessary at their level of evolution fall quite flat, would we think that some primitive tribe living in a jungle today would be appropriately worshipping the Creation by butchering a bunch of animals? Let's also reflect on how the loving god of the OT "tested" Abraham by having him prepare to sacrifice his son Isaac. True believers marvel at how clever god was in discerning Abraham's devotion to him (like the creator of all things, including Abraham, wouldn't already know this...and EVERYTHING else?) Funny how they don't seem to notice that this was one huge case of child abuse since Isaac apparently wasn't let in on the little joke before hand. But, hey, the god that commands the deaths of tens of thousands of women, children and infants was letting Isaac off pretty lightly by letting him think his father was about to knife him to death. Ah, religion, how refreshing. And let's also remember that the OT has the Jews of the time owning slaves, indulging in using prostitutes and, if I recall correctly, some incest too. The problem with all of this torture, murder, infanticide, blood sacrifice, slaveholding, etc. being condoned by god is that it should only make it more apparent how "human" this god was and how "ungodly" or, more accurately, how unrepresentative of the Creation his conduct and commands were. Further, using one group of (very lowly evolved) humans to brutalize another hardly seems to qualify as spiritual by any sense of the word. Michael | ||
Marc Juliano |
Hello Lars, There's absolutely no "good reason" to slaughter any human being. I find it simply amazing (to say the absolute least) that you would choose to respond to Michael's literally black-and-white extraction from the bible about thousands slain on behalf of some "god" with your, essentially, "they were not as innocent as you might believe", and that they were "slaughtered...for good reason." Until thinking like this is seriously corrected--en masse--the world continues to enjoy an ever-increasing frenzy of mindless, degenerate bloodbaths and psychotic killing sprees. But I digress... As far as humans playing god, evil acts committed by people that affect other life should be stopped through appropriate "defensive" measures (e.g. implementing an international peace-combat troop, etc., practiced as far back as the old Enoch/Henok days)--not through some insane, barbaric mass slaughter that arbitrarily throws innocent men, women and children into the fray. Also, you're incorporating into this subject the (wrong) religious concept of a sin atonement through human-induced punishment, which has nothing to do with the "defense" or retaliation by nature that you compared it to. When the Plejarans speak of nature retaliating, it's simply based on a logical, calculable reaction, through chemical, biological, energy-related, and perhaps on some levels "spiritual," processes which are all anchored in the laws of Creation, the natural laws of our universe. - a species of animal exceeds the maximum sustainable level of population in a given area based on available food, etc., a natural reduction in the population occurs, whether it be through epidemics or the lack of food. - Man extracts petroleum from the Earth, earthquakes result. - Man tampers with the atmosphere, errant weather patterns emerge. These are examples of nature retaliating and are based on simple physics and cause-and-effect principles. Neither nature or a so-called "nature god" rains down fire and brimstone on a city because it is "displeased" with the actions of the humans there. This is the delusion of illogical human thinking only and can never be compared to what Ptaah and the Plejarans speak of when they refer to the natural laws and commandments of Creation, and related "retaliation." Also, the Plejarans are not "anti-Israeli." They simply recount a chronology of barbarous events that they've witnessed and recorded themselves concerning the Hebrews and Jews throughout millenia, which simply speaks for itself. The fact that this sentiment is gathered from books like the Talmud of Jmmanuel has nothing to due with anything purposely introduced by the Plejarans. It's simply a record and a rectification of events that were witnessed and written down; events which were later severely distorted to the point that religions and cults formed which may/will ultimately be responsible for the annihilation of this beautiful blue planet we live on. I consider such a rectification to be extremely in order here. Many other groups and peoples obviously fall within a similar category. And I believe Michael says it best in his lectures: The Plejarans are equal-opportunity offenders -- they usually have something bad to say regarding just about everybody. You seem to be mixing mainstream religious concepts with information in Billy Meier's texts (a dangerous concoction to say the least). And I wouldn't quote anything from Message from the Pleiades--a series that is well-known to be laden with inaccuracies in translation. Regards, Marc | ||
TerraX |
Interesting parts out of the contact-notes.The reason why the USA is Isreal's biggest supporter is because a lot of jewish people or there descendents hold high (and lower) positions in the political,militairy and industrial complex. I was quite surprised of Semjase critical tone,not that I claim she's an anti-semit.The basis of anti-semitisme is not racial in my opinion.If you look at history Jews often held positions in business ventures,sometimes monopolies (diamants). What made things worse for them is that they stayed in there own circle,marrying other Jews. That resulted in jealousy with a pinch of xenofobia which I believe is the true reason for anti-semitisme. To get back at your post Phillip,I think it's highly unlikely that the state of Isreal will be dissolved.They simply wont accept it and would rather die than give up there land.I think Semjase's advice could perhaps be a solution for a saver world allthough it's an unpractical proposal.I grant you this,since the state of Isreal was erected in 1947 (?) ,the region has been highly unstable.If the current situation in the middle east will lead to WW3 I don't know.It does have the potentail but so does any conflict. The conflict is one of different believes perhaps there is where a bridge of peace should be build. Regards,TerraX. | ||
craig |
It is not going to happen. Zionist controls the U.S. congress and media. U.S. will back Israel if UN attempt to dissolved Israel. The WWIII would be even more likely if UN attempt such action. Israel got nukes and are willing to use it. | ||
Edward |
Hi Phillip Gozewski.. You bring in some very good subjects. Well, I have not read Wendelle Stevens "Message from the Pleiades" vol.3, but there has been sort like spoken words in the material you can come across in Billy's material. I can only speak for my self. As I am not one of the FIGU-people or one of their staff...if you will. I am more a "Passerby"..sort of speaking... The FIGU-personal will give you an answer to any question(s) when it is in their knowledge to answer it. Just as the case is with myself. We are All Learning and Dis-Learning from eachother. And All Help out eachother... The comments you have read and come across about the Jews/Israelis should not be Seen as a Discriminating Factor. As I understand and acknowledge. It could have been another groep of people..on this planet, but in this case..it just happens to be the Zion/Hebrew/Jewish/Israelis. The Greater cause of the situations that concerns the Jews/Israelis goes far back when the True Prophets of The Spirit...the lineage from Henoch..to Jmmanuel(and to Billy!) have been convicted and condemned by the False Jewish scribs and priests...and others. And Not by The People... I must add. And Note...that there is a very Strikt Punishment...if you will, for those who convicted and condemned High Evolved Spiritual Beings with Much Knowledge...Know to Us As Prophets. And those who do so..will have to accept "The Consequences" that they have created. And "Meet Theirselves One Day". Untill what they have created will be "Balanced-Out" back into it's Natural State. As the people..have been Mislead, for centuries... as has with many other False Religions throughout this Beautiful planet we all live on. It is Not the people..as human beings..that are to be blamed....but what they 'Stand For' and Represent. In this case the False Teachings...that they have accepted. They can Only be Delivered...by Adapting The True Spiritual Teachings as taught by the lineage from Henoch to Jmmanuel and to Billy; being the High Evolved and Old Spirit by the name of "Nokodemjon" has tryed to teach us. I can understand the words Semjase has spoken very well. As we must try to understand that it is the False Teachings that must be Banished from this planet which they live by...in order to live a Balanced existence...and For All Mankind. For their Power and False Teachings has Gained them very Much Ground on this planet. And this can Not Always manifest for ever. As the Ways of the Jews are known throughout the Whole World....alas. For They Must Change their ways...before it is To Late..for their Own Sake..and for the Rest of Humanity. And I would like to add; I am Not discriminating the Jewish/Israeli people..as I myself come from Jewish/european/asian descent. "The Best of All Worlds"... If the state of Israel will dissolve..we can only watch the Out-Come of the situation(s) in that region. As we know, the current government will not use Common-Sence and Logic to dissolve the existing manifestations. But again, we must wait and see. Your question about the 3de World War; Well, As the situation(s) has been manifesting the last half year, one would only think...there would indeed manifest a 3de world war...by it self. As On tv...an american high ranked officer mentioned: "That We(usa) will use Nuclear Weapons if needed"! I was not surprised to hear this...in a way.(The Nixon Senarieo!) So...Our Future...does lay In The Hands of certain of those indiviuals that are in power now. We The People can now Only Protest Peacefuly for World Peace for All Mankind. What happened on September 11 of last year...was indeed a Great Tragedy for the american people and those who lost their lives should indeed be remembered. And it has Changed the Whole World. A "Wake-Up Call"(Awakening...from a Deep Sleep). But we should "Keep In Mind" that there will be people that will "Misue" this tragedy to gain their Own Goals. Which is Letterly "Going Over Dead Bodies"...if you will. And this can only...worsen the existance of mankind even more. From an Action...we must Not try and Polarize it into a Greater Action.(OverKill) I have a saying: "If you throw a stone at somebody..., do not be shocked if you are hit by a Rock." And when I mean A Rock...I mean a Rock...and Not a Boulder! Phillip...we can only sit back and see how it all resovles. And Hope the best of it. Take Care...Be Healthy.... Edward... ------------------------------------------------------ | ||
JAY |
Hi all, The PLEJARANS in General have the better say in this when it comes to "ALL RELIGIONS", as stated above, the Hebrew/Jewish religion is just one discussed in this panel. We have not even touched ground on Islam/Christianity and the likes of the history behind them. The PLEJARANS (may peace be upon them) have this traced back more or less to a 400,000 yrs of ancient time even longer starting with the OLD Lyrans who migrated and proclaimed control and appointed themselves GODS of this Solar system long ago (this Include JEHOVAH/YAHWEH/MARDUK) and the likes of countless others who created the situations in the first place. Let us all as evolve humans not take sides amongst all the madness that is going on in Isreal and all of the east, it will not be to no sollution or no avail for salvation on their part. Marc and Michael Horn have made it very clear here for all of us and I for one feel EXACTLY how they think about this and not just us alone but also others who may be outside this FIGU board. Understand the consequences we are putting ourselves in when we start bringing in ISRAEL/JUDAISM and all those "isms" to the plate here, our childhood conditioning starts to manifest itself in all the wrong ways and what do we do??... we start to take this side or that side. The Dis-service to the Planet TERRA has been done and I think it is up to FIGU and the sacrifices that the Core members have placed here should be respected fully with that of PTAAH/SEMJASE/ASKET/SFATH (may peace be upon them all). KEEP IN MIND what happened to MARS/MALONA as a warning to all from the PLEJARANS. BE WELL to All | ||
Lars |
Hello Marc You guys rebuffed me very well according to your levels of thinking, and conviction. But I think you and Michael skirted or (overlooked) a few of the issues I pointed out, such being, that those people the hebrews destroyed were very wicked idoltrous people who were sacraficing their children, (KILLING THEIR CHILDREN IN RITUAL FIRES, OFFERING THEM TO THEIR PAGAN IDOLS! I think this hardly merits these people the appelation Michael called them, that of"INNOCENT" this is the real infanticide. murder of your own children before an idol is a most serious mistake and crime that carries with it a karmic debt and penalty. Whether Yahweh was an Jschwjsch or the supernatural Creator? is besides the point here, even if Yahweh were a ET he was only acting for the ultimate spiritual good of all those peoples concerned there. Yes in those older days, by which I mean millenia ago the Plejarens still utilized a method of punishment called "ELIMINATION" and it was used for criminals of particularly barbaric nature such as hopelessly sick murderers, and instigators.In the same way Yahweh was only ELIMINATING the hopelessly degraded. It seems that Yahweh was the only ET overseer that was concerned about justice and purity on earth in those days, the hell the Egyptians subjected the hebrews to was most unjust and criminal. Yahweh recognizing this decided to free this people and teach the world a lesson, that you cannot enforce and enslave your brothers to your servitude unjutly without paying a severely high price. In this regard Yahweh wiped out the entire Egyptian army as a testament against unjust human dominance! Here's a question for you, If Yahweh was an ET and was so barbaric and wrong,as they assume, why then could'nt or did'nt the Plejarens intervene to dethrone Yahweh and install a just ET Jschwjch? It seems that the Plejarens either did'nt have enough fire power to challenge him, or they were too chicken! which was it? Finally you mentioned that "a Rectification of things distorted by the hebrews is extremely in order here" but how do you suppose this rectification will come about? By all the nations of the world voting to dissolve the nation of Israel? would'nt this entail a serious war? Israel has nukes and if attacked by a conglomerate of nations she will use them. It should be understood that all of this trobule with the peoples against Israel was forseen and predicted by the prophet ZECHARIAH, In Zechariah 12:2-3 it reads....Yahweh prophesying through the prophet. "BEHOLD I WILL MAKE JERUSALEM A CUP OF TREMBLING UNTO ALL THE PEOPLE ROUND ABOUT, WHEN THEY SHALL BE IN THE SIEGE BOTH AGAINST JUDAH AND AGAINST JERUSALEM. AND IN THAT DAY I WILL MAKE JERUSALEM A BURDENSOME STONE FOR ALL PEOPLE; ALL THAT TROBULE THEMSELVES WITH IT SHALL BE CUT IN PIECES, THOUGH ALL THE PEOPLE OF THE EARTH BE GATHERED TOGETHER AGAINST IT." Lars | ||
JAY |
Lars, Well Lars, this YAHWEH has passed on and left a legacy of madness and destruction behind, wether he has been lowered to a lower spirit form or has moved on to another realm of existence, he has left us with the SCRAP. BE WELL | ||
Lars |
Hello Jay So you say and think, But you cannot prove that Yahweh was just an ET Jschwjsch and not the Creator based just upon the testimony of mere human beings from another part of the galaxy who happen to believe he was an ET and supply a history alledging these events. While I have respect that the Plejarens truly do exist as legitimate ET's from the Seven stars, and believe alot of their wisdom is helpful and clarifies some mysteries, I do not or cannot just blindly subscribe to everything they have announced as being infallible truth. esp. when it comes to the prophesied work of the Messiah king spoken of by all the prophets from Moses to Malachi. to think as the Plejarens have told us that all these prophets writings have been falsified is sheer nonsense, and inconsistent with the facts of the literal fulfilment of these prophecies. Have you at all ever considered that what the Plejarens have told us in this regard respecting the work of the Messiah may be just a TEST given by them to us to determine just how credulous we earth humans may be??? All Iam saying is that there is room for more explanations and cognitions for these things, the Plejarens themselves live by this principle of eternal progression in cognition, so I think the Plejarens would have us challenge and prove out what they have said, and keep that which proves true and discard that which proves mistaken; and this is precisely what I have done according to what my conscience tells me. Peace, Lars | ||
JAY |
Hi Lars, Well here is a small clip I took from the FIGU website reffering to the records kept by the PLEJARANS when it comes to the crimes which have been committed in all religions, this will give you an Idea how well the records stand for themselves: 249th Contact A talk between Ptaah, Plejaren, and 'Billy'Meier, Switzerland (http://www.figu.org/us/ufology/index.htm) Monday, June 13th, 1994, 11:36 p.m "Billy: In one of our previous conversations you mentioned the number of dead who were murdered by Christianity throughout its existence up to December 31, 1992, through wars, church courts, fanaticism and other causes. You also mentioned the number of those people who were murdered by other religions over the past 3000 years. Here is my question: Does this number also include all of those victims who had been slaughtered through Judaism, roughly 3500 years ago? Ptaah: Are you referring to the 1500 B.C. period? Billy: Exactly, that is the time I mean. Ptaah: One moment. I am not familiar with this data, I must retrieve it first . . . Yes, here it is — over a period of 1000 years, counted back from 1500 B.C., a total of 19,463,000 people were brutally and inhumanely slaughtered by the forefathers of the Jews, the Hebrews and others. Billy: 19 million 463 thousand! That is an enormous number of people who suffered a forced death in only 1000 years through religious madness and racial obsession, fanaticism, church courts, commands of God, religious wars and judgments of God, along with other insanities. And all of this was perpetrated by a small group of single, megalomaniacal, degenerate people who had become obsessed with their faith. This number is almost identical to the people who had been killed by Christianity over nearly 2000 years. Yet, even today great numbers of people are murdered in religious mania and fanaticism — many of them in masses. Religions and religious sects are currently more powerful than ever before, although the opposite may seem true. Together with sciences, politics, crime, technology and the military, as well as each branch of the economy, religions are pulling everything into their powerful grip. Never before has any type of life form possessed so much power over the Earth as Man does today. And all of these people who represent and exert this earth-conquering power, the people who are in charge of all this, are so irresponsible that they never feel addressed or concerned. Everyone of them lives irresponsibly and without concern at the expense of their own, ours and all of humankind's descendants. Oftentimes these irresponsible people even carry famous names. Yet, many people who have famous names and titles, are simply major, irresponsible and vicious criminals. They don't give a hoot about the fact that the Universe, galaxies, Earth and every life form, nature, life itself and Man, are all the holy thought and holy work of Creation. These errant and guilty individuals not only deceive others but themselves as well; usually they think of themselves as being better, greater and shrewder than they actually are. They have never heard of the concept that, at all times, Man should view and comport himself merely as 'grand' as he truly is, according the motto: "Always admit to what you really are." These people want to be fawned over, and they only feel good about themselves when they are praised and adored, because they are addicted to praise and their own image. For this reason they cannot understand why they have no true friends, but only yes-men and parasites, who do not dare voice any criticism and are only concerned with their own well-being and food. None of them understands that someone who thoughtfully and justly criticizes another human being's actions, thoughts, feelings, lifestyle and opinion, among other things, is that person's true friend. He who praises but omits criticism is the worst enemy. Ptaah: May your words reach the ears of the guilty ones. Billy: Well, even if they hear it, they will hardly concern themselves with it, simply because they are so self-righteous in their irresponsible behavior that they do not even feel addressed." Well as you can see the records here speak for themselves, now why has this GOD not used his head a bit better and would have stopped this along time ago?... A GOD (Being a MAN) YAHWEH is not around to fix this now is he??? This is what the Plejarans are basically telling us, any JSCHWSH is nothing more than a man, so therefore he is no longer in our presence and in command to remedy all this chaos. The High coucil is aware of all this and this is why the MISSION of the PLEJARANS is to eradicate all this confusion and outright murder do to Religions BE WELL | ||
Lars |
Hello Jay As I said some of what the Plejarens have revealed is true and helpful to us, But this being said does not necessarily mean everything that they have said is 100% absolute truth. This is why I think that "we without them cannot be made perfect in understanding, nor they without us" But I find it unusual why you guys cannot address some of the cases in point I've called you to respecting How the bibles prophecies concerning the Messiah and Israel in the land have been literally fulfilled and will continue to be literally fulfilled in the future as predicted. and how that in light of these the Plejarens argument against the Messiah and the nation of Israel just doesn't hold up and looks absolutely ridiculous to say the least. I'm sorry but I believe the Plejarens have been mistaken and decieved by some bad sources here. And they totally lack any ability to justify their stance in light of the obvious fulfilled prophecies the Messiah has already fulfilled and will yet fulfill when he returns to SAVE the Israeli nation from its deadly enemies. Why is it you cannot address this point? is it because you lack the facts to do so? the same for the Plejarens, they should be able to answer these further questions if they take their mission as serious as you say. Peace, Lars | ||
Michael |
Hi Lars, You say, "I do not or cannot just blindly subscribe to everything they have announced as being infallible truth. esp. when it comes to the prophesied work of the Messiah king spoken of by all the prophets from Moses to Malachi." Gee, you can "blindly subscribe to everything" in the OT though. Since these belief-based discussions can go on ad infinitum, and do little to resolve an issue, why not get a copy of the TJ and read the Prophecy section in it. You say, "...the bibles prophecies concerning the Messiah and Israel in the land have been literally fulfilled and will continue to be literally fulfilled in the future as predicted." But you will find that what Jmmanuel says about the distortion of Creational law by the Hebrews leading to great suffering for generations of Jews to come, at the hands of followers of Mohammed, is being fulfilled before our eyes. You will also note that he describes what certainly sounds like the nuclear destruction of Jerusalem, people fighting with nuclear and biological missiles and the igniting of the oil of the Earth as a result of men's greed and lust for power. All of these specific, vivid descriptions unfortunately seem highly plausible considering today's technology and situations. Jmmanuel also says that the Israelis will never know peace until they make a genuine accord with the descendants of the "rightful owners" of the land. Hardly an endorsement of the biblical version of things that you refer to. You state, "I think this hardly merits these people the appelation Michael called them, that of"INNOCENT" this is the real infanticide. murder of your own children before an idol is a most serious mistake and crime that carries with it a karmic debt and penalty." I have trouble with the kind of logic that calls only one type of infanticide "real". The presumption that it's great for innocent children and infants, let alone their mothers, to be brutally slaughtered in some god's name goes beyond my ability to reason with. It is, however, the kind of religious zealousness that is the cause of much grief and bloodshed on the planet still today, all the killing in some (long dead) god's name. I have found a few people with this view who, interestingly enough, don't have children. I find the ones who do to be even scarier, blind zealous true believers who are ready to do anything for "god". I also wonder why it is so important for Israel, a religious state (the other religious states are no better), to exist in the first place. When my father's family fled the Nazis in Europe and my mother fled the Communists in Russia and then also the Nazis they came to America, met, married, raised a family, worked, etc. all without needing to have a special state set up for them to do so. There are probably more Jews living outside of Israel than in it and America has sent tens of billions of dollars so that the Israelis can stick it out in their "sacred" land, one that will probably be reduced to a glassy rubble because of ancient, nonsensical belief systems. It is painfully obvious that both sides don't wish to give up their primitive, reflexive hatreds but I think if the Jews really feel they are the "chosen people" they should make another choice, a wiser one, like choosing life over constant killing and battle. There is room in many countries for a hard working industrious people who genuinely want to live in peace. I'm glad my parents made that kind of a choice. Michael | ||
Jean Pierre Lagasse |
Hi Lars, Assuming you are trying to understand rather than simply argue...(?) I offer the following comments: "...you cannot prove that Yahweh was just an ET Jschwjsch and not the Creator based just upon the testimony of mere human beings from another part of the galaxy..." Is it possible to prove that "Yahweh" was/is the Creator? My point is that such proof should be demanded of both sides of such an argument. Also, if I recall correctly, Anthea gave a very informative response to a similar question to this, a while back. "...even if Yahweh were a ET he was only acting for the ultimate spiritual good of all those peoples..." Not necessarily so... As mentioned before, some of the old ET Rulers were barbaric and cruel. The first Adam and Eve was a mistake (amongst others) which the present day Plejarens are trying to correct with the info they gave (& associated format). Also, back in those days, the Plejarens did not have the hyperspace travel capabilities they have today. Also, their society has evolved considerably since. As Marc said: "And I wouldn't quote anything from Message from the Pleiades--a series that is well-known to be laden with inaccuracies in translation." This is so true... makes me smile when I even think of it !!! (Each time I "get used" to the newly discovered errors/omissions... I discover or am informed of even more. Although I "grew up" on these texts... I'm beginning to see quite profoundly what FIGU has been trying to tell us all along...!) My point in bringing up the above (my own thoughts only): The OT and NT are at best just as bad (if not worse) than Steven's translations !!! Lars, please do NOT stop questioning what you have read etc. You remind me of myself, about 15 years ago in my "born again days"... although the situations are somewhat different. The patience extended to me by others at that time, and also by FIGU recently, allowed me the time to contemplate all sorts of things. It took me much time... but I'm slowly figuring all this stuff out. At least some (if not lots) of the info presented by Meier (& Plejarens etc.) is quite esoteric in nature... Meaning that much of Meier's info cannot be simply read and understood. It takes time to evolve into a "way of thinking" which would allow understanding of further concepts which at first make no sense. Salome, JP | ||
Lars |
Hello Michael So you are of Jewish lineage hunh???? I have a TJ and have thoroughly examined it, while I can agree that some of it is constructive, I cannot agree that it is a genuine scripture written by Judas Iscariot, this claim is a little too far fetched, as well as the claim that the only disciple who could read and write besides Immanuel was Judas Isacriot this is an absolutely outrageous claim and belies the facts that Peter, James and John as well as Matthew all had excellent literary abilities,as can be read in their gospels in the NT. most good Jews are trained from an early age to read and write getting their education In Synagogue school. so I cannot buy that argument from the TJ. And the claim that Judas Iscariot is the true author of the original gospel is absurd beyond any compare and only proves that the evil Prince of this world has had some hand in this document. Also I cannot subscribe to those prophesies Immanuel alledgedly made about the Jews and Mohammed it sounds too much like a latter day invention by either Rashid or Meier both who are heavily pro-Palestinian, and these prophesies were only given to the world after the obvious facts of the Muslims and their hatred for the Jews. I have to be honest I read the TJ with an open mind and considered it might be real, but my conscience gave me no rest and my peace was taken this proves somethings amiss with it, I don't care if it was revealed by aliens or not. The real irony behind Jmmanuel and the Talmud is that in it Jmmanuel seems to be anti-semtic against his own people for he was a Jew, and he seems to be cheering victory for the Palestinians in the land instead of the Jews. this is another absurdity which borders absolute ill-logic,, because the Man whom Isaiah prophesied was the Savior and Messiah in Isaiah.53: was predicted also to recieve the throne of David and reign as a King over the house of Jacob forever." and all the prophecies of Isaiah, Jeremiah,and Daniel the first two being alledged (past incarnations of Billy) as those truth prophets, all these bibilical prophets predict the DEMISE of the Palestianians, who incidently are descendents of Esau and Edom traditional enemies of the Jews. the prophets predict Israel shall be SAVED and all her enemies destroyed. you should read what happpens to all the nations who make an attack upon Israel in the latter days. read the entire chapter of EZEKIEL.38: We shall see just how long this little arab and Palestinian fiasco against Israel goes on, the GOD who SAVED the hebrews from the tyrants of Egypt, will again SAVE them when all the nations move against them as predicted in the prophets. when this occurs then you people of Figu and the Plejarens will realize that the God of Israel is not dead or unaware. and was not just some alien Jshwjsh pawning himself off as the Creator. Peace, Lars | ||
Jean Pierre Lagasse |
Hi Lars, Regarding the validity of the TJ, please look up: http://www.proaxis.com/~deardorj/ If you have not done so already. I could say lots about Jim's info... but I think he says it best himself. I have a personal question of you: What are you trying to accomplish (or learn?) on this forum? If you wish, you can email me personally. Regards, JP | ||
Mark Campbell |
Gentlemen ; " A Forum for Like Minded Thinkers " Of course , those will come by and dive - bomb these topic areas will hyper-religious prattle .It's mental pugilism that defines the art of thinking . I think it's remarkable that the subject has developed into such detail . It's truly a 'way of thinking' that describes itself perfectly . 'Non thinking', would be be an adherence to antiquated vagueness . Salome , Mark | ||
Lars |
Hello JPL Yes Iam trying to understand and have been thoroughly examining the Plejaren contact notes and teachings, and I do honestly accept some of it like the beautiful spiritual discourse Semjase gave:Being CONTACT.#10. I think that discourse is so brilliant and eloquent that no other can even begin to compare with its brilliance , it's conciseness, and it's genuine spiritual purity being devoid and unmixed with any religious bunk. This I have no problem with, and may I add that it was because of Semjase's and Ptaah's concise explanations about "REINCARNATION" that enabled myself to fully understand and recieve that reincarnation is a natural law. How'ever as I have been mentioning in my posts I have had problems accepting the Plejarens "rearranged views" respecting the work of the Messiah spoken of by the hebrew prophets and their denials of this and that a Creator does'nt exist. I know otherwise, because I have had too many real experiences and miracles from the person Yeshua(Jesus) to dismiss and deny them and him. For instance I know that His death on the cross was meant to teach me the lesson of forgiveness for myself and others, no matter how many lifetimes it might take to learn and master this lesson. yes I believe in reincarnation, Yeshua even taught it, "One must be born again" before he is ready to see the ultimate kingdom of heaven. Also my body has been healed because of the death of Jesus, and I have recieved PEACE that flows like a river in my soul, and have got protected from demons and from evil possessed persons by the name and power of Jesus. Billy's Jmmmanuel cannot offer this, because he's only a teacher. But the Messiah offered in the gospels is a SAVIOR who heals and SAVES to the end those who recieve him and walk cooperatively with him. This is why I know Yeshua (Jesus) truly is IMMANUEL or God with us, Jesus is deity made flesh! no other teacher can compare with him, because he is the very Creator embodied in flesh to love us,enable us and protect us from the evil spirits who rule the earth. and if you don't think there are evil spirits loose instigating horrible addictions and crimes so much so that people lose their conscience, then you need to reconsider. I have an anointing that remains with me, and that anointing tells me what is truth and what isn't truth. finally you asked is it possible to prove Yahweh was/is the Creator? I answer Yes, when you see on TV all the nations attack the Israeli nation and try to wipe her out, and then fires fall, storms, hail, and earthquakes utterly devour these assaulting armies, then you'll realize Yahweh the God of Israel still lives and is no fiction. Read EZEKIEL.38th chapter. Peace, Lars | ||
Jean Pierre Lagasse |
Hi Mark, all... In one manner of thinking, I most certainly agree. However, When I made the rational decision to leave the "Christian movement", I felt emotionally like I had backslid etc. & this was real rough to say the least. It lasted many months... many stories. I KNEW however, that if whatever God (Creation) there was, gave me a brain and a mind, then I was to use this mind. (my thoughts at that time) My point is that: The influence religion has on people is very profound... It can take much time, patience & understanding to overcome these religious emotional influences. If one is actively trying to discover truth, while still (partially?) being influenced by all the emotional religious "stuff"... all sorts of "interesting" thoughts must be worked out (or whatever terminologies one wishes to apply). Often, simply being able to verbalize thoughts (no matter how strange) can be helpful towards this process. There is a chance, that that is what is happening here. If so, I would like to think that the FIGU forum would allow this... if, ultimately, it helps this process. As I said before, if anybody would like to discuss anything whatsoever on this... & wishes to contact me through personal email, please do so. I'd be very interested in "trading stories" !!! Salome, JP | ||
Jean Pierre Lagasse |
Hi Lars, As best as I know this from now: Being "born again", that "Jesus" died on the cross for us (& saved us from our sins), that the "God of Israel" still lives etc. etc. do exist but not in the manner in which we typically think. (thoughts from the "best of Christianity") The literal interpretations of these were twisted by the religious movements... however through the "best of their understandings" for the most part. There are logical counterparts to the above ideas... and in the teachings... although (again) not as typically thought of, as from a "religious" background. Creation and our ultimate relationship to this is far more "grand" than anything we can think up, from anything we have read... far more delicious also... (the best I can describe this for now). Our relationship with Creation is what Jmmanuel spoke of... & what the Romans & the religions mis-understood. There is much on this topic... to say the least As mentioned before... at least some of the Meier info is quite esoteric in nature. Those of us "students" will be studying this data for the rest of our lives. Will we ever fully & totally understand all of Meier's info??? I really doubt it. I don't think we can "accept" or "reject" anything... simply experience it for what it is. Relax... just let it all "settle" a bit. The typical religous thought is that we need to "accept Christ" even if we don't know anything about this... If we don't, we are bait for the devil or whatever. This blind acceptance is re-enforced over and over again in many different ways. If you don't "accept"... you are lost... forever...  The intensity of this is neither correct or appropriate... at least from what I understand. Very "controlling" also etc. An emotional residual remains after exposure to such "stuff"... for months perhaps years after. From what I've read & experienced, the Plejaren info indicates thorough contemplation on any & everything... in other words you do not "need" to "accept" or "reject" anything whatsoever... especially immediately, particularly if you haven't finished contemplating it yet !!! If I was to make a suggestion, it would be this: Simply let the information "settle" for a while... you seem to have assimilated lots. Give it a bit of time... you will know after a while which way you need to go. Nobody can nor should make up your mind for you... whichever way you eventually decide. It is your decision, and yours alone. This has been also stated by the original founders of this forum... There is NO SUCH THING as a "GOD" which will "get you"... for making the "wrong decision" !!! Also, you can decide this on your own time also... there is no time schedule for this. I hope the above helps... at least for now. Salome, JP | ||
Michael |
Hi All, this exchange reminds me of one that I've been having with a fine fellow who heard me on the Art Bell show and decided it was his personal responsibility to "save" me from something or other. We've gone back and forth for a couple of months (shows you I'm not as smart as I think) and I recently sent him the following with tongue slightly in cheek, he didn't get it anyway: You've made Christianity so downright appealing that I have rushed right out and made open-ended reservations for myself in hell, non-cancelable and non-refundable...I wouldn't have it any other way. Though I will do my best to avoid a premature arrival down south, facilitated by some loving Christian bent on saving or driving the demons out of me, I nonetheless plan on enjoying a host of stimulating activities for all eternity while you are banging out "Who Are You Calling a Lyre?" on your harp. Yes, while Jesus is fondly patting you on the head, while cute little winged cherubim flutter noiselessly about casting loving glances all over the cloudy place, I'll be enjoying bar-b-ques and weenie roasts, campfires that never end and plenty of time basking in the glow of those fiercely fiery burning embers. While you're lulled into a dreamy, thoughtless haze where everything's always pink and peachy, I'll be playing dodge-the-pitchfork and screaming "who turned off the air conditioner?" while ol' Satan really turns up the heat on me and the rest of humanity with the bad luck to be non-believers. Yes, while the high altitude and low temperatures slowly freeze your butt and brains I'll be stimulated by the fiery passion of illicit vices and immorality beyond your wildest nightmares. Packing plenty of SPF 10,000 I'll spend my free, un-tortured time working on my tan until the Devil himself says "lunch is over, back to hades!" But what is the strange, unfamiliar peacefulness I detect? Oh my, it's the absence of loving Christians who instead have joined you in happy land! Yes, there MUST be a god, a clever fellow who FINALLY gives us fallen mortals a well-deserved break from the annoying gnats of salvation by sending them all to the great refrigerated cloud bank in the sky while we, poor unsaved slobs that we are, find peace shoveling hot magma day and night without sunglasses or aloe vera gel. And you can bet that I'm gonna stay on my best behavior forever lest I qualify for the ultimate torture...being locked in a cold room with a bunch of born again converts committed to my salvation. So thank you and all the brothers and sisters who forced me to change my reservations and book my room in the palace of the great horn-headed, snake-tailed, master of darkness and evil himself. (Don't expect postcards.) And so, to insure that my reservations are not cancelled by some misguided do-gooder, I offer a prayer to you and all of my fine proselytizing friends: May the feelings and experiences of non-believers throughout the ages who have felt the loving, merciful ministrations of religious crusaders and inquisitors be returned unto you guys ten fold, daily and for all eternity. Ooooops, what are you guys doing here? I thought this place was just for us sinners! Michael | ||
Anthea Cossette |
Hi Lars, You said "I'm sorry but I believe the Plejarens have been mistaken and decieved by some bad sources here." -- So do you consider that your sources are more accurate and infallible than theirs? If all you have to base your judgement on is the Holy Bible then I'm afraid your statements are hardly credible. Any serious student of the Bible will attest to the fact that through the ages the original writings of what is known as the "Bible" today is merely a translation of a translation of a translation, ad nauseam, which definitely makes room for fatal error in the highest percentile. Not to mention the fact that more often than not, these translations were made in a manner that suited the various religious powers that be in order to justify their own megalomaniacal whim and fancy - it had nothing to do with bringing "truth" to the people. It might do well to reflect that when some modicum of truth is contained within a false concept, the false concept becomes extremely dangerous, and this is the case in a great many instances with the Bible. So with this in mind one might want to practice discernment before quoting any Bible passages to defend one's convictions, as what is contained in the Bible stands on extremely unstable ground when compared to the teachings of Creation as brought to our attention by the Plejarans and Billy. Salome, Anthea | ||
Lars |
Hello people I thank you for your considerate replies, let me mention that I do not want to make waves here, so I will cease saying anything more about God, Jesus, Israel etc. But I had to speak my mind on these topics and be HONEST , because its honestly where Iam at,for me not to do so, I would be lying. But i do have ethics and a sense of propriety by which I will abide. I hope you folks can sense this? That being said, I will grant the Plejarens the benefit of the doubt here , and just wait and see what unfolds over there in Israel. there need not be any more words or persuasions, esp. when peoples are convinced either way of their views. I will not attempt to upset, threaten, or demean you or what the Plejarens have revealed, and if I have offended any here? I did not intend to. I cannot judge anyone its impossible. As I said there is much that I accept and am thankful for which the Plejarens have revealed, and I want to stick with that, and progress into more understanding, I guess I have sufferred from a lack of association with Figu and a practice of the Meditation Billy teaches, though I do practice spiritual exercizes from which I have derived immense benefit. I agree these arguments of either trying to prove or disprove our positions is utterly futile, laborious, and a waste of precious mental energy which should be conserved and redirected into more constructive paths. I will now abide this directive and cease this laborious idiocy at once. Peace, lars | ||
Linda Williams |
Lars, I, for one, have not found your posts to be "laborious idiocy" in the least! As for making waves, I think it would be more accurate to say that you created a tsunami! *s*(aka yellow smiley face) For what it's worth I have thoroughly enjoyed this entire discussion and have been following it religiously (yes, pun intended). I think you are to be commended for the sincerity, depth and scope of your personal quest. You have shown me, at least, an unusual attempt to assimilate material from the OT and NT, from the TJ, from the contact notes along with your own personal experiences and an awareness of the current Palestinian-Israeli conflict. That's an enormous undertaking! Your apolgies are entirely unnecessary, in my opinion. I have been more concerned by what has appeared at times to be an attack upon you by a pack of dogs, and not exactly fair nor in keeping with Billy's own Desiderata: Allow other people to freely express their opinions, for they are alloted the same rights as you. You seem to allow and incorporate much of the Plejaren information into your personal belief system, and I have no problem allowing you to "have had too many real experiences and miracles from the person Yeshua (Jesus) to dismiss and deny them and him." Please do not be discouraged by an unfortunate psychological badgering or ridicule here. Actually, in many ways you and Michael Horn uphold a very similar argument for The Higher Standard of Proof which boils down to fulfillment of prophecy as a means of verifying the validity of something. Thank you so much for your independent thinking and challenge to this forum. Sincererly, Linda | ||
Marc Juliano |
Hi Linda, Lars, Obviously everyone is entitled to an opinion. I don't believe anyone here--specifically the so-called "pack of dogs"--was trying to I happen to disagree with justifying human death for anything that is clearly non-defensive in nature, as well as stating or deriving things from the Plejarans that they've never stated. Hence, my prior post (partly emotion-driven, I must confess). No intention on my part to demean or attack and my apologies if it came out that way. Lars, as far as what you said about waiting to see how things turn out, I agree with you. And, IMO, as Linda correctly stated, your posts were not laborious idiocy. Maybe laborious...but not idiocy. Everyone resolves the mysteries of life in their own way based on their personal experiences in life and nobody here is any better at it than anyone else. Regards, Marc | ||
Norm |
Lars,
If I am wrong please correct me, but some of these authors Peter, James, John & Matthew didn't write those Gospels, their names were added later as a way identify them and maybe even decieve people into thinking they were the true authors. I watched a show on the History Channel about Matthew,Mark & Luke, that Christian Scholars said they copied their info from the Q document, that has never been found. | ||
TerraX |
It's good to see that many of you realise that there's more to the Plejaren messages then meets the eye. | ||
Savio |
Dear all Perhaps Lars has bought up a good question here. He challenged the saying that Judas Isacriot was the only disciple who could read and write besides Jmmanuel. If we can provide strong support on this, I think it will be good for us all Any hints? Regards Savio | ||
Savio |
Hello I have a question regarding Jehovah, we only know that he died in 180 B.C.. Is there any informaion on when did he start acting as the Biblical God? Thanks Savio | ||
Jose Barreto Silva |
Hello Figu TruthSeekers I love to read the BIBLE my friends JUST TO DEBUNK IT!!! specially MATTHEW!!! Dear Lars, Have you ever read Talmud of Jmmanuel? if you do not have it yet please check this website http://www.tjresearch.info/contents.htm Read Talmud of Jmmanuel first Lars to figure it out who or what is the so called Messiah Jose Barreto Silva | ||
JAY |
Hi Savio, My Mother is a JEHOVAH witness and she does not even know.. (this is just an inside joke guys HA HA) Dont worry I could never be a Jehova witness I am too mentally evolved for them. Your question is on point and I believe there is some information on this on the book; "AND YET... THEY FLY". BE WELL Savio | ||
Lonnie Morton |
Hi Jay, I would be careful not to belittle Jehovah's Witnesses or any other religious group, especially since your mother is a member of this sect. We must be respectful and tolerant. I know from experience that Jehovah's Witnesses are a people of high moral integrity. They are doing what they believe to be right according to what it says in the bible. Many of them are on a high level of consciousness. We are all generally, on about the same spiritual level. If it wasn't for Billy and the contacts, it would be impossible to find the true truth in it's entirety. Please read my post under "How YOU found out about Billy Meier" for a complete explanation. And, give my regards to your mother *S*. Salome, Lonnie | ||
Savio |
Hi Jay Thanks for your response Jehovah witness? Oh no, not for you a person with logic I search through the book and it seems there isn't much about Jehovah. It was mentioned that Jehovah took over the empire from Arussem in 1033 B.C. (Wendelle Stephens?) However, I think Jehovah was in place well before Moses (1500B.C.); yet, may be he was not the only god within the old testaments. I think it would be nice if there is some information within the contact notes Regards Savio | ||
JAY |
Hi Lonnie, Thanks for the sweet words , my mother is headstrong as a Jehovah's witness, we do have a good relationship with this and we try not to step on our toes even if she tries to drill the information to me. Most Jehovah witnesses have a good or excellent social behavior amongst everyone which is a plus on their end, it should be from what I have experienced with them implemented in our society, most have a very pleasant way of being. When they visit my mother they find me quite unique in my thinking and very radical as well. I guess it takes knowing what is going on in our world to really grasp our teachings as well. I apologize to you if this inside joke bothered you however my mother and I have our debates even if they do not know or understand the ET connection within JEHOVAH and all other GODs of our ancient time. My mother sends her regards to you Lonnie even if she does not know you. BE WELL Lonnie | ||
Lonnie Morton |
Hi Jay, What I meant by being respectful, is that we must not challenge them or get into debates with them. It is tempting to do so but this is where we must be careful. We cannot prove anything to them. Everyone must be free to choose their own path in life. Because of the belief system of Jehovah's Witnesses it is virtually impossible for any of them to learn the true truth unless they go through some kind of very difficult experience to move them away from their strictly bible/religious oriented controlled thinking. It is a very powerful influence. They are aware of a great many things going on in the world and have a very strong organization that may enable them to survive longer than most people. It is just their belief structure that we cannot penetrate. If we try to, it could bring ourselves and others much harm. Sooner or later some of them, over time, will come to be dissolusioned with what they have been taught. This is already happening. I believe their membership is starting to go down. Being respectful and tolerant in this way will send a more powerful message than anything we can say with mere words. I lost my mother about 11 years ago. I didn't really appreciate her as much as I should have. She wasn't a Jehovah's Witness, but looking back I can see that she was a great woman. Please love and respect your mother while you still have her. This is a law/directive of Creation. Regards, Lonnie | ||
JAY |
Hi Lonnie, Yes, I do understand where you are coming from, you are strengthening what I have always done with my mother for the past ten years. I have long ago taken these steps not to debate with my mother or with other JEHOVAH Witnesses, is been years now but I have noticed since I do not debate she listens to some of my information as I give it to her in very subtle emissions. As you say here: "Sooner or later some of them, over time, will come to be dissolusioned with what they have been taught. This is already happening. I believe their membership is starting to go down. Being respectful and tolerant in this way will send a more powerful message...." I have known some good few who have turned away from the Jehovah Teachings for the worst and some to see other avenues (ISLAM, Budhism, etc etc). It is likely because is not giving them a foundation that is really spiritual becuase it still attaches them to other religious Christian dogmas of such. They must understand the reality of Creation and the concepts and sciences of creation to be able to see that is all on us to manifest a planetary change and not some GOD who is going to save us. I love my mother so and I respect her wishes at all times when it comes to her path in life. Thank you Lonnie for your kind words and understanding ... may peace be upon your mothers spirit form and you. BE WELL Lonnie | ||
Edward |
Hi Anthea,Linda,Jay,Marc,Michael,Jean,Grig,Terra, Savio,Phillip...and Lars... Hope you all are doing fine... Lars,I would like to say that Anthea,Linda, Jay,Marc,Michael,Jean,Grig,Terra, Savio have spoken All The Facts as they are. And in Good Details! I could Not have done a better job. "I Take My Hat Off For Them All!" What must I add? All Has Been Spoken. Take Care All.... Be Healthy.... Edward... | ||
James the truthseeker |
Greetings everyone, It appears to me that Lars was commenting on the accuracy of the Bible as to recent prophesies that have already come true as much as we may know of all the Biblical manipulations of sciptures by the pharasies, Jehovah, etc. A well known Christian author Hal Linsey(link) made some really good statements in regard to all of this. Perhaps the Plejarans can comment further on this for future refrences as many more christian believers use these fullfilled prophesies to support their faith, and will concern themselves of a final WW3 outcome as Lars just did. Also it has being my experience that with a collective number of people in a room believing in one thing, this can actually bring about the Miricles of many things and you can really feel that prana. Such is the same with many churches, temples, etc. More on that later! I personally know a guy who calls him self Prophet of YAHWEH(PY for short). This guy can actually take people outside on a clear day and call down UFOs in the name of Yahweh! Though I may not agree with everything he says, we've had many good conversations. He gave me a video of his which I can share with others, with his permission. Here is a photo of PY's UFOs I can post here with his permission.  UFO Israel link has simular UFO photos to his. I seem to recall Ptaah saying to Billy in the 251st contact that descendants of ancient GODs will want to make themselves known. Enjoy! Salome, James the truthseeker | ||
TerraX |
Dear Jose.I still find the lack of genuinity of the Talmud of Jmmanuel to much of an obstacle to accept it as the absolute truth.That the bible isn't 100% accurate is very likely since it has been rewritten over and over and was censored by men who felt it necessary to make it according to there own views. Regards,TerraX | ||
JAY |
Hi James, Yes PTAAH did mention this To Meier on Old GODs descendants living here on earth still, I think is something of a mystery in the sense that all is not told to us by PTAAH in reference to this, I am wondering if this a conflict issue between these descendants and the PLEJARANS of our time. BE WELL James | ||
Savio |
Hello Regarding my recent posting on proving "the saying that Judas Isacriot was the only disciple who could read and write besides Jmmanuel." I think of the following "justification" (not proof) on a bus .... 'So far, there is not even one hand writing of any other 11 disciples is available.' Perhaps Mr. Deardorff can confirm this? Any further comments? Regards Savio | ||
Lars |
Hell Jay and all This is just a hypothetical idea, But what if Jehova/Henn is reincarnated on earth now and is suffering under some limitations,to atone for his past actions and he sees the connexions with all this alien stuff, knows it is true. and is seeking to regain his status as a watcher or pilot? Then lets suppose Ptaah came and visited old Jehova while he was stuck in his earth incarnation and had a few words for him... what do you think those words might be? It seems that the Plejarens were quite upset with old Jehova's administration, do you think Ptaah might mock and curse at seeing big shot Jehova finally having to see and face what monstrosities he created ages ago???? Lars | ||
Savio |
Hi Lars According to Billy/Plejarens, it is a natural law that we will not remember our past lives in this life, and there will not be any award or punishment for the deeds we did in our post lives. I think it is reasonable and logical Regards Savio | ||
Anthea Cossette |
Hi Lars, It might indeed be a possibility that "Jehovah's" spirit form has reincarnated and is alive now - and then again maybe he is in the "beyond," etc., who knows? I think that even if he was to be reincarnated at present that Ptaah, or any other Plejaran, ET, would not be "mocking" him for his past deeds. Why would they? They, as well as all of us, have at some point in our past lives committed atrocious deeds and mistakes, and are still not free from making new mistakes, or from repeating any mistakes we have not yet learned from. As Savio correctly pointed out, Creation has provided that at this point in our evolution we do not remember our past lives, and there is indeed no "punishment" for past mistakes. There is only mistakes, and learning from these mistakes so as to gain knowledge and wisdom, which logically means we might then avoid repeating the same mistakes again at a future date/time. Regards and Salome, Anthea | ||
Lars |
Hi Anthea I basically agree with what you , Savio and Figu point out. I have just "gone out on a limb" to speculate as to what might happen respecting that possibility. It just seems from what Semjase and other Plejarens have said respecting old Jehova/Henn that there was some real enmity there between them and Jehova's camp. from what Semjase stated in MFP.Vo3. she said Henn or Jehova was a "mutineer" what is a mutineer but a traitor from a group he formly belonged to? So in trying to envision the ancient scenario,I reason, from whom did Henn/Jehova commit mutiny from? could it have been the Plejaren's ? could Henn have been part of the Plejaren bases on earth then? Maybe this is why other JHWH's remained around after Henn to tutor the Israeli people and prepare them for Jmmanuel's coming? And suppose Ptaah and other Plejarens came to check up on poor old Jehova stuck in and held back in earth incarnations? I cannot help but think they would rejoice in seeing old Hen defrocked and having to face the lies and abuse he dished out pawning himself off as the Creator and Lord of all mankind. its just a thought.... Peace, Lars | ||
Edward |
Hi Jay, Lonnie and All... Mentioning the Jehovah Witnesses...I Did Not have a very good experience(s) with them! I once went to a lecture night where there was a woman who claimed to have contact(s) with aliens beings. All sorts of beings. Well, that night after she lectured..she asked if anyone had ever seen ufo's. So..I razed my arm and waved to her. So she asked me to come up to her and told me to tell the groep of people of my experiences. And so I did..as best as I could do. I did happen to have taken along some of my drawings and watercolour-paints I made of what I saw and the Alien Beings I started to Dream about. I used to just call them "Telepathic-images"...as I thought at first I was having out Of Body Experiences...which they were not. I showed them my alien drawings and paints...and some seem to see Demons in them. As most of the people there were from a church society that was gaving that evening. But I just kept myself still. Well, after the lecture was over...everybody went up to me and talk to me and wanted to know more about what I have encountered. So some of use exchanged cards...etc. I have never had So Much intrest in myself...I must add. Was very Uncomfortable with that to be honest. That is just Not me. Well, within that week...I started to have the Jehovah witnesses at my door! And I was starting to not like it. In the beginning..I just told them I was not interested...but they just kept on coming back! And to a point that they were really annoying me...and I was starting to lose my temper. Which I dislike to do. All I can say is that they were really bothering me for over one whole year! Yes! Really. And I even put up a sign..for them at my doorwindow..that I do not wish any material of theirs in my mailbox..but....they just kept on putting all sort of stuff in...having to do with demons...and all that goes with it. I later found out that they had a big computer somewhere here on our world were they put in anything that has to do with ufos,occult.....etc. We were the Evil and Demons in their eyes. So that is why they were trying to Break me or what ever. I surely don't want to belong to their False sect! It happened that the woman that was giving the lecture had a son and he seem to have encounters just like his mother. And the Jehovahs did manage to take him from his mother and family. Saying his mother had a pack with the devil...etc. I really felt sorry from that very sweet woman. After calling their center acouple of times it all did stop. It took them long enough! So, I guess that was just My Mistake to go in Public with my encounters and all. I really Don't Like all that attention.... I'm just Edward and No one else..No Holy man or what ever they were looking for...some of them. Even via telephone I was being bother! Yes! The weirdest was from some one that sounded Mechanical..or something...like a robot. So..I just had to change my number. But there was more weird things. So...I will Never go out in public and tell of my encounters in person no more. Just that one time was enough. All that came with it.... I did not expect that. So this was my experience with them. They have a Bad Name here...where I live..."Putting their Foot in the door"...to make their point...and all. But I do accept that some of them are decent people.But again....they are being Misled by Fals Teachings. As Many on this planet. So I can imagine how Billy/Eduard has felt all those years...all sorts of people going after him! Poor Eduard...I really mean this. Mine was nothing compared to him. And it was To Much for me. I was just Lucky having so many encounters...in those days. And my encounters were not that special. So we should help Eduard out in anyway we can! He is just Pure Truth! So when he broke down years back..I really felt very very sorry for him. So I'm always glad to hear if Eduard is doing fine... And I hope he is doing fine these days... He needs All The Support he can get from all of us. Be Very Healthy Eduard... Take Care....Be Healthy...All.. Edward... | ||
Anthea Cossette |
Hi Lars, I can't comment about your quotes from the Message from the Pleieades - for the simple fact that (as it has been mentioned before on more than one occasion), these translations are inaccurate. I don't recall if you mention that the copies you have are Wendelle Stevens' or not? Regards and Salome, Anthea | ||
TerraX |
Hi Edward. I recall a similar experience allthough it didn't reach the proportion as in your story.I was having a conversation (on the net) with an English fellow about the subject of UFO's.It turned out he recently joined a religious order called Born Again Christians.Anyway about asking what he thought about the UFO phenomenon he quickly reached the conclusion it were 'Demons'.I fear that these kind of people don't have the capacity for reasonable thinking.After a couple of 'Praise The Lord's' I ended the conversation and not let him grasp my way of thinking. It was brave of you Edward that you toke the stand like that and I think not all the people of that society would conclude you're posessed but they're still the minority. Good Luck. Regards,TerraX. | ||
Lars |
Hello people Inasmuch as Iam trying to understand the the Plejaren messages about the Judaic-christian religion being heresy and partly falsified, I think the Plejarens produced some interesting evidence regarding the spirit councils they are subject to such as Arahat Athersata and Petale. From what I'read on this I found that the NAMES of the beings making up these councils, such as, Mjkel, Rufel, Urjel, Gabrjel, etc. are names that are similar to the names of the holy angels written in the bible and the book of 1 Enoch.and the task descriptions that these beings of Arahat Athersata perform is some similar to the tasks performed by the holy angels written about in the book of 1 Enoch. This to me evidences something! it tells me that the book of 1 Enoch must contain some truths still discernable. enough so that reasonable comparasions can be shown and concluded that there exists some tie there to truth. Does anyone know if the Plejarens postulate or have stated that the book of 1 Enoch is a work of falsified half-truths or fiction? | ||
Jean Pierre Lagasse |
Hi Lars, The Bible's NT and OT are full of errors. I think you'll find that most of the serious students of the Meier info are busy reading the German texts... or trying to learn German! THAT is where the action is... so to speak !!! There is FAR MORE information there, than all the "alternate writings" mentioned on this board recently... put together !! Salome, JP | ||
Linda Williams |
Hi Lars and Pierre, It's my understanding that the FIGU "serious students" who are learning and reading German are also passive members who can access their own password-only site and kick around issues there. This non-passive members site seems to be a bit more "eclectic," which seems to be enjoyable for some, pehaps disturbing to FIGU-ists. Many interesting questions have been sent on to Billy through the Questions for Billy area. Perhaps, Lars, you might consider sending one of your questions to him. Marc has previously posted that Billy has written an entire book (in German, howerver!) about his interpretations of several passages in the Bible. While I have been a graduate seminarian, as well as a Billy Meier (deeply personal) advocate for over two decades, I have also attempted to understand both perspectives and blend them into my belief system. I heard Marc recently saying in one of his posts that this was a "dangerous" mix. I don't think it's dangerous, Marc. I think it's about embracing different "isms," and turning away from fundal-ism. Just thoughts, Linda | ||
Linda Williams |
Hi all! Good grief! I don't know where I got a word in the above post. "FUNDAL-ISM" should read FUNDAMENTAL-ISM ! Linda | ||
Lars |
Hi Linda You gave some informative advice, thanks. You mentioned that you were a graduate seminarian and thatyou have blended two perpspectives into your belief system. May I kindly ask which belief system you have, that you have blended with Billy's material? In this respect I guess that I'm somewhat like you although I'm not dogmatic. I recognize very cearly that the Plejarens have stated that our religions are riddled with half truths, and while saying this they also said , 'Still our religions contained real worth" in other words the real core essential truths even though partly falsified are still to be found in earth religions. I totally agree with what Ptaah has spoken about this and Iam appreciative of the truth and intervention the Plejarens have brought into this world, because of them and what they have said earth humans must now wake up and become aware of the universal and creational laws that people from other parts of the galaxy live by. this in itself is a compelling confrontation and challenge which I believe will somehow alter and change religious people so that they start questioning and realize that their religion is indeed partly falsified, and that they have been kept from the more interior occult truths, partly due to the fact that the ancient peoples could not comprehend such occult matters,and due to the frustrations possibly felt by the JHWHS at that time who didn't fully know best how to handle that predicament, and so they were given exactly what their state of consciousness was ready for.In this case the JHWHS who announced themselves Lord and Creator. Saalome, Lars | ||
Jean Pierre Lagasse |
Hi all, "Still our religions contained real worth..." It was also stated that very few people could recognize the real worth in these biblical & religious writings... It is interesting to note that different religious groups often interpret the same bible passages quite differently... and argue lots about who is right !! There are many sites which have integrated at least portions of Meier's teachings into their own interpretations of the bible, new age info etc. These types of sites I avoid... If this FIGU forum becomes like one of these... I shall avoid it also. Regards, JP | ||
Linda Williams |
Hi again Lars and Pierre, First, Pierre, I doubt that you want to avoid the FIGU Forum itself but rather this particular discussion area: General/Non-FIGU Related/Religion. Personally, I don't always resonate with certain areas, so I skim over them even though I don't really connect with them, but nonetheless realize that they are of interest to certain participants. Secondly, Lars, I would like to answer your question but am hesitant to do so in this public venue as my belief system and personal experiences are very private. If you wish, please e-mail me and we can begin to talk. I see from your profile that your e-mail address is not listed, so I am unable to initiate communication with you. Sincerely, Linda | ||
Marc Juliano |
Hi Linda, Learning and assimilating the information of various belief or philosophy systems isn't necessarily the dangerous mix that I referred to. In fact, it's great to gain knowledge in several systems to truly understand them and maybe even isolate some of the signal from the noise. It's my experience, particularly in studying science and nature, that there is indeed Truth and there is indeed untruth, free from one's unique perception of it. Truth just IS, and for simplicity's sake, let's say that Truth is simply the reality that we can all collectively verify and confirm together through research. The fusion of both truth and untruth and subsequent regurgitation en masse is the dangerous part, since more damage can be inflicted now that falsities are so neatly wrapped within truth, giving the information more fuel for deception and confusion. The bible is probably one of the most prime examples of this--there is truth within there, but there's a lot of easily identifiable and verifiable falsity interwoven within there too. Anyway, you're probably aware of this whole concept. I'm just expanding on what seems to apply to the fused religious & Plejaran "nature retaliation" concept that was brought up in prior posts. Marc | ||
JAY |
Hi Marc and all, When you mentioned: "Truth just IS, and for simplicity's sake, let's say that Truth is simply the reality that we can all collectively verify and confirm together through research." TRUTH has to proven scientifically and physically in our sorroundings like you just mentioned, truth may also be anything that we perceive and needs to be addressed with solid evidence. Is like the FACTS that are hidden from the seing eye, that is what truth means to me. When something is fact it is concrete and is there for us to either keep it in our reality of existence or banish it for it to become a legend or a TRUTH and then turned into a religion. The PLEJARAN MISSION is not TRUTH and is not religious but is FACT beyond anything we can imagine because now in the 21st century we have been given the tools and some of what we consider advance technologies to have this all recorded, logged, analyzed to know is REAL, to teach and show the masses that is CONCRETE TRUTH. Religion is not concrete to the Scientifical stand point, it is more of an inspirational idea in which all humans were not given the opportunity to see what the science behind it and who were the Ancient of the past who have helped create this agenda. It has become a PAST IT ALONG AND ACEPT IT system and has made for the most part soul-less humans of all of us, NON THINKING and NON SENSITIVE. To me for the most part, the goodness of a human and the advancement of the spirit form comes within, to create an advancement of a spirit form. All the lessons which a book (BIBLE, QURAAN and others)has to teach us, is not enough to go with the reality of Spiritual advancement. "WE NEED SCIENTIFIC CONCRETE PROOF" BE WELL Marc | ||
Lars |
Hello Jay very well put. esp. where you mentioned the, "PASS IT ALONG AND ACCEPT IT SYSTEM. religious people have a collective herd mentality which as Semjaze once so brillantly said, "PROHIBITS THEM FROM ANY DELIBERATION AND CONFINES THEM WITHIN SOME UNREAL RELIGIOUS IDEAS." Religious ideas and facts are interpreted cultically by single minded lifeforms, then PASSED ON TO THE REST WITH THREATS OF ETERNAL LOSS AND DESTRUCTION OF ONES BEING." Again Semjaze brillantly answers and exposes the fallacy of earth religious thinking by saying.... "When a negative lesson(heresy) is given then the difference shows that there rises no self-generated connection towards the diffuser of the lessons, but a coercion, which IS BASED ON FEAR AND TERROR, THAT NAMELY WOULD COME DEATH AND DAMAGE FOR ONE'S OWN BEING IF ONE WOULD NOT OBSERVE THE LESSONS DIFFUSER IN HIS ORDERS. In consequence then you see the difference being within that with a real leson of the truth is generated a voluntary relation, while with a lesson of untruth or simply something negative, there is a decisive coercion or coercive idea." Thanks to Semjaze, lies, heresies ,and half truths are all now exposed and haven't a single shred to any more support them. Salome, Lars | ||
Linda Williams |
Hi all, One of the better classes I took (way back when in the 70's) was "Science and Religion," taught by the Dean of the Jesuit School of Theology in Berkeley. In addition to being a priest, he was also a physicist doing some research work at the Stanford Research Center in California. He said something I've never forgotten which seems to fit in this discussion: Belief systems are based on empirical systems. Remember, of course, that in biblical times, the world was still flat! What was believed and/or recorded was understood in terms that could only be acceptable at that time. Thanks, all, for your input. Linda | ||
Edward |
Hi TerraX.. Hope you are doing fine... Thank you for Understanding my situation on my posting. Yes, it was a very bad experience out of a part of my life. The Jehovahs here just have a way To Push their ways when they are at your door. "Foot in the door"...as I mentioned. It was so far that I wanted to "Put My Foot in the Mouth"...if I may say so. Really "Harassing" me more then bothering me. Was about to 'Hose' them down too..but they stopped just in time! Yes they do have alot to learn about life. I came to learn that the Jahovahs go to those lectures to find their game and to execute their work to "BrainWash" those people who have had any sort of supernatural experience(s)....etc. And I Know...there are some living in my neighbourhood. And there was even a documentary shown here how they try and get Single Women and Widows in to their power....mostly for Sexual advantages! "So Single women and Widows Be Warned" Some religion they have...right! As you've noticed: "There are Rotten Appels in Every Basket!" Nice hearing from you Terra... Take Care...Be Healthy... Edward... | ||
Edward |
Hi Terra... Hope you are doing fine... Nice to hear from you... Yes, thank you for understanding my situation. Well, I just knew what I saw all those years(Mid-70-ties...Mid-80ties), and through the years I was even lucky...to have witnesses too! Just as Eduard/Billy had to have witnesses too to Confirm/Verify his sightings. Hard to Convince family and friends... "Let-alone...Convince The World!"..as Eduard had to. That must have been Alot of Weight on his back. So at times...I was lucky some friends and family saw them(Ships...etc) with me. Well, 'Brave' of me...well eversince I was small I Always drew Space ships..Universes....etc. So, seeing the Dics and Cigar-ship..did put the Puzzle Together for me... So No-One could say I was Posessed...of what ever. Take Care...Be Healthy...TerraX... Edward.... | ||
Edward |
Hi Linda.... Yes....I see you have the Same problem as I... My Fingers are at times...Faster then my thoughts...Ha..ha.... And then later I see I have made some spelling errors... Then I say to myself:"Fingers Not Listening to you again Edward..ha..ha.." And even when I spell-check I Over-see some words... I wonder if Eduard/Billy...had the same problems when typing his manuscripts...at a fast rate? Some work he had to do...to get all his contactnotes together...! A very "Wunderlich Mensch" he is.... Take Care....Be Healthy...Linda... Edward... | ||
Edward |
Hi Linda...Again... I do agree with what Marc mentioned and what you mean. But on this board we all can put-in our In-Put.. as Marc being the first one to encounter All that comes in..I would say..."I can Understand his point of view." Sometimes, I still have to think and wonder if I can write this or that...when I know it may Not Be Posted! And this has Come To Pass...acouple of times! But I can Understand Marc's view of this all. And you are also correct with your "Fundal-ism"... As I know what you ment:"FUNDAMENTAL-ISM". You are very right also. Take Care...Be Healthy... Edward... | ||
Howard |
Regarding the Wendell Stevens-book "message from the pleiades", here it is on the net; http://www.galactic-server.net/rune/stewens.html | ||
Edward |
Hi Linda...and All... That is very interesting what your Dean of your Jesuit school of Theology said. And I do agree with him. "Belief systems are based on empirical systems. " As Karel Max once said: "Religion is The Opium for the people." As meaning...from hereon..they can be Controlled and Ruled...and shaped into to any form. Without being able to Think for Themselves...alas. Totally Against the Laws of Nature...and Creation..as Jmmanuel/Billy has made clear to us. Take Care..Be Healthy..Linda... Edward... | ||
Edward |
Hi Linda...and All.. That is very interesting what your Dean of your Jesuit school of Theology said. And I do agree with him. "Belief systems are based on empirical systems. " As Karel Marx once said: "Religion is The Opium for the people." As meaning...from hereon..they can be Controlled and Ruled...and shaped into to any form. Without being able to Think for Themselves...alas. Totally Against the Laws of Nature...and Creation..as Jmmanuel/Billy has made clear to us. Take Care..Be Healthy..Linda... Edward... | ||
Ilkka Hiltunen |
Hi everyone, Muhammed was Billy's previous incarnation and a true prophet like him, right? Is it then so, that all this about Muhammed being also a great warrior fighting against heathens is actually false? I mean, it's hard to imagine a highly evolved person like him teaching locals the truths of Creation one minute and waving a sabre stained with the blood of his enemies the next. But as I understand, his reputation as a war chief is pretty much undisputed in modern history books, and we're not really talking about ancient history... | ||
Anthea Cossette |
Hello Ilkka, The booklet "Those Who Lie About Contacts" has a section about Mohammed called "An Open Word" which presents a profile of the man called Mohammed explaining much about his actual task on Earth. One can obtain this booklet in English from FIGU Books (billymeier.com) or from FIGU Switzerland. Regards, Anthea | ||
Hampton Hsien-Ting Chiu |
Hi Ilkka Hiltunen: My understanding about the concept of reincarnation is that you do not necessaily have full spiritual capacity as previous incarnation had as current incarnation. Exmaple like in Edgar Cayce's previous incarnation which ended around 1945(?), he was able to access Akasha(?) record and gain a lot of information, but in his previous incarnation than the last one, he is just a British soldier died in a expedition in early colonial era. That implies even though Mr. Meier has much advanced spiritual power than us, he may not gain full access of his capacity when he was incarnated as Muhammed comparing with Immanuel or Mr. Meier now. I am sure what in history book recorded about Muhammed are true, but each physical body with same spirit acted differently. Hope this will help answering your question. Hampton Chiu | ||
Edward |
Hi Hampton and Iikke... Hope you are doing fine... Hampton, Your exmaple of Edgar Cayce has always wonder me. If he was able to "Tap" into/from the 'Akassha Records' for his predictions and others. Him being Know as "The Sleeping Prophet"...it would seem likely he could do so? I do agree with your concept of reincarnation. Every incarnation is different; Different Lessons in every Liftime. And in some cases..."Balancing-Out" of certain "Consequences" if need to be. Iikke, Muhammed did in some case utilze a Sword to Defend himself in his times. As the Religious wars were taking bigger preportions. Some had seen him as a Murderer...but when you read what Billy has to say about him...he was just Defending himself...Only...when Needed. Take Care...Be Healthy...Iikke and Hampton... Edward... | ||
Mario |
Hello, The Wendelle Stevens translations ("Message from the Pleiades") have been mentioned many times in this forum, but there´s always someone saying they´re inaccurate. My question is: all the translations by Mr. Stevens are inaccurate, most of them or only a part of them? I think the only way to get the real message is when the contact notes are translated and finished by the FIGU and its collaborators. Regards Mario | ||
mark g |
Hi All, All religion has to go no matter what. Ever since I was a kid, I knew that religion wasn't right. The only reason I even know a little about it is because of the pressure from my family and relatives to fit in. Religion is designed to grab the people who mean the most in your life and then suck you in with them. I remember sitting in mass at 4 years old and wondering if they or I was crazy.. I found out a few years later that I wasn't. To this day I still have my family and relatives ask me why I don't believe in a GOD(so to speak) and as you can imagine, I don't have much to say that they could understand or listen to. Religion has put their mind in such a fantasy land that until the rollercoaster ride ends, it won't get any better. Instead of believing in THEIR abilities, they believe in a made up God. As to how I made it without being brainwashed, I couldn't tell you. I guess I started thinking for myself at 4 instead of 30. The funny thing is that I did read the bible a few times and every time I did, I laughed at the idiotic stories that definetly were changed for ones own selfish rule. I alway's asked myself, if religion was so great, how come the world is still a screwed up mess like it was 2000+ years ago? Asked my priest this question a long time ago(last day in church), and all he said was that people are sinners. What a surprise. Maybe he should run for office with that answer.. Like he's the poster boy for ethics right? The guy used to get hammered during mass because he couldn't stand how boring he was.. If I'm going to be brainwashed, at least make it exciting... The true thinkers of this world don't need Billy's teachings to tell them that there isn't a God unlike today's religions teach. They take everything for what it is and think long and hard about it before getting skinned in the sheep line. I have to admit though, it was one hell of a lie... | ||
Norm |
Mark g, I concur, When I too read religious stuff at a young age, most of it just didn't add up for me. I think I was lucky that my parents weren't religious, and all four of my Grandparents as well. Our family is full of three different religions and they seemed to cancel each other out. My Grandparents must have gone through the You can't marry a Jew, You can't marry a Catholic, You can't marry a Protestant. To top it off I always heard the Catholic horror stories my Grandmother use to tell. I'm so glad I found Billy's materal, It had answers that made sense. | ||
Jean Pierre Lagasse |
I still remember grade 1 & a bunch of us were talking under the school steps at noon... We knew back then that the catholic nuns (who were teaching us) did not have it... we did not agree with the "stuff" they were feeding us etc. (A few very "choice" stories here... ) Interesting, how "kids" know what is "right" or "wrong" despite not having being taught this...?? JP | ||
Jean Pierre Lagasse |
The first time I met a "Protestant"... I expected them to have a tail or something ?!?! (REALLY stupid thoughts on my part, took me quite a while to "get out" of that... conscious decision on my part to do this!!) They could NOT possibly go to heaven & were people to stay away from. After we met protestants (grade 1) we decided that not only were they people like us, but they were not (somehow) subject to all the "pure crap" that we were fed by the catholic nuns ?!?!? Many stories here... I assure you all. Now, whenever I hear of the "Pope" saying this or that, I tend to cringe.... it's sort of like all the crap we were fed in our younger years coming back. I was raised catholic in a catholic school, eh? There were/are a very very few priests/nuns for whom I did have a lot of respect for personally & individually. Kindest regards to all you FIGU people, eh? JP | ||
Mark Campbell |
Hi JP ; Thanks for speaking out .Maybe soon the majority of people will see the catholic religion for what it is ; and right now it's obviously a club that harbors and protects it's own criminals . | ||
Jean Pierre Lagasse |
Hi Mark, Thanx for the thoughts... however from what I've seen (since my youth), a good portion of the people I knew/know still follow the religions. At least most of them have tolerance for what I believe, and in return, I have tolerance for what they believe as well. Some of these people are very good people, despite some of the thoughts in their minds. Somehow, not all of us "saw" the religion(s) for what they are. I could also tell stories... some good, some bad, & some of which may not be fit for a public forum such as this. Learning experiences they all were/are. Perhaps next life, eh? Regards, JP | ||
Mark G |
Hi Jean, Unfortunately your right, people are still afraid to roam away from their religion. Even though its in every country in the world, I especially see it in third world countries where religion has hindered their growth even further. The catholic church had a divine plan to go after the poor, weak and illiterate and have successfully done a good job of it. I guess Im more afraid of coming back into this world after I die and having to deal with the BS again. Does Creation give points to folks who figured out that religion is BS?? I hope so. With my luck I'll come back as a priest. | ||
Tim Davis |
Hi Mario, In another post about this subject, Marc Juliano estimates there is up to about 40% error in the 'Message" volumes. In volume 4 it is noted that Billy is not satisfied with the translation and the book was published against his recommendation. Sorry I can't seem to make the link work but I found more discussion on this from a keyword search for 'approval'. See entry no. 3 (General Area: FIGU Related: Help Wanted) | ||
Edward |
Hi Norm, Mark, JP...and All... Hope you are doing Fine... Yes, I Truly can associate with what you have all said. We are all put into this world...and we Can't Avoid religion! As as some of can Acknowledge...at a very very young age...that there are many things you will not agree with in the churches! I have had the same experience...when mentioning at the age of 10 years old...and saying to the sunday school teacher, 'But when you go further into the sky...you go out into Space. And Not Heaven!' Well, you can imagine how the teacher looked at me and the other kids! I was the 'Boogieman'..in the classroom! And Man.....did they Hate me for saying that from that time on. All those older kids wanted to do is Beat me up! Can you imagine this too! And them being religious also. So, I was more then Glad...when I didn't have to go anymore. At Last...Freed...Forever!... Surly...Us on this Figu-board...are very Fortunate to have Found Truth.. and are Expanding...our Spirits to Greater Levels. And will not Hang-on in that Endless...cycle of UnTruths. We should see ourselves as being very very Fortunate. As I would say: "Religion is Collision"....alas. And this has been proven...much to offten. But again...we must try and bring up Tolerance...if possible. Take Care...Be Healthy. Edward... | ||
Norm |
Contact 241 on February 3rd 1992. Ptaah- Due to the celibacy law there is a practice among members of the Catholic priesthood of secretly fulfilling their lust. This may take the form of bisexuality as well as sodomy homosexuality or heterosexuality. As I have said, this fulfillment of their lust takes place secretly because of the celibacy vows, which is the reason why clerics use married women and homosexuals, as well as children and animals. But this is the case also among non-clerics on earth when they indulge in the fulfillment of their sexual lusts. Within the Catholic priesthood, at a rate of 98%according to our calculations, many members-even all the way to the highest ranks of their organization-secretly gratify their sexual lust. AIDS, the sexual epidemic, which today is already widely spread among members of the Catholic priesthood. This is kept secret still by any means possible, of course. It will not be very long now before this bill becomes public knowledge, however. | ||
Lars |
Hi Norm, Wow! What a timely piece of info: Ptaah let the cat out of the bag years before the present scandals involving the priesthood of the Catholic Church. Ptaah is a true prophet as well as an analizer of earthmen! earthmen can hide nothing from their investigative scrutiny! "There is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed, whether it be in the past,present, or future." Jmmanuel: Lars | ||
Norm |
I just finished reading a book called Muhammad:A Biography Of The Prophet (1992) by Karen Armstrong, and I came across this on page 12. "If fundamentalism seems particularly rife in the Muslim world, this is because of the population explosion. To give just one telling example: there were only 9 million Iranians before the second world war; today there are 57 million and their average age is seventeen. Radical Islam, with its extreme and black-and-white solutions, is a young person's faith." | ||
Norm |
I thought this was interesting also from the same book. I will paraphrase. Muhammed was woken by Gabriel, lifted onto a heavenly steed called Buruq and flown miraculously through the night to Jerusalem, the Further Mosque. Then a ladder was brought and Muhammed and Gabriel climbed to the first of seven heaven's and began the ascent to the Throne of God. At each stage he saw one of the great prophets, Adam, Jesus and John the Baptist, Joseph, Enoch, Aaron and Moses, Abraham in the Seventh at the threshold of the divine sphere. We have Gabriel's involvement again. There's that # 7 again. "flown miraculously through the night" in a Beamship? I wonder if the "Divine Sphere" is the Beamship or the Creation orb? | ||
Edward |
Hi Norm... Very Interesting Posting! I Agree Fully with Muhammed's Ecounters! With Extraterresterial beings which I have Acknowledged for many years. You have it at the Right end... And Surely Gabriel 'Pops-Up' many times as I have known for some time now too. Take Care...Be Healthy. Edward... | ||
Norm |
In the Quran it states about Polygamy. Sura 4:3 If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice. Another link to the Plejarens & Gabriel. | ||
Lars |
Hi folks, I thought this to be an interesting piece of info it regards a statement made by the prophet Joseph Smith founder of the Mormon belief system. He once remarked in the 1830s that there were "people who lived on the Moon, who were tall about 6'feet and who dressed plainly like Quakers." Joseph made this statement in the 1830's way before our modern technical discoveries. he claimed that he was in contact with God and angels, and there are references in his revelations which point to the existence of extraterrestrials on other planets. He also once made this astonishing statement to WW.Phelps,which later was printed in the "Times and seasons" paper v.Jan.1,1845 Joseph told Phelps,"That Creation has been going on in this system for 2,555,000,000 years, and said that our solar system and planet is much older than our religions profess. Now how could Joseph have made such a statement if he did not know something about creatioanl law? or from contacts with superior beings? His statement is profoundly similar to what the Plejarens have told respecting the expansion of the creation for 311,040,000,000 years!!! Could Joseph have had contacts with ET's who have bases on the Moon? and their dressing like quakers be uniformed space flight suits??? could they have taught Joseph about the age of the sol-system? Lars | ||
Norm |
Did Billy ever mention Ezekiel anywhere? | ||
Edward |
Hi Norm... Why do you ask about Ezekiel? I know who you mean. Have read much about him. Also being a Prophet as it was written...and Contactee as some have written about him also. No, I Never came across his name in any of Billy's material. I was wanted to discuss about him myself...but I thought..just keep the postings as much on Billy as I can. Take Care...Be Healthy. Edward... | ||
Norm |
I was wondering about him. A book by former Nasa scientist got me interested. The book The Spaceships of Ezekiel by Josef F. Blumrich says Ezekiel may have had ET contact. | ||
Edward |
Hi Norm... Sorry I did not get back to you right away. It was time for me to 'Tap' from the Akashic Records(Bed time.... ....) Well..I have read Blumrich's books back in the 80ties and what others had written about him and they are very interesting! Ezekiel being to me...a Small prophet and having a Contactee-soort encounters. It has even been mentioned that he even took trips to the Inca and Mayan countries and he discribed the pyramides there. And he took trips to other parts of the world and middle east. Well, just read what Blumrich has to say Norm. It's good food for the Mind...I wou say. But again, Only Billy and the Plejarans can Verify Ezekiel's Contacts. But even if you read about him from the Bible... what he is encountering is an extraterresterial space craft....etc. I would Acknowledge this also..just as other Great Prophets and Small Prophets have had. Take Care...Be Healthy. Edward... | ||
James the truthseeker |
Greetings Lars, For some time now, I have had some intuition that the spirit of Billy was the prophet Joseph Smith in a formor lifetime in the old mid west. If Billy does know anything about this, then he aint saying anything about it at this time. It is true that Billy does know of a former lifetime in the old mid west according to his son Methuslem Meier. As you may will know: -Billy has a fascination of the old west and even became a sharp gun shooter which still remains with him today in this life. -Billy never actually killed anyone in self defence in that life or in this life. -Amazing simularities exist between Joseph Smith and the other prophets like Jmmanual, Mohammed, Billy, etc, SUCH AS: polygamy, wisdom relating to truth, past history as it really was, they where often persecuted and where all in contact with angel type ETs who were able to show them archeological past historical artifacts. -In the TJ itself(chapter 4), you'll find a refrence to Gabrial taking his son Jmmanuel up in his space-craft to and between the the lands of the north and west. Possiblity that Jmmanuel was givin the oppertunity to visit the Americas, though the TJ doesn't give a direct refrence of this, You can find it in the earlier Plejaran contacts. Moroni himself would thus have knowledge of this from his own people. Take note Hyperborea existed as Greenland and the state of Florida in privious times. -Jmmanuel in the Americas at(3 scrolls down): http://www.tjresearch.info/overview.htm -The book of Mormon was rewritten to conform to Biblical texts. Salome, James TT. | ||
Lars |
Hi James, Interesting,ideas you bring up about Billy possibly being the prophet Joseph Smith..... But I think it rather unlikely, otherwise it would have been mentioned or included as one of his "truth prophet incarnations"... I just found it fascinating what Joseph Smith said respecting that, "Creation has been going on in this system for 2,555,000,000 years" This is a remarkable statement to be made by someone in the 1840's. Joseph must have had contacts with space people from other planets, or spirits in order to make such a statement about the time period of creation. His statement quite agrees with what the Plejarens have said how that creation expands for one great time 311,040,000,000 years. it appears that joseph knew a little something about creational law.... This is just an opinion or thought, What if Joseph Smith had former incarnations among ET races on other planets? Another remarkable thing Joseph Smith produced was the idea or teaching that God is a man and lives on a planet near a central star called Kolob! Ref.see The Book Of Abraham In the PGP.scripture of the LDS church. he thus separated god from the creation and taught that god was a creature of the creation who only became a god through effort. This is vaugely similar to what the Plejarens have said. Lars | ||
James the truthseeker |
Greetings Lars, Sense Billy has mentioned that he HAS had an incarnation in the old mid west, I'm still more inclined to say that Billy's spirit did have a former lifetime as Joseph Smith, even if this name is not found in the "truth prophet incarnations". I just happen to know that Billy does not think highly for much of North America at this time and may have purposely left the name out for that part of the world. Or perhaps he doesn't consider that life time as a "true prophet incarnation", or perhaps he was only refering to true prophets of the East. Billy's spirit having actually incarnated at that time, would still be AWARE of the spiritual creational laws. It is as you say; "Joseph Smith had produced the idea or teaching that God is a man and lives on a planet near a central star called Kolob". Here is yet another simularity to compare with the other true prophets of the East and Billy himself! Salome, James TT. | ||
Lars |
Hi James, Just because Billy had an incarnation in the old mid -west does'nt prove he was the prophet Joseph Smith.... One thing I think that disuades that he may have been Joseph Smith, lies in the dis-similar appearance of the two. if you will compare a picture of Joseph with that of Billy Meier, one can observe that the facial appearance is quite distant from the other. Joseph smith's face and nose is much longer and handsomer than Billy's is and Joseph's eyes are more almond shaped than Billy's. It was Semjase herself who used past paintings of historical figures with present ones as a means of showing past life ties. for instance Semjase showed Billy the bust of Plato and then a picutre of otto Muck and said Muck was once Plato in a past life. Thus upon this basis Iam inclined to believe Billy was not Joseph Smith. Rather Iam inclined to think Joseph Smith may have been Judas Ischarioth, and that he may also have lived past lives on Erra or another star system. Here's an imaginative twist, Semjase was once married to a Plejaren guy who lost his life in a solar accident right? this obviously was no mistake, because there are no mistakes karmically speaking. so that incident must have been karmic. what if Semjase's former husband had been one of the bad JHWHS of ancient times, then later incarnated as Judas Iscariot having to suffer an identity crisis because of his being a bad JHWH before, pawning himself off as a creator -god like maybe Arus or jehav or the like? Then still later Semjase's former husband became the prophet Joseph smith, and maybe had some contacts with the Plejarens back then who informed him again about Creational law? and that is why Joseph could make that statement that "creation has been going on in this system for "2,555,000,000 years." It's just speculation or imagination, but what if it turned out to be true? Lars | ||
James the truthseeker |
Greetings Lars, As much as I may believe in the possibility that Billy was Joseph smith in a former life, this here to is speculation on my part. Concerning the appearence of the paintings and portrits, I thought about this to of which could lead into 2 possibilities: One, Joseph Smith himself was not the actual prophet of which this spiritual information is oringinally from. Two, the painting of Joseph Smith may not be an actuall painting of him in much the same way that paintings of Jesus look very different from the paintings of Jmmanuel drawn by Semjase. What you really need then is some photos. The founders of the Mormon church may have even altered the original portrit of Joseph Smith in much the same way they would edit the book of Mormon to fit a more religious text. The idea of putting Semjase's former husband into the picture would simply not fit as spirit forms can not incarnate off planet ulless they travel physically through space. Salome, James TT. | ||
Lars |
Hi James, You got your point across. About the case for spirit forms that cannot incarnate off planet( in this case Semjase's dead husbad) while that is true for the majority of spirits, It may also be true that those spirits having heavy ties and karma to a past planet may incur an obligation to return to that planet if they cannot face and live up to reality and responsibility on the new planet. This seems only logical and fair. Regards, Lars | ||
James the truthseeker |
Greetings Lars, As anything may be possible, I still think it is highly unlikelly that Joseph Smith is in anyway related to Semjase's dead husband, because in the 251 contact, it was mentioned that for all those ETs who died here on Earth in former lifetimes, not one of them has returned back to their homeworlds. Salome, James TT. | ||
Lars |
James, Just speculation and creative imagination... I like to think very deeply on subjects and entertain every possible connexion or relation. What'ever is, IS, regardless of whether people can understand and accept it or not. And what'ever really IS, will show itelf sooner or later. Salome, Lars | ||
Materiah |
What if billy being all the major prophets in this world, including Joseph Smith, is actually the false prophet in the revelation? He is every prophet besides Jesus Christ, the one Judas altered to be Immanuel. It's quite obvious, isn't it? From a christian point of view, it might be looked upon like this. But everything depends on faith, doesn't it? | ||
Billy Corgan |
FIGU says that overpopulation is a problem, yet they want people to pay for the medical care of "passive member H. P." http://www.figu.org/us/active_alliance/index.htm Maybe BEAM will keep the money for himself. Maybe BEAM is a conman... Maybe you all are suckers, fooled by a greedy old <censored>. Please use your brains for once. | ||
Norm |
Corgan(fake name), Maybe you are the blind fool! | ||
Shannon |
Materiah- The Bible can be interpreted in many ways, so how do we know that the translator of the Bible interpreted it correctly, in its entirety? Why should one interpretation of the Bible be blindly followed ? I feel the need to find the truth, and Billy's wisdom has shown "light" on the matter. The teachings do not go against the Bible, rather they are interpreted differently. Semjase - "He shall increase his search for truth, and he shall know about the power of wisdom" *pureharmony* | ||
Mark Campbell |
This "Billy Corgan" is obviously a very bitter person , who is in alot of pain . He should find love somewhere in life , because he has none . Mark Campbell | ||
Hampton Hsien-Ting Chiu |
Hi Mr. Corgan: To mitigate or resolve the overpopulation problem does not mean not saving the existing living human beings, strict birth control should be and is proposed by Mr. Meier. According to your logic, if not paying medical bill will resolve the overpopulation problem, then we do not need hospital, or only rich people who can afford medical treatment will survive. BTW, I believe I use my brain. Hampton Chiu | ||
Shannon |
Just more proof that there is SO MUCH we dont know or understand yet..... Prophecies by Ezekiel, Jeremiah and Daniel not found in the Bible are written in the Dead Sea Scrolls. There are now identified among the scrolls, 19 copies of the Book of Isaiah, 25 copies of Deuteronomy and 30 copies of the Psalms . The Isaiah Scroll, found relatively intact, is 1000 years older than any previously known copy of Isaiah. In fact, the scrolls are the oldest group of Old Testament manuscripts ever found. The scrolls contain previously unknown stories about biblical figures such as Enoch, Abraham, and Noah. Also information such as this in the scrolls -The Essenes were attuned to the angels. They developed the field of Angelology. -Search for the Truth- | ||
James the truthseeker |
Greetings Materiam, In my opinion, faith is not the path of truth, because eveyone believes what they want to believe, yet belief keeps us from the truth. Yet look at all the different dominations of churches out their who can't even agree on just the most simplest things "in their own Bible"!, let alone that 90% or more Christian believers don't even know the history of their own church sense the time of Jmmanuel. It's like what the Pope once said to the Dalai Lama. "If we tell people the truth now, they wont believe us anyway"! After reading about GOD myself in the Bible, I'd say that the GOD of the old testament in particular had one BIG EGO who himself desrciminated the Jews from the rest of the world to justify the Killings of millions of people. Also, lets not forget the mass murders of millions of people in the name of Jesus during the times of the inquisition. It would be an insult to my soul to call myself a Christian with such blind faith. Peace, James the truthseeker | ||
James the truthseeker |
Greetings Mr. Corgan, You come to some very STRONG ASSUMPTIONS concerning the well being of FIGU passive member H.P. Truth is, we need you to donate some money to her so that she can continue to translate the rest of Billy's German information to English, concerning what Billy has to say about OVERPOPULATION and how it can be delt with!!! Just think!, by helping this one person, you are helping to Save the planet! however, that is YOUR choice of course. Or you can choose to continue your blind assumptions of other people.  James the truthseeker | ||
Scott B. |
Mr. Corgan, Your comments cannot be taken seriously, because you are speaking from ignorance. Heidi Peters, translated a good portion of most of the English publications available from FIGU. This includes all of the English Bulletins, contact 251 among many other assorted articles. Personally, I don't think Heidi will ever regain her capacity to translate as she once did. Whomever Mr. Corgan proports to be, your words reflect the level of character you possess....or lack thereof. | ||
Shannon |
This is IMPORTANT-I am reading books omitted from the Bible—in their entirety, in "MISSING BOOKS OF THE BIBLE, VOLUME 1 & 2." I see now that the control, domination and oppression of WOMEN is in part due to the editing of the Bible's original text. There is much to read concerning the respect men should carry for women. Things really aren't as bad as they used to be, but any woman who has ever been with a controlling man feels that the womans intelligence is not respected. We work hard and deserve respect, and carry on man's seed-something to be appreciated. We have much to offer mankind. Its good to know the truth. http://store.yahoo.com/harrietcarter/misbookofbib.html | ||
Shannon |
Concerning Hidden Knowledge-The Book of Enoch (also known as 1 Enoch) was once cherished by Jews and Christians alike, this book later fell into disfavor with powerful theologians - precisely because of its controversial statements on the nature and deeds of the fallen angels. The Enochian writings, in addition to many other writings that were excluded (or lost) from the Bible (i.e., the Book of Tobit, Esdras, etc.) were widely recognized by many of the early church fathers as "apocryphal" writings. The term "apocrypha" is derived from the Greek word meaning "hidden" or "secret". http://www.reluctant-messenger.com/enoch.htm http://reluctant-messenger.com/main.htm | ||
Mark Campbell |
Hi Shannon ; Thanks for keeping this thread positive whilst under attack from the 'peanut section' critic . In the writings of Nicholai Notovich , who ventured to tibet and India in the early 1900's , there are verbatim transcripts of ancient scrolls of St. Issa , who fits the description of Jmmanuel exactly . Within the account is a section devoted to Women , and I will Quote without reference here ..." Treat every woman as if she were your Mother , Wife , Daughter or Sister . They are what makes life worthwhile , and without them , life doesn't amount to much ". Like I said , it's stricktly from memory , but it stuck with me . To me , it stands as one of the most relevant parts of Jmmanuel's teaching that is missing from the NT . I recall a similar text somewhere in the TJ . I will have to find another copy of that book ( I don't recall the name ) , since I gave it to a friend last year . Mark | ||
Edward |
Hi Materiah... Hope you are doing fine... Well, first of all...Jesus Christ Never Existed! And if you really have studied your faith correct...you will come across the name Immanuel=Jmmanuel many times...but for one reason or another he was Pushed into a corner...so to speak. I would Acknowledge.. because HE IS THE TRUE PROPHET! Concerning Jesus Christ..: it is a Fabricated name just as many other things were fabricated in the Bible(as in other religions also). For the Advantage...of just One People to gain Power over The People... and the planet. And if you look around you...you can see what This groep of people had brought us! They were The "Ur-Cause" of it all... and they have also... Sold their Soul/Spirit to the Devil...if you will...in your Biblical terms. Most of us here on this board were brought-up with the Bible... 'Porridge-Spoon-Feed'(from knee high)... which One can Not avoid..., but Deep down inside of us...we Know that there is More Truth..than what is being Indoctrinated to us. And so we Seek..Further..to Know... and to Expand our Spirit. As Billy's(just as Jmmanuel) material(s) is Not a Religion...but a "Teaching/Philosophy".. and One can Still be One's Own Self. All I can do is Advise you to purchase his Books and Booklets... and read them...and Than Judge! A New World has Opened for All of us here...and many others who Seek The Truth. Take this Chance...it can Not harm you... It can Only Expand Your Wisdom and Knowledge! As it has Manifested to us. "Why take the Narrow path...when there is a Wide path." Take Care...Be Healthy. Edward... | ||
Edward |
Hi Alias Billy Corgan... Hope you are doing fine... ...? I would like to give you the same Advise I have given Materiah.(SEE ABOVE!... ...) Than Judge..."What IS and What IS Not!" Give us a Chance to be your Friend...and Do Not let Ignorance be your friend...or you will be Lost for All Times To Come! "When it gets down to the point....A Lie...Hurts More...than The Truth!" Take Care...Be Healthy. Edward... | ||
Hampton Hsien-Ting Chiu |
Hi Materiah: I sure hope that you come back to this site often and my Bible questions can be answered from a more religious point of view, since I am not religious nor most of the people on this board are. I attended a Christian University in Taiwan for one year, before I transferred to another Public University, which cost substantially less. During that time, I studied Bible for the first time in my life, and the more I read, the more question I have. Maybe your precious opinion will assist me in resolving my question. 1. If there is a person called Jesus Christ, whose original name is Immanuel(Jmmanuel), and this person is teaching people not to worship any idol, is it logical to believe such a humble person will accept the name 'Jesus Christ' instead of the name given by his parents? 2. In the Bible, it mentioned about concept of reincarnation, I quoted the chapter in previous posting, but I only remember the story now, which is Immanuel is talking about Elijah(??) had come back to reincarnate as John the Baptist. If the idea of reincarnation exists in Bible, why people does not believe in god like me will go to hell forever? I should be reincarnate after a while? Or any God believer, even go to heaven, will reincarnate? So Heaven and Hell are not a permanent stay for us? 3. I think it is only logical before any one read Bible, the possible reader should be warned by the following sentence: "Beware, if you open this book and you do not belive in it, you will go to Hell, if you do not open this book, you might still have a chance to go to Heaven." Though it is too late for me now, for I will go to Hell according to Christian definition for sure. But for my children, I will warn them, before they open the Holy Bible, if they are not ready for it, don't even touch it, or you could end up in Hell. Is that logical? If anyone read about Bible, and choose not to believe it, then the person will for sure go to Hell, but if one person never read a bout Bible or not knowing the book, the person will have a chance to convert after death and go to Heaven. And if John the Baptist's previous life is Elijah, does this apply to all people? Or does reincarnation only apply to some few people? You can see I do have a lot of question, and that is why I can not believe in Bible yet. I believe the truth lies in Vatican, they for sure will have the oldest version of Bible, and the wording will be different, if Catholic church allow scholars to study the oldest version of Bible, plus the death sea scrolls, we will know more about the true Immanuel teaching. Peace. Hampton Chiu | ||
Shannon |
Thou Shalt Party Before Thy YHVH September 21 to 29, 2002 In Deuteronomy 14, YHVH commands Israel to party and rejoice with wine or strong drink every autumn. YHWH told his people to choose whatever meat they wanted as they feasted and partied for a week! The great party of the Feast of Tabernacles has begun! In order to make sure that everyone can make the party, YHVH instructed everyone to save one tenth of their increase so they could make the party. For the poor, make sure you invite them and pay their way. By having Israel come together and party and rejoice before YHWH, it represented in advance the time when all of the world would be at peace with abundance for everyone. This week long party is symbolic of a 1,000 year peace and a time of unparalleled prosperity. Rejoicing before YHWH requires one to be grateful and appreciative of everything one has. Additionally it is best expressed as generosity to others. Salome, pureharmony | ||
Shannon |
MATERIAH-You should check out this website!!!! http://www.tjresearch.info/contents.htm (Discovery of the Talmud Jmmanuel) Plus you can buy the translation at the FIGU book store. | ||
Norm |
Hampton, Read this, there is a mistake in the older versions of the TJ. Tom, "In the Talmud, Jmmanuel says that John the baptist is Elijah reincarnated. how is this possible when FIGU says that Elijah was one of Jmmanuel/Billy's previous incarnations??? Andrew C. Cossette Wednesday, August 30, 2000 - 11:52 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi Tom, Very good observation. The version of the Talmud you have has some mistakes in it. Since then, many mistakes have been corrected (by Billy) and the new 3rd edition should be released soon. In chapter 11, verse 19, the name of Elijah should read Elisha." | ||
Hampton Hsien-Ting Chiu |
Hi Norm: Even though it is/could be a mistake, the concept of reincarnation is there, and that contradicts the eternity of happiness(Heaven) the church promised. Plus, I think Elijah may be mispelled in the Bible, yes, Elijah's spirit form is reincarnated as Jmmanuel then Mr. Meier, But could it be John the Baptist's previous life could have a name similar to Elijah? Peace. Hampton | ||
Norm |
Hampton, The new corrected printing of The Talmud Jmmanuel now has Elisha not Elijah as Johns past life. | ||
Lars |
Hi Norm and all, But it cannot be Elisha because Malachi.4:6 predicted, "And I will send you Elijah the prophet before the great and terrible day of the Lord comes, to turn back the hearts of the fathers to their children. lest I come and smite the earth with a curse." The prophet Malachi's book was written in hebrew and the Hebrew says, "Elijah the prophet" will come not Elisha. So upon this basis, I think Billy's data and claim to once being Elijah the prophet may be incorrect. Also all of the predictions the hebrew prophets ever made have come true and are coming true to this very hour. for example all of the trobule between the jews and Palaestians was predicted by Ezekiel. When all is said and done the Jews will still come out the victors, because all of the great prophets predict the coming of the Messiah king who will wipe out all those enemies of the Jews There is going to be a supernatural display of power between the forces of Light and darkness. Beware lest any many decieve you, for there shall arise many false Christs and false prophets. Lars | ||
Norm |
Sending Elijah the prophet. I would think meaning the coming of Jmmanuel, not John. | ||
Linda |
Hi all, So, the ten per cent, or the tenth of increase described in Dutermony, a ten per cent tithe makes sense with current Sunday church-going people. In other words, some religious peole are still offering their 10 % money as a tithe every Sunday. My 2 cents about 10 % | ||
Shannon |
Hey! I found "The Codex" (The Secret Teachings of Jesus, actual title) in my Public Library, I believe that Semjase spoke of the Codex, even though it says Jesus instead of Jmmanuel, I am impressed with Semjase's knowledge of the contents of this writing. It is very, very similar or same in teaching as the Talmud Jmmanuel. Shannon | ||
Shannon |
Savio- surely. (The Secret Teachings of Jesus- Four Gnostic Gospels) translated by Marvin W. Meyer- First Vintage Books edition/1986 Originally published by Random House Inc/1984. Book Description In December 1945, two Egyptian fellahin, digging for natural fertilizer in the Nile River valley unearthed a sealed storage jar. The jar proved to hold treasure of an unexpected sort: a collection of some fifty-two ancient manuscripts, most of which reflect the teachings of a mystical religious movement. About the Translator Dr. Meyer, a scholar long familiar with the Nag Hammadi texts, offers here a fresh and lively translation. Here is what the book looks like http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0394744330/inktomi-bkasin-20/104-7892001-8164719 This book (so far) goes into greater detail than the Talmud Jmmanuel about our physical manipulations, and our "creators" being jealous of us, because we turned out to be more like their creators than they were. *pureharmony* | ||
Savio |
Hi Shannon Thanks for the information I took a look at the amazon.com. It seems that the book is a religious one, in no way it can compare with the TJ that talks about the philosophy of life. Can you share your point of view regarding that the book goes into greater detail than the TJ ...... ? Regards Savio | ||
Norm |
From James Deardoff's website on Elijah & Elisha. "In the TJ verse, "who was to come again" refers to John as being the messenger prophesied in Malachi 3:1, and mentioned four verses earlier in the TJ, who would be sent to help prepare the way for Jmmanuel's ministry, with this John being the same soul as Elisha. Thus the interpretation is not too different from one that can be drawn from Matthew, except for Elisha having been John's past life, not Elijah." "It should be mentioned that only after 1992 did Meier learn from one of his contacting ETs that in the TJ verse "Elisha" had incorrectly been translated or typed in as "Elijah" here -- so he corrected it to read "Elisha" in the 1996 version." http://www.tjresearch.info/mt11.htm | ||
James the truthseeker |
Greetings everyone, Concerning the way of thinking for religions as mental addictions, I found the following links: Warning!, only read the "12 step text" of this page and don't click on the connecting links as these are ruined or destroyed!!!: http://www.geocities.com/church_of_hank/fundamentalists_anonymous.html This site is very interesting and its links are in good order: http://www.mts.net/~dkost/index.htm Peace, James TT. | ||
Savio |
Hi Shannon Can you describe a bit more on the "The Codex" you found? Is it a hand written book? And by who? Regards Savio | ||
Hampton Hsien-Ting Chiu |
Hi Lars and everyone: I really enjoy Lars' opinion here, it makes this forum more realistic, not a lot of people believe in Mr. Meier's case, most of the people in US are religious, they all share similar views like Lars. We are here to discuss Mr. Meier's case, either you believe it or not, hopefully in a polite and constructive way. I am not trying to convert any one to anything, just to provide my opinion to share with anyone interested. But Lars, I have question for you, which I have posted in forum before, but I also did not hear any satisfoactory answer, though I should post it under religion, but for your convenience, I will post it here this time, if moderator disagree, then it may be moved somewhere else. Here is my question, is Immanuel the same as Jesus Christ? In the Old Testament, a prophet mentioned several times that a maiden will give birth to a son, who will be called Immanuel, but in New Testament the person was called Jesus Christ in the very beginning, no Immanuel is mentioned. Unless Immanuel = Jesus Christ, else one of them is wrong. One of my religious friend told me the two names are the same meaning, but if it is the same, why not use Immanuel? Is that the name given by his parents? Is it logical to say this person was name Immanuel first then change name to Jesus Christ? If a person is so humble to ask his fellower not to worship any idol, why he would want to change his name? which is like a symbol or idol? I believe Old Testament is more accurate, the name should be Immanuel, not Jesus Christ, and I belive this before I read Mr. Meier's case. The old Jewish Bible simply recorded what the 'GOD' teaching to Jewish people at that time, does that still applied now? I did not see any common practice of killing animals in Jewish church. I think it would be fair to treat Jewish Bible like a history textbook. To answer some of your question, like why would nearly all of the 12 disciples end up giving their life as martyrs for their Master's work? I think everyone of them decided their own path, if anyone of them decide not to spread Immanuel's teaching, he would probably live longer, but their fate is mostly determined by themselves, all of them knew Immanuel's ending, but they still decide to continue his work, thus determine the sad ending of each disciple. Maybe Immanuel knew what is going to happen, but he nevertheless continued his task at that time, because it would be the most correct thing to do judging from the information available to him, and he would need to make a decision to continue preach his teaching or not. Mr. Meier faced the similar question, Asket told him what will happen to him if he continue his journey to India, he would lost his hand, he would get married with a girl in Greece, etc..., but if Mr. Meier decided not to continue the learning journey to India, all these events will not happen, and different consequence will occur. If my answer to your question is not satisfactory, please let me know. Peace. Hampton Chiu | ||
Lars |
Hello Hampton, Thanks for your efforts to answer my questions. You asked me, "Is Immanuel the same as Jesus Christ? obviously the names are different, one being hebrew, the other greek. as well the name Immanuel in hebrew means God is with us", while Jesus Christ in greek means "Anointed to save" or Salvation." It is interesting to note, that Mary and Joseph were Jews who spoke in Aramaic and hebrew at synagogue. so when the angel Gabriel appeared to Mary and promised a child would be born of her who would be called, "YESHUA" or YAHSHUA" meaning Saviour or Yahweh-Saves. Now the name Jesus basically means the same thing Savior and Salvation, and this is the greek form of the name of Yeshua, it was used by the apostles for the greeks so they could relate to understand it better. linguistically the name has all of the same value and meaning as it's hebrew derivative YESHUA" So all of this jargon and argument that the name is not the same is really skirting the issue. As far as the name Immanuel goes, Yes this is one of the many names given to the Messiah spoken of by Isaiah the prophet. Isaiah 9:6 reads For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: And HIS NAME shall be called Wonderful,Counsellor, the Mighty God, the everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace. Of the increase of His government there shall be no end, upon the throne of David and upon His kingdom to order it and establish it with judgment and justice forever and ever." In His days Yeshua was seen as and called Immanuel at times, but he was given the birth name of Yeshua meaning Savior, because he was predestined and procreated to SAVE men enslaved by the fallen archangels who hold planet earth captive under their mentality, it is these fallen angels who are generating the discord and hate among mankind and Yeshua was created in order to defeat these black magic powers. that is why there is no SALVATION nor protection from these black forces except through the blood of Yeshua. why? because the evil spirits will not listen to anyone else except him who legally defeated them by his perfect life and death. No other spiritual teacher can offer one the protection that Yeshua offers through his blood. No other spiritual teacher confronted and overcame the fallen angels like Yeshua of Nazareth did, that is why yeshua said, "Salvation is of the Jews." Lars | ||
Hampton Hsien-Ting Chiu |
Hi Lars: Thanks for your reply, I am not an expert in Jewish Bible, I only have an English version of Bible at home. So in Isaiah 7.14, I assume it is part of Old Testament, it mentioned 'and she will certainly call his name Immanuel', is that also stated in Hebrew Bible? Or in Hebrew Bible it is using the name 'Yeshua' not 'Immanuel'? I thought Isaiah is a great prophet and Jewish guard their Bible in extreme care, so that their precious kwowledge will pass on generations, if there is a chapter in Jewish bible called 'Isaiah' and it is using the name 'Yeshua' then there will be no problem, if it mentioned 'Immanuel' will be the name given by Mary, then you stated 'Yeshua' is the name given by Mary in your post, isn't that contradicting? If in ancient time, when people translate Bible from one language to another language and the name is changed, I would be very surprised, how many other sentences would be different? That is why death sea scrolls should be the most accurate script besides the one in Vatican.(I believe Vatican still have the oldest version of Bible, probably in Hebrew or Greek, but the church will never show us that version.) But New Testament is still not ready after 60 years, while Old testament is translated in 3 years. Isn't that strange? BTW, I really appreciate your answer since I have several question since I studied the English version of Bible. Peace. Hampton Chiu | ||
James the truthseeker |
Greetings, If I recall correctly, Immanuel was called by many different names in many different countries. I'll see if I can remember them all. Jmmanuel- Israel Yesus Christos - Greek Jesus Christ - Soul Paul Issa - Middle East & India Yas Asuf - Kashmir India Yeshuah - Essenes Ashyah - Tibet Maitreya - a buddha named christ Sananda Kumara - Ayran Christ representative for Christion religion. That's as many names as I can think of at the moment and I do know there where yet other names he was called by in China, Japan and in the Americas. Peace, James TT. | ||
Hampton Hsien-Ting Chiu |
Hi JTT: I agree that Immanuel can be called many names in different places, but my question to Lars is 'if Old testament recorded Immanuel is the name will be called by his mother, why Lars says "Yeshua" is the name given when he is born? and why in New Testament call the same person Jesus Christ without even naming Immanuel?' That is why Mr. Meier strongly denies there is ever existence of a person called 'Jesus Christ', but he can not deny Immanuel's teaching, if we use the name quoted by Isaiah in Old testament. As I said, Old testament is more reliable than the New Testament, if Immanuel's name all been switched to Jesus Christ, can you imagine how many other sentences been re-worded? I would guess the whole script has been re-worked to match Church's interest. Also Lars, if you think New Testament is also accurate, maybe you are kind enough to explain to me why 'Jesus Christ' mentioned in Matthew saying John the Baptist is Elijah? I think this was mentioned twice in Matthew, which is part of New Testament. But if you think New testament is not accurate, then please disregard this question. I really appreciate your coming answer, no matter what, because none of my religious friend can answer my question after checking with their pastors. Peace. Hampton Chiu | ||
E. Visser |
Hi all. I've seen that Christianity and Jewisme are often dealt with by Billy and the Plejarans and the outcome is mostly negative in the contact notes.(the ones I have seen) Are the Islamic and Hindoe believes treated in the same way in the contact notes? The latter two are today more responsible for the overpopulation of the planet. Regards, TerraX | ||
Hampton Hsien-Ting Chiu |
Hi I think Chinese and Indian are more responsible for overpopulation, these two countries add up to 2.2 billion people, 33% of current world population, China has slower growth rate because their one-child policy, but India population increase pretty fast. But I did not see any attack directly from Mr. Meier to Hindu and Buddism, I am not familiar with Hindo, but Buddism's reincarnation concept is pretty close to what Mr. Meier's teaching, maybe that is why Buddism is not targeted. Whether closer to Mr. Meier's teaching or not and overpopulation are two separated event, I believe Mr. Meier criticize Christian and Jewish religion because they are spreading false teaching and enslaving poeple, not because overpopulation, which is another topic. Peace. Hampton Chiu | ||
Lars |
HI Hampton, As I explained in earlier post, the names Immanuel,Yeshua and Jesus all were applied to the baby born in Judea. As I showed from Isaiah.9:6 the name Immanuel is a special name and title that the Messiah would alsobe called in addition to the other names listed in that verse . so from this one can deduce that the Messiah has many names that all apply to him and he was called. But according to the nature of the Mission of the Messiah mentioned in Isaiah.53: he was given the hebrew name of YESHUA by the archangel Gabriel because his Mission was to bear and SAVE people from their sins. This is something Billy and the TJ deny and cannot even comment upon to account for the predictions of Isaiah that say the Messiah is a Savior. 2ND: the reason Yeshua say that John the Baptist was Elijah was because John the baptist was in a past life that prophet Elijah. and he reincarnated again as John the baptist to fulfill the great plan. Thus true christianity knows Jesus taught about reincarnation ,but not so fully because people of his culture were not so comprehending of it. nevertheless Jesus taught it when he said that John was Elijah come again. Hope this satisfies you. Regards, Lars | ||
Hampton Hsien-Ting Chiu |
Hi Lars: I agree with you on the 2nd question I raised, that is Immanuel mentioned about reincarnation idea in Matthew twice. But I checked Isaiah.53, there is no name 'Yeshua' mentioned directly, I think you are implying the name 'Yeshua' here, can you quote the exact name from Old Testament like I did in Isaiah 7.14? When I read Bible, I will try not to expanding the explanation, quoting the exact word would be the most accurate way to read it, if 'Immanuel' is directly recorded in Bible, it is more credible, is 'Yeshua' can be directly quoted from English Bible or Jewish Bible? I still believe Immanuel is the right name for the baby, it is directly quoted in Isaiah, unless it is quoted in Bible, all other names are either wrong or fake. Peace. Hampton Chiu | ||
Norm |
Lars, Have you read all the German material? Have you ever though Savior ment from false teachings? Its a shame you are calling Billy, Jmmanuel or Judas a lier for stating that John was Elisha not Elijah. You seem to want to believe the earlier mistake in the TJ about John, because you planned your beliefs that way, now that its corrected you refuse to believe it. Isaiah 7.14 "Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Imman'u-el." | ||
Linda |
Hi Norm, Lars, and all, I think you are in agreement that the child born of Mary was prophesied in Isaiah as "Immanuel." Am I reading you correctly? When he was born, however, and lived his life, he became referred to by different names, which should not be too difficult to accept. What's more at issue, I think, is the concept of Jesus or Immanuel "surviving the cross," the crucifixion. "Jesus" or "Immanuel" each disappeared from his tomb, apparently in a reincarnated state. Christianity perceives this event as the "risen Lord, the holy ghost" which, I believe, is another way of discussing life after life, or reincarnation. That is, there is no such thing as death. The TJ, on the other hand, perceives this "reincarnation" as a healing of wounds that enabled Immanuel to continue and spread his life work and his teachings to many lands and peoples. I don't have difficulty believing either account. Sincerely, Linda | ||
George Madeyski |
Hi ALL, Lately I’m running into a lot of the ‘HARI KRSNA’ people who want to make me sing a lot of ‘HARI HARI RAMA’ stuff. They invaded our small esoteric discussion group and seem quite sure of themselves. I need some information on subject of the origin of this religion - like who is Krishna/Krsna, Hindu gods, Vishnu, Shiva, Brahma? What is their galactic place of origin? What humanoid civilization is it? Is it a part of the Lirian Nokodemion lineage or totally separate? Does Billy have any information from Pleiarians about it? I did the search but I only found unanswered question about this? Regards George | ||
Jean Pierre Lagasse |
Did not the old prophets (and Cayce) state that the messenger of this age, (whatever you wish to call him) would reveal truth (etc.)? Billy's role then, (through "his info") is to correct (& add to) the conceptual errors of the past. It is no surprise to me that there are lots of corrections!! If the "old writings" are all correct, then why did they forecast that corrections would be made in our times??? The implication is: Lots of "old Biblical concepts" are no longer useful to us. Just a thought... JP | ||
Hampton Hsien-Ting Chiu |
Hi Linda, JP and all: I think to find out the real name for Immanuel/'Jesus Christ' is very important. For Linda and JP, I can understand your logic behind your post, but for most of the religious people, our thought would be regarded anti-Christ. I want to use an excerpt from my Bible regarding how the ancient people translate the book. "Translating the Holy Scriptures means rendering into another language the thoughts and saying of Jehovah God, the heavenly Author of this sacred library of 66 books that holy men of long ago were inspired to write down for our benefit today." I would say it is deadly serious if you translate the Bible wrong, but when I look at Old Testament and New Testament, there are so many difference, God in Old Testament is much less merciful, will get rid of its own creation/(people) without blinking an eye, will order Jewish people to sacrafice animals and worship Ark, and said 'The maiden herself will actually become pregnant, and she is giving birth to a son, and she will call his name Immanuel'. All these God's words or orders changed in few thousands years, suddenly God sent his son called 'Jesus Christ', sorry no Immanuel, to this world and no worship of any idol is needed. And not even one city is destroyed by God in New Testament, even when Jewish people were driven out of their Holy Land. If any 'God' can change his/her mind that fast, hey, I am not sure if this 'God' will not change his/her mind again in another few thousand years, or ARE THEY DIFFERENT GODS IN NEW AND OLD TESTAMENT? Of course from Mr. Meier's teaching we know those two 'gods' are different, but if you ask 100 Christian/Catholic people outside of FIGU, 99% of those people will tell you there is only one god. When there are so many people believe in every word the Bible recorded, and I still can not figure out is Immanuel or Jesus Christ the correct name, and further more, people are quoting other names not even recorded in Bible, like Lars, quoting 'Yeshua' as the birth name of the baby, I am really confused. If the name of the person is recorded differently, how about the contents, are they translated correctly? If at that time, those people have problem translate the name correctly, how can we expect those people translate the whole book correctly? That is why in the dead sea scrolls, scholars found out there is a temple of light, and there is a temple of darkness, some scholars think the temple of darkness is talking about 'Jesus Christ'. But throughout the original dead sea scroll, not even once 'Jesus Christ' is mentioned. Mr. Meier's teaching explains all my questions, while I tried many times to ask my religious friends, only very few would admit that Matthew is talking about reincarnation, and no one ever give me a good explanation about Immanuel vs. Jesus Christ. Peace. Hampton Chiu | ||
Savio |
Hi Hampton Very well put! I am with you | ||
Linda |
Hampton, Now, I wish I was still a seminary student and able to put my hands on all kinds of research tools. But those days were long ago. Perhaps we should get Jim Deardorff in on this discussion since he is a credible biblical scholar. You raise some really good questions. To clarify some of your confusion, when Lars calls the infant son born of Mary "Yeshua," he is using the Hebrew word for Jesus. Same name, different language, is all, as for example, "James" in English would be "Juan" in Spanish. Same idea. How the name "Immanuel" became "Jesus" I also cannot truthfully answer at this time except by referring to scripture itself. In re-reading Matthew from my small pocket book edition of the New Testament, "Jesus" may not only mean Messiah, anointed one, the expected king and deliverer of the Jews, but "savior" as well. Joseph is told "by an angel in a dream" that "she (Mary)shalt bring forth a son and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins." (The added name of "Christ" is, literally, anointed one, divinely chosen.) The writer of Matthew continues to say that all this is done to fulfill "what was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us." If I were doing exegetical work, I would start with a word or name search for the Hebrew meaning of "Yeshua" that goes back 2000 years. Otherwise, I think the concept of Immanuel as Jesus simply refers to the long-awaited Messiah who also "saves his people from their sins." My personal feeling is that this "saving" arises with the New Testament concept of "forgiveness." That brings me to your next question as to whether or not there are different gods in the old and the new testaments? The answer is yes, there are, and the basis for the "old law" and the "new law." Yaweh, as you point out is often punitive and merciless, and an abiding law was "an eye for an eye; a tooth for a tooth." In contrast, Jesus is essentially the teacher of and model of love and forgiveness. (Although, I was always partial to the story of this historical figure furiously throwing over the tables of the money changers. He was capable of righteous anger!) It was Moses who fathered the concept of "monotheism," i.e. "one god," as prior to him people still believed in several gods. But, again, the Old Testament's understanding of Yaweh or Jehovah, is different from the New Testament's understanding of God in Jesus Christ. Then you raise questions about the authenticity of translations, and surely there have been biblical translation errors or misunderstandings just as we have recently seen with certain TJ passages and Billy's contact notes. As an interesting aside, I would like to note that there was a documentary done on "Who Was Moses?" that aired on the Discovery channel the other evening. It basically had to do with archaeological studies and findings that seem to support the authenticity of the writer of Exodus. I don't know if I clarified anything for you, Hampton, but I've certainly been challenged to do so as best I can. In the meantime, you might consider e-mailing Jim Deardorff and get his input here. I would find what he has to say credible and probably important. Very sincerely, Linda | ||
Linda |
Hampton, Yikes! I just found a glaring error in my post. When I said "James" in English would be the same as "Juan" in Spanish, I don't know what I was thinking. I meant that "John" would be that same as "Juan." Good grief, pardon me! As long as I'm back, I'll add something else pertaining to translation errors. In the Discovery Channel's episode about Moses, the parting of the Red Sea was discussed. Evidently what was meant was the "Sea of Reeds" not the "Red Sea," but somehow we have been stuck with that mistranslation and misunderstanding. It was stated that it would be a physical impossiblity for the water of the Red Sea to part since it is very deep. But the Sea of Reeds has shallow waters, partable by the action of a tidal wave and its subsequent ebbing, evidently caused by a volcanic eruption on a nearby Greek island. I found that detail quite interesting and thought you might also. Linda | ||
Hampton Hsien-Ting Chiu |
Hi Linda and all: My question regarding the name Immanuel/'Jesus Christ' remain as "if Immanuel = 'Jesus Christ', why Old Testament still use Immanuel twice in Isaiah(7.14 and 8.8), which is a direct quote from Jehovah?" It would settle my question if Jewish Old Testament recorded Isaiah 7.14 using 'Yeshua' and not 'Immanuel', then I would agree with you this is a translation problem, but if Jewish Old Testament recorded the name 'Immanuel' in their Isaiah 7.14, then I would say there are more problems in the New Testament, because it has been re-written. I never read Jewish Bible, but I would assume no one dare to change any word from Jahovah(God), and the name is 'Immanuel' in Jewish Bible Isaiah 7.14. Common sense and Logic are two principles I used while reading Bible. If God is so great, create the universe and all the living things, how come his/her rules changed so much in few thousand years, does that imply the rules again been changed since Immanuel passed away? We know Creation law evolve, but extremely slow, I would say it is unlikely that Creation Law will change that much in few thousand years, especially the way treating people, so you are not very lucky if you were born when God is not mercifule? Imagine just after Roman soldier 'kill' Immanuel, how would they deal with people spreading teaching from Immanuel? The answer should be pretty clear, and that may be the reason the name in the New Testament been switched. If Roman soldier caught you spreading teaching of Immanuel, there would be another cross waiting for you, but if you spread the word from 'Jesus Christ', well, never heard of this person, it is ok. Of course Roman Empire later executed numerous of Christian people, but that is another issue. As I said, Old Testament is more accurate then New Testament, and that I think is proven by the translation of Dead Sea Scrolls. And that is why I believe Immanuel in Old Testament is correct and all of the New Testament has been re-written. Peace. Hampton | ||
James the truthseeker |
Greetings everyone, According to the Essenes, they to have records of Soul-Paul as the founder of Christianity, and they say that, Jesus Christ means Ye-suse Christos in Greek which actually means "anointed son of Zues". Concerning the anointed, I've always wondered what the real purpose of "baptism" was with Jmmanuel himself when Gabriel came down and picked him up in a UFO afterwords. The beamship in many ways has become the symbol of the dove of which the rewritten bible portrays it to be. Yet why would Jmmanuel the prophet need to be anointed with water in a baptism? About the best I've heared or read, is that the name "Christ" actually means the anointed energy and/or spirit of creation, but I'm also sure there are many other definitions for the name Christ or Christos. Christ is supposidly also a title of someone anointed with this psychic force of creation or at least has been redefined as such. Who would "John the Baptist" be reincarnated as at this time? Perhaps the second Prophet, who ever that may be. Though the second prophet may have declined to being a Prophet at this time, perhaps he will make a reappearence if the world situations need him as a last option. The Essenes also believe that Jmmanuel allowed himself to be crucified to end the Jewish tradition of animal sacrifices, and to thus become raw vegetarian. Peace, James TT | ||
Linda |
Hello Hampton and James, I've spent some more time looking into the "Immanuel=Jesus" question and have found the information on Jim Deardorff's website very illuminating, as he deals quite specifically with this very issue. Hampton, I strongly urge you to check out Jim's article "Was His Name Really Jesus?" here. Here's a partial quote from there: "We may then ask why the compiler of Matthew would have inserted a verse instructing Joseph to name his stepson 'Jesus' if two verses later, he included an original passage (quoting Isaiah) saying that his name would be Immanuel. The most straightforward explanation is that this compiler was happy to see the Isaiah citation present in the source writing, which he was editing, because it supported his existing belief that Jesus was the Jewish Messiah. Hence he was no doubt delighted to allow this Messiah verse to carry over into his gospel. And to certify that Jesus' name had been 'Jesus,' he added verses to that effect." You will also note that Jim references other writings suggesting that Jesus' "true name" (i.e. Immanuel) could not be revealed until a later that time. Sincerely, Linda | ||
Marc Juliano |
Hi Linda, Good point. I think anyone seeking answers to the Jesus-Jmmanuel question and related questions should read Jim's site. I think that way, the wheel of thought might not be reinvented as frequently. Thanks for bringing this up! Regards, Marc | ||
Hampton Hsien-Ting Chiu |
Hi Linda, Marc, Lars and all: Linda, thank you very much for the information. It is very helpful. Mr. James Deardorff's ariticle is excellent, which is based on TJ, the accurate translation of Immanuel teaching, but how many people believe in TJ is the true Bible today? I totally agree that Paul(Saul) changed the name of his spiritual teacher from Immanuel to Jesus(Jesus Christ), maybe he has a fantacy of Messiah, which I think Immanuel probably will disagree with Saul on this. If everyone is son of God, why need Messiah? Lars, do you believe that Paul/Saul re-write the Immanuel's teaching and change the name? Do you think the current version of Bible reflect true teaching from Immanuel? I am very curious about your opinion. Peace. Hampton Chiu | ||
Edward |
Hi Lars and All, Yes, a very good and Healthy Discussion you have going! Well, if the information Andrew(previous Moderator) posted once on this board...I think around the beginning of 2001(2000?)...he explained that "Jesus Christ" when Decoded was..something like: "The One that Drinks and Baths(enoitment) in Blood of Young Virgins and Babys." And that any Church-Mass...Utilzing the name of Jesus Christ would be a "Black/Dark-Mass"..and Not a White/Light-Mass. Attracting Negative Vibrations. Without the people knowing. If this is Valide...we Surley have something to Think about! And I would surely Not be surprised it being as Andrew mentions. I do not think he posted it just for the Fun of it. (I can not find it in the Board Key-search..for pasted postings..alas?) So Lars...this would indeed be something very Different than your Translation/Interpretation of the name Jesus Christ. Edward. | ||
Lars |
Hi Hampton, I think the name was never changed, whether it is in hebrew ,greek or latin, I believe the NT is inspired and was also not falsified, because if it were? it's teachings and prophecies could not be reliable, but the NT's teachings have demonstrated there is a power there that changes and strengthens people lives , and this is what is important. Every true disciple knows that the angel Gabriel is not some Et man from the Pleiades as the TJ would have one believe, But Gabriel is a holy archangel from the spirit spheres, this angel has been around thousands of years gaurding and delievering messages to the Jewish people, and when he visited Mary he said," she would concieve a son and call his name YESHUA, because he shall SAVE His people from their sins." Matt.1:20-23 now the name Jesus is only the greek equivalent of the name "Yeshua" it means the same thing Savior-salvation. Immanuel is more a title of the son born of Mary it tell us that he is God with us",the mighty God,, the eternal Father the prince of peace, as Isaiah.9:6-7 says. The writings of Isaiah are certain and also have never been falsified, the prophecies have been and will all be fulfilled respecting the Messiah and what'ever outside party tampers with them or denies their importance will pay a penalty. Yes I think the current Bible's version reflects the true teachings of Immanuel-Jesus. But I think also that there are many sayings of the Master that infer the greater and lesser mysteries such as reincarnation, karma, and God realization. these also were taught and were never meant to become invented into a religious format as religious people have invented obscure religious doctrines around the original teachings of Jesus. Yeshua said," that He came to give life more abundantly, and that out of a man's belly shall flow rivers of living water, and that God is a spirit, and should be worshipped in spirit and truth." These are some of the more esoteric teachings of the Savior. Again i believe the true sayings of the Master are in the Bible and have never neen falsified, but people have misinterpreted the teachings in various ways. Regards, Lars | ||
Linda |
Hello Hampton, Edward, and Lars, Just a few remarks. Hampton, I'd like to address two of your questions: 1)How many people believe in the TJ as the true Bible today? and 2) If everyone is the son (or daughter?) of God, why need a Messiah? First, I think very few people, probably a "mere grain of sand" believe in the TJ as the true teachings of Jmmanuel. It was only just discovered in 1963 and the first edition (German only) didn't come out until 1978. In other words, there's been little exposure compared to the many centuries that the Bible's New and Old Testaments have been in circulation in many different languages throughout the entire world. And aside from its newness, its teachings are difficult for many people to accept, as they are perceived to be theological "heresies." Secondly, while I personally believe we are all sons and daughters of God, or Creation, however you wish to call it, Judeo-Christian theology is rooted in thousands of years of prophetic tradition and a sacred covenant with Yaweh. Not only was a promised land (Israel) a part of that relationship, but also a "Messiah" was promised to the Jews through the prophets such as Isaiah and John the Baptist,someone who was not an ordinary human at all, but rather a spiritually divine master, "the prince of peace." Generation after generation awaited the fulfillment of these prophecies. To quote Jim Deardorff, ". . . a Jewish messiah was still expected to occur as of two millenia ago on the basis of such prophecies, and is still expected within some sections of Judaism today." Edward, I think I recall the former moderator saying something to the effect that the name Jesus Christ "when decoded" meant something like "he that drinks and bathes in the blood of young virgins and babies." I also recall recoiling and shaking my head to a resounding "Good Grief!" in my mind. Where and how Andrew came up with that, "Creation only knows." It would have been helpful if he had cited some source at that time. My understanding is that Judaism proceeded with pagan roots, but that Hebrew names were selected very carefully, almost sacredly. I truly do not think that the name has any connection with satanic rituals or rites. You're welcome to prove me wrong. Lars, personally I don't know how Mary was inseminated. I don't know if she became pregnant with Joseph, the archangel Gabriel, or a Plejaren ET. I'm not sure that it really matters to me. What I do know with relative accurate historicity, is that she gave birth to an extraordinary infant son, an extraordinary young child, an extraordinary man whose teachings have been an inspiration for me. I agree that prophecies have been and will be fulfilled. Once again, the prophetic tradition is central to Judeo-Christian theology, and it is central to the Billy Meier case. "I tell you this now, so that when it happens you will believe" is a quote from the gospel of John. From my point of view, that statement applies to Jesus or Jmmanuel or Billy equally. This argument is what Michael Horn keeps calling "the higher standard of proof." The more prophetically accurate, the more believable the source. Thanks for listening, Linda | ||
Lars |
Hi Linda, what an excellent post you just gave! You stated yourself and the issues so orderly, respectfully and fine... You deserve a big A+ for excellence! I bless you in the NAME of "Yahweh Elohim of Zabaoth" Peace be with you, Lars | ||
Hampton Hsien-Ting Chiu |
Hi Linda and Lars: I really appreciate your opinion expressed very clearly here on this forum, this make me understand why even in 2791 A.D.(my personal calculation), after a new religion founder will abolish the Christian Sunday, Islamic Friday and Jewish Sabbath, in order to set up a new holiday regulation(according to contact note 251), there will be religion exist on this planet, even we are able to travel above light speed and contact other space traveling race, still some of us will believe in religion. Through the name of religion, billions of people will die, because the third world war probably is related to religion disputes. Mr. Meier strongly deny there is ever a person existed called Jesus Christ, because he knew this for sure himself, and in Old Testament, Jehoveh never mentioned the name 'Jesus Christ', in Dead Sea Scroll, Paul's name is mentioned, also mentioned is 'Master', but not 'Jesus Christ', not even 'Immanuel', thus we know Dead Sea Scroll is written after Paul's teaching, and we can infer Immanuel lived before the the Scrolls were written. If Immanuel is 'Jesus Christ', why this name never appear in any document before? Why Jehovah use 'Immanuel' to describe the son he will send to save the human race in Isaiah 7.14 and 8.8, why not just call the baby 'Jesus Christ'? And if 'Jesus Christ' is the name given at birth, where is 'Immanuel' come from? Just to fulfill the prophecy? At least for this time, I believe in Jehovah that he was quoting the right name, Immanuel, anything else is translation error or human error. I think a lot of people are waiting for Messiah, is Jesus Christ Messiah? Is Immanuel Messiah? Is Mr. Meier Messiah? Though I never meet Mr. Meier, but I am 99% confident that the answer from Mr. Meier will be 'NO'. So Linda and Lars, I think both of you do not belive TJ is the true teaching of Immanuel, that is why you are quoting Jesus Christ, because in TJ, there should never mention 'Jesus Christ' like Old Testament and Dead Sea Scroll. Imagine a Jewish novel, translated to Greek and then Latin, and the name of the major character was changed every time the book was translated, can you imagine what happen to the content after all those translation? I cordially want to thank Creation, or whoever decide where I will incarnate, to put me in a non-religious family in this incarnation, with no original sin, so I can be a ture free man spiritually, and again I appreciate Lars and Linda's true opinion from their hearts, that makes me realize how difficult is Mr. Meier's task, and how heavy the burden he carries as a new age prophet. I almost can hear Jehovah saying 'I would have said 'Jesus Christ' if that is the name of my son I am sending to save all the people on your planet, but I sent Immanuel, as I said in Isaiah....' Peace. Hampton Chiu | ||
James the truthseeker |
The best I can ask is, What could be so difficult about the TJ in itself along with the Plejaran contacts of Billy? If these things ready did happen, then they did and that's all there is to it. Somehow I just KNOW that they did happen and that the TJ is a REAL book! I've read the Bible through once and thus could see that the book itself was very poorly written for a book that is said to be inspired by God. Also it was a disappointment to learn that nothing in the Bible was written by the hands of Jesus and after reading the NT, the gospels actually have some contradictions to each other in their story lines. Perhaps, I thought, God has dyslexia like me in his own wording. Who is God's wife I wondered if we are all his children? Perhaps it's mother nature, I thought. Lars, Unless you are refering to Christions in general, how can you say that,"Every true disciple knows that the angel Gabriel is not some ET man from the Pleiades", when every true disciple doesn't even know what a true angle is as far as what they may want to imagine for themselves?, and how could Gabriel be around for thousands of years gaurding and delievering messages to the Jewish people when the Muslims make it quite clear that Gabriel delieverd messages to their prophet which became known as the Koran. For those who truely believe this, then they just got a failing grade. For a book that is supposedly from God as a word of truth, The Bible does cause alot of disagreement within the very strongest of all Christion believers and that of many more of its followers. If the TJ is not good enough for People then I would suggest they don't read it and study the other wholy books from all the other religions in the world instead. The TJ is a very controversial book and that's a good thing because this will attract much attention to it so that at least people will be able to read the truth even if they don't believe it. Peace, James the truthseeker | ||
Norm |
This needs to be cleared up! Message from Pleiades Volume 2 Page 74. Semjase- "This is the prophesied anti-time or the anti-Christ time, in which the Earth human will release himself from the religious delusion and turn himself toward the truth again." Message from the Pleiades Volume 2. Page 163. Semjase- "The value and worth of the number 666 concerns, in German language terms, the matters of God Church, Christ and Jesus. Jesus is the incorrect named for Jmmanuel, who already in his lifetime was against this nomination, because he knew the future, and knew what would be made of him. Jesus is the value of the anti-logos, which the Christian church altered to anti-Christ, for which as well the true lessons of Jmmanuel became changed until undiscernible. These matters were already known by the cabalists for around two thousand years, which is why they always try to falsify the values of the numbers, as I already explained. The animal (The Beast) is only to be seen as a symbol, because in truth it concerns a worldwide organization with a three-part name. This organization is embodied by the church and its adherents..." | ||
Hampton Hsien-Ting Chiu |
Hi All: For your information, I got a 'D' in my religious class in the Christian University in Taiwan, I am not sure if it is because the teacher(pastor) can not answer my questions? Peace. Hampton Chiu | ||
Norm |
Linda, Phil McAiney Sums it up best, in his past post on the name Jesus Christ. "The desire to bring the teachings to as many people as possible led Saul (St. Paul) and others to try to make the teachings attractive to various ethnic groups to the extent these would adopt them. To interest the minds of the Greeks, the word "Christus" was added to the already-invented cabbalistic word of "Jesus" to make a completely new name of someone who already had been given at birth an ancient and honourable name - that of "Jmmanuel", which in the old Lyrian meant, "He who has god-like wisdom". One of the most repulsive occult practises of barbaric pagans at that time in Greece was the murdering of children and virgins in secret ceremonies. The blood of these "sacrificial lambs" was drained into "sacred vessels" of large clay jars. This fluid was later smeared on to the bodies of the participants in this disgusting ritual. Those receiving the marks of this "ointment" on their faces and skin were given the title "The Anointed One" or "Christus" in Greek, translated as "Christ" in English. Even today, Roman Catholics in their Mass "celebrate" by taking the host which, after the priest blesses it, is supposed to be the physical body and blood of Christ. How abhorrent that 2,000 years later this "cult of Saul" still practises symbolic cannibalism every Sunday in remembrance of the disgusting and beast-like custom long ago of physically drinking and smearing an innocent and just murdered person's blood on them." | ||
Lars |
Hi JTTS, You mentioned in response to my statement that, "Every true disciple knows that the angel Gabriel is not some ET man from the Pleiades", You replied: "When every true disciple does'nt even know what a true angel is as far as what they may want to imagine for themselves."? OK what is your definitionof an angel? The Bible is a record of contacts with angels, Angels who made predictions that have always come true. As far the angel Gabriel, Gabriel has been around since Enoch, then around 550 BC Gabriel made extensive contact with the prophet Daniel. then later he announced the coming of the Messiah who would be called Yeshua, to fulfill the prophecy of Isaiah.53: to make atonement through his sufferrings to take away our sins.You cannot just dismiss these holy prophecies from Daniel and Isaiah, and then pick and choose a few verses there from to validate another gospel, that is theft and falsification point blank. Yes even 700 years later gabriel appeared again and contacted Mohammed a descendent of Abraham through his son Ishmael to fulfill another prophecy that a through Ishmael's lineage would come a great nation. The Koran confirms the Bible and explains that angels are divine beings (spirits) sent from GOD to ward off evil and protect the believers from the unbelievers. To say that this Gabriel was only an ET man from the Pleiades like the TJ says, is wresting the scriptures from their intended meaning, it is falsification. It also completely confuses and denies the words of Gabriel to Daniel in the book of the prophet Daniel. Who'ever the Gabriel is in the TJ is not the same Gabriel of Daniel, the gospels and the holy Koran. Think about it... Regards, Lars | ||
James the truthseeker |
Greetings Lars, By now you should know that many ancient texts along with the writings of Edgar Cayce & Zecheriah Zitchin, discribes the angels as "Sons of GOD" not all that much different then the TJ calling them the "Celestial Sons". It's becoming quite evedent that ETs have being visiting Earth Humanity sense very ancient times according to ancient Sumerian records etc. I'm sure you know what a mortal is and what an immortal is. Also I'm sure that the name Gabriel was a common name among the angels as would other names be, so I don't understand why you would assume Gabriel from much earlier times to be the same Gabriel who was in contact with Jmmanuel, then again you would assume Gabriel to be a spirit, as the reality of him being an "Original non-mortal ET human being" seems just alittle to much for your understanding or even comprehension. Perhaps not all that much different then those who wrote the book of Daniel & Isaiah in the first place. Yes Gabriel was a spirit all right, as he was a spirit incarnated in a human ET body known as Gabriel. Think about the overall picture, James the truthseeker. | ||
Linda |
Greetings all, I would like to make a suggestion that may give us all some common ground for discussion. Borrowing from Jim Deardorff's scholarship again, I'd like to direct you to a Brief Summary of Jmmanuel's Basic Teachings. You will note that some entries have an asterisk beside them, indicating that the teaching made it into the Gospel of Matthew virtually unchanged. Hampton, when I was quoting from the Gospel of John, it was not to imply that I did not believe in the TJ teachings. I was merely referencing what Michael Horn calls "the higher standard of proof." I'd like to add that on a very personal level, I have some appreciation of Billy's task. In the early 1980's I presented his case through public lectures and seminars and soon became subjected to a period of terrorization that lasted for about two years. Norm, it is not just Catholics that observe the ritual of communion. Many Christian denominations observe this rite, which stems from Jesus' last meal with his disciples, historically known as "The Last Supper." I have never understood it to be a canabalistic practice, but rather a sacred remembrance of him. My sincere regards to all, Linda | ||
Lars |
Hi James, I have researched these ancient texts, Summerian ,Zecahriah Sitchin etc. and I find alot of this is valid. When I speak in defense of the bibilical scripts about Archangels, the Messiah and his atonement Iam not by this denying the reality of the Plejaren existence. I just question and doubt a portion of what they have said about the Bible and the Master from Nazareth. I cannot see how they can get around or evade all of the multiple prophecies contingent upon the Messiah , Redeemer,and King spoken of by Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Daniel. to me the Plejarens have not supplied and given enough sufficient data\evidence which refutes or explains why all of the rest of Isaiah's predictions about the Messiah are falsified heresies.and who may have inspired those heresies, If Isaiah was under the contact of a JHWH from Erra back then and not the God of hosts who is the eternal Creator, how then could Isaiah come up with all of these heretical predctions about the Messiah ,his atonement, death and ressurection and about the nation of Israel being saved and exalted? Thus in my estimation they have not justified their argument according to the principles of logic. Regards, Lars | ||
James the truthseeker |
Greetings Lars, Good point. As it is possible that the OT of the Bible was rewitten in much the same way as the NT probably by the same people at the same time, it would be interesting to take note if this same information is also written in much the same way in the "Dead Sea Scrolls" as we would find written today about Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Daniel. If this proves to be the case then I think every human being involved with FIGU, every person on this forum and thus including Billy himself, will be quite amazed at your finding, if not puzzled. I for one would be quite surprised. I don't know enough here to give you an answer, but just perhaps someone here on this forum can give us some info regarding this and the Dead Sea Scrolls. Unfortunately the Dead Sea Scrolls are or were not accessible by everyone. One can only assume here why this was so. Peace, James the truthseeker | ||
Michael |
I would like to once again ask people to consider these facts: The God of the OT commanded the deaths of from 10.5 to 15 MILLION people, men, women, children, infants...all to be slain without mercy at the hands of the Israelites. This same God told the Israelites to take the land, property and possessions of these people and to take any remaining women (those who had not lain with men) as their property as well, to be prostitutes in effect. By so commanding he ordered the Israelites, who were apparently only too happy to comply, to break Commandments against murder (killing of innocents), theft (including stealing the virtue of the women), coveting of one's neighbor's property and worshipping any God other than the one whose Commandments the Israelites would be violating by doing what they did. THINK about it! Now, does anyone REALLY believe the fairy tale of the presumed creator of all that exists coming down to Earth, a cosmic speck of lint of infinitely small significance in the overall picture, just so that he could find a rag-tag group of wandering nomads and convince them that, being the crowning glory of creation themselves, they should slay their way into possession of their neighbors lands because, after all, they were the "chosen people"? Do any of the people that choose to believe that this God was in any way a spirtiual "diety" (rather than a genocidal, terroristic baby-killing maniac) have any rational, logical way of explaining how they've bought into their belief in this God? And, since this God is widely accepted as the God of the NT, how do they reconcile all the angel, mystical, savior, stuff with the fact that this God was willing to have his only son killed to make a point that has obviously been proved nonsensical by virtue of history itself. And, while we're at it, let's remember that this is the same God who put Abraham to a "test", or so OT believers would have us believe. The fact that no mention is made of this being the most monumental example of child abuse (terrifying Isaac) never seems to get mentioned. And, since this is truly the fact as to the claiming of the land by the Israelites, does anyone believe that it is likely (in this universe of cause and effect, of consequences for actions) that the state of Israel is "chosen" to reign supreme, or is it perhaps more likely that what Jmmanuel is quoted as saying in the TJ regarding the destruction of Jerusalem and the karmic comeuppance of the Israelites of our time is accurate? So, while the OT and NT are based in blood-letting, murder, infanticde, genocide, theft, etc. why don't those who need religion check out the basics of Buddhism, a fairly "clean" religion that somehow managed to get along without saviors, demands for blood, sacrifices, etc. As a matter of fact, Buddhists have a pretty good record of not starting wars with anyone. So just what is it that gnaws away at the thinking processes of people, what kind of indoctrination that compels them to need such bloody Gods, saviors and the like as are the foundation of Judeo-Christianity? Why do they embrace such things in favor of logic, peacefulness and the pursuit of fearless spiritual understanding? Michael | ||
Linda |
Michael, Omigosh! Pretty heavy stuff, your post is. May I suggest here that the God of the Old Testament you refer to is not the God of the New Testament, especially when you say, "And since this God is widely accepted as the God of the NT . . ." To the contrary, my understanding of Judeo-Christian theology is there is a marked difference between Yaweh and the New Testament understanding of "God." I can't think of New Testament passages that are as blood-thirsty as the Old Testament citations you give. I'm delighted that you have jumped into a "spiritual" discussion, not that it's out of character for you do to so, but I've grown accustomed to knowing you as someone who deals only with scientifically verifiable facts. If you have a spiritual answer to our earth-human dilemma, please do share! Linda | ||
James the truthseeker |
Greetings Michael, Lars and everyone, If I recall correctly, the exact number of Palestinians killed at the Bloody hands of Jehovah and his Jews was up to 11.5 million People. Now were the prophets of Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Daniel under the influence of this blood thirsty God? I really do not know other then I seem to recall that Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Daniel may have being under the influence of a much more peacfull God long after Jehovah's time in an attempt to set things straight cancerning the murderous writings of Jehovah. Jmmanuel thus had much work to do because of this and the later writings of these prophets was more then likely changed for why else would the Dead Sea Scrolls be made off limits, not to mention the missing book of Enoch itself? Jehovah was an obvious racist and thus wanted the Jews to always be so which of course had its more recent consequences during the second world war, and now we're seen what the Jews are doing to the Palestinians as a result of a few suicide terrorests in Jerusalem, etc. I think its obvious that crminals are using these religions as a means to this day to justify there murderous actions and destruction of the environment and unfortunately will continue to do so. Yes Jerusalem is a holy city alright because of all the bullet holes in the city itself! Peace, James the truthseeker | ||
Edward |
Hi Linda..and All, I would not know what to add. I must say...Norn's Posting..is in Full Details.. of Phil McAiney Sums. I have read that posting when it was up. I Fully stand behind Phil McAineys Sum. As what he wrote Struck a String...so to speak...in me. I have been doing some research in the past...and it did turn out to be that there were Indeed "Black-Masses/Rituals" ...being practised in de Dungeons of Churches..in the past.(All Over Europe and England) Young Virgins and Babies were Kidnapped...and Offered. Their blood was dronk... and utilzed to bath in or Enoitment. The researchers that did this research did say the Proof they had were the Many Bones...found...the Altar... etc...and the Volk Chronicals. Which was Not always...built on fables. And as was mentioned..the Pastors/Cardinals... etc..were mostlikly... also part of this "Satanic-Movement" if I may say it this way. One very good Example of Offering would be the well Known...Jewish/Christian/Turkish Ruler we know as Graaf Dracula. His full name I can not remember now...but he was the Example for the Thriller figure...'Dracula'. He and his Lady/Madame pratised the mentioned above..and to scare away the Islam soldieres..he Spiked up over 10,000 bodies(some say even more..Men, Women..and Childeren) for 10's of miles! And he was a "Ture Christain"...as was said. You'd be Surprised...what One would fine in the Old History books of the Whole of Europe...of it's past! One has to Search it for One's self... because you will Not find it/this in a any public library(s). And what Michael and James-T-T posted..is also.. what I would Agree with. Very Wise Words..and in very good details...again. Linda...They All have spoken for me...I would say. In this subject they Do/Are on the Same State of Mind/Thinking...as I. Edward. | ||
Lars |
God is great! Allahu Akbar! | ||
George Madeyski |
How nice of you to qoute this Norm. '"The animal (The Beast) is only to be seen as a symbol, because in truth it concerns a worldwide organization with a three-part name. This organization is embodied by the church and its adherents..."' This actually gets beter then this. Organization goes also by the name of 'Brotherhood'. It really went like this. This organization created the christian church structure then put together so called 'HOLY BIBLE'(I call it 'Santa Clause Story' for the grown up kids looking for their convinient illusion instead of facing the TRUTH') and then conviniently hid themselves in the created church structure. Come on Lars knock it off - I know you're smarter then that - face the facts this is the only way to go in the long run. Regards George Regards George | ||
James the truthseeker |
To Lars, Saalome gam naan ben uurda, gan njjber asaala hesporoona! | ||
Linda |
Hello Michael, Upon re-reading my post and yours, I must say that I overlooked the obvious. Yes, "the crucifixion" of the New Testament was an unfortunate blood-thirsty event and one which Jesus or Jmmanuel foretold, another prophecy sadly fulfilled. Sincerely, Linda | ||
Norm |
Lars, Is that all you have to say? Its funny how you don't answer when your conered with facts! | ||
Lonnie Morton |
Hi Lars, I must ask you this, and please don't get the wrong impression: Why are you on this forum? If you can't answer it's OK, but it is obvious from your statements, that you have one foot in religion and one foot in the FIGU. Such an indecisive stand is an unsafe position to be in. This forum is supposed to be for discussing FIGU related information and not for preaching religious belief systems. Most of us who are here are searching for the truth and have not found it with religion. I am one of these. I was a bible student and Christian minister for 25 years and used to tell people the same things. I left because I found something better. Those religious teachings and dogma don't make any logical sense. It is so obvious it is ridiculous! Michael has explaind very well, with his posts here, and through his public lectures the INDISPUTABLE EVIDENCE of Billy's contacts. Any honest, reasoning, thinking person who has even a minute iota of common sense can see clearly the logic of the teachings which bears witness internally so that we KNOW we have the truth. To continue to promote illogical and innaccurate information when Billy has clarified everything for us is like calling Billy a liar. Some people even go so far as committing blasphemy against the spirit! As far as I am concerned, after examining the case with a clear conscience, and after meeting Billy in person and getting to know him, and seeing further evidence at the Center, there is every reason to TRUST Billy and the Plejarans, because if it wasn't for them, mankind would continue to be misled by religious leaders and their cronies, to the destruction of the entire Earth and all life. It has happened before. It reportedly has happened on other planets. In fact we are close to that now. And who is having the most say? Yes, you quessed it. Go back and reread my posts on the effects of cannibus. Regards, Lonnie | ||
Michael |
Hi Linda, It appears to me that the God of the OT and the NT are indeed (at least) two different beings. There's so much confusion, in no small part because the whole matter is illogical and confusing. I remember reading somewhere in Billy's material about the different gods of the times also. I think that the spiritual answers to our dilemmas here are simple but not easy. They have been presented by great teachers and prophets throughout the ages. And, even if we don't yet have access to all the teachings of Creation, many simple things like brotherly love, the Ten Commnadments, the Golden Rule, harmlessness, reverence for life and nature, etc. are already sufficient guidelines that, if observed, would rapidly cure many of our ills personally and globally. But the addiction to materialism, domination, power, wealth, hyper-stimulation, etc., the gods of the day, is quite widespread. An increase in the darkness before the dawn (which isn't exactly rushing on its way.) I find that it's so easy for me to bemoan the faults of the world and get depressed, indignant, etc. but I recognize that it's also very important to proceed with joy and truth and not be afraid to discard the false values and beliefs that continue to enslave humankind. And, as you have referred to my "higher standard" approach in your posts, I continue to focus on the credibility factor, i.e. the great body of accurate information published by Billy, many years in advance, that has led me to at least consider the other (spiritual) information that comes from/through him. We are at a kind of crossroads too. We seem to run the risk of having to take some of his information on "faith", as we don't yet have enough knowledge of these things and they disagree with much of established religious doctrines. But the other path on that road is the one of self-exploration, contemplation, examining and questioning within ourselves which is a kind of internalized scientific process. We can begin to test out some of the spiritual material inside ourselves and through external application whenever appropriate. We are still a bit into the "Billy said" "the Plejarans said" level of things. If we don't deify them in the process and simply examine and test the information as best we can we'll learn what is and isn't true...for ourselves. This is, to me, a different and better approach than that of religions where one is bascially told to "believe" and "have faith". We have to avoid that one! All the best, Michael | ||
Lars |
Norm , I do not consider what Michael stated as justifiable facts, but as unjust accusations that deny the Lord and his Messiah! And I already supplied evidence to demonstrate how inconsistent and insupportable is the idea that Jmmanuel ever existed, since the Plejaren Jmmanuel denies all of the prophecies attributed to him by Isaiah, Jeremiah and Daniel. Jmmanuel in the TJ even turns out to be a traitor to his own tribe of the Jews! by making such hostile insulting anti-semitic statements against his own tribe, while defending the race of the Palestians who are said by all of the prophets to be an evil and bloodthirsty people whom the Israelis shall always be victorious over.these illogical statements in itself proves the TJ is an inconsistent unreliable ,unhistoric document contrived by fools who deny and falsify the holy scriptures to their own shame. Let all the arabs and for that matter all the world together gather against Israel to try and stop them from inheriting that land over there, and see what happens next! Read Ezekiel 38: and you will see why you do not want to become an enemy of the Jews. All of these accusations against the Creator and Israel shall not stand when Messiah appears in the clouds as a flash of lightning. And the claim and idea that all of these prophets books were tampered with and falsified is pure rubbish! and only represents an attempt by an enemy to evade the Light and judgment of the living God upon the demons and all mankind. We shall see who faces the facts when the sky splits open and all the earth mourns as they see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with all the holy angels in power and great glory to utterly waste all of those seen and unseen beings who cause offenses on earth. at that time all of these issues will be fully setteled and we shall see what the facts really were. | ||
Michael |
Hi Lars, Out of respect for your deep conviction regarding the innate merciful goodness of the God of the OT, I am personally going to do my best to get somebody to remove obviously erroneous items such as: Numbers 31 17: Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him. 18: But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. Deuteronomy 7 1: "When the LORD your God brings you into the land which you are entering to take possession of it, and clears away many nations before you, the Hittites, the Gir'gashites, the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Per'izzites, the Hivites, and the Jeb'usites, seven nations greater and mightier than yourselves, 2: and when the LORD your God gives them over to you, and you defeat them; then you must utterly destroy them; you shall make no covenant with them, and show no mercy to them. Joshua 6 21: Then they utterly destroyed all in the city, both men and women, young and old, oxen, sheep, and asses, with the edge of the sword. ... Moderator: Post shortened. ... Of course, on the off chance that this really was what the God of the OT commanded, perhaps you could make up some fairy tale that would justify it. Something like, well if God says it's good then...it's good! Logic like that would probably take care of the whole matter and would probably also straighten out the thinking of all those deluded Arabs and Palestinians who, for some crazy idea, thought they were the descendants of rightful owners of the stolen lands. And maybe you're right, we just need a little Jesus in the clouds to make all that ugly history go away. By the way, isn't it funny how Billy took pictures from one of the beamships of two other ships, from above the Earth, while he was...descending from the clouds? Michael | ||
Lars |
Hi Lonnie, Iam on this Forum because I believe the Plejarens existence is real, i don't question or doubt in the least the scientific evidence given, nor do I doubt some of the spiritual teaching. It is just a small portion of what they espouse about God, the Jews and the denial of the Messiah that I seriously question and doubt, and Billy even affords me the right to question and sift everything. So when all the scriptures attest to the verity of their accuracy time and time again through many predictions esp. about the Messiah and His work, to see this denied and confused is something I cannot let pass without a challenge to prove it. And in my estimation neither the Plejarens Billy, nor Michael have supplied me with sufficient enough exegesis to demonstrate how this great falsification of the Bible took place. For one the Bible in all it's predictions is always consistent with itself and the life changing power that comes to people who trust Jesus call on his name and get baptized in the Holy Spirit and fire, and walk in the light as he is in the Light, is not religion to me but a spiritual path. there may be some people who don't know this, that a walk with Jesus is a spiritual experience that changes life, gives peace and protects from evil. Don't get me wrong I believe and value much of what the Plejarens have said, But I take what they say about Christ, the Jews and Islam with a grain of salt, there is no gaurantee that what they have said about these points is not mistaken and incorrect, esp. when there is so much internal evidence in the prophecies which is contrary to the data they announce is true about these points. Salaam, Lars | ||
Lars |
Dear Michael, I appreciate your efforts and zeal to defend what you imagine is the true truth of the sitiuation here. But Yahweh God of Israel told the Jews to drive out and destroy those nations of Canaan Duet.9:4-5 ,because they were very wicked peoples involved in all kinds of idoltry, oppression murder, rape, and homosexuality to name a few. they were lawless criminals who couldn't be taught no matter what and they would'nt change or desist from their lifestyles, So because of this Yahweh commanded the jews to slaughter them and posses their land and goods. These heathen peoples were an example of the LOST state and condition mankind was in since the fall of Adam. and their destruction by the Jews by the sword served to demonstrate that the laws of creation, ,karma, and holiness cannot be denied by a lawless, idolatrous, contentious people. And so today the ignorant, lawless, and debauched nations are readying themselves by their own pride and opression and refusal to give an ear to authority above themselves the same destruction as these ancient nations experienced. Except we repent and give an ear, forgive, and embrace wisdom we shall all likewise perish. And the state of the world proves we are in gravely serious, serious,trobule. Lars | ||
Michael |
My, my Lars, You surely don't disappoint me. You have indeed bought the whole thing, hook, line and sinker. Now sit back and ask yourself for one moment: What kind of terrible crimes were the little children and infants guilty of? Was the all-loving and merciful God so impotent that, despite doing this: 20: For it was the LORD's doing to harden their hearts that they should come against Israel in battle, in order that they should be utterly destroyed, and should receive no mercy but be exterminated, as the LORD commanded Moses. ...he couldn't have found or CREATED a spark of redeeming value in the lives of millions of innocents? That he couldn't have SOFTENED the hearts of the offenders? Or did he just really enjoy spilling blood? Is this the terrorist, infanticidal, genocidal God you really believe is the creator of all that exists, all life, all beauty, all majesty and mystery? Should we not, my friends, be grateful that good, "God-fearing" people have dragged their children to bow on bended knee while the teachings of hatred, bloodshed, barbarism, and completely inhuman brutality are bludgeoned into their poor, innocent little heads and portrayed to them as the source of salvation from their wretched sins? Well praises be, marinara, lloyd have moisture and gimmee some more of that ol' time religion! Michael | ||
Lars |
As it was written so shall it be done Heaven and earth will pass away ,but my words will not pass away." Yeshua of Nazareth Because the Master said that his words will not pass away , this means His words and gospel could have never been falsified as the Plejarens assert. Nice try ....as they say ...But no cigar! | ||
Lonnie Morton |
Lars, Why do you believe this information? And why are you posting this on the FIGU forum? Most of us are already familar with this and other religious dogma. Just LOOK for yourself around the world and SEE what the effects of this and other belief systems has done. Can you not see (with your eye of understanding) why we need something better? Please STOP trying to defend religious teachings that have different interpretations. This gets us NOWHERE! We don't need to look into the Bible to find the truth and accurate history. We can find the truth within ourselves. The writings of Billy will replace the Bible and it's many, many mistakes and falsifications. And the personal lives of those who truly live by the teachings, along with the fruitage they display, is a strong testimony in itself. Lonnie | ||
Lars |
Hi Lonnie, some of what you say may be true and I do not mean to discredit and slight all that Billy and the Plejarens say. Just a portion of it. And in the final stretch when things go down over there in Israel, and the Anti-Christ New world king appears to sign peace treaties and security then betrays those treaties and seeks to have himself worshipped in temples, then you will find that the Jmmanuel story as promoted by the Plejarens about Israel and the Messiah just was'nt true. And when Elijah and the Messiah appears and consumes the enemies of the Israeli state by terrible plagues and drives the Palestinians right out of the land and over into Jordan. You finally will realize the that Bible's writings will prevail over anything Billy or the Plejarens have ever said about these issues. Regards, Lars | ||
James the truthseeker |
Greetings Lars, The only evidence you seem to be leaning on in regards to your Bible beliefs, are these so called "Prophesies". I think you of all people should know by now that when large masses of people believe in such things, then they bring it uppon themsleves. You most of all may be contributing to these unnecessary prophesies of world destruction just by that way of thinking of yours. THAT is why these prophesies are comming true, because you and others alike are making these things happen with such illogical thinking of justifying actions. Something to ponder; Sure, some other unfriendly group of ETs will appear over Israel in their UFO ships in later times when Earth is at its worse, possibly will destroy the UN troops, appear as Jesus & Yahweh for the Christians and Jews alike, Take them all on board their UFO ships for safty thus calling it the rapture allong with telling them they're all going to the new Jerusalem. Little do they all know however, is that they'er going to be eather lost slaves or they just might end up on a KFC menu. "Kentucky Fried Christian"! By this time, its now to late for "Lars" to change his mind and thinking because some other unpleasent being is having a real picnic with him. Peace, James the truthseeker | ||
Lars |
James, The Bible's prophecies always come true, because they derive from time-travel visions and revelations from the future by the spirit of God. Indeed some prophecies are conditional, and as such these may be averted. But other prophecies are FIXED predestined to occur and these are seen by the prophets in visions from the future. As far as making these prophecies happen? , I agree that we can by our attention and desire for them to happen we can actually hasten or speed up the time so that they will occur sooner than later. If you would like to aquaint Jesus and Yahweh as being of a group of unfriendly ETs thats your perogative and belief not mine. But the Jesus I have come to know is not unfriendly nor is he a traitor, But he is everything the NT says that he is, He gaurds me ,fights for me and slays the demons who seek to accuse and destroy my life. Yes JESUS is a Savior! this is what makes Him unique over all other spiritual teachers, he is the only Master the demons will submit to and back off from, go ask a righteous Buddhist how much peace he has while almost every night he is trying to make the "hungry evil ghosts" quit bothering and harassing him. No I have no fears that Jesus and his angels are going to make me a KFC! unless of course I turn from him and stop confessing my sins. if that be the case then Jesus will make me a Kentucky burnt chicken- a coward who deserted him who deserves to be burned. Salaam, lars | ||
James the truthseeker |
You know Lars, Just "perhaps" your right as you seem to talk of Jesus as though he is your friend and you know this guy as though you actually have conversations with him. Perhaps you do and we are all unaware of this and just maybe you can introduce him to the FIGU forum and Billy himself. No kidding! Why am I now saying this? Because I think I just found your friend at: http://www.jesus.com Perhaps this is the guy you know. If so, then you might not want to tell him about ECK because Christians have told me that it's devil worship along with many other things such as Islam and the like. Perhaps this is why you would have to repent for your sins. The only sin I can think of is illogical ways of thinking in which people get hurt. Peace, James the truthseeker | ||
E. Visser |
Hi all. Normally I don't contribute to these kind of discussions because everyone has a right to believe in whatever they want.In these matters there is also little tangible evidence or facts which can be used to make a clearer asesment. From my point of view,the Creational Teachings asks for the same amount of Faith as does Religion.A person practising religion will feel it in his heart he or she is right.This mechanisme also works for someone practising the creational teachings.Both religion and creationalisme will go through extreme and sometimes low means to make their point. When I look at that I wonder what's going wrong,again.The teachings of Jesus Christ / Immanuel are still heavily debated.The teachings of Mohammed are still heavily debated.And yes,the teachings of Billy&the Plejarans are and will be heavily debated.These 3 teachings (not to mention the others in the world) will clash further as they do allready. In this dynamic with all the different influences and personal convictions perhaps it might be best to stay 'unpolarised'.I'm not saying be an atheist but to take a firm stand in a certain direction will only make you clash with someone from an another direction.I'm suggesting,see how the mechanisme works and try to rise above it. Regards, TerraX | ||
Brock Bradford |
If we take step back and find ourselves floating in deep space…. All around as far as the eye and telescope may see are galaxies…. Swirling masses of star clusters, containing billions of stars. If we be so fortunate to have the capacity to think clearly… We may try to apply the Earthly religious teaching to this greater picture and come up with many internal error messages. The model as presented by FIGU of Creation, existence and life beyond this planet certainly deserves to be looked into as a concept beyond the flat world theory. | ||
Michael |
I think that this section on relgion and religious beliefs can prove to be valuable for a number of reasons. We can look at how religious beliefs demand the suspension of logic, reason and common sense, instead relying on the demand that one believes something even, or especially, when it violates their rational thinking abilities. We can see how the fact that someone, somewhere and at sometime (usually quite distant time)wrote something down becomes sufficient evidence of its truth and accuracy, requiring the suspension of all questioning and critical thinking that, in the real world, are required in legal matters to determine proof, let alone truth. We can see how arguments that rely on facts, even horrendous, unpleasant facts as supplied by sources such as the OT, are rationalized to suit beliefs rather than seen for what they are. In this way, horrendous crimes against humans and all life are dismissed, even justified as "God's will" because the true believer has allowed indoctrination to actually override their own moral standards and values. The religious thinker cannot deal with the obvious contradictions, and the implications of having given over their own spiritual, moral and ethical values, to a system that actually and demonstrably opposes them while it claims to stand for these same, higher values. This enables people to kill, to justify subjugation of others, to endorse heinous acts like infanticide, genocide and terrorism, all in God's name, while being outraged at others who act the same way in the name of another God. It's the logical, though less globally destructive, equivalent of the husband finding his wife in bed with another man and her saying, "Who do you believe, me or your own eyes?" In the real world such obvious contradictions are referred to as crazy-making, in religion accepting such violations of reason and common sense is considered virtuous. These belief systems compartmentalize the mind as well, never allowing logic to intrude on the obvious contradictions because the religious training has always demanded faith and belief, an unquestioning attitude totally opposite the self-responsible thinking necessary to evaluate all other information including spiritual concepts and truths. It would be consistent for these types of "thinkers" to not pour water on a burning house because they believed God would put it out. For that matter, they could even deny their own children life-saving medical care because of the same belief. The expectation that a savior is always coming to save the "faith-full" believers implies an underlying fear about one's very existence and worth and a lack of understanding about life itself. These expectations are not only based on false beliefs they never fully pursue or define the actual outcome of such salvation except in the most infantile of terms. One can ask what the true believer expects would occur when the savior or messiah of their choice arrives. For example, if the savior was here right now, what would happen? Some would parrot one line or another such as, since they were among the "saved", that they would be taken up to heaven while all the lesser human trash was, of course, forever condemned to fire and suffering. Leaving alone the obvious lack of logic and evidence, let alone compassion and the underlying fear expressed in this belief, one could ask: Then what? (We won't even attempt to discuss the hallucinations that some believers experience when they claim to have "personal relationships" with long dead people or, even worse, with long dead people who never existed.) What is your existence in this presumed heaven like? To which various extrememly illogical and infantile answers will be offered, none of which will accord with any known laws of nature or result from any reasoned observation of life. The "saved" believe that they will simply enjoy painlessness and various vague joys in a stressless state of bliss, again contrary to any known laws of nature, life, etc. But they will answer this criticism with another platitude, even the same one that they relied on before to avoid reasoning and evoke a feeling of moral superiority. In their cosmologies belief supercedes not only knowledge, reason and logic but also right action. Religious quotes, straight out of a holy book, are repeated not only to avoid the deeper pains of unacknowledged doubts, denial and fear but also to evoke the narcotic of delusional future bliss, to suppress the religiously indoctrinated, fearful conviction that one is an unredeemed sinner...until that magic day occurs, of ocurse. Remember,if these beliefs were proven true...they would no longer be beliefs. No one needs proclaim their belief in gravity, it's a demonstrable fact. So such religious discussions or arguments that challenge beliefs are always dead end loops. True believers must always rely, unquestioningly, on someone else's words, adulterated, distorted and unproven as they, of necessity, must be. In this way we are asked to suspend all reasoning, all scientific process, all common sense. For to demand and enforce these standards would prove too troubling for the beliefs, the believer and, ultimately, those who manipulate the weak minded through such systems. | ||
Lonnie Morton |
Michael, very thoroughly put indeed! I wish the whole world could read this post. This is one of the FINEST posts ever on this forum. On a power index scale it ranks right at the top. I hope this will put an END to this thread for the time being. Lonnie | ||
Linda |
Hi Michael, Lonnie, and all, Yes, Michael has the ability to put words together in a very impressive way. No argument there. But, is this the "end" of this thread for the time being or ever? I doubt it. I have to say, I guess, in defense of "religion," that I studied in Berkeley, California at a graduate theological school with the best of "thinkers, teachers and researchers," the Jesuits in particular. My Master's research was in the area of precognition and its theological implications, which is why (in addition to my own personal experiences) I am very interested in the whole area of prophecy, Billy's included. To categorize all religious people or scholars as unthinking, illogical, or unquestioning is clearly unfair and inaccurate. Michael says, in part, "True believers must always rely, unquestioningly, on someone else's words . . . " Is this statement not also true of some FIGU-ists and believers of Billy Meier? An example being that for over two years, the forum frequently mentioned how Billy's spirit was the last of a succession of prophets, Jmmanuel included. Finally, one day, I raised the question, what EVIDENCE exists for this claim and found that very little evidence actually exists, even though "followers" seemed to blindly accept this information as fact. Another obvious example would be all the information contained in the contact notes. Admittedly, I've balked at accepting some of this data as "fact" when there is no apparent, substantial probative evidence such as witnesses to these encounters. All we really seem to have to go on is that "higher standard of proof," the fulfillment of prophecy. So,you see, even though I have a "religious" (gawd forbid!) background but am clearly "unchurched" (and have been for a long time!), I QUESTION THINGS ALL THE TIME. Please do not dismiss ALL RELIGION or "religious people", when there are teachings that have stood the test of time, that are probably eternal (and eternally evolving), especially those that have nothing to do with reason, logic, common sense, science . . . but rather love, a powerful universal force. My best to all, Linda | ||
Michael |
I agree with Linda regarding several things including the tendency of some people to make the same mistakes with Billy's info and my not tarring all people involved with religion with the same brush, like the one I applied to the "true believers", which could be another term for extremists. Regarding Billy's info in the Contact Notes, this is indeed where I see the higher standard of proof serving to validate his information. For instance, in 1975 Semjase gave Billy (or for those who rightfully question if we can prove Semjase's existence, Billy published) information making the direct connection between A-bomb explosions and the ozone damage, bromine gases and the ozone damage; UV penetrating through these ozone holes and the destruction of microorganisms, disruption to the food chain and genetic mutations; the connection between the extraction of petroleum and natural gas and the increase in earthquake and volcanic activity. The earliest terrestrial information confirming these very "predictions" occurred in 1987, then 1990, 1991 and 1992, a minimum of 13 years later. And this is just a small example of the kinds of prophetically accurate scientific (and world event-related) information and later terrestrial validation. Billy's information is highly specific, way beyond the possibility of coincidence or chance, and we are always uncovering new confirmation in a wide variety of areas. This is what sets Billy's info apart from any other source, be it the Bible, Nostradamus, etc. One would think that if open minded people would look at the evidence, the facts, they would have to conclude that Billy is indeed genuine and truthful. Nonetheless, I try to be careful not to assert the reality of things which are still considered speculative, like how he gets his info, who the Plejarans really are, if they really exist, etc. And it's not necessary to defend the material with "because Billy says so". What is shown to be true is true but we can't make all the other leaps to claiming that the speculative info is factual. It may not really matter. There is enough credibility, in my opinion, to warrant seriously considering the entire body of available info. The prophecies from the 251st Contact and the Henoch prophecies contain information that already has been fulfilled since they were published. Unfortuantely, with this standard of accuracy, there is so much in those prophecies that should be heeded and averted if possible, and it would only be possible through awakened, reasonable human thought and action. On another note, I had the opportunity to do some work with a former army intelligence officer who told me that the "art" of disinformation was to wrap the truth in a lie. He said, if I rememeber correctly, that the approximate ratio was 20% truth, 80% lie. Applying this to religion, for example, one could say that there are certainly truths in all religions, with a hefty dose of superstition, ritual, unfounded beliefs, distortions, manpulations, etc. that are so intertwined with the truth as to appear inseparable from it. I should add that, to me, the reason that many people are attracted to religion is a good one, i.e. they want to be and do good. I don't think that most people join religions to become evil, narrow minded, fearful, etc. But I do think that some religious teachings actually promote and encourage the wrong things because they can manipulate well intended people through their fears of being "fallen", "sinners" and the like. If one asks why there is more than one religion if all religions are true, the reality of the untruth begins to appear. Why does one religion tell you to pray this way, this number of times, use these words, and another religion has it done very differently? Why does this religion have heaven and hell and that one doesn't? Why does this one have one god, the other a trinity, the next a whole pantheon? So it should be obvious that something isn't accurate. Unfortunately, most religions tell you it's the other religion that is wrong. When looking at the spiritual teachings in this case we certainly notice that there are no chosen people, no only begotten son and no singular prophet. The teachings of Creation are not designed to separate people, encourage discrimination, domination, war, selfishness, etc. Quite the contrary. If Creation is true truth then there need be no sects, cults, religions, rituals, superstitions, saviors, messiahs, heaven, hell, etc., etc. And all people are equally welcome to question, examine, explore and find the truth for themselves, not as a means of advantage over others but to assist others in their search and share in thier discoveries. | ||
Lonnie Morton |
Hi Linda and everyone, The previous posts in this thread has shown just how far one can go with religion. Religious views pro and con, one interpretation or the other, yada yada yada, has been greatly expounded upon here. These kind of discussions can go on and on endlessly, and this been occuring for hundreds and thousands of years, ever since we fell away form the path of Creation. In past civilizations on Earth, do you think that these endless discussions did not take place before they brought themselves to ruin? Quite possible, based upon what is taking place today. My point here is that this is evidence in itself that what Billy wrote down about religion and relegeon makes logical sense. In the FIGU manifesto, relegeon is the factor leading back to the Creative Truth, toward the Ur-Truth of all Creative growth. In other words, relegeon helps us to focus on the present and the future and to grow and make progress with the help of our own spirit. On the other hand, expressed in a religious sense, religion implies a reverse-bond to a god, respectively a creator, within the constraints of religions, to whom man must subordinate himself. Religion causes one to go back, to live in the past so to speak and not make any real progress. It is a reverse link to stagnation. I know just from personal experience the truthfulness of this in my own life. As a whole, looking at the overall picture and not just what we see on a small scale as far as some good here or some tidbits there, religion, no matter what kind of people practice it, or what seemingly good lessons they teach, is, in Billy's words; "A barrier to progress, restiction, restraint and a clinging attachment to prescribed thinking practices and false philosophies, ideologies, doctrines and other teaching by church and creed. The dogmas of cult religions and religious sects deny and disallow man his inherent right to research and fathom the Creative principles and universal connections through his own laborious thinking processes." This is just what we have been talking about. And who can deny that most of, if not all of the irrationality in the the world is due to religion and the reverse link it brings which causes us to go nowhere but backwards and into a vile of hatred and confusion. So, in view of the great potential for further discussions which could go on and on, individually we must be fully responsible and draw a line for ourselves, if we are to take a positive stand for relegeon and our continued progress. The moment we decide to trust the logical teachings and move forward in our thinking the sooner we will leave behind the unkind addiction and causes of stagnation. If we can concentrate (during the meditations) for one minute without letting another thought come into our minds, we will have dramatically changed our lives. Relegeon not religion. Regards, Lonnie | ||
James the truthseeker |
Very cool Lonnie, The meditation you mentioned is very much like what the Dzogchen Tibetan's practice which begins by learning to blank the mind for a minute or more to experience "the silence". From there you can learn all kinds of things such as holding an image in the mind, develope telepathy, healing, etc, and more. Really cool stuff! To everyone, As much as Billy and the Plejarans are able to tell us all kinds of good things, I think that the best thing they want us to learn is how to think. It's always being a wonder to me that our schools can teach our children and ourselves what they want us to learn such as grammer, language skills, etc, yet they don't seem to teach us how to think with good thinking skills. For many years I had and have been interested in Bible and other prophecies. I'm sure your all familiar with "the book of revelation" and many people have and will continue to interpret these prophecies of armageddon as such one famous Christion author "Hal Linsey" did in the late 1970's. Now that the turn of the century has come and gone, the fact remains that we are all still here and there has not being a World War 3. Thank God!, or should I say "Thank Creation"! It should be evident to everyone that with a growing human over-population of the planet, there is going to be a growing lack of resources which not only is going to be a strain on the planet itself, but also peoples tensions are going to be rising in desperation and desperate people are known to do desperate things. Call it what you will such as the quickening, the awakening, armageddon, etc. Thus any real thinking person is going to see that no matter what religion people may believe, with a growing overpopulation of the planet, something is going to eventually give and it shouldn't take just a prophet for any thinking person to see this comming. Peace, James the truthseeker | ||
Hampton Hsien-Ting Chiu |
Hi Linda, Lars, Michael, Mr. Morton, JTT, Edward and all: What a surprise to see such a debate there on this forum. I thought it just a regular weekend... Linda, thank you for sharing your personal experience with us, so you are less religious than Lars. Lars, I still have no clue how you could come up with the idea of Immanuel is Jesus Christ? I think the correct way to read any material is not to expand the original meaning, that is why most of Mr. Meier's booklet has the original German script besides the translated language, if any reader has problem, he/she can always refer to German script. I believe you are trying to expand Jehovah's saying about the name 'Immanuel' into 'Jesus Christ', only Jehovah himself can do that. Either Jehovah made a mistake or someone made a lot of mistakes in translating New Testament. We can only get closer to truth after debate. To Michael, Mr. Morton and JTT, I believe the best way to discuss religion with religious people, is to follow their logics, and ask those people to explain what is wrong in their logics. Though I know Mr. Meier's teaching is much logical than the Bible, but religious people can rarely understand Mr. Meier's teaching and will stick with the Bible, believe in same god in OT and NT, if this god changed his mind in a regular frequency, now it is about time this god will change his mind again, (every 2000 year he changed his mind, according to my calculation) The real scary part would be if you think Lars is a religious person, in fact, he would be regarded as 'radical' in a church, because he believe in ET! Imagine those true 'religious' ones, so I personally welcome you, Lars. Peace. Hampton Chiu | ||
Hampton Hsien-Ting Chiu |
Hi Lars: I re-read your post regarding the name, you quote Isaiah 9.6, because you said the baby will be given many names, but I read it differently, I think in Isaiah 9.6, all those descriptions of name is meant for just 'Immanuel', or there will be a contradiction between Isaiah 7.14, 8.8 and 9.6. Please let me know if you disagree. Peace. Hampton Chiu | ||
Claes Elmberg |
Hello everyone, I usually don’t read much of the posts on religion but over the past few days I have followed your comments with interest. I have now studied the Figu teachings for a year (6 months on the net) and it is very rewarding for my own understanding. I think, whereever we are in the world we will encounter religious people that will oppose the logic of Figu's teachings. I thank you all, for your comments. Reading them on the boerd, helps me to be able to express my self more clearly when discussing and trying to explain the Figu Teachings to people with a religious background. Here in New Zealand, where I am, many have a catholic religious background. I am from Sweden where people in general have been relatively spared from religions and I am grateful that I was born there, Thankyou Creation. As I see it some religions and a lot of the channelled information is just wishful thinking. People want some outside source to come and save them from this world which seems to be going down the drain. I would be happy to be taken to another more pleasant world any time, but I see that it is not logical or likely to happen. So I try to make the most of my time here, and the Figu Teachings have really helped me to tie the knots togeather and have added a lot of missing pieces to my puzzel, and my understanding and growing is faster than ever before. I have realized that the more I learn and work on my self on all different levels in every way, the less suffering there is in my life and the more I enjoy and feel grateful for beeing here. My sense of what my purpose is here this time around is getting stronger all the time. Thankyou Figu and Billy for giving us this immeasurable treasure. And thankyou Michael for your excellent clarifying comments. I enjoy them and agree with most of it. It is also very interesting to see Lonnies comments as an ex-minister, and Linda and all other logical thinkers on the board. LOVE & LIGHT, //Claes | ||
Christian Frehner |
Hi all, It's interesting to read through the many contributions to this discussion about religion. Several thoughts come to my mind: a) A person should not try to convert another person (from person to person) to his/her own confession, views, philosophy, belief system, etc. b) This is especially valid if the other person believes in the accurateness and holiness of the Bible, be it OT and/or NT. c) A believer in Jesus, Mary, Father and the Holy Ghost is not necessarily a less good person than a person who is accepting the Spiritual Teaching(s). d) Sometimes, in the heat of discussion, the three former points may slip from one's attention. J e) During the 212th contact between Quetzal and Billy of November 6, 1986, the following information was brought forth about the Torah, which is a collection of stories gathered by the old Hebrews at Moses' time, some 3.500 years ago: The collection, of which only one version existed, was burnt completely during a blaze of fire (Library of Alexandria). Therefore, from then all of those stories had to be handed down orally/verbally over many generations! It is up to any person to imagine how accurate those stories were when they were recorded, once again, 800 years later (let alone that it must be quite doubted/questioned whether the original "stories" were entirely accurate, because they based not on written but on oral tradition). Anyway, some day 12 self-nominated prophets by their own grace gathered a certain number of scribes (= persons who could write) and went out into the desert, where they lived for some 40 frugal days and wrote down 240 books (with the exception of the Pentateuch most of those books were rather short), out of which the new Torah emerged, from which then originated the Bible, the OT. Later, most of those 240 books were lost, and only ca. 33 remained and today constitute the Torah. Additionally it should be mentioned that, as it was the case with Muhammed, the prophets of the Torah could neither read nor write (quite contrary to Jmmanuel). f) Regarding "the book of revelation": These are dreams and visions of a person that anybody may interpret according to his or her own wishes and needs. In order to being able to clearly explain the content of this "revelation" the author would have to be present. Since he (or she?) has died many years ago it's up to anybody's imagination and fantasy, therefore, to explain and interpret the somber information. g) Somehow it is a real tragedy that there are still people here on Earth waiting for the Messiah to come down from the clouds. Considering the fact that the "Messiah" already appeared two thousand years ago, this waiting process may very well transform into eternity (if "the penny doesn't drop" in the meantime). Regards, Christian | ||
E. Visser |
Hi all. It's good to see so many wise words being spoken in accordance with free will.I'm a firm believer of Free will,not God's will. I also had a religious upbringing.Bible lessons from a priest and believe it or not knitting classes and the sorts from nuns.In my teens I came to the realisation that the events in the world and the actions by individual people are not part of God's will. Since then I developed a sense that all people have Free will and that God is in nature itself. Religion seems to be a set of rules for people on how to behave.Some of those rules have a good purpose.Thou shall not kill.Thou shall not steal and so on. What draws the line for me in religion is the notion that a person should be God fearing.A phrase often heard in America where a person states "I'm a God-fearing,law-abiting citizen".What comes to my mind is,what need does God have for my fears? I would think that God would want to see me as a wise and loving person and not some person that worries all day over not upsetting God. In the Creational teachings I see a similar set of rules but in a different format.As I allready stated for me God is nature and nature is energy. What I'm not yet convinced about is what part Free will plays in the Creational teachings. Sometimes I get the impression Creation is edged in stone.I'm still looking into it and learning but like in religion it seems a narrow straight path to enlightment. Regards, TerraX. | ||
James the truthseeker |
Greetings TerraX, I have to admit that you always have something interesting to say. Like yourself, I also started out as a Christian, but from the Church of England which at the time I didn't mind because it was always friendly and I was never told to fear God or be "born-again". Athough church got boring at times with all the talk, what I did like about it was the sense of community, purity and rituals such as candle light services, the music hymns and singing. These simple rituals were more like for the purpose of custom celebrations then they were for worship which became kind of fun and meaningful in the moment. I'm sure you've all at some point enjoyed Christmas, Thanks-giving, Easter and so on at some point in your lives. Athough these things aren't necessary, they do add a bit of meaning to our lives. Christanity was never a real problem with me directly as I grew up, until I was in college. In a manner of speaking, I wonder if Billy himself would be ordained to marry a couple? How was he married and do they have Christmas, etc at the center? Peace in wisdom, James the truthseeker | ||
Lars |
Hi Hamton, to answer your question about Isaiah.9:6 You said, "I think in Isaiah.9:6 all those descriptions of name is meant just for Jmmanuel. But let me ask you why then, if all those names are meant for Jmmanuel, why then does'nt the TJ corroborate those names in the Talmud Jmmanuel? Where is Jmmanuel ever called the "Mighty God, and everlasting father"? How can Isaiah.9:6 apply to the Jmmanuel of the TJ that of the increase of His government there will be no end upon the throne of David and upon his kingdom to order it? How can the anti-semitic-jew hating Jmmanuel of the TJ have the increase of government upon David's throne, which is a Jewish throne and government? over the Jewish people? It seems like the height of hypocrisey for Jmmanuel and Billy to think they were this Messiah of Isaiah.9:6 when they deny and exclude the Jewish people from their beliefs and call them all false, while all the while depending on several verses from the hebrew scripts to maintain their own calling as a prophet. I'm sorry but something sounds quite illogical here. As I said before one cannot just dismiss all the rest of Isaiah's prophecies and call them falsified, because they stand the test and have and continue to fulfill themselves much to consternation of the Devil and the enemies of Israel. Just because aliens appear in space craft with great signs and wonders and say that the Bible is trash and is'nt fully true is no evidence and proof that it's not true. Regards, Lars | ||
Hampton Hsien-Ting Chiu |
Hi Lars: I think we are having some healthy discussion here, since none of my religious acquaintance is willing to go into such detailed discussion. I hope Mr. Frehner would not mind if both of us think this is benificial to our spiritual development. Whenever you feel this discussion is not helping you or me in any way, then we should stop this discussion. First of all, I have a New World Translation version of Bible, and in Isaiah 9.6, it mentioned about 'And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.' If we are talking about the same baby/person between Isaiah 7.14/8.8 and 9.6, then obviously the meaning should be the same as I said, the name 'Immanuel' equal to all those definitions, but if we are not talking about the same person here, then that person could have 4 different names. So my first question to you is 'Are we talking about the same person in Isaiah 7.14/8.8 and 9.6 ??' I think 7.14 and 8.8 obviously are talking about the same person, since Jehovah quoted the same name, but in Isaiah 9.6, no name is quoted. If Jehovah is talking about the same person, then the name should be the same, and Jehovah only mentioned one name, Immanuel, thus we can say in Isaiah 9.6, all the definitions are describing 'Immanuel'. If we are not talking about the same person in Isaiah 7.14/8.8 and 9.6, and in 9.6 I assume that you think it is talking about Jesus Christ, (correct me if I am wrong), then the meaning of 'Wonderful counselor, Mighty God, Eternam Father, Price of Peace', is any one matching 'Jesus Christ'? I thought in your previous post you said 'Jesus Christ' means ' Anointed to save or Salvation." or basically 'God saves', and I don't see that fit into any of the four definitions of the name. I did not see anything saying 'save' in the name definition in the Isaiah 9.6. As you said in the previous post that this person(Jesus Christ) is 'predestined and procreated to SAVE men enslaved by the fallen archangels who hold planet earth captive under their mentality', but your god Jehovah did not mention anything in this person's name involved 'SAVE', but the name Jesus Christ involved 'SAVE' or 'SAVER', isn't that contradicting? Your logic would work if you tell me 'Jesus Christ' meaning either 'Wonderful Counselor', 'Mighty God', 'Eternal Father', or 'Price of Peace', according to Isaiah 9.6, but it does not match with your or common meaning of 'Jesus Christ' which is 'God Save' or Anointed to save or Salvation. My logic says Isaiah 7.14/8.8 and 9.6 are talking about the same person, thus Immanuel means those 4 definition, and that is directly quoted from Jehovah, no one can or should change the meaning of that name, unless someone recorded those section wrong. My second question to you, Lars, will be 'does the name Jesus Christ match the meaning in Isaiah 9.6 ??' Again, Lars, I appreciate your input in this topic, I learn a lot from this discussion, and I believe quoting directly from Bible is the only way and the right way to debate the logic in Bible, TJ, on the other hand, is recognized by only extremely few people as genuine Immanuel teaching, and I can not build my question against Bible logic base on TJ. Now you know why I got a 'D' in my undergraduate religious class. I asked too many questions... Peace. Hampton Chiu | ||
Lonnie Morton |
Hi Christian and everyone, Reading your posts is truly a refreshment. Your friendly reminders are very appropriate. Especially since we have some here that believe in the accuracy and holiness of the bible. These people need the freedom to think for themselves because the unreasonable influence of Christianity and it's bible is so negatively powerful. The history of the Torah is also very helpful in determining the reliability of the OT, and whether or not we can put our trust in these writings. As you can see from the discussions in this thread, for the past month there has been nothing of real substance established from asking questions about what certain bible scriptures may or may not represent or mean, in view of how so many writings were falsified over the centuries to the point that it is foolish to trust these writings based upon recent testimony from a more reliable source. The point here is that these discussions are fruitless and empty if we are going to base our arguments on the bible record. Many of the answers to questions that have been asked by Lars and others can be found on the FIGU website and literature that is available in English as well as from responses from members of this forum. As far as trusting the credibility of Billy and the Plejarans, as some have questioned, since there is undeniable evidence that Billys' contacts are real, then it would make no sense whatsoever for Billy and the Plejarans to tell us the truth about some things and then lie to us about other things concerning mans' history and the spiritual teachings. This would be self defeating, illogical and against the very purpose of the mission. From my own experience as a former bible student and minister with Jehovahs' Witnesses, even though there may be some accuracies with prophecies and there fulfillment and fine principals to think about, overall the bible is like a huge puzzle with many pieces missing providing an unclear and incomplete picture. Certainly this is a major reason that a prophet like Billy has had to come along every 1000-2000 years or so to clarify things. The effects of cult religion on peoples' lives can be seen in the child abuse sex scandals which have come to light recently within the Watchtower Society (Jehovahs' Witnesses), a more serious epidemic than what has been exposed within the Catholic church. Because of the "christ consciousness" or stricly bible mode way of thinking taken from the NT, and adhering to a policy based on an ancient edict that requires two witnesses, a policy that is hurting children, child molestors are being protected and innocent victims silenced with the threat of being disfellowshipped or condemned by god for speaking out against this policy. One former elder now calls this organization a "pedophile paradise." But the governing body believes that they are doing what "god" (Jehovah) requires of them, with the approval of his alleged son Jesus Christ, according to what is written in the bible, and will not change their policy or even apologize to the victims. (Jehovah and Christ in action!) It did not take long for me to see the unreasonableness, illogic and lack of sensibleness with religion after hearing about Billy and the contacts. And not many could have been more faithful than I was. With all this senseless talk about defending cult religion and it's teachings, especially christianity, it's good to have left that sinking ship. It is much better to be a normal man like Billy than to be any part of an organization that teaches people to be followers of an imaginary "superman" with godly sparkle that is not in harmony with reality. All this being a creation of the church based on the life of Jmmanuel. Jmmanuel knew this would happen, and this may have caused him even greater suffering than the crucifiction. How sad that so many do not have the spiritual strength to see this because of faith and religion. Regards, Lonnie | ||
Hampton Hsien-Ting Chiu |
Hi everyone: While I post on this forum, I try not to set my mindset in the first place, like Bible is wrong or TJ is right, because once I set it like that, it is difficult to discuss further. My approach is to stay with the other people's logic, and find out what's wrong in their logic, if their logic works, that's fine, because their belief system has a sound logic fundation, else, they need to review my questions to see if their faith need further consideration or not. I wouldn't say current Bible is wrong, in my opinion, it just has a lot of errors, so some of the sections are contradicting, but still contains a lot of valuable information, such as reincarnation in Matthew, though the name is in dispute, but the concept is there. Mr. Frehner's posting is correct and accurate, as typical German logic, pointing from a to g, clear and concise. Mr. Frehner, if you think I am violating section B in your post, please let me know. Thanks. Peace Hampton Chiu | ||
Edward |
Hi Lars, If I may give a correction: Jmmanuel was an "Arab-Palestinain-Jew". And Thus...Not just a Jew...alone...as you have mentioned. And I can surely see Jmmanuel before me saying:"Who are those Scribes to say that I am a Jew! I Will name myself as what I am. Born of Arab-Palestinian-Jewish Seed. Of One Brotherhood." All the Peoples in that part of the region(s) Are "Arabs"...of descent. As this Name...Being The Name of their Tribes-Fathers and Mothers. Including...the 'Zion/Hebrew/Jews'. And this is where..a part of the Jewish people will Not Acknowledge...this Fact. As they do Not want to 'Recognize' their "UR-Root(s)"...alas. And wanting to be a Body Above...the rest...of All Humanity. And I would not say he(Jmmanuel) Betrayed his People... "But the People... Betrayed Him...and His Teachings of the Laws of Nature and Creation." Yes, this has been a Tremendous Discussion. I Can Understand everyone's point of views. Very Healthy to Learn from. Edward. | ||
Norm |
This is how I view it. Its pretty clear to me that Jesus is the Anti-Jmmanuel! Jmmanuel is the Truth, Jesus is destruction of the Truth, Jesus & Anti-Christ are the same! All along these Christians have been following the Anti-Jmmanuel. Next the Christians will say that Billy is a Anti-Christ, which in a way will be true because he will destroy the false teachings of Christianity by making known the TRUTH! I've already come across websites claiming that Semjase is the fallen angel Shemyaza. Here's a few quotes, "Meier's Pleidians. Besides Mastema and Azazel, one of the other chief leaders of these fallen angels was named Shemyaza. Consider these two names side by side: Semjase <and> Shemyaza" "Billy Meier has had multiple encounters, not with a beautiful being from outer space, but rather with a deceptive being from inner space? In the Bible we are warned about Satan and his minions appearing as angels of light. Could it be that the beautiful Pleiadian woman 'Semjase' is one such appearance? For the rest of this distortion go here. Link | ||
Christian Frehner |
Hi Hampton Chiu, Regarding your question: "Mr. Frehner, if you think I am violating section B in your post, please let me know. Thanks." my answer is "No, I don't think so". J Regards, Christian | ||
Christian Frehner |
Hi Edward, Since Mary, Jmmanuel's mother, was not of Jewish origin/faith (according to what Billy told me), Jmmanuel himself was no Jew either (his father being the extraterrestrial Gabrjel). Regards, Christian | ||
Norm |
Christian, Mary would be considered of what lineage? | ||
Linda |
Hello Christian, It's so nice to have you weigh in on this discussion with your prevailing reason and welcome attempt to diffuse the sometimes heated, negative polarization that takes place here. It is clear that some forum members have difficulty with and express opposition to a discussion about "religion," but since FIGU seems to allow for this topic area, I can only assume it is for a purpose. I recently suggested that we find some common ground, with similarities found in the TJ and the Gospel of Matthew presented by Jim Deardorff at this link. I have two questions for you regarding the Book of Revelations. You state that the writer has authored an account of his dreams or visions which can only be interpreted as a person wishes or needs. When I was in seminary, an entire class was devoted to the Book of Revelations and was taught to be a "code genre," as with other books, such as Daniel. John had been exiled to the island of Patmos, and to protect himself and the early Christians to whom he was writing and who were being persecuted, he wrote in a "code" that would be understood at that time. Question one is, have you ever heard of this "code genre" theory, resulting from biblical scholarship? Question two is if, in fact, Revelations is a dream or vision to be interpreted, how do you interpret the many references to "the seven stars?" (As an aside, some of my peer seminarians wondered if John had been munching on some island hallucinogens! J Consider the source. Berkeley has always been known to be radical and a bit "left of left," its seminarians being no exception.) Thanks again for your contribution, Linda | ||
Edward |
Hi Norm and Christian, Yes, Norm...you are very clear on your posting. That is well put.. I must say. I have also Seen it in that manner. I was aware of your link. Christian, I see... what you mean. Yes, from what lineage would Mary be? I understood she was of Jewish lineage(eventhough she may not have wanted it to be as it was.. was my presumion). As the Religion/Faith that was put upon them.. I was viewing from. The same with Jmmanuel...ofcourse. As concerning Jmmanuel: I am aware of his father seed. But was just refering to this in flesh and blood.. if we can consider it this way.. when... taken away...his father's seed...virtually. Thank you for your clearification. Edward. | ||
James the truthseeker |
Greetings Norm, My understanding is that Mary's lineage is that of the Essenes as her parants Neithen(father)and Onna(mother) were Essense according to Edgar Cayce. Mary herself however may not have been a practicing Essene like her parents were. Peace, James TT. | ||
Norm |
James, Essenes were a Jewish sect which existed from the 2nd century B.C. to the 2nd Century A.D.! | ||
James the truthseeker |
Greetings Norm, that may be so, but the Essenes coming in from the group known as the "Nazareans" had disasociated themselves from the main Jewish sect long before Jmmanuel's time because of the barbarianism writings of the Jewish religion. | ||
Edward |
Hi All, I asummed that Mary was of Jewish..'Descent' (lineage).. becuase this was mainly mentioned. We did discuss concerning the Jewish people once on this board.. concerning that Jmmanuel was Jewish(form Mary's side)... which was Verified... by a Passive member...mentioning this. I took this to be a Valide Verification... which is not true as we now know from Christian(can not remember which Passive member). I take it that that Passive member may have seen it from the same point of view as I(and others). But it's good Christian..giving this correction.. I would say. Edward. | ||
Edward |
Hi James and All, I did once read that Mary was of Essenes Lineage. But I only came across this acouple of times. And could not verify this be valide. It would be in it's place if Christian.. or another Passive member(with this knowledge)would Verify this.. to be Ture or not...I would say. I guess this is the only way we will know. To keep us from any other Misunderstandings. Edward. | ||
Norm |
I don't believe Mary was Essenian, I need more proof than Cayce. Even if she was that would still make her of Jewish lineage. | ||
Savio |
Hi all I remember Phil McAiney mentioned about Mary: "Mary was not involved with the Essenes. She and Joseph were ordinary spirits and not special or elevated in any way from Earth humans. Billy was told this. " Regards Savio | ||
James the truthseeker |
Greetings Norm & Savio, If I'm correct, the Nazereans and perhaps even the Ossaeans, do not consider themselves as being Jewish or of Jewish Descent. Some Essene members may think otherwise today along with their own beliefs of Jmmanuel having been a part of their group. What is the true lineage of the Nazereans?, perhaps Billy will know concerning the writings of Edgar Cayce. Although I'm not totally sure about the Ossaeans. There is simply not enough information about them to say eather way. It does show in the TJ that Joseph was from the line of David, and a number of other prophets going back to Adam. Of course Mary herself was not directly involved with the Essenes because this was something to do only with her parents and it would seem that the Essenes try to use this to validate their association with Jmmanuel which as we all know simply isn't so. Despite Mary's parents, in a manner of speaking, she was not associated with the Essenes any more then Jmmanuel was. Peace, James the truthseeker | ||
James the truthseeker |
Greetings, I found this quoted from Edgar Cayce's book, "Edgar Cacye's story of Jesus", found at: http://www.essene.com Note that I'm keeping this within the 2 sentence rule. "Thus in Carmel -- where there were the chief priests and leaders of this faith -- there were the maidens chosen who were dedicated to this purpose....Among them was Mary, the beloved, the chosen one". "This(Mount Carmel) was the original place where the school of prophets was established during Elijah's time...Here, the Essenes prepared themselves for several generations to open as it were a door into this realm for the Messiah...And he became known as Yahowshua the Nazorene, for he was of the Essenian sect of Nazorenes in the region of Carmel". Again keep in mind that Mary and Jmmanuel may not have being directly involved with the Essense, but the Nazoreans knew of his coming and Mary's Parents would have helped Mary in their Preparations learned from this sect. What we need to find out from Billy, is at what point did Mary's Parents disassociate themselves from this sect, should Edgar Cayce prove to be correct? The Essenes of course will deny this would have and if it had happened. "Yahowshua" would have being the name giving to "Jmmanuel the prophet" by the Essenes. To my understanding, a "Messiah" is a "Prophet of wisdom". Peace, James the truthseeker | ||
Edward |
Hi Norm, James...and All, Very good explained. I do understand your point of views. I would Turly Love to have a Concrete Valide Verification...if I may. Christian mentioning the he did receive his answer directly from Billy. I would say he is telling the Truth...but he must...if he will..give us more details...as which lineage Mary Directly..is from. This Would Clear-up the Fog. Edward. | ||
Christian Frehner |
Hi Edward, According to Billy (and Quetzal during a contact in 1988), Joseph and Maria/Mary were a married couple that did not belong to any denomination/religion. Both came (originated) from Tiberia at the Sea of Galilee. Mary was the daughter of a family of traders/merchants, Joseph the son of a family of shipbuilders and carpenters. Regards, Christian | ||
Hampton Hsien-Ting Chiu |
Hi Christian: I think that is a really logical choice of selecting parents for Immanuel, keep away from any racial dispute, thus Immanuel later could allow all races of people in that area to go to his gathering, not just for Jews, but then that is why he is sentenced to death because Jews believe they are the chosen people. Did Immanuel's teaching later contribute to Buddhism's reincarnation concept in India? Because in the very beginning 2500 years ago, Buddhism does not have reincarnation concept, maybe it comes from Hindu religion? But Hindu started earlier than Buddhism, and Buddhism actually separated from Hindu, and if at that time Buddhism did not take reincarnation concept from Hindu, why they do it later? Any information from Mr. Meier? Thanks. Hampton Chiu | ||
Norm |
It makes sense to me, the Plejarens wouldn't want their Messenger to be of the Jewish faith, after all his teachings were going to replace theirs. | ||
Norm |
Hampton, I don't think it has anything to do with Race. It had to do with Teachings & Religions. PS The Jew's aren't a Race! | ||
Norm |
I wonder if Jmmanuel would then be considered a Palestinian. | ||
James the truthseeker |
So if Mary's parents were from Tiberia at the Sea of Galilee, then how far away was that form Mount Carmel? If Edgar Cayce was right, then perhaps it would still be safe to assume that Mary's parent(s) would have left the Nazoreans to perhaps marry and pursue a life of being traders or merchants and thus becoming non-religious. Joseph also may not have being religious but in the TJ(1:53-80) one can clearly see he is still a descendent of King Davjd and then king Solomon. I've heard some people suggest that Jmmanuels parents both had considerable wealth as merchants and ship builders. | ||
JAY |
Norm, Yes in Earth terms Jmmanuel may have been a palestinian, yet in all reality he is of the Gabriel lineage and also Mary's as well. So I would say it is safe to say that Jmmanuel is Plejaran descent or the race which his father Gabriel was at the time. | ||
Hampton Hsien-Ting Chiu |
Hi After second thought, race or skin color may not be that important, it just a material world instrument/body to fulfill the mission in that incarnation. Hampton | ||
Edward |
Hi Christian, That would be more in it's place..what you have made clear now. I always did have the idea that Joseph amd Mary were of no Religion or faith as you mentioned. So the only data that is based True is the family trade(s)...as I can see. Which I was aware of. So I guess it would be: Jmmanuel was: an Arab, Palestineian, Tiberian. (Land Tribes name)-(Land born in)-(Root Origin) And with Gabirel's Seed: an Arab, Palestinian,'Plejaran',Tiberian. (Land Tribes name)-(Land born in)-(Root Origin) Thank you for clearifing this to use All. Edward. | ||
Edward |
Hi All, I came across an elderly neighbour and we haven't seen eachother for a long while. We sat and talked about this and that and than we ended up in..Religion and Faith...and all that was associated with it. Than we came to a discussion of The Koran and Christianity..and Catholicisum. He just as I being of European and Asian descent..he looked at Both worlds as I had also done. He was also Conscious..that this had some great advantages..when it came down to Studying..Traditions and Ways of Life. He explained that when he was young and still living in Asia..he was brought-up with Catholicisum...just as my parents. But he..just like my father...did also..stand Open for The Koran..and it's traditions and teachings. He came to a point in our discussion..when the topic was of that "Lies"..in Religion/Faith..would Surely...React Back to a person. And so he told me that it was in the asian tradition...that if one would die...with many many Lies...his or her body would contain..an abundance amount of Fluide/Moisture. And that this was a side-effect of One Not Living according to "The Laws of Nature and Creation.." and False Teachings which in some cases are mentioned in The Koran..and other Asian Teachings/ Philosophy. This moisture...he told further would only Accelerate the Deday of a dead body. And making it "Rot"..if you will..in no time. And a Body that lives with Truth...to the Laws of Nature and Creation and the Holy-Scriptures... would Not Receive this Abundance of Moisture. And that the Natural Fluides...Condence Naturally..from the body. Which will leave the body in a Mummified-State(Dried)..if you will. And be Consumed back to Mother Earth rapidly...in a Natural Decomposition Process...in the Same way...in was Created. In a Less or Not...Rotting manner. I was not so surprised when he told me this. So I exchanged my findings with him. I made clear to him..that I had done some research of my own concerning Cancer. And I did make some findings..that I once read that if a person...lives with "Lies"..just as he mentioned(False Religions and Faith...etc.)..this person being a Spark of Nature and Creation...would Surely...lead to Consequences. Very Severe Consequences. As I made clear to him that the findings I read..stated that..if One would Live One's live with Lies and False Religions/Faith...etc...the Natural Forces of Nature and Creation..would 'Resist' those UnNatural False themes.. within this body...which has made it's Body...."UnHoly"... and "Unclean". And the Result...on this body..would be called "Cancer". This person is letting it's body 'Rot' away..just by living an UnHoly lifestyl. So this "Resistance" would only be a "Natural Reaction"..Remedying the consequences..form this UnHoly Deed. I mentioned to him...that I once watched a tv-program and that concerned Cancer...and the commantator...made clear that of all groeps of people on earth...the 'Jewish People' had the Most Severe type(s) of Cancer...Proven by researchers. So, when I heard this...a Light went On. He also announced that all the Jewish people of the past generations to yearly get a Cancer Check-up..for their best will...and their Offspring..he was told to mention this by doctors. What I am saying now...is Not to Insult any groeps of people..neither the Jewish people. This is just some Facts..in Historical Writings..and Research..to Benifit All Humanity. If we look back in History...it Is..mentioned over and over..and All Over The World..that the 'Jewish People'... Spread...Like Cancer...over our World/Planet. And I must admit...it is Truely being Realized.."Letterly"! From the Findings mentioned above. For I will add..this is just a Majority of them. As we can Acknowledge..it is only a Minority...of these people that live with Truth to the Laws of Nature and Creation...as mentioned..by Jmmanuel. So I come to conclusion...that the old and elderly Prophets(Worldly Prophets..small and Great lineage) in the past...have Spoken True words...in this Prophecy...alas. And that Every Human Being on earth...from any race of people.. it would be sensible to live Ones's life...According to the Laws of Nature...and Creation..for One's Own best will...and for Creation. We Not only Slow-down Our-Selves... but Creation...also. And Every Acting Creation makes...Is Justified! Even if it is Outside our Comprehendion. And we must keep in mind that Cancer is a Western WelFare Illness...alas. And the more we Live Opposing the Laws of Nature and Creation...and spread our UnTruthful Ways of Life..and Pollute our Spirits and Bodies..this Illness of Cancer will spread rapidly World-Wide. If One would have an Illness in One's body...One would also..take Remedial Measures toward a Healing-Process. Based on Common-Sence and Logic. Edward. | ||
Linda |
Edward, ??????? I'm having difficulty understanding your post. But, I'm gathering that you're saying something to the effect that Jewish people suffer from the most severe forms of cancer, and that is is a "fact" proven by "research and historical writings." ??????? I can only imagine (for starters) that many Jewish people and the American Medical Association (AMA) would be curious to know the source of this information, especially as it seems to relate to "false teachings," etc. etc. etc. Just exactly what is your source of information here? On the face of it, your statement or "claim" sounds pretty wild to me! Linda | ||
Hampton Hsien-Ting Chiu |
Hi Linda: FYI, when my wife and I went to a gene clinics for fetus check up few years ago, the nurse told us that average Asian has lowest rate of defective gene illness, Caucasian is 10 times higher to have genetic problem, and Jewish is 40 times higher to have defective gene problem. And I remembered vividly that the nurse told me most of the couples came to check fetus gene is not religious, I guess if you are religious, defective gene will be God's decision, no matter good or bad, we have to take it. Our decision at that time is if our fetus has defective gene, we will consider abortion, but fortunately our baby is healthy. My guess is Jewish people did not mate with other people with different religion a lot? and if the gene pool is limited, then defective gene problem will not resolve. Peace. Hampton | ||
Linda |
Hi Hampton, First, let me congratulate you and your wife on the birth of your healthy baby! The statistics you relate are new to me and a bit concerning, especially as they are coming from a scientific professional. I offer this quote from http://www.messianic-racism.mcmail.com/mr/rac/racists.htm: "Jewish race" is principally the creation of secular 19th century "scientific racism." Science has long since abandoned its belief in this idea, but it now lives on in society as myth. "Jewish race" today tends to be what uninformed non-Jews make of the Jew in society. This is but a specific case of a general observation, i.e. that "race" is what uninformed persons make of "physical otherness" in society. My understanding of Edward's post was that there was a direct correlation between cancer and Judaism, the religious teachings themselves. That's what I was questioning and hopefully, Edward will clarify that position, if I've read it correctly. Additionally, any suggestion that Jewish people are superlatively defective genetically causes me the most concern, and takes me back to a time in history that I think all of us would like to forget, but unforunately, cannot forget. Peace to you as well! Linda | ||
Hampton Hsien-Ting Chiu |
Hi Linda and Edward: In Epidemiology point of view, they regard 'Jewish' people if you think you are Jewish, that is, if you pick the race as Jewish in the form, you are in the catagory. Analyzing disease by race and area help government to distribute limited medical resource to treat people more efficiently. After re-reading Edward's post, I rememebered some old Taiwanese/Chinese tradition/superstition, we believe that when a person did a lot of good things before he/she died, the bone/remain will naturally dry, and sometime even will have some 'crystal ball', even color ones, if you burn the bone to ashes. If a person did a lot of bad stuff in last incarnation, then the remain/bone will be wet and smell bad even after relative open the coffin years later. But of course some people says it is because of underground water flood the coffin. Just a thought. Peace. Hampton | ||
Linda |
Hampton and Edward, I'm still concerned about Jews/Judaism and the relation to illness, cancer in particular, and hope for some clarification here, pursuant to Edward's claim of relevant "research and historical writings." This is the issue I'm focused on. Linda | ||
Shannon |
Hampton, Congratulations are in order! ! Best wishes for a healthy baby! Please tell your wife (and to any woman who is pregnant) to be very careful not to ingest products containing the artificial sweetener "aspartame". Aspartame is a neurotoxin found in sugar free products, especially diet soda and sugar free gum, and effects of it during pregnancy can cause mental retardation to the unborn child. In adults it can cause symptoms that mimic Multiple Sclerosis, and it takes 3 months or more for the chemical to leave the human body entirely. Caucasian women should avoid MSG during pregnancy, as that is thought to cause birth defects in caucasian fetuses only, although asian fetuses seem to be immune to the effects of MSG. moderator: (Sorry I didn't stay within the topic, but I wanted to reply to Hampton's post here because of the importance of the issue) | ||
Shannon |
Does anyone remember a Chrismas song that ends with the words "Christ is born -Immanuel"? I can only remember those words of the song, but I remember very clearly singing those words. I dont know exactly which Christmas song that is. Anyone? | ||
Linda |
Lars, I want to make sure that you see this article entitled "Evidence of Jesus Written in Stone - Ossuary (burial box) of Jesus' Brother Backs Up Biblical Accounts." There is some discussion of this achaeological find in the "Mysteries" section below and some links to follow. Here's are a couple of quotes from the article I mention: "The James ossuary may be the most important find in the history of New Testament archaeology," says Hershel Shanks, editor of Biblical Archaeology Review. "It has implications not just for scholarship, but for the world's understanding of the Bible." I'm certain you will find this very interesting! An article about this discovery appeared on the front page of my newspaper today. Linda | ||
Jim Deardorff |
Hi Linda, Here's a note about it I've written. That news item gave the translation of the inscription on the ossuary box as: "James the son of Joseph and brother of Jesus." The writer of the article about it was properly cautious in including the scholar's estimate that during the time period in which it could have been written, there would likely have been around 20 other Jameses who had fathers named Joseph and a brother named Joshua (Jesus). However, they're right that it was rare for an ossuary inscription to name the guy's brother, too. And that this wouldn't have been done unless the brother was noted for something really special. So it could indeed have been the ossuary box of James, the brother of Immanuel. Should we then expect that the name "Immanuel" should have been inscribed on it, rather than "Joshu = Jesus"? Probably not, in my opinion, since Paul managed to influence all of the developing Christianity to use the name "Jesus" and not "Immanuel." And his influence in doing this was from around 40 A.D. to about 67, his death. So there was a generation of time for the "Jesus" name to take hold in the Jerusalem area before the inscription was written around 63 A.D. Much would have depended, too, upon who wrote the inscription and his feelings about Immanuel aka "Jesus" as to which name he would write. "Jesus" became the name that was widely known, while "Immanuel (Jmmanuel)" became forgotten. Regards to all, Jim P.S. to Shannon, The hymn "O Little Town of Bethlehem" has "Immanuel" as the last word of its 4th verse. | ||
Linda |
Hi Jim, Interesting commentary, especially as you seem to lean toward the probability of the ossuary's genuineness, if I read you correctly. For the benefit of those who don't read The Oregonian, here are some other remarks: "Andre Lemaire, a researcher at the Sorbonne in Paris and a respected specialist on inscriptions of the biblical period, calculated the statistical probability of the three names' occurring in such a combination as extremely slim" "It seems very probable that this is the ossuary of James in the New Testament," Lemaire wrote in the magazine article. "If so, this would also mean that we have here the first epigraphic mention -- from about A.D.63 -- of Jesus of Nazareth." Linda (Also P.S. to Shannon: I don't know what you have in mind, but another Christmas tune you might check out is "O Come, O Come, Emmanuel.") | ||
JAY |
Linda and Jim, Thank you Jim for your wonderful knowledge and great detail insight to this special mystery of James box. This was also in my mind when you mentioned that Peter did influence the people in the name change of Jmmanuel, I do feel some scholars who are highly knowledgeable about this do know Jmmanuel's name as the true name of the so called Jesus. This Jim will be great analysis and evidence for making sure that information of the Talmud stays well intact and not confused by those who will try and TRASH IT as a mere forgery. Thanks again for your great insight into this topic BE WELL Jim | ||
Jean Pierre Lagasse |
Hi all, Just a silly thought but... How many "names" does Billy have today? In a hypothetical situation, If almost all our present literature & documentation got trashed, in the future, there might be quite a debate on exactly what Billy's name really was... Regards, JP | ||
Jim Deardorff |
Yes indeed, JP. And as a curious afterthought, Asket told Billy, back in the 1960s, that he would be called "Billy" for a while, according to my recollection of the crude English version of a contact report, and then that he should go by the name Eduard at some later time (after 1975?). But he still goes by the name Billy as far as I know. Jim | ||
Jean Pierre Lagasse |
Hi Jim, Thanx for an Interesting bit of info for sure. Also, in some situations, the name Nokodemjon would perhaps fit better than his other "names". In the context of the above "hypothetical no documentation situation", that BEAM says he was NOT Jesus etc. would add to the confusion even more. Of course, when we read ALL that is available to us today, it becomes pretty obvious what is going on. Myself, looking at today's situation, & then "looking" back in time & comparing this to Jmmanuel's day, the so-called confusion over his name(s) is almost to be expected. It really makes me wonder what could have possibly been in the sections of the TJ that were destroyed. Just a few thoughts... Salome, JP | ||
Mark Campbell |
Hi Jim ; I have wondered about this for some time ; Do you know what the family name of Joseph , Mary , Jmmanuel and James was ? It seems kind of funny that this has never come up before . Most families do have last names , even in older times . Mark | ||
James the truthseeker |
One last name I've heard somewhere for Jmmanuel was "Ben-Joseph". Some believe that Joseph of Arimathea was also a relative of his. | ||
Lars |
Hi Linda Thanks for the notification on that archaeological finding, (Ossuary box} backing up the historicity of the man "YESHUA Ben Joseph" via James the brother of Jesus. I too saw that article in my paper as well and was simply amazed and delighted to hear of it. Yes , I think this artifact is an important piece of evidence which proves that the prophet from Nazareth was called and known as, Yeshua, but he also was seen and even called Immanuel by his disciples who studied and knew the prophecies. This is one reason why I don't buy the TJ argument that Jesus disciples were all ignorant and could'nt do hand writing. Matthew must have understood handwriting because he was a tax collector and must have been involved in writing lots of documents. Most Jews even the Galilean Jews were educated enough to read and write well. And It is a fact that most Jews are trained to excell in literary abilities. John the apostle was extremely literate and was the disciple closest to Jesus over all the others. the Idea that Judas Iscarioth was the closest is crazy beyond all imagination. I don't buy it. And this recent artifact finding tends to incriminate the TJ claims as misleading and not historical at all. while on the other hand it tends to justify the New testament accounts. Regards, Lars | ||
Edward |
Hi Linda, Hampton and All, Hampton, yes Congratulations with your new born child. Linda, it is based on Cancer reseacher which I once saw on a Television programa. And I must say...Hampton took all the words from my mouth! He has explained it as I have know it for some time now. So, I do Fully agree with him. And as Hampton has mentioned ...concerning the 'Gene-Pool is Limited'...he is very correct. The Jewish Orthodox(Fundamentalists) would surely like to Keep their Offspring "Pure" as they say it...as I have seen them say it in documentaries...and what I've read. Even Billy Mentions in his material...that Genes can "Wear-Out"..and than the consequences herefrom..would be Negative. So there is No Harm...In 'Up-Grading' the Genes...so every now and than...I would say. And Surely...there Is a Link...on How One Lives One's life..with...or without Religion. Human Beings...Living Closer...or with the Laws Of Nature and Creation...Live a Much Longer and Healthier life. I have seen people that 'Live One with Nature...and Creation'..live a more Longer and Healthier life. And the Ones that do Not do so..having all kinds of illnesses...and Cancer. Even as I can remember..it was also mentioned in Billy's material..that also because of Not living to the Laws of Nature and Creation the human beings on earth..live shorter. So I would Not be Surprised if there is a Link to Religion(s) also. Linda, you did read correct. There is just a Connection between One's Life-styl...and some sorts of illnesses...Not only Cancer. I would base this on Common-Sence and Logic...and it has been proven scientificly. So, I have made a analysis myself...and it adds-up to what those ancient Teachings/Philosophys..have mentioned in their teachings...for ages. So No-where is Cancer so Great...than in our Western Life-Styl.(and False Teachings...etc.) So it is very important that people be on time for check-ups..for their best will...and their Offspring. Some of us may know...Once the Cancer-cell(s) is inbodied...and One creates offspring...those same Cancer-cells...will Go Also. And so this Cycle goes...on and on...alas. There is an abundence of information based on scientific reseach..done World-wide. Edward. | ||
E. Visser |
Hi all. Basicly there are 2 forms of cancer.One is genetic,their in your gene package from the moment of conception.This doesn't mean however that the cancer will develop in ones lifetime.It can also lay dorment in ones entire life. Second is a developed cancer by outside source. Many factors can contribute to that type, malnutricion,substance abuse,radiation and so on. To say that religion or one particular form of religion is directly linked to cancer is farfetched.Our busy life styles in the West contribute far more to the possibilty of developing cancer than religion ever could. Regards, TerraX | ||
Norm |
That Box doesn't prove a thing! Its way after the distortions of Jmmanuel began. | ||
Hampton Hsien-Ting Chiu |
Hi Lars: I respect everyone's religion preference, I just want to point out some point following your religion's logic which contradict some logic in your post. As we discussed in previous post here, in Isaiah 7.14, your God, Jehovah said 'she(the virgin) will certainly call his name Immanuel', confirmed again in Isaiah 8.8, but in your post you said that 'he also was seen and even called Immanuel by his disciples who studied and knew the prophecies'. While your God said clearly 'Immanuel' will be the name given by the Mother, your post did not specify that, in fact, in NT, 'Jesus' is the name given at birth. So I assume you believe in NT more than OT, since in OT, 'Immanuel' is the name given at birth, not 'Jesus'. And as you pointed out in Isaiah 9.6, the meaning of the name given by Jehovah does not match the meaning of 'Jesus'. I think the name on the box further proves the discrepancy between OT and NT. Anyone can provide me a quote in Old Testament mentioning the name 'Jesus' or the meaning of the name 'God Saves'? How can we link 'Immanuel' with 'Jesus' between OT and NT? Any exact quote from Bible? Peace. Hampton Chiu | ||
Linda |
TerraX, Glad we're on the same page. I guess if we had "researched" as Edward claims to have done, we'd know what some television commentator had to say once upon a time ago. At least, as best as I can tell, that is his source of information for these claims. Edward, care to offer a specific written source reference? Otherwise, I remain very uncomfortable with the suggestion that Jews/Judaism causes defective genetic makeup. It smacks of "neo-Nazism," doesn't it? Linda | ||
Jean Pierre Lagasse |
Hi All, I am no genetics expert, but I have read accounts of how "mixing" certain races tend to produce certain health "problems" and/or certain characteristics. Also, particular races/(social groups) tend to have certain health problems... as well as peculiar (sometimes unique) characteristics. This is "Statistical Science" and should not be associated/confused with "Nazism", "Racism" etc. All the contributing factors/reasons for this are still not yet fully understood by our sciences, & for now, any "speculation" must remain in the realm of "possibilities only". Any Info from the Plejarens/Billy on this (& other topics) should be thoroughly examined & kept in mind as we all discover new facts. Any such info should be taken as "possibilities only", until we can verify these for ourselves. Only my opinion/viewpoint on this... Regards, JP | ||
Lars |
Hampton, Now let me ask you and others here a question; Why do you believe only in the Immanuel verses of Isaiah's book and not all of the rest of that books prophecies regarding the Saving Mission of the Messiah? No matter how you look at it Isaiah equates Immanuel with being an Incarnation of the mighty God and Eternal Father and a king who will have a dynasty on David's throne a Jewish throne, not a Palestinian or arab throne. Why is it then that you people are so quick to pick and choose only a few verses here and there, and then deny the rest of the predictions regarding Immanuel's mighty Messianic mission of salvation and Davidic kingship? don't you realize that you are denying the benefits derived from the crucifixion and atonement of the Savior? Daniel.9:26 reads "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, BUT NOT FOR HIMSELF" Hampton this verse demonstrates the activity the Messiah was to perform. that of sufferring and being cut off by crucifixion not for himself but for the sins of the people. Thus from this verse the name of YESHUA spoken by archangel Gabriel to Mary is clearly justified and logical. and is a logical fulfillment of this prediction by Daniel of Messiah's mission. Who'ever denies these predictions of Messiah's mission is "Anti-Messiah And do you really think that the Immanuel spoken of in these verses of Isaiah and Daniel would side with the Palestinians and curse his own Jewish people? Yes Hampton I believe equally in the OT and NT the NT completes and fulfils what OT before predicted regarding Messiah and Israel. Regards, Lars | ||
Linda |
Pierre, I'm not confused, just hyperbolic at times. It's a style of mine. I was offering an exaggerated response to what I perceive to be an exaggerated claim in this thread. If there is any scientific evidence for racial or "religious" links, especially, to certain illnesses, e.g. cancer, I would be happy to review it with all due consideration. I'm inclined to agree that was has been alleged is speculative only rather than factual. The "evidence" purported to come from some television commentator from some station from somewhere at some time, clearly does not constitute sufficient grounds for these claims. This is also just my opinion, Linda | ||
E. Visser |
Hi all. When different races or groups are mixed there are genetic defects?I never heard of that before. Quite the contrary.From a biological point of view it's healthy when different genes are mixed rather than similar ones.I realise that genetics is still a science that is growing in knowledge but some aspects just follow logic.Genetic defects arise when the gene poole is limited.A good example would be remote rural communities with few inhabitants where a form of inbreeding causes defects over time. To say that one race or group with sufficient numbers off people is geneticly defective is simply racist. Regards, TerraX | ||
Jean Pierre Lagasse |
Hi TerraX, When a horse is bred with a donkey, the offspring is not capable of reproducing. The generality of genetic diversity is true... but does not always produce "better results" in every case. Linda, I understand your reference now. Lars, "...you are denying the benefits derived from the crucifixion and atonement of the Savior?" The so-called "atonement" is a religious concoction (false concept) & does not exist. There is no "mystical" or "magical/religious" truth to "Salvation through the blood of Christ", or "Christ's cruxifiction saved our souls", or other such stuff. In my opinion, the originally intended concepts do have logical counterparts, which were falsified & added to, by the religious communities. In partly (outdated) "religious terms"... (perhaps a bad idea on this board), the "2nd coming" revealed the truth of these concepts, through the concepts Billy is bringing out today. As predicted, only the "very elect" will recognize this for what it is. Of course, everybody uses this to justify their own ideas, so this is a "meaningless concept"... among others. I was part of a religious (William Branham) group for a few years & could quote like the best of them. I eventually recognized that if "Creation" gave us a mind, then we are meant to use it... & I left this group. This allowed me to keep evolving, despite initial thoughts of "backsliding", not being a "son of god" etc. Conditioning, eh??? On hindsite, leaving this group was among the best moves I ever made. Regards, JP | ||
E. Visser |
Hi JP. Interesting comparison you made and the dynamic of that seems to be your argument.A horse and a donkey had perhaps one ancestory but due too evolution branched off into seperate species with genes altering slightly and not exactly the same anymore in relation to eachother. To say that this implies to the human race and that the different races on Earth are indeed seperate species is a rather dividing concept.I have no knowledge of mixed marriages producing infertile offspring.Genetics defects and diseases seem to affect every race on this planet. Regards, TerraX | ||
Jean Pierre Lagasse |
Hi All, "Genetic Risk Factor Identified for Lupus Kidney Disease in African Americans" http://www.niams.nih.gov/ne/press/1996/03_06.htm Please note the first few paragraphs... There are lots of things I've read & heard over the years, such as certain species of dogs having particular weakness, conditions etc. as well as particular races (& combinations thereof) also having certain conditions etc. Males get certain diseases women rarely get... & vice versa. I don't have any decent references handy, but the above link is the first example of this that I found, in a quick internet search. There is more where it came from. Regarding Hampton's Monday Oct 21, 2002 – 8:02 am (above) post : I have not looked into verifying what he said, but I've heard of this type of predisposition towards disease before, in other races. How this applies to the Jewish people, if it does, I don't know. TerraX, I giggled when I read your interpretation of my example... some of what you suggested had not occurred to me !! I like your posts... you have interesting ideas !!! Please understand, that I am not particularly interested in, nor did I wish to spend time debating or researching this issue. Am simply trying to be helpful & to "point" you (& others) into a direction to search into... from stuff I've read/heard. I think others in this string topic (above) were trying to do the same... (Also, we are off topic in this discussion... & I was trying to keep my comments short with an example I hoped I would not have to reference.) If you, or anybody else does look into this more properly, please let us know what you find !! Besides, perhaps I'm just being "mule-headed", eh? Please provide references... Hope this helps... Regards, JP | ||
Mark G |
Hi Linda, I believe what is important in Edwards post is that he stated that the Jews have the most SEVERE cancer than any group. I would like to know what show he watched that stated that though. If that is the case, it would be interesting to see how they came to that conclusion. This is no different than the blacks in America having twice the heart attacks than whites. Its not racist, its genetic in a lot of cases. ""If we look back in History...it Is..mentioned over and over..and All Over The World..that the 'Jewish People'... Spread...Like Cancer...over our World/Planet. And I must admit...it is Truely being Realized.."Letterly"! From the Findings mentioned above. For I will add..this is just a Majority of them. As we can Acknowledge..it is only a Minority...of these people that live with Truth to the Laws of Nature and Creation...as mentioned..by Jammanuel."" I don't think that the Jews are the only group not living up to Creations standards though. I think 99.999% of the world isn't and it shows everyday so I think that this statement by Edward is confusing or inaccurate. I don't think that the Jewish beliefs are any more false than the Christian/Muslim beliefs. They both have manipulated their people to enslave their minds. Yes some good teachings come from all sides but they are definetly out weighed by the BS. Knowing that, I think cancer will be greater in all of these religions since they don't teach the laws of Creation. In "And Yet They Fly" there is a good statment by Semjase on cancer and how it comes about. That, I believe, is where Edward got some of his info. | ||
Chris Frank |
Am I wrong here, or are we missing some sort of point about the "sacrifice"? When I ask people what this sacrifice is, they tell me that he died on the cross to save us. I feel that death, or the manner of it really is unimportant. However, when I read about him giving up his high level position in the Petale, will, that got me thinking a lot. I think I too could have given up my life and the manner of death probably would have really terrified me, but I could have done it as well. But I don't think I could have given up that position with the Petale to come back here to this planet and try to teach people. Therefore, I think that the real sacrifice was giving up that high position to teach the people of this planet for centuries. I don't know. It's just my opinion but I would be interested to hear what others think about it. Thank you Chris | ||
Aks |
Hello all! Interesting your topic. What do you think about the recently discovering of evidence about the existance of Jesus Christ and at least one of his brothers? Thanks. | ||
Jim Deardorff |
There's been a new development or new info regarding that ossuary inscription. But first, regarding the next-to-last message from Lars, in which he felt that the ossuary inscription goes against the TJ's genuineness, it needs to be mentioned that Saul/Paul was the man who insisted that his new Lord and "Son of God," after his conversion, be known as Jesus (or Joshua). His strong, direct influence was felt from around 40 A.D. until his death in the late 60s. So if the inscription had said "James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus," and is dated to around 63 A.D., this would likely reflect the fact that by then his name was mostly known as "Jesus" within the early churches, and no longer by Immanuel (Jmmanuel). However, the new info is that the words "brother of Jesus" are definitely written in a very different hand than the first part. And it was written by someone who was not adept at Aramaic writing and even made a misspelling. So now the suspicion is very strong that it was added perhaps even a century or two later to the ossuary. See: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/ james-bone-box.html Regards, Jim | ||
Lars |
Hi AK, I think that Ossuary box discovery is authentic and proof for the reality of the Messiah who fulfilled dozens of prophecies from the Psalms, Isaiah, and the prophets. And it only proves that the messiah was given the name of YESHUA and was seen and noticed as God with us or Immanuel. All of this argument and misleading false witness and evidence that there was no Messiah or Savior by the Plejarens and Figu is in my opinion a terrible mistake and deception, because all of the evidence from the Bible, archaeology, and the changed lives of millions of people throughout history proves that there is a Savior, and all the lying wonders and false witness given by fallen angels and even decieved extraterrestrials cannot put out or overthrow the truth. Because the Gates of Hell will not prevail against the people called out of darkness into the Light of the Messiah. Lars | ||
Hampton Hsien-Ting Chiu |
Hi Lars: I am willing to discuss the Bible with you, and I think it would help to clarify your and mine post if we all quote exact excerpt and chapter from either OT or NT. Basically I do not believe in current version of Bible, I think there are some major logic flaw, like the one I mentioned in previous post, and concept of reincarnation... But to discuss with you the logic in your post, I have to follow your logic, which is the Bible, that is why I try to quote from the Bible. As I said, I do respect all religion, but some religion has weaker logical foundation, others have stronger logical base, if the logic can flow through the Bible chapters with no question, then this religion has good logic foundation, vice versa. When I study Bible, I try to follow the logic in the book and chapters, I am not denying any 'prophecies regarding the Saving Mission of the Messiah', but who is Messiah? Immanuel? Jesus? Does Jesus mean the same person as Immanuel? That is my main question, and it is not just that I am picking some verse to against you, this is, I think, the keypoint to link the OT and NT. I guess my question to you is not answered. Peace. Hampton Chiu | ||
E. Visser |
Hi JP and all. Your statement that certain races on Earth have a particular illness is not unvalid.I just thought it was unreasonable to link such an illness to a religious group.We did stray a bit from that topic. Regards, TerraX | ||
Christian Frehner |
Hi Hampton, Regarding your question of October 17: No, Jmmanuel's teachings did not contribute to Buddhism's reincarnation concept in India. Regards, Christian | ||
Edward |
Hi Linda and All, Linda this has Nothing to do With what you call "Neo-Nazism" or what every One can come up with. And as Jean Paul has made very clear also. "It Is Indeed...Surely Based on Scientific Research." Linda it was on a Talk Show...that was About...Jewish Cancer Research...and Concerning the Jewish Population. They also came to conclusion of these Facts...and made acouple of epos concerning this topic. So All over the world...Other Researchers have come up with the Same Conclusions. So, It is Not only watching this program that I was Aware of these Facts...because...I have come across them in the past. Just as I mentioned of the Old Teachings/Philosophies..That if One Lives "ONE" with Nature...And....Creation... One's Existance..Will Be a "Balanced"...Lifestyl. And if One would Not do so...Well..we can look around us. If you read Billy's Material...you can also Acknowledge...Billy...and The Teachings of the Spirit is also "Directed" in this Direction. To Live "ONE" with Nature and Creation. Living in a True and Orderly manner. I would say Mark G., is very clear also. With his Posting... Understanding How I mean it. I have known of his Comparison with the Black people concerning the heart-attachs. Ofcourse..Surely...Other Religions/Faiths have a Hand. Without a Doubt. And Yes, it does mention in AYTF...Mark has done his reading very Wise also. Ofcourse Too Much Sun Tanning...Is Not Good, Too Much Rediations Is Not Good...Too Much Meat...Is Not Good either ....Too Much Bier drinking is Not Good...Too Much Of Everything that is good...is Not good for us...We can go so on. These Contribute to Cancer also. But in a "Material Manner". But I am merely saying...If One "Pollutes" Once's Spirit.. there will Surely be a "Reistence" because it is Not ONE with it's UR-Source..which we call "Nature and Creation". So if One Pollutes...One's Spirit...It Will Automatically... relate to it's Body. And Consequences will Arise herefrom. I would Think...This Is..very Logic. So...Linda...We may not see Eye to Eye on this but Please.. this has Nothing to do with "Neo-Nazism"..or what ever. Again...it is just Based on World-Wide Scientific Research (Done by their Own People and others). Edward. | ||
Norm |
Everybody Lars, believes it (The Box, Christ, Etc.) whether we like it or not, there's is no room left for discussion with him! He ignores the posts he can not challenge. Jesus is the Anti-Jmmanuel! Jmmanuel is the Truth, Jesus is destruction of the Truth, Jesus & Anti-Christ are the same! All along these Christians have been following the Anti-Jmmanuel! Let me write it in a way Christians & Lars can understand. Satan changed Jmmanuels name to Jesus Christ! | ||
Lonnie Morton |
Hi Norm and everyone, Yes, I too am getting tired of seeing the same false religious teachings REPEATEDLY promoted on this forum by someone that simply refuses to reason things out. This can go on and on without end, unless it is put to an END now. We are supposed to be making positive and stimulating comments that helps one another gain valuable knowledge by discussing FIGU teachings and related information. This forum should not be used as a PLATFORM to negatively influence others with religious thinking over and over. I for one had my fill of this nonsense during the many years I was a bible student and Christian minister, so I will not discuss something that I KNOW has a negative effect on our consciousness. It is UNTHINKABLE to preach these teachings on this forum or even to talk about them privately. These teachings are taught in the churches of Christendom every day. We DON'T NEED to continually and repeatedly hear these lies. Looking back, it was a period of total stagnation. Anyone who wants to truly develop their spirit and continue their evolution MUST first learn to THINK and REASON on the spiritual teachings. Anyone who does not want to think and reason and who does not RESPECT the teachings is OUT OF PLACE posting religious dogma on this forum with the intent to try and CONVINCE others to believe. This is self defeating and goes against all that the FIGU stands for. Regards, Lonnie | ||
Linda |
Lonnie, It seems to me, then, that FIGU should dissallow this topic area of "religion," and create the topic of "relegeon." I personally am not in favor of that solution, as I find some postings very informative, Jim Deardorff's in particular, especially since he is a recognized biblical scholar. This area, by its own name, is "Non-Figu Related," so at this point no one is really out of line by not sticking to "Figu teachings and related information." It seems that some "official" action should be taken in this regard. Sincerely, Linda | ||
Norm |
Linda, The problem is Lars preaching his Christianity. Most of us are not here to be preached too! Most here have left their Christianity behind, for good! Lars you are not going to convert us to your views! | ||
Michael |
I think Norm hit the nail on the head. This is preaching, it's completely non-responsive to legitimate questions and reasoning. It's speculative as opposed to factual, based in beliefs rather than knowledge and completely fails to meet the higher standard of proof. It is parroting rather than probing and, as I once offered before, a parrot is not a prophet. Heck, a parrot isn't a pizza either, it's just a parrot. I have voluntarily stopped interacting with parrots...except for the ones with pretty feathers. Michael | ||
Mark Campbell |
Isn't this thie christian religious promotion area ? I thought that this part of the forum was for that specifically . Here , we all can get to know the opinion of "those who would protect the beleif" , and get preached to with religious dogma and rhetoric over and over again . And , after the opinion is given repeatedly , it is given again , with more extremism as before . Evidently this is allowed to be , although I agree with Lonnie . Being fair to the opposing opinion is considered honorable , but to what end ? Maybe the repetitive arguments can be edited ? I think I get it now . By seeing the same irrational comments in support of religion posted here , the weaknesses in it are exposed . A method to the madness ? May-be . Mark | ||
Linda |
Norm, The simple solution is this: Don't read Lars' (or anyone's) posts if they bother you that much! I have to give Lars the right of freedom of religion and freedom of expression in a country such as ours that upholds those basic constitutional guarantees. Whether or not this website chooses to do that is entirely up to FIGU, it seems. Also, I cannot in all honesty say that I've left my personal understanding of Christianity behind for good, because I think there are some things about Christianity that are for good. I'm not about to be "converted" to anything except through my own thinking and time frame. On the flip side, some forum members can "preach" all they want about FIGU teachings but simply must allow others to ingest information in their own time and own way. Linda | ||
Norm |
Linda, this forum is owned by FIGU, its run by their rules, not the Constitution of the USA! | ||
Linda |
Norm, That's exactly my point. This issue is entirely up to FIGU, isn't it? Linda | ||
Lars |
Hi Norm and all, Norm, you stated that Satan changed Jmmanuels name to Jesus Christ I thought Figu believed that Satan and fallen angels did'nt exist? 2ND. Iam not trying to convert you to my views, what Iam doing is demonstrating by the Holy scriptures themselves just how untenable and inconsistent is the premise and argument the Plejarens use that the gospels of the NT cannot be relied on and were falsified. I have shown that the prophecies of all the prophets give witness to the Messiah who is a Savior and a King and not some mock up prophet who would like to relish and bask in the honour and glory of the holy scriptures yet deny the vital import and fulfillment of those scriptures! So far from not answering your questions, I have answered them completely and have proven that none of you can adequately refute the logic of the holy prophesies which were fulfilled in the Messiah, nor can you even attempt to do so without making yourselves look ridiculous. You people are all held captive in darkness on some issues, and you cannot see these issues clearly because you are wandering in pitch blackness! "If the blind lead the blind, they shall both fall into a ditch" You can fancy yourselves smart and think that there are no errors in any of what the Plejarens have said, but I can assure you that there are errors in what they have stated and it shall not go unoticed nor unreproved. That being said though does not dismiss the fact that the Plejarens do exist and are a piece of the cosmic puzzle which contributes to the whole in some way,just how fully? is alone known by the Infinite Wisdom. It is written in Isaiah.29:24 "They also that erred in judgment shall come to understanding, and they that rebelled and grumbled shall learn instruction." Salaam, Lars | ||
Linda |
Hi Edward, You are correct. We don't exactly see eye-to eye, but let me attempt to parse your posts as a three-fold argument with which I can agree and disagree: 1) Genetic makeup, either within an individual or a population of people, has the tendency to create illness or wellness. I am able to agree with the essence of this statement as there appears to be sufficient scientific evidence to support it. 2) Religions("false teachings" as you call them), e.g. Christianity, Islam, or Judaism contribute to an individual's or a population's illness. I disagree as there does not appear to be any scientific evidence to support this claim. 3) Living "one with Nature and Creation, or the Ur-Source," avoids the pollution of one's spirit and logically creates wellness. I am unable to agree with the statement as it is an unclear, vague rhetoric which you use repetitously and which is presently unsupported by any scientific evidence I am aware of or that you have adequately cited. Where I got uncomfortable was when you lumped arguments #1 and #2 together as, for example, Jews/Judaism. I was additionally uncomfortable with your only real source citation that could not be researched by the rest of us, e.g. the television talk show. Edward, it would be truly helpful in the future if you would cite written references or provide links to the claims you make. That will protect you from sounding authoritative and give the rest of us an opportunity to check out the sources for ourselves. Thanks, Linda | ||
Lars |
Norm, Ok Norm, we shall see if that prophet I worship and am grateful for is non-existent... We shall see if He is non-existent when He suddenly soon returns as lightning in the clouds and utterly devours and destroys all the enemies of the Israeli nation! we then shall see what becomes of those who now ridicule and deny Him! and seek to hurt his people. The battle lines are being drawn. you will be either for Messiah or you will be against Him. Just make sure that you are not cheering for the enemies of Israel when the judgment starts in Jerusalem by the hand and prophesy of the prophet Elijah returned.who is coming again to prepare the way for the Messianic Majesty "YESHUA of Nazareth". I can assure you that if you are still obstinate then and siding with Israel's enemies you are going to be made very uncomfortable. Take heed! | ||
Lars |
Norm Your unbelief shall not make the truth of the Creator, Yahweh Elohim Zabaoth disappear and be of no consequence! the entire earth is about to recieve an object lesson from it's Maker and Keeper. As far as me waiting a long time for the events i told you above? It will not be that long, because the Jews are being pressured and attacked by Her enemies, this shall not be allowed to go on idefinitely, Because the Creator has pledged Himself to that people as to no other! If all of the prophecies spoken by the mouths of the prophets regarding Israel in the land and the Messiah's appearing don't fulfill themselves, then the Bible is indeed a falsified book, written by false prophets. But history, archaeology and countless changed lives all prove the Bible's accuracy and truthfulness. | ||
Mark G |
Hi Lars, You are confusing me Lars.. What do you mean when you say..."The Jews are being pressured and attacked by her enemies????" I would like to know where they are being attacked and how? The Jews are being no more attacked than the American Indians, Blacks, Irish, Africa People, Muslims, Chinese and believe it or not, poor white people in general... When are you going to realize that all religion has done is divide and conquer you and everyone else in the world, just like politics? You say...""Just make sure that you are not cheering for the enemies of Israel when the judgment starts in Jerusalem by the hand and prophesy of the prophet Elijah returned.who is coming again to prepare the way for the Messianic Majesty "YESHUA of Nazareth". I can assure you that if you are still obstinate then and siding with Israel's enemies you are going to be made very uncomfortable."" Im interested in where you live Lars?? Why do you feel the need to back Israel so badly when both Israel and Palestine are acting like insane idiots. Both sides are taking innocent lives and are too stupid to reason due to their barbaric religious faith. Religion has had 2500+ years to cure the hell on earth and not one to date has done so, including the Jewish faith. Instead of trying to prove passages from the Jewish, Catholic faiths that were most likely falsified, mis translated, etc... I think the real question is why hasn't ANY religious faith provided peace on earth??? That should be the question we all ask ourselves... Sincerely, Mark G | ||
Aks |
Hi Norm, Lars and everybody else! I think you're over acting. I believe there's a terrible confusion between both believes just because of taking everything so literal! I think someone called Jesus, Yeshua, Immanuel or however YOU wish to call him was instructed, intended or designed to give us some teaching to guide us someway. Unfortunately, mankind and all Religious FANATICS have made up another kind of SAVIOUR (degenerate truth) that of course wasn't saving anyone, simply orienting people in order to be saved by themselves. Now, there are some proves he existed. But we don't know for certain if he was intended to act as THE GREAT ALLMIGHTY that people believe. what I mean is that all have created a circus, a whole world surrounding him, placing all their believes in someone that had no explanation, that was a whole miracle alive, that was, let's say, PERFECT. But unfortunately, we're humans, and we're not perfect and we make a lot of mistakes. We exagerate something when we like it. We overact when something causes us fear. And fear is the most terrible weapon against us. We don't know for certain that Jeshua had all the things that we made up of him, but some have faith and if their faith is gone they'll be for a great great time hopeless, despairing and vulnerable. So let's leave Lars with his believes, and let's leave all of us with ours, up to the point when everybody can see exactly what the TRUTH is. Noone can force anyone to believe what they of course don't wanna listen, AND THAT IS FOR ALL OF US! Write your opinions as you've done. Give information you consider important to share. But please! if you begin insults or offenses you'll get to nowhere and you'll be distressed and perturbed emotionally, too. And that's no gain for nobody of course!! So let's talk calmy and without threats ;o) | ||
Materiah |
I agree with lars, we have to recognize that we are just "minut-piece" of creationm, we will all fulfill the plan of God. Jesus is given all might on earth, and e will judge us on the last day. Just make the right choice, will you please! Life is good when we won't have to intelectualize our problems into spirituality. Don't forget that anti-christ is a murderer, and the spirit of anti-christ is deceptive and misleading. I think Billy must have recognized this, but probably were to proud to admit his contacts were in the end just a combination of lies and satanic manifestations. Put all your trust and love in the saviour, and he will show you what its all about. Love is all you need | ||
Marc Juliano |
Okay, well this topic area is certainly lively. First of all, this topic - as Linda correctly stated - is Non-FIGU Related. This means that the discussion can venture outside the bounds of FIGU-only teachings, concepts, books, etc., and cover the subject matter on a more general, mainstream level. But... the purpose of this ultimately is to allow discussion and perhaps even respectful debate, if required, that helps in the understanding of FIGU and their teachings and philosophies. Otherwise, this board may just as well be an Internet catch-all forum for miscellanea. In the end, everything must relate to the purpose of this discussion board. It's obviously necessary for one to state their opinions and back them up with what they have come to know as the truth on a particular matter. But it's not desirable at all for people to post considerable amounts of text from their own belief systems simply to advertise their way of thinking to the public without necessarily addressing the opposing question or issue. The point must be to directly address the questions or issues as logically as possible. Of course this may be more difficult for some to do than others. I think it would behoove everyone posting in this forum to think about and apply the advice given in TJ 19:16-20. Those of you who are getting "fed up" with a certain kind of rhetoric may need to just leave the discussion and post on a different topic elsewhere instead of trying to convince the other person that they're wrong in their thinking and/or trying to get the last word in - both of which only elicit a stronger opposing stance. Anyone who does not want to talk about Religion, but has problems accepting any of the FIGU material as being authentic may need to formulate a (mature, respectable) post in the Skeptic's Corner corner section. I also still see people posting one-liners that, in themselves, serve no purpose whatsoever to the topic. If you want to chat, go to a chat forum. Your posts need to count here and contribute to the understanding of the topic. I don't know how many different ways this could be stated, but when necessary, accounts will start being moved to a queued status to help jar the memory a bit. Regards, Marc Juliano Moderator | ||
Mark Campbell |
Greetings Aks ; Thanks for your thoughful and clear post . It was a breath of fresh air . It's only a person's will to conform everyone else that makes him or her constantly press their views . If a beleif is so peaceful , they wouldn't have to go a defend and promote it . In the case of Billy's message , it's different . It's the correction of a message gone horribly mad . As a result of religious self-righteousness , billions of people have died at the hands of opposing religious groups . This has not changed . I am starting to think that those who are religiously bent in the direction of one religion or another , prefer war ; as a means of accomplishing their beloved revelations prophesies and all destructions . Buddhism is the exception to this , as far as I know . In a dramatic flurry , they proclaim their beleif in a loud and overbearing voice ( or they use BOLD TYPE ) and await that which serves noone but their obsessive need to be right , which will not be satisfied . But I digress ........is everyone having a good day ? Live today to the fullest , and don't be heavy . Smiles , Mark | ||
JAY |
Lars, The fact of the matter is this, the Jews, Muslims and all religions which support the ridiculousness of these hoaxes is all coming to light.. THEY ARE ALL KILLING THEMSELVES. As you can see Lars, FIGU members here are at peace with one another as group of one and we do help each other out in matters of life and creation if we can depending of area of expertise. We do not point fingers at each other like all these so called RELIGIONS do and destroy and disassociate ourselves as separate humans who think they are the only chosen few in the whole planet. The record of time speaks for itself in matters of these religions. "CREATION and not the Creator" will eliminate its disease in its own time, and it is sure coming slowly but surely as the mission of any Logical thinking group can see. The time of the old ages has ended (the past 2 milleniums), now the new era for our mental, spiritual as well as scientifical is rising and the conciousness of the planet will change in its gradual ways. | ||
Hampton Hsien-Ting Chiu |
Hi Lars, Materiah and all, Is there logic in religion? I think there is, in each religion. Every religion has its own logic structure and philosophy foundation. It is fine for Bible to depict all 'prophecies regarding the Saving Mission of the Messiah', 'original sin', 'Judgement Day' or 'Heaven and Hell' concept, these logic can not be confirmed since they either will happen beyond death or will happen in the future. In Buddhism, there are similar myth too, I use Buddhism because I am more familiar with, and it is the Chinese/Taiwanese version of Buddhism, may be a little different than the India/Tibet version since it has been more than two thousand yeas of evoluation in East Asia. Buddhism's myth is that there are heavan and hell, especially hell. There are eighteen levels of hell, the guilty one will be assigned to different level according to the crime he/she committed in last incarnation, after unspecific period of time, both spirit in heavan and hell will/can reincarnate. These concept, also is hard to examine or confirm, thus we can not verify the logic. But at least there is no major logic flaw in those concepts including 'God send his son to save us'. But it is illogical when OT mentioned one name, Immanuel, will be given at birth, and in NT another name, Jesus, is given at birth, unless we all agree they are talking about two different persons.(Please see my previous post for source) It is illogical that Jesus later in NT talked about 'John the Baptist is Elijah' in Matthew, which implying concept of reincarnation, and nowadays church reject the idea of reincarnation, and there are a lot of church preachings based on eternal life in heavan or hell, with no reincarnation concept. It is not illogical, but very unusual that God in Christian/Catholic changed mind so often, such as to worship Ark(which is an idol) and sacrafice with animal in OT, then have new rules in NT does not require worship idol nor sacrafice animal. I am not saying Messiah concept is illogical, since I can not verify that, I can not say Buddhism's eighteen levels of hell is illogical, because I can not comment on event after death. But Lar and Materiah, don't you think the questions I raised here deserve you to think? Then we look back to Mr. Meier's teaching, so far I did not find any illogical or contradicting events, but I do reserve a tiny doubt in his teaching, since there are billions of gallaxy out there, and this teaching is mainly from one race. All I can say is Mr. Meier's case is more logical than Christian Bible, and it is the closest teaching to truth so far in my personal experience. Peace. Hampton Chiu | ||
James the truthseeker |
Greetings everyone, Perhaps the best thing we can all ask ourselves and everyone else is; "How do you like your Jesus"?? Do you like him on a cross or on a throne? Perhaps as lightning in the clouds or as a preacher on a mount? Will that be with or without bread and wine to go on the side? Muslims like him as a prophet. Many Christian sects actually like him in their own different ways as Mormons like him in America. If your Essene, you may like him as "Yeshua". Perhaps you may like him as a savior, and thus he is your hero fighting off all the forces of evil. Now isn't that one for Hollywood to persue? I tend to like my Jesus as "original" as possible, so I will refer to him here as "Jmmanuel". I also like the idea of Jmmanuel associated with wisdom, peace and UFOs. Now that's even more cool then "Star Trek" because it's far beyond science fiction to the point where it's way beyond many peoples ideas & thinking and that's OK becasue that's what makes it all so good to the taste. Now isn't that just far out?! Peace, James the truthseeker | ||
JAY |
Hi All, I think as mentioned, religion is long past and done, I'm living in the year of the 20th and 21st centuries and I do feel that religion is not on my experience in this day and time. Since I find the the facts and experiences of the Meier case to be under the umbrella of my time and existence, this is what I shall feel is to be the facts and reality. The PLEJARANS have spoken of Jmmanuel and they have been here speaking, sitting and talking to Meier for the past 50 or more years. This is my reality and facts about what we shall understand and if the Past 2000 yrs show some hoaxed or factual information the new Testament or old then the PLEJARANS deserve plenty of credit for clarifying much of this watered down versions of Bibles and religions of spirituality such and such. Don't we agree on this?? We must move on to the next level and see our world for what it is. Scriptures have not done the job physically, mentally and especially spiritually to solve the ills of our world. This is where Michael Horn leaves off as The PLEJARANS have spoken of many of the things which have come to pass so far and more. Is all going to be part of where humans may disolve for themselves the altered information which has become culture and religion will be replaced for True Knowledge, Logic and creational Science. This has been predicted in the TALMUD by Jmmanuel as being the case in a not too far distant future. | ||
Lonnie Morton |
Hi Marc, I agree with you 100%. I am sure even the original moderator could not have been more pertinent with these reminders. As you said: "The purpose of the "Non FIGU" related section is to allow discussion and perhaps even "respectful debate," if required, that helps in understanding of FIGU and their teachings and philosophies. This is what most of us here have known since the inception. It would be worthwhile if all participants of this forum would observe these and other guidelines so that this forum does not degenerate to a "catch all" or an atmosphere where no substance is established. Unfortunately, the freedom of expression that we have here for discussions has, in my opinion, been abused in this section. Certain individuals have consciously and deliberately tried to negatively influence others with religious teachings to the point where it has dominated this entire forum and taken up valuable disc space with nothing gained for anyone. In contrast, when you look at the German forum, even though there are fewer posts, the discussions are of a higher quality than ours. They have mentioned some things about religion as do the FIGU writings and teachings themselves, but...only in a way that helps us understand the more important information. They don't even have a section on religion on their forum. If they don't need it, then why do we? Could this be another example of how the "subconscious" of this country effects everyone, even honest and sincere FIGU members and others who really respect the teachings? Perhaps this section should be closed down so we can concentrate on improving the quality of this forum for all. Kind regards, Lonnie | ||
Lars |
Hello Mark G You asked me where and how are the Jews of Israel being pressured and attacked? They are being pressured and attacked indirectly and directly by the Palestinian jihad groups as well as from most arab states. these arabs do not recognize nor concede that state of Israel has a right to exist in Palestine, due to the 1948 war for Israel's statehood, which Israel won fare and square with the odds stacked way against them! The arabs refuse to peaceably concede, and all of their richer arab state neighbors do not even help start and build a strong Palestinian nation, they do'nt do it... They could do this ,but they do not. Could someone please tell me why? I back Israel because she has the right to exist as a state and national culture, like any other race has that right. Also I back Israel because the holy prophesies predict Israel will return to that land and flourish and a Davidic messiah-King will appear to finally straighten out the mess of earth's religions and cultures, this has all been predicted by the great prophets Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Daniel. I agree with you that religions and in particular a certain fake christianity has greatly fouled and messed things up on earth, and the original truths taught by that Son of David got clouded over, and neglected for the vain things of only the material order. Now it must be said and seen that all religions carry some good and some evil things in them, or should I say carry evil things in a indirect kind of way. But all religions serve a purpose to help stable mankinds attention so it can be brought face to face with the inescapable laws of nature and natures Maker. For without any religions or threats and warnings from prophets in touch with Deity the world and it's peoples would live by the rule of "Lex talionis" we would all be devouring each other as wild beasts! under such a rule the underdevloped poor peoples would be wiped out as not fit to exist! It is sad but true as well as peculair that people like to criticise , ridicule and judge the Christian religion as if it were the greatest horror ever to happen for mankind; while they completely forget and overlook , that it was Christian people that started hospitals and shelters for the sick, and the poor-underveloped ones! The Red Cross in America was started by devout Christians who cared about humanitys ills and suffering. Why hasn't any relgious faith provided peace on earth? religions have provided peace on earth unto those who are sincere and embrace the higher verities. those who are not yet ready to fully embrace and practice the eternal verities, wander away like lost sheep and get attacked and eaten by wolves. Peace as of now is something internal, the Messiah when he was slain on the cross and resurected provided peace by his exemplary life and showed us just how far LOVE will go to help it's creatures understand things, Immanuel, was incarnated to show us the eternal verities. Salaam Aleikhem, Lars | ||
Hampton Hsien-Ting Chiu |
Hi Lars: So are you saying Jewish has a license to kill if Arab people is not willing to peacefully render their land to Jewish people? I think any form of killing except when your own life is threatened, is a crime. When a Palestine boy was killed because he throw stone at Jewish tank, that is a crime. When any Palesine suicide bomber take innocent civilian lives with him/her, that is a crime. Thoughout thousands of years, because of a promise from your 'God', millions of people died. Biblical right, is that the right Jewish people claimed they have to build more settlement in West Bank? Is that the right they claim they could kill any one if they are not willing to render their land peacefully? If that is ture, the whole Bible is soaked with blood, Buddhism never provoke to kill anything, they are all vegetarian. You can believe whatever you want peacefully, but when anyone actually stab a knife into other people's body, or pull the trigger and shot other people to death because of Biblical right, then I think there are something wrong with this religion, either Jewish or Muslim. Any Jewish people thank Hilter? Without him, there will never be state of Isreal. Peace. Hampton Chiu | ||
Edward |
Hi Linda... I guess we both may not Read the Same book(s)...but it's ok with me.This does not matter. I can not remember what the documentary was called...those things I never remember...and it was some years back. It just Happened to be on..and so I watched it. Only that epo. And some time later on..I happened to watch CNN's Larry King Show...and it was also about Cancer...and this Same Topic Came-Up(Sever Cancer types Within the Jewish Population)... and he even made Clear to the tv-viewers...to get a regular Cheack-up. I do not have a "PHD"..or what ever One may call it...but I think I'm going fine. Not bad for a "Dropout"...I would say. I have done very much reading and Studying And Research and Also looked at good Documentaries...etc..concerning a Broad of topics. I think...you would do the Same as I...Come to a Conclusion for what for topic whatsoever...and that would Stand for you...after Thorough Investigation...if you will. And if That Stands for You..I Will Respect that...as I would like this also...for myself. So, it is Verified to you and Stands. If One does not agree...So be It. We All have this. We All have Walked another Knowledge Path..and Still Learning...and DisLearning. So, if One Accepts...Fine. If Not..we should take this as it is also. So, if my Source of information is not Alined with One's...We Both will just have to Acknowledge this. I am All Open for "Corrections"...We all should be. We All should keep the "Misunderstandings" out of our way. From Blocking our Learning Path. I think you do not know this...but I have European/Jewish lineage from one side of the family(who Acknowledge this but Not Practising it) and other European and Asian in myself. And I Feel Great! "The Best of All Worlds" I once said. And it is..I can asure you. So..Please...No..."Neo-Nazism"..and what ever else. This is definitely 'Jumping The Conclusions'. I just do Not...."Suck Tales Out Of My Tumb"...as they say here. And if I came across to you as being 'Authoritaive'..well..All I can say is your definitely 'Jumping The Conclusions' again. They have a saying here: "If you say it..that is what you are yourself." If you can give anyone an answer to a posted question.. better then me...Please do so. I am just trying my best to Help out here. That is all. I will tell you the Truth...I had the Feeling for sometime someone was going to say this to me! Out of Pure Jealousy or just Pure Ignorance. So, I am not surprised! But I will just let these tpye of people and their comments...Pass me bye. So, If one does not like the postings anyone posted....One should indeed..."Pass it bye". As someone has also mention here...I Fully Agree. If One can Not answer it(Passively)..."Pass it byeeee". You should Do More Reading and Research and Study...in "World Religions...and it's History"(as I have). Take a Wide and Open Mind to this and than You may Also come to Conclusion...of True Facts. Linda...Do Not Look 'One-Sided'. Here's when the People Get Lost. (Nothing personal..ok.) Surely....The Truth Hurts...very much. We should Not go Stabbing eachother in the back...here. We are all here for Answers...and to help eacother out. Atleast this is my assumption. BTW: this is my last posting for this week. I have a patron..posting 2-3 times...one week..and than...take a week off. Some of you may have noticed this? Just to Make Room/Space for others to do their postings. Edward | ||
Linda |
Hi Edward, First of all, let there be peace among us! I agree it does none of us any good to "stab each other in the back." In my last post to you, I was sincerely trying to understand your arguments and respond accordingly. I hope you saw that I essentially conceded to your argument #1 and have been doing some internet research on the subject. When I come up with something truly relevant, I will post it here. Initially, I was responding to language that implied that Jewish people were "superlatively defective genetically," hence my exaggerated response, which I fear has deeply offended you, so please accept my apologies. That's why at one point I asked if I was reading you correctly, and you replied that I was. Please also try to understand that when I used the word "authoritative," it was not out of jealousy or ignorance. I was attempting to reinforce what is a more or less a written rule on the forum to back up claims with some source citation. As for not always seeing eye-to-eye with anyone, I say let us agree to disagree. I think we've accomplished all we can at this point. Peace, Linda | ||
E. Visser |
Hi all. I think this topic area has been illumenating in its dynamic and certainly not fruitless from an antropology point of view. If I can make an analogy.It's like debating art.If the different belief systems in the world would represent paintings by different artists.The conversation would go something along the lines off this;"I love this Rembrandt",another person "I love this VanGogh,that Rembrandt overthere? That isn't art!" By this simple comparison I wanted to show you that believing is like having a preference and every person is free to choose but should respect anothers choice. Regards, TerraX | ||
Hampton Hsien-Ting Chiu |
Hi Mr. Visser: Totally agree, only if we are not killing people in the name of religion. Everyone should have total freedom to choose what they believe, to say what they believe, but not to kill people if they disagree on religion or because their religion 'allow' or 'destine' to kill people when their 'religious right' is violated. Hampton Chiu | ||
E. Visser |
Hi Hampton. On that point you get no argument from me. Regards, TerraX | ||
Hampton Hsien-Ting Chiu |
Hi Edward and Linda: Just a thought about how disease related to a person's spiritual development as Edward mentioned in previous post. I remember reading in a contact note that Ptaah said how fast the Mad Cow disease will develope within one's body is related to that person's spiritual development. Please note this is not exact quote, but if you want, I will try to find out the exact quote and what contact note number. Of course, our science is not able to verify whether Ptaah is telling the truth or not, but so far he did not tell us anything wrong, maybe hiding some truth from us, so I think it is probably true statement. Peace. Hampton Chiu | ||
Jean Pierre Lagasse |
Hi all, I asked my Mother if she ever had heard of the name Jmmanuel used instead of Jesus... She said that all the religious christmas carols & songs used the name Jmmanuel. Both in French & English...(?!?!?) I have not checked this out yet... but I plan to do so. If anybody has any more info on this, it might be interesting to compare notes. It would be interesting also to find out where & when these songs originated. Perhaps some of them predate our "written records"??? Some of you would know that the "spoken word" is used in some cultures to record history. Perhaps our "old songs" have captured a part of this particular history??? Makes me wonder what else our "old songs" would say... Of course, this is pure speculation on my part, at this time. Oh by the way, Mother is a devout catholic & although she "tolerates" my involvement with the Meier info, she has absolutely nothing to prove for or against. Regards, JP | ||
Savio |
Hi JP I also asked many of my Christian/Catholic friends about the name of the Savior, yes, they "all" know the name Jmmanuel! There is no exception, it is becasue the name is printed inside the OT and it is within the songs they sing in Christmas time. Hence they all acknowledge the Savior = Jmmanuel = Jesus Christ. However, when I ask "When the Lord said so clearly that the name of the Savior is Jmmanuel, how dare someone named him Jesus when he was born?" "And according to history, this Lord demanded absolute obedience... else chaos ...." NO one can give me a reasonable answer ..... Regards Savio | ||
Linda |
Hello Pierre and Savio, Of course, Christians are familiar with both names, as they are clearly presented in the gospels. I think Jim Deardorff's explanation of Paul's changing or influencing early Christianity to call this historical figure "Jesus" rather than "Jmmanuel" is clear and I refer you to his posts above. As for Christmas songs and music, one of the most classical pieces is Handel's "Messiah," a portion of which references the Old Testament book of Isaiah and the coming of "Emmanuel, God with us." Another piece that I've been partial to (only because it is in a minor key, which I happen to appreciate in music) is "O Come, O Come, Emmanuel" which, according the book I have, is from the Latin, twelfth century. It's refrain is: Rejoice! Rejoice! Emmanuel shall come to thee, O Israel! If you wish, I can post the three verses. You will note that the spelling of "Jmmanuel" is "Emmanuel." Sincerely, Linda | ||
Linda |
Hello Hampton, Yes, I'm curious to know exactly what Ptaah had to say regarding the relationship of mad cow disease and a person's spiritual development. If you are able to locate the exact quote and contact number, I think that would be highly beneficial to our discussion. I truly appreciate your willingness to cooperate with the issue I've been hammering away at, i.e. supportive evidence. This information will apply to Edward's argument #2, if I have correctly (and I do mean "correctly") parsed his posts. It will be interesting to me if Ptaah defines "spiritual development" or in any way suggests a relationship with this illness due to "false teachings," (possibly religiously based), which is how I understand Edward's thinking. In the meantime, I am working on research on argument #1 as I understand it. This is becoming a very interesting discussion! Sincerely, Linda | ||
Michael |
The following is taken from the 249th contact which occurred on Monday, June 13th, 1994, 11:36 p.m., regarding what we commonly refer to as Mad Cow Disease. Note the temperatures Ptaah refers to as being necessary to destroying the disease-causing prions. An internet search will reveal that our scientists are raising their own estimates upwards perhaps to soon arrive at these temperatures themselves. ( For a recent story see: http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99992939 ) Ptaah: You are talking about the Gerstmann-Sträussler-Syndrome. Every mammalian life form can be infected by it, and its source is scrapie or BSE, respectively. The epidemic can be either hereditary or transmitted through bloody saliva in the same way AIDS is transmitted, and through specific external contacts with items such as feces, blood and meat, as well as the ingestion of infected meat, etc. Whoever claims or questions that contamination from the BSE epidemic, i.e., the Creutzfeld-Jakob-Syndrome and Kuru, cannot be transmitted to humans, and that the Gerstmann-Sträussler-Syndrome cannot be traced back to BSE and scrapie with mammals, must be considered an irresponsible criminal and villain with contempt for human beings. We have 100 percent proof and absolute certainty, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that the correlations and causes of the disease are based on the data about which I have just informed you. It is also worth mentioning that BSE pathogens cannot be destroyed simply by cooking the meat and other items, or by producing meatmeal. They can only be destroyed by high temperatures, as high as 700°C (1228°F), and possibly even up to 1000°C (1768°F), for previously mutated pathogens that have existed for some time now. The incubation period for the disease also varies and must be determined by the life form's resistance to it. This may vary from 3 months to 40 years, even 50. The higher the evolution of the life form, the longer the incubation period. Therefore, with human beings it can range from 40 to 50 years. | ||
James the truthseeker |
Greetings Michael and others , A few weeks ago, I heard something about "anti-prions" being discovered by scientists that would actually fight back Mad Cow Disease and last year I heard something about an "Alzheimers Vaccine" which can also be used to combat prions in the body. Any further information about this should be posted in the Planet Earth- Human body- Disease area of this board where I shall continue this post. Peace, James TT. | ||
Hampton Hsien-Ting Chiu |
Hi Linda: Michael has provided all the detailed information that I plan to provide. But I think this post should go to other topic than 'religion'? Hampton Chiu | ||
Linda |
Hello Hampton and Michael, Michael's swift response provides information that probably does belongs in another area, but as I read Ptaah's remarks, they clearly establish no relationship between mad cow disease and "spiritual development" or "religion" or "false teachings" as I believe we were discussing and curious about. Thank you, Michael, for being so on top of it! Linda | ||
Hampton Hsien-Ting Chiu |
Hi Linda: I think the quote 'higher the evolution of the life form, the longer the incubation period.' implying the spiritual development. The closer your belief system to the truth, the higher evolution the person will reach. That, of course, is my personal opinion, and the definition of 'TRUTH' varies by person. Hampton Chiu | ||
Linda |
Hi Hampton, Yes, I found myself pausing at that point in the quote as well. I suppose it's possible to say that homo sapiens = spiritual development, but I seem to have difficulty with that equation. I would like to think that human beings are spiritually developed, but as an earth species are we really? Our sorry planet doesn't seem to reflect very much of that. Hopefully we are evolving . . . Linda | ||
Hampton Hsien-Ting Chiu |
Hi Linda: Personal opinion here as usual for your reference. I think there are 7 levels of spiritual development, as a whole human reace on this planet, we are about lower part of level 3, Plajaren are at higher part of level 3, Patele is like Level 6, Level 7, of course, is Creation. I don't know where Mary Popping is though, maybe Level 4? Just kidding. Each person's spiritual development again is different. Though my reading, I realize that if we have higher spiritual development, we tend to use strict logic more, instead of emotion, to make decision. Rarely Samjase, Quetzal or Ptaah make a joke with Mr. Meier, and they show much less emotional fluctuation as human do. And I think with less emotional change, or temper, as most people say, it may improve the chemical balance in our body, thus we may live longer. I noticed two of my in-law relatives died of cancer when a lot of pressure occured on them, so maybe cancer is related to the emotion? which lead to logical decision ability? which lead again to spiritual development? Just my thought. Peace. Hampton Chiu | ||
Lars |
Hi Hampton and all, The Palestinian\Isaeli conflict is very precarious I found a map showing just how far Israel has invaded into the west bank and created jewish settlements within the Palestinian areas of the West bank. Please check this link out:\ Palestinemapweb.page from the evidence seen on this map it appears that The Jews have or are taken over the Palestinian lands. This is regretable for Israel must be in violation of the UN resolutions, No wonder why then there is Jihad against Israel!!! It is written is Daniel.11:14 "And in those times there shall many stand up against the king of the south:Also the robbers of thy people shall exalt themselves to establish the vision but they shall fall." In other words the Jews are acting on their own initiatives right now, in regards to how far they take land and colonize it, there are no prophets there to consult. Thus the political Jews are trying to establish the vision themselves, and they are called robbers by the prophet Daniel and they shall fail or fall. this fall will come about when an international and European tribunal is convened to settle this Palestinian -Issue, this tribunal will somehow hammer out a workable solution.But this will only be temporary as the prophecies predict. all of this will eventually lead to the war "Armaggedon." regards, Lars | ||
Hampton Hsien-Ting Chiu |
Hi Lars: Do you know in Christian Bible, what will happen before Armaggendon? I remember there should be events like 'Mark of the beast', and 'Unified Church', and Christian people disappearing? And I also remember all these should happen pretty soon after the country of Isreal is established? Do you know the timeline of all those events according to your Bible? Peace. Hampton Chiu | ||
Hampton Hsien-Ting Chiu |
Hi Lars: I read the Daniel 11:14, I think it is talking about event occured thousands of years ago, in the same chapter, it mentioned a lot about 'king' and 'price', I don't think you can apply that to current situation. Peace. Hampton Chiu | ||
Lars |
Hello Hampton Yes, It is said that before the final great war of "Armageddon" The Jews will have their Temple rebuilt on Mt.Moriah in Jerusalem and will offer animal sacrafices again. There will come a brilliant diplomat out of the E.U. (European Union} he will broker a final settlement peace deal between the Palestinians and the Israelis. this is all predicted in the books of Daniel.9: and Revelations..13: Also there shall be "Two Witnesses or prophets chosen to propesy during these difficult times they will have great power to work miracles and send plagues.see Rev.11:3-11; these men are probably the prophets Moses and Elijah reincarnated, but they are raised up primarily to expose the false E.U. leader who later becomes the beast and anti-christ he will install a New world order of politics, economics and a new world spirituality; eventually he will assert absolute rule and power over all the earth as he becomes and is seen as a Savior. eventually he will want and demand worship from the world for his heroics. He will sort of be like the old Ceasears of Rome. These are all events destined to occur before the final Armaggedon war in Israel.which should happen some 7 years after we see the Jews rebuild their Temple in Jerusalem. As far as christians disappearing? this is supposed to happen during the great trial period,a little time before Armaggedon. they will be caught out and away in the spirit and will become transfigured beings, like angels. This then is the timeline as outlined from the Bible. regards, Lars | ||
JAY |
Lars, Thanks but no thanks.. I really do not care for a person or GOD who wants to create more politics in the world. We do not need anymore of the same old system of things and religious dogma. | ||
Hampton Hsien-Ting Chiu |
Hi Mr. Frehner: In your Oct. 14, 2002 post, 'g' section, you mentioned that considering 'Messiah' have come two thousand years ago, does that means Jmmanuel is 'Messiah' in your opinion? I doubt that Mr. Meier will agree to that title, he is the man hates title, he did not want event the 'Prophet of the new age' title when Ptaah called him, but eventually agreed to the title. What would be the response if you tell Mr. Meier that you think Immanuel is 'Messiah'? Peace. Hampton Chiu | ||
Lars |
Hampton, I would never tell mr.Meier that I think he was the Messiah, because in my opinion he was not.He denies all of the predictions respecting the Messiah and what his work would be. So Mr. Meier was not and is not the Messiah spoken of by the great prophets of the OT. He may be a new age prophet for alien races, but I think he had nothing to do with the Messiah spoken of by Daniel and Isaiah. Jay, I agree with you we do not need any more politics and subversive religious cults, but this is exactly what we on earth are headed for globally. Because this present earth is enslaved under the most evil and dominating powers of fallen archangels, this evil cruelty is seen in the atrocious acts committed daily, acts so gruesome they are beyond any feeling and conscience.these evil feelings are being projected like missles from the arsenals of devils,because they are self condemned. All of the Bible's predictions fulfill themselves. all of the prophecies regarding the Messiah's sufferring preliminary work came to pass as predicted. So also shall all of the prophecies regarding Messiah's royal Kingly work happen as well. Only a triumphant son of God can straighten the earth and it's mess out, mankind left to itself is helpless and is self-destructing. Man is going to try and do this through the coming global Prince who will become the Beast-antichrist. He who has ears let him hear. Lars | ||
Jean Pierre Lagasse |
Hi All, If someone were to ask Mr. Meier if he is the reincarnation of Jesus Christ the Messiah, he would most likely say NO, as he has said very clearly he is NOT, from what I've read. He gave a pretty thorough explanation on this, also. 2000 years ago, many people did not think the "Messiah" fulfilled the old prophecies, as they thought he should deliver the people physically from their oppressors & take the position of "King". Or, because he did not fulfill THEIR interpretations of the prophecies... Not only did they misinterpret what he said, but they crucified him on top of this. Or they did not care one way or the other. Etc. etc... Next thing you know, these "same people" are now all good Christians ??? Today, quoting the scriptures, prophets & everything !!! Everything figured out... every prophecy, every quote etc. No more mysteries...!!! That's pretty good, eh??? Yea Right...!! These people (back then) "missed the boat", so to speak... but no matter !!! They created their own "Messiah" & called him "Jesus Christ" !! Now... if someone were to ask Billy if he is this same Messiah (reincarnation of Jesus Christ)... what do you think he'd say??? Or... in a hypothetical case... if the "Real Messiah" stated that in truth, there is NO SUCH THING as what we think as "Messiah" at all... And that there exists in reality only simple knowledge of the truth... of our personal relationship/evolutionary path with/towards Creation itself. And that we should seek the truth and prize it greatly. That there are no Gods, no Saints or Prophets or Messiahs who can or would "save us" in spite of ourselves. And that we should learn to thoroughly examine everything & learn to think for ourselves. That we should not take ANYBODY's word for anything, including ANY so-called "Messiah". And that we should develop our own minds & learn to control our (irrational) thoughts, urges etc. through meditations (etc.) & the knowledge thereof. That this simple knowledge could liberate us from the "Devil" of "Untruth" from the past... but only if we DO NOT BLINDLY BELIEVE... this (or anything else) & instead begin to earnestly seek the truth, think, contemplate & examine all this for ourselves... No... I do NOT believe that Mr. Meier is the "Messiah" of this age. I Thank Creation for That !!! I Thank Billy too ! The Plejarens also. These are my own thoughts & viewpoints only, from what I understand, from what I've read & contemplated. Not necessarily the truth either, but as close to the truth as I know for now. Salome, JP | ||
Norm |
Meier is "The Prophet of the New Age" meaning Prophet of this Era. He is not a Judeo-Christian invented Messiah! | ||
Lars |
Hi everyone, Does anybody want a really good laugh? Yes? then check out this audio link at... Violetdecreewebpage Be sure your audio is on as the clip should open automatically It's a religious decree about the so called violet falme, It's very funny to listen to as the decreerer's all sound like little robots reciting a computer program!! Now this is religious nonsense!!! Lars | ||
James the truthseeker |
Greetings Lars, I haven't checked it out yet, but I bet it's one of Elizabeth Clair Prophets nonesense mantra chantings. She is not liked by people(myself included) at all at Mt Shasta as she is a cult leader. She is actually band from the area. I don't need to listen to it because I already know what she sounds like. Peace, James TT. | ||
Lars |
Heloo James, Yes, Mrs.prophet is a cultist and from the last I heard she has come down with parkinson's disease and 1000's of her church members have forsaken her organiztion. Her cult mantras are benumbing to the mind they are dangerous! That is why I think most new age mantra chanting if it's not done by pure souls with pure intents is mentally debilitating and dangerous. Regards, Lars | ||
James the truthseeker |
Greetings Lars, Actually the more I learn about the real spiritual teachings, the less I like the gurus of India and other places. It seems real spiritual teachers don't need followings and would even feel repulsed by it. Peace, James TT. | ||
Lars |
Hi James, I have to admit because my conscience tells me to that the spiritual teachings that Semjase revealed are real and helpful. and Iam not against these basic teachings. It's just as yet that I cannot swallow the stuff about Christ and Israel being mistaken and falsified. It's funny, but I half accept Billy's mission and contacts and esteem there is value there even though i think some of it could be mistaken. I happen to believe in a more esoteric view what the Bible teaches, and I think there is some truths can be found in the 'Kabbala" and many truths throughout all of the diffrent sects, there is value everywhere and it pays to examine even the taboo sides. regards, Lars | ||
Hampton Hsien-Ting Chiu |
Hi Lars: I would suggest you take as much time as you need to digest the information you learn from Mr. Meier's teaching, including spiritual teaching. Though you are more religious than most of the persons posting on this forum, but you know what, you will be regarded as radical in a regular church. Your own free will can decide the path you want to go. Peace. Hampton Chiu | ||
Scott B. |
Hello, In this section of the forum there has been much discussion in regards to religious ideas and philosophies, but what are we really talking about? What is the core dispute amongst people here and everywhere when it comes to the discussion of these ideas? To me, it is the disagreement of ideas people to choose think about, and which ideas correspond to truth or what the truth should be. What is an idea? From my understanding an idea is a mental symbol representing something either factual (something provable) or something abstract, which can’t be proven in physical terms. So what does this leave us with? Some ideas, which are relatively provable in physical reality, and others, which cannot. How can we prove which are ideas are true or false? In the religious context all we have is what others have written and passed down through the ages, but how do we know these ideas are true and correct? What basis do we have available to us in our daily lives to accept an idea as truth? How much do we really know? Is what we know based on the acceptance of ideas and concepts passed down to us by others? Who is to say the writers of many of these religious texts had a grasp on what was really true? How many of these thoughts and concepts have any relation to reality as we know it today? I think what is important is to learn to live our lives in the present as we know. I think it is important for each of us to learn to understand ourselves and our relationships with each other, which in itself can be very difficult at times. How many of us pay attention to our daily thoughts and ask ourselves why we think what we do? To me, that is where the search for truth should begin. It is difficult enough just to try understand our own purpose, yet alone try and unravel the complexities of religious writings and beliefs, which in my opinion have created more strife and disharmony among human beings, which has led to the break down of common sense and a rational balanced understanding of life. Salome Scott Baxter | ||
Jean Pierre Lagasse |
Hi all, For someone trying to understand the "jump/difference" between the "old biblical" Christian ideas & today's TJ/Plejaren/Meier concepts, it might be helpful to study Edgar Cayce's readings. Cayce's info might be termed a "missing link"... as his info integrates/re-explains/clarifies reincarnation etc. with many Christian "beliefs" of his day. The Meier info supercedes & corrects Cayce's concepts, however, & for outright accuracy it may be best to simply stick to the "Meier" info. However, if one is trying to understand earth culture's "evolution" regarding these thoughts... Cayce's info might provide some insight. Cayce is one of the very few "psychics" credited by the "Meier info" as such. Oh also... standard "disclaimer" intended: The above statements are my own observations only, from the best I know for now... & are not necessarily the truth either, or FIGU info etc. etc... Regards, JP | ||
Claes Elmberg |
Where can I find Figu's references to Cayce's material? Hello JP and all, I would like to know in which leaflet book or site I can read about Figu's explanation of Cayces information Thankyou, //Claes | ||
Jean Pierre Lagasse |
Hi Claes, There are no "Meier" explanations etc. that I know of (at least in English) on the Cayce information. I think we are quite on our own on this. There is, however a reference to Cayce from Billy in German: "... Edgar Cayce kann und darf ebensowenig in die Vorgenannten eingereiht werden, wie auch nicht Nostradamus. E. Cayce war ein begabter Seher und ein ausgezeichnetes Medium, während Nostradamus ein Seher und Berechner astrologischer Form war. Billy " I don't remember it's source, although it might be mentioned in my old emails. Also, there are references to Cayce on the German FIGU forum. If anybody has any more information than this from the FIGU info, please share !! Regards, JP | ||
Linda |
Hi Scott B., Your post is interesting as I think it raises questions that are age-old, if not ancient. How long have human beings been asking questions like: Who am I? Why am I here? What is the purpose of my existence? What happens when I die? What do the stars tell us? Are there gods and goddesses of Olympus influencing archetypal reality or Native American spirits in charge of rain or fire? What is my relationship to polytheism or monotheism? Is there an "avatar" that presents itself throughout history? Is there a relationship between myself and a higher deity? Is there a moral code that establishes a way of relating to my brothers and sisters? These are eternal human questions, I think. And the "truth" of their answers lies only in an evolving universe. In other words, there is no such thing as an absolute truth, but rather an evolving understanding. Just my thoughts, Linda | ||
Hampton Hsien-Ting Chiu |
Hi Scott: I must say this is another good post on this forum from you. I started asking similar questions raised by Linda at 18, why am I here, what will happen after I die? Then I start look into religious books for answer. In fact, I think Buddhism philosophy is pretty close to Mr. Meier's teaching. Basic concept includes reincarnation, everybody could achieve 'Happy' status by mental/spiritual training. But Buddhism never talked about Creation or provide a good/solid theory how the universe is created, at least as far as I know, Savio, you may have to correct me in this. Then I checked other religions' theory and their logic, it is instersting that OT and NT, if you look at them separately, there is no logic flaw, but when you try to combine the two books together, there are so many illogical or contradicting preaching among them. Before I get to know Mr. Meier's materials, I was still in search of my belief foundation, now I think Mr. Meier's teaching is closest to truth. Peace. Hampton Chiu | ||
Savio |
Hi Hampton I would think the Original Basic Taoism is the one that is very close to Billy's information. Taoism talks about the ways how nature works, how to live with nature in peace, there is no god, everything is part of the universe, nature will have its own way that runs without mistakes and without emotions. When one understands the ways of the universe, he will choose the middle attitude on his daily life, that is do not go to extremes, a balanced state, the neutral positive attitude mentioned by FIGU. Regards Savio | ||
James the truthseeker |
Greetings JP, I seem to remember the Edgar Cayce info from Billy send from Harry D. The translation I finally found was something like this. "...Edgar Cayce can be incorporated as been truthfull into the group of very few mentioned ones, yet unlike Nostradamus, E. Cayce was a talented Seer and an excellent medium, while Nostradamus was a Seer and a prophet of astrological form. Billy". What I always found interesting about Edgar Cayce was that he was always right on in is information, with the exception that Billy was able to give us more specific details! Edgar Cayce mentions that Atlantis was finally destroyed by an exploding crystal where as Billy confirms that this exploding crystal was in fact an exploding asteroid brought down by the Lemurians. Edgar Cayce mentions the existance of Lemuria first then much later Atlantis which was destroyed more then once much later. Billy confirms that Lemuria was founded first then shortly after Atlantis, but there where also pre-existing civilizations long before this which Billy doesn't give names to. Edgar Cayce in turn did give names to these pre civilizations as being Atlantis and Lumeria probably because these places did not have any names during there time and thus Cayce would then perceive the names as such until or unless someone asked further specific questions which unfortunately did not happen. Peace, James TT. | ||
Hampton Hsien-Ting Chiu |
Hi Savio: I think what you mentioned about Taoism is true in our daily living philosophy, but Taoism never mentioned reincarnation concept? I think Buddhism is closer to truth in spiritual teaching, including what happened after death. Peace. Hampton Chiu | ||
Savio |
Hi Hampton Yes, you are right in saying that Taoism never mentioned reincarnation concept However, instead, they mentioned that life is like energy transfer or change of form within the universe, it is just the shape/form is changed, the change cycle is normal and according to the universal laws and will never end. Life energy is always there. Perhaps, this is an indirect way of understanding on reincarnation. Regards Savio | ||
Edward |
Hi Linda..Hampton..Savio...and All, Ofcourse Linda...Appologies Always Accepted! Likewise...from me to you. I hope you came to some Results..to your satisfactory. I must say it is very Difficult for me to explain at times. I see Hampton and Savio has brough up a good dicussion. I have Always found the man with the Long Ear-lobes to my intrest since I was small. Buddha has always impressed me from child on. Not only because of his ears!(This will be my next question to Billy!) He is the Only one..I've painted and is hanging here at home. Taoism and Buddhism Together make a Great Teaching/ Philosophy..is my opinion. As Savio mentioned...Taoism..is concentrated in it's Own Directions...just as Buddhisum is also. For the Ones of us that have practised 'Martial Arts'...Will Know the Link..of the Art with Nature...Creation and the Universe. Some of us may know that Martial Arts was Created by mainly Buddhist Monks...to Defend themselves...from an opponent. It being a 'Defending' Art....Not Offensive! To me...it Is an "Art"...Not a Sport! There Is just More To It! It's a "Life-styl"...and "Way Of Being". To practise the Art to it's Fullest...One has to train One's Spirit and Mind....to become ONE...and in Balance. And to Become ONE...with The UR-Source..within and Around the Being. If One has Mastered One's Spirit to Harmony through Meditation...One has Full Control over One's Physical Body. And if done well..every inch of One's muscles. And if that is Achieved...it would make One's body Less susceptible for illness or other physical Dis-Harmonies. This is the Philosophy from where the Human Body can 'Stop' or 'Resist' itself...from UnBalancement and Dis-Harmony... Surrounding it. As some of us may know: "A Healthy Spirit is a Healthy Body...and Mind". We exist in a Universal-Creational Body/Enity..and we have to try to Function as Good and Healthy as we can. By Being ONE with this 'UR-Source'. Just as 'Our Body'...is a part of that Enity..and all the Genes and Cells....etc...within us...should Also..Function as Good and Healthy as they can. Them Too...having their Own 'Free-Will' to Move and Manifest in our body..as having Minds of their own...so to speak. If our Spirit is in Harmony and Balanced..it speaks for it self..this Will have Positive Effect on our Body and all it's Genes and Cells...etc. Which to me is a Process that is a Reflexion of Creation....within Us. This is my Relation when I had practised Martial Arts. It is just more than just a Sport. I personally think: "How Dare...they call it a Sport!" "It's an Art...Above All...Arts!" Edward. | ||
mark g |
Hi Lars, In response to your post on October 28th.. As far as Im concerned, the Jews do not have a right to that land just because they won a war. To me they are stupid to think there would ever be peace after winning land in the middle east from an Arab state, especially after it was occupied by Arabs thousands of years before 1948. Take away America from backing them and there would be no Isreal? So if its war that makes you think the Jews have a right, then America should back off and let war decide Isreal's future. Fare enough??? Second, you say: ""But all religions serve a purpose to help stable mankinds attention so it can be brought face to face with the inescapable laws of nature and natures Maker. For without any religions or threats and warnings from prophets in touch with Deity the world and it's peoples would live by the rule of "Lex talionis" we would all be devouring each other as wild beasts!"" I disagree that religion stables mankind in any way. Prime example, look at Israel and Palestine. Religion divides and conquers the weak which is far from stable. As for stopping us from being wild beasts, this is a joke. We are far from humane in this world. Every continent has a war or is engaged in one killing millions of innocent lives due to religion. If anything, religion has made the weak, wild beasts and enslaved their minds from thinking. Coming from a very religious family, I can understand your problems coping with some of Billy's teachings. They are a complete reversal in some sense from the brainwashing I received when I was a kid but one day it made sense to me and my eyes opened. I just hope your around long enough to see if those prophecies you believe in, really come true... Just a question.. What prophecies have come true to date if I may ask? I'd be interested in knowing. Mark | ||
Norm |
JERUSALEM (Reuters) - An Israeli Antiquities Authority official said on Monday archaeologists would never prove beyond doubt that an inscription on an ancient limestone casket referred to the brother of Jesus. http://www.rense.com/general31/doubts.htm | ||
Christian Frehner |
Hi Hampton, Regarding your comment of November 1st and the "Messiah": What I was aiming at was the fact that the "being" (human being) called "Messiah" in the Bible did appear two thousand years ago (from today). Since this person (or more precisely: his teachings and behavior) did not match the religious belief system of the Jewish clergy these were not aware that the old prophecies were fulfilled through Jmmanuel. Therefore, a "couple of" people are still waiting for something that has already occurred. And if someone waits for something that has already happened, then it will be a long waiting. Of course the "Messiah" term shall not be connected with Jmmanuel or Billy. I think that "A Fresh Breeze through the Human Brain" would be more accurate. Regards, Christian | ||
Lars |
Hi Mark, You are entitled to your views and I can say that I partly agree with you over the arab\israeli problem. that sitiuation is very precarious.and alot more complex than many really know about But Zecahriah the prophet predicted it would be this way, read. Zech.12:1-3 You asked me what prophecies have come true to date? I answer this one from Matt.24:15 is right now underway to it's fulfillment. It says, "When you therefore shall see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, Then let them which be in Judea flee into the mountains." the holy place spoken of here by Immanuel is the Temple spot, as of right now a group of ultra othodox Jews called the Temple Institue Jeruslaem are drafting plans and articles for the rebuilding of a Temple, complete with a renewed offerring of sacrafice. the abomination of desolation comes or happens when a new Prince which rises up from the European Union comes to Israel to make an agreement with the Jews and the Palestinians, which allows the Jews to rebuild there Temple and the Palestinians a state. 3.5 years after this agreement this Prince shall cause the Jewish priesthood to stop animal sacrafices, and shall instead install himself in the Temple as a god-king, this will occur right after this Prince makes war on and kills the "Two Witnesses of Rev.11:3-9 possibly the reincarnated prohets Moses and Elijah. after killing these modern prophets, the European Prince will be seen as a god and king, because three years prior these prophets had been tormenting and plaguing the wicked on earth with terrible and unstopable plagues. So this prophecy from Yeshua\Immanuel about the holy place being desolated is taken from the prophet Daniel.9:27 The next items on the agenda to appear, are the rise of this European Prince with an outstanding plan to solve the Israeli-Palestinaian conflict and the rebuilding of the Temple by the Temple Institute of Jerusalem. these two events will instigate the arrival of the Two prophets, empowered to prophesy and do miracles for 3.5 years clothed in sackcloth. Time will tell if these prophesies are really true or as Figu may suspect are falsified heresies. Lars | ||
JAY |
Hi Lars, I don't think temples and worshiping so called GODS of old is the key here in this chaos. The PLEJARANS made mention in the contact notes the so called GODS of old should not have been worshipped, it was all a plan of their own to put control and fear in the lesser human souls here to grandize themselves from my understanding. I can only say no old gods should have been worshipped and creating temples is not the way to saving HUMAN KIND in this case. Transgression of the Creational laws is one of the many things which these so called GODS have done on this earth from ancient times, I could only wonder now if these same spiritforms have learned a lesson which has caused what our present status is today. | ||
Lars |
Hi Jay From the Pleajren perspective if they are right about the bibilical God being a JHWH, instead of the almighty Creator?, then only time will tell and expose if this claim is correct and true. as I had mentioned, we shall have to wait and see if those prophecies of Daniel and Revelations come to pass as predicted. I suppose that there is a possibilty that evrything the Plejarens have is stated is 100% accurate, and Iam willing to concede to this. You bring up an excellent point Jay, as to whether the spiritforms of those ancient gods-JHWHS may have learned anything yet as to those old games they played pawning themselves off as the almighty if this is really true? I wonder also if they have? Lars | ||
JAY |
Lars, It seems PLEJARANS are winning the right and exact Prediction game from what I can see. We have to also consider the fact that they are also ancestors of the ancient humans from the UR races as they have claimed themselves to be and or elder brothers. So the understanding to this is the point that UR races were not religious and they themselves did not create or INVENT the ideas of religions as mentioned by "THE PLEJARANS". Predictions according to spiritual as well as scientific is concerned it has been very accurate. I have not exactly seen any predictions from Old Testament and New Testament to begin with to claim it authentic and exact as of yet. | ||
George Madeyski |
16:46 11.10.2002 -0700, you wrote: Hi all, I received the following email which was also placed on the FIGU forum.If anybody has any information or links on any of this, please pass these on!! Regards, Pierre Lagasse ... I need some information on subject of the origin of this religion - likewho is Krishna/Krsna; Hindu gods- Vishnu, Shiva, Brahma? What is their galactic place of origin? What humanoid civilization is it? Is it a part of the Lyrian Nokodemion lineage or totally separate? Does Billy have any information from Plejarians about it? I did the search but I only found unanswered question about this? Regards George Hi Pierre, The Hindu gods have nothting to do with the Plejarans or the Henok line. There is a mythical background to those gods. Billy has/knows no details. Regards, Christian ------------------------------------ FIGU Switzerland Semjase Silver Star Center | ||
Claes Elmberg |
The Hindu Gods. Hello all, I have noticed in my travels that Shiva and some of the other gods from the hindu religion are often pictured with blue skin so maybe there is a connection with the Atlantean decsendants living by the Himalayas. This is only my own speculation. (Billy has seen someone from this blueskinned race race in India, he mentioned this in an interview with R Winters) Salome, //Claes | ||
nonesuch |
Here are some thoughts on Hinduism: Jew/Christian religion is pure trash - it is actually the sayings of the false god. I see real Hinduism in its ancient form as a DEFENSE AGAINST RELIGION! This is the pure form of Hinduism that is similar to Buddhism. It increases consciousness. It is called Vedanta or Advaita Vedanta or 'nondualism' - the pure form of the highest truth. Here are some facts about it that are very similar to a few things the Plejarans say: 1. Plejarans call the Universe the "Cosmic Consciousness." This is pure Vedanta. Vedanta says there is no such thing as a material universe without an observer. What we see as the 'universe' is created by the eye that sees it and the ear that hears it. This is also pure German philosophy as well. So, the material universe and pure consciousness is one and the same. 2. Plejarans say that ultimately a person loses their sexual and personality (ego) identity and merges with pure consciousness - above the Petale (sp) level. This is also Vedanta's version of the goal. From the viewpoint of the highest consciousness, there aren't even any 'other people.' This is because when one sees oneself as pure consciousness, then 'other people' are only parts of the same thing - there are no 'other people' there. Here are some interesting differences: Whereas Plejarans say that reaching these high levels take billions of years through billions of incarnations, Vedanta says that each person is ALREADY PURE CONSCIOUSNESS pretending to be an ego. That being the true case, any person at any time can slip into the highest level since HE IS ALREADY THERE. This is what happened to Buddha and many others. Also, a person may temporarily see this, which is called 'satori' or 'a glimpse.' I tend to believe this version only because it happened to me - so I'm not taking it on faith. This viewpoint can be obtained by a regular human who seems like anyone else. Perhpas the 'blue people' from 'who knows where' came to earth to teach this. It sounds like they may be a totally different race from the PJs. There must be other human lines that have come and gone from somewhere other than the historic account as given by the Plegarans. Either that or we do not have the full story. | ||
Jean Pierre Lagasse |
Hi Lars, I'm curious what you might think of an "observation" I made quite a while back regarding Genesis (King James Version): Genesis 1 to Genesis 2:3 Uses the term "God" as the Creator of all things... but starting in Genesis 2:4 the term "Lord God" is used describing the "generations" & "day" when "Lord God" "made" the heavens & earth. The narrative keeps using the term "Lord God" until Genesis 3:2-5 where Eve & the serpent use the term "God"... And yet, Genesis 2:16 uses "Lord God"... which seems to contradict Genesis 3:3 ??? (or does it?) I find it interesting that the narrative uses the term "Lord God" but when Eve or the Serpent speak they use the term "God". Perhaps the narrative was keeping it "straight" but was indicating to the reader that Eve was deceived into thinking that "Lord God" was "God"... by the serpent??? Does this perhaps tend to support the idea that even in Genesis, "God" was Creation, whereas "Lord God" was an ET??? The Christians I've run into tend to use the terms "Lord God" & "God" interchangeably... but I wonder if it is correct to do so??? Regards, JP | ||
Jean Pierre Lagasse |
Hi Lars, all, Here is yet another interesting thought: That in the "Book of Moses", considering Genesis 3:2-5 in which both Eve & the serpent were not speaking the "truth"... that in other areas of this book the narrative would simply report what was said or occured, including any "misperceptions" or "mis-directions" also!! The implication here is that perhaps every single word in the Bible is not necessarily "truth", and these passages should be read within some sort of "context"?? Just a thought... JP | ||
Norm |
"An ancient burial box believed to have belonged to James, the Biblical brother of Jesus, was damaged while being sent for display at a Toronto museum. The museum is awaiting word from the ossuary's owner before attempting to repair the box, but the owner is being questioned by police as the burial box may actually belong to the State of Israel. Meanwhile, Israeli scholars insist that the inscription on the box is a fraud.Scholars insist: inscription is a fraud Israel Insider posted exclusively on October 29 the report of an expert of ancient scripts and writing systems who claimed that while the burial box appeared to be genuine, as was the first part of the inscription, the second half of the inscription, "brother of Jesus," was a "poorly executed fake" and a later addition. http://web.israelinsider.com/bin/en.jsp?enPage=ArticlePage&enDisplay=view&enDispWhat=object&enDispWho=Article%5El1599&enZone=Culture&enVersion=0& | ||
Linda |
Greetings, This post is intended to respond to Quetzal's communication in Contact Report #215 on Saturday, February 28, 1987, What the Plejarans Wish for the Earth Humans. Specifically, I have deliberately selected some statements having to do with faith, conviction, sectarian teachings. On the one hand, it appears that Quetzal is appealing to "tolerance" of different faiths; on the other hand, it appears that he is saying that these teachings have misled humans and pushed them away from the real truth. Consider the following quotes, bold font my own: "True peace as well as true love and freedom should finally prevail on Earth among all human beings regardless of skin color, race, and faith. . ." "It must finally come to an end on Earth that human beings with other forms of conviction as well as different faith . . . are hated, pursued, tortured and killed." Regarding the true sages, ". . . all those must be pushed into the background who spread unreasonable sectarian teachings and principles, through which humans have been pushed away from ther real truth and have been misled." "The earth human must free himself from the variety of . . . faith-oriented directions . . ." Above all, it appears, Quetzal says that the earth human should aspire to the Creational laws and commandments, and I would like to know just exactly what those laws and commandments are. Will someone please post them here? Linda | ||
E. Visser |
Hi Linda. I've allways found it dualistic that on one hand the Plejarans stress out the need for religious freedom for the individual and on the other hand the global acceptance off the Creational teachings. I'm also curious what those laws and commandments are. TerraX | ||
Scott Whitney |
I think it is two different things to tolerate a different (and possibly damaging) way of thinking and to fall trap to that way of thinking. I also think it is possible to recognize the flaws of past and present thinking, and at the same time not persecute others who do not yet realize those flaws. In other words, religions stink, but don't pound the head of the guy that thinks his religion is the cat's meow. I think that is all Quetzel is saying. Scott | ||
Jean Pierre Lagasse |
Hi Linda, all... I think you have recognized a very basic concept/(pearl of wisdom) which involves many/most aspects of the Meier/info materials !!! We shall indeed have a most interesting discussion this coming wednesday. Meanwhile, if you wish, contemplate your question(s) in terms of: "Missionary work". (This is only one example !!) Another is the "Plausible Deniability" concept as proposed by Professor Deardorff !! (etc. etc...!! ) ps: I've tried finding the Natural and/or Creational laws in the archives of this forum but was unable to do so. This is not to say they are not there somewhere?? I'm sure I have them in an English (official) FIGU publication... but we really should have both sets of these posted somewhere for reference !! Salome, JP | ||
nonesuch |
Jp and Linda, Jp - are you related to the chef, Emeril? Ok, Linda - I, too, have difficulty understanding specifically what the 'commandments' of creation are. But, to the best of my knowledge, they seem to all be about developing a capacity to learn or recognize TRUTH and the sincere allegience to TRUTH. Of course, we learn more TRUTH all the time, so we have to always be open to adjust and learn. This is an individual adventure and we are not to have gurus as Billy has said, yet we should recognize when someone is stating the TRUTH. Everything must jive with our own inner feelings though. In this way a person who clings to a religious fantasy is going contrary to his own evolution and, thus, contrary to Creation's directives. Yet, that is the problem for the individual and not for others to bother him about it. We are supposed to safeguard our bag of TRUTH and to deal it out wisely, without offending people who are not seeking it. I hope I am somewhat close, but these are only my own thoughts. in positive arch-crookedness, nonesuch | ||
Claes Elmberg |
OM contains some of the Laws of creation. Hello Linda, Vissner and all, I have also wondered where to find the creational laws and have now ordered the book OM to get some clarity in the matter. In Figus pricelist in the description of the book OM it says: "Die wichtigsten schöpferichen Gesetze und Gebote, Ordnungsregeln und Richtlinien; ..." which means approximately: The most important creational laws and commandments, rules of order and guidelines; So, buy the book and start reading. I know that in one or more of the interviews with Billy on the Figusite he describes a few of the laws, but not with much detail. The Law of Reincarnation seems, to me, to be a creational law. Greetings from Claes | ||
Linda |
Greetings, I also spent some time looking through the main website and old discussion areas for "creational laws and commandments" but was unable to locate substantial information. Thanks, Claes, for the translation of the OM's contents. When I go to the "pricelist" I can't read a thing! Unfortunately, I am in no position to invest money in anything at the moment and wish that information was available to the "haves" and "have nots" equally. So, I agree with Pierre that these sets should be posted somewhere for our reference. Since "creational laws and commandments" is a rhetoric that has been liberally used on the forum without any concrete clarification, I think it's time for all of us to know just exactly what we're talking about. Pierre, as I re-read and apply the "plausible deniability" factor in the context of Quetzal's remarks, I think the P's are demonstrating a maintenance of their ethic of not forcing society as a whole to believe what it is not yet prepared to believe. And I think this "ethic" extends, for the time being, to a loving tolerance of different faiths. Linda | ||
nonesuch |
Exactly, the higher the truth, the fewer are the people who should hear it. This is the basis for not showing up on the White House lawn. I still think that when we finally get a 'decalogue' (by the way there is a book coming from Billy with that title), we will find that the whole 'law' is only about the evolution into truth. How to live to get truth, how to dispense it to others (respect) etc. Billy refers to this as 'the true truth.' nonesuch | ||
nonesuch |
I just received '49 Questions' and find its discussion of 'the soul' very interesting. Again I see my life-long immersion in Hinduism provides me with the same ideas that are being discussed. Apparently FIGU equates the 'soul' with 'the psyche'. The psyche is that emotional part of us that is connected with 'the ego.' So, the ego or 'soul' does not survive death. Only the 'spirit' survives death. The spirit is a non-ego collection of experience, knowledge and intelligence that is stripped of 'a personal identity.' This, again, is pure Hinduism as I understand it. That's cool. Even though I am reading these materials in English, I think they could yet be clearer. In positive arch-crookedness, nonesuch. | ||
Edward |
Hi All... Yes..I Truely...Agree with Quetzal's statements..concerning Tolerance to Religion, Faith..Convictions...etc. I have Always Acknowledged this in my life. This is the Only Way...for Us Earth Humans to get along and Survive... with one and other. Eventhough...I have...in the past, been treated badly by some Church-Goers. We should Still Try and bring up as much Tolerance as possible towards each other. I can 'Foregive'...very easy. It is with many many things today in our lives; it's just a "Give and Take". And this we All should bring up. And be "Open-Minded" to Our Surrounding(s). This Too...is part of our Lessons in our Planet Earth School of Learning. So...this Tolerance concerns..the Above mentioned, Sexuality, Opinion, etc....etc. Edward. | ||
E. Visser |
Hi all. Recently I had some thoughts about religion in general.I came to the realisation that religion as we know it today is a concept of hundreds of years ago.The Creational teachings on the other hand are a New Age concept.To make it short,the two aren't exactly on equal footing.In the western world its becoming noticable that the old concept of religion is slowly giving way. Next I tried to theorise how a God or Creator would fit in a New Age concept even in relation to the Creational teachings.Note; this is just theorising! We know from the Creational teachings that spirits evolve, even up to the point where they join other spirits in a group form of seven.This group in essence becomes one.Later on in spiritual evolution groups join together to form an even bigger collective and in essence become one.My point is, when in essence you are one, wouldn't you be a Creator? Another theory.The universe is permeating with energy or in other words the universe is energy. With energy we also know of a concept named polarity.Positive and negative.Both can't exist without eachother.When these two interact a balanced state can arise called an integrative point.That state or point is harmonious and single.Would that harmonious, single state of energy in the universe qualify for a Creator? Another theory.We know from our studies of the universe that it is expanding.Galaxies continue to move outwards and show no signs of slowing down.When we go back in time, do a 180 on the linear yellow brick road we can see that at one point the universe was denser,when we go further we would see it was a singularity.One point, a Creator perhaps...? TerraX | ||
nonesuch |
TX, You have some good points. And since billy doesn't answer these questions here and there is no one from FIGU to speak for him, we have to make do with our own interpretations. I think when we say that there is no 'creator god' we mean 'that guy in the sky' who takes notes and runs errands for people. Also the big guy in the sky who makes deals with people when they pray, "I'll stop doing this if you'll do that...". THIS god does not exist. Also, the planner of every little detail - that god does not exist. However, since creation does have consciousness, it is probably true that 'it' is a BEING that we can't comprehend. It seems to me that this BEING who is the whole universe has sent in motion everything that we would call the material world. I do not think there is any direction over this creation other than lesser intelligences (gods) having influence over bits and pieces of it. Perhaps even a 'big bang' is just an evolutionary aspect of this Creation going through its natural cycles. In Hinduism, the highest intelligence (GOD) is simply watching everything, but does not interfere. nonesuch. | ||
Norm |
nonesuch, "since billy doesn't answer these questions here" Billy does answer our questions on the forum. He answers 10 questions every few months. http://forum.figu.org/us/messages/12/1871.html?1030771341 Everybody, I just noticed our current round of questions have been answered. | ||
Patrick McKnight |
As I am learning... religions are truth based, but misinterpretation of the origin teachings by those with alterior motives has created a resulting falseness that is blindly accepted by its followers. This "blind faith" blocks the questioning required in spiritual development. The questions are an important part of the formulation of our own answers. These answers are confirmed by our own truth which resides deep in each of us. My exacted answers are not neccesarily yours as my truths are based on my learning not yours. We all are developing at our own rate if we question, process, and learn based on our own truths. Our mistakes are also neccesary for us to learn and develop from, not punished for a lack of knowledge. We are not perfection but more correctly perfecting/developing ourselves, no one else and as such judgement of others is countering someone else's development at their own rate(the reason for acceptance/tolerance). They will develop at their own rate. Only if they have learned to question, and not blindly believe, can we share with them our knowledge as we understand it. This means that they will need to process and learn their own answers based on their own "TRUTH". This I understand as the primary difference between religion and consciousness-related enlightenment. We are fortunate enough to be aware of another round of truth based teachings that Billy is sharing and I am sure in the years that follow, another round of misinterpretations based on an individual/group's selfish motives will occur, thus the creation of yet another "blind faith" religion. | ||
nonesuch |
Y'all, As far as I can tell, the originators of religion are all madmen, like Joseph Smith here in America. You say: " My exacted answers are not neccesarily yours as my truths are based on my learning not yours." Fine, so then there is no reason to consult any human being to find the answers to our questions. I actually go alone with that because anybody claiming to have all the answers is always a con man. You also say, " We are not perfection but more correctly perfecting/developing ourselves, no one else and as such judgement of others is countering someone else's development at their own rate (the reason for acceptance/tolerance)." I'm not sure what that sentence means...., but, I don't know.... have you ever heard all the names Billy uses for people who question him? Hundsfott, moron, imbecile, fool, numbskull and a hundred other names he uses. Have you ever noticed that Ptaah uses all the same name calling as Billy? I wonder why. You use this term "consciousness-related enlightenment" that Billy uses in exchange for 'enlightenment'. Can you tell me the difference? Are we going to throw around the terms Billy uses, or are we going to understand what is meant? Do you know what is meant when Buddhists or Hindus say 'enlightenment?' I think you yourself are suffering from 'blind faith.' nonesuch | ||
Michael |
Hi N.S., I don't think it's accurate to say that Billy calls people who question him all those names. Many of us question him, as is evident by that section on the Forum and the other avenues through which he receives questions. I think it would be more accurate to say that Billy and Ptaah refer to people who try to represent Billy's info as their own, either in whole or in part with their adulterations, as well as people who have no experience of their own in various matters who assert that Billy's info, and the experiences that it's built on/derived from, is wrong...without being able to prove it. I have long thought that terms like enlightenment have been tossed about for a quite some time by people who have accepted that there is such a singular "thing", mainly as a result of Eastern religious beliefs. Those of us who have aspired to be "spiritual" have probably certain beliefs and pictures of what we think that means also. I think Billy's simply trying to help us bust out of all the various beliefs and terms into reality and truth, not as terms but as...realities. I think we can measure the depth of certain beliefs and ego conditions by the amount of discomfort we experience when they are pointed out. How we deal with the discomfort and what we become aware of in the process is part of growth, out of belief and into knowledge. | ||
nonesuch |
M, Well, that sounds nice, but the fact is Billy is always putting names on those who question him. Also, he does not like anyone questioning him. In 'Attacking Questions From Japan...' Meiers says, "This also includes the Japanese, some of whom consider themsleves to be so knowledgeable and clever that they can insult and QUESTION the work of those individuals (billy), who strive for the well-being of Earth's entire mankind..." Furthermore, 'enlightenment' is a very specific term layed out by the world's greatest philosopher, Shankara. Such high and enlightened beings are not even mentioned by the Plejarans. If 'spiritual people' are not familiar with Shankara, then they are not serious about 'enlightenment' or what it means. It is not vague. Billy's understanding of the term seems sort of rudementary to me. nonesuch. | ||
Patrick McKnight |
nonesuch, ..... " We are not perfection but more correctly perfecting/developing ourselves, no one else and as such judgement of others is countering someone else's development at their own rate (the reason for acceptance/tolerance)." "I'm not sure what that sentence means....," ..... Sorry for the run-on sentence. Should be: "We are not perfection but more correctly perfecting/developing ourselves. We are perfecting/developing no one else and as such, judgement of others is inhibiting their development at their own rate (the reason for acceptance/tolerance). This we have no right to do unless they ask." My understanding of the term "Enlightenment" is an ongoing process of gaining knowledge. My understanding of the term "consciousness-related enlightenment" is an ongoing process of gaining knowledge based on the truth inside me and how that truth relates to "all". Take my answers with a grain of salt. Process them based on your "TRUTH". The result will be your answer whether it is the same as mine or not is irrelevant. The primary point I am trying to make is to question. Don't "blindly believe". When we don't know what we don't know we don't ask questions. When we know that we don't know we ask questions. -patm | ||
Lars |
Can anybody answer me as to why and how to end the sick mental attitude of "Oppression of the weaker underdeveloped humans on earth by the stronger more competent? Does anybody know how to end ridicule of others because of appearances? It seems that this earth is but one big pecking pen, where it's people peck at and push each other around.also earth people lack tolerance and patience and the ability to FORGIVE. if you make a few mistakes on a job your history.This has got to STOP! We need new education in the spiritual timeless values and these values must be held up in the forefront and enforced and that all ridcule of and impatience with each other must be made crimes which carry a penalty and a severe analysis to try and normalize and correct these psychic disorders. If we want REAL change then we must focus on this particular point exclusively, expect it, demand that it appear, and start behaving with a fresh new mental outlook. this earth human trait of ridicule of others and oppression causes so much serious emotional damage to the pysche, is it any wonder why some people lose it and go on a shooting spree.? some people have sufferred so much ridicule and rejection they are driven insane and driven to retaliate. the pain felt by these crimes is immense and the cost to the instigators will be astronomical. How are we going to solve these serious emotional crimes like ridicule and oppression? How can we become more humane? should we now frame laws against ridicule, is the Hate crimes legislation the first step in this direction? any opinion welcome. regards, Lars | ||
Jean Pierre Lagasse |
Hi all, nonsuch: If I understand you correctly(?), I do have a few questions !!!: Does Creation (everything which there is) exist because of Shankara's thoughts? Is it perhaps possible that one might be able to recognize/evolve towards "Creation/reality" without having to read/understand this from what Shankara says? I could draw a parallel here to the old erroneous Christian concept that "only through Christ", can one possibly "reach god"... (or something like that). Is this what you are saying??? Please explain !!! Also, regarding the common understanding of "enlightenment"... I figured out a while back that one has reached this "state" when one realizes there is NO SUCH THING !!! Evolution/development is ongoing, no matter what "mental/spiritual" state we think we are at. If one thinks he/she is "enlightened"... & is therefore somehow "above"/"more enlightened" than other creatures, then this self importance/attachment/recognition alone will limit further evolution. One will never become anything more than "enlightened". Just my own (present) thoughts/understanding on this... Lars, Yes... it is unfortunate that what you speak of exists. Quetzel's "Wish for the human race" outlines a method/direction for escaping/"evolving past" this, at least in the way I understand this. A link to this article is elsewhere on this forum. Also, in the way I understand this, the implementation of Quetzel's "wish list" is not simply "intellectualism" nor is it a "just a Philosophy". Much work/self evaluation etc. (in the proper direction) is required for this to be fulfilled. If you wish to discuss this "less formally", or "throw a few ideas around"... there is always Chat 1 on em trading post on Wednesday nights !! Email also... whatever you wish, eh? Just thoughts... JP | ||
Patrick McKnight |
We have no control over others and how their truth bases their understanding of everything around them. We can only develop ourselves and not sit by blindly accepting. This is how we BEGIN to end what our truth teachs us is not of benefit to us all. patm | ||
Lars |
Hi JP Would you supply that link to Quetzal's outline? I'am interested in reading his presentation. Lars | ||
nonesuch |
JPL, You have your own idea settled in your mind, so why do you need to hear mine? You say there is no state of enlightenment. How do you know? Anyway, we all sort of find people whom we believe are more advanced, and we take much of what they say on faith, and then test it as best we can. Whether he likes to admit it or not, Billy is a guru to many - and that is fine - he has much wisdom. But to me he is not the highest I've known. He's not the highest on the planet. Nor is his cosmology the final answer. That's just my opinion. nonesuch | ||
Jean Pierre Lagasse |
http://www.steelmarkonline.com/PlejaransWish.pdf There will very shortly be a link to this publication on em also. Perhaps in my own (un-enlightened ) opinion...: What is presented here by Quetzal encompasses the very best of all the concepts I've ever read (or thought of)... Of course, he only very briefly summarizes them here. (makes me really wonder what could possibly be in "Billy's Spirit Lessons" !!) As always, whatever I say are only my own opinions. (you all will (& must!!) figure out your own ) Regards, JP | ||
Jean Pierre Lagasse |
Hi nonsuch, I thank you for sharing your thoughts... as your posts have value (to myself)... they make me think !!! "Billy's info" is actually a conglomerate of several different information sources. Billy himself is for the most part, a "messenger" or "contactee". If anybody has read through his information, from within "his info"... this is pretty obvious. What Billy himself personally has to say, is only one facet of "his info", so to speak. If anybody understands what has been communicated and said, they know that Billy is NOT any form of Guru. But, perhaps this "misconception" is "normal" in that people will get their own ideas from all this. Perhaps they have not really contemplated what was said... or have not read enough??? One of the reasons for this forum, is to be able to "throw" these types of ideas around !!! Personally, I think that the "enlightenment concept" is used by these "wannabe guru's" to hold control on their "followers". Enlightenment is never achieved, eh?... but then, perhaps (maybe!?!?) with their "continued guidance"... etc. the loyal followers might have a chance! I would have thought that anybody who truly understands the "evolution process" would understand the ideas of "attachment" and "self-importance" etc. My mistake, perhaps. Please look over the link provided in the post above... I am very interested in your thoughts !!! Looking forward to this... JP | ||
nonesuch |
Lars, All of these problems you mention come from too many people - too many rats in the cage. If countries were wise they would stop all immigration. That is a start. But I have a radical thought to consider: Perhaps what this planet really needs is a vast nuclear war. This would do many useful things. 1. cut population down to sane levels 2. destroy faith in religion 3. stop America and the CIA from enslaving mankind 4. demonstrate for a long long time the horrors of playing war and manipulating others, and, 5. bring back manners and courtesy among people - People would begin to actually treat one another with respect after half the planet was rubbed out. War, "it's a good thing." Just some thoughts on the positive side of catastrophe. nonesuch | ||
Jean Pierre Lagasse |
War fixes everything??? Hmmm... Sounds like "we" will not have learned anything and will simply come back & do it all again !!! Just like the last destroyed civilizations, Atlantis for example, as described in the contact notes. So much for anything Quetzal might have to say??? I think I like "Billy's" observations/thoughts better... At least, there is wisdom in what he says. What are you trying to do on this forum nonsuch??? Forgive me, but it sounds like you have some sort of "agenda" or "important thing" to "prove"...??? Who do you work for??? Or... are these your own true thoughts??? What you speak of, is Certainly not anything I have read from any FIGU info !! JP | ||
nonesuch |
JPL, Please, I'm only amusing myself. Relax. I don't work for anyone, and it makes no difference to me if anyone believes anything I say. It's only fun. I look at things differently. What my viewpoint really is would be impossible to say. I want to see if FIGU will really let me say what I want. I am very supportive of Billy and his mission among people who are not familiar with it. To those on 'the inside' I ask questions and disagree on some things. No big deal. As for war being 'good,' I do believe that everything is both good and bad. It is like winning the lotto - it sounds good, but in some ways it's a curse. Everything has its benefit or opportunity, and everything has its own cancer. The universe is always dual - both good and bad, both growing and falling apart - always. nonesuch | ||
Jean Pierre Lagasse |
Hi nonsuch, I think I understand. My kids sometimes get on the popular chat rooms, & just simply jabber away at the Christians etc. just for fun... When they get kicked off, they go to the athiests rooms & do the same. Anything goes. Of course, nobody knows who they are... no email addresses or anything. If this is the level at which you respect this forum, then so be it. We now all know what to expect from the content of your posts. We are all guests here, including myself. For myself, I am quite thankful that people such as Billy & FIGU allow us the opportunity to discuss all sorts of matters on this board... For this they have my respect. Myself, I try not to abuse this privilege, and try make the most of this, as do most others posting on this board. There exists the rare opportunity to discuss matters pertaining to the future of the human race, it's history etc. on this board, with the "direct/indirect" input from an entity the calibre of Billy (& associates)... I'd like to think that others of our human race consider this an opportunity as well, but now I see this does not apply in all cases. JP | ||
nonesuch |
JPL, No, you don't understand. I'm not here to disrupt the discussion, I'm here to disrupt your self hypnosis. I am serious about what I say; I am not playing a child's game or simply bothering you like someone from MUFON. Yes, I have fun doing it, but my business is serious business. I suppose like any church you can have me thrown out if I make you think too much, but I'm not playing games. I've also provided FIGU with my address and email - so how am I hiding? Should I send in my photo? Birth certificate? Billy himself could contact me if he wanted to - that would be OK too. I have nothing to hide. nonesuch | ||
Michael |
N.S., Maybe you can enlighten me about a couple of things: 1.Did enlightenment exist before the term was coined (by whoever coined it?) 2. Wasn’t whoever coined the term merely labeling/describing a subjective experience? 3. If he was labeling a subjective experience why do we presume it should (or could in the same way) be experienced by others in the same way? 4. Was anybody enlightened before the term came into being? 5. How is someone who claims to be searching for enlightenment qualified to recognize the truthfulness of someone else’s claims that they are enlightened? 6. If one isn’t, or never becomes, enlightened do they miss out on something “special” like people who don’t get “born again” as Christians supposedly do? 7. Can you be enlightened and not know it? 8. If you do get enlightened and you don’t use that term, are you still enlightened? 9. Assuming there is “something” called enlightenment and you “attain” it…so what? Also, what is your criteria for a “high guru” and what is defining someone in that way supposed to mean or do for anyone? Would it raise or lower your perception of Billy's vertical status in the guru ratings if you learned that he and the people around him at FIGU Switzerland focus quite a bit on very low things, like working their land, even though no one we know of has gone "higher" than Billy and been able to prove it? MH | ||
Chris Frank |
I doubt war is the answer, especially the after effects of nuclear as well as chemical and biological. Humans mutated from the nuclear radiation. People starving from food shortages due to the contamination from biological and chemical weapons. Humans resorting back to cannibalism in order to survive. So how does war solve anything but to create problems of a different nature? We would be taking one set of problems and exchanging them for another. | ||
nonesuch |
Hi M, I am happy to try to answer your questions as best I can: 1.Did enlightenment exist before the term was coined (by whoever coined it?) --Enlightenment has always existed and, in fact, it is the state of every person even now. It is the true original state, and all other states are ignorance - various kinds of dreams. 2. Wasnít whoever coined the term merely labeling/describing a subjective experience? --God originally had this experience. That is also to say that YOU originally had this experience. You are God and there is no other person. (The observer is God) All people who experience it report the same experience - that is how true enlightenment is recognized. In enlightenment there is no such thing as anything but pure BEING. No time, no space, no objects, no people, no history, no aliens. 3. If he was labeling a subjective experience why do we presume it should (or could in the same way) be experienced by others in the same way? --it is the nature of REALITY to be the one and only REAL THING, to be the same thing, experienced as the same thing by all. 4. Was anybody enlightened before the term came into being? --in enlightenment there is no such thing as time or even other people. It never came or went anywhere, it has always been, and YOU have always been there. (even if you do not realize it) 5. How is someone who claims to be searching for enlightenment qualified to recognize the truthfulness of someone elseís claims that they are enlightened? --no one searching for enlightenment can even understand it let alone recognize it. Enlightenment cannot be recognized in a person. All the sages agree on this. Only those experiencing it can know it. You can only trust what someone says and try his methods - if they fail you, you move on. 6. If one isnít, or never becomes, enlightened do they miss out on something ìspecialî like people who donít get ìborn againî as Christians supposedly do? --enlightened people say that you should enjoy life in whatever way you want to. There is no hurry to be enlightened and it is an automatic process anyway - nothing you can do about it. If it's your time to become enlightened, then that is what will begin to happen. No book will help you then. 7. Can you be enlightened and not know it? --No. 8. If you do get enlightened and you donít use that term, are you still enlightened? --when you are enlightened you can pretend to be a regular person, but there is no hiding the fact that you realize that you are alone in the universe. If you do not see this, you are not enlightened. 9. Assuming there is ìsomethingî called enlightenment and you ìattainî itÖso what? --Only consciousness exists, so, whatever form of consciousness you have is fine - enjoy it. Also, what is your criteria for a ìhigh guruî and what is defining someone in that way supposed to mean or do for anyone? --You can look up a person on the web by the name of Ramana Maharshi (he died in 1950). His teachings are a fine example of the highest teachings. If you are interested, fine. If not, fine... Would it raise or lower your perception of Billy's vertical status in the guru ratings if you learned that he and the people around him at FIGU Switzerland focus quite a bit on very low things, like working their land, even though no one we know of has gone "higher" than Billy and been able to prove it? --Sages all live very normal lives of mundane doings. That is why they can't be recognized. They may not even be 'pious' or 'saintly.' A real sage doesn't want students and doesn't care to be noticed. He is just as much enlightened working on his car or brushing his teeth. Billy is a very high level yogi, but he is not self realized - that is to say he is not 'enlightened.' A yogi can walk on water, disappear, see gods, read your mind etc. etc. Most of all he can put you into his own reality. An enlightened person is utterly uninterested in proving anything, and he is not interested in the various creative dream versions you have of your 'reality.' I like Billy and wish him the greatest success. He is honest and sincere. He is doing great work in the world. He is a sign of the times. nonesuch. | ||
Marc Juliano |
Hello nonesuch, All: You wrote: "I want to see if FIGU will really let me say what I want." Obviously this is a forum that deals with FIGU information. It allows for discussion of one's own concepts and ideas in order to help unravel the meanings and understanding in that information. Of course, there are logical boundaries, but I suggest that you read prior e-mails by the moderators (including myself) to help understand what those boundaries are. Honestly, I wouldn't preoccupy myself with seeing how far you can go in this forum verbally (i.e. testing the FIGU waters). Just enjoy the ability to learn something here and contribute your understanding of what you discovered in the FIGU material. As far as rules and etiquette: Detailed forum rules have yet to be formally published here, but they will. The forum will be changing its look and features soon, as well. Also, just so you're aware, being a fairly new contributor to the forum (this of course applies to all others): It's not really useful to engage in constant disagreements and debates since we're essentially here to explore what Eduard Meier and the FIGU have to say about things. Otherwise, it might as well be called the "New Age Discussion Board." Feel free to ask any questions regarding the material, and even asking Billy Meier in the Mission topic area if you need clarification on anything. I'll be opening that section up again soon. Thanks, Marc Juliano p.s.- To All: The answers in the Billy Meier Q&A section are answered by Christian of FIGU who derives the answers from Billy. So you will observe Christian's personality and comments within the answers, i.e. it is not a verbatim transcript of Billy! | ||
Michael |
Nonesuch, Please re-read your post for some of the obvious contradictions and beliefs inherent in it. You are simply restating someone else's belief system (which you have adopted), complete with "God", "what all the sages agree upon" (well that settles that, doesn't it?), "masters", blessings and what the conditions of the so-called state are. Someone could say the same thing about a dreamless sleep. And you have taken Billy's inventory and evaluated his status based on...your belief system, which has "higher gurus", etc. Poor Billy is not "self-realized", another bit of Eastern terminology that you have adopted, i.e. BELIEVE. It doesn't cut it. But that's alright, it again demonstrates the difference between people who answer questions with beliefs and specualtion (opinions) and those who answer them with facts and knowledge. I am most interested in what I can test and research for accuracy in the Meier material, as well as any other material. Therefore, for me speculation, beliefs, opinions etc. presented as facts don't qualify. You have some form of an Eatern Indian belief system, some people have Asian religous beliefs, Judeo-Christian, etc. They all seem to propose a state which none of the adherents have or can demonstrate, but they sure make for nifty...beliefs. And I love this, "An enlightened person is utterly uninterested in proving anything, and he is not interested in the various creative dream versions you have of your 'reality.'" Hey, by definition then, a lot of great scientists and mathematicians (and other people interested in proving things) MUST be unenlightened, which is very enlightening to discover. Let's also clarify "various creative dream versions you have of reality", i.e. sounds like another way to say "beliefs". By that definition tonight I am an enlightened person as well, as I am not interested in the various creative dream versions you have of your 'reality'. Keep dreaming (believing) if you enjoy it. MH | ||
Hampton Hsien-Ting Chiu |
Hi All: Just a personal thought here to share. At least in Taiwan, people think 'enlightenment'/(open the third eye) is the ability to communticate, gather wisdom from the dead, and I think it is related to Akashic Records. Maybe nonesuch is talking about differnt stuff? Is it possible that nonesuch's definition of enlightenment is accessing Akashic Recrods? Peace. Hampton Chiu | ||
Edward |
Hi All... My Personal Definition for "Enlightment" is indeed 'Gaining and Receiving Knowledge' to some point. Finding an answer..for example..is for me an Enlightment...for it has given me an answer. We here in our Material World...have very very much to Learn and to Gain Knowledge-Wise. Every answer One would find...can be Enlightment to some. Some would say... "Eureka"...I have found it! But as we go further... MIJ...Greatest Enlightment would be when I have Gained All the Needed Knowledge..I have to Atain to Enter The Highest Spiritual Level..which has let me to manifest to this Greater Level of Consciousness..which leaves me with No Need for the Material Manifestion in a Human Body. And I am in 'Fussion' and ONE with the Consciousness of Creation and The Absolute Absolutum. And that I have reached MY Goal...and Destiny. Edward. | ||
Lars |
Ok, everybody, If there is no future judgment time for demons\evil spirits as is believed by Christians in the NT, then why is this written in the Talmud Jmmanuel.8:30-32 "And behold they cried out saying,what do you want of us, you son of Gabriel, the celestial son? Have you come to torment us before it is time? it appears that these evil spirits knew of and were expecting to be judged and tormented in a future time of judgment. This verse then would prove that there is punishment in the other world for evil spirits. And the verse also contradicts Jmmanuel's later teaching where He states in TJ.18:49-52 That there is no punishment in this life or in another life." But this opposes TJ8:30-32 those evil spirits were expecting to be punished and tormented. this proves then one of two things, either the Christian conception of an eternal judgment for the wicked spirits is true or it is not. Unless of course this verse was mistranslated and needs to be corrected by Billy. Lars | ||
nonesuch |
MH and Edward, Mike, all of what you say about my post is true IF you make an ASSUMPTION. You are assuming that I am speaking about a belief someone gave me from the East. You assume that I do not know for myself. You assume that these are not my own words and own experience. Edward (Edward Meier?), you are saying very much what I have said: There is ONE kind of KNOWLEDGE that is different from all other knowledge - and that is KNOWLEDGE OF ONE'S SELF. You are saying that THIS KNOWLEDGE leads to absorption or unity in the cosmic consciousness. We totally agree on this. Let me just say this about scientific or other types of knowledge - they are temporary and non-permanent. For instance, if you say the 'sky is blue' or 'water is wet' or 'the speed of light is X' you will notice if you really think about it that time and space themselves (and all things in them) are MEANINGLESS unless YOU are there to see and observe. It is the OBSERVER who is real - not the objects, states or energy that he witnesses. Different types of beings or consciousness have much different observations - and so everything is relative to the observer - the observer himself alters that which he sees - so, what is REAL about that sort of temporary, imperfect 'KNOWLEDGE?' nonesuch | ||
Edward |
Hi All... I just noticed...that I missed "Questions to Billy" ...again... And did read the answers of the last rond. It is very interesting to have read concerning "Enlightment". As that Enlightment what I meant/meantioned; is not the Buddist(or others) related interpretation. I noticed that the Enlightment I am refering to is called "Consciousness Related Enlightment". Here when One is looking for an answer...of some sort(or other handelings)...and than receives that answer/reply...One is "Verlicht"...to have found the answer/reply. So...Verlicht...is translated in Enlight-ed-ment here. When now..I see it is called "Consciousness (Related) Enlightment"...and not just Enlightment. I Must remember that. Very Healthy to Acknowledge this. Good for the record. Edward. | ||
nonesuch |
FIGU, Hi everybody. Hey, where can I get my own 'smily face.' Those are nice and I think I need a few 'smily faces' just so you don't think I'm against you. Actually, I have the highest respect for Billy, and my feelings for him are beyond that. Beyond what I can say. He seems closer to me than my own family. Closer than any friend. So, don't get too concerned about me - it's just talk. I'm not here to personally offend anyone. So - Where do I get those cute faces?? nonesuch | ||
Scott B. |
Hello, This answer was given in the questions for Billy in regards to spiritual elightenment: "The end of suffering" is a silly, erroneous Buddhist teaching". "Spiritual Enlightenment" does not exist. However, there is "consciousness-related enlightenment", which means the same as "to acquire knowledge, wisdom and love". In the 10th contact Semjase was talking about consciousness-related enlightenment. In the early contacts she often used the word "spiritual" for "consciousness-related", because the people then did not yet understand "spiritual" correctly. (Actually, even to this day "spiritual" is often misused and misunderstood on Earth.) Consciousness-related enlightenment is a process and influences body, psyche, gemuet and consciousness, among other things. nonesuch, if you go to the formatting section at the beginning of the Discussion Forum you will find different features available. It was also a recommendation by the moderator (if I remember correctly) that we shouldn't get too carried away with the smiley faces Salome Scott Baxter | ||
Mark Campbell |
Hi Mr. Nonesuch ; Are you an adjective ? Just kidding ( insert smiley face with your imagination ). You don't have to over- explain yourself : Everyone here sees you coming . They have the choice to ignore you completely ( which can happen), or take part of the volley of dialouge . You are right about people amusing themselves with forums and chatrooms , it's a bit of play / serious business / I'm testing the waters/ Billy's closer to you than your own family (?) ....etc. and it's free ( woo-hoo!)- Congratulations. What I would like to relay to you is a simple truth about the forum , which our moderator has expressed . This is ABOUT the information and teachings , so having said that , we get alot of people who work out their angst , uncertainties , macho posturing , intellectual proving , intellectual gaming , need to be known as mystics , as well as what is sincerely appreciated the most ; the clarifying and investigational communication between interested minds . Now I know that most of the people that entertain themselves with this forum are only skimming the surface of the information by only familiarising themselves with the website - available information . If you trouble yourself for depeer knowledge , it can be attained . There are books that you can order (this is well known) . There is the the entire contact notes in German , which can be translated by machine for your own understanding . After doing that , you can ask more questions about what you have read( in a slightly dodgy machine translation) . But to be specific , and no,we don't need a picture of you or an in home visit ( please no , not that !) It seems to me that you present yourself as a teacher of some kind . This pattern is something we've seen many, many times before , so by now , it's not even as impressive as fresh unimpresiveness . You are as welcome as anyone here to post , however I would ask that you regard this space as limited , because it is not a chat room . It is an archived board that will likely be used in the future for learning . So , do consider , that the space taken up by the people who enjoy the forum will be by half if they are learning , and twice if they are doing both teaching and learning , and completely wasted if they are entertaining themselves with their own sense of grandeur , and by this I mean supposing that they are more well informed than Billy . I always wonder why some people here don't spend all their time on adamski.com or buddistenlightenmentguru.com , but it's pretty obvious why ....... figure it out if you care to . reiterationally , Mark | ||
Michael |
Nonesuch, I made no assumption, your post presented other people's information and terminology, references, "go read this guy", etc....clearly not YOUR experiences, not xperiences or knowledge originating with you. Perhaps, to paraphrase what Mark said above, we've seen and heard all this before. And, when you want to wax philosophically as a means to dismiss scientific knowledge, label it as not-permanent and all the rest of it, you nonetheless RELY on impermanence enough to use this medium (a result of scientiifc knowledge) to express your own impermanence, as well as relying on whatever medium you used to aquire your information on impermanence. By the way, I know there are some people who believe that the things you refer to are meaningless unless they are there to observe them but there are also people who held those views who have since died and, this may surprise you, reality continues even though they are not here to observe it. There are many valid transcendental points of view that have been adopted by people (a lot of New age types among them) as a means to AVOID this reality and to not, as a famous what's-his-name put it, be here now. MH | ||
Edward |
Hi Scott and All... Yes...I see.. in my saying I did use "Spiritual Enlightenment". Which does Not exist...as Billy made very Clear. Which I have no problem with...as I do not really use the phrase..much to be honest; I barely do. It just fitted-in very well with the last piece I was writing('To Know...is...'). And I was thinking of the word for the "Transition" from a Material body to a Non-Material body..'Pure Spiritual Energy Being/Lifeform'...ataining all needed Spiritual Consciousness Knowledge. Edward. | ||
Edward |
Hi Scott... "However, there is "consciousness-related enlightenment", which means the same as "to acquire knowledge, wisdom and love"."....this was mentioned also by Billy. Which I am refering to...and meaning. Edward. | ||
Scott B. |
Hello Edward, If I understand the teachings, there is no end to learning, whether it be in the material realm or beyond. So in this sense enlightenment is never really achieved. I don't think there is a point where we have achieved "all the needed knowledge" other than to say we have learned all we can learn from this experience. It seems many times mention of the Creation is left out of the equation. I believe the Creation has placed us here for a purpose. While this purpose may vary from person to person, we are all heading in the same direction. I wonder how much do any of us know about how Creation and nature really work. How can we attempt to obtain any form of "enlightenment" on this earth when many of us are divorced from nature and the laws which govern it? Nature is meant to teach us, because within nature reside the laws of Creation (as I see it). I have heard many times, what are the laws of Creation?, but how many of us even understand the basic laws of nature and the principles of cause and effect. As it was stated in the Talmud "the highest directive in Creation is to achieve the wisdom of knowledge so that you may wisely follow the laws of Creation" So it would seem since Creation is endless then maybe our learning about it, is endless. This to me would imply there is no perfect or "enlightened" state, but only a continual refining of our understanding and knowledge. The natural world has much to offer, but it seems we have burned down the classroom and thrown out the teacher. Such a sad state of affairs...and we really have no one to blame but ourselves. Thanks for listening Salome Scott Baxter | ||
nonesuch |
Michael and FIGU choirboys, I come home after a nice, sunny day, look at my email from FIGU and find all of these insults! Oh well. I see lots of 'zingers' here accompanied by snare drum flourishes and splash cymbals. I offer the philosopher's stone, and people cover it over with goose poop and throw it back, hitting me in the back of the head! Would Harry Potter do that? First the 'church' insults you, then they label you a demon, after that they silence you. Here comes the hemlock; my time is short... Since Michael alone seems to have looked into the topic of 'enlightenment,' I will briefly answer his questions: (Michael said): "I made no assumption, your post presented other people's information and terminology" (me): --others have used the same terminology, yes (MH) references, "go read this guy", etc....clearly not YOUR experiences, not xperiences or knowledge originating with you. (me)--no, not "clearly." I refer to others who are better known - just convenient for me to show you someone else whose writing and ideas can be found at length. My own ideas are not different. (MH) Perhaps, to paraphrase what Mark said above, we've seen and heard all this before. (me)--You and others say that you've "heard and seen all this before" - that I am the typical "New Ager" - that "you can see me coming." But I am a unique person who should be evaluated separately. It is like you telling someone about Billy and they say to you: "Yea, I've read about UFOs in the National Enquirer." That wouldn't be fair. Billy's case is unique and important. My view is unique and important. (MH)And, when you want to wax philosophically as a means to dismiss scientific knowledge, label it as not-permanent and all the rest of it, you nonetheless RELY on impermanence enough to use this medium (a result of scientiifc knowledge) to express your own impermanence, as well as relying on whatever medium you used to aquire your information on impermanence. (me)--yes, I see and use the same world as you do. It is like having a dream and suddenly knowing you ARE dreaming - you still see your body doing things in a big city. Yet, you know you are not really there, not really moving, not really susceptible to all the horrors even though you feel them. If you know it is a dream, you use it, you play in it, but you don't ask questions like "what is the TRUE history of this dream?" "Where did these people REALLY come from?" "What is the truth about the science in this dream?" To say it another way then: the world is both real and unreal. (MH)By the way, I know there are some people who believe that the things you refer to are meaningless unless they are there to observe them but there are also people who held those views who have since died and, this may surprise you, reality continues even though they are not here to observe it. (me)--well "this may surprise you," but when a person 'dies' only the body and ego go away. The cosmic consciousness that is the actual 'person' goes nowhere. Therefore, the world continues to appear. The cosmic consciousness is not in the world but observes the world, therefore, the world appears. The idea that you are going somewhere when you die is a myth. Your ego, your personality and it's relationships to others, has a death sentence over it. It will never come back. Get used to it now. (MH)There are many valid transcendental points of view that have been adopted by people (a lot of New age types among them) as a means to AVOID this reality and to not, as a famous what's-his-name put it, be here now. (me)--there you go again with a reference to a book you have not mastered. Granted, the 'new agers' have not either. This ancient doctrine of SELF realization does not come from this world. The people who have experience it are clearly not from this 'planet of the apes.' You should show a bit more respect for this ancient knowledge and those who brought it. It is far above the 'earth human.' Anyway, you have all missed my own objective. I am not trying to avoid Billy's message. I embrace it as the coming 'paradigm' 'religion' and 'myth'. It is full of metaphor that is of interest to me. It is full of truth concerning the present status of the planet. It is a teaching that will lead a person into much higher understanding. I endorse it. I only think that something is missing in the translation into English. This aspect that is the highest of the highest. Perhaps in Billy's mind it is all there, but since others can't understand, it is not making it into English. I can easily enclose all of Billy's teachings into my own view - So, I am only interested in seeing if it can be brought into the highest philosophical discussion of nonduality. Instead of making fun of me, perhaps someone of wisdom could begin to understand what I want to bring to this discussion. I think Billy and I would understand each other quite well - if we could only speak the same language. nonesuch | ||
Savio |
Hi Lars I did ask Billy the more or less same question you asked. The answer from Billy was " "Evil spirits" means negative psychic conditions." Hence, there is no evil spirits.... no future judgment time for demons\evil spirits as is believed by Christians. Regards Savio | ||
Linda |
nonesuch, I see that you survived the New-kid-on-the-block-FIGU-Initiation quite well. It seems to be a predictable dynamic when someone independent and outspoken such as yourself comes on board. (Not intended to be flattering, just a given "reality" from the point of view of an "observer." I have an idea for you which you may or may not choose to follow up on. I would love to hear your story and how you are affected by Billy. Many of us have deeply rooted connections that are hard to explain but which nonetheless exist. In the "Mission" part of the forum there is a section called "How You found out about Billy Meier?" There you have an opportunity to summarize your personal story. I would truly be interested in hearing what you have to say. Linda | ||
Lars |
Hi Savio, That is fine, but how can negative psychic conditions if they are not evil spirits, reply to Jmmanuel as if they have personality and fear being tormented before the time? Who'ever these entities were they spoke as if they were afraid of a future time of punishment. So why would the disciple record this statement if it did'nt have some merit to it? Lars | ||
Savio |
Hi Lars This is my understanding: Negative psychic conditions is a kind of mental sickness called "Schizophrenia". A seperate entity is created out of the sick person's mind or consciousness, this extra entity is out of control ..... may exercise the sick person's knowledge... can be quite powerful sometimes..... This kind of sickness is quite common nowadays. I think the disciple just faithfully recorded what Jmmanuel did at that time. Perhaps you may like to see our old discussions on "negative psychic conditions" here Regards Savio. | ||
Michael |
Okay, we get it. Nothing is real and there’s nothing to get hung about. So pardon me/us if we’re not exactly bowled over by the revelation…or your preoccupation with stating these views as originating with your own experiences. Kind of if-you-can’t-stand-the heat, etc. And there’s no church here that I know of. You’re the one evaluating the level of “self-realization” and vertical guru hood and, well, I guess there’s a LOT that you haven’t read in the material (not that you have to) that might fill you in as to the levels of “cosmic” understanding of the principles in this case. Just for clarification, whatever level of experience, understanding and spiritual development Billy or the Plejarans may have is nothing I can prove or disprove and I can’t do much of anything with any claims regarding it. It’s speculation as far as I’m concerned, as is the material you cite. And I wouldn’t be at all surprised if you and Billy could have much deeper and more meaningful conversations about Buddhism, Hinduism, etc. than I could ever hope to participate in as he has studied all of the religions in depth. But the material which forms the body of this case is so extensive and rich in so many areas that I focus on researching it to determine what can be proved. I don’t deal with the Meier material in the same way as I would with other philosophical material simply because of the credibility I feel he has established, far exceeding any other source I know of. I am inclined to give credence to many other things Meier has said regarding spiritual matters because of his credibility, I give the benefit of the doubt though I still have to prove these things within myself. The point of all this to me is to research, learn, discover for myself what truth is. I long ago posed a question to Billy about the nature of the void, something that has preoccupied me since I was about ten years old, and his answer was something to the effect that the human mind cannot comprehend it. It is still something I contemplate but the pressing needs of this “unreal” world demand more of my attention. The Meier case is, in my opinion, at its core about spiritual truth and reality above and beyond all things. And, while it may not be as lofty and dazzling to contemplate Quetzal’s 21 points as it is to declare the “unreality” of all “things” (or focus on the UFO aspect of the case), it is far more practical and necessary to our survival. So, while I may enjoy transcendental moments, I respect that the material here actually goes far deeper and has more immediacy for me. If I want to spend my time at some buddhism.com type site to explore what it has to offer I probably wouldn't expect much interest in the Meier material. Should some people show interest it would probably be appropriate to introduce/invite them to this site. If they wanted to get me "off" the Meier case to discuss the material that was the point of their site I shouldn't be too offended. | ||
Edward |
Hi Scott... I am very Conscious and up-to-date of what you have posted. I was just seeing it all from My point of view. As for me..the Transition from a Material Body to a Non-Material body..and All that goes with it..(Knowledge, Wisdom...etc...etc...which have I have Absorbed) is a "Verlichting" an Enlightenment. That is all I was trying to say. "Relieving" myself from this Long Cycle..if you will. Ofcourse I am Aware..of further Spiritual Consciousness Growth. Which Is "Infinite". When I speak of Enlightenment or Spiritual Enlightenment...it had No Religious or Teaching Value. So Billy has added the Correct interpretation for me..."Consciousness Related Enlightenment" Which makes it very very clear for me. So I have noticed..it is How One utilizes it in context..for use and interpretation. As I can see now...it can be understood in a wrong manner/context. Thanks for listening also. Edward. | ||
nonesuch |
Michael. "Nothing to get hung about??" - now you're quoting the Beatles. LOL. OK, I'm done scanning the upper stratosphere above the Silver Star Center. You're right, there is much I don't know about the case. But now I think I have a better feel for the characters involved. I appreciate your last post - you didn't put me down too much and you clearly stated your own personal view point and interest. 'I was hazed at the Semjase Academy.' Ha. That would make a cool T-shirt. I will only ask particular questions now - questions that someone can verify. I have been buying some of the books, but obviously I don't have the contact notes (and I don't know German). I think I will be more like a lawyer now, simply asking questions and keeping my opinion to myself. I have two questions today: 1. Someone by the name of Edward posts here. He seems to use English as a German would, so I take it he is a German FIGU member - is he a member of the inner core group? I ask this because a stranger might think this person is Billy Meier. 2. I used to read a lot about the 'contactees' of the 1950s. I know Billy says that only he has been contacted by the Plejarans. What I want to know is - Is it Billy's position that other people have in fact contacted and spoken with other human alien groups as was claimed by others - or does he think all of these claims are lies? I don't mean 'examinations,' I mean a free face to face exchange in the physical world. So, if a person claimed now to be having an ongoing contact with an alien human race other than the PJs, could that be credible? thanks, nonesuch | ||
Michael |
Hi Nonesuch, Glad you can see that this isn't a totally humorless place. And there is no personal offense meant, maybe just a bit of tumbling the stone in the polishing process, one which works both ways. No, don't keep your opinion to yourself unless you really want to. I ask you to consider a few things we do know about Billy such as his having presented the clearest photos and films of UFOs ever made, along with sound recordings and metal samples...all of which are still irreproducible. For his troubles he has been derided and his life has been attacked almost 20 times. So, let's say we give each other a hard time here occasionally about theorhetical and philosophical matters. On a scale of intensity it's probably in the low irritation range as oppossed to the high danger level. How do WE react to these relatively benign challenges and jostlings? I think that anybody that hangs out in this territory for a while is obviously intrested in the case and in "spiritual matters" or we wouldn't remain here. And maybe we help each other, if we're not mean spirited, by throwing some challenges and obstacles each other's way...occasionaly. | ||
JAY |
Hi Michael and Nonesuch, Glad that we are receiving some good stimulation on this subject dealing with the spiritual and reality matters of the Meier case. I for one who writes on this forum occasionally been a person who has known about the case since 1987 and I can say my understanding and following of the Meier case is secured deeply in my understanding of mankind and our existence here on earth. I can sincerely say in terms of my religious understanding of all other religions is that I feel like I have transcended to a higher understanding like that thought by SFATH to Mr.Meier. SFATH has given Meier a good religious training so that Meier could understand and see what has transpired in our world througout the ages since the Human influence on this planet, not just the religious but he was placed under this strict grooming period which has not been easy for him for the purpose of cleaning up the mess which has been left by our elder brothers and start a chain reaction which may eventually change the planet earth for a better evolutionary route. I can tell you his information is phenomenal, not even Steven Spielberg is able to figure out how he made the "BEAMSHIPS" fly which was one of the questions posed to Billy by Mr.Spielberg. Spielberg lives for fantasy and profit and Mr.Meier doesn't, this alone is a plain example of how REAL his information is and how precise all predictions have come to pass so far. I give my hand forever to Michael Horn for doing his greatest best in helping the mission and my hand goes out even further to the CORE group who has been with Meier all their lives as a whole. As in the spiritual matters of Billy, he has been through all schools of thought by way of SFATH who gave him guidance to understand the religions first and show him where all the ancient mistakes were made but also the sciences of our reality and many of the other things which are not known to us by strict rules of the PLEJARANS. This I believe was needed so that Billy could see the wrong in what many of our Ancient JSHWJSH's (GODs)have done on earth for many centuries. The PLEJARANS have given the best for the MISSION since the time imemorial, it has not changed since even the time of Jmannuel (so called Jesus). Nonesuch, one of the better convincing things of this case is to visit the FIGU center in Switzerland and see it all for yourself, to get a stronger feel for its REALITY and spirituality. BE WELL | ||
nonesuch |
Hi everybody, I accept the glad hand being offered. I accept your glad hand and raise you a dove. Once again I'll say it: I DO accept all the photos, films, witnesses, artifacts and testimony of Billy to be true. Ok, hope that is clear. Now, down to brass tacks. 1. I STILL very much want to know if it is possible for a person to have a face to face encounter with a human alien who is not Plejaran. And if so, could it have happened in the past? In the 1950's? Or could a person receive telepathic knowledge from aliens who are not Plejaran. One of the reasons I am curious about this is because I think it happened to me in 1996 - after the PJs left. Of course, I'd like Billy's direct statements on this. 2. I would also like to know if it is possible that Creation Itself is making more people homosexual in order to cut down the population. Just a thought, but if there is a natural system for population control on the earth, you'd think that either people would naturally stop breeding for some reason (gay?) - OR there would be disease and plague to cut the numbers down. NEW FEATURE: 'nonesuch's daily nonsense': If I were the Jshwjsh, I'd make sure with my beamships that everybody all over the earth had condoms and knew what end they go on. If that didn't work out, I'd collect all the best, honest and hard working people who want peace from all nations - and then put all 27 of them on my beamships and take them to a planet they deserve to die on. peace on you, (that's my German twist) I got to find those happy faces... nonesuch | ||
Jean Pierre Lagasse |
Hi Nonesuch... Glad to see (As Linda says) you are still here!! When I first "came aboard", I found I needed to learn "Paaatieeeeennnce...!!! (Thank you Andrew !!! ) There is something to this... in several ways. A few of your questions have been answered in the archives of this forum. Others are within the contact notes etc... even the english (bad translation) versions. One of the things about the Meier info though... is that we seem to need to learn how to search for answers ourselves, instead of being "spoonfed" this stuff by others. The Germans have a saying... "A cooked hen does not fly into the mouth"... (or something like this?!?!?) Edward's post contains a clue or two to one of your questions. I'm sure you know otherwise, though, that in the laboratory, overcrowded rats will show many of the signs we see in our population today. Oh by the way... nobody would tell me how to get the smiley faces at first either. I fiddled with the formatting commands for quite a while until I stumbled across this through a simple typing error !!! Salome, JP | ||
Linda |
Pierre and ns, Another similar adage: Man must sit with mouth open long time before roast duck fly in. Nonesuch, howdy and welcome to this strange little community of ours. We're probably all a bit "quirky" but, in the end, we do seem to tolerate one another, through "thick and thin." Linda | ||
E. Visser |
Hi Nonesuch. Regarding question nr 1.Face to face contact between Earth man and woman and extra terrestials besides the Plejarans almost exclusively get labeled as a hoax in the contact notes. Regards, TerraX. | ||
Linda |
TerraX and Nonesuch, I'd hoped that you would meet since you have similar questions. Nonesuch, TerraX is correct in stating that the position on the forum here is that most other ET/ETI/EARTHHUMAN contacts are either hoaxes,result of somone's special paranormal abilities that could put credible witnesses under a spell, out of the purview of FIGU'S research specialist Michael Horn and his blinders, etc. etc. etc. Michael, you have been a phenomenal "work horse" for 20+k years with "blinders" that have kept you focused on your task. Take those blinders off for a moment, and consider this thought: I think it is time for you to question Billy and the P's about an intergalactic council, for starters. Or at least the existence of communications between other ETs and earthhumans, sans Billy. Many people know or claim to know of these other connections and wonder why you are so strictly opposed to their legitimate reality. Since you have become the "official spokesperson" for the forum, your thoughts will be appreciated. Linda Linda | ||
nonesuch |
Thanks TerraX, Somewhere I got the impression that a contact with a different alien race was possible. Does everybody agree that all contacts with all aliens other than Billy's contacts are considered frauds? Maybe it is saying that contacts would be possible in the future, but not the past. still wondering, nonesuch | ||
Michael |
Hi Linda, First, I'm not the "official" or "unofficial spokesperson" for the Forum. Second, as I tried to make clear but maybe didn't, there are things which I consider speculation and things which are proven facts. I don't know what other contact cases meet a standard of proof, let alone the higher standard of proof that Meier easily meets in addition to his hard evidence, i.e. highly specific, prophetically accurate scientific and world event-related information published from 1 to more than 25 years in advance of "official" discovery or occurrence. I'm not opposed to there being any number of such proven cases, I just haven't seen any proof...have any of you? If so, will you kindly get on with presenting it? One could also wonder that if there indeed exists another case or cases that meet a higher standard of proof...so what? Is the information in opposition to what is in the Meier case? Does it enhance it or replace it? What's the point and value to us here and now? As for intergalactic councils and the like, just what are we to do with that information, ask to vote in their next election? And when we go to the FIGU website, or read some of the recent material, are they chatting about the intergalactic council? No, they're talking about the silly little mundane things like how the government of a certain country is taking one step after another to ultimately lead the world (THIS world) into an all-incinerating world war. Gee, not that it takes an ET to say such things but, since Meier's/Plejarans' track record/credibility looks pretty high to me after my 20+ years, maybe, just maybe we might get on with focusing on what this mission is about in the here and now. If people want to spend their time focused on the Adamski/Menger or anybody else's alleged contacts...fine. But what meaning do they have now (even assuming that any or all of them are true?) There's a feeling here like this is supposed to be some kind of a popularity contest...okay, everybody that thinks Billy is the real contactee raise your hand, everybody that thinks Adamski is, etc. Who cares? We have information in hand...what are we doing with it? Think about it for a minute. If there is scientific proof beyond a reasonable doubt that the most important event in human history has occurred, and is ongoing, wouldn't you (and tons of other people) want to know about it? Wouldn't you want to know what the information was...whether you liked it, agreed with it or not? Have we gotten lost in a weird reality that says, "Oh, yeah, of course this man Meier meets with extraterrestrials, but I think my cousin Bob does too."? And, with all this fuss about other contactees, again my question is: so what? | ||
James the truthseeker |
Greetings Nonesuch, In answer to your question about "other ETs", you may want to read what Billy has to say about the BENEFACTOR ETs, or should I say, look into what Billy is NOT saying about them! I could tell you lots here but that would take just to long. Peace, James the truthseeker | ||
nonesuch |
Today's Nonsense by Nonesuch: When you are a 'truth seeker' you search for your lucky stars. You go on a long journey and have many adventures. Along the way you notice that someone has marked the trail for you - it is like you must have a guardian angel who is giving you clues. You notice these clues and follow them. They lead to greater insights, but you are still looking for your own star. Finally, THERE is your star! You are content - but only really for a while... While looking at your star you have so many things to ask. But the star doesn't answer all your questions, the star is so far away, and now you have even more questions. Do you have more questions now than when you started? There are still so many stars and so little time left to find all the answers. nonesuch | ||
JAY |
Hi Michael, This is the sort of focus I have been talking about to others as well outside of the FIGU environment, the PLEJARANS and any other ET group of Human or non human qualities have been around since ancient of times but the focus should only be on what is at hand "THE CONTACT NOTES scientific proofs and all other information pertaining to cause and effect of our world order is what is at hand here. I agree towards your views 100% Michael, this is the way to go on this. I have many times sat in the office and contemplated how I can make a strong difference such as that as yourself and make the masses also see the view of THE MISSION which Plejarans so kindly and strongly have given us through Mr.Meier but I also develop frustration and sadness in to how to go about it and making it happen as well. I also have wondered how we as a FIGU group can make the masses see what we are doing here or for that Matter what the core group and FIGU is really doing to elevate the standards of this world situation so it will not also become another cult in 30 yrs from today which is usually what becomes of so many of these things. We need to step to the plate and try and setup a way to spread this in a stronger way as to affect the media to the extent where we or you Michael make waves in the planet. Mr.Meier already has sacrificed who knows what things in his life to take on this mission to make the changes necesary for us to grab the staff and take to the next level if that is what is needed of us also. We need to get off the ideology of the UFO mystery of this and go into the scientific proof and warnings given to us by our elder Humans THE PLEJARANS. We need not be caught up in this who has been in the spiritual or who has seen UFOs, we have as a group established our experiences with what we know but now is time to take it to the bigger level of THE MISSION. Michael, is there another way I can start the wave going on my side of the world or would this be something which at this time be prohibited by FIGU Core group at this time? Some insights into your thoughts may open my mind a bit more as to how to approach such a delicate issue as that of the Mission. BE WELL Michael | ||
nonesuch |
Jay and others, I have a practical idea about the mission. You say the mission gets bogged down because of questions about other UFOs, aliens, mutilations etc. Actually, I think the mission is bogged down by much of the nonsense that is in the Contact Notes and things going on from the top. For instance, who cares if Quetzal milks cows when he goes home to his home planet? What good is the Talmud of Jmmanuel? It has only cursed you with more questions. Should you be meditating? Then why all the confusion about the correct time to do it, and nonsense about copper pyramids (which, if you don't make properly may hurt you)? If pyramids were important, then they would be made available. No, you are bogged down by your own internal nonsense. If you were a smart group, you would stick with just a few basics and throw out the rest. Mainly, you should focus on the here and now on THIS PLANET! Just today President Bush has announced that Henry Kissinger will be heading the investigation into what happened on 911. This is like sending in the Godfather to investigate the Mafia. THIS WORLD NOW is in great danger. Why don't you stick to your political agenda and throw out the contact notes and other silly material that is presently irrelevant. Your photos and predictions are enough proof that your political message carries weight - talk and conjecture about polygamist space farmers and intergalactic lesbians does not help your cause. Just a suggestion. nonesuch | ||
James the truthseeker |
Greetings Nonesuch, The relevance of the irrelevant information found in the contact notes is perhaps more relevent to all as a "set example" as to the life WE ALL COULD HAVE as opposed to living life times continually full of problems in every moment. The contact notes are perhaps more relevant then all the other earthly nonesense such as; bars, cars, money, golf, smoking, alcohol, football games, one night stands, etc. If you don't like the contact notes, then I'm sure there's other good nonesense you'd much prefer instead. Peace, James TT. | ||
Norm |
Nonesuch, The reason you are seeing more Gay people, is the fact that its in Vogue to come out of the closet. | ||
Mark Campbell |
Nonesuch ; I find your comments to be extremely insulting and filled with venomnous anger . You cried with the sting of embarrasment and claimed that you were insulted by those who think alike in this forum .You even backed down from your your tirade when you were stung by the words of logic and reason .It's all too obvious that you are a person with a character ( I use this term loosley)that thrives on adversarial dialouges and provocation.You have insulted all of us . You Started out fiegning interest in this subject. You make yourself known to be nothing more than an imprudent detractor . You pretend to be smart,brave and bold with your self-opininated ridcule . There is somewhere that you are not when you are here . It's obvious that you would be trying to cause disharmony there , but it would be more difficult in a real life surrounding , so you choose the internet . Your line of dialouge is typical , obvious and ordinary . Whoever you really are . Someone else who has been posting here , I'm sure , and I think I know who . | ||
nonesuch |
Mark, Please let me respond to your insights: Nonesuch ; "I find your comments to be extremely insulting and filled with venomnous anger ." --I'm actually not kidding when I say that I would like to see more people embrace Billy's main ideas. Especially his political views. So I have no anger involved in what I say - fun and ridicule to some extent, but not anger or bitterness. Why? "You cried with the sting of embarrasment and claimed that you were insulted by those who think alike in this forum ." --I don't recall being embarrassed by anyone or anything said. I've been insulted, but that is what I expect. I don't mind being insulted really. "You even backed down from your your tirade when you were stung by the words of logic and reason ." --No one has STUNG me yet. No one here can STING me with logic, no, I can't be STUNG by anyone who can't explain why an alien would want a book translated that promotes castration. By all means, let's talk LOGIC! "It's all too obvious that you are a person with a character ( I use this term loosley)that thrives on adversarial dialouges and provocation.You have insulted all of us . You Started out fiegning interest in this subject. You make yourself known to be nothing more than an imprudent detractor . You pretend to be smart,brave and bold with your self-opininated ridcule ." --I like to provoke thinking, of that I am guilty. But I am in fact interested in this case - it's strong points and it's absurdities. "There is somewhere that you are not when you are here ." --Technically, this sentence makes no sense, but I think you are saying that when I am not here I am somewhere else, so, yes, this is true - when I am not here I am somewhere else. "It's obvious that you would be trying to cause disharmony there , but it would be more difficult in a real life surrounding , so you choose the internet ." --Actually most people see me as a mediator - someone who can settle disputes between angry people. "Your line of dialouge" --don't you have a spelling checker? That's not your first misspelled word. "is typical , obvious and ordinary . Whoever you really are . Someone else who has been posting here , I'm sure , and I think I know who ." --well now you have accused me of some sort of imposture. But FIGU has my address and info, so I am not anyone you know. I have not been here in the past. I only came to this site for the first time a week ago or so. Mark, you suffer from some sort of paranoia or victimhood syndrome. You are projecting onto me anger you yourself feel inside. Will FIGU pull the plug on an enquiring mind? nonesuch | ||
Michael |
Hi Jay, In trying to find good ways to spread the word about the Meier case I think using the facts that can be shown to be true is helpful. I think you understand that this is more than a "UFO case", even though that part of it will be the most interesting and the most attacked as well. I also agree that the information and the warnings especially need to be conveyed in a way that people can get interested in and handle the information. I always learn something when I talk to people about it and the ones who are most critical or hostile to it give me the best "workout". They help me see what i know, what I don't know, how to communicate it, etc. One of my opening lines is something like, "If there was scientific proof beyond a reasonable doubt that the most important event in human history, contact between a human being and extraterrestrials, had occurred...wouldn't you want to know about it?" See what you can come up with and be prepared to offer substantiation for what you say. And let us all know how it's going. All the best, Michael | ||
Mark Campbell |
Hi Michael and Jay ; Of course I back you all the way on your programs Michael , and I'm glad to hear that you want to take a similar road Jay . The endeavor , as I see it , is one that must be taken with much self responsibilty . The thinking of most people is set somewhere back in the 50's , at the latest , with cell phone and optical fiber technology to make it all seem modern . The approach is the important thing , and sometimes the most success that you may have is that you will have introduced something to a person's mind for the first time . What I'm aware of is that I am trying to learn , more than anything else. The world doesn't revolve around any one person , their opinions or their ego , so you just have to be patient .The best that I have discovered in terms of approach is that I'm not against anyone ; if it becomes a heated argument , it has just become a waste of time . This spiritual teaching was created to help people evolve , and to help people live together as well as with themselves in their most private thoughts. I can't take it personal if someone thinks I'm crazy for bringing it up in conversation , but a friend of mine did recommend that I speak publicly about it , instead of personal discussions .That would be something that would take much preparation , and of course , authorization by the FIGU. People in general are not ready to discuss such matters in conversation because they are not ready , and feel unprepared . The ones that have done a lot of research with the NT for example , are already riding high on their own sense of authority , and can't be told a thing . I suppose that letting people know that you care about them as individuals is important , and if they are in turmoil , they require some distance are carefulness . Remember that eventually , the subject if followed through thoroughly, will challenge their personal religious and philosophical beleifs , as well as their academic sensibilties , because the structure of society is built around conventional knowledge . A touchy matter , to be sure . Keep up the good work and the intent to assist in the progress of worldwide consciousness . Thanks for making yourselves known . Salome , Mark | ||
Linda |
Nonesuch, It appears that you have given "us/we" a good dose of "our" own medicine. "We/us" (whoever that is) are quite liberal with "our" own nasty, sarcastic,and debunking ridicule of opinions or stances different from "ours." When I was growning up, my own family used to say: don't dish it out if you can't take it. I find your critique quite refreshing. But, once again, others here seem to be very sensitive to criticism, even though they freely dish it out. Your idea of dealing with the here and now and the world situation makes perfect sense. I do believe that Michael Horn is also focused on the world situation, as are many of us. In case you haven't yet discovered the extraordinary work of Dr. Steven Greer in this regard, I recommend that you check out CSETI'S website for further information about ET contacts and their implications. Happy Thanksgiving, all! Linda | ||
Edward |
Hi NoneSuch... Yes...I also Welcome you Aboard! I have been reading your Postings with very much Intrest. My name Is Edward..Just..."Edward"....and I am Not a Core-Member..and Not even Our Great Teacher..."Billy Eduard Albert Meier".(Beam) I am Still at the 'Botton' of the Ladder...and still trying to make my way "Up" on this Ladder of Wisdom and Knowledge...just as we all are doing on this Great Discussion-board. So as you can notice....I am Learning just as all here. I can Asure you...One Can Learn very very Much here. I have found that Everyone has their "Specialty(s)"....which I find very very Healthy...for walking Up our Ladder of Wisdom and Knowledge. As you can see..I Am just As Everyone else here. Enjoy the Wisdom and Knowledge...you Gain here. You will Not regret it...I asure you. BTW: The 'Search-Board'...on the Leftside of your browser...is a very Helpful tool...in finding what you may need to know or looking for. But as you can see...you can also post your postings on this board..and One who has the Knowledge to your question will gladly answer. Edward. | ||
Jean Pierre Lagasse |
Hi Edward, "...Still at the 'Botton' of the Ladder" Sorry Sir... but no such thing!!! You are very equal to the rest of us in all respects !! I very much enjoy your posts... and quite frankly, (just my own opinion as always) they are very often more "sane" than some/most of the posts I've read !! I truly apologize for the "flowers"... but I think/hope you understand. Salome, JP | ||
Edward |
Hi Jean Pierre.. What can I say? You leave me "Speachless". I have No words at the moment for your Friendly and Great compliments...alas. But I Enjoy your Wisdom and Knowledge also very Greatly. Please Enjoy the Flowers also... Edward | ||
Inger Wikstrom |
Hello all, Is our Earth the only place in the Universe that is inhabited by people who practice some kind of religion? If not, do the Christian religion exist on other planets than our Earth? Kind regards, Inger | ||
James the truthseeker |
Greetings Inger, It's interesting that you would ask this because I seem to remember hearing something somewhere mentioned that the Christian religion has destroyed other planets. This doesn't make any sense to me if the Earth human beings who are Christian have no way of leaving the Earth or even reincarnating on other planets according to the Plejarans. After all, Saul-Paul, Jmmanuel and the like where Earth People. Perhaps it is so that ETs who have manipulated Earth human beings by means of the Christian religion, could have also in turn tried this very same thing on other less evolved planets using the same Characters. If anyone knows anything more about this, then please let me know. Thanks, James | ||
JPLagasse |
Hi Inger, Hopefully, this answers your questions !! Pierre MESSAGE FROM THE PLEIADES Steven's Translations: Book 1 Pages 319, 320 (Important: There are translation errors in these texts. Please also note the omissions as indicated by the line numbers !! Please support FIGU's official translation project !!) 31st Contact Thursday, 17 July 1975 10: 14h "... Meier- Yes. Okay, I thought so. But what about the pre- 319 tentions then, that humans have received messages from Angels or from God, etc., by inspirations? Ptaah- 207/In a few cases, such inspirations are true, but they never contain religious information. 208/Religions exist solely on your own Earth. They do not exist anywhere else in the Universe. 211/Some space-traveling people have brought Earth religions to other planets but only for the purpose of studying them. Meier- Those are strong words. We are told on Earth, especially by the Christians, that Jesus Christ is the actual master and ruler of all the worlds in the Universe. He is regarded as a God incarnate and is seen as equal to The Creation itself. What can you say about this? Ptaah- 214/We know these delusions of your world, but consider if it were true, which is impossible, then in all probability not the human beings of Earth would be the race to whom would be allocated the task of publishing a religion. 216/As, for many milleniums on many worlds of the Universe, the Earth human represents the most materialistic creature development, deficient in spiritual evolution for the run of milleniums. 217/It is a known fact on many worlds, that the Earth human being defies (real) spiritual growth and develops himself only within gross materialism. It would really be a paradox of supreme magnitude if such an one, among those available, were chosen for such universal destiny (and he can not even leave his planet or system). 218/ But in spite of this, the Earth human abrogates to himself the immeasurable arrogance of this presumtion while he revels in his materialistic mania of which we know no equal. 219/ This, precisely, is a real danger, for as soon as the Earth human becomes master of the technologies for space-drive and travels to strange worlds, and brings them by power of his weapons or lies or deceit under his control, so also will he include in his doing, the crazy spread of his religion to his conquests, and the existing universal harmony will be destroyed. 221/This means that the still guaranteed peace would be destroyed by your religions and degenerate to murderous wars and great destruction. (16) 222/And just to prevent this occurence is a great and difficult mission for spiritually developed space-traveling forms of life... " |
