Archive for 2003

Author Message Norm Member Post Number: 528 Registered: 02-2000 Posted on Monday, March 10, 2003 - 06:14 am:        "Did Billy ever mention Ezekiel anywhere?" To answer my own question, Yes! I found out that Billy mentions Ezekiel in his book From the Depths of Outer Space, and confirms that he had a contact with ET's. Edward Member Post Number: 234 Registered: 05-2002 Posted on Tuesday, March 11, 2003 - 01:36 am:        Hi Norm... Yes, I remember you asking this question. Good to Acknowledge that Ezekiel was a "True Contactee"! Well, I always had a Feeling there was much Truth in his Experiences(with ET's). Well done Norm. Edward. Jan New member Post Number: 1 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Monday, April 07, 2003 - 02:38 am:        An interesting recent observation from sociology lesson in Prague An older professor talked about a topic: Kinds of deviations, reasons, consequences, normality and what’s “relatively” normal in society here and there from sociology standpoint. He narrated in a quite unique, interesting speech, using lots of wisdom, experiences, being-through etc. When he touched upon the problems of negative deviations of people he brightly did not leave out to mention the other side of the coin; positive deviations… and guess what such a positive sociologic deviation may be… nothing less than being saint… Listeners bursted out laughing… 8-) Michael_d Member Post Number: 10 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Friday, April 25, 2003 - 10:16 pm:        Greetings! Has Billy Meier or the Plejarans ever identified the true author of the writings known as the “Book of Revelation”? Is there any value in reading this book? Norm Member Post Number: 546 Registered: 02-2000 Posted on Saturday, April 26, 2003 - 10:41 am:        Michael, My last question to Billy. What's the real story behind John, who wrote the Book of Revelation in the Bible? Answer Hi Norm, Billy does not know the story behind the Book of Revelation, except that it is about the visions of a human being. However, this "book" was not written by a John, but by some scribes, which, by the way, has also happened regarding all other biblical books. Emmanuel New member Post Number: 4 Registered: 04-2003 Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2003 - 09:52 am:        Hello Norm, Michael et al Does anyone know anything about Buddha, that is his enlightenment and passing into Nirvana? What does Billy know about this? I know he claims all religions are false. Does he, therefore, claim that story of Buddha attaining enlightenment is also false? Could he not have passed into Nirvana? Is it possible that Siddharta Gotoma had a spirit as old as billy's spirit is supposed to be - 86 billion years old - and that in passing into Nirvana he passed into the spirit level Arahat Athersata? Can anyone help with this? Pureharmony Member Post Number: 82 Registered: 08-2002 Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2003 - 02:06 am:        The vision of Wisdom ; Enoch prophecies- Shortened [Chapter 39] [And it shall come to pass in those days that elect and holy children will descend from the high heaven, and their seed will become one with the children of men. And in those days Enoch received books of zeal and wrath, and books of disquiet and expulsion.]And mercy shall not be accorded to them, saith the Lord of Spirits. And in those days a whirlwind carried me off from the earth,And set me down at the end of the heavens. And there I saw another vision, the dwelling-places of the holy,And the resting-places of the righteous.Here mine eyes saw their dwellings with His righteous angels, And their resting-places with the holy. And they petitioned and interceded and prayed for the children of men,And righteousness flowed before them as water,And mercy like dew upon the earth:Thus it is amongst them for ever and ever. Shortened heaven=space angels=people in flying in vehicles PH, I discussed the nature of your post and length with one of the other moderators and decided it should be shortened just a bit. This in part is due to the new guidelines, which mention posts of articles from Non-FIGU sources will be reduced in length. Also, maybe it would clarify your position if you stated the intent of your post. I would also recommend reading the OM (Canon 31) in which Henok speaks of Asasel and Semjasa the leaders of the “fallen Angels”–ET’s Thanks, Scott *pureharmony* TJ 5:4 "Blessed are those who endure hardship, for they shall thus recognize the truth and be comforted" Norm Member Post Number: 555 Registered: 02-2000 Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2003 - 06:57 pm:        Did anyone hear about this guy J. F. Rutherford who was the second president of the Watchtower Society, the organization governing Jehovah's Witnesses. He wrote a book called Reconciliation that claims the Pleiades Constellation is the "place of the eternal throne of God." Lonnie Member Post Number: 8 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Friday, May 09, 2003 - 12:28 pm:        Hi Norm, Yes, the Watchtower Society (Jehovah's Witnessess) has constantly changed and revised their doctrines over the years. However, they have always held onto the false belief that God is Creation personified, (named Jehovah) and has a certain location in the universe where he resides. When I was with the organiztion I heard nothing about Jehovah residing in the Pleiades, only that he sat on his throne in the highest heavens. Lonnie Edward Member Post Number: 256 Registered: 05-2002 Posted on Saturday, May 10, 2003 - 03:02 am:        Hi Norm... Yes, I am Famliar with Mr.J. F. Rutherford and the Watchtower Society of The Jehovahs. I am not familiar with his book though; but again he and his Society(Christian Based) are Adding More Untruths to "The Myth" sothat Man can be "Mislead" even More....Once Again! Asif the Damages they have Already Done and Caused..is not enough! Once Again...it Shows how Man is being Driven and Directed...into even More "Darkeness"..In Body and Spirit...alas. Unless, Mr.J.F.Ruthford...is seeing "The Light" of the Essence of Man on earth? He is Truely Correct when mentioned in his titled book "Reconciliation" that claims the Pleiades Constellation is the "place of the eternal throne of God." Do We not Know..and Acknowledge..that Mr.Jahovah (alais Ruler Mr. Jahovan The Barbar(ic)..) is of Outlawed ancestory. And Mislead the So-Called Jahovahs Cults(in those times on earth) and so forth. Truely, He(Jahovan The Barbar(ic)..) Did originate from the Pleiades Constallation. As did his Whole Regime of Rulers...manipulating the Low Evolved Human Beings on earth in those times...as Semjase made very Clear in the conctact notes. When will The Jahovahs Acknowledge "The Truth"... and See "The Light"...than to See.."The Darkness" ...that Is in their False Teachings(Man Made... Once Agin!)...and Surrounding them. Edward. Pureharmony Member Post Number: 83 Registered: 08-2002 Posted on Saturday, May 10, 2003 - 04:23 pm:        The purpose of my last post was, the entire passage in 'The vision of Wisdom' is the Henok prophecy which i believe refers to Billy directly, as the 'lord of spirits', and the Plejarans are reffered to as 'holy children' from 'heaven'. Since this posting section is Non-figu/religion, I thought the post was rather appropriate here, although the context of the entire post is lost since shortened. Since the HENOK prophecy may come to pass, i just thought certain religious peoples visiting here would benefit from the whole of the post. Sorry. Hi PH, Thank you for your explaination, possibly a new section can be set up for the type of posting you wanted to share. I'll check with Christian and see what can be done. Scott *pureharmony* TJ 5:4 "Blessed are those who endure hardship, for they shall thus recognize the truth and be comforted" Howard Member Post Number: 21 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Sunday, August 03, 2003 - 11:32 am:        According to my views, one must study each religion severly(is this the right word? im not to good in english). Thats why im gonna take religion on the university this year. and i mean its wrong to say that people are fooled by religion, because there are so many thruths in all of them. Thats what i dislike about the meier-case. Its to excluding.It claims to have the ansvers on everything. And that must be wrong. History cannot be perfecly written in a book. It can only LEAD people to the truth. Before i was "saved" as i would cal it, i had a complete materialistic view on the world, and therefore i mean that christianity was kind of a gateway into the spiritual realms. And i am deeply thankfull for that. It so easy to be confused by religion. Thats why i mean that christianity is a simple way to the truth, and an stable psyche, at least in my case. Open for discussion, Howard Markc Member Post Number: 36 Registered: 06-2000 Posted on Sunday, August 03, 2003 - 08:08 pm:        Howard , as you say , " It so easy to be confused by religion ". Truly the 'blind leading the blind' .....a classic case of multiple theft . The religious fanatics of the time stole Jmmanuel's manuscript , and it's the theft that keeps on taking . Quote mine . Truthseeker Member Post Number: 38 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 12:43 am:        Greetings Howard, At least you are beginning to ask the right questions weather you choose to be a Christian or not. I tried the Christian thing once too as it looked like an easy way bury all of life's problems into one single box, but these problems did not go away until I took my own self responsibility. As ideal as Christian theology was, there was a lot that felt missing. I soon discovered there were many different ways to quote single passages in the bible while ignoring the others. While reading the Bible outside of Bible study, I found contradictions. When I was in my teens to early 20s, I had the privilege of visiting many different religions while being a part of a multi-cultural organization. It was great and I wouldn't have missed it for the world! During this time from high school to collage-university, I majored in the arts such as anthropology, philosophy, sociology, astronomy, psychology, physics, etc. When I completed this, I continued my own studies into the paranormal where UFOs peaked my interests. At age 24, I discovered Billy Meier and FIGU and that was a very long in depth study in itself, but I very much enjoyed it most. By what you are saying Howard, it sounds like you aren't quite ready for FIGU in much the same way a student from High school may not be ready for university. You may be jumping in here way to quickly with out the right curriculum. I suggest that you do the same as me in your own self exploration. Visit all the different dominations of churches, mosques, temples, shrines, synagogues, cathedrals, tao holy houses, aboriginal pow-wows, secret lodges, pagen rituals, wellness fairs, whole life expos, psychic fairs, new age workshops, etc. Read all their holy books, but stay away from new age channeling. Experience it all and NEVER stop! Do in depth university studies into Fine Arts, Literature, theology, Anthropology, philosophy, astrology, archeology, sociology, astronomy, psychology and physics, etc. Keep a journal of everything you learn and experience. Read as many books on the subjects as possible and talk with the authors, if you can. After a few years, then you should be ready for FIGU as long as you're open to all possibilities of reality with an open mind. Peace in wisdom, -Truthseeker Norm Member Post Number: 595 Registered: 02-2000 Posted on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 02:52 pm:        David_chance, I am listening to an audio version of the Koran and it reads just like the Fire & Brimstone Bible I'm amazed how simular they are. I moved this over to the Religion thread. Howard Member Post Number: 27 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 06:33 am:        Hi, thruthseeker, I am really with an open mind, and for a couple of years I was kind of not a christian, even though I have had an experience of it before. It was only that I felt something was missing from the FIGU teachings. The simplicity of christianity, and the complexity of the talmud is something I want to compare and study, along with the spiritual teachings. I feel ready for it, and I feel as early as I begin studying it, the more I will get out of it.I think a lot in the FIGU community will agree with that also. But I eventhough feel a strong connection to christianity, since everytime I go into church, i feel different things, along with other things. Not to mention atlant Bieri who is close to Billy Meier, I think he is studiying the spiritual teatchings to. To compare is always good, and to be critical is something Billy is saying is good. He states that one should never actually believe what he says, only study it with an open mind. Howard Pureharmony Member Post Number: 88 Registered: 08-2002 Posted on Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 11:48 am:        I just learned of the Catholic plot against Buddism. I dont agree with this, as the Catholic church is trying to force their religion on these Buddists, and to change their core belief system. See this link: http:// ww.geocities.com/cynthias2_07042/BudLtr1.html This is truly a form of mental control, in my opinion, that they are trying to exercise. I find this very unsettling news. *pureharmony* Truthseeker Member Post Number: 40 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 01:34 pm:        Grettings Howard, Perhaps that which you feel is missing is the so called explanation regarding the "emotional high" a person experiences when they declare themselves "born again" into the Christian religion. I know now what really causes this but I leave it now up to you to figure it out if you have not already. Also you may get the same experiences and feelings if you visit temples and so on as you do in the churches. -Truthseeker Howard Member Post Number: 35 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Saturday, August 09, 2003 - 02:07 pm:        I dont think I would get the same experiences and feelings if I visited temples and so on. The " emotional high" I got came by pure coincidece, by kind of an "accident"(!). I just pictured christ dying for my sins and there it was. A sensational feeling, filling my whole body, right there! I cant believe this can be put in kind of a cathegory or a term. That was just to special to me. I'd bet you would say the same thing to, if you have had that experience. Howard Truthseeker Member Post Number: 41 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Sunday, August 10, 2003 - 02:18 am:        Actually Howard, That "emotional high" experienced by many so called "born again" Christians is caused by a collective of many peoples religious beliefs used to create a massive thought form of emotional energy and so much so that any individual can experience this on their own in places where Christians frequent themselves in or near churches. Some of them call it "holy spirit" or "Christ consciousness". But Christians are by far not the only ones to be spell bound by this emotional high as many practitioners of yoga claim to experience "Saamadhi"; an ecstasy state of being during meditation when chanting the names of various Deities or Hindu Gods. Some of them call it "God consciousness". Perhaps it should not come as any surprise that Christians dancing to songs of praise to their lord Jesus, really are not all that much different then those who do the same while dancing and chanting the names of Deities in temples. Visit a Hare Krishna temple during one of their sermons and you will know exactly what I'm talking about. They call this "Krishna consciousness". Visit a Tao holy house and you can experience this emotional energy of bliss yet again where it is called "experiencing Tao". Catholics who see apparitions of the virgin Mary and Jesus along with experiencing stigmata also claim to experience a kind of ecstasy even-though that's getting into something a bit different of which I'm well aware of. Aboriginal Shamans get this emotional energy going during a sun dance or pow-wow where they claim to experience vision quests of the "great spirit". Observe the enormous energy present during a rock music concert. Take that further and study the human effects of mind control by inducing mass hysteria. A friend of mine at Mt Shasta demonstrated to me that if you get a large audience to focus on a fork or spoon, then these objects will get hot and bend. The same can also be done for healing people in churches, temples, etc, and much more. This is why I feel the human mind is being wasted on religion when it can be put to more productive uses. As in Tibetan Dzogchen, "Many people focused in the name of creation can do many incredible wonders and much more". You don't need a church or a religion to experience a miracle. Peace in wisdom, -Truthseeker Prometheus New member Post Number: 2 Registered: 08-2003 Posted on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 01:42 am:        Hallo again Enoch here from down under. I was raised a Mormon and only recently found out Josef Smith was a freemason. David Ike writes about massonic influance on culture. He claims the watchtower society was also created by a freemason. The US constitution was writen by freemasons and the Royal socity was founded by freemasons. It seems the Freemasons were the reconstituted Kights Templer and gained there information from there time in the Holy land. It seems that occult knowledge has been handed down from the Gods of old. This is the root of Paganism. I believe it is against this force that the spiritual masters of old were against. The teachings of these sages were corrupted by the occult. However if one looks through the dogma of religion at the core can be found True spirituality. I believe this is what billys friends are encouraging us to rediscover. The answers we seek can be found inside ourselves. Seeking answers from others is not helpfull for our evolution. Billys Friends want us to stand on our own to feet. Howard Member Post Number: 60 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 11:42 am:        Ephesians 6 "For we are not contending against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world rulers of this present darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places." Meaning space. Christianity is warned about extra-terrestrials bringing alternative views on the bible and all its contents. All I`ve ever read about extra-terrestrials have been presenting some views which hasnt fitted with the bible. And why has it not? Cannot the extra-terrestrials handle the information given to us by the Lord? Could it be that we low-evoluted people of this world have been given the greatest gift of all? I leave it all up to you in your search for "the truth", haha Howard Member Post Number: 61 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 02:10 pm:        We share different beliefs James, and I belive that the Apostels were filled with the holy spirit when they healed people, waked people and animals up from the dead, writing letters, etc etc. What you call it "the emotional high", which I find ridicolus, I mean the true meaning of LOVE from God, the everlasting peace and knowledge about the lord, biblesentences popping up in youre head in notime for no cause eventhough youve never heard them as some have had the experience of, etc. There are to many different manifestations of the Holy Spirit, and I surely didnt go for any meditation or singing or extacy feeling to get the love of it. It seems creation needs to to be "tapped" for love, but God just gives it freely to every one who just asks for it. And remember, the utmost sin is to ( i only have a wordbook here) mock at, deride, scoff at the Holy Spirit! I feel I had to say that, eventhough you people seem to say that chritianity is based on fear, which I mean is built on love, and the holy spirit is built on love, and is coming directly from the father, it would be quite a sin to be directly cruel on which so many people trust in their everyday life and recon as thruth. Just as you people kind of blindly belive INFORMATION you get from extra-terrestrials. If you have testable letters and evangeliums and testable spiritual experiences, which is available at all times for the everyday man/woman, that should count more than just a plainly unthinkable theory, and spiritual experiences who has to come with longtime-effort and study of a millionyear long teaching of a perdiotional sort. The spiritual teachings can be a way to a spiritual schizophrenia. When you can just picture something, just in the wild, without expecting anything, how can you get something as large out of it? A collective conciousness-theory cant stand as a theory here, its to strong to be just spiritual power from the everyday man. The Holy Spirit is so unimaginably much more. I truly hope you will experience it sometime. Howard Truthseeker Member Post Number: 53 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 01:43 pm:        Greetings, I'm rewriting this post as for some reason it didn't go through from my computer. Greetings Howard, I'm not just talking from belief anymore as yourself such as what you will assume, I'm now talking of scientifically proven facts. Yes there are many different manifestations of the holy spirit as you call it except we call it CREATION! Creation manifests itself in all different ways, just look around you and see it for yourself. Obviously Christians need to "Tap" into this love of creation by going into prayer, reading their Bible, going to churches and singing Hymns, and all for something they say is giving out so freely. You can't tell me Howard that you didn't partake in these activities and practices. Well creation does give itself out freely if you let it during a good focused meditation! Sin is an absence of knowing which eventually leads the blind of thinking into conflicts and eventually to its own death. There is an old saying that goes; "If God created religion then Satan organized it". Look at all the conflicts resulting in Ireland with Christian terrorists on both sides. It's not just the Muslims you know. Christianity is based on fear when I hear words like, "That's Satan talking in your head!", "Without Christ you're going to burn in hell and Gods going to break your bones boy"! Sounds like fear to me and if you go looking for the devil behind every tree, then YES you are likely to find it as something represented in your beliefs. Finally, I'm not just talking about information taken from extra-terrestrials, I'm now talking about SCIENTIFICALLY proven facts! you see Howard, there is something in science called THE ONE-HUNDRED MONKEY EFFECT which proves that new learned or taught behavior to a certain large number of monkeys will create an effect of adopted same new behaviors on other monkeys as far away as different counties. Large groups of people speaking in tongues sounds more to me like collective spiritual schizophrenia then just reading and agreeing with information written from Billy Meier. Call it what you will as new age channeling really is not all that much different. I've scientifically seen what collective consciousness can do. Get together about 1000 to 1500 or more people in a church or hall and place a spoon on the table in front of them. Get everyone to think a really pure positive thought involving love, or a positive experience they once had and then ask them to direct this thought into the spoon. The spoon will heat up and bend. Put an injured person in front, get the audience to focus these same positive thoughts on the persons injury with the added intent to heal and watch the injured person rise from his or her wheelchair! Many well known priests and gurus know this trick and can actually perform healings of all sorts through the "collective emotional highs" of the people. It's an old common trick and people still FALL for it. Energy is energy. In case you haven't noticed Howard, Christianity teaches people to become sheeple. -Truthseeker Edward Member Post Number: 316 Registered: 05-2002 Posted on Monday, September 15, 2003 - 03:14 am:        Hi Howard and My Good Friend James... This being my last post for this week... Very Correct James...; Well, speaking of "Satan", just this weekend I just happened to be Zapping away and I just happen to stop at some Christian-Power-Hour..of some sort, and there was a reverend-"Dollars"....Yes... "Mr.Dollars"... speaking about: "Your 'Temptations' which is doen by The Hand of Satan and How you Can Suppress it!" Well, here we go Again, Giving Old Man Satan..The Devil...the Blame for Your Own Stupid Acts of Naivety! We are living in The Year 2003...and They Are Still Giving Mr.Satan The Blame! Rediculous..and Surely...Un-Knowing. And he preaches(Mr.Dollars)...asif HE(and all the others on that "Show") Knows All the answers! And the "Sheep-Heard"...Taking The Bate!(Pity - Many Seem like Nice people) Well, they are FAR....from being a True "Jschwjsch", which they can Only Dream of. Pity Grown-Up Adults like him and the others on "The Show"...Still "Believe"...in an Angel on one side of the shoulder...and The Devil...on the other. Still...Beliving in a Childhood Fantasy.....thus, herefrom..One can Acknowledge and come to Conclusion..; they are Still "Infantile" in Mind and Spirit.., and will stay so..as long as they Live-up to those Biblical Lies...of Deception. Well, I guess...it's the Same Old Song, as once is said: "If God Created Music....Well, than Satan Created The Blues!" And as The Church defining The Blues(and anything Others than Gospel) as being Music of The Devil/Satan...well in What Else can we give Mr.Satan to blame? Perhaps to blame The Churches "Igonoramus" additude Towards..TURE Knowledge...and Thinking. 2003....and They have Still NOT Learned much from their Bible; but what else can One expect, from a Book Of Lies, which Blocks...the Evolution and Developement of Man's Spirits. And for them to Debunk..True Teachings Of The Spirit. Well, I Will Stick to "The True Teachings Of The Spirit", and Not to The "FALSE" Teaching Of The Bible! Thus, Enriching My Spirit with True Spiritual Teachings! In The TURE Sense of the word! "Long Live The Blues!(With or Without...The Devil/Satan!)" "Thank Creation For Giving Man The GIFT..Of Creating Music...A 'Universal' Language...(and The Blues - and All Other Good Music!)" Edward. Gicayhwh Member Post Number: 15 Registered: 06-2003 Posted on Monday, September 15, 2003 - 05:25 pm:        Good point, Edward, Gica V02587 Member Post Number: 6 Registered: 09-2003 Posted on Monday, September 15, 2003 - 10:42 pm:        With out an enemy there wouldnt be any monkeys holding the baskets. Joseph_emmanuel Member Post Number: 41 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Tuesday, September 16, 2003 - 12:49 am:        I was speaking to a Muslim friend just yesterday who referred me to a site that explained all about Islam. He wanted me to understand that Islam is not how it is portrayed in the Media, or by the Muslim terrorists who profess to follow Islam and kill in the name of ‘Allah’. Islam, he was saying, is about peace and tolerance. I listened attentively and had even visited the site of which he spoke and downloaded a couple of essays about terrorism and the proof of the existence of god. He hopes to convert me because he sees that I am a man who thinks, inquires and reasons, something that Mohammed taught, he informs me; a fragment of the true teachings, I thought to myself. Then he started speaking about the return of Jesus, and how he will break the cross and kill the swine, and judge those who don’t believe in Allah and follow his laws. I asked him when will this happen? He said any time now. So I said, if it doesn’t happen in the next ten years, you’ll still say the same thing. And if he hasn’t appeared in fifty years, you’ll say it again; and when a hundred years has passed, or a thousand years, it’ll be the same answer. No one knows when it will happen, he said. The truth is, I said, you’re not even open to his return. Though you believe in it, though you speak of it, your heart and mind are closed to it. Let us say that Jesus was to return. Let us say that he is in the world right now, and he is a true Muslim, preaching the Quran as you know it, and he can’t be faulted by your standards, then he says to you, ‘I am Jesus, the one of whom it was spoken will return to the world and break the cross and kill the swine.’ You won’t accept it, because you will see just a man before you, and you will say that he is mad. Other Muslims would even probably attempt to kill him were he to make himself known to them. Yet you speak of his return. On what grounds, then, will you accept it? On the grounds that he proves his claims to be true, he said. So I said to him, it always strikes me as ironic when you ask for proof from others, yet don’t seek it from your own religion, and expect others to accept it on faith also. I pity you because you speak so fondly of the prophets, and I know that you don’t want to be deceived and misled, but your faith causes you to be deceived and misled. You speak of the return of a prophet and you don’t even know that he is already in the world because you don’t look, and because your mind is closed to the truth. You say you ask for proof, but all you ask for is confirmation of your own beliefs and understanding. Thus already in your heart you have condemned him, though to your knowledge he has not yet set foot in the world. Markc Member Post Number: 73 Registered: 06-2000 Posted on Tuesday, September 16, 2003 - 03:30 pm:        I agree Edward . Sounds ,as well as Looks can be deceiving ( meaning that they can be the most trustworthy and appear not to be ). Mark Howard Member Post Number: 64 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Tuesday, September 16, 2003 - 03:37 pm:        The emotional highs you are talking about are nothing else than positive thought, and it has to be concentrated and focused by peoples weak spirits. And is gathering together 1000 1500 people really that impressive to bend a little spoon? How can the sacraments be a way to true joy and happiness(the holy spirit). Once I saw one talking in tounges, and he said, "I am the Creation in the Creation" or something like that, problably not translated right. I found that quite beautifull. I dont know why you always come with that same old negative propaganda against christianity involving Satan and stupid mixing of politics and religion, which has nothing to do with the spiritual part of it. As to you Edward, I must agree that I find a lot of preachers preach quite alot of crap, but ive felt evil forces on my self involved in some experiences of mine, and that i recon is only because i am in a possesion of enlightenment and knowledge of God spiritually. The devil never shows himself to the non-religious man, but deceives him and misleads him, by impulses and false truths. Guiding impulses will be used for something positive in the future. He shows himself and scares the hell out of some christians, thats for sure. I know this. Thats why christians are so scared of hell, they know there are evil forces, the bible describes them, they are not just falsified and called "negative psychic conditions". I mean that there is so much into religion, there is so much mystical things that has happened throughout history. To just call all this mumbo-jumbo in no-time is far out, especially whats happened to christianity. You can practice your meditation, you can gain your wisdom, you can learn your spiritual insights, but hold yourself to the truth! The Talmud and the rest of the biblical explanations is so far out and so hopelessly unforgiveable to God, when they KNOW it isnt the truth. Der_beobachter Member Post Number: 11 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Tuesday, September 16, 2003 - 06:23 pm:        Hi Howard, The Easter Bunny, Pinochio,Tweedledum and Tweedledee, Humpty Dumpty and also Santa Claus in person...they just happened to pass by my house moments ago and then they got the chance to ask me to give this message to you Howard: I said to them ok then if you are asking me then I will do this favor to you my dear Fairy tales characters. But the funny thing was that I thougth I was fully awake then I woke up to see if I was sleeping and yes I was sleepin' and realized yes I was really sleepin' indeed... So there it goes: "The Christian lives in a nightmare and thinks it is a pleasant dream. It is no accident that the symbol of a bishop is a crook, and the sign of an archbishop is a double-cross." Anonymous "Religion is a monumental chapter in the history of human egotism." [William James (1842-1910) American philosopher and psychologist] "In every country and in every age, the priest has always been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own." - Thomas Jefferson, 1814. "Religion is something left over from the infancy of our intelligence, it will fade away as we adopt reason and science as our guidelines." - Bertrand Russell. "...And when I found the door was locked, I pulled and pushed and kicked and knocked. And when I found the door was shut, I tried to turn the handle, but--'" Humpty Dumpty - Alice in Wonderland. "Laugh is the Best Medicine against Howardians religious preachers." Listen Howard bzz bzz..bzz and bzz..understood? Der Beobachter Edelweiß Truthseeker Member Post Number: 56 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Tuesday, September 16, 2003 - 09:47 pm:        Greetings Howard, The emotional highs I'm talking about are the thought forms created by a large number of people believing in Jesus. Obviously you seem to have made up your mind regarding being a Christian. If so then just remember one thing. Next time you have an experience with the holy spirit with Jesus quoting the Bible in your mind, then please consider that if not from the collective thoughs of everyone in the church, then perhaps it really is Satan infuincing you and the whole church again. In this case Satan is a created thought form from the fears of countless numbers of Christians that keep it alive. -Truthseeker Howard Member Post Number: 65 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 07:20 am:        No you will not destroy what I am experiencing as real truthseeker. Since you happen to never have experienced this, as I am sorry for you, you can never understand this. Christians aint keeping it alive, its God! Billy Meier just has happened to destroyed your heads regarding this. Your fantasy has been destroyed. Logic has destroyed your sense of what could be real, eventhough it isnt that logical as it may seem. Your delusional talk about satan is just silly. Is my "thought form" based on fear? I certainly dont think so. Thats a misinterpretation of yours. Fear has nothing to do with my belief to do, eventhough one can be given warnings by God. In the first place, nothing is based by fear, its based on joy and happiness. The bible is the book of redemption, not a book of lies as billy says it is. What a statement by the way! David_chance Member Post Number: 6 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 01:58 pm:        Howard, “Christians are so scared of hell” because they’ve been told repeatedly that if they don’t believe the basic tenets of the particular sect they belong to that they will spend eternity being tormented & tortured in a place that is the imagination of masochistic misanthropic people who love to hate & despise others. What better way to dominate and control someone than to fill them with constant fear and dread. Fear of hell, fear of being left behind when “the rapture” happens, fear of becoming a “lost soul”. Prejudice and hatred can be instilled and spread in so many ways, but to me the most insidious is religion. Insidious: “operating or proceeding in an inconspicuous or seemingly harmless way but actually with grave effect”. Follow my religion or you will go to hell and suffer pain for all eternity. Are you sure you are following the correct religion since the others also claim the same? Is your mind free to think and explore and scrutinize or are you constrained by your religious beliefs into avoiding certain avenues of thought? I think your words and proselytizing on this discussionboard are like eggs being thrown at a wall…it won’t affect the wall, but it will certainly waste the eggs. Markc Member Post Number: 74 Registered: 06-2000 Posted on Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 06:50 pm:        Can we give Mr. Chance 10 stars ? Actually David , the prosletyzers will have free reign over the forum , because to do otherwise would be to overhandedly control things by the "home team" . I understand the concept behind this , and agree with it by intention ; however , it seems that after awhile the point has been made and it gets really old . We have the option of ignoring posts from religious fanatics and their blind rantings . Communicating with them will lead to nothing , and I am being positive , with that . Mark Moderator: Proselytizers will not have free reign over the forum. Anybody who applies for an account has the right to post in the forum, but there will always be a cut-off point if they appear to have motives other than the learning and sharing of information related to FIGU. This has happened before and it will likely happen again. But for the record, a warning to any person(s) who is in this forum for reasons other than to honestly learn and share FIGU related information: Your active account days will certainly be numbered. Howard Member Post Number: 66 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 03:54 am:        I dont understand why you call me a religious fanatic. I dont have any fanatical beliefs. When Thruthseeker says the Holy Spirit is just bogus one has to argue about it, doesnt one? I feel I have to. Its basic in my religion, and it will forever be. I hope you respect that. That doesnt make me a religious fanatic. Also, im not that Adam and Eve kind of Creation-like christian, so I would not call my self a fanatic in that way either. Far off. I just have to have a different view on the spiritual teachings, and ofcourse the biblical teachings. I think you people are "logical fanatics" to put it in a humorous way. You have no backing evidence to defend the talmud, and you are so sure it is real. You are actually going to spread this thing around the world as truth! It also seems as you kind of are getting angry of religious persons, and that is kind of sad, because most parts of humans today are religious, and will be in a long time from now. Christianity will become more like a hidden society, when we will problably be persecuted for our beliefs. Throwing eggs at a wall, well well. At least I think you should read a little more in the bible and the writings to see the great differences between the Talmud and the NT. For those not a christian, the bible is full of contradictions. For those who are, they are full of great secrets hidden in all great-times. Michael Member Post Number: 406 Registered: 10-2000 Posted on Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 11:39 am:        Howard, Perhaps you're not familiar with the enormous amount of research and comparison done, on the Talmud and the New Testament, by James Deardorff. You can find it at: http://www.proaxis.com/~deardorj/index.htm Unfortunately one fo the core problems with most religions and Bibles is that one has to believe it's true because "it says so in the Bible". In other words, with no other proof, we are told that it's the truth because the book says that the book is the truth! This is certainly where a lot of us "logical fanatics" come in and call into question the logic of a thing being true simply because it says that it is. I think that if you read Mr. Deardorff's work you will understand a bit more about the whole matter. Michael Horn Markc Member Post Number: 75 Registered: 06-2000 Posted on Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 07:50 pm:        I have always respected and learned from the various religions , Buddhism , Hindiuism ," this -ism , that-ism , all we are saying is give peace a chance ". One not more than the other , that's for sure . It was only recently that I realised that all the foremost teachings are related , and yet not all-truthful like some of them insist that they are . I was raised in a predominantly christian society and received instruction in a way that is unimportant to me now . From Hinduism , reincarnation , from Buddhism , meditation , from Judaism , to take it easy on pork and to only date jewish girls , from Islam to respect other's beliefs and never question another's faith ( I recognize faith as a concept of it's own ; as in: "faith that the sun will rise tomorrow" etc.) and from christmas , to be of good cheer and drink wassel ( along with select quotes that made sense to me , I won't be redundant here).And from the rastafaris , to not worry , but embrace happiness ( copyright -Bobby Mcferrin). If I have neglected to mention one religion or another , it's all the same . Rather than get mixed up in the classical mess , I think it's rather best to go by your instincts , and if you did get snared by the sectarian claims ,the sincere wish that you may find the truth , and find it for yourself , one thought at at a time , with a little assistance from friends that permit you to pass ( idea -Lennon/McCartney). drive safely on your way home , Mark Savio Member Post Number: 440 Registered: 07-2000 Posted on Friday, September 19, 2003 - 01:49 am:        Hi Howard and all While discussing religion in another forum, we arrived to some common understandings, I would like to share it here: 1. We regard all issues that cannot be repeatedly verified to be theories, legends and something yet to be proven. All these theories…etc. should never be called “truths” or preached as truths. This is only common sense. 2. Up to now, no one is able to prove successfully the existence of god. This is just a real life reality and fact. 3. “The use of one’s heart/mind to feel/prove the existence of god” is unreliable. This is because no one can prove what he feels is the true god and what others feel is a false god, say Christian Vs Moslem. 4. Usually, the main reason that one believes in a religion is due to fate. That is, where he is born, where he lives, where he is educated, who are his friends and his social environment play a major role in shaping him as a believer. Thus, he is not much of himself, he does not really have a choice, hence he does not bear a strong responsibility even when he believes in a false religion. 5. The saying “If you do not believe in XX, then you will end up in hell” is not reasonable. This is because of the reason stated in 4. above. As most of the believers are shaped by their environment, hence eternal punishment for those who firmly believed that they serve the true god is totally unreasonable. 6. If “If you do not believe in XX, then you will end up in hell” is for real, then god is being unreasonable and that is impossible. If that statement is false, then the saying “XX is the only truth and salvation” is just not true. If we consider the above six points, link it up with our beliefs, we will soon find out what our present situation is. Happy searching Savio Howard Member Post Number: 69 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Friday, September 19, 2003 - 07:09 am:        Michael, you can also look on Ĺke Eldbergs website; http://home.swipnet.se/corbie/Fuskwww/index.html, which tries to explain why the talmud is full of holes. Its quite interesting. I guess he could have done more about the talmud if he cared, but he has so many other evangeliums to take care of, as there is so many other alternatives who tries to make the bible sound false. The Talmud is nothing new Im afraid. He also take care of Jim Deardorffs website. Howard Truthseeker Member Post Number: 57 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Friday, September 19, 2003 - 10:15 am:        Greetings Howard, Ĺke Eldbergs obviously did not take these websites into consideration: http://www.thebiblefraud.com http://www.nexusmagazine.com/biblefraud1.html Which also explains why the BIBLE is full of holes. That should be enough to take care of Ĺke Eldberg's website. -Truthseeker Edward Member Post Number: 317 Registered: 05-2002 Posted on Saturday, September 20, 2003 - 11:39 am:        Hi Howard and My Good FIGU Friends of this discussion-board... Howard....I see that Ĺke Eldbergs...is a "Man-Made" scholar(or not), thus Not a True "Spiritual" Interpretor..Thus Not a Prophet sent by Creation. What else can One Expect from someone that Is Man-Made...in Teaching(s)!? And can Not "Comprehend" Creation's TRUE Teachings, which IS a Way Of BEING..In Spiritual Consciousness; Which is it's TRUE SOURCE! If He and others like him See "Holes" in The Talmud Of Jmmanuel...it Is Because..."They"...Are NOT READING The Talmud Of Jmmanuel WITH their "SPIRIT"!!!! A True Spiritual Book..One Reads With The SPIRIT...Howard. THAT IS THE TEACHINGS OF THE SPIRIT!! Howard, YOU MUST READ THE TALMUD OF JMMANUEL WITH YOUR "SPIRIT"...and Not with Your "Materialistic"..Mind! That is Why, Mr. Elbergs and others like him can not Understand and Comphrehend The TRUE TEACHINGS OF THE SPIRIT! Thus, there is NO holes in the Talmud Of Jmmanuel...But...In Their OwnMaterial Minds! He is just Too Low Evolved, in Body and Spirit to "Decode" the teachings in it's True Meanings; whereas most of us here at this board that Acknowledge the True Teachings Of The Spirit and Laws Of Nature and Creation CAN See/Read...Beyond that/this, thus, CAN...."Decode" what is being said. One Surely has to Be..."Advanced" In Spirit...Howard. Truely...Truley! Thus, I can Not Blame You or Mr. Eldbergs for Not Understanding The Talmud and It's Teachings, and Jmmanuel's explaining of it all. I would think, my self, that there is More "Holes" in The Bible...Than any other Religious Book on this Earth Plain! Or even In Our Whole Universe!!! Why do you think many people are Walking AWAY from the churches...these days? Because...They Do Not UNDERSTAND The Bible....Themselves!! But what else can One Expect....from a Book of "LIES"! If the Bible were Not Full of lies...than Man would Comprehend it, and Surely, One does Not have to be High Evolved to understand the Bible. And All those So-called Reverends...Priests....etc... etc...THEY can Not even Translate/Interpret it's True meanings themselves and therefore...Just Conjure-up....Something that makes sense to themselves..from their own Low Evolved Spirit; Thus, there is No Truth to their Interpretations but False...Suggestions. Thus, AGAIN - TRUE LIES OF INTERPRETATIONS, THUS...NOT THE TRUE TEACHINGS OF THE SPIRIT AND THE LAWS OF NATURE AND CREATION -, THUS, Man-Made to it's Fullest "Blunder"(Not a 'Mistake' which is Too Good of a word). Thus Not ascending from the True UR-Source.."CREATION"...which is Not Man-Made...but True Creational LAW; But from their Own Low Evolved "Schizophrenic" Thoughts from an "Undeveloped" Mind and Spirit. Thus, Who has "HOLES" Now Howard? Truely, The So-Called "Hole-y" Book...called The Bible! I Think it has More "Holes"...than any Cheese-type on our Beautiful planet! Howard, it is Always Fine to have such people as you here at this discussion-board; Please do not take my words as Insults or others, I and others here are just "Projecting" Our Life Experiences; thus, have had Much Life-experiences..to Know....What WE are Talking about. I know, You are still Too Young to Comprehend Our Level Of Consciousness/Spirit. We will Always try to Explain to you as much as we can, but will still keep in mind...Your Limited..Evolution Level. Thus, Howard....Take your Time....and do your Research and Study...Step By Step...;Truely....You Will get There....One Day. As We Too, Once had started in the Same way...but with More "Open Mind". Thus, I am Not Negative...Howard. I am Just Telling "The Truth"! True Wisdom and Knowledge be with you...One Day...Howard. PS: Truely...Jim Deardorffs Work Is Much and Much More..Spiritual in Interpretations...than Any Ĺke Eldbergs(and other like him) can every be! "Thank You Personally Jim...For Delivering Us Your Great Knowledge and Work!" Edward. Norm Member Post Number: 617 Registered: 02-2000 Posted on Saturday, September 20, 2003 - 04:02 pm:        Joseph_emmanuel "Then he started speaking about the return of Jesus, and how he will break the cross and kill the swine, and judge those who don’t believe in Allah and follow his laws." I just listened to the whole Audio Koran and its full of contradictions. Love other religions one minute destroy them the next. It reminded me of Christianity. Chiuwang Member Post Number: 158 Registered: 06-2002 Posted on Saturday, September 20, 2003 - 08:00 pm:        Hi As usual, my personal opinion to share on this forum. I am not religious, but I found Mr. Meier's teaching and information in Bible are somewhat 'connected'. If we treat Creation, which is a conscious spirit, as Holy Spirit, and the landing alien as 'God', the king of wisdom at that time point, it does make a little sense, right? And about Trinity, we can always argue that the landing alien, and Creation/Holy Spirit and everyone of us are connected as one big conscious spirit, including Immanual. Bible also talked about John the Baptist is Elija(possible wrong spelling) Creation or Holy Spirit, it is just a name, and both are in spirit form, who knows, they might mean the same thing when 'GOD', the landing aliens, preached their teaching to local earth humans. Peace. Hampton Chiu Howard Member Post Number: 70 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 11:45 am:        HI Edward, to read the teachings with your spirit sounds like somekind of a New Age Channeling stuff. Sounds like to blindly follow and not be critical at all to me. You have to read with critical eyes you see Edward, eventhough it appeals to you, and it sounds right, it doesnt have to be right. You must also remember that priest have a long time study of the spiritual, eventhough you people wont admit it at all. I once visited our local priest, actually the father of a close friend of mine whom I play in a rock-band with, and he sounded to have alot of insights in these matters. A true socialist and humbeling for truth. He just share different opinions than you do. Meditation can be done in churches to you must remember, actually its exellent for meditation. And I personally feel I understand alot of the Talmuds spiritual teachings, eventhough its not of such big importance of mine. Yes, you do have to study the bible to find its true meanings, but sometimes these things just come by them selves, if you are a christian. You understand them because you are "saved" "buried with christ" etc. And who are actually schizophrenic? This is rather funny actually. Believing others can read their minds, hearing voices in your head, having visions, etc. hehe. A spiritual schizophrenia isnt it? And by the way, just because I dont have the same opinions as you and have other spiritual experiences than you, that doesnt make me "lower evolved" than you. I actually take that as an insult. Howard, Where do want "searching for Truth" inserted into your post? - Moderator Howard Member Post Number: 74 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 11:10 am:        Here is something I found about the prophecies about Jesus in the Old Testament. Its quite convincing isnt it? It isnt just about " they shall call his name Immanuel". "Genuine divine Bible prophecy Prophecy is foretelling an event in such detail before it happens so as to necessarily require divine guidance. The Bible is a book containing hundreds of detailed prophecies. There are, for example, well over 60 distinct predictions in regard to our divine Saviour Jesus Christ. Here is a sample of just 10 prophecies that foretold the crucifixion of Christ. Not only were the predictions made 1000 years before Christ came from heaven to earth, but they were made over 500 years before crucifixion was first used anywhere in the world as a form of capital punishment! Crucifixion didn't exist when the prophecies were made. A scientist picked out 48 such prophecies and determined that the probability of one man randomly fulfilling them all is 1 in 10 to the exponent of 157. That is one followed by 157 zeros! Your chances of winning a typical lottery jackpot is about 1 in 108. (100,000,000) Yet, Jesus fulfilled all the prophecies! Concerning his birth Prophesied Fulfilled 1. Born of the seed of woman Gen 3:15 Gal 4:4 2. Born of a virgin Isa 7:14 Mt 1:18-25 3. Seed of Abraham Gen 22:18 Mt 1:1 4. Seed of Isaac Gen 21:12 Lk 3:23+34 5. Seed of Jacob Num 24:17 Lk 3:34 6. Seed of David Jer 23:5 Lk 3:31 7. Tribe of Judah Gen 49:10 Rev 5:5 8. Family line of Jesse Isa 11:1 Lk 3:32 9. Born in Bethlehem Mic 5:2 Mt 2:1-6 10. Herod kills the children Jer 31:15 Mt 2:16-18 Concerning His nature Prophesied Fulfilled 11. He pre-existed creation Mic 5:2 1 Pet 1:20 12. He shall be called Lord Ps 110:1 Ax 2:36 13. Called Immanuel (God with us) Isa 7:14 Mt 1:22-23 14. Prophet Deut 18:18-19 Ax 3:18-25 15. Priest Ps 110:4 Heb 5:5-6 16. Judge Isa 33:22 Jn 5:22-23 17. King Ps 2:6 Jn 18:33-37 18. Anointed by the Spirit Isa 11:2 Mt 3:16-17 19. His zeal for God Ps 69:9 Jn 2:15-17 Concerning His ministry Prophesied Fulfilled 20. Preceded by a messenger Isa 40:3 Mt 3:1-3 21. To begin in Galilee Isa 9:1-2 Mt 4:12-17 22. Ministry of Miracles Isa 35:5-6 Mt 9:35;11:4 23. Teacher of parables Ps 78:1-4 Mt 13:34-35 24. He was to enter the temple Mal 3:1 Mt 21:10-12 25. Enter Jerusalem on donkey Zech 9:9 Mt 21:1-7 26. Stone of stumbling to Jews Isa 28:16; Ps 118:22 1 Pet 2:6-8 27. Light to Gentiles Isa 49:6 Ax 13:46-48 The day Jesus was crucified Prophesied Fulfilled 28. Betrayed by a friend Ps 41:9 Jn 13:18-27 29. Sold for 30 pieces of silver Zech 11:12 Mt 26:14-15 30. 30 pieces thrown in Temple Zech 11:13 Mt 27:3-5 31. 30 pieces buys potters field Zech 11:13 Mt 27:6-10 32. Forsaken by His disciples Zech 13:7 Mk 14:27+50 33. Accused by false witnesses Ps 35:11+20-21 Mt 26:59-61 34. Silent before accusers Isa 53:7 Mt 27:12-14 35. Wounded and bruised Isa 53:4-6 1 Pet 2:21-25 36. Beaten and spit upon Isa 50:6 Mt 26:67-68 37. Mocked Ps 22:6-8 Mt 27:27-31 38. Fell under the cross Ps 109:24-25 Jn 19:17; Lk23:26 39. Hands and feet pierced Ps 22:16 Jn 20:24-28 40. Crucified with thieves Isa 53:12 Mt 27:38 41. Prayed for enemies Isa 53:12 Lk 23:34 42. Rejected by His own people Isa 53:3 Jn 19:14-15 43. Hated without cause Ps 69:4 Jn 15:25 44. Friends stood aloof Ps 38:11 Lk22:54;23:49 45. People wag their heads Ps 22:7;109:25 Mt 27:39 46. People stared at Him Ps 22:17 Lk 23:35 47. Cloths divided and gambled for Ps 22:18 Jn 19:23-24 48. Became very thirsty Ps 22:15 Jn 19:28 49. Gall and vinegar offered Him Ps 69:21 Mt 27:34 50. His forsaken cry Ps 22:1 Mt 27:46 51. Committed Himself to God Ps 31:5 Lk 23:46 52. Bones not broken Ps 34:20 Jn 19:32-36 53. Heart broken Ps 69:20;22:14 Jn 19:34 54. His side pierced Zech 12:10 Jn 19:34+37 55. Darkness over the land Amos 8:9 Lk 23:44-45 56. Buried in rich man's tomb Isa 53:9 Mt 27:57-60 His Resurrection & Ascension Prophesied Fulfilled 57. Raised from the dead Ps 16:8-11 Ax 2:24-31 58. Begotten as Son of God Ps 2:7 Ax 13:32-35 59. Ascended to God Ps 68:18 Eph 2:8-10 60. Seated beside God Ps 110:1 Heb 1:3+13" Website; http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/7843/prophecy.html Howard, Please limit your biblical references, for those that do not have bibles, this makes no sense. Thank you-Moderator Howard Member Post Number: 77 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 07:14 pm:        Moderator, you can find the bible on the net, the english versions in different translations lays on the website www.bible.com. Howard Member Post Number: 82 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - 04:56 pm:        Something I just pondered about, people like me could actually be a danger to the Billy Meier case. Like in the old times (if its true then) when Immanuel walked the earth preaching for the people. By that I mean we are falsifying and misinterpretating the material. If people like me are to present this case with our somewhat christian view on it, which is totally unacceptable by the way, the plejarens almost seems to despise and hate christianity, the "christian cult"as they like to call it. Because I have a different view on the spiritual teachings I will not present them to any other being on this earth. But I will present the Prophecies, which that I am certain are real and true, and give people a little overview on the facts of the case. Its just what you represent thats the case here. For me to present strongly heretical views would be a problem. So that affects my realationship to the Meier-case. Have some of you ever tried to convince anyone else about the Meier-case? Its quite hard! I just know one thing that might help to get people interested, and thats showing them the scientific information and predictions handed over by the extra-terrestrials, the article written by Michael Horn. That catches peoples interest. Michael Member Post Number: 407 Registered: 10-2000 Posted on Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - 09:59 pm:        Hi Everyone, It looks like our new lecture/CD will be available in 6 - 8 weeks and should help to explain some of the material for people to consider. Michael Horn Howard Member Post Number: 86 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Thursday, October 02, 2003 - 11:39 am:        (moderator; this is a one time only thiskind of post) When I think of all you nice people here on this board, it strikes me how sad it is that all of you are going to perish totally into the immense big creation. Not to be to religious here, but wouldnt it be a good opportunity to try out some other choices? Well, the Talmud aint the best scripture to put ones trust into, and reincarnation does NOT mean that YOU are going to reincarnate. It means a completely new personality is created, your loved ones goes away, you will never ever see them again, it means exactly nothing else than pointless existence. Well, there are some good things here in life to, but wouldnt it be good to take that with one into the next life? Learning is a difficult process, the ignorant does not only have to be the Religious people. The ignorant is those who doesnt give things a shot, and try out different things, just as I did. Me, a total anarchist, with nothing else than pure materialistic views on the world, gets a taste of the possible unimaginable afterlife. Why throw that chance away? Give it a go, Howard. Norm Member Post Number: 622 Registered: 02-2000 Posted on Thursday, October 02, 2003 - 07:04 pm:        I must say I'm getting sick of these posts! Howard, Stop playing your games with us here, you are not going to convert us to your insane Religion! GO AWAY! Howard Member Post Number: 90 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Friday, October 03, 2003 - 05:46 am:        Go away? That should be unreasonable. I have alot to learn here. I just wanted to make an appeal to all reasonable people here on this board. To not consider heaven as something real with all the backing up historically, is just silly. There is something in it! Wouldnt you consider it if you had had the experience of it? Think of what an gift it is! But im not as sure as you, if its real I must say, Im always open to new answers on every question, and I must say becoming like Gods is somewhat tempting. My problem with this material on this case, is that Ive had some experiences of godly forces, and strongly evil forces, during experiments and revelations thats just come my way without doing any special things of importance. And that just dont fit in in this case. Seems like Billy doesnt know about this things. And ofcourse I want to share my experiences to you for you to read and consider, so you can make an honest approach to the case. Playing games? How can you say that? Are you a mature human being? I quit playing games in most cases when i was in my youth. The intent of this section of the forum is for the discussion of religious ideas and viewpoints. Please stick to the topic, if this dialogue continues, then your posts will either be removed or reposted in the "The Path Towards Mutual Understanding" section".-Moderator Markc Member Post Number: 79 Registered: 06-2000 Posted on Friday, October 03, 2003 - 03:08 pm:        I thought I would repost part of Howard's message for everyone to enjoy just once more , that it , until the next time that he decides to post such a message . "Me, a total anarchist,..." That says it all . Let's give a big round of applause to our very own anarchist , who just happens to be anarchistic againt us . nice . Markc Member Post Number: 80 Registered: 06-2000 Posted on Friday, October 03, 2003 - 03:26 pm:        I'll add this : These redundant postings by Howard I think are Very Much Unfair to the people who frequent this forum. It has been Established what christianity is . Do we have to keep getting "spammed" by this kind of admitted anarchism ? What kind of ***** would post such a thing , to suggest to try christianity ? It's been around for over 2000 years , Clueless . Most of us have had lots of exposure to the famous blood sacrifice religion .The death worship cult .The cult that gives thanks for murder . The Constitution of the United States of America is an official and legal document that was signed by all present as to it's verity and relevance , at the time .The new testamant was never signed by anyone named 'jesus' or Jmmanuel .Therefore , the new testament is not legally official or legally representative of the ideas and the opinions of the person that it was attributed to . It has only gained any relevance at all through "faith" which in this context , equals " gullibility". This entire forum has become a personal "Blackboard Jungle" , where the student claims to want to learn ands fights it all the way . Jmmmanuel as well as Billy have identified this type of personality ,instructed to quit wasting time on them , and it abuses the precepts of fairness to entertain it any longer . I'm with you Norm , I'm quite sick of it by now . Mark Campbell Der_beobachter Member Post Number: 14 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Friday, October 03, 2003 - 04:48 pm:        Hi there Howard, :-(( Howard I have been reading thousands and thousands and thousands of your postings here.. with the same old and repetitive over and over and over again the same old discourse or hmmm... same...Harangue....you really took over every corner of this place..you took...you post in every single section existent on this Figu Forum every single one with the same old pityfull discourse talking alone to your own buttons and I see you are so lost like someone is completely lost in a huge, quite immense and infinite labyrinth with no one there to show you the way out. You have a quite gigantic deal of information, and wrong ones... all loose, adrift inside your mind...you barely can reason/think by yourself so great, gigantic is the confusion of inutile theories and wrongful teachings, empty and irreal discourses floating inside your mind and 101% of them created by 'churchmen' as always that you have in your mind that you do not know how to separate schaff from Good and Nutritive grain because you yourself are mixing Truth with Untruth and Half Truths a real unsolveable misture of Beach Sand with Wheat flour you do not know which is which...just like the same that is happening to whole Humankind from North to South and from East to West so great is the confusion caused by false teachings, all lies that people who intentionally created these lies in order to make great confusion in the minds of human beings. Sadly you are taking Wrong for Right and Right for Wrong and Good for Bad and Bad for Good... Howard many of us here are Old Travellers on this Path to Knowledge and Wisdom. I mean OUR Spirit-Forms and this Howard you cannot understand you are unprepared to understand it I must say here I am sorry... WE are VERY OLD SPIRIT-FORMS who found its way back home...to Real Truth and Knowledge that many of US here found very deep inside our SOULS and I am so sorry Howard that this kind of thing this so immensely SUBTLE and quite SIMPLE you cannot realize it...it is a so Simple thing like the simple act to pick a Beautiful Flower on your garden and feel its sweet aroma my friend and this FEELING we..no one here...the more any one of us here could try to explain this to you to try to clear your mind to you Howard no one of US here is able to teach you... to show you what is this Feeling, this certainty no one over the surface of this whole Planet Earth can demove, can change, can deny or make us us turn back from this Path be it by means of your long and empty, sad and pious and useless christian discourses, sermons, admonishments. No one on this Earth can turn us back to darkness my Friend. I feel free to state to you that Billy never and did not asked us to 'believe' (I do not like to use this 'believe' word because Billy Meier and The Mission is not someone or something to 'believe' in a religious sense and he is just a very normal person like any human being) in him or in The Mission. We reached this certainty WITHIN ourselves. No heavenly angels, gods, nothing like that involved, these things are fantasies Howard fairy tales and you believe in fairy tales...your mind is just like a scenery in Disneyland..all productions and attractions being run at the same time..every single one of them all inside your mind at the same time...Disneyland mind....a fantasy..a nigthmare that you seem to be unable to wake up from it. You dear Howard looks like a sheep without a shepard..no one there to guide you..you are alone. Many of my FIGU friends here tried to give good and useful hints on how you can THINK for yourself and you did not care or listened to them... you are not able to think by yourslef...your mind is strongly anesthetized it is under the effect of this "Religious Opium" give a break to yourself for a whole year.. go to the forests, go to the mountains or to the beaches and breath some fresh air, watch the scenery and try to ERASE to DELETE... understand??... try to do the same thing as you would to a Computer Hard Disk.. FORMAT it completely... clean it up...forget everything you have learnt, read, heard say. Try to put you mind completely blank.. Try to forget the postings for a while...After this cleansing..emptying of your mind... then maybe...you can start all over again anew. This is the VERY LAST time I write to you Howard the LAST one posting to you and as soon as I see your name written on the header 'POSTED BY HOWARD' I will immediately delete it from my computer because my heart aches so much in sincere and real pain and sadness so much.. so great is the pity and the sorrow to see this whole Humankind so lost, marooned on a dark Sea of Sorrows and Lies and Deceiveing and Blindness like yourself are now and I know that theres is absolutely nothing nothing, nix, zero I can do to help it. Planet Earth..is Planet Howard you in my sincere opinion only represents here the TRUE AND REAL situation this whole Planet was transformed into by those behind this Evil Plan of deceiving Humankind... I am sorry Howard but I am a very very sincere person..no harm..no harm at all intended to you do NOT feel hurt or humiliated please this is not and never was my intention here I really care really really care - in sincerity and truthfulness - from the deepest of my heart about you, you believe it or not.....you can call me names, whatever I do not care I am being sincere to you here no harm at all intended to you not a single droplet of harm intended... Take care and take a little rest give a break to your mind for a while then after it you can come back as you wish but if you still continue with your endless harangue you will still continue to talk - ALONE - with your own buttons...... The Secret is Inner Perception Howard the bible and existent religions, no matter which one, does not and will never never teach you how to do this....unfortunatelly. Sorry Sincerity above all, Peace in Knowing :-(( Der Beobachter Edelweiß Markc Member Post Number: 81 Registered: 06-2000 Posted on Saturday, October 04, 2003 - 01:10 am:        Thank you Jose for your truly insightful letter . If there was anything that could be done to help this young man , it has already been done .It should be clear that his strategy is clear : to infiltrate , disguise intent , cause distraction , establish anarchy . His advertising campaign for anarchy itself disguised as a love for 'christ' is clearly a thinly disguised ruse . Vaccilation is the dominant trait here, which is significantly noticeable in one who applies his energies to disturb a gathering of those who wish to communicate intelligently , especially concerning the well established earth religions .It's always the same ; appear interested and then sow the seeds of dissent , citing unfairness in being edited out . By now the moderators have allowed this pointless and constant monolouge to continue , and I think at least they have showed a generous fairness to the oppsing view . However , it should be clear that the subject never really gets addressed , except to cover the well worn path with no creativity or insight whatsoever ,with no fine and sensible points of the so called religion offered at all . If anything , it shows a desperation on the part of this particular person , who is not even religious himself , obviously . Admittedly , his intent is to disrupt . At this point it would be refreshing to hear from someone who truly knows his faith , and enter into a mutually respectful conversation . It's a delicate subject , but this person knows no such dedication , only an arrogant inclination to banter . I appreciate the attentive manner in which you dealt with this Jose . Mark Edward Member Post Number: 325 Registered: 05-2002 Posted on Saturday, October 04, 2003 - 03:40 am:        Hi TruthSeeker...HOWARD! This being my last posting for this week... HOWARD, from my own point of view...you are getting all the answers to your questions given by whom ever Knows the answer...here. Howard....Please Be CONTENT with what we offer you! We here at this FIGU-board have been very very patient with you, and even Good-Hearted also. But now...as you can see/notice...We are getting "Annoied" with your Way Of Being! It strikes me...that you are even More Naive...than I thought you were. We Give you your answers...but you seem Not to COMPHREHEND it's Contents...Nor do you "Analyse" the Material(s). Thus, this leaves me to Acknowledge...that you are just Not "Ripe" for The Teachings Of The Spirit..and The Laws Of Nature and Creation. I can give just one more Advice...and that is to Study the Materials "DEEPLY"....but Now....Not with your Material-Mind....BUT....WITH YOUR SPIRIT...as I have mentioned before. Thus, If you do not Know...how to Exercise this...I can only say...: READ THE MATERIALS....OVER AND OVER AND OVER....Till it becomes an "Integrated" Source of Nature..within your Spirit. I Know...you will Not understand what I am saying, but...Just "Hang On In There"...and Study with Patience! When you have Reached this "State Of Being"....You WILL...Reconize it!! This is the Last Advice I can offer you....Poor Spirit with an UnKnowing Knowledge...the Size of a Pea! Fill Up you Pea-Spirit...and only You...can Ripen it...to a Truely Ripen Pea...which can be Consumed...to/for it's Destiny of Proper Use...in The Creational Manifestation. If you want your "Pea-Spirit" to Grow and Expand to the size of a Watermellon...you will have to work Hard Howard! This Too...is what the Teaching Of The Spirit is All About! Thus, Study...Study....and Study...Howard. FIGU is not called a STUDY-GROEP for Nothing! We and All that come here...ARE HERE TO "STUDY"....and Gain Knowledge....and Exchange Thoughts, Findings..etc...which can even be number to divers in Subjects...that concerns...and is, part of our daily Life and Existence. Thus Howard,...."STUDY"!!! This I do Not like to say Howard....but..you are "Harassing" Us More....than Trying to Gain Knowledge! Thus, Please do NOT "HARASS" Us...Anymore! Thus, again....STUDY..the Material(s)...and than Come Back Over A MONTH!? Than...if you have something "Reasonable" to say or ask...do a Posting. We here at FIGU DO NOT GO HARASSING...people at their Website or their Discussion-board(s)...Thus,...We would Appreciate It that this may not be executed to/towards us. Thus....I Agree with many here of this discussion-board..... "The Cup....Is Full!" Much Succes....with Your Search To Truth..... SEE YOU IN A MONTH!!??? Edward. Der_beobachter Member Post Number: 15 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Saturday, October 04, 2003 - 01:14 pm:        Hello dears Friends, MarkC, Edward and all REAL and true FIGU TruthSeekers and whomever it may concern "OUT" there and those evil ones "in-the-know" about The Mission and its True Purpouse... Some personal,I said personal PERCEPTIONS of mine here..you cand disregard everything as you wish... But Truth is Truth but humankind cannot see it or understand it... I am an Anarchist then... If ANARCHISM is the Real and Truthfull Inner Desire to see, to wish to see one day this whole Blue and Green Planet Earth get RID once and for all for EVER AND EVER AND EVER of all this disgrace, Wars, bloodsheding, lust for blood, lies, religious lies, religious manipulation of Humankind, of Human Beings...IF ANARCHISM is to desire very deep..as I always DO ..right here in my heart... to desire and visualize a very Gigantic Rock...an Very Huge..Immense and billions tons Heavy Rock coming from the Depths of the Cosmos and to HIT real HARD with a Mighty and POWERFULL CRASH without missing its PRE DETERMINED target...right on the heads of all those fools....every single one of these liars, politics, popes, preachers, and all those who use and have being using US Human Beings CREATION OF CREATION who itself is Righteousness, Harmony, Peace, Wisdom, Knowledge and and REAL TRUE LOVE then I am Anarchist... This is true CREATIONAL anarchism because CREATION... who SEES everything who ITSELF RULES everything and WHO itself is inside every single one of us...inside...and is inseparable part of every single drop of water, is in every rock, every single leaf, Creation will NOT forget and will have no mercy because of the IRRATIONALITY and the Blindness those people...those ones behind this Display who have EYES to peep here...as I am sure of it....and read many....if not ALL that is people ever have written here to FOLLOW UP things..to check if their EVIL PLAN is still running but IT IS NOT. So those ones...the Real culprits for this Horrible situation this whole Planet Earth is in - this Hellish and Endless Status Quo - will not be spared because of their STUPITY, FOOLISHNESS AND complete ignorance on how CREATION and those out There....extraterrestrial Human Beings who came from the Depths of the Universes...and REALLY created this Humankind a long Time. These Human Beings the fools calls ETs they also do not FORGET and are FULLY aware of every single deceiving plan ot continue with this Horrendous and NOT only 2000 years but this Evil Plan whose existence is as old as the Ancient Dinossaurs. The 'black sorcery' will DEFINITIVELLY turn AGAINST the 'sorceres'. What these STUPID persons have been doing for many millenia to Themsevels was simple to LOCK themselves inside a Dark Room of Ignorance where they then set fire on themselves commiting suicide. Many of you may not understand what I am trying to say here but THERE people out there.. those who Brain Washed people like this person who signs as Howard and probably - now as a second thought - may in reality be a simple Puppet controlled by the real 'evil' ones out there and who ARE fully aware of The Mission and WHO in Reality is Edward Albert Meier - who himself came as The Herald and Guardian of Truth and Knowledge as it is implied in his own name...over this Planet for Seven Times and for SEVEN TIMES they out there the same one as always....tried to do the same thing they did to Jmmanuel in the past. If there is ANARCHISM so the Anarschism is ALREADY cast into their Evil Plan that is already starting to Crash and will Ruin and the sound of its fall will be so Great WHOLE UNIVERSE will hear the sound in JOY and Happiness.!!! I want to see those ones out there EXPLAIN to humankind who is who and is the Difference between Truth and the Lie they invented by falsifying REAL and UNIVERSAL , LOGIC WORDS of WISDOM who were taught by the SAME SPIRIT-FORM here RIGHT NOW living on Earth as a very very simple and normal Human Being. If there is CONFUSION and Anarchims then THE TRUTH has already made a Great CONFUSION in the minds of those earlty Clowns without a Mask and Debiloids, complete Morons who calls themselves scientists, and Phds, that FOR ME I see them all, every single one of them as complete irrationals 'religous' experts and 'pseudo-scholars' out there who IF COMPARED with the Extraterrestrial Human Beings - thousands of years ahead in technology and also Highly Advanced In TRUE SPIRTUAL KNOWLEDGE those earthy 'scholars' - in reality simple puppets controled by those in the Upper Hand and who is now.. at this very moment...seening their Mighty Kingdom of Lies coming into complete Destruction and try to save..try to continue their Dirty Job by means of the use of persons like this Howard person a complete Brain Washed person as the same as it is the Whole Planet for thousands of years. How long do you think it will take to humankind to wake-up from this nightmare do you think WE can do something about it? NO is the response....nothing any one of us can do..Only CREATION itself can WISELY do because to change the mind of this whole irrational Planet is BEYOND our capacities... So here is my sincere Prayer to Creation in Truth and Love this is the KIND of thing I pray EVERY NIGHT with sorrow in my heart but THIS thing is URGENTLY necessary.. Only a fool... only a blind person CANNOT understand this Situation this Planet is has no WAY BACK. we cannot do nothing about it. OH Come o Great ROCK of SEVEN AGES!!! And do your JOB as you did in the Past..in very Ancient Times... Fall onto THE OCEAN and make RISE a GIGANTIC AND SALTY WAVE THOUSADS MILES HIGH and WASH WASH AWAY AND PURIFY WITH SALTY AND PURE WATER our PLANET EARTH of this disgusting DIRTY one calls RELIGION and all the LIARS the real black sorcerers, liars, enslavers of Humankind, Warmongers, Ignorants, Deceivers, Assassins, Murders of Truth and Harmony!!! WIPE OUT of Great Rock with your WISE POWER and HEAVYNESS ALL THOSE who defy and ARE defying Powers BEYOND their childish compreension SEVEN IS THE NUMBER OF CREATION....SEVEN IS THE NUMBER of the Prophet and SEVEN AGES I am sure is coming to AN END Seven IS THE NUMBER...NOT EIGHT OR NINE or TEN BUT SEVEN IS THE NUMBER AND SEVEN PROPHETS HUMANKIND HAVE TRULY REACHED!!! So Come Oh Great and Powerfull Rock of SEVEN AGES and FREE all those who wish to see only Peace and Quiet, and Free only those who Understand TRUTH, and Free only those who wish to SEE REAL HUMAN BROTHERHOOD, come oh HEAVY billion TONS rock...form the Depths of the Cosmos and FULLFIL what is wisely written on Talmud of Jmmanuel: TJ 25:42. "For as lightning flashes and illuminates from start to finish, so will be my coming in the future, when I will bring the teachings anew and announce the legions of the celestial sons. At that time I will have a renewed life and will again be accused of deception and blasphemy across the entire world, until the teachings of truth will bring about insight and change in the people. TJ 25:43. "People of all times, BEWARE: where the carcass is, there the vultures gather, so watch out for them. TJ 25:44. "Soon after the misery of that faraway time, sun and moon will lose their luster, comets will fall from the sky and the powers of the heavens will begin to sway. TJ 25:45. "The makeup of the Earth's sky and air will be disturbed, and the land will burn because of the black oil of the Earth, ignited by people's craving for power. The sky will darken because of smoke and fire, which will rage for a thousand days, and everything above the burning land and far beyond will be covered with black soot. Consequently the weather will break down, and severe cold and much death will come over the people, plants and animals, and over the Earth, as a result of the senselessly unleashed forces of the people who live in lust for power, evil passions and vices. TJ 25:46. "And then SIGNS WILL APPEAR IN THE SKY, and all Earth humans WILL WAIL and come to SEE the SIGNS in the clouds of the sky that BEAR witness to great power and SEVERE JUDGEMENT AGAINST IRRATIONALTY. TJ 22:47. "If you disregard and trample on all the commandments of god, who is the ruler over this and the two other human lineages in the North and the East, you shall be disregarded and trampled upon for all time. TJ 22:48. "The burden of the Israelite people will be LIKE A HEAVY STONE OF THE SEVEN GREAT AGES. WHOSOEVER falls upon this STONE will be smashed to pieces, and whosoever it FALLS UPON will be CRUSHED: TJ 25:47. "So god (JSHWSH) is lord over the three human lineages, yet the laws and directives of Creation are eternally valid. Through these laws and directives, which represent Creation, humankind in its irrationality will bring cruel judgment upon itself. TJ 1:94. "God, (JSHWSH) the lord, is generous in his love, but also TERRIBLE in his WRATH WHEN HIS LAWS ARE DISOBEYED. And there are the puppets..the deceived and blind ones out there waiting to be rescued by ARUSEAK who is actually DEAD MEAT they..the foolish and deceived one wait to be raptured by an inexistent Jesus Christ and other inexistent 'gods, gods as fake as a HOLOGRAPHY and INEXISTENT illusion created by the Liars.... So wait for him...wait infinitely for these liars and deceivers and characters created, invented by the Enslavers of Humankind that you out there are waiting for.... QUETZAL: "You know very well that we ARE NOT PERMITTED to STOP this EVENT. The COSMIC FORCES THEMSELVES PROGRAMMED THIS EVENT IN ADVANCE., and it can ONLY BE STOPPED or warded OFF BY EARTH PEOPLE themselves. In their MATERIALIST AND MISGUIDED EGO-CENTERED ISOLATION and DISCRIMINATIONS and in THEIR DELLUSIONS OF GRANDEUR, they DISREGARD ALL WARNINGS AND PROPHECIES, SO THIS EVENT WILL INEVITABLY COME TO PASS AS A REBUKE AND RETRIBUTION if you wish to see it AS SUCH. AND BECAUSE THIS ADMONITION AND RETRIBUTION MUST OCCUR, WE ARE NOT PERMITTED TO UNDERTAKE ANY ACTIONS TO WARD OFF THIS EVENT. EARTH PEOPLE SHOULD LISTEN TO YOUR WORDS AND WARNINGS, but THAT IS PRECISELY what THEY DO NOT DO....... From Dialogue between TRUE AND REAL JSHWSH QUETZAL to Billy Meier...on page 316 of the book AND YET THEY FLY... "IT IS A LAW THAT IS ALSO ANCHORED IN NATURE." Edward Albert Meier - page 324 of the Book AND YET THEY FLY... "WHATEVER DEGENARATES IN NEGATIVE FORM WILL BE DESTROYED BECAUSE, IN THAT WAY, IT CAN NO LONGER ENDAGER GOOD LIFE" - Edward Albert Meier - page 324 of the Book AND YET THEY FLY... Prophecies are CHANGEABLE but I see humankind is not able and will not be able to change them.....the ignorance and irrationality of those in the Power..the enslavers of Planet will themselves make the Prophecy be FULLFILED. they DESERVE IT!!! QQ47=KILL KILL FOR SEVEN!!! SO BE IT!!! MAKHTUB!!! Note: Makhtub=Arabian word for IT WAS WRITEN..DESTINY!!! P-S-Search over the web for this number QQ47 Asteroid and you learn more about it... Der Beobachter Edelweiß Howard Member Post Number: 91 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - 12:22 pm:        As I have already said to the Moderator, I said that was the last post of that kind, I just wanted you people to see that you just MIGHT be blind to some insights that is impossible to learn by your own spirits! It was only meant as a friendly post. When I read Markc's posts I can do nothing else that just laugh, its so tragic;It should be clear that his strategy is clear : to infiltrate , disguise intent , cause distraction , establish anarchy. LOL! This have never been my intent, I am not trying to infiltrate any groups on this forum, that sounds stupid to me. By the way, I am so peacefull as I possibly can be, and I cannot see how you people have experienced christians. As evil figurs, corrupting mankind, childabusers etc etc. This is just plain conspiracytheories. I think I have had a lot of reasonable posts in the last times, and I think the votes have been good to, if one are to trust those. Spirit evolved like a pea, haha, what a statement, you speak of overrating onesself, delusion and megalomania if you ask me. And how can Billy dare to call himself the prophets in the bible, when the bible phrophecies contradicts it in every way? The prophets prophecies Jesus, if you care to look. I hope you dare to compare the Talmud against the Bible. So, my main point here is not to destroy the discussion in any way, I would like to partake in it, if I am allowed by a somekind of authorative people, who is blind to other options than Billys. Cant you see that most people here on earth are religious? That should tell you something shouldnt it. I am here to learn, nothing more, maybe to share something also, some ideas, but you people dont seem to tolerate such ideas. I am sorry for that. Peace, Howard. Pureharmony Member Post Number: 95 Registered: 08-2002 Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - 01:44 pm:        Howard, we just understand and interpret things differently than you do. That is okay though. You said -"And how can Billy dare to call himself the prophets in the bible, when the bible phrophecies contradicts it in every way?" Tell me what you mean by that. I do not believe that the bible prophecies contradicts what Billy says at all. Before i started posting on this FIGU forum, i was really into study of the biblical prophecies. Alot of people here are ex-Christians, and i now understand why. It is difficult for most people to swallow who come from a religious background though, i understand. Though most of the understanding that people here have achieved, has been going and searching for the knowledge personally, and reading and researching ALOT. With that being said, there is only so much we can exchange in words talking to one another. So the best way to find the knowledge you may need to fill the gaps, is to thirst and hunger for the truths, and in that, your spirit will guide you to what you need to read to get there. *pureharmony* Norm Member Post Number: 625 Registered: 02-2000 Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - 07:17 pm:        Howard You just don't get it. We are beyond these foolsh man made religions! If we weren't we would be in church right now, not here! Maybe thats were you should be! Savio Member Post Number: 441 Registered: 07-2000 Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - 08:36 pm:        Howard I have suggested you proving the existence of your God and that he is the creator of the universe before again flooding the forum with your faith which cannot be proved. Keep on presenting something that cannot be proved but only based on beliefs is what we called "unreasonable" and "illogical". Hence, please show your respect to all other forum members and present your proofs before coming back with more Christian faith. Thanks for your kind consideration Savio Markc Member Post Number: 82 Registered: 06-2000 Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - 08:41 pm:        Has anyone seen the guy who runs around the college campuses yelling " I am the alpha and omega"!! ...? he must be an alpha-omegalomaniac . I was wondering about the Indian gods krsna /govinda . Did they ever say they were coming back ? I am a little behind in my knowledge of Hinduism . Also , I seem to remember hearing about a book called "J" that was about Jehova . Through a conversation with a friend ,I learned that this book claimed that there was at least one wife of Mr. J . Has anyone read this book ? Mark Pureharmony Member Post Number: 96 Registered: 08-2002 Posted on Thursday, October 09, 2003 - 05:47 am:        Hi Mark & all, I didn't read that book "J", but according to the Sumerian texts, Jahova/JHVH- Enlil had quite a few children. He sort of "got around" . He also "fashioned" beings, even sometimes while drunken from wine. "The Sumerians" book by Samuel Noah Kramer. Hey check this out- Errors & Contradictions in the bible. Asa's heart "was perfect with the Lord all his days," I Kings 15:14, II Chr. 15:17. However, according to II Chr. 16, Asa sinned by a) forming a league with Ben-Hadad of Syria, b) by throwing Hanani the prophet of the Lord in prison, c) by oppressing the people and d) consulting physicians rather than the Lord about his foot disease. According to I Kings 15:14, "the high places were not removed." However, II Chr. 14:3-5 says, "he took away . . . the high places . . . he took away out of all the cities of Judah the high places." (Later the Chronicler raises a red herring, and tries to soften the contradiction. He says, "but the high places were not taken away out of Israel; nevertheless, the heart of Asa was perfect all his days," II Chr. 15:17. Of course the high places were not taken out of Israel! Asa ruled Judah and not Israel. He did not have power to remove the high places from Israel.) Plus alot more errors to see, go to this link: http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/david_zaitzeff/asa_arch.html I found it quite humourous, actually, there were so extreme contradictions. *pureharmony* Markc Member Post Number: 84 Registered: 06-2000 Posted on Friday, October 10, 2003 - 01:26 am:        Hi Pureharmony ; Thanks for your information .... I guess I did read before, that Jehova was Enlil , but it may have been from you also .If I may ask please , how did you come to that conclusion ? I was under the impression that Enlil and Enki were identical to the brothers that Billy spoke of in Contact 251 , who had different names , however . I read several of Z.Sitchin's books ,and oriented myself with the concepts enough to use it as a reference . I also learned that Jehova was the earthborn son of a JHWH . Perhaps the son of Arus , I don't remember . He had access to technology and some consciousness related power ( I assume), and therefore established himself as a god demanding of worship , fear , and thousands of bicyle riders who wear white shirts and skinny black ties . Mark Edward Member Post Number: 326 Registered: 05-2002 Posted on Friday, October 10, 2003 - 12:14 pm:        Hi Mark... I was just Skimming through "AY..TF"...and it mentions that "Jschwjsch Arus-1 - The Barbarian - " had Three sons - Arussem, Ptaah and Salam. It does not mention that one of them would have the nickname of Jehovah. Arussem murdered his father Arus-1 and resumed his father's tyranny on Earth. After the two other brothers, tired of bloodshed, banded together and forced Arussem and his minions from Earth some 3,351 years ago. From this point on, we refer to this negative and ancient splinter group of the Pleiadians as the "Giza Intelligence." See more "AY...TF" chapter-13. But if you read "49 Questions - With Answers Regarding Life And The Human Conditions - " question 33 - Who was Jehovah? - ; Billy also refers Mr.Jehovah as "dear old God" - The Barbarian - ! Thus One comes to Conclusion that Arus-1 IS Mr.Jehovah as Billy is/may be referring to? By the title "The Barbarian"? And Semjase refers him as "Jehovah the Unjust and Creul." And Billy again, "And to whom today's Christians still pays a hellish tribute." Thus we can conclude that Arus-1 and Jehovah are Not two apart individuals? But One and The Same..Personage. I would not think that Billy would utilize "The Barbarian" two Times..for two apart individuals? As I must say...that I myself Did Think that Arus and Mr.Jehovah were two Different individuals...as what I make up from the materials read. But if we do not come to a result...we can ask this question to Billy. Not? Edward. Markc Member Post Number: 85 Registered: 06-2000 Posted on Friday, October 10, 2003 - 02:38 pm:        Thanks for your gathering of references Edward , excellent . I think your'e right . In any case , it's just interesting , and not crucial to know . It's not too terribly difficult to bring communication back towards a civil direction . I hope we can all continue on an informational exchange from here on out . Thanks . Salome , Mark Pureharmony Member Post Number: 97 Registered: 08-2002 Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 - 04:50 am:        THE 2 "Gods" referred to by Semjase is in the contact notes. Mark, i will get back to you on the Jahova/Enlil & Yahweh/Enki relations. 39th contact wednesday December 3rd, 1975, 1:37 am Meier- "I understand, but as we are on the theme of drawing, I would actually be interested in how the "Good God" looks, indeed, or has looked like." Semjase- "Which one are you thinking of?" Meier- "Of the great IHWH, who still today haunts through the Christian relegion." Semjase- "Of those there are two." Meier- "Two?" Semjase- "Surely." Meier- "I do not understand this." Semjase- "Why are you speaking in untruth?" Meier- "What?" Semjase- "You know the conditions very well." *pureharmony* Pureharmony Member Post Number: 98 Registered: 08-2002 Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 - 05:37 am:        To discover the identities of these gods, we have to look no further than where they were first recorded as being operative. In this regard, ancient Canaanite texts (discovered in Syria in the 1920s) reveal that their respective courts were in the Tigris-Euphrates valley in Mesopotamian Sumer - above the Eden delta of the Persian Gulf. Sumerian written records can be traced back to the 3rd millennium BC and they explain that the gods in question were brothers. In Sumer, the storm-god who eventually became known as Jehovah was called Enlil or Ilu-kur-gal (meaning Lofty One of the Mountain) and his brother, who became Adon the Lord, was called Enki - a very appropriate name because Enki means Archetype. In early times, the prevailing Hebrew word for Lord was Adon, whereas the name of Jehovah (JHVH) was not used at all. It came from the original Hebrew stem YHWH . The Bible also makes it clear that the God of Abraham was actually called El Shaddai, which means Lofty Mountain. Jehovah was, therefore, not a name at all, it was a title denoting his level of knowledge. (Ishwish/JSHWJSH) The early texts refer simply to El Shaddai and to his opposing counterpart Adon. The Canaanites called these gods El Elyon and Baal, meaning precisely the same things: Lofty Mountain and Lord. In modern Bibles, the definitions God and Lord are used and intermixed throughout as if they referred to the same Jehovah character, but originally they did not. One was a vengeful god (a people suppressor), and the other was a social god (a people supporter). *pureharmony* Markc Member Post Number: 87 Registered: 06-2000 Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 - 08:42 am:        Thanks Shannon ; I thought she was referring to Jehova and Kalatan , who ordered the Jmmanuel mission .Does anyone else know ? Mark Jeedi Member Post Number: 7 Registered: 11-2003 Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2003 - 05:30 pm:        Hello Jay, I thought you made a great comment when you compared today’s very earthly version of astrology to the characteristics of religion. I know nothing about astrology, so I’m not going there now; but I would think religion is not just defined as groups and places…Catholics, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, New Agers, a Bible, a Church building, etc.,… but goes deeper to the basic value of everyday thoughts and actions. Here is a quote by Semjase from her first contact with Billy about the meaning of religion: “57. Religion is only a primitive concoction by man to command, suppress and exploit others, to which only spiritually weak life forms succumb.” So Semjase seems to say about religion that it is something that stalls the evolution of the weak minded. What about saying a person is “gifted”? Who gifted them? Did god give some people more? By saying for example, “Tiger Woods is a gifted golfer.” Does this make some people not even try the sport, let alone stop others from putting in the work and having the confidence to beat him? I think it goes deeper than this; for example, I would think that an atheist or a heathen who screams “Oh my god” during sex would be doing a religious thing. This person is giving credit to god (instead of their selves and/or their partner), even if they are not intentionally trying to do this. Best regards, Anthony Jay Member Post Number: 225 Registered: 01-2002 Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2003 - 07:43 pm:        Jeedi, You stated: I think it goes deeper than this; for example, I would think that an atheist or a heathen who screams “Oh my god” during sex would be doing a religious thing. This person is giving credit to god (instead of their selves and/or their partner), even if they are not intentionally trying to do this." When people say this "OH MY GOD", that is just the life conditioning which was given to us since birth and all it is is trying to break out of a bad habit which is what this statemant is "A BAD HABIT". I catch myself saying similar things to this and is not our fault, is more the life brainwashing effect of religious standards of this earth which caused this reaction. I think using the word gifted is the same as saying that the Spirit-form which is in the person or personality is highly developed and is developed to the level which allows the said person to perform something which others can see as "GIFTED". Meaning, THIS PERSON IS HIGHLY DEVELOPED and does something special which other forms of spirit at this time cannot do. Spirit-forms from what I see do not have the same capabilites alike, sometimes I see around me forms of life meaning humans which are 30 yrs older than I and they are probably less capable than I in any given talent. Saalome and BE WELL to ALL Jeedi Member Post Number: 8 Registered: 11-2003 Posted on Friday, December 12, 2003 - 11:13 am:        Hi Jay, Yes, exactly one of my points too, we need to observe ourselves better, notice "bad habits" that create a religious effect, and correct them. Gifted implies that something (talent, ability, etc.,) was free and was not earned. I agree that more developed people look special to lower ones; but this should not imply that they can't catch up. Best regards, Anthony I got the word jeedi from one of the Star Wars movies. The scene in "Return of the Jedi" where Luke Skywalker is dropped into the Rancor beast pit by Jabba the Hutt. Jabba's whole court is laughing at Luke as Jabba, utters the phrase, "...jeedi Jedi, jeedi Jedi..." Fortunatly Luke had well trained himself as a Jedi to survive the Rancor attack. I guess the joke was on Jabba? Michael Member Post Number: 416 Registered: 10-2000 Posted on Friday, December 12, 2003 - 12:27 pm:        Regarding the "Oh my God" during sex comment, years ago I saw the movie "The Last Temptation of Christ" wherein "Jesus" and Mary M. are having sex. The whole theater was spellbound and you could have heard a pin drop. However, the thought that immediately crossed my mind, what I was waiting to hear was Mary M. shout out "JESUS CHRIST!" at the , er, appropriate moment. Now THAT would have really been something! Michael Horn Jay Member Post Number: 226 Registered: 01-2002 Posted on Friday, December 12, 2003 - 06:06 pm:        Jeedi, Religion, what a mess this is in this planet. So far it has not caused us to extinct ourselves yet as the Animal life forms watch in disgust. LOL. Saalome and BE WELL to ALL Jay Member Post Number: 228 Registered: 01-2002 Posted on Saturday, December 13, 2003 - 12:34 am:        Michael, Unfortunately I did not see the movie, however it would have been nice to be there with you so we could laugh at the scene together, LOL. I think this you mentioned is quite humorous, I need to go rent the DVD and see this for myself as well. Saalome and BE WELL to ALL Markc Member Post Number: 107 Registered: 06-2000 Posted on Saturday, December 13, 2003 - 10:48 am:        Michael , you kill me ! However( explanation for the benefit of some others) this does not mean that you are taking my life and that I am dying . "Oh my god" is a rhetorical exclamation made suddenly at an intense moment , and has nothing whatsoever to do with religion , faith , god , devoutness , etc. Of course this is directed at those who may not have had experience with that type of exclamation , and not anyone in particular . Oh my god , I'm late ... I have to get away from this computer . No worship here . Mark Campbell Jeedi Member Post Number: 10 Registered: 11-2003 Posted on Saturday, December 13, 2003 - 05:58 pm:        Hello Mark, It is very interesting that you bring up the word "rhetorical." The World Book Dictionary, 1974 Doubleday & Company: rhet-o-ric , n. 1. the art of using words in speaking or writing so as to persuade or influence others: "The communication of those thoughts to others falls under the consideration of rhetoric." (John Stuart Mill) 2. the language used: "Blifil suffered himself to be overpowered by the forcible rhetoric of the squire." (Henry Fieldings)........ Best regards, Anthony Howard Member Post Number: 113 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Sunday, December 14, 2003 - 09:59 am:        Hi people, A recent study by nevro-teologists showed that people with a strange braindisorder called temporal lobe epilepsy, was extra disponible for religious and spiritual experiences and visions. It appears that the temporal lobe is a key factor in such experiences. I suggest you read this article; http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2865009.stm. Howard Howard Member Post Number: 114 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Sunday, December 14, 2003 - 10:53 am:        Hi, what I failed to mention was another study, which showed that spiritual experiences had to do with chemical reactions in the brain. The less brainreceptors one has, the more open one are for religious and spiritual experiences, and the more one has, the more sceptical you are. The participants had to take standpoint to videly subjects like telepathy, spiritual powers etc. These is actually the same signalsystem that is affected by LSD and other narcotics. Jeedi Member Post Number: 11 Registered: 11-2003 Posted on Monday, December 15, 2003 - 07:57 pm:        Hi Howard, There is a big difference between religious experiences and spiritual ones. Here on earth, people think being spiritual is about an important book (“the” Bible), an important event (example: birth of Christ), an important place (“holy” temple), an important symbol (example: a cross), but this is far from the truth. Spiritual experiences represent human development and progress, such as recognizing and correcting mistakes (Un-truths)to become a more talented individual, and thus more evolved. Religion on the other hand is a WEAPON….one that can stop/overtake a person from thinking for themselves. Here is what Billy has to say about religions in an interview on the Figu site, “…religions and sects, invented and generated to divert humans from the path of the genuine truth, and to make them believe that as humans they are not self-reliant but ever dependent upon higher powers. This condition transpired even in the earliest of times to keep humans enslaved, to prevent them from rebelling, and to subordinate them meekly and humbly into this oppression.” Imagine this: a (superior talented human—highly evolved) space alien crash-lands on a planet with cavemen (lower developed humans). He makes unexpected contact with these forms and is overcome, captured to be eaten at their next meal. To survive, the alien dude uses his advanced abilities (telekinesis to drop rocks from the sky) to eventually convince the cavemen that he is an “all-powerful” god so that he can escape. The spaceman finally gets away and is eventually rescued by his alien buddies; but now a lot of the cavemen drop their lively duties in their survival -- to worship the space alien/experience. They stop hunting for food to build a monument (a pile of rocks in the form of what we would call a beer can) representing the Daft spaceship design used by the fallen space alien dude. Over time many cavemen become starving, so they gather and grunt out songs (attempt similar to spacecraft sound) to the monument in hope the superior power will return. Weak and confused, the population of caveman eventually dies out on the planet. Hey, in this fictitious example would you say this religious experience could be considered as lethal as a weapon of mass destruction? Any thoughts? Best regards, Anthony Jay Member Post Number: 232 Registered: 01-2002 Posted on Monday, December 15, 2003 - 10:30 pm:        Anthony, What you are describing is not a religious experience but simply the caveman's making of a cult religion based on the landed Alien beings who showed and manipulated their ideas to the cavemen. Of course taking into consideration that the Alien "Dued" took advantage of their lower developed spirit forms to manipulate and keep them "BELIEVING" in what they have witnessed. It will continue for as long as the Aliens or a higher developed Alien may come down again and tell them otherwise in similar fashion the PLEJARANS are telling us now through the information passed on to Billy Meier. Saalome and BE WELL to ALL Jeedi Member Post Number: 13 Registered: 11-2003 Posted on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - 06:31 pm:        Hi Jay, Wouldn't "...the caveman's making of a cult religion..." be a religious experience for them? You bring up excellent point about the need for higher race to bring truth to lower forms to help them correct the religious effect brought about by the daft alien dude. But what about "self defense?" I had hoped to show that the space alien in my story had no other choice to survive. What I'm trying to figure out is whether religion is too powerful to use even tactfully for defense? Is religion a WMD? Any thoughts? Cheers, Anthony Hello Scott: here is my correct post for 12/16/03. I created religion with the first post. My mistake, many thanks!!! Jay Member Post Number: 234 Registered: 01-2002 Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 - 10:27 am:        Jeedi, RELIGION is what has become of the worship of these "Celestial visitors", is not something which was brought to us it is something which lower level spiritual forms have manisfested from Celestial Spirituallity which has gone extremely out of control. Take into consideration it has been ages of manipulation of DNA with original Human forms here on earth which has caused the worship and control of all human species on this planet. Religion in the sense is EXTREMELY the most effective and tactful WMD which can influence destruction of ALL or some civilizations and all sorts of mayhem. This is the reason and the Mission's cause to rid of this problem in a slow but effective manner coming hopefully into hundreds of years of development. Saalome and BE WELL to ALL Jeedi Member Post Number: 14 Registered: 11-2003 Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 - 06:48 pm:        Hello Jay, Still laughing? I think you are right, the word religion means that which becomes from the religious experience (the rocks, the temple, the song…). Okay…so, Religion is a person(s), place or thing. Maybe it is the “religious”…thoughts, actions, and words, rhetoric that feeds the thing? Here is something useful for this discussion from the Figu site: "WHAT IS RELIGION? WHAT IS RELEGEON? To define the difference between religion and relegeon, the spirit plane ARAHAT ATHERSATA has disclosed the following: “Chapter IV, Evolution, Verses 75-80 75. Only relegeon (Ed. comment: spiritual experience, real human development growth…) must be used for evolution – never religion (Ed. Note: attack at truth) as implemented according to your current concepts on Earth. 77. Yet, a religious-type format, that is, a reverse link (Ed. comment: non-Creational, coarsest matter, Un-Truth…), destroys relegeon already in its basic substance and prevents it from ever finding fertile ground. 79. From relegeon originates effective knowledge, which results in further wisdom and knowledge. 80. These, in turn, ensure that the path of evolution may be entered into through both forms. Relegeon is the factor leading back toward the Creative Truth, toward the Ur-Truth of all Creative growth. Expressed in a religious sense, religion implies a reverse-bond to a god, respectively a creator, within the constraints of religions, to whom man must subordinate himself.” Any thoughts; anybody else? Best regards, Anthony Howard Member Post Number: 116 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Saturday, December 20, 2003 - 10:01 am:        I find religion, at least some sorts of religion to be a tool of freedom, an idea that sets each human free to experience the spiritual world with a kind of guide. The spiritual teachings and its extreme laws and commandments is a kind of tool for brainwashing the spiritual self. There is no other possibility in the spiritual, everything is done and said from the beginning of, for us poor humans, tormented by creation to go the path of already set rules. Its allover a path to non-existence, bringing up spirits that is bound to loose. Born to loose, live to win! ;) Jay Member Post Number: 237 Registered: 01-2002 Posted on Saturday, December 20, 2003 - 04:58 pm:        Howard, Well at least we know that the Vatican is a source inspirationa for spiritual freedom. Its down fall will eventually make them free. Saalome and BE WELL to ALL Jeedi Member Post Number: 16 Registered: 11-2003 Posted on Saturday, December 20, 2003 - 07:39 pm:        Hi Howard, You said that you find "...religion to be a tool of freedom...with a kind of guide." May I ask: A. Do you think a person should be forever below a guide (let's say teacher for example) under his hand of control, to watch his "greatness", leaving student thinking that they can never win above him? Or B. Do you think a spiritual guide is just a master example, with student in control to take responsibility for lessons, with freedom to think that with time and work can even advance further than him? In your opinion, if you will, which guide (A or B) is brainwashing? Best regards, Anthony Anonymous Member Post Number: 10 Registered: 09-2003 Posted on Sunday, December 21, 2003 - 03:37 am:        It's funny that you should say that, Howard. Speaking for myself, the spiritual teachings have done for me what you say religion has done for you. And I regard religion with precisely the same feelings as you regard the spiritual teachings. So from my point of view, your comprehension of what is actually true concerning these two bodies of knowledge is back to front, while from your point of view, it is my comprehension that is in reverse. I think there is only one way to look at this, and that is naturally, and that which relates less to natural logic has got to be the less true. I don't see how religion can be a path to freedom. Its line of thought doesn't relate to reality. It relates to fantasy. Of course, this can be said to be my opinion. But when my opinion is factual it is not so much my opinion as it is a fact. Let us consider the concept of a resurrection. In Christianity this refers to being raised from the dead after one has been dead for many years, centuries even. To accept this concept and embrace it consciously will not set each human free to experience the spiritual world because it is detached from actuality, from what is true. This we know because experience teaches us that death is not reversible, especially after years of being dead, never mind centuries. But the promise of a resurrection is said to be made possible through God. Let us then consider the concept of God, and how he relates to natural logic. In the past, Christians had a clear concept of God. Besides his great power to control nature and perform miracles, they knew him to be a man. There was no doubt about it. God was not a woman. He was a man. That is why it states that man was created in the image of God. This of course could mean that God, being a man (human being), genetically engineered human beings. Or it could mean that he used his own seed to create a new race of human beings among already existing terrestrial human beings, as it states, more or less, at the beginning of the TJ. At least (these days) one can relate this to reality. But as time passed our concept of God altered. It became more magnificent, fantastical, probably because God didn't reveal himself as openly as his predecessors once may have done. Now it seems Christians are afraid to define God for fear of being ridiculed in a predominantly secular world, although ironically there are more religious people in the world than there are non-religious people. But perhaps that is because Christians in particular are beginning to see the falsehood of their religion (ask yourself why you are here). It is Christians themselves that have altered the concept of God and structure of their religion. But this lack of definition now affects New Agers, who define God as being spiritual energy. And it also affects Muslims, who refuse to define God, and say that he is referred to as "he" or "him" because it is impolite to say "it". Yet if God really exists, how can "his" appearance alter so drastically? From being a man with great power and control over nature he has become a faceless spiritual form of vague description. But how does he relate to natural logic? God is said to be the Creator of the universe, and to have always existed. It is said that there is no greater power than God. There is only one problem with this. He has an opposition – the Devil. It is inconceivable to think of a man as being all-powerful. I believe that this is one of the reasons why, especially in these days, we choose not to think of God as being a man, or male, since it is perceived as being a chauvinistic and overblown image of the male ego. And more than likely, at some point in history during the course of God’s transformation from man to spiritual energy, that is exactly what he represented. But it is equally inconceivable to think of God as an all-powerful spiritual form. It is not the existence of a spiritual form, or energy, that is being questioned here. It is the existence of this spiritual form as God. God represents Unity in this day and age. I don’t know what he represents in the minds of Christians, or Muslims, or Jews; but if he is anything of what they claim him to be, which is the source of all existence, he must also represent Unity, since it is only reasonable to conclude that, as the source of all existence, all things must therefore return to God. But it seems there is that part of him that will not return to him, that will always remain apart from him; that part is the Devil, his demons, those who transgress against God, Hell. For this reason we must determine that God does not represent Unity. This relates to natural logic. So therefore God as the Creator of the universe and all existence does not relate to natural logic. But he would if he were understood to be a man, a human being, who was undoubtedly more powerful than ordinary human beings. You say, Howard, that there is no other possibility in the spiritual. I understand your feelings. The first time I came upon the concept of merging with Creation was when I started to delve into Buddhism. I rejected the thought immediately. It scared the hell out of me to think that I would cease to exist even as spirit. Like you I was raised believing in Eternal Life, which meant eternal existence of who I perceive myself to be. But it is the ego that rejects this, because it is not able to understand how it came to exist and why it should cease to exist. Like God the ego believes that it has always existed, and that it will always exist. The thought of death terrifies the ego. And the spiritual teachings do not appease it like religion does. That is not their intention. Their intention is to focus our minds on what is real and true, and as difficult as that may be for some of us to come to terms with, it is nevertheless the way it is.

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