| Author | Message | ||
    Junior Member Post Number: 34 Registered: 12-2004 |
Dear All, I remember some of you have talked about religious people not being wise and so on. I advise to check on the Edgar Cayce case which shows although he was very religious and promoting christianity, in his trance state being able to speak in a very profound wisdom, that actually concides with Billy's information. trust me the case is worth lookin at, i found many mp3 audiobooks (peer2peer networks) if you don't feel like reading his books at the beginning. which kind of proves that religion might not necessary mean any thing toward the evolution of the spirit. you might agree that he might have needed to learn some lessons and the only way is being a religious person. i don't know what it could be but its just a thought. Peace to all, and one Love Junior | ||
Der_beobachter Member Post Number: 39 Registered: 05-2003 |
The Belief http://www.gaiaguys.net/666.htm The Hinduism, the islamism, the Judaism, the Buddhism, and the Christianity, all of them divide the human beings of Earth. THEREFORE FREE YOURSELVES FROM THESE things!!! While we are very young maybe most of us are not largely affected by the conflicts of life, for the concerns, for the passing and brief happiness we have, for physical disasters, for the fear of death and the mental distortions that weigh on the oldest generation. Happily, while we are young, most of us still don't meet in the battlefields of life. But, as we grow old and become aged, the problems, the anguishes, the doubts, the economical and interior fights, all this begins to accumulate in us, and then we want to find the sense of the life, then we all want to know what is the meaning of life. We get perplexed with the conflicts, with the pains, with the poverty, with the disasters. We want to know why some people are well put and some people are not; why a human being has health, is intelligent, well-endowed, capable, while another human being is not. AND if we are little demanding, we were soon arrested by some hypothesis, by some theory or faith; we found an answer, but it is never the true answer. We have then verified that life is ugly, painful, sad, and we began to inquire; but having not enough own trust, energy, intelligence, innocence, to continue inquiring, and soon we are picked in the meshes of some theory or faith, speculations or doctrines that explains satisfactorily all this. Little by little our faiths and dogmas become deeply rooted and unshaken, because behind them there is a constant fear of the unknown. We have never examined the fear; we strayed from it and we took refuge in our faiths, - the Hinduist, the Buddhist, the Christian, the Jewish, the Islamic - we then have in truth verified that all of them just divide the human beings of planet Earth. Each group of dogmas and faiths possess a series of rituals, a series of compulsions that they tie the mind and they only separate one man from the other. (Jiddhu Krishnamurti)} ***************************** "Who will not comprehend the truth with his understanding, but only with his belief, can not harvest the fruit from it." OM 53:26 Wer die Wahrtheit nicht mit seinem Verstande, sondern mit Glauben erfassen will, der kann die Früchte aus ihr nicht ernten. - OM 53:26. ********************************** Passages below from Dialogues of Semjase with Billy Meier. Contact Nr. 45, Wednesday, February 25, 1975, 03:04hrs, quoting line 146. Buch/Book Plejadisch-plejarische Kontaktberichte, Gespräche, Block 2 (Plejadian-Plejaren Contact reports, Dialogues, Block 2) (Non official english translation by Gaiaguys) 145. Der Zahlenwert 666 trifft auf die deutschsprachigen Werte Gott, Kirche, Christ und Jesus zu. 145. The numerical value of 666 corresponds to the the German language values of God, Church, Christ and Jesus.  Image of Antilogos=666 http://www.gaiaguys.net/666.htm 146. Jesus ist die lügenhafte Bezeichnung für Jmmanuel, der sich schon zu seinen Lebzeiten gegen diese Benennung verwehrte, weil er die Zukunft kannte und wusste, was aus ihm gemacht würde. 146. Jesus is the mendacious title for Jmmanuel who already during his life time rebelled against this title, because he recognised the future and knew what would be made out of him. *****WISEFUL WORDS FROM TALMUD JMMANUEL******* TJ 32:45. Und in den Sternen stehet es zu lesen, dass die dem neuen Zeitalter gleichlaufenden Menschen grosse Umwälzer sein werden, und so auch einige spezielle Vorbestimmte, die die neuen Künder meiner lehre sein werden also, die sie aber unverfcilschet und mit grossem Mut werden predigen TJ 32:45. "And it can be read in the stars that the people of the new age will be great revolutionaries. Thus, some special predestined people, who will be the new proclaimers of my teachings, will preach them unfalsified and with great courage." (From Talmud Jmmanuel Chapter 32) TJ 35:41. Dies aber wird sein in zweinmal tausend Jahren, ehe die Zeit kommen wird, da meine Lehre unverfäschet neu gepredit wird, wenn der Stand der Irrlehren und Irrkulte und der Lug und Betrug und Trug der Totenbeschwörer, der Wahrsager und Hellseher sowie aller Scharlatane um die Wahrheit am höchsten sein wird. TJ 35:41. "It will be two times a thousand years before the time comes when my teachings will be preached anew, without being falsified. This will occur when false doctrines and erroneous cults, when lies and fraud, and when deception by the conjurers of the dead and of spirits, by the soothsayers and clairvoyants, as well as by all the charlatans of the truth, will be at their peak. TJ 23:49. Die harten Worte der Wahrheit selbst werden belehrendes Gericht und Strafe sein für alle, die irren lehren nachleben und die Weisheit des Geistes erniedrigen.» TJ 23:49. "The harsh words of truth themselves will be the instructive judgment and penalty for all those who live according to false teachings and degrade the wisdom of the spirit." (TJ Chapter 23) TJ 21:29. Hütet euch daher der irren und verfälschten lehren der Zukunft, die mich als Sohn der Schöpfung beschimpfen werden und als Sohn Gotte. TJ 21:29. "Therefore, beware of the false and adulterated future teachings that will insult me when they call me the Son of Creation and the Son of God." (TJ Chapter 21) TJ 21:30. Aus diesen irren lehren nämlich werden lügen gewickelt, und durch sie wird die Welt viel Not und Elend leiden. TJ 21:30. "From these false teachings, lies will be spun, and because of them the world will suffer much deprivation and misery. " (TJ Chapter 21) TJ 26:37. So du das land der Hellenen wirst mit deiner irren lehre in Knechtschaft eines bösen Kultes legen, so wirst du mich in ihrer Sprache den Gesalbten nennen. TJ 26:37. 'Just as you will bind the land of the Greeks to an evil religious cult because of your false teachings, so you will call me "the Anointed" in their language.' (TJ Chapter 26: Jmmanuel speaking to Saul/Paul.) * TJ 26:38. Es wird sein die Schuld deines Unverstandes, dass man mich nennen wird den Jesus Christus, was da heisst der Gesalbte. TJ 26:38. "It will be your fault, due to your lack of understanding, that they will call me Jesus Christ, which means 'the Anointed.' " (TJ Chapter 26) TJ 26:39. Und es wird sein die Schuld deines Unverstandes, dass fHessen wird durch diesen Namen Menschenblut, soviel, dass es nicht mehr gefasset wird in allen Behältern. TJ 26:39. "And it will be your fault, due to your lack of understanding, that human blood will be shed in this name, so much that it cannot be held in all existing containers. (TJ Chapter 26) ************************************************ Visit updated webpage below to learn more. http://www.gaiaguys.net/666.htm Der Beobachter Edelweiß | ||
Dplotmach Member Post Number: 82 Registered: 09-2004 |
(something I published on my website, thought I could share it here since no-one is looking at it ;) THE DESTRUCTION OF THE HUMAN, FROM ITS NATURAL STATE, THROUGH RELIGION The human with great strength is the person who has learned how to think logical, to realize the basic truth, and to trust ones innermost pure feelings. Not feelings of to negative or to positive nature, as in hate and euphorical fantasy-affected thoughts(delusions). The joyfull, allways progressive human is those with a neutral-positive nature. That means to logically examine every possible thing, thus realizing the truth about various matters. And to use one steadily developing sense of what is right and wrong, the inner pure feelings, to guide one in different matters. If these three points are combined, in a healthy body with a healthy psyche, they lead to great strength, and an increasing power to lead ones own life as one wants it, and be a good example to others. These people, in our world, are very few in numbers. Most people, through religion, or false ideologies, has clouded their ability to think logical because of the twisted "truth" they have been learnt to trust. The feelings might be distorted due to this false reality-view, which the person has tied his emotions unto. In some religions this leads to a negative view on oneself, and a overly positive fantasy about something else that is going to save one from oneself. This leads to a less degree of using ones own capabilities, the fantasy might be destroyed/altered from its pure form, the inner pure feelings is tainted with religious ideas, the body is considered "sinfull" which leads to unsatisfied natural desires. Ones own life is not to be controlled by oneself, rather from an outer source. On top of all of this, these people, which might be even parents, is supposed to be good examples to others. It is totally twisting EVERYTHING from its natural, creative state. | ||
Barbarotico Member Post Number: 21 Registered: 12-2005 |
When I was boy the Jehovah Withness told me that Satan and his demons built and burry the dinosaur's bones with the proposit of lead astray the humanity. They told me that the earth and the entire universe was created in only 7000 years. They told me that the mas was created with the only purporse of living forever in the flesh in a paradise together with the animals in happines. They told me that a simple bit on an apple with a worm inside created a question of universal importance that extend trough the inmensity of the universe for trillions and trillions of light years, and that all tha ettention of the universe focused on this tiny earth. Blaaaaaablaaaablaaaa...jejeje... That can't sound more ridiculous. | ||
Markc Member Post Number: 276 Registered: 06-2000 |
Complete Illogic : A young person will go to a religious university (in the west) and study Science , where the earth is understood to be millions/ billions of years old , only to be taught by the religion that the Earth is only 6000 years old . A conflict of intelligence /interest. Of course , noone involved in the family or the institution wants to discuss it , in a classroom , lab or lecture . Mark Campbell | ||
Consolato Member Post Number: 104 Registered: 10-2005 |
Funny you should say that about the Jehovah's religion. This is apparently totally true about what I'm about to say here about the jehovah's witness religion, and think that it will make most people shake their heads here in disbelief. If a jehovah's witness son had an accident and suddenly lost lots of blood from his injuries, and was rushed to the local hospital and the hospital told the father that his son imediately needs an injection of donour blood given to him or else he will die from loss of blood, the father would not give the hospital his consent to have the injection of donour blood given to his son because of a one sentence that is in the jehovah's witness bible that reads "thou shall not mix blood". That is true, and is it not religion just gone crazy? If I were standing next to that father when the hospital told him that, I would say to him if he knew that the bible was written 100 years after the death of Jesus Christ, and then tell him as well if he knew that most of what is in the bible is nothing more then stories that were handed down through a number people over a period of many years before they got to be written in the bible. I would then tell if he knew what happens to stories when they get handed down through a number of people over a period of many years like the the stories that are in the bible, and would asked him if he knew that when this happens to stories, the stories lose part of what they were originally saying and very frequently a lot of stories get completely turned around to what they originally meant. I would then also tell him that there is no way of anyone really knowing what is right and what is wrong in the bible because of this, and then would say this bluntly to him that the bible is the last book in the world that anyone should ever take as being word perfect or at face value. Then I would say this loudly to him, "and what are doing letting your son die because of some hand me down sentence that is in your bible which probably got changed around to what it was originally meant!!" and then I would tell him that if he just lets his son's die because of a hand me down sentence that is in his religions bible, I would quite clearly say to him "that him and his stupid religion are both just plain crazy, and have lost the plot, and not in touch with realility!" Have some religions and their worshippers have not gone just plain crazy today?? Con | ||
Consolato Member Post Number: 107 Registered: 10-2005 |
I forgot to say that I read that story in the newspaper a couple of years ago now. And for anyone who wants to know, the hospital told the father to stick his consent up his Comment Deleted and had given the son the injection of donour blood he so badly needed. | ||
Jo_jo Member Post Number: 104 Registered: 04-2003 |
Billy and the Plejarans have also indicated that the “mixing of blood” should not occur, specifically in regards to interracial marriage. It is said to lower immunity to disease in the offspring, not to say anything about the social consequences of creating new races. They have also spoken out against organ transplantation, preferring artificial organs. I’m not sure of their position on blood transfusions, but I bet they have objections to those too. However, I do not mean to imply they recommend the alternative of death. Man is necessarily barbaric and needs to progress through these unavoidable stages. | ||
Der_beobachter Member Post Number: 44 Registered: 05-2003 |
Hello Everyone, Good News!!! NEW TRANSLATION OF THE CONTACT NOTES ONLINE AT GAIAGUYS!!! The swindler, charlatan, spy, and freemason, Master Saint Germain. A few days ago Dyson and Vivienne just finished a new work of translation from the Contact Notes in german language. The new english translation is online right now. This page is dedicated to the followers of these famous movements such as: I AM MOVEMENT, BRIDGE TO FREEDOM, CUT - CHURCH UNIVERSAL AND TRIUMPHANT, AMONG MANY OTHERS existent all around the planet which teach only false teachings, lies, deceiving of innocent people, and also are only PROFIT MAKERS. The theme discussed between Semjase and Herr Billy Meier is about the charlatan known worldwide as Count Saint Germain - (yes the crazy DELUSIONAL "Violet Flamme" one)  THE FREEMASON "SAINT CHARLATAIN" HEY THERE "I AMMERS", "VIOLET FLAMMERS"....GERMAIN IS A CHARLATAN..SAINT "CHARLATAIN"..." "...In his lifetime he was the greatest deceiver, charlatan, liar and spy, and indeed in the service and commission of a sect in Germany which was obsessed with world domination at that time." - Semjase (about Saint Germain) The SG related contact is this one below: Pleiadian/Plejaren Contact Reports, Volume 2 44th Contact - Monday, February 16th, 1976, 3:10AM - Pages 78-79 & 84-86 And it is an unauthorized preliminary (and excellent)translation made by Vivienne Legg and Dyson Devine of www.gaiaguys.net I am in the process of gathering more information about this t. Germain and his relations to many important personalities of Europe in 16th century in order to put it all together in one page that Dyson and Vivienne will put online. This will take quite a while but the final work will be worth to wait for it. One reference sample I myself have found in my country (from a Freemasonis book): FREEMASONRY AND THE CATHEDRAL BUILDERS "In this exact point is where we can understand the origins of the Speculative Freemasonry. In the twilight of the great constructions, of which the last ones were the cathedrals of Middle Age, it was urgent that the land was prepared for the time which was coming near. All the August Mysteries that were perpetuated until then by the Labor Works now would have to pass - out from the religious extent - for a deep symbolism so that the future initiates could take advantage and to work in its extension. It was what happened at the end of the XVII century and the beginning of the century when Initiates XVIII such as Count Saint Germain' started to prepare the bases for the so called SCOTTISH RITE OF THE ANCIENT, FREE AND ACCEPTED FREEMASONS. Here, amid so many and so different opinions of the so called masonic "authorities", that they ignore the basic points on the occult side of the Order when they explain the origins of the Scottish Rite, we stand particularly with the opinion of Jean Palou in his work the Symbolic and Inititiatic Freemasonry. As we will see, countless proofs attest the depth of his statements." THE MISTS OF SCOTTISH RITE - Extracted from the freemasonic book: The AGE OF THE LIGHTS, by brazilian author Arthur Franco,Wodan, 1997, Porto Alegre city -Brazil. Freemasonic excerpt with reference to SAINT GERMAIN above translated by Edelweiß Enjoy this brand new translation here at gaiaguys: http://www.gaiaguys.net/meierv2p78-79&84-86&v3p12.htm Or copy and paste this link below: http://www.gaiaguys.net/meierv2p78-79&84-86&v3p12.htm Spread the word! Der Beobachter Edelweiß _________________________________________________ "Lernen, ohne zu denken, ist eitel; denken, ohne zu lernen, ist gefährlich..." "Learning without thinking is vain. Thinking without learning is dangerous..." | ||
David_chance Member Post Number: 88 Registered: 03-2003 |
Hi Jo_Jo, I refer to your post at http://forum.figu.org/us/messages/863/26.html#POST17299 in which you state, "Billy and the Plejarans have also indicated that the “mixing of blood” should not occur, specifically in regards to interracial marriage. It is said to lower immunity to disease in the offspring, not to say anything about the social consequences of creating new races." I was wondering if you could supply a reference for where in the FIGU literature it states this. I have been bothered by this post since I first read it. My wife and I are from different races, though we do not plan on having children. Thank you. | ||
Edward Member Post Number: 605 Registered: 05-2002 |
Hi David and Jojo... What I can recall is that it all just depends on the situation. Of course, every human race should create offspring within their own tribe(s), if possible. But of course, there can be exceptions...caused by curtain circumstances. That is why on each planet where human life can sustain itself...has 3 or more Tribal Races. And of course, they all evolve at their own Pace: Spiritually and Materially. What I do remember, is that: it can come to a time/point of manifestation ...that a curtain human tribal race may/can "Loose" its/their - Gene Pool Strength - ability, so to speak, and than it would come in handy to inter- mix with other tribal races other than their own. By doing so, which will than Generate and Optimize their Gene Pool..once again(to a curtain point of course...depending how it all further evolves through time). And if they do not...do so, they will just "fade" away...so to speak. So, to survive...the mentioned possibility and option should/can be executed. So, the just mentioned can be a "necessity" in a curtain time frame(after millions of millions of millions of years of existence without any inter- racial injection) when/if needed. Of course, Man should always try and keep his Tribal Race "Pure or, Straight"...so to speak..for the betterment of their Existence; and their Evolution pattern: Spiritually and Materially ...etc...etc. You know what will/can manifest if different Levels of Evolved human beings confront with each other concerning curtain issues or matters, not? Just look around you and you will know what I mean? There are indeed, many different levels of evolved human beings manifesting upon us all. And it speaks for itself...that it may clash...to a curtain point...of misunderstanding. It is to be recognized, that every Tribal Race learns at their own pace, and thus, step by step, slowly absorbing what surrounds them. But of course, there is no harm in inter-racial relationships and marriages when having their offspring. As long as we human beings are Healthy: Mentally and Physically and strong enough to take care of the Consequences that lie ahead of us all. This all would speak for itself. Perhaps, someone else here, can fill in some more knowledge of the concerning? Edward. | ||
Norm Member Post Number: 814 Registered: 02-2000 |
Is there any data to back this up "immunity to disease in the offspring". If there is its never reported in the Media. | ||
Jo_jo Member Post Number: 114 Registered: 04-2003 |
David, I was shocked to read the info recommending against interracial marriage and the producing of offspring from those marriages. It seems counter-intuitive when viewed against the animal world, where “pure-bred” animals (specifically dogs) seem to have more health problems and shorter life-spans. Maybe that’s a result of over-breeding. My recollection of the source of the info was the discussion forum, going back a few years, somewhere in the 2000-2002 timeframe. I can’t precisely attribute the source of the quote, only that it was from someone more knowledgeable about the Meier case than me. I’ll let you know if I’m able to recall anything more precise. | ||
Scott Moderator Post Number: 784 Registered: 12-1999 |
Please lets get back to the topic of "Religion" | ||
Hector Member Post Number: 36 Registered: 04-2006 |
What do you think about Pope Ratzinger recent words in his visit to Auschwitz concentration camp :GOD, WHY DID YOU REMAIN SILENT THEN? Either this man is infinitely ignorant, he is full of hypocresy, or he is simply a criminal. During WWII,the christian church and the vatican did absolutely NOTHING to avoid the holocaust.Perhaps they helped it to occur. | ||
Der_beobachter Member Post Number: 53 Registered: 05-2003 |
Hello Hector, Hector, Are you talking about the visit Herr Natzinger also known as pope made to the infamous Auschwitz concentration camp? Yes, certainly..I saw it in TV also. So much hypocrisy from this mouse..er...rat..I mean this Herr RATzinger Maybe this can answer to your very good question. Images are worth one thousand words. Spread these images all over the world all those of you who see and read this posting.   Photo of The RATzinger as Nazi Youth Member.    The Most Holy Saints Catholic Bishops giving the Zieg Heil Christ/Antilogos/666 Nazi salute in honor of Hitler. Priests giving the Hitler salute Priests giving the Hitler salute at a Catholic youth rally in the Berlin-Neukölln stadium in August 1933. National Bishop Friedrich Coch giving a Hitler greeting in Dresden, 10 December 1933 Dresden pastor Friedrich Coch is one of the leading men of the "German Christians" in Saxony. The NSDAP's Gau consultant for church matters since 1932, he is elected to the office of state bishop by the "Brown Synod" in August 1933. Reich Bishop Ludwig Müller, Berlin, 1934 (Photo source: Gedenkstätte Deutscher Widerstand)    The Sunday Times April 17, 2005 "...Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, whose strong defence of Catholic orthodoxy has earned him a variety of sobriquets — including “the enforcer”, “the panzer cardinal” and “God’s rottweiler” — is expected to poll around 40 votes in the first ballot as conservatives rally behind him. Although far short of the requisite two-thirds majority of the 115 votes, this would almost certainly give Ratzinger, 78 yesterday, an early lead in the voting. Liberals have yet to settle on a rival candidate who could come close to his tally. Unknown to many members of the church, however, Ratzinger’s past includes brief membership of the Hitler Youth movement and wartime service with a German army anti- aircraft unit. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-1572667,00.html The new Pope was Hitler Youth, part of the Nazi military, and is head of the “former” Holy Inquisition. Apparently he didn’t like those roles though (except the latter). When Ratzinger turned 14 in 1941, he was required by law to join the Hitler Youth , but according to his biographer John Allen he was not an enthusiastic member. In 1943, at the age of 16 he was, along with the rest of his class, drafted into the Flak or anti-aircraft corps, responsible for the guarding of a BMW plant outside Munich. He was then sent for basic infantry training and was posted to Hungary, where he worked setting up anti-tank defences until he deserted in April 1944 (an offence punishable by death). In 1945 he was briefly held in an Allied POW camp. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Cardinal_Ratzinger Hitler wth Archbishop Cesare Orsenigo, the papal nuncio in Berlin, 1935 On April 20, 1939, Archbishop Orsenigo celebrated Hitler's birthday. The celebrations, initiated by Pacelli (Pope Pius XII) became a tradition. Each April 20, Cardinal Bertram of Berlin was to send "warmest congratulations to the Fuhrer in the name of the bishops and the dioceses in Germany" and added with "fervent prayers which the Catholics of Germany are sending to heaven on their altars." ******* Final word, from the true teachings Talmud Jmmanuel: TJ 36:35. Es wird kommen über sie eine blinde Zerstörungswut, und unter ihnen werden die Helden sein jene, die die grössten Zerstörer sind. TJ 36:35. "A blind, destructive mania will overcome them, and the heroes among them will be those who are the greatest destroyers. TJ 36:35. "Una ciechi e distruttiva follia li sormonteranno e gli eroi fra loro saranno quelli che sono i più grandi disttrutori. TJ 36:36. Zwiespalt wird durchziehen alles leben des Menschen, und da eine Gespaltenheit ist, da ist nicht mehr ein Ganzes und keine Vollkommenheit. TJ 36:36. "Conflict will permeate people's entire lives, and where there is discord there is no longer wholeness and perfection. TJ 36:36. "il conflitto pervaderà le intere vite di persone, e dove c'è discordia là non è più l'integrità e perfezione. TJ 36:37. Solange aber Unvollkommenheit im leben herrschet, müssen auch die Folgen getragen werden vom Menschen, und die sind da die Krankheit und das Elend und die Ungerechtigkeit und die Not und der Streit und der Hader und Sklaverei und irre Kulte und die Ausbeutung bis zum Blute und dem Tode. TJ 36:37. "But as long as imperfection exists in life, humans must bear the consequences: sickness, misery, injustice, privation, fighting, strife, slavery,erroneous cults and exploitation leading to bloodshed and death. TJ 36:37. "Ma finchè l'imperfezione esiste nella vita, gli esseri umani devono sopportare le conseguenze: malattia, miseria, ingiustizia, privazione, schiavitù,culti erronei e lo sfruttamento che conducono a spargimento di sangue e morte. TJ 36:38. So achte der Mensch dessen und wache auf: Nur was zeitlos ist und unvergänglich, ist von Bestande und Wahrheit und Weisheit, denn so sagen es die Gesetze der Schöpfung, und so ist es. TJ 36:38. "So let humankind beware and awaken, for the laws of Creation state: Only that which is timeless and everlasting is of permanence, of truth and of wisdom, and so it is.” TJ 36:38. "Così lasci l'umanità guardarsi da e sveglia, dato che le leggi della creazione dichiarano: Solamente quello che è senza tempo ed eterno è di permanenza, della verità e della saggezza, e cosí è.” Excerpts taken from Talmud Jmmanuel Translated into Italian language (non-official - texts in blue color) by Der Beobachter Edelweiß in honor to Herr Ratzinger. He certainly reads Italian very well…und auch Deutsche Sprache, then..it means HE can read EVERY SINGLE ONE book, leaflet, and all the material avaiable in German Language to REALIZE HE Herr Ratzinger is the most..the most.. the most.. no words to define it...he is more LOW then the belly of an earthworm. Dear moderator, please use this posting here and delete the same previous one... I have fixed some typos... thank you. delete this comment also my Figu friend please Der Beobachter Edelweiß _________________________________________________ "Lernen, ohne zu denken, ist eitel; denken, ohne zu lernen, ist gefährlich..." "Learning without thinking is vain. Thinking without learning is dangerous..." | ||
Jo_jo Member Post Number: 140 Registered: 04-2003 |
I ask the indulgence of the moderators to post here a copy of the Q&A to Billy regarding mixed race procreation, for the sake of clarity and completeness, since there was an unanswered question in this string. Perhaps the whole string can be relocated to a more appropriate section. Thank you. Posted on Sunday, June 18, 2006 - 05:16 pm: Hello Billy, Are there any reasons recommending against mixed-race couples procreating offspring? I seem to recall reading that children borne of mixed-race coupling had lowered immune systems or increased susceptance to disease; however I cannot find any references corroborating this statement. In the bulletin “A Crusade Against Overpopulation” there is reference to mixed-race marriages but nothing indicating health problems in the resulting descendants. Answer If this happens sparsely, it’s ok. But the mixing of races in great numbers will bring degeneration because of genetic effects. | ||
Norm Member Post Number: 991 Registered: 02-2000 |
Does anyone remember that quote about the group Black Sabbath & the song 666 & the Anti-Logos or was it the cover of the album with 666 on it that Billy was talking about? I can't find it.  My Website | ||
Jo_jo Member Post Number: 190 Registered: 04-2003 |
Norm, I somewhat recall what you’re bringing up with the reference to 666 and Black Sabbath. My recollection is that it was a FIGU member, Andrew Cossette, that said the effects of the 666/WUV began manifesting at the time the Black Sabbath album with 666 on the cover came out. I took it that Andrew was just having fun with the Black Sabbath thing. Regrettably nothing comes up in a search of the site for Andrew’s original post. | ||
Edward Member Post Number: 646 Registered: 05-2002 |
Hi Norm.... I do remember it being mentioned here on this board, in the past. It was some years back. I did a search, but it does not seem to be posted anymore!!?? It should be there. If I am correct, it was mentioned that Black Sabbath were to reform again, and bring out an Album/CD, and this event was related to up coming of World War Three - or not, or something? Help me a bit on that, Norm? But, as I know it: Black Sabbath had a reunion years back in there original line-up, and can not remember them bring out a new Album/CD in that line-up. So, Black Sabbath in its old line-up is History. They do not exist anymore. And will never be an existing band under that name. Edward. | ||
Markc Member Post Number: 362 Registered: 06-2000 |
And now the fate of the world rests on ..... Black Sabbath !! By all means necessary , to prevent the reunion !! This is a job for Scooby and Co. ! This reminds me of the Woody Allen movie " What's up tiger lily " , where the fate of the world depended on the recipe for potato salad . Sorry , it just gave me a laugh .... Mark Mark Campbell | ||
Norm Member Post Number: 992 Registered: 02-2000 |
Black Sabbath did reunite. But what Billy said had to due with the 70s & its not that Black Sabbath are any part of it. Its just that a sign of the anti-logos being in full swing will be marked by either their album having 666 on it or a song called 666 by them. My Website | ||
Edward Member Post Number: 647 Registered: 05-2002 |
Hi Mark.... I do not think Norm and myself were referring that Black Sabbath were to play an 'Inciting' role to World War III. We were just mentioning them being one of the 'Aspects' in the Events Of Circumstances 'Related' to; just as the 4 heads of states...and so forth. Remember: a Prophecy can still be "Altered"! Edward. | ||
Markc Member Post Number: 363 Registered: 06-2000 |
Thanks Norm ; What I do know about the Sabs is that none of them are into anything 'satanic' , they started the theme for a Halloween show after they played jazz at their inception and decided to do something dramatic . They have always been hardworking class men from an industrial English town . Alice Cooper is the same way with all that mock-horror ; it's just for show , and they're intelligent enough to know that anything to do with 'satan' is just 'bullocks' . Anyone who's seen Ozzy Osbourne at home could see that he's just a good natured guy who loves his family and rock and roll . Mark Mark Campbell | ||
Norm Member Post Number: 995 Registered: 02-2000 |
I agree its not as if I'm saying he's an insider or anything. I just wanted to find the ironic info Meier mentioned about BS. My Website | ||
Michael_d Member Post Number: 131 Registered: 03-2003 |
I would conjecture that there’s a major difference in causal effect in bringing about WWIII between 4 heads-of-state dying (assassinated?) and whatever a rock ‘n roll band might do. 4 heads-of-state being killed (my supposition) within a short period of time might just bring about the conditions to start WWIII depending on what states they head. | ||
Celestialbrother Member Post Number: 17 Registered: 06-2006 |
Hi all. Billy Meier says that the Bible is wrong account and has been chnaged. But its important to remember that there are many religions that believe in One Supreme God. If the Bible was changed, then where did other religions come from? Also, all religions have a strong statement about its belief, and they also warn us of false prophets, how do we know that the Plejarens aren't the same? | ||
Psycloud Member Post Number: 37 Registered: 06-2006 |
I think they take it out of context, at least preachers do, most people read those types of verses and apply them to the whole of the bible, when in actualality they only applied to that particular book. But I think a lot of followers and preachers use it as a statement to get people into the idea that "their particular sect is right" and anything else is wrong because they must be false prophets, this is only to prevent losing membership in the churches point of view in my opinion. I am truthful to the extend at which I know the truth. | ||
Celestialbrother Member Post Number: 18 Registered: 06-2006 |
Hi Psycloud, I am not saying the Plejarans are False Prophets, but what evidence do we have to consider what they are saying as true. Many people claim to be abducted and contacted and Billy says all other cases are hoaxes. Now, for a moment consider let us consider the Bible, we have to be true. It warns us of false prophets, how do we know that the Plejarans are NOT these false prophets, I mean if there was a teaching like the one Billy claims, like the TJ, there must be other sources too. I understand that the Plejarans are highly intelligent and spiritually evolved beings to give correct information but, is there any furthur evidence other than Billy's to prove what we are saying about Immanuel or Jesus? | ||
Rarena Member Post Number: 67 Registered: 10-2005 |
Psycloud and Celestialbrother, These things may be better solved without logic so much as with inner knowing... from within. Billy Meier uses the scientific method where needed and his intuitive powers to decern information given from our anscestors and universal neighbors. If he dosn't know, he tells you, he does not use his imagination to fill in the blanks. It is illogical to believe we are the only life form in the Universe... It dosn't feel right to be the only living things when nature is so complete and complex, yet simple. Nature is infinite, not finite. After having read Matthew and the Talmud Jemmanual, the TJ made more sense and "felt" right. The "star" of Bethlehem for example... a ringing metallic sound was heard a bright beam of light decended to the manger where Jmmanuel was to be born. Gabriel being a Celestial Brother makes more sense than proclaiming Earth to be the center of the Universe and Mary getting pregant without doing it... at least in the "normal way". Higher technology rings true. Illusion and delusion does not seem to fit here, nor does magic. People lie... and over two thousand years later... the facts will most likely be changed. The thing that really gets me about the bible is not one copy of the Aramaic version is available and there are forty or more renditions of it. That and the fear based system of correction perpetrated by most religions makes it not "feel" right. To use your mind is a great and valuable thing, Billy's information is both volumnous and never changing. Things that are true never change. Tschüs... Love to all... rarena ô¿ô Saalome gam naan ben uurda, gan njjber asaala hesporoona. Please see here for correct pronuciation: http://www.theyfly.com/salome/salome.htm Peace be on Earth, and among all beings. PS> Trying to get this message out to people who know nothing of it is not an easy task. It is met with ignorance and disbelief. Interpretation/Translation, Content/Context can be misconstrued, and for 2000 years that has, in all probability, been true as well. PPS> Do you think the arc of the covenent was a UFO? Gold with wings? | ||
Celestialbrother Member Post Number: 19 Registered: 06-2006 |
Hey Rarena, sup. You know you are right, actually the Bible is kind of funny and unscientific as you said. And of course Mary couldn't have become pregnant without doing 'it'. And also there is no center to the Universe, how can there be a center of an infinte system. But, is there any other evidence to support the TJ. I mean Mary says in the Bible to Jospeh, that hadn't laid beside as man and wife so how could she have become pregnant. Does the idea of her being impregnated by ETs sound plausable? Or its also possible that it happened, with you them having sex (isn't that even by the remotest chance possible?). Abt. the Ark of the Covanant: The ten commandments and stuff. It is said in the Bible that God commanded them to build it, but I think when the Bible speaks of 'God' it may refer to any ET, like Zebelon contacted Noankednosser (Noah) to build the ark (the boat).I don't think it is a UFO, its too small to be one, but who gave those commandments anyway? | ||
Junior Member Post Number: 99 Registered: 12-2004 |
Dear Celestialbrother, Regarding your point “But its important to remember that there are many religions that believe in One Supreme God. If the Bible was changed, then where did other religions come from?” Here is an excerpt from one of Billys books “Ein Offenes Wort” Page 166 *UNOFFICIAL TRANSLATION* 1215. Doch wenn man noch weiter zuruckgeht und die Anfänge des Judentums sucht, so stellt man plötzlich erstaunt fest, dass diese Kultreligion ihren Anfang grundsätzlich bei einem gewissen Pharao Echnaton fand, bei einem Aegypter, der als in der Religionsgeschichte erst bekannte Grösse den Monotheismus erfand - die Eingott - Religion. 1216. Der Ausgang dieses Geheimnisses führt zurück nach Aegypten, 1350 Jahre vor die sogenannte christliche Zeitrechnung, gegen das Ende der 18. Dynastie. 1217. Zu jener Zeit nämlich verkündete ein gewisser König Amenophis IV. eine neue Kult-Religion in sachen ATON als einzige Gottheit. 1215. However when one goes back to search the start of Judaism, much to our surprise one suddenly realises, that this cult religion had its fundamental origins from a certain Pharaoh Echnaton (Akhenaton), by an Egyptian, he was known in Religious History as the creator of the first large monotheism – The One God – Religion. 1216. The outcome of this secret goes back to Egypt, 1350 years before the so called Christian date, at the end of the 18th dynasty. 1217. At that time a certain king named Amenophis IV announced a new Cult Religion in that ATON is the only deity. In a way all the most well known religions have been changed beyond recognition (the most recent ones Buddhism Judaism Christianity and Islam) as according to Billy and the Plejarens that such people as Buddha, Jmmanuel and Mohammed were true prophets that taught the spiritual teachings that is being given to us again by Billy, in an unaltered form, if you ask your self how did the adulterators think of the one god theory, maybe because they were influenced by old religions like for example the above mentioned cult religion. And regarding another point you mentioned “and they also warn us of false prophets, how do we know that the Plejarens aren't the same?” Just look around the internet and see how many people claim to be prophets or chosen ones or what ever… then you will know why there were warnings advising people to take care of false prophets that are causing much pain, mostly mentally rather than physically but can be physical indirectly. And to your question how would we know if the Plejarens are true, the only thing I can tell you, that there is no solid proof of that, there is a lot of information to be investigated, and at this time there is a lot of work to be done to prove the case in all respects, at this time there are a lot of open question that will be answered especially with the development of technologies. If you feel you have time to spend on something useful then you can read all you find about the case maybe even learn German if you don’t already know it, to be able to read and decide for your self if this case is genuine. Rather then believing this guy or that guy. I don’t think you will find any case similar to this one with this much information that nobody has been able to disprove to this time. Regards, Peace to all, and one Love Junior | ||
Celestialbrother Member Post Number: 20 Registered: 06-2006 |
Hi Junior, Did the Pharoh introduce a Supreme Creator named ATON and from this came all the monothesic religions? When did he do this? | ||
Junior Member Post Number: 100 Registered: 12-2004 |
Hey CelestialBrother, Well it is not very easy to say that Amenophis IV was the first to create a monotheistic religion, it is rather meant that the idea of one god or supreme god goes as far back as this pharaoh which according to Billy lived 1350BC. So in a way if this idea goes that far back then it could have easily effected the mission of recent prophets. Regarding your discussion with Rarena you said “Does the idea of her being impregnated by ETs sound plausable? Or its also possible that it happened, with you them having sex (isn't that even by the remotest chance possible?).” Well for an ET to come to earth from where ever, they would need to have quite advanced technologically. And on the other hand look at were we are in technology at this point that we can procreate human life without the male and female ever meeting. In a way it is very easy to imagine that she might have been impregnated without even seeing the male partner. Just out of curiosity have your read the Talmud of Jmmanuel? Regards, Peace to all, and one Love Junior | ||
Celestialbrother Member Post Number: 21 Registered: 06-2006 |
No the TJ I have not read but I am searching for it. Another question I was was: Why do we write Jmmanuel instead of Emmanuel or Immanuel considering the pronounciation and why Semjase when its pronounced like Semyaaze? Considering the prophets and their information, we have books of the Bible stating the one concept. Who falsified the Bible anyway? | ||
Psycloud Member Post Number: 39 Registered: 06-2006 |
Interesting the Amenophis has the prefix "Amen" in it, does anyone know where Amen acually came from? Btw, how long is Ein Offenes Wort? Does anyone know who the Nephilim were, or even who the Raphilim were, I have heard many theories out there that these are reptilians, but i'm not willing to accept this theory, what does bily think? I am truthful to the extend at which I know the truth. | ||
David_chance Member Post Number: 101 Registered: 03-2003 |
There is a video called "The Naked Truth: Exposing the Deceptions About the Origins of Modern Religions" that was produced in 1992. If I remember correctly, the commentators state that the origins of the word "amen" go back to an ancient Egyptian diety called Amen-Ra. Whether or not this is correct I don't know, but it seems reasonable. There is an entry for Amen-Ra on Wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amen-ra I see that the video itself is now on Google video, nearly 2 hours long, but I found it to be very informative: video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6410112404402873027 | ||
Junior Member Post Number: 102 Registered: 12-2004 |
Dear CelestialBrother, I advise you to get the original book TJ from FIGU shop (wait for the last edition better, because of improved English translation), there is a limit what you can find on the internet about the Meier Case and Jmmanuel. Don’t rely on the internet for information about the subject. Since there is only 3 books in English its not that much... when I first started with the case I used to rely on the internet but soon found its very limited, FIGU also has quite a few booklets that are not too expensive, but are very informative. As far as I know the reason the “J” is used is because in German the J is pronounced as I. As last advice, try to search for the answers in the books, booklets and bulletins, sometimes you will find on the internet. Rather then asking questions, try to find it for yourself, if you just read all the sources there is, you will have answers on even questions that you haven’t thought of yet. Regards, Peace to all, and one Love Junior | ||
Junior Member Post Number: 103 Registered: 12-2004 |
Dear Psycloud, The book is about 280 pages, very interesting book, just finished it a couple of weeks ago, if you can read German that is, which I assume as I have seen you on the German discussion board. Regards, Peace to all, and one Love Junior | ||
Spaceman Member Post Number: 61 Registered: 06-2006 |
Hi forum members, Concerning the monothesic religion. I think it has been around even before 1350 B.C. The Bhagvad Gita is a holy text of the Hindus (specifically of the Gaudiya Vaishnaism sect) and its dated 4 millenniums ago. | ||
Psycloud Member Post Number: 43 Registered: 06-2006 |
Thanks David Does anyone know about the Devas and Danavas, and what they are, and maybe shed some light on the whole issue of the 3 floating, or should I say orbiting castles around the earth, and what those things really were. The wars described in the Mahabhrata (of which the Bhagavad Gita is just a small part of) are truly amazing, but I'm interested in the idea that there were the devas and danavas who fought each other in the sky with their vimanas, as well as blue skinned people who telepathically communicated with Arjuna (the main character in the story). Of course the devas and danavas are older then the Mahabhrata, because it is a story that retells a story from the past. I am truthful to the extend at which I know the truth. | ||
Spaceman Member Post Number: 62 Registered: 06-2006 |
Yes, Psycloud as you say the Mahabharata was not fought amongst devas (gods). Danavas are a dynasty in Assam, which is a state in the East of India. They are a very old dynasty with their kings being mythical, this story is another thing, but in the Mahabharata they are mentioned to fight. The Danavas along with many other tribes like Cinas (Chinese), Kambojas (people who lived in current day Afghanisthan, but not anymore), Yavana (Greeks), Shakas, Phalavas, Andhra and many more are described as barbaric tribes who live the lives of Dasyus. Now about Mahabharta, the battle was fought between cousins, the Pandavas and the Kauravas. They are of the Kuru clan. And they fought in Kurukshetra (Kuru + kshetra (field) = (Battle) field of the Kurus). The Pandavas are 5 in number and are sons of devas, the Kauravas are 100 in number and are the sons of men, many illustrious warriors are there also in the Kauravas side like Bhishma (a.k.a Bhishmapita, or father Bhishma),the grandsire of the clan. The Mahabharata was composed by Veda Vyasa, who was present in the story, he doesn't fight in the war. It consists of 74,000 verses (abt. 7 times the current bible) and out of these 700 are the Bhagvad Gita. I would guess that devas are beings from other worlds and fought in Vimanans actually there is a rare text, I don't recall the name, but it does exist. It speaks of the nature of wars in the previous eras and mentions Vimanas, of different types. Also their abilities like becoming invisible, detecing an invisible ship, firing missiles (in skt. known as Astra). And, I would think even that technology was somehow in N. India, as many a times Arjuna shoots many arrows so as to cover the Sun, surely thats something like a super-gun. Concernign Arjuna's contact with blue skinned people, are you speaking of his contact with Krishna? | ||
Scott Moderator Post Number: 892 Registered: 12-1999 |
Let's get back to the topic of Religion. | ||
Klausmaus Member Post Number: 15 Registered: 07-2006 |
I'm quite surprised we haven't heard from the pope-haters concerning the recent faux pax by Mr. Ratzinger. Is that because of new filtering operations by the moderators? | ||
Christian Moderator Post Number: 125 Registered: 02-2000 |
No, but perhaps because Mr. Ratzinger has to spoon out his soup himself. Besides, if everything would be commented that is going wrong in politics and religion, the storage capacities of our provider would be full in a few days.  | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 170 Registered: 07-2004 |
It's more efficient to list what is going right, very little. a friend in america Shawn | ||
Melli Member Post Number: 154 Registered: 06-2005 |
On a lighter note, if this d/b was having technical problems then Billy could ask his Plejaren friend Zafanekpeneak ?(I don't know how to spell his name correctly) to 'fix' the problems the same way he fixed Billy's computer/server. Imagine if we humans could command our computer to do what we need to do without all the hassles we encounter today. What a great name? I can only imagine how it sounds ???? Melli, You asked me a few weeks ago why some of your posts do not show up. Perhaps if you look at what you have just written and where you posted it, this may answer your question? To the best of my knowledge there is nothing wrong technically with the discussion board..... Scott-Moderator | ||
Melli Member Post Number: 155 Registered: 06-2005 |
Hi Scott, I couldn't resist post #15 by Klausmaus inquiring about the 'filtering operations by the moderators' and this is why I responded to it here. I do realize it doesn't exactly belong in this area but I thought in another arera it would be irrelevant, so I added my thoughts where I thought they would follow after the obove post. I think it's a bit of a mis-understanding, I wasn't very clear and if I am wrong again as you say, than I apologize. | ||
Psycloud Member Post Number: 47 Registered: 06-2006 |
Thanks Spaceman for clearing up the different groups I'm aware of Veda Vyasa and the story it self, but as to what they refered to in the real world, that is where i'm lost, and yes when I refer to the blue people in that story, I think of Krishna's people. And I realize the story is mainly about the war of the cousins, but why does Krishna refer back to this previous time of war, space war, i'm assuming. By the way, who is the "celestial Artificier" in these stories...the man or entity that supposedly build these 3 sky cities? I'm also aware of this separate ancient text that was found that was more like a technical manuel of the technology in those times, but i'm not sure what it is called either. Thanks for your hints though I am truthful to the extend at which I know the truth. | ||
Spaceman Member Post Number: 82 Registered: 06-2006 |
I am glad you are interested in the Hindu mythology. Yes, wars in space vehicles is not uncommon in Mythologies (even European). Krishna is said to have names like Shyam (evening) and also Nila (Dark Blue, like Prussian blue). So it may be possible that he is of the 'blue race'. But the fact that he claimed, that he is the Universes abode, makes it seem that he is One being. This is common in all religions, but is not true. Also, there is a third god in the trinity called Shiva. He is also depicted as dark in his manifested form and also regarded as a Supreme God mostly by south Indians, so it is possible that the too was of the 'blue race'. Regarding the one you refer to as "Celestial Artifier", he is most probably the Asura Maya. He was known to be an intelligent being, and said to have built three cities in Tripura (pur translates to city and Tri doesn't mean three, but is a abb.). The place Tripura still exists in India, it is a state. An asura is not necessarily evil ( this is seen in scriptures) but they are known to battle with the devas. The devas are lead by Ganesh (Gana = celestial army, pati = lord) in some texts and Kartikeya (Kartika = Plieades) in others, the asuras are usually without commander of various of them. In scriptures sometimes the gods and asuras are depicted like humans, with devas not perfect and flaw greater than some virtuous men. And also with expertise, like Indra is known to be a physician in some texts and Maya the asura is an engineer here. The cities are described as magnificant and beautiful, they were known to be 100 yojnas in length and breadth. One yojna is approximately 9 miles. Psycloud, in ancient times even 3 thousand years ago I have little idea of what and how people were, architects who dig only to expect to find a civilization of huts and stones, he/she is oblivious of what has happened in the past. There are countless facts that can prove something 'cool' has happened in the past. The Hindu texts speak of the speed of light (which is 4404 yojnas in a nimisha, one nimisha = 16/75 sec.) and also of facts like Bhima (a warrior) killing 900,000 people in 18 days (that is 50,000 people in 12 hours), make it impossible for the Mahabharata to be a war the way some picturize it, with horse chariots and ordinary arrows. Hey Psycloud, this is a religion section and this is about mythology. Next time, we could post about the Mahabharata in a section like Ancient Earth History. Coz Scott asked us to 'Get back to the topic of Religion', so next time I will be posting it there. Mark | ||
Future_cats Member Post Number: 17 Registered: 09-2006 |
“Religion is not what people think it is; it’s good in all the right places, but is stops one from considering all the wrong places; to be good and not see the wrong just prevents you enough from collecting mistakes and making corrections.” Future Cat Anthony J. Alagna | ||
Gaiaguysnet Member Post Number: 310 Registered: 03-2004 |
Dear Moderator, Since Anthony's sadly mistaken belief that "Religion is ... good in all the right places ..." is indeed the exact opposite to the truth that genuine seekers rightly expect to find here on this forum, may I respectfully ask that his above contribution be shifted to the Skeptics Corner where it actually belongs, so it's not confused with the truth by those similarly unfamiliar with it? Kanon 20:95 Und also lüget ihr und bestreitet ihr, dass da die Schrift des Wortes der Wahrheit zur Jetztzeit der Neuzeit ein andermal niedergesendet ist zu den Menschen der Erde, und wahrheitlich tuet ihr das darum, weil ihr seid in Gefangenschaft geschlagen durch eure falschen Lehren, die ihr da nennet Religionen. And therefore you lie and dispute that the text of the words of the truth in the current time, the new time, are sent down another time to the human of the Earth. And truly you do this because you are imprisoned through your false teaching that you name religion. (www.gaiaguys.net/OMintro.htm) Thanks, Dyson | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 185 Registered: 07-2004 |
Anthony, Have you spent any time reading what figu is all about. Your statement on religion is an awkward message if you have read what is posted and included in bulletins from Billy. Religion has to be the biggest disappointment man has ever unleashed. Our societies have been controlled by men in cloth for to long and the only benefit I can see is....nothing. It's destroying the planet. At age 7 I knew religion was poison and fought my parents attempts to indoctrinate me into the Catholic belief system. You won't find many in agreement here with your statement. a friend in america Shawn | ||
Alan Member Post Number: 66 Registered: 06-2006 |
Future_cats “Religion is not what people think it is; it’s good in all the right places” Rubbish! | ||
Vestri Member Post Number: 55 Registered: 02-2006 |
Future_cats: "Religion is not what people think it is; it’s good in all the right places" I agree with you, religion is not what people think it is! Religion - 666 http://www.gaiaguys.net/666.htm | ||
Hector Member Post Number: 116 Registered: 04-2006 |
I agree Anthony has to explain whether the sentence above is a quote or if it is his own speech.In the case it is his own speech, he is trying to poison our intellect.He has to make clear what his feelings and thoughts about religion are.Religion apologizers are not welcome here because figu fights/opposes ignorance & intellect slavery. While remaining under the influence of any religion you put a cloak around you which does not allow the entrance to logic, truth and knowledge while you suffer spiritual stagnation. My first question to Billy was if the efforts of the Hindi religion could be applauded.The answer was within every religion there are good things, but they are indistinguishable, so what you get within the whole package is 10% hidden and mixed truth and 90% plain lies, paranoia, falsification, intellect slavery, dominance and above all, lack of own personal responsability as a real human being.(You comply with God, therefore you are an example to others and fulfill the mission that has been commanded to you<== stupid and false). So Anthony we are eager to read you clarify and comment your sentence above so that nobody can say you come to this forum to sabotage the efforts of many people to free themselves from the chains of the many existent slavering religions. Remember, we all make mistakes, but unconciously.Religion leaders like the Pope make conscious mistakes, which cannot be labeled as mistakes but crimes and machinations.(Read Billy`s statement about Mother Theresa selling children). | ||
Tony Member Post Number: 96 Registered: 01-2006 |
Religion and Science Everything that the human race has done and thought is concerned with the satisfaction of felt needs and the assuagement of pain. One has to keep this constantly in mind if one wishes to understand spiritual movements and their development. Feeling and desire are the motive forces behind all human endeavour and human creation, in however exalted a guise the latter may present itself to us. Now what are the feelings and needs that have led men to religious thought and belief in the widest sense of the words? A little consideration will suffice to show us that the most varying emotions preside over the birth of religious thought and experience. With primitive man it is above all fear that evokes religious notions--fear of hunger, wild beasts, sickness, death. Since at this stage of existence understanding of causal connexions is usually poorly developed, the human mind creates for itself more or less analogous beings on whose wills and actions these fearful happenings depend. One's object now is to secure the favour of these beings by carrying out actions and offering sacrifices which, according to the tradition handed down from generation to generation, propitiate them or make them well disposed towards a mortal. I am speaking now of the religion of fear. This, though not created, is in an important degree stabilized by the formation of a special priestly caste which sets up as a mediator between the people and the beings they fear, and erects a hegemony on this basis. In many cases the leader or ruler whose position depends on other factors, or a privileged class, combines priestly functions with its secular authority in order to make the latter more secure; or the political rulers and the priestly caste make common cause in their own interests. The social feelings are another source of the crystallization of religion. Fathers and mothers and the leaders of larger human communities are mortal and fallible. The desire for guidance, love, and support prompts men to form the social or moral conception of God. This is the God of Providence who protects, disposes, rewards, and punishes, the God who, according to the width of the believer's outlook, loves and cherishes the life of the tribe or of the human race, or even life as such, the comforter in sorrow and unsatisfied longing, who preserves the souls of the dead. This is the social or moral conception of God. The Jewish scriptures admirably illustrate the development from the religion of fear to moral religion, which is continued in the New Testament. The religions of all civilized peoples, especially the peoples of the Orient, are primarily moral religions. The development from a religion of fear to moral religion is a great step in a nation's life. That primitive religions are based entirely on fear and the religions of civilized peoples purely on morality is a prejudice against which we must be on our guard. The truth is that they are all intermediate types, with this reservation, that on the higher levels of social life the religion of morality predominates. Common to all these types is the anthropomorphic character of their conception of God. Only individuals of exceptional endowments and exceptionally high-minded communities, as a general rule, get in any real sense beyond this level. But there is a third state of religious experience which belongs to all of them, even though it is rarely found in a pure form, and which I will call cosmic religious feeling. It is very difficult to explain this feeling to anyone who is entirely without it, especially as there is no anthropomorphic conception of God corresponding to it. The individual feels the nothingness of human desires and aims and the sublimity and marvellous order which reveal themselves both in nature and in the world of thought. He looks upon individual existence as a sort of prison and wants to experience the universe as a single significant whole. The beginnings of cosmic religious feeling already appear in earlier stages of development--e.g., in many of the Psalms of David and in some of the Prophets. Buddhism, as we have learnt from the wonderful writings of Schopenhauer especially, contains a much stronger element of it. The religious geniuses of all ages have been distinguished by this kind of religious feeling, which knows no dogma and no God conceived in man's image; so that there can be no Church whose central teachings are based on it. Hence it is precisely among the heretics of every age that we find men who were filled with the highest kind of religious feeling and were in many cases regarded by their contemporaries as Atheists, sometimes also as saints. Looked at in this light, men like Democritus, Francis of Assisi, and Spinoza are closely akin to one another. How can cosmic religious feeling be communicated from one person to another, if it can give rise to no definite notion of a God and no theology? In my view, it is the most important function of art and science to awaken this feeling and keep it alive in those who are capable of it. We thus arrive at a conception of the relation of science to religion very different from the usual one. When one views the matter historically one is inclined to look upon science and religion as irreconcilable antagonists, and for a very obvious reason. The man who is thoroughly convinced of the universal operation of the law of causation cannot for a moment entertain the idea of a being who interferes in the course of events--that is, if he takes the hypothesis of causality really seriously. He has no use for the religion of fear and equally little for social or moral religion. A God who rewards and punishes is inconceivable to him for the simple reason that a man's actions are determined by necessity, external and internal, so that in God's eyes he cannot be responsible, any more than an inanimate object is responsible for the motions it goes through. Hence science has been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man's ethical behaviour should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear and punishment and hope of reward after death. It is therefore easy to see why the Churches have always fought science and persecuted its devotees. On the other hand, I maintain that cosmic religious feeling is the strongest and noblest incitement to scientific research. Only those who realize the immense efforts and, above all, the devotion which pioneer work in theoretical science demands, can grasp the strength of the emotion out of which alone such work, remote as it is from the immediate realities of life, can issue. What a deep conviction of the rationality of the universe and what a yearning to understand, were it but a feeble reflection of the mind revealed in this world, Kepler and Newton must have had to enable them to spend years of solitary labour in disentangling the principles of celestial mechanics! Those whose acquaintance with scientific research is derived chiefly from its practical results easily develop a completely false notion of the mentality of the men who, surrounded by a sceptical world, have shown the way to those like-minded with themselves, scattered through the earth and the centuries. Only one who has devoted his life to similar ends can have a vivid realization of what has inspired these men and given them the strength to remain true to their purpose in spite of countless failures. It is cosmic religious feeling that gives a man strength of this sort. A contemporary has said, not unjustly, that in this materialistic age of ours the serious scientific workers are the only profoundly religious people. | ||
Tony Member Post Number: 97 Registered: 01-2006 |
Hi Scott, i put this here because its partly about religion, but feel free to put these three where ever you think is best suited. I thought I'd post this because it gives a extremely good insight into the mind of one of the greatest minds of the 20th century - Albert Einstein. I found his beliefs on the spiritual meaning of life to be extremely fascinating and deep. The scientific pyshical universe/realm appears NOT to be the only realm he could see into. I wondered how much of his deep insight (for his day?) into the spiritual side of life and universe could be attributed to his genius IQ and/or to him being an ET spirit. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The World As I See It, in its original form, includes essays by Einstein on relativity and cognate subjects. For reasons indicated above, these have been omitted in the present edition; the object of this repriot is simply to reveal to the general reader the human side of one of the most dominating figures of our day. THE WORLD AS I SEE IT Albert Einstein The Meaning of Life What is the meaning of human life, or of organic life altogether? To answer this question at all implies a religion. Is there any sense then, you ask, in putting it? I answer, the man who regards his own life and that of his fellow-creatures as meaningless is not merely unfortunate but almost disqualified for life. The World as I see it What an extraordinary situation is that of us mortals! Each of us is here for a brief sojourn; for what purpose he knows not, though he sometimes thinks he feels it. But from the point of view of daily life, without going deeper, we exist for our fellow-men--in the first place for those on whose smiles and welfare all our happiness depends, and next for all those unknown to us personally with whose destinies we are bound up by the tie of sympathy. A hundred times every day I remind myself that my inner and outer life depend on the labours of other men, living and dead, and that I must exert myself in order to give in the same measure as I have received and am still receiving. I am strongly drawn to the simple life and am often oppressed by the feeling that I am engrossing an unnecessary amount of the labour of my fellow-men. I regard class differences as contrary to justice and, in the last resort, based on force. I also consider that plain living is good for everybody, physically and mentally. In human freedom in the philosophical sense I am definitely a disbeliever. Everybody acts not only under external compulsion but also in accordance with inner necessity. Schopenhauer's saying, that "a man can do as he will, but not will as he will," has been an inspiration to me since my youth up, and a continual consolation and unfailing well-spring of patience in the face of the hardships of life, my own and others'. This feeling mercifully mitigates the sense of responsibility which so easily becomes paralysing, and it prevents us from taking ourselves and other people too seriously; it conduces to a view of life in which humour, above all, has its due place. To inquire after the meaning or object of one's own existence or of creation generally has always seemed to me absurd from an objective point of view. And yet everybody has certain ideals which determine the direction of his endeavours and his judgments. In this sense I have never looked upon ease and happiness as ends in themselves--such an ethical basis I call more proper for a herd of swine. The ideals which have lighted me on my way and time after time given me new courage to face life cheerfully, have been Truth, Goodness, and Beauty. Without the sense of fellowship with men of like mind, of preoccupation with the objective, the eternally unattainable in the field of art and scientific research, life would have seemed to me empty. The ordinary objects of human endeavour--property, outward success, luxury--have always seemed to me contemptible. My passionate sense of social justice and social responsibility has always contrasted oddly with my pronounced freedom from the need for direct contact with other human beings and human communities. I gang my own gait and have never belonged to my country, my home, my friends, or even my immediate family, with my whole heart; in the face of all these ties I have never lost an obstinate sense of detachment, of the need for solitude--a feeling which increases with the years. One is sharply conscious, yet without regret, of the limits to the possibility of mutual understanding and sympathy with one's fellow-creatures. Such a person no doubt loses something in the way of geniality and light-heartedness ; on the other hand, he is largely independent of the opinions, habits, and judgments of his fellows and avoids the temptation to take his stand on such insecure foundations. My political ideal is that of democracy. Let every man be respected as an individual and no man idolized. It is an irony of fate that I myself have been the recipient of excessive admiration and respect from my fellows through no fault, and no merit, of my own. The cause of this may well be the desire, unattainable for many, to understand the one or two ideas to which I have with my feeble powers attained through ceaseless struggle. I am quite aware that it is necessary for the success of any complex undertaking that one man should do the thinking and directing and in general bear the responsibility. But the led must not be compelled, they must be able to choose their leader. An autocratic system of coercion, in my opinion, soon degenerates. For force always attracts men of low morality, and I believe it to be an invariable rule that tyrants of genius are succeeded by scoundrels. For this reason I have always been passionately opposed to systems such as we see in Italy and Russia to-day. The thing that has brought discredit upon the prevailing form of democracy in Europe to-day is not to be laid to the door of the democratic idea as such, but to lack of stability on the part of the heads of governments and to the impersonal character of the electoral system. I believe that in this respect the United States of America have found the right way. They have a responsible President who is elected for a sufficiently long period and has sufficient powers to be really responsible. On the other hand, what I value in our political system is the more extensive provision that it makes for the individual in case of illness or need. The really valuable thing in the pageant of human life seems to me not the State but the creative, sentient individual, the personality; it alone creates the noble and the sublime, while the herd as such remains dull in thought and dull in feeling. This topic brings me to that worst outcrop of the herd nature, the military system, which I abhor. That a man can take pleasure in marching in formation to the strains of a band is enough to make me despise him. He has only been given his big brain by mistake; a backbone was all he needed. This plague-spot of civilization ought to be abolished with all possible speed. Heroism by order, senseless violence, and all the pestilent nonsense that does by the name of patriotism--how I hate them! War seems to me a mean, contemptible thing: I would rather be hacked in pieces than take part in such an abominable business. And yet so high, in spite of everything, is my opinion of the human race that I believe this bogey would have disappeared long ago, had the sound sense of the nations not been systematically corrupted by commercial and political interests acting through the schools and the Press. The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. He who knows it not and can no longer wonder, no longer feel amazement, is as good as dead, a snuffed-out candle. It was the experience of mystery--even if mixed with fear--that engendered religion. A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty, which are only accessible to our reason in their most elementary forms--it is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute the truly religious attitude; in this sense, and in this alone, I am a deeply religious man. I cannot conceive of a God who rewards and punishes his creatures, or has a will of the type of which we are conscious in ourselves. An individual who should survive his physical death is also beyond my comprehension, nor do I wish it otherwise; such notions are for the fears or absurd egoism of feeble souls. Enough for me the mystery of the eternity of life, and the inkling of the marvellous structure of reality, together with the single-hearted endeavour to comprehend a portion, be it never so tiny, of the reason that manifests itself in nature. | ||
Tony Member Post Number: 98 Registered: 01-2006 |
The Religiousness of Science You will hardly find one among the profounder sort of scientific minds without a peculiar religious feeling of his own. But it is different from the religion of the naive man. For the latter God is a being from whose care one hopes to benefit and whose punishment one fears; a sublimation of a feeling similar to that of a child for its father, a being to whom one stands to some extent in a personal relation, however deeply it may be tinged with awe. But the scientist is possessed by the sense of universal causation. The future, to him, is every whit as necessary and determined as the past. There is nothing divine about morality, it is a purely human affair. His religious feeling takes the form of a rapturous amazement at the harmony of natural law, which reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection. This feeling is the guiding principle of his life and work, in so far as he succeeds in keeping himself from the shackles of selfish desire. It is beyond question closely akin to that which has possessed the religious geniuses of all ages. The Plight of Science The German-speaking countries are menaced by a danger to which those in the know are in duty bound to call attention in the most emphatic terms. The economic stress which political events bring in their train does not hit everybody equally hard. Among the hardest hit are the institutions and individuals whose material existence depends directly on the State. To this category belong the scientific institutions and workers on whose work not merely the well-being of science but also the position occupied by Germany and Austria in the scale of culture very largely depends. To grasp the full gravity of the situation it is necessary to bear in mind the following consideration. In times of crisis people are generally blind to everything outside their immediate necessities. For work which is directly productive of material wealth they will pay. But science, if it is to flourish, must have no practical end in view. As a general rule, the knowledge and the methods which it creates only subserve practical ends indirectly and, in many cases, not till after the lapse of several generations. Neglect of science leads to a subsequent dearth of intellectual workers able, in virtue of their independent outlook and judgment, to blaze new trails for industry or adapt themselves to new situations. Where scientific enquiry is stunted the intellectual life of the nation dries up, which means the withering of many possibilities of future development. This is what we have to prevent. Now that the State has been weakened as a result of nonpolitical causes, it is up to the economically stronger members of the community to come to the rescue directly, and prevent the decay of scientific life. Far-sighted men with a clear understanding of the situation have set up institutions by which scientific work of every sort is to be kept going in Germany and Austria. Help to make these efforts a real success. In my teaching work I see with admiration that economic troubles have not yet succeeded in stifling the will and the enthusiasm for scientific research. Far from it! Indeed, it looks as if our disasters had actually quickened the devotion to non-material goods. Everywhere people are working with burning enthusiasm in the most difficult circumstances. See to it that the will-power and the talents of the youth of to-day do not perish to the grievous hurt of the community as a whole. | ||
Scott Moderator Post Number: 953 Registered: 12-1999 |
Hi Tony, Please try not to paraphrase such long posts...I find people tend not to really read something this long, unless they are completely involved somehow with the subject matter. Thanks Scott | ||
Psycloud Member Post Number: 60 Registered: 06-2006 |
Tony As a Scientist myself I do not agree that every scientist is religious, their are many who are rather religious, and biased because of it, however there are others who are not at all religious; the scientific community varies just as greatly as the general public, but the scientists who are ignorant are the ones who only absorb the knowledge and do not use it because their thoughts are scrambled. I do agree however that there are in different countries different levels of brain-drain because of lack of jobs and Universities in one country or another especially in smaller counties, Europe is turning around in that sense, because so much is being done in those German-speaking countries right now. This event is starting to attract attention into the German language because a lot of good science is being published (in the German language) that are break-throughs, and what is sad is that the majority of the scientific community isn't even aware of the it's existence, but a lot of it has to do with them not knowing the language. And I do have to add, most scientists are pretty poor, and if they have money it is only because they publish books on their findings and make a large profit off of it, otherwise it feels like your still living in college, especially if you have got major debt from loans because of your masters and Ph.D degrees. I am truthful to the extend at which I know the truth. | ||
Kiril Member Post Number: 143 Registered: 12-2005 |
Hi Psycloud, Great to hear there is another scientist on these board, do you mind if I ask what is your area of expertise? For me its biophysics(still have about 1 year of study left). Regards, Kiril | ||
Psycloud Member Post Number: 65 Registered: 06-2006 |
I'm actually trying to decide what area I want to go into, I'm not sure if I am going to go back and get a masters degree yet. I'm am just a general Physicist for the time being. I am truthful to the extend at which I know the truth. | ||
Indi Member Post Number: 22 Registered: 06-2006 |
I was just reading bits and pieces about Jmmanuel, and ended up on a search through the net re the name Jesus vs Jmmanuel. I found some interesting discussion about it, but the one that stood out can be found at the following link: http://www.swedenborg.org/odb/sermon_detail.cfm?sermonID=3629 It is the hypothesis on the use of different names that was of interest to me. Also, whilst reading 'The Essence of the notes' in the section on Jmmanuel, from the Contact reports from Asket, (whilst Eduard is having a conversation with him) I came across a paragraph that mentioned that ....."He (referring to Jmmanuel) will live as a human being, perform his mission, and suffer his fate of bodily death after 83 years." I seem to recall that Jmmanuel was reported as living until around the age of 110yrs in India. I do not have the original Contact notes, only this 'Essence' info provided by Osborn, so was wondering if anyone can verify in those early on notes, about the '83 yrs'? Robyn | ||
Scott Moderator Post Number: 977 Registered: 12-1999 |
Hi Robyn, If I understand what you stated, according to the Talmud, Jmmanuel lived 110-115 years. If you add 83 plus 32 which is the year Eduard and Asket visited with Jmmanuel you come up with 115 years? Regards Scott | ||
Hector Member Post Number: 142 Registered: 04-2006 |
The falsifiers of the Bible forgot to change Jesaja )Isaiah testimony, in order to complete their manipulation of Jmmanuel`s name.There we have the proof that Jesus never existed.Isaiah was also a truth announcer/prophet. The 83 years will have to do with using wrong dates and wrong calendars.Besides for a historician it is not advisable to tell that somebody 2 milennia ago lived 114 years ,because it is not too credible. Earth human does not want to know the truth, (And even less if the truth does not "sell"!) |
