| Author | Message | ||
    Thomas Hall |
In regards to power of the spirit, Jmmanuel said that anything is possible for someone if they use the power of their spirit and have confidence/faith (not blind faith,but faith in the form of knowing that the spirit can accomplish anything with knowledge). My question has 2 parts: 1-How does the fine matter of the spirit affect the coarse matter of the physical world when "miraculous" things occur, such as those Jmmanuel performed? (Even a brief synopsis would be greatly appreciated!!) and 2-Why is it that children normally excel in "paranormal" feats, such as bending metal mentally, when compared to most adults? Thank you very much for any info. | ||
Phil McAiney |
Hello Tom: Good questions: firstly, Jmmanuel did not say it was important to have "faith". This is what religion would have you believe as this is a key word that has been intentionally mistranslated from Jmmanuel's original teachings by them. We all know the story about the Roman centurion who comes to Jmmanuel (p.57) and asks him to heal the centurion's servant who is lying ill at the Roman soldier's house, and who tells Jmmanuel it is not necessary for Jmmanuel to physically come to the house but "just to say the word and my servant will be healed." This well-told tale in the Christian religion has Jmmanuel (altered to "Jesus" about 50 years after the crucifixion) saying he has "not found such faith in all Israel". But when you read the German text, side-by-side with the English in the Talmud Jmmanuel, the word "faith" is never mentioned. Instead, we find the word "trust" or "confidence" used in English and "Vertrauen" in the German. Trying to draw up "faith" from one's spirit will undoubtedly result in disappointment because faith has nothing to do with Creation or the spirit. "Faith" is the creation of an ilusion and believing in something that doesn't exist. This is why religions want you to have "faith" in God. Therefore, if the spirit's power is tapped by one who knows how and is able to do so, that power is superior to physical power as spirit is the origin of physicality. As Semjase said, an idea is the embodiment of Matter. One creates the other. The miracles Jmmanuel performed had a basis in logic. The people at the time were 99% illiterate. It did no good to pass out writings to them of the spiritual teachings as they couldn't read anyway. The only way to impress their minds with the power of the teachings was to do physical acts of wonder that would leave a lasting impression. In today's time, most people are able to read so the teachings are being written down. The lessons also have more durability that way as they can be referred to in their original, written form rather than being passed on verbally by word-of-mouth and being subjected to ever-increasing alterations. As to why children seem capable of paranormal feats when adults do not, their minds are still flexible and up to 2 years they can still get past-life flashbacks as their crown chakra has not closed yet, the "soft spot" on top of their heads one can feel on a baby. In time, they lose this channel and start to become a "solid" member of society, in more ways than one... Moderator - A continuation of Mr. McAiney's comments is now posted in "Chapter 16." | ||
Inger Wikstrom |
Hello Forum, In the Talmud Jmmanuel preface the book JEZIHRA is mentioned. What kind of book is this and what is it about? Does anyone know? Kind regards, Inger | ||
Jani Metso and Janette Poikajärvi |
Hello, What little I know of the "Book Jezihra", is that it was already very early removed from the Bible, or preferably from the original writings from which the Bible was made up. Then there's that another book, which carries a similar title, named "Jezira" or the "Book Jezira". It is in no connection with the Bible, however. It concerns itself around a compilation of 40 charm texts in German, Latin and Hebrew language, which contains magically interpreted religious pieces. The book has existed since the center of 19th century and if I get this right, it contained information/speculation from the 16th-18th century and from the Kabbalistic sources from the 13th century. Those charm texts can be traced up to Hebrew and Egyptian sources. I personally don't know anything more about these books, so if anyone does, please share your information, thank you. If here's mistakes, please correct me. Salome, Jani | ||
Lonnie Morton |
Hello all, As much as I appreciate this study area on the Talmud, so far most of the participants have only given their personal opinions. What we need is some authoritative information in this section. Mr. Deardorff's work seems to be right on. But, 'Celestial teachings' doesn't cover everything in the Talmud. It is likely that only Billy himself knows the correct meaning of all these verses. As to whether or not he will write a book explaining the Talmud more fully, I don't know, but there seems to be a need for it here. If this doesn't come about, then it will be up to us in using a complete compilation of background knowledge of everything else. Either that or could it be that it's not important for us to delve into some things? Must we expound on all these verses entirely on our own? Since the Talmud is considered one of if not the most important writing in the history of mankind on this Earth, should not a means be made available to us to get the correct understanding so we can be sure without all this quessing? | ||
mark Campbell |
Lonnie has a good point here.I have often thought that the lost part of the Talmud Jmmanuel might be retrievable , if Billy went back in time and asked for it.The Arahat Athersata or Petale Sphere might be able to complete the missing part. There are obviously good reasons why this hasn't happened . I don't think I'm the first to have this idea. There is an enormous amount of development in Billy's writings , and the messages from the Petale , that it must be unnecessary to do that. Jmmanuel did tell Billy that he(Billy) was more advanced than himself.It only makes sense , that he would advance with each incarnation.If we pay more attention to what is being taught today by Billy, and not be so hung up on the old teaching , as beautiful as it is ,then I think we'll find our answers.Maybe this is the underlying message that needs to be brought to the front. | ||
Andrew C. Cossette |
Hi Lonnie and Mark, I am sort of shocked at your post Lonnie. This Talmud Study Area is one-of-a-kind and unique to the entire planet Earth -- a discussion and brainstorming area that people can use to come to some understanding of this famous text. Even today, the Core Group of 49 FIGU is just now being introduced to the meaning behind the Talmud, as Billy takes them step by step through all of the verses. This is happening now in the year 2000(!). It can also be said here that this "old teaching" is not old at all. Anyone who reads OM, Arahat Athersata, PETALE/Dekalog, or the Contact Reports will plainly see that Jmmanuel's words are just like theirs, through and through. His words of wisdom are replicated throughout all of the prophets; said only in a different way for the population of their time. I will kindly mention to all that reading the Talmud Jmmanuel is just like reading the above-mentioned books at their core meaning. It would take a lifetime to really read the Talmud -- understanding, comprehending and digesting the truth between the lines. People want translations, over and over they gripe that there is not enough English material. Yet, most readers of the Talmud Jmmanuel read it once, twice, maybe ten times, and STILL uncover things they never realized on their second read. A Core Group member (with the group for years) commented to me recently that he was astounded at the 'real' meanings behind some of the verses (taken for granted) as the explanations from Billy came to light. We are here in this Internet forum throwing around ideas regarding this important text. This is an amazing feat to pull off in today's society. A truly unique situation that, apparently, some cannot see. In my opinion, it is much more fun to hear other's ideas, meanings and opinions behind the verses in the Talmud, especially coming from Mr. Deardorff (who I am thrilled to have involved in this), along with other Passive Members and just plain-old visitors to this forum who have read the book. Sitting around a cyberspace campfire and brainstorming the Talmud is an absolute, technological miracle... Furthermore, to think that the Core Group is just now being brought through the Talmud page by page, shows that a person who reads the Talmud 50 times over, is still far from understanding the deeper meaning behind Jmmanuel's parables and explanations. I think that people who might want to complain about this kind of thing are the indolent ones -- the ones who want hard, cold answers to everything right now, right away, gimme gimme, without lifting a brain cell to figure it out on their own. Discussing these kinds of subjects and teachings used to get you burned and quartered. Considering luck, this discussion area is a 'miracle'. Regards, Andrew | ||
Lonnie Morton |
Hi Andrew, Thank you for your response and please don't misunderstand me, this is exactly what I wanted to hear. And if I gave the impression of factiousness I apologize (I was half awake when I posted above). Perhaps these posts are the stimulus we need now to really get at the "meat" of the material. My main concern is gleening an accuate understanding of these important texts if it is not already in existance, which I thought it was. What sort of bothers me is each of us being stuck out alone in the back yard with a pick and shovel so to speak when we could all be working on this together using all kinds of tools with Billy's oversight (just a suggestion). Certainly this is possible, and I'm confident we can continue to make progress. But remember what happened in the first century! Kind regards, Lonnie | ||
Mark Campbell |
Hi Andrew; I don't consider for a moment that someone's going to "give" me any understandings about the Talmud.If someone gives an insight about it on the forum, and you learn something new without having made the observation by your own effort, then this is almost like being given something.My comment was to actually use more effort in reading the deeper material in German like the OM( and learning the language ), and maybe to understand the Talmud better after that.I guess it looked like we shouldn't read the Talmud, but no, that's not what I meant at all.It helps me to know that it's just now being introduced to the core group.It puts it in perspective for the rest of us.My point was about learning the further teachings to open some insights into the Talmud.I appreciate your comments - Mark Moderator: An. C. - Hi Mark, Yes, I agree. It helped me to understand a lot knowing that the Core Group was just now going through it as well. This is why I mentioned it in a public environment. It is such a pleasure to have this area open, that I feel many don't really know how unique it is. Further, I was going to start the exact same topic in the Passive Member's area for private viewers/members only, but after thinking about it, Jim D. and I realized it in the public area. Very cool. Regards, Andrew PS - My post was not directed at anyone in particular (if you read it carefully), only to those who don't quite understand what a chore this has been, and how fortunate it is to have such a discussion area available in today's world. Keeping in mind that the FIGU Web site, not to mention this very Discussion Forum, are banned in many countries (e.g. Iraq, etc.), puts things into perspective a little, and shows how lucky the readers really are. :) | ||
Jim Deardorff |
Going back to Mark Campbell's post of Sept. 25th, I think we do need to keep in mind that not everything in the TJ need be absolutely correct or represent absolute truth. Here I'm not thinking about possible problems in its translation, but in Jmmanuel's knowledge itself. In Contact Report #1, Meier was told by Semjase how the TJ was the most important book (Earth book) ever to be written. However she did mention that "some speculations are in it". (This is from the crude English translation -- perhaps someone on this forum can give a better translation from the German.) Also, Jmmanuel himself said, in TJ 19:14-15 (1996E), that being human like the rest of us, he has to seek and perceive. That implies that he didn't know everything, and could have been mistaken in some things. Hence I think Mark's advice is good, that we need to learn spirituality from Meier and any other modern sources that we perceive as true, as well as from the TJ. | ||
Inger Wikstrom |
Hi all, In the letter among the last pages in TJ it is mentioned that the original writings of the TJ was desrtoyed in a fire in Lebanon. My question is: Were all the original writings destroyed or are there any remains left e.g. form the writings that became the now existing version of the TJ? Regards, Inger | ||
Andrew C. Cossette |
Hello Inger, I hope you are well. No, there are no original writings in existence anymore. Regards, Andrew | ||
Jim Deardorff |
Inger -- There's a slim possibility that a transcription of the TJ, in Aramaic, may emerge some day, or parts of one. This is because in order that the Gospel of Matthew have been based upon the TJ, a transcription of the TJ must have been made, during the decades that Judas was writing the TJ in India, and this transcription must have been taken to the Palestinian area along with the original scrolls, which were buried in Joseph of Arimathea's tomb. The transcription then is what the Gospel of Matthew was based on. Otherwise, the Gospel of Matthew wouldn't follow along the TJ's course of events. So the thought is, since one transcription of the original TJ scrolls had been made, perhaps a 2nd or 3rd transcription was also made. Is it not possible that such a transcription could some day come to light, perhaps in northern India or Srinagar, even assuming that the one which the writer of Matthew got hold of in the Middle East was later destroyed? But I'm not holding my breath! | ||
Inger Wikstrom |
Hi all, Thanks for your input. Interesting reading. If these copies comes out into the light, maybe they'll help turning the religions upside-down even faster. Had Jmmanuel the title of an JHWH or ELO-JHWH? Regards, Inger | ||
Andrew C. Cossette |
Hello Inger, No, the man called "Jmmanuel" did not have the title of JSCHWJSCH. As is the case today, there is a "cap" that is (purposely) put into effect. I assume that this would be to stop any craziness that could occur within a prophet's consciousness. Also keep in mind that there is a difference between the spiritual leader living on a planet, and the JSCHWJSCH residing over a planet. Kind regards, Andrew | ||
Jim Deardorff |
Hello Scott, Our discussion got out past TJ 16 a while ago, so I'm continuing it here. You had written, "You mentioned that the contact notes had instances of misinformation to cause people to think or ponder things for themselves. I understand the use of parables as used by Jmmanual for the passing on of wisdom by forcing a person to think about a given story. Do you find this the same thing as you indicated in the contact notes? I thought one of the things in this overall mission was to clear up a lot of understandings and false teachings and to create a more clearer understanding of what is true or not true. I feel this is important especially during these times the need for truth and clear sight is needed." Yes, this is my conclusion from the Contact Reports, that we must judge for ourselves whether anything or everything Billy was told was true or not, so that we won't just accept it all as true without thinking. (Doing the latter is, I think, tantamount to being in a cult.) This is a different means of making us think for ourselves than trying to interpret parables, as one first has to recognize a statement or story as conflicting with human findings that one trusts, or as being contradictory, before one can suspect it may not be true. I think it motivates us to look harder and more skeptically, though open-mindedly, at spiritual information revealed in our own human studies and writings, to thus obtain a clearer understanding of what is spiritually true or untrue. I've found the studies and findings of Dr. William J. Baldwin to be especially illuminating on the topic of spirit possession and release. Do you happen to recall the story that made the news a few years back of the woman who had an organ transplant (heart or liver, I've forgotten) and soon afterwards developed peculiar tastes she had never had before? (As I recall, one of them was for some type of fast-food, another was to ride a motorcycle.) She soon learned, from the organ donor's relatives, that the deceased organ donor had had those very same tastes. In looking over an article that Baldwin wrote some years before this incident, I see he had come across the phenomenon before. He wrote, in 1990, in the Proceedings of the First International Conference on New Science, in Fort Collins, Colorado, that "in the case of an organ transplant, the spirit of the organ donor can follow the transplanted organ into the new body." This was just one of many findings from his having engaged in spirit releasement therapy (from possessed persons) for many years. It's an example where any hypothesis that the woman just happened to dream up a peculiar alter-ego within her consciousness and only after her organ-transplant operation, which just happened to have the peculiar tastes of the deceased organ donor, would be very far-fetched indeed. So if one gives some credit to Earth's own sincere researchers, one sees that spirit attachment and release makes very good sense as being just that, and the incident of TJ 8:29f would seem to mean just what it says. The attached spirits were released from the two possessed men and entered the pigs. | ||
Ardie Fox |
In earlier discussions we have talked about fluidal forces and organ transplants. This fluidal force is some type of "energy?" that connects us to the collective consciousness block by way of the remains of our bodies from our previous lifetimes. By accepting donor organs, we are mixing our fluidal forces with that of another person, which causes problems. I have also heard the story of this same woman. I believe the fast food you were thinking about was "chicken nuggets". Not sure though. Anyway, it would appear that she may be "remembering" memories belonging to the donor, not neccessarily being possessed by his spirit. The topic of fluidal forces is a fascinating one. | ||
Anthony Alagna |
Hello Ardie, I think you are right on the money with your fluidal forces suggestion. Remember Andrew also said that burial, instead of cremation, is essential to the dissipation of these forces to the Akashic Records. And I think we are talking about consciousness that lingers around (attracted to) the associated genetic material of an organ or decaying corpse, instead of their spirits. I remember seeing a documentary that was trying to undercover the secrets of consciousness on the Discovery channel or something. In one segment there was an experiment where they tested the electrical impulses of a moving finger with the corresponding connections in the brain. They discovered that the first impulse in the movement of a person's finger is in the finger, and not in the brain. This suggested that consciousness are fields surrounding the body and not just something in your head. Hey maybe the two possessed people in Chapter 8 stole the cloths off a couple of dead people (dead skin cells and all), and attracted the former "evil" consciousness blocks of their victims? hahahaha Best regards, Anthony | ||
Jean Pierre Lagasse |
Hi all, The "Fluidic force energies" from the donated organ can (as Ardie says) account for the effects of these transplants. These so-called "spirit release therapies" may be effective in some manner, but the word definitions for some of the components of this phenomena are not correct by Plejaran teachings. The Plejaran comments on our state of technology/understandings should be viewed as a gift, and incorporated logically into our contemplations, rather than being treated as a “Correct/Not correct” type of thing… While our "Earth Researchers" are indeed "onto something", they should stay open-minded as to exactly what they are investigating. Until we have the instrumentation to measure the various components of this phenomena, it is anybody's guess as to what this phenomena REALLY is, whether one is a doctor, researcher, "new-ager" or whatever. Any hard and fast (authoritative) definitions (before we can technologically measure all this), can be said to be religious or fanatical or ?? It is VERY important that our earth researchers continue on their investigations. It is also VERY important that they/we (especially WE) do not contribute to any “New Religions”, or new forms of fanaticism. By this I do agree with Jim, in that the Meier Material should not be taken “as gospel”, but by this I also mean that the “New-Age” definitions (whether by doctors/researchers/scientists) should be treated the same way. Best Regards, JPLagasse | ||
Michael Horn |
Rather than spirits, i.e. the human spirit, couldn't this be more along the lines of fluidal forces, or energy patterns, impulses, etc. that carry the imprint of the personality, which is never the same incarnation to incarnation? Since, as I understand it, it isn't the spirit that carries the attributes of the personality, the behaviors, tastes, etc. might not the problem be in the terminology? | ||
Jim Deardorff |
Michael, Past-life research indicates that one's most recent life's personality stays with the spirit until after it has departed from the "earth plane" and gone to the light. After that, it becomes one more past-life memory, accompanied by memories of associated emotions and personalities that the spirit retains access to. This is a simpler hypothesis than postulating a separate spiritual entity called "fluidal forces." The person who has read up on a lot of cases of past-life hypno-regression will find that in a good number of them, when the past life is being re-lived under trance and tells of some of his/her past-life experiences, the speech comes out having the accent of the country he/she lived in. Occasionally it comes out totally in the foreign tongue of the country where the past-life had lived. I think this indicates that personalities stay within the memories of the spirit, since they are a part of the past lives' complete sets of memories. In that case they would not seem to leak away from the dead body as "fluidal forces." Yet, of course, each new life starts out without conscious memories of its past lives and their personalities (except in rare cases). These ideas can be entertained if one allows that some of the Plejaren teachings Meier received were purposely supplied to us in incorrect form, for the reason I've given previously. Another reason they would do this, is so that when disinformation is detected in their teachings, the superficial investigator will blame Meier for having invented it all, since surely ETs wouldn't lie! In that manner, Meier is kept in an easily debunkable state, and thus the whole UFO coverup will not prematurely come unraveled due to the Pls having incautiously supplied him with too many photographic opportunities and truthful teachings. Instead, the coverup remains intact, and those for whom the ET presence and truth about spirituality would be totally unacceptable are not forced to believe any of it. I'm sure the Pls knew what they were doing in respecting the free will of hundreds of millions of people, however misguided they may be. | ||
Scott Baxter |
Hello Jim, Just recapping a little bit of what you said, "Past-life research indicates that one's most recent life's personality stays with the spirit until after it has departed from the "earth plane" and gone to the light. After that, it becomes one more past-life memory, accompanied by memories of associated emotions and personalities that the spirit retains access to." How is it known that the most recent past life experience stays with the spirit until it has left the earth plane? You cited that through hypnosis past lives can be accessed, but how do we know which past life falls in which order?, in other words how is it known that the life being relived is the most recent life? Yes I agree dialects and possible memories of certain geographical locations may arise to the conscious mind during hypnosis, but how do we really know what we are uncovering? To me I think the jury is still out too lunch, somewhat until we have more knowledge of the subject. I think in some instances we are being presented with spiritual knowledge which we really have no way of proving or disproving. Weather this is good or not again I think time will tell in some instances. For instance, earlier in the forum the subject of auras was bought up. It was brought forth that their are very few people on the planet that are capable of seeing aruas. Do auras exist, for the people that do see them yes they do, but for the rest of humanity again its knowledge that we have no way of proving or disproving their existance. For the ones that do see them what do they have to gain, by deceiving those that dont? I understand the part about the movie footage and the flight movements being made to look a bit hoaxy, in order create controversy, but too me this would lead to a more closer search to what Billy's case was about, which would eventually lead to the spiritual teachings, which in part it has done for those that are interested in pursuing this subject deeper. Salome Scott | ||
Anthony Alagna |
Hello Jim, I'm amazed that you are so skeptical about the possibility of fluidal forces being a part of this Chapter 8 discussion about the healing of the two possessed people. I think Andrew was crystal clear a few days ago when he supplied us with the Creational law of "one spirit to a body," and the connection of consciousness to possessions. I've noticed in some of your posting that you suggest that the Pleiadians have deliberately supplied Mr. Meier with false information in some cases. In your words above, "These ideas can be entertained if one allows that some of the Plejaren teachings Meier received were purposely supplied to us in incorrect form..." If I may ask, could you please give us some more examples to support this theory? Certainly, no one is perfect and even the Pleiadians make mistakes too, but I do not think Billy, nor his extraterrestrial contactors, have ever intentionally supplied false information. I think a lot of misinterpretation and looking at things from a non-Creational point of view (that is, not accepting and recognizing Creation in the first place), is all that is holding people back from seeing the truth within the truth that permeates from the TJ as well as the rest of the FIGU material. I agree with Andrew a few posting ago where he talks about the idea that one can thoroughly read the TJ and never see a bit of the contact notes nor any of Billy's books and still be able to realize the basic principles of what it means to be spiritual -- this book may be very compact, but very, very, very precise. I think the big thing so-called UFO experts fail to see is that Billy Meier is not some hapless middle man for the "all powerful" ETs, but a scholar in all the fields of the contact information. As the leading expert on the planet regarding consciousness-related (spiritual) understanding and application, I would think that together with the support of the FIGU, Mr. Meier would be very capable of seeing "a fast one" coming from the space aliens. So then, you must be suggesting that Mr. Meier and the FIGU are also intentionally supplying false information? I certainly respect you as a FIGU researcher and author, and by no means want to challenge your authority without just cause. But I think this theory about the Pleiadians supplying Billy with false information is a sad, "old school" approach to rationalizing this overwhelmingly complex case; and has been used for years by researchers and investigators in this outdated field of Ufology. Sincerely, Anthony Alagna | ||
Michael Horn |
Dear Jim, Interesting point of view, thanks, I'll read it a number of times and ponder. Also, regarding past-life regression, couldn't the person be tapping into the Akashic record of their presumed past life? I know some past lives have been validated through follow up research and some people, like the Tibetan tulku's, seem to have some continuity and/or conscious awareness of past lives. I also don't know of what presumed value it would be for the Plejarans to deliberately disinform in this area as it is one in which we seem to still be far from proving/disproving. I won't attempt to second guess, as I do agree with the premise that there has been deliberate disinformation , I just find this a strange area in which it should occur. Then again, what's a better area? | ||
Scott Baxter |
Hello One other thing, I find it hard to imagine that the Plejarens would go to all of this trouble and time (thousands of years) to bring forth misinformation. I cant imagine them calculating out what they will tell as truth and what they will distort to throw us off the track. It seems one of the things that was important to them was to convey the correct meaning and information of the knowledge they conveyed to us. This can be also illustrated by the importance placed upon getting the correct translations from German to English or any other language. Scott | ||
Norm |
Jim, has a point, if the Plejaranswanted us all to believe with out question, what better way than to land on the "White House Lawn". I think the Plejarans are telling us alot of things and others times only part of the story. Sorry, but thats my opinion. There are many times while reading the Wendell Stevens version of the Contact Notes that part of the information given to Billy was censored by the Plejarans. So they do keep secrets. | ||
Scott Baxter |
Hello Yes, the analogy of the Plejarens landing on the white house lawn has been used many times. I think maybe yes, they dont need to prove to us anything, but also we are not ready in many instances to accept the fact that they really exist. I think a lot more of us now are open to the idea, but still the majority of the world is still somewhat living in the dark ages. I also thought of something, Jim in his opinions of misinformation has in itself stirred up discussion here. So the idea in itself of either not telling the whole story, or saying something contrary does stir up controversy. Scott | ||
Jim Deardorff |
Hello Scott, I'll try to answer you first, in the order I see the "controversial" responses occur. You wrote, "How is it known that the most recent past life experience stays with the spirit until it has left the earth plane?" It was past-life personality we were discussing here. The past-life experiences naturally do stay within the spirit's memories, otherwise Jmmanuel couldn't speak of true prophets being able to remember their various past lives (TJ 23:24). And hypno-therapists wouldn't be able to regress their patients into past lives. From NDEs we know that the departed spirit that will return (and change a brief clinical death back into life) retains its feelings and responsibilities toward loved ones, and can therefore be persuaded to return to the body. I think this means it has still retained its personality at this point. And from the fact that the more qualified researchers consider "ghosts" to be departed spirits that didn't go to the light, and from many ghost stories you've heard, one realizes that the ignorance and compulsions of their previous life's personality are still with them. They may not even know they're dead, or they're afraid to go to the light because of the earthly religion they had been involved in, thinking they would be going to hell instead, or they have a compulsion to try to finish some task and so just roam the particular area of their uncompleted task, or they have an addiction for some drug and so attach to a living person's spirit in hopes of getting the drug, etc. So from what I've gleaned, only after going to the light is the previous life's personality shed into a memory that can no longer control you. You also queried, "You cited that through hypnosis past lives can be accessed, but how do we know which past life falls in which order?, in other words how is it known that the life being relived is the most recent life?" With the childhood cases of the reincarnation type, explored by Prof. Stevenson and others, the past life has been identified beyond doubt in some 1500 cases, and they were always the most recent past life. If it had been the one before that, or even earlier, verification would have been practically impossible except perhaps in just a few cases. In the case of adults undergoing hypno-regression, one has to try to figure out for each past life uncovered when it occurred, or in what century. This is often indeed possible through the clothes they wore, whether cars or horses were used for conveyance, etc. Sometimes, however, the patient states the year or century, without in any other way appearing to have invented any of it; that's taken to be just another past-life memory. Anthony, I'm keeping open the possibility that "fluidal forces" exist, but since we don't know anything about them, so far for me they're just a phrase that supposedly accounts for all the findings of past-life researchers. I think what Andrew wrote, "one spirit to a body" is correct, in that each body has just one spirit that is innately associated with it, such that when that spirit departs, the body dies. (Well, I guess there's always the exception -- the "walk-ins.") But I would not interpret that to mean that other spirits, which did not go to the light, cannot attach to the body's true spirit, leading to possession. You wrote, "In your words above, 'These ideas can be entertained if one allows that some of the Plejaren teachings Meier received were purposely supplied to us in incorrect form...' If I may ask, could you please give us some more examples to support this theory?" First, I would say that I do think this was done less within the spiritual teachings than within other teachings. Although I should not, perhaps, dwell on this within the TJ forum, the concept that Semjase expressed to Meier in a couple of instances, of one planetary or galactic object hauling another one all around behind it in space, through gravitational interaction, are astronomical examples. It could only do this IF the massive body had captured the smaller body in an orbit around it; in that case the smaller body would go along with the massive one, but continue to orbit it. But even the IF is a big one, as speeds of both bodies, and locations, would have to be matched just right in the first place, just to get it into orbit. Another example would be the statement, or at least the very strong implication, that all crop-circle formations were hoaxed; or that almost all were hoaxed. (But that could lead to further long discussions outside this forum). Or another could be that Meier was first told that the Pleiadians were from a particular planet within the Pleiades; much later that the location was some 70 (?) light years beyond the Pleiades (though in a time-shifted domain). Or when Meier was told that high speed can kill you, whereas our astronauts, who have undegone far higher speeds than other earthlings, haven't shown any effects of this. You also wrote: "So then, you must be suggesting that Mr. Meier and the FIGU are also intentionally supplying false information?" That's an interesting question; I've often pondered on it. Certainly FIGU isn't intentionally supplying false information, but is Meier? I tend to think not, that he can't conceive that the Pl's would find it more ethical to incorporate disinformation into what they tell him, than to never lie to him (though he realizes they've often had to withhold information, and so has he). He's been shown so many truths by them, that he's unlikely, I think, to conceive that they would feed him some mistruths to pass onto the word's population in order to prevent world chaos (premature ending of the UFO coverup, Pl's being worshipped as gods & goddesses again, etc.). But has Meier, in one of the contacts purposely not recorded in the Contact Reports, had all this explained to him, and agreed to go along with it? I don't know. | ||
Jim Deardorff |
One last point with Anthony, who also wrote, "But I think this theory about the Pleiadians supplying Billy with false information is a sad, 'old school' approach to rationalizing this overwhelmingly complex case; and has been used for years by researchers and investigators in this outdated field of Ufology." I think you'll find that in every case, when ufologists read something on the Meier "case" that doesn't make sense to them, they don't even consider whether or not it's the Pleiadians who caused it, but instead immediately assume it didn't make sense because Meier made it up. And of course, they also don't wonder if it doesn't make sense because of mankind's very limited knowledge. Michael, You wrote, "Also, regarding past-life regression, couldn't the person be tapping into the Akashic record of their presumed past life?" Do we know enough about the Akashic Records to be able to answer that? During past-life regression, the patient usually sees everything through his own eyes of that past life; he identifies it with him/herself; he may experience the emotions that had occurred at the time. Similarly with young children who have had flashbacks of the most recent past life. If the Akashic Records behave in the same way, then there would seem to be no way to distinguish between reincarnation and past lives versus the Akashic Records, regarding the reincarnation phenomenon. However, to get back to the TJ, Jmmanuel taught that we are born again into new lives, over and over, which supports the reality of reincarnation, and the possibility of being able to recall some of one's past lives, either through hypno-regression, or through being very highly spiritually evolved. And you wrote, "I also don't know of what presumed value it would be for the Plejarans to deliberately disinform in this area as it is one in which we seem to still be far from proving/disproving." Good point. But if they didn't do it in this area, too, the Pl's could still end up as gods & goddesses regarding spiritual matters, which could lead to their being placed at the top of a new religion or cult, in which everything they had to say about spirituality was accepted without question. The Pl's have told Meier that our societies have to learn things the hard way, through our own research and investigation, and they are not free to try to make us leap way ahead by teaching us things that our future science, for example, would learn for itself. It makes sense to me that this would apply to learning things about spirituality, too. Scott, you wrote, "I find it hard to imagine that the Plejarens would go to all of this trouble and time (thousands of years) to bring forth misinformation. I cant imagine them calculating out what they will tell as truth and what they will distort to throw us off the track." What I'd appreciate is any comments you may have on the reasons I supplied why it would be of upmost importance to the Pl's not to supply only truths to us via Meier. Do you think it would have been OK for the Pl's NOT to supply potential debunkers with ammunition with which to debunk Meier, if their failure to do so would have caused the UFO coverup to become exposed back in 1977? Do you think the Pl's actually want their every word accepted as truth, with Earthlings wistfully longing for their return so that they can be venerated as the ultimate source of information, spiritual or otherwise? | ||
Ardie Fox |
Hello Jim, I think it is possible that, in many cases, "researchers" have jumped to the wrong conclusion to explain certain events. If they are unaware of Fluidal Forces, consciousness traveling, Akashic Records, etc, then it would be natural for them to attribute these happenings to our spirit alone. NDE stands for NEAR death experience, so I think that saying the spirit has left and then decided to come back would be inaccurate. According to our current technology, we may appear to be dead, but in actuality the person would not really have died and the spirit never left the body. I understand that the spirit may remain with a body for several hours after the body is clinically dead. I think that once the spirit has left the body, there is no turning back. Instead of the spirit traveling in and out of the body, could it be that the consciousness is doing the traveling? Some pretty amazing things happen to people while clinically dead. They are able to see things around them and hear things that they couldn't possibly have heard and seen. I think some of the experiences may also just be the person's imagination. I find it hard to believe that our spirits don't know what they are doing after our bodies die. After all, they have done this reincarnation thing thousands, if not millions, of times. It makes more sense to me that past life memories and apparent possessions and ghosts are better explained by other means. Also, I have heard it is false that a person can't lie or tell imaginary stories while under hypnosis. And, is it possible that they may be picking up memories of OTHER persons from the Akashic Records and not their own memories from past lives? There is a lot I would like to learn about this subject. Salome, Ardie | ||
Jim Deardorff |
Hi Ardie, I admit much ignorance about consciousness traveling. Is a person who's having an NDE, and who looks down on his body on the operating table and sees or hears things he shouldn't have, engaging in an accidental remote viewing? I think the life review a good percentage of them undergo, where their whole life flashes by in front of them, emotions and all, instead indicates the spirit is involved, not the consciousness. I think the consciousness is unconscious during clinical death. And it would seem to be the spirit that does the traveling, since if it doesn't return to the body, the body is indeed dead. If instead it was the consciousness that didn't return to the body, we'd have, in place of all the NDEs on record, people in comas after clinical death. You also said, "I find it hard to believe that our spirits don't know what they are doing after our bodies die. After all, they have done this reincarnation thing thousands, if not millions, of times..." Well, if the incarnated spirit, after leaving the "spiritual world" (the Light) and entering a fetus, normally doesn't remember any of its past lives, should we expect it to remember all about them, or all about the spiritual world, too, before it reenters the spiritual world by "going to the Light?" I think Jmmanuel had it right when he said, in TJ 24:39, that if you could talk to dead people, "the dead could tell you only the wrong thoughts they already had during their lifetime." Your question about whether a person undergoing past-life hypno-regression gets his memories from his own spirit's memories of past lives, or from the Akashic Records, was one that Michael Horn asked, too. Some of the regressees have remembered not only their own deaths, but going into the Light also. This is consistent with NDEs, and with a spirit's memories, but not, I think, with an Akashic Records look-up. It indeed seems to be true that a person under hypno-regression may not recall facts from a past life any better than from a present life, and therefore can make mistakes. | ||
Ardie Fox |
Hi Jim, You said "I think the life review a good percentage of them undergo, where their whole life flashes by in front of them, emotions and all, instead indicates the spirit is involved, not the consciousness." Earlier, I believe Andrew said something to the effect that our spirits are in a neutral state and do not experience emotions. If that is true, then it would seem that something besides our spirit would be involved in a whole life flashback that involved emotions. I am not sure that remote viewing and consciousness traveling are the same thing. Does anyone else know about this? I have heard quite a bit about remote viewing, but very little about consciousness traveling. There was mention made about Billy being able to consciousness travel and I assume others may be able to do it too. What are the differences, if any? Our consciousness seems to be working while we are in a dream state while sleeping. Perhaps it is still working during clinical death. Does anyone know more about this also? Regarding your statement: "Well, if the incarnated spirit, after leaving the "spiritual world" (the Light) and entering a fetus, normally doesn't remember any of its past lives, should we expect it to remember all about them, or all about the spiritual world, too, before it reenters the spiritual world by "going to the Light?" If the consciousness and the spirit are two different things, then I could see how a person would not normally consciously remember past lives. We aren't meant to remember. It would be too overwhelming, I believe. At least at our stage of evolution. After death, our consciousness and personality are no longer a part of our spirits. I think our spirits always know what to do, we just don't consciously realize it while we are in a body. You quoted from the TJ: I think Jmmanuel had it right when he said, in TJ 24:39, that if you could talk to dead people, "the dead could tell you only the wrong thoughts they already had during their lifetime." That is interesting. I am going to do some thinking on that one! Also you said, "Your question about whether a person undergoing past-life hypno-regression gets his memories from his own spirit's memories of past lives, or from the Akashic Records, was one that Michael Horn asked, too." That was referring to my question: "And, is it possible that they may be picking up memories of OTHER persons from the Akashic Records and not their own memories from past lives?" Since all thoughts, emotions, memories, etc. are stored in the Akashic Records, I assume they are from our LIVES and not from when we are in spirit form. So my question was not concerning our spirits' memories versus Akashic Records, but memories from other peoples' past lives being mistaken for memories from our own past lives. Any of my statements are merely my own interpretations of what I have read in any of the FIGU material and on the discussion site. If I have made any misstatements, please correct me you all! Salome, Ardie | ||
Scott Baxter |
Hello I think a couple of things are going on here as far as different aspects of consciousness and the spirit and the psyche. My understanding is that we have a material consciousness and a spiritual consciousness. The material side (Pschye) is able to generate and percieve thoughts, emotions etc. The spiritual side is able to perceive spiritually, which to me means "remote viewing" and consciousness traveling and many other spiritual attributes. Personally I think remote viewing is just a new age term for consciousness traveling. It seems that you need your spiritual consciousness to travel, to percieve something from a remote location. I think the idea of "Out of the Body" experience is also one in the same in which you are using your spiritual consciousness to perceive your body remotely outside of the physical confines of your body. In regards to remembering past personalities, I wonder if it has anything to do with tapping into the comprehensive consciousness block which was discussed earlier in the forum. Ive included a quotation from Andrew in regards to this: "The spirit form, as you might know, is a part-piece of the Creation, i.e., your spirit (as energy for the animation of life as well as the energy for EXISTENCE throughout all lifetimes). The Comprehensive Consciousness Block ("Gesamtbewusstseinsblock" in German) is a kind of storage bank that harbours all of the knowledge that a human has gathered throughout all of his/her lifetimes in the form of personalities. That is to say that the comprehensive consciousness block is present in your consciousness right now as your "personality." At death the comprehensive consciousness block goes to a special storage area only to be reincarnated again (along with (united with) your spirit form) as a new life, and hence, a new personality." Also in this regard I dont believe the storage area mentioned above is the same thing as the Akashic record. One other thing which I think has been mentioned before in regards to NDE. If I remember correctly wasnt it discussed that NDE were really generated by the brain, and that many of the experiences people had could be duplicated by applying certain stimulation to various parts of the brain? Interesting discussion,thanks everybody.... Salome Scott Salome Scott | ||
Jim Deardorff |
Hi Ardie, and Scott, I've run out of time for anything but a couple quick responses now. You wrote, Ardie, "So my question was not concerning our spirits' memories versus Akashic Records, but memories from other peoples' past lives being mistaken for memories from our own past lives." Things would really be all messed up, wouldn't they, if everyone under hypno-regression could access anyone's past lives? Other than the unimaginable tangle that would be, one piece of evidence I can think of against it right now is that past-life researchers have repeatedly found that a traumatic death or experience in one past life, centuries ago, of a person quite often leads to trauma or phobias related to that death that persist into one or more subsequent lives. They seem to be connected. Perhaps more convincing is that a lot of past lives have been identified through spontaneous recall by the particular child at different times separated by days, months or years. I'm thinking of the childhood cases in particular. Thus, when all these pieces of recall were collected they formed a consistent picture of a particular life that had been lived in the past, and which, after considerable investigative digging, could be identified beyond doubt. If these memories had instead come from different persons via the Akashic records, the recall would be from different persons, and the pieces wouldn't fit any particular individual who had lived in the past. (Unless an Akashic Records librarian was purposely trying to keep records consistently switched!) Same with hypno-regressive recall. The patient can keep going back to the hypno-regressionist's couch every month or so to retrieve more memories, sometimes of the very same past life, and learn more about that past life that fits in with what was learned before, indicating that random connections to the Akashic Records weren't involved. Scott, regarding that Comprehensive Consciousness Block teaching that you quoted from Andrew, the confusing aspect of it for me is that it implies that this Block represents all our stored personalities of the past, but yet also represents our present personality, too. But of course the two are different. Perhaps there was a problem in translation. Thanks for the discussions. | ||
Michael Horn |
Thanks Jim, More to think about and as far as what Ardie said, "Also, I have heard it is false that a person can't lie or tell imaginary stories while under hypnosis. And, is it possible that they may be picking up memories of OTHER persons from the Akashic Records and not their own memories from past lives?', this seems to be very important to consider. | ||
Michael Horn |
First of all, a great big thank you to Andrew for all of his remarkable and conscientious work as a moderator on the board. I look forward to his next form of contribution/participation when, and however, he "reincarnates" to interact with us. Regarding the comments on remote viewing, perhaps it will help to define the one form that I became familiar with when I worked on the TRV (Technical Remote Viewing) home study videotape project. The technique was described by Ed Dames, ooops, a little comment here first. My personal experience was that Ed was unbelieveably inept himself as a viewer, his predictions ranged from pathetically inaccurate to hilariously hyperbolic. He represented that the technique he taught and used was the same used by U.S. Army Intelligence. Naturally, considering the alleged source then, we were in no way able to confirm that this was strictly so. As for the technique, it was specifically NOT an out-of-body type process. It is actually done eyes open, fully awake, using a pencil and paper. Ostensibly, the collective consciousness, called the Matrix by Dames, holds all information about all matters past, present and future. When targetting a specific person, place, thing or event (and without going into all of the details) the session monitor first places an envelope on the table that contains the picture or description of the target. The envelope simply has specific, but apparently randomly generated, numbers which serve to identify (but not reveal to the viewer) the target. Once the numbers are read off by the monitor the viewer starts off by spontaneously making a pictogram, a line or squiggle in one of four different specific shapes to designate the nature of the target. From there, by periodically touching the pencil to the line in various places, other information is supposedly gleaned, such as temperature, texture, taste, color, height, width and other various attributes and dimensions. Through this process, and subsequent steps, more and more information is added until, at some point a rudimentary line drawing is purposely and spontaneously rendered by the viewer and, though in the early stages it will probably bear no actual resemblance to anything, the various attibutes, dimensions, etc., previously ascertained, are ascribed to specific areas of the newly rendered line or shape. From there on the process becomes one of more detail and refinement leading to more and more precise rendering until the result is obtained and compared with the target. In advanced work three dimensional forms may even be sculpted by the viewer. (At no time does the viewer consciously try to focus on seeing the target, analyzing or figuring it out. Should the viewer become aware of such thoughts, desires or impulses, he calls a break in the process, acknowledges the "analytical overlay", I believe that is what it's called, and then resumes again with clear and open intent.) I have seen some very accurate matches between drawiing/viewings and targets, produced by some students and experienced viewers, and experienced a couple of direct hits myself in a brief mini-training I had. I cannot say for sure that there was not some psychic influence or help from the monitor, who, in these sessions was usually Ed and who always knew what the target was. At this time I cannot vouch for the validity of the process, remote viewers in general or other specific viewers in particular. I am aware that some remote viewers describe their process as more of a psychic one or a visual trance-like experience. I believe Billy and Ptaah had a conversation, perhaps in 1995 or so, in which they acknowledged that both the Americans and the Russians had remote viewing programs in process through their intelligence agencies but I remember that they claimed something to the effect that Ed Dames was a charlatan who was mainly in it for the money. I'll let that one be and simply add that I hope this helps to fill in at least a little info on one of the forms called Technical Remote Viewing. | ||
Ardie Fox |
Hi Michael, Thanks for the information on Remote Viewing. Most of what I have heard about RV was also from Ed Dames on the radio. While I thought RV was possible, I was not very impressed with Dames. Especially when he said that TWA 800 crashed because of a spark (like the official story) and because he claimed to have RVed Satan and discovered a diabolical plan of his. This reminds me of a time several years ago when my youngest son was about 8 or 9. I drew about 6 different shapes on separate cards and had my two sons try to guess what the shape was. When it was my older sons turn, my youngest would also blurt out what he thought it was and he was correct every single time. But, when it came to his real turn to do it, he must have felt the pressure and could not do it anymore. Ardie | ||
Jim Deardorff |
Hi Michael, I also long ago placed no credence in Ed Dames. Regarding your persistent question: "And, is it possible that they may be picking up memories of OTHER persons from the Akashic Records and not their own memories from past lives?', this seems to be very important to consider." My previous reasons evidently didn't persuade you that under hypno-regression the past life scenes comes from the patient's own spirit's memories, not from the Akashic Records. I'm disappointed! But let me try once more, with a different approach. If all these tens of thousands of past lives that the hypno-therapists have regressed their patients into had come willy-nilly from the Akashic Records, then a lot of them would have been of persons who had not died until the patient was already 2, or 5 or 10 or 20 years old. There would be nothing to prevent it. This hasn't happened, or they would have noticed it decades ago. The past life always died before, or long before, the patient was born. That fits the concept of rebirth as Jmmanuel espoused it, and not the Akashic Records. | ||
Inger Wikstrom |
Hello Jani, Thanks for answering my question about Jezihra earlier (september 23). Now I wonder, does anyone know where I can find this book, the translation of the real Jezihra? In the "OM"? Regards, Inger | ||
Michael Uyttebroek |
Dear Readers... If in a past life I had drowned (for example)...a traumic experience to be sure, would I then carry forth this experience into my next incarnation in the form of perhaps a fear of water? The response from Billy was no. Salome, Michael Uyttebroek | ||
Jim Deardorff |
Hello Michael U., The example you gave is one which quite a few hypno-therapists have found does happen and has happened. So, it raises the question of where Billy obtained the information that caused him to respond with "no." | ||
Ardie Fox |
Hello Michael, I had been wandering about that. I have read alot of stories about people with phobias or other health problems and through hypnosis and past life regressions had discovered that they had had something that happened to them then that was affecting their life now. But, if we have a new personality and consciousness with each new lifetime, it would not seem likely that an event from a past life would affect a current life. Salome, Ardie | ||
Jani Metso and Janette Poikajärvi |
Hello, Yes, and I doubt if one should pay much attention to the so-called hypno-therapists, at least when past lives are concerned. I think that it is truly not often that person remembers or can remember past lives - it must be rare indeed. My opinion is that individuals who have purportedly remembered past lives under hypnosis, are either inventing what they see/"remember" (either consciously or unconsciously) or collecting their "memories" from the collective consciousness. Salome, Jani | ||
Jean Pierre Lagasse |
Hello Jim, Does not Michael's example ALSO raise the question of where the resarcher's got their conclusions, from the data they collected? Salome, JPLagasse | ||
Scott Baxter |
Hello Does anyone remember reading in the contact notes (unofficial translation) about Billy being put under Hypnosis. If I remember as a result the hypnotist experienced some type of reaction, because Billy had in place a protective block which prevented people from being able to hypnotize him and extract information. I dont remember the motivations why Billy did this, but I think it may have had something to do with discovering his own past lives, because I think the Plejarens kept him in the dark about this information, until he discovered it himself. Salome Scott | ||
Jean Pierre Lagasse |
Hi All, Jim! I think it VERY important we continue to listen to what our earth researchers find, including "past life regression" etc... & incorporate this into our "data". Their data contain many valuable clues about how all this stuff works. (understatement!) It is the "religion of science", I personally, have an issue with. (Perhaps I shouldn't be this way, eh? Perhaps I am still "young" spiritually!) Jim, you have added considerably to my own personal info... In addition, I find your comments/"points of view" "make me think" & therefore are of much value to me... Excellent strategy! Thanx Jim! Salome, JPLagasse | ||
Michael Uyttebroek |
Dear Readers... It seems that we are getting off the topic of the TJ, and that this new discussion should fall another heading, yet nevertheless I will post this here. As Andrew previously posted there are several storage banks to consider: 1. The Beyond where our spirit goes when we die 2.The Akasha Chronicles (AC) where everything a person does, acts, feels and thinks (who has ever lived or is living on this planet) is stored. 3.The Material Consciousness Level or Storage Bank where the Comprehensive Consciousness Block (CCB) with all of the knowledge a person has gathered throughout all of his lifetimes is stored. To quote Christian Frehner: "In the actual life the CCB is present in the consciousness as personality. Every nano second it (the CCB) sends impulses to the AC, impulses of what you feel, perceive, hear, smell, do,etc. When the human dies he loses his body. The CCB, the personality, leaves the body and enters a special sphere, plane or level, where it continues to exist, together with all stored knowledge, while the spirit form enters the Beyond. We call this level the "material consciousness level" or "material consciousness storage bank". "During reincarnation, the CCB, together with the spirit form, re-enters the new body, and both unite in the new life. However, that which had been stored as personality did change into a new personality (during the stay in the higher realm/plane/level). Therefore, the old personality has vanished and changed into an entirely new personality. This personality, the CCB, is able to draw impulses from the AC." Another related point to consider is Fluidal Forces (FF). The function of these FF is to provide a connecting link (in subconscious form) via the CCB from past lifetimes to the current lifetime in the form of impulses. FF are electromagnetic vibrations that are created and emitted by every human being. These vibrations are connected to the body and exist as long as the body or parts (i. e. bones) exist. FF are not the aura. FF are stored in objects around the person. Under certain circumstances FF can be seen as hazy, foggy things/entities, hence ghosts! Salome, Michael Uyttebroek | ||
Mark Campbell |
Hi Michael ; Do you mean that the fluidal forces are stored in rings/ jewelry/statues and even work tools while we live? I thought the FF would reside in the bones while we live also , but I assume that's not true. Salome, Mark | ||
Marc Juliano |
Hello all, As Michael Uyttebroek pointed out, we are off topic here in this section The Talmud Jmmanuel: General Area which should stay focused on the book Talmud of Jmmanuel. For discussions about fluidal forces, past lives, etc., please use the The Spiritual Teachings area under the topic Reincarnation, Death and the Akashic Records, for instance, if you want to pursue detailed discussion on these topics. Thanks! Marc Juliano | ||
Scott Baxter |
Hello In the Talmud of Jmmanuel chapter 8 page 61 the story has been discussed regarding the healing of the two possessed people. According to the story which generated much discussion one thing that was stated was that the body could only be inhabited by one spirit form at a time. The people in the story as was stated were possessed by evil spirits which according to what was discussed could not have been true, but possibly they suffered from sort of mental disorder which took on the appearance of being possessed and Jmmanuel may have been able to "straighten" their thinking out or something to this effect. I would like to point out some information that I located in the contact notes. I realise that the official contact notes are still in the process of being translated and corrected, and that the unofficial notes do have errors in them. What I came across was a discussion between Billy and Semjase during the 7th contact (Feb. 25, 1975)regarding when a person dies and what happens to the spirit: 180. When now a guest-body has died, then the spirit vanishes and normally goes over into a finematerial world. 181. There he also has to live through certain periods, until he newly can claim for a guest-body, for his guest-body. 182. When a guestframe but gets destoyed by force under any circumstances, then can happen, the spirit searching for himself quickest another guest body and inhabits in this. 183. He even often penertrates into frames, which are already habitated, under such circumstances. 184. This consequences then, that two spirit effect heavy confusion in one single guest-body. This portion of the conversation seems to indicate that two spirits can occupy the same body resulting in many problems for the original spirit. I realise this is a rough translation, but it does seem to indicate that two spirits can inhabit one body, which seems to be in contradiction to earlier information posted on this subject. Any thoughts? Salome Scott B. | ||
Jim Deardorff |
Hello Scott and Michael U. and others, Yes, Scott, this exchange from the Contact Notes definitely supports what's in the Talmud of Jmmanuel, and agrees with what numerous very capable hypno-therapists have found to be true. Thus I find Jean Pierre's remarks of Oct. 11 also to have been right on. As I've pointed out before, there are excellent reasons why some of the information that Billy was given to pass on to us was contradictory or incorrect -- so that we would have to learn from our own thinking, which means to pay plenty of attention to what our own scientists and researchers discover so that we can discern the truth from among their findings. As I recall, Billy was told perhaps more than once that he was not to divulge certain things he had learned from the Pl's until our own science had made their own first discoveries of them. (This seems to be the policy that was actually pursued, and thus not disinformation.) I see no reason why this same policy would not carry over into the realm of spiritual findings, notwithstanding the apparent fact that humans are greatly lagging in their spiritual knowledge relative to our level of technology. On the other hand, with the TJ, I see no reason why Jmmanuel would have had to conduct the same policy of including purposeful disinformation. He and his contacting Pl's apparently foreknew that his teachings would be greatly distorted for a long time (TJ 4:42-49), yet he was supposed to teach the truth anyway, since they also foreknew that it would come to light a couple thousand years later when we should be in a much better position to understand the truth. There would have been no point in Jmmanuel including purposeful disinformation in his teachings, knowing that total distortions of his truthful teachings would be occurring. This is why I place great value in the truth of what the TJ teaches, allowing that Jmmanuel had to use the language and concepts of that day to put his ideas across. Thus, when a possessing "demon" speaks through a person in the TJ's episodes, and so sounds like a departed spirit speaking, I see no reason to disbelieve this interpretation if it accords with what the best hypno-therapists have also found. | ||
Scott Baxter |
Hi Jim I wanted to convey more information about this discussion to you in e-mail, would that be possible? Scott B. | ||
Michael Uyttebroek |
Hello all... With regards to the 'evil spirits' possessing the two people in the TJ. This refers to delusional/ confused thoughts and not some evil spirits possessing them... which is impossible anyway. With regards to two spirits inhabitating one body I was told this is an extremely rare occurrance. Dear Jim... You say that Billy was given information to pass on to us that was contradictory or incorrect. Could you give me some examples of what you are referring to. With regards to having the dead speak through someone, there is a detailed explanation in 'An Interview with Billy Meier - The Spiritual Teachings' ...answer # 11. Here is the question and an excerpt of the answer. Question 11. "Can someone contact the Beyond and those who are dead?" Answer 11. "No. As a rule, this is impossible. People who claim the opposite, in spite of what I have said here, and should related things emerge, such incidents are not truths but are big deceptions instead or self-deceit and events that either belong into the realms of the stored-record levels, charlatanries or fraud. When events are considered that are part of the stored-record levels, the so-called Akashic Records, then the following holds true: Every human being's thoughts, articulations, feelings or emotions, stirrings, impulses and the like, are deposited in the Akashic Records, the storage area in a terrestrial hyperspace. Anyone who can generate the frequencies identical to those of the deposited information with his or her thoughts, consciousness or some technology, will also be able to summon these frequencies. This implies that information that belongs to living individuals, even those who are dead, may be retrieved from the stored records as long as the person finds the specific frequencies of the other individuals. It is even conceivable that a form of logical communication can be initiated with stored impulses and information in the Akashic Records. Such communication is possible with deposited forms of comprehensive consciousness in the Beyond. But this is extremely rare and should not be misconstrued as a person being capable of speaking with the departed...." This is only part of the explanation. Anyone interested can further read up on this topic on FIGU's website. Salome, Michael Uyttebroek | ||
Michael Davo |
Dear Jim, You expressed the opinion that the Plejarans have given Billy Meier some contradictory, incorrect and purposeful disinformation to pass on to us. Do you think it's possible that the contradictory, incorrect and purposeful disinformation finds its' basis in poor translation from the original German Contact Notes? For instance, when comparing Wendelle Stevens' version of Contacts 1 & 2 to the approved counterparts posted on the FIGU web site, certain portions are as different as night and day. Further, Stevens' version contains a number of significant omissions. As far as I know there exist only a handful of English translated Contact Notes that carry the FIGU's approval. I also understand their position is that Stevens' version does more harm than good. Not that this proves anything, but I wonder if there are German speaking people, well-versed in the Meier case, with full access to everything Billy has written, that share your opinion about contradictory, incorrect and purposeful disinformation being passed on to us. Best regards, Michael Davo | ||
Jim Deardorff |
Michael D., It's quite possible that a small percentage of the disinformation involves translation errors, but I think it's a small percentage. It certainly would be good if the Contact Reports were available in English as translated by someone capable like Christian, for example. Michael U., I gave several examples of what I've called disinformation two or three weeks ago in this Forum. Scott Baxter pointed one out also, in his above post here on Oct. 26th, in which he quoted from Contact Report #7 Semjase's statements #180-184. These contradict any belief that a departed spirit never goes into, or never possesses, a living person, and it tends to contradict TJ 8:32-34 also. (If we had a good translation of those statements of Semjase, the spirit would have been referred to as "it" rather than "he;" the German "Geiste" being masculine, not neuter, fooled an earlier translator into thinking it would be referred to as masculine also in English.) | ||
Jim Deardorff |
Correction: In the above, I meant to say: I gave several examples of what I've called disinformation two or three weeks ago in this Forum. Scott Baxter pointed one out also, in his above post here on Oct. 26th, in which he quoted from Contact Report #7 Semjase's statements #180-184. These contradict any belief that a departed spirit never goes into, or never possesses, a living person, and tend to support TJ 8:32-34. Sorry for my error; it wasn't intended! | ||
Savio |
Hello It was mentioned that the latest version of the TJ (version 2000?) will soon be available. Is there a date for the release? What is the colour of the new TJ cover? Regards Savio | ||
Jim Deardorff |
Hello Savio, I've just quizzed Granite Publishing (Brian Crissey), and he guesses now that it will be another 6 months before the new TJ is out. It still has to undergo a review by Meier, and that could take an unknown length of time. In the meanwhile, they've printed 400 more copies of the present edition of the TJ to tide them over. I think the new cover will be of varied cover -- an outdoor scene perhaps as seen through a darkish red tint. | ||
Savio |
Hi Jim Thanks for the information. I think I will have to get a copy of the existing version, it would be unbearable to wait for another 6 months or more. I will make use of the overseas service provided by the billymeier.com, they informed me last week that overseas service is launched. Regards Savio | ||
Michael Uyttebroek |
Hello Jim and all... Re: The 'evil spirits' possessing the two people in the TJ chapter 8 Line 32. This refers to delusional/ confused thoughts within the material consciousness and not some evil spirits possessing them... which is impossible anyway. The reason why I say that it is impossible is for exactly the same reason as Andrew gave on an earlier posting...The human spirit cannot be evil, only neutral. Salome, Michael Uyttebroek | ||
Jim Deardorff |
Hello Michael, I also don't think they were evil. Rather, they were ignorant spirits who didn't know better. The close connection between ignorance and evil is given in TJ 25:15-17 and in 26:27. | ||
Anthony Alagna |
Hello Michael, I think you bring up a very important point concerning this Chapter 8 discussion by further expressing that the spirit is neutral, and therefore wouldn't express any material attributes -- evil, ignorant or otherwise. Along these lines, I have read and heard the Creation referred to as a "She"; and I think this would be incorrect because the Universal Consciousness does not just contain feminine countenance, but all aspects making a whole. So this infinite concept we call Creation, at least in my mind, should be referred to in English as an "It." So just maybe we need to go one step further in our thinking about the power of the spirit; such that it is not the spirit alone (a tiny fragment of Creation) which participates in the reincarnational process for the human being, but that consciousness too provides an important role in establishing the material side of existence. So maybe the two work together, each in their own realm; something like the spirit being some sort of 'spiritual anchor' for material consciousness when a person is alive, providing the personality when an infinite, neutral spirit is incarnate. So lingering elements on the material side from previous incarnations, like possessions, could very well be tied to consciousness that 'lives on' in the material realm, even when the spirit is on the Other Side. That's why I think FIGU recommends burial over cremation; that way a corpse can decay slowly over time, and the related consciousness can remain, for the most part, solely around the body until the spirit enters the material in a new incarnation. Best regards, Anthony | ||
Jim Deardorff |
Anthony, May I jump in here? You wrote: "I think you [Michael U.] bring up a very important point concerning this Chapter 8 discussion by further expressing that the spirit is neutral, and therefore wouldn't express any material attributes -- evil, ignorant or otherwise." We do have the TJ itself, in 18:41-42, teaching that: "The human spirit is ignorant until it has gained knowledge through thinking and inquiry. A person's spirit is not a concoction of hummanity but is a part of Creation given to him. It must be made knowing and perfected," Here Jmmanuel was expressing the truth that the human spirit starts out being very ignorant. | ||
Anthony Alagna |
Hello Jim, I think the key to TJ 18:41-42 is that evolution (overcoming ignorance) is by "...knowledge through thinking..." According to the FIGU, spirituality is a consciousness-related exercise; so for me, this suggests that spiritual evolution for the human being is not just a function of the spiritual realm, but to the levels of this Universal Consciousness a person explores (through thinking) while they are alive. So rather then attributing everything to the spirit (a tiny fragment of pure Creation), maybe we should be looking at any limitations of the human being as being those related to material consciousness, and not the infinite spirit? So maybe it's more like, "the human being-- not the spirit form-- starts out being very ignorant, until he thinks more and more about his spirit (Creation)?" Best regards, Anthony | ||
Jim Deardorff |
Hello Anthony, The TJ meaning seems to be that when the spirit starts out ignorant (having very little knowledge), then the first human it incarnates into tends to be ignorant or slow-witted or makes a lot of mistakes. But as he learns from these mistakes, his spirit retains that learning as knowledge. However, it may taken dozens (or thousands?) of later incarnations before that same spirit reaches a level of knowledge that permits civilized behavior and good morals and logical thinking for the person it dwells in. So, surely the body is just as important, since that's the place where the spirit has its experiences from which it can gain in knowledge. | ||
Rick Nelson |
Hello, I understand the main purpose of Billy's present incarnation as prophet is to disseminate as much information as possible regarding all of mankinds' illogical teachings, beliefs, practices, religions, etc. I also understand the main purpose of Billy's previous incarnation as the prophet Mohammed was to disseminate techings which would counteract the worldwide adoption of Christianity. What I fail to understand is the main purpose of Billy's incarnation as the prophet Jmmanuel. Why disseminate the teachings of that time knowing that two prophets would subsequently be required to clean up the mess? I guess what I am missing is the beneficial purpose Jmmanuels' teachings brought to the people of his time even though his teachings were falsified and distorted. I am no holy roller and don't mean to defend Christianity, but no one seems to talk about this. Peace, Rick Nelson | ||
Savio |
Truly, once the Way is lost, There comes then virtue; Virtue lost, comes then compassion; After that morality; And when that's lost, there's etiquette, The husk of all good faith, The rising point of anarchy. Lao Tzu {approx 500 BC} The Mystic Wisdom of Ancient China Translated by Raymond B. Blakney | ||
Savio |
Hi Rick I asked your same question recently. Please see my above post( perhaps it should be in another column). However, it indicates that humans are out of the WAY (Creation). Andrew gave an answer - if Jmmanuel did not not come, humans would have totally destroyed themselves. Regards Savio | ||
Jim Deardorff |
Hi Rick, Those are good questions. I don't know if the answers are available. My opinion has been that Jmmanuel was supposed to disseminate truth so that bits of it might live on for people to think about and ponder as to whether it was truth or not. I think pieces of it did live on among some of the Gnostic sects of the 2nd century, such as reincarnation and their two-god concept (one true God that deals with spiritual matters and the other god (ET) who intervenes in human affairs). And a few pieces of it survived from the Talmud of Jmmanuel into the Gospels (e.g., the Golden Rule). And then we do now have the TJ, in which his pre-India teachings survived. It holds a lot more impact for us today knowing he had lived 1,970 years ago and become famous or infamous through Christian falsehoods. If J had not lived then, and then the TJ were discovered in our own era, it would exist in a sort of vacuum. Another way of looking at it is that Gabriel et al., and Jmmanuel, knew that mankind can learn only through first doing things wrong -- making mistakes -- as in TJ 18:47-48,53, and then eventually learning from those mistakes. So by bringing the truth to mankind at an early date, and earlier through some of the prophets, perhaps they believed they could accentuate and accelerate this process, and maybe they did. | ||
Rick Nelson |
Hi Savio, I wonder if it has always been, since humans were first contaminated by the genetic manipulation, that the species inevitably threatens to annihilate itself once it becomes sufficiently evolved in technological matters? I also wonder how many times in the past our ancient forefathers "evolved" to the brink of extinction? Were ET's always there to intervene? We need all the help we can get, even if it sometimes seems counterproductive. Peace, Rick Nelson | ||
Michael Horn |
Hello All, In reading the TJ I notice that Jmmanuel basically has nice and respectful things to say about god, the creator and overseer of the human races. Is this the same god we read about in the Old Testament who is responsible for the dreadful, vengeful and barbaric actions attributed to him? Is this a "later" god (though I don't read it that way?) Is this the same god who is/was the god of the Israelites, who are themselves roundly condemned throughout the TJ? I do recall that there were different gods over time but the way Jmmanuel refers to him it seems like it's the same, original god who certainly doesn't seem worthy of the reverence given to him by Jmmanuel. Thoughts please. Michael | ||
Marc Juliano |
Hi Michael, I recall hearing that the Jschwsch at the time of Jmmanuel was JHWH Kalatan. There were certainly other JHWHs/Gods (or self-appointed JHWHs/Gods) who ruled before and/or after Jmmanuel--one of them was "Jehovah, the Barbarous" who subjugated the Hebrews among others, as you know. The Old Testament involves events which transpired anywhere up to several thousands of years prior to the time of Jmmanuel, so there were many possible leaders throughout this time period who could have contributed their persona to these scriptures. Marc | ||
Savio |
Hi Michael and all Below is a brief history of the past for your interest. The information is collected from the websites regarding Wendelle Stewens, FIGU and others. 16,000 B.C. Arus "the Barbarian" an IHWH is exiled from Earth for trying to start wars. He hides out with his followers in the Beta Centauri star system. 14,000 B.C. Arus and his men return to Earth and settle in Hyperborea, which is the current location of Florida. 9500 B.C. The Pleiadians cause the old spirit-form from Lahson to come to Earth. 9498 B.C. Atlantis and Mu destroy each other and ruin the planet. The air is not breathable for 50 years. All survivors are driven underground. 9448 B.C. Jehovan a blood thirsty IHWH, the third son of Arus II, takes over the three remaining tribes left on Earth (Hebrew included?) and becomes the ruler. 8104 B.C. The Biblical Flood. 5000 B.C. Jehav again a blood thirsty IHWH, the son of Jehovan, takes over rulership. 1500 B.C. Moses the Egyptian man was active. He prepared the exodus of the Hebrew-Jewish people and was given the original PETALE Directives/Laws by a specific race of positive benevolent extraterrestrials. The later descendants of these "IHWH/Gods" became more humane and developed a degree of spirituality. Their spiritual evolution changed their minds and they decided to leave the development of the Earth beings to their natural course, and retired to their homeworld, so they left the earth and returned as peaceful creatures to the Pleiades, where their own mankind had reached advanced states. As we can see that there were many barbaric ETs in the past with only limited positive ones. Perhaps Jmmanuel was referring to those positive ETs. Regards Savio PS the above events and time may not be accurate. | ||
Mark Campbell |
Hi Michael ; I think the JHWH Kalatan was also known as Pleja - maybe as a first name, "Pleja Kalatan" .It could also be a name given to him by his Plejaren followers , because he was a well loved leader .He came into power about 150 years before Jmmanuel's birth .If I'm not mistaken , he took over from the volatile power base of Jehova's two sons, Jehav and Jehovan ,who rivaled each other . Jehova's full name was "Jehova Zeboath" .Does anyone have a phone book from that area of the world ? There may be some Zeboaths around today . Mark | ||
Michael Horn |
Thank you Marc and Savio. Michael | ||
Roger Rognes |
Hello Michael! I have a question regarded to the name Jehova. Is this the same as refered to in the bible? He who took the "Ischwisch" or "God" title? And was this a bad person? How did he ruled? What kind of technology do they had, since they later could travel away from earth? Is there any trace left from this advanced technology ? Regards, Roger! | ||
Inger Wikstrom |
Hello all, Who was this old spirit-form from Lahson, who the Plejarans made come to Earth in 9500 B.C. and why? Kind regards, Inger | ||
Scott B. |
Hello Inger I think you are talking about the Spirit form who lived the life of Jmmanual and the other prophets. Salome Scott | ||
Parik |
Hi, I have a question about the Hindu gods, Vishnu, Shiva, Brahma. They seemed to form a triumvirate of gods that oversaw the Devas and Asuras (equiv. the celestial sons, angels, fallen angels) and this case the people of India. Are they in anyway related to the Plejarans or were they another group of extraterrestial beings that came to Earth? Also, on a side note, is Brahman (the ultimate reality in the Upanisads) the same thing as Creation? Thanks Parik | ||
Michael Horn |
I recall that Billy has said that self-preservation is a very high priority for humans and that what we have come to know as self-sacrifice is, quite often, illogical and incorrect. In that light especially, why was it permitted and actually considered necessary for Jmmanuel to be crucified, one of the most tortuous, dreadful things that could be done to a person? Taking away all the nonsensical religious "died for your sins" stuff, just what was the reason and justification for him to be subjected to this? Michael | ||
Savio |
Hi Michael Jmmanuel has the power of knowing the future, but whether or not to interfer or act upon is another story. It seems that Jmmanuel chose to let it happened naturally; and in fact it is for his own benefit as well- TJ 18:64 "It will happen that I will attain a certain insight, increase my knowledge and bring about a new strength in spirit and consciousness" Regards Savio | ||
Jim Deardorff |
Hello again, Michael, Besides Savio's answer, there is the reason that surviving the crucifixion when most everyone thought he had died would (and did) permit J to continue to teach and bring enlightenment in more distant lands -- Anatolia and eastward to India/Kashmir. But if he had continued his teachings in Palestine, exposing the false teachings of the Pharisees, etc., without having "cleansed the Temple," say, and undergone "the" crucifixion, wouldn't the resentment against him continued to build up until he would be crucified, anyway? Another possible reason he had to undergo a crucifixion could be so that his teachings would gain more prominence, if he was thought to have died as a martyr. And his disciples would be all the more motivated to carry on his teachings if they saw him as being alive afterwards. (But this aspect didn't seem to work out so well, giving rise to the Christian myths!) But presumably the unspecified reason mentioned by Savio, of TJ 18:64, was the key thing. I wonder what the "certain insight" was. What most boggles my mind is how Jmmanuel could foresee his future fate and yet know how to act naturally such as not to try to either force it to happen or prevent it from happening. | ||
Savio |
Hi Jim I agree to your first reason, it matches Jmmanuel's saying in TJ 28:13 "I'll drink it, so that I may be enlightened in this secret and fulfill for all time my mission in a faraway country". On the other hand, power of "knowing the future" is not all that good after all. We can see how Jmmanuel suffered in facing his betrayal, he was scared to death - TJ 28:17 "His body trembled, and fine drops of sweaty blood flowed all over him because he was so afraid and anxious". This leads to my guess about that "certain insight/enlightened in this sercet". Perhaps this is to gain experience as a earth human (with our DNA)on reacting to a surely come great suffering, being very frightened, choose to complete the mission or flee? How to make decision? In such a case, only a high spritual consciousness, mind of steel and wisdom can accomplish the mission. Just a guess. Regards Savio | ||
Michael Horn |
Hi Jim and Savio, Good stuff, makes sense. I also wondered about Jmmanuesl's relatively short life span considering his ET genetics. Of course Mary's genes were presumably already age-limited, although I wonder if, or how or why, one would be the dominant influence over the other, i.e. her limited genes over Gabriel's presumably not limited ones. Salome, Michael | ||
Jean Pierre Lagasse |
Hi all, I wonder if J's treatment is somehow parallel or just as meaningful (?) to the treatment Galileo received? Granted, one incarnation dealt with physical knowledge & the other spiritual... but is there not a similarity in that both sets of knowledges were "expanding" & "advanced" ? Would not the spirit's expression to this physical reality be just as meaningful with either type of knowledge, although the topic materials are different? What is the purpose in expounding on one incarnation but not the other? Is this a "popular" thing to do? Would there be just as much "purpose" to one, as in the other? Why do we focus only on the one? Could we not gain understanding by studying several incarnations...? JPLagasse | ||
Jim Deardorff |
Hi Jean Pierre, Can you explain a bit? I mean, we are here expounding on the Jmmanuel incarnation because we know a lot about his Palestinian life, thanks to the TJ. We know practically nothing about the lives of Isaiah, Enoch, Jeremiah and Elijah, and can't trust the Old Testament very much. We must know a good deal more about Mohammed, but how trustworthy would the literature on him be? Are you implying that Galileo was the same soul? | ||
Jean Pierre Lagasse |
Hi Jim, By FIGU/Meier/Plejaran teachings (as best as I understand them), the soul (emotional center about mid-chest), dies with the physical body. Would spirit be a more appropriate term? (?) Regarding Galileo... do a keyword search on this forum. Perhaps I have misunderstood? I think there may be parallels between the two incarnations which might give us clues... both to the incarnations themselves and to ourselves, in the way we relate to these and the differences between the two. I could describe some of the treatment Galileo received, but respect for Mr. Meier & possible remembrances (by him) stop me from describing these in this forum. I'm not sure which incarnation’s treatment was more cruel, particularly for the topic materials involved. One would think that spirituality, being somewhat more esoteric, & more abstract to physical minded people than astronomy, would be less understandable (to them/us?) & one might understand J’s treatment a little more. The people could have been frightened /threatened (etc.), or what? Galileo & astronomy, however, dealing with a cut & dried issue, in which all they had to do was look out of the telescope… (literally)… This is the clincher… I do not understand the treatment he received and yet perhaps… he was dealing with religion people again? Are we all more religious than we want to admit? (Perhaps I am too?) Perhaps we treat our present geniuses the same… perhaps we are not as advanced as we all think we are? Perhaps we also do the same to portions of ourselves? Perhaps… Perhaps… etc. I see parallel situations all around us. Or… have I missed the point of all this entirely? (a distinct possibility…) Any comments whatsoever will be received with great interest… I love reading your contributions to this forum… they make me think! (maybe not such a good thing either, eh?) JPLagasse | ||
Jim Deardorff |
JPL wrote: "By FIGU/Meier/Plejaran teachings (as best as I understand them), the soul (emotional center about mid-chest), dies with the physical body. Would spirit be a more appropriate term? (?)" I use the two terms interchangeably. I was wondering if you thought that Galileo was the same spirit as Jmmanuel. Regards, Jim | ||
Jean Pierre Lagasse |
Hi Jim, A subtlety in “thinking(s)”… & “understanding(s)”…: I have no direct first hand knowledge on either incarnation, so I cannot give an authoritative answer. In other words, I don’t know…but… From what I've read (& understand as best as I can for now…) on this forum, however, I "proceed in thought" with the understanding that Nokodemjon (spirit form?) inhabited both Jmmanuel's & Galileo's physical bodies, as well as the rest of the physical personalities you mentioned... I would be fascinated to obtain a COMPLETE list of physical incarnations… which Nokodemjon inhabited… I’m not sure if anybody has ever asked this specific question, of Mr. Meier, or of the Plejarans. Given the style of answers given… (Plejaran/German(?)/FIGU thinking?) unless the question is VERY specific, an answer would be given, which COULD answer the EXACT question being asked. Sometimes, the questioner does not realize what his own question really means, & can jump to conclusions over the answer(s) (from FIGU etc.). We earth people aren’t particularly cerebral…(!) I do not recall a COMPLETE list ever being given… Does anybody have any info on this? It is very possible that this was given and I’ve missed it…(?) (Steven’s translations, etc.) It is possible that the Plejarans would not provide a complete list for general public consumption… (for really good reasons) & that the Core group might know this type of info…? (Many questions on this…(!)…) Sorry for being so tediously explicit in the above passages… this is a public forum, & the above text is tailored for such. Regards, JPLagasse | ||
Anthea |
Hi JP, The reason that I think a complete list of ALL of Billy's incarnations is not published is because:- (a) the list would be too long (possibly millions of incarnations) (b) it is not important or relevant that all of his incarnations are known (c) there is the danger of worshipping him because of who he was and is. Case in point: Jmmanuel. A whole religion grew out of distortions of the truth. A new religion is not the aim of Billy, the FIGU or the Plejarens. All that is important for us to know has been published, ie. the seven incarnations we know about. On another note, in response to your post of February 03, 2001: The psyche (half spiritual matter/half material matter) is located in the mid-chest area between the breasts and is the centre of emotions and feelings. The spirit (a small part-piece of Creation) is located in the brain and is the "motor" of life. If I myself understand this teaching correctly; when a person dies the psyche (which is half material) dies, the spirit does not die but goes to the beyond for an amount of time before a reincarnation occurs. Kind Regards, Anthea | ||
Savio |
Hello With reference to 1996 TJ Foreword XVII: "The number of murders on record committed by the "Holy See" amounted to nine million during the Inquistition, while the number of undocumented murders adds at least another nine million." While the Pope has recently apologized for the wrong doings of the ancient church, is there any proof/record/information on the internet/books that can confirm the above quoted figures? Regards Savio | ||
Steve Mironovich |
JPLagasse, As far as your parallel comparison on the treatment Galileo received & the treatment Mr. Meire receives was very insightful. Both gentlemen were & are way ahead of their time.Unfortunatly most geniuses have recieved the same type of treatment(disbelieved at best)and are proven to be correct only after they are not around to appreciate the credit they end up getting. Salome, Steve M. | ||
Michael Horn |
You might want to check this page out from the BBC that has a new rendering of the face of "Jesus". {http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/entertainment/tv_and_radio/newsid_1243000/1243954.stm} Michael | ||
Jim Deardorff |
Hi Michael, I saw this face on TV yesterday, I think it was. It seemed rather silly, that a researcher got hold of a 2000-yr old skull of a Jew or Palestinian, then reconstructed a face for it, and from this someone implied that "Jesus" would have looked like that. Did everyone look alike back then? Jim | ||
Mark Campbell |
Hi Michael and Jim ; The Human race always has a tendency to want to be and have experts on any subject , especially when the media is concerned . Any news is News .And as we know ,many researchers are guessing , and led astray by wrong assumptions .And Jim , you are right about their rediculous method , considering also that this random skull that they chose was not likely to have the genes of the so called "god", which in my opinion , would have dominated the gene pool , being so high and mighty . | ||
Anthony Hall |
>With reference to 1996 TJ Foreword XVII: > >"The number of murders on record committed by the >"Holy See" amounted to nine million during the Inquistition, >while the number of undocumented murders adds at least >another nine million." > >While the Pope has recently apologized for the wrong doings >of the ancient church, is there any proof/record/information >on the internet/books that can confirm the above quoted figures? > >Regards > >Savio During the Russian 1917 Revolution a few million Orthodox Christians were killed. I don’t know if this figure is included. At the time, the Vatican played an important role in bringing Communism and Bolshevik power to Russia to unseat the Czar and suppress the Orthodox Christians, their foes. The Vatican was very upset by the “Holy Alliance” that Russia’s czar Alexander I tried to forge in 1815. It is the Russian Orthodox Christians who are now getting back at the Vatican’s evil ways. 30 AD, the secret order inside Rome, the Illuminati came to power. They used the spoken word, inciting the slaughtering of Christians. By 1500, Rome allied with Venice, using the House of Hapsburg as a front, inciting the Spanish Inquisition and the Armada. By 1840, the Vatican allied with the Fondo Family Trust, using the British royalty as front, inciting the Napoleonic wars, railway-war, WWI and decentralizing of European monarchies. By 1918, a world government began to take shape by the Vatican, who forged an alliance with the Rockefellers of America and the Rothschilds of Europe, inciting Hitler, Stalin, radio-war, WW2 and decentralizing Western empires. By 1945, the Vatican backers: The Rockefellers (accountant) and Rothschilds (banker) did global campaigning to destabilize the world. Inciting the Cold War, TV-Hollywood-wars and decentralizing of governments of countries, paving the way for WWIII. By 1960, plans to reduce the population (I wonder what were their plans?). By 1977 left and right hemisphere objects: who get what. Today, the global government is inciting devil vs God, satan vs church and armageddon. Anthony | ||
Savio |
Hi Anthony Thanks for the information  I think I will have to dig deeper into the history of the Western World especially regarding Europe. On the issues of destabilize & decentralizing of the governments/world, what will be their benefits? Plan to reduce the population....through war? It seems that they never give way to birth control. Where can I search for more information? Perhaps inside the contact notes (yet to be translated)? Regards Savio | ||
Anthony Hall |
>On the issues of destabilize & decentralizing of the >governments/world, what will be their benefits? The big guys want to outmaneuver the little guys. So, the big guys infiltrate the little guys operation to destabilize, with hopes of bringing the little guys into a central house. This is the effect of globalism, or as conspirators call it “One World Government.” The benefit, to own everything! > >Plan to reduce the population....through war? It seems >that they never give way to birth control. I do not know what their reduce population plans were. I can only guess: Wars and disease. >Where can I search for more information? Perhaps >inside the contact notes (yet to be translated)? Some one alerted me to the Click comic series. Although written with a Christian bias, you can nonetheless extract useful information. You will also see how misguided Christians are. Go to Click and read the comic Godfathers: http://www.chick.com/reading/comics/0114/0114_fourpages.asp?pg=01 The “Holy Alliance” you should find in your encyclopedia or Internet. When America crowned herself as a force to be reckoned with after WWII, its intelligence community went into countries, allied with factions of Eastern and Western European. Before, the Vatican did the same with their Jesuit members. Their is a book by John Coleman called Conspirators’ Hierarchy available on Amazon. You can find transcripts of the old version of the book on the Internet. If you can’t, email me. The Rothschilds: A Family Portrait by Frederic Morton; out of print; 1962. Probably the best story about the family. The Rothschilds: A family of Fortune by Virginia Cowles; out of print; 1973. Details how the family loan money to Napolean to further his campaign, and how the Rothschilds helped unseat the Hapsburgs/habsburgs of Europe, etc. (The Hapsburgs are now getting back at the Rothschilds. Gunther Russbacher is a member of this once powerful family. He’s in American Intelligence. Austria is also connected to the Hapsburgs. Assassins from the Hapsburgs family tried to kill Hitler (a Rothschild offspring), but failed. What left of the Hapsburgs came to America. Austria is very, very anti-Rothschild.) The Rockefellers: An American Dynasty by Peter Collier and David Horowitz. Out of print; 1976. Anthony | ||
Savio |
Hi Anthony Very interesting information! The comic Godfathers really provided a good outline. Thanks a lot Regards Savio | ||
Norm |
Savio & Anthony, One of the best new books on the Conspirators is called Rule by Secrecy-The Hidden History that connects the Trilateral Commission, the Freemasons, And the Great Pyramids by Jim Marrs. I have read a ton of Conspiracy books and this one, is one of the best. I sure wish Billy would give us his view on this type of information. Sometimes I feel like the Plejarens don't even realize what's going on behind closed doors when it comes to the One World Government/New World Order. We view it as as a conspiracy, they probably view it, as business as usual on planet Earth. I feel these groups need to be exposed so that the masses can finally awaken to their destructive policies. | ||
Savio |
Hi Anthony What do you think about the accuracy regarding the event outlines provided by the comic Godfathers? I should do the verification by myself but would like to listen to your comments. Regards Savio | ||
Norm |
Who or what are the "comic Godfathers"? | ||
Savio |
Hi Norm It is the comic named "Godfathers". Stunning is the word.... Please visit the URL at chick.com provided by Anthony above. Regards Savio | ||
Anthony Hall |
Hi Savio, I will post the reply in another forum. Here is the link: http://forum.figu.org/us/messages/863/1497.html?984158013 | ||
Mario |
Hello. Mr. Deardorff, In the magazine "Zeitschrift fur Papyrologie und Epigraphik" (Bonn, N°99, 1994) was published an article about an "impressive finding" by researcher Carsten Thiede. It's about three fragments of papyrus dated in the II century which seems to be a part of the Book of Matthew, but with a little difference: to christian church's bad luck, the fragments are consistent with the Talmud of Jmmanuel and not with the Bible. The pieces were bought by reverend Charles Bousfield Huleatt (1863-1908) in Luxor. Huleatt died in an earthquake in Messina, Siscilia and all of his notes about his finding were then lost. The three old pieces found their way to Oxford, to the Magdalen college, where they were classified as Magdalen Gr-17: three fragments of papyrus that mentions the passage where a woman uses precious waters to pour in "his head" which made the disciples angry. Did you know about these finding? Considering that the Book of Matthew was based on the Talmud of Jmmanuel, is there a possibility that a copy of it still exists? Regards Mario | ||
Savio |
Hello all This is an interview of Carsten Thiede by Good News. Good News Interview: Carsten Peter Thiede: When Was the New Testament Written Regards Savio | ||
Mario |
Sorry, I didn´t notice that Mr. Deardorff had already answered my second question in a post to Inger (monday, october 2, 2000, 8:14 am) in part I of this discussion. However, regarding Matthew, it seems that through centuries there has been a number of persons who knew the real meaning behind the gospel. In the book "Le mystère des cathédrales", Fulcanelli wrote that the name Matthew, Matthaeus, is derived from a greek word that means "science". "The Book of Science" which it's opened when one has the "key", because only science is able to penetrate the mistery of things, beings and their fate, giving to man "wings" to reach knowledge and find "God" (Creation?). I think is no coincidence and that those persons knew that there was another source behind the Book of Matthew. What do you think? Mario | ||
Scott B. |
Hello Everyone There is a new 3rd Edition of the Talmud Of Jmmanuel out. Wendelle Stevens was selling them at the UFO Congress Expo in Laughlin Nevada this past weekend. Salome Scott | ||
Larry Driscoll |
Dear Scott, You ask previously about my private tanslations of Billy's "Aus den Tiefen...." book copies of which I sent to Christian who forwarded them on to Andrew. I have no address to send these translations to. My email is larrydriscoll@tbc.net. Figu and Andrew told me they can not release passive member information | ||
Savio |
Hello I just located within the Isaiah (7) - prophecy regarding the coming of Jmmanuel.... Quoted Then Isaiah said, "Hear now, you house of David! Is it not enough to try the patience of men? Will you try the patience of my God also? Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel. He will eat curds and honey when he knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right. Isaiah was talking about his own future reincarnation ..... Savio | ||
Phil McAiney |
Henok also prophecied the six future lifetimes he would reincarnate as a prophet, giving the names he would have as well, including the name "Billy". | ||
Michael |
Hi Phil, Where can we find the book or publication you refer to where Henok so prophesied? Michael | ||
Andrew C. Cossette |
Hi Michael, The information Phil suggested is written on the parchment paper in old Lyrian, available at the Center in photocopy form. I'm sure you remember. May I please further suggest to all Passive Members reading this/my post that they read (again) the essay Talkativeness and Missionary Work. It holds a very important bit of information that applies to this Forum, as well as other situations, not to mention the fact that it (the main lesson) can be practiced by all human beings in their dealings with others. It is damn upsetting to watch others (even long-time members) not pay attention to this most important article about behaviour. Without acknowledgement and comprehension of this essay, then one is no better than the religious vultures and zealots. Enough said! Regards, Andrew C. Cossette | ||
Scott B. |
Hi Michael In addition, Wendelle Stevens 4th book "Message from the Pleiades" also has a picture of this parchment of which Andrew speaks. Scott | ||
Phil McAiney |
It is also quoted in a pamphlet from FIGU written by Hans Georg Lanzendorfer called "Klarstellung zu einer verleumderischen Behauptung" ("Clarification of a Slanderous Claim") published in 1994. In this article, the translation of the ancient scroll-particle from Old-Lyrian into German is as follows: " Ich bin der Künder der Wahrheit, und in dieser Mission werde ich wieder sein unter wichtigen Malen mit der Benennung: Elja-Jesaja-Jeremia-Jmmanuel-Muhammed-Billy, so ich unter sieben Malen als Prophet werde den Menschen dienlich sein, ehe sich in deren Gesinnung der Wandel vollzieht zur Befolgung der Gesetzte und Gebote der Schöpfung." UNOFFICIAL AND PRIVATE TRANSLATION: "I am the herald of truth, and in this Mission will I again be in important times with the designations: Elijah-Isaiah-Jeremiah-Jmmanuel-Muhammed-Billy so I will be as a Prophet serving humanity seven times before a change takes place in their attitude that follows the laws and directives of The Creation." | ||
Jean Pierre Lagasse |
Hi all, As best as I know: There is a percentage of the TJ which is missing from the original text. This is due to parts of the text being unreadable and some was simply not translated. Is it known with certainty WHICH PORTION(s) are missing??? I've always assumed (till recently) that the missing portion(s) are all at the end (or after the last page in the TJ). Is it possible that there are missing portions throughout? Is it possible that "difficult" passages or sections were left to be done last & therefore were never translated? | ||
Jean Pierre Lagasse |
If it is known which portions are missing from the TJ, perhaps this could be noted in the TJ itself? This type of info might "give clues" to those studying the text? It's possible that this info is already given but I've missed it... If so, any info on this from anybody would be appreciated !! JP | ||
Lonnie Morton |
Hi JP, I have often wondered about that myself. Perhaps Jim Deardorff can shed some light on this for us. Lonnie | ||
Michael |
Knowing about the TJ puts the following from a story about the recently completed translations of the Dead Sea Scrolls in perspective: "Reading of the scrolls did not shake Judaism or Christianity as some scholars had anticipated, but there was debate over the years over why they did not mention Jesus Christ. Tov explained that it was probably too early for Jesus to appear in the literature. ``Don't forget that all the scrolls written prior to the year zero could not have mentioned him,'' Tov said. ``So you are left only with the scrolls from zero to around 70. Then don't forget the New Testament itself was not written in the year zero or the year one, or two but the first writings were in the middle of the first century so it wasn't yet written up.'' | ||
Anthea |
Hello, If I'm not mistaken, the part that is missing from the TJ were destroyed in a fire while the manuscript was still in Isa Rashid's possession. Again, if I'm not mistaken, the part that was saved from the fire is a whole translation, i.e. there are no missing parts from this particular portion of the TJ. However, I am open to correction. Regards, Anthea | ||
Jim Deardorff |
Hello Anthea and Lonnie, Thanks Lonnie for bringing this to my attention, as I haven't been monitoring this Forum very often lately. Perhaps it would help a bit if in the forum-headings indexes the year of the latest contributions could be listed, as well as month and date, as there are quite a few TJ chapters that were commented upon a year or so and not since. According to Billy, about 2/3 or 3/4 of the TJ translation -- its latter portions -- is missing due to the destruction of the original scrolls in 1974. But in his Foreword to the TJ, as Jean Pierre points out, he also mentions that various pieces of what should be in the existing TJ were either crumbled away or illegible. I myself have no idea of where those could be. Certainly the existing text gives little obvious indication of this. Presumably it occurred in spots for which the Gospel of Matthew has no parallel verse. E.g., somewhere in TJ chaps. 12, 14, and 32-on. Here's a candidate spot: At the end of chap. 14. Jmmanuel had just been in Bethlehem. At the beginning of 15 he goes out and walks to the "sea," which presumably is the Sea of Galilee, which was a few days' walk away. Perhaps intervening text was lost that would have mentioned Jmmanuel and his disciples going back to Galilee. Regards, Jim Deardorff | ||
Savio |
Hi Jim I just finished reading "A Search For The Historical Jesus" by Professor Hassnain, in which, Jesus in India was well proven. Would like to hear your comment on why the lost years of Jesus (say from 13-29) also missing in the TJ? Regards Savio | ||
Norm |
I was watching a show on the History Channel called Secrets of the Ancient World. On the show the religious scholars were commenting on how Matthew, Mark & Luke are considered the Synoptic Gospels because they are so similar, and that Mark was being copied by Matthew & Luke, they also noticed there were some other texts in Matthew & Luke that were in a similar sequence, but did not come from Mark, they came from another unknown source, that they called Quale the Q Gospel. They finished up by saying the Q Gospel may never be found! How wrong they are, because that missing original Gospel is The Talmud Jmmanuel! | ||
Jean Pierre Lagasse |
Hi all, With Jim Deardorff's kind permission, I'm posting the following commentary he gave on the "Q Gospel"...: "...sort of has the right idea there, but it's not that simple. Q is defined by NT scholars as the material that's in both Matthew and Luke but which is not in Mark. First, Q is just a definition, which has gone on to become an assumption that most scholars have bought into, that there was once such a document. It allows them to assume that the writer of Luke did not copy from Matthew, and vice versa. This is easier on their faith, as it makes the Gospel writers out to be less dishonest than otherwise. Second, Mark wasn't written by John Mark, Matthew wasn't written by the disciple Matthew, and Luke wasn't written by Luke the physician. (The TJ didn't get carried back from India to the Mideast until early 2nd century.) Scholars just use those names for simplicity, as it saves them some space, and doesn't offend book and journal publishers, and their readership, who DO believe that the Gospels were written by the men whose names are attached to them. Third, and the chief problem, is that Matthew came before Mark, rather than the other way around. At least, Matthew in Hebrew/Aramaic form came before Mark, and that is primarily what the writer of Mark used in forming his gospel. From the TJ, one can see conclusively that Matthew was formed out of it, not Mark or Luke. However, NT scholarship is about 90% convinced, I'd estimate, that Mark came first. For several reasons, it's easier on their theological commitment to have it be that way than to have Mark be dependent upon Matthew. The bit of truth in relating "Q" to the TJ is that the TJ was the secret document they dared not talk about out of which Matthew was formed, and bits of which were used by the writers of Luke and John. (The writer of Mark wasn't in on the TJ at all, except for having that stolen script available to him that the TJ's chapter 14 refers to. He was evidently in Rome.) Back a century and a half ago, there WAS some speculation that Papias's Logia was the source of the Gospels, but modern scholars discount anything that Papias said. On the other hand, the scholars' Q wasn't heretical, since so much of Matthew and Luke was supposedly formed from it, and it's never been explained why this Q wouldn't have survived or have been written about extensively. It was Bishop Papias who wrote, around 145 A.D., that "Matthew compiled the Logia ("the sayings") in the Hebrew tongue, and each interpreted them as best he could." (That's all that's said anywhere about the provenance and formation of Christianity's first Gospel!!) These Logia then can probably be equated to the TJ. Regards, Jim" | ||
Jean Pierre Lagasse |
Hi Savio, Regarding your "Monday, November 19, 2001 - 04:48 am" post... interesting point !! I do NOT have any authoritative info regarding your question but only possibilities & speculations. From what I remember from the (Stevens' translations) contact notes, the Plejarens mentioned that the "original translator" experienced considerable mental torment (my terms) over the "TJ translation project". It is (again) only speculatory (from my side) that perhaps, when he got to translating the "India years", he really "freaked out" over the entire thing. If so, the info he ran into at this point would have really "ran against" his background & thoughts...??? He might have "put on hold", the entire project at this point. Like I said, pure speculation only, however a possible & maybe even a "likely" scenario?? It is perhaps "too coincidental" that the TJ (translation) covers the "normal NT" text & no further?? Whatever the REAL truth was/is... Makes you/us REALLY wonder what was in the "remaining TJ" text, eh? Just thoughts... JP | ||
Savio |
Hi JP Thanks for the response I would guess that those lost years were not in the TJ in the first place. If the lost years were in the original, it should occupy quite a number of chapters, age 13-29 is quite a long time and should have a lot to tell. If Mr. Rashid intentionaly skipped that part, he should have amended the Chapter No. as well, that made the translation not a faithful one. However, the TJ Chapter No. is in good sequential order. Perhaps Judas Iscariot was assigned to write the TJ as soon as he joined Jmmanuel, hence he did not have time to put the whole early history of Jmmanuel into black & white. However, at least he could have put in something like "From age 13-29, Jmmanuel travelled to India where he learned great wisdom". Would it be a good question to Billy when the opportunity is available again? As Billy explained in the "Epilog and Explanation" at the back of the TJ, I would guess that the other 3/4 of the original would be the record of the rest of the histoy of Jmmanuel around India. Regards Savio | ||
Norm |
I was wondering if Matthew was edited by more than one person, I feel there may have been a team of plagiarizers altering the TJ. Does anyone have any Ideas on this? | ||
Norm |
Did Billy ever mention if there are any other copies of the TJ buried somewhere, waiting to be discovered? If not, I have a solution the Plejarens could Time Travel back and rescue Isa Rashids copy, just before they are destroyed, and bring them back to Billy. Just a little wishful thinking on my behalf! |
