| Author |
Message |
   
Joseph_emmanuel
Member
Post Number: 12
Registered: 05-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 12:50 pm: | 
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Mark
Truly I am sorry if I have offended you. I had not intended to offend you or anyone else in this forum. My first post on this discussion board was simply an attempt to express what I felt to be a logical answer to my question to Eduard regarding reincarnation. It would have been nice to have received a reply that would have challenged my thinking and elaborated further on this subject. But instead I received several replies that just explained away certain “facts” concerning Eduard and his spirit and Jmmanuel’s place of birth, which I felt had nothing to do with the subject matter, but merely picked at one or two details in my question. Hence my implication of ‘quibbling’. Again I am sorry that this has offended you. But I stand by it, nonetheless, because when one makes a trivial point of criticism, which one had considering the “facts” pointed out to me were not in answer to my question, one is quibbling, although I do understand the importance of getting these “facts” right. But, Mark, as you may have realized, I have a little problem with my personality: when I feel I am not able to reason with someone - which in this instance I really did feel I wasn’t able to, or I would not have persevered in trying to make myself understood - I become overassertive. This stems back to my childhood, when my lack of assertiveness allowed a certain individual in my life to become overbearing. I’m sorry that this has come over to you as ‘an attempt to control everyone’. This is not my intention, and neither is it my philosophy. I share my understanding in the hope that others may share theirs, and, yes, I try to inspire (I don’t think there is anything wrong in that, since you are either inspired or you are not), but in no way do I impose what I have come to understand, nor am I so blind and ignorant so as to mislead. I might say that with the “factual” assertions made in reply to my post, it is you who is trying to control everyone, since it is you who has stated ‘This is so’ when no proof is offered, while I have simply and logically expressed an understanding I have and have not determined for anyone, as you say, ‘what is and what is not appropriate’. Indeed I would want to argue whether or not the information is valid, if I were that way inclined. But it is not the facts that interest me. It is the wisdom of the Spirit, the wisdom that exists within the laws of Creation. And that is where, I think, we seem to have got our wires crossed. While I spoke of the Spirit, you spoke of the world; while I spoke of wisdom, you spoke of knowledge. And as important as such knowledge may be to the world, to me it is not as important, as I need only know someone by their fruit, not by the tree to which they are rooted. So I ask you, Mark, is this forum a place where we are just given facts and figures, or this forum a place where our consciousness is also allowed to expand?
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Markc
Member
Post Number: 47
Registered: 06-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 12:15 am: |
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Greetings Joseph :
It was not necessary to apologize , because this is such a difficult way to communicate ( internet forum) . It's hard to be completely understood , as one person might reply to a post before he has taken the time to read it thoroughly , or even twice .It would be a good idea to ask someone to redefine their question , and read it the next day , and they can read your response two days later .
I was not really personally offended , but rather it was an attempt on my part to call attention to the way another person has expressed himself on this type of medium . You can complain as much as you want . If your complaint warrants another response that brings another complaint from you , maybe you could learn something .....? I am .All the time .
I suppose it is out of frustration , maybe dissapointment in oneself in being able to prove something as elusive as a concept , when you have others who are splitting hairs on a particular issue . It's of course yours to ask anything to your satisfaction , and mine to state emphatically that I don't like the way you go about it - and the moderators always speak up when the inmates have taken over the facility .
At the same time , someone else ( not you)has flown into the forum and aannovnced their religious sanctimoniousness in all it's glory . I'll admit it right away - I am the worst person to respond to those types because I come quite honestly by the inclination to slam down a point when it strikes me as incredibly stupid .Another person will respond to that person's post with a perfectly respectful , calm and deliberate , thoughtful , neutral positive answer , which I love to see , in all honesty .
I will use the analogy of a tribe taking down the beast as example : You have some that spear it , some that beat it on the head , and others that will tie it's legs with rope . At the top of it all is the one who has gotten the attention of the beast , talking calmly to it , not making fast movements , the most important part of the team effort . Without this one , the tribe would never have gotten close to the beast .
My point is this : it is the superior approach to calmly arrange oneself around another who attacks your knowledge , your group's interest and understanding . I am not convinced that everyone in the group should take the same approach . Not everyone should play the "Mr. Spock" role , so free of personal involvement and opinion . This is the kind of world whose people , at times , only understand the harsh word and only respond to being put "in place". I've had to accept that my approach is not well liked , and somewhat 'forbidden' . However , it is not forbidden for some polyanna religious amateur to waltz up and insult EVERONE who frequents this forum , the mission , Billy and all of the federation of humans who have decicated themselves to helping us , and we are expected to be benevolent and uninvolved personally . The Plejarens themselves are masters of their impulses and it's very impressive for earth humans to express the same type of responses as they , but
I'm not ashamed of my honesty . Please keep in mind that I'm not referring to our recent exchange , but many in the past that I've been involved in .Neither am I incapable of presenting a calm demeanor . Actually I have seen positive results from standing up and making someone face the music , especially when they are protected by the moderators because their behaviour is to be expected ; they come in here angry for the insinuation that Billy is "wiser than their object of blood worship" , etc.. Several of us will seek to answer the visitor for weeks and months with total venerabilty and kindness . It's the effective way .
I have done this at times , and I've kept from responding at all - other times .
In our exchange , I did try to control you , More than that , I succeeded . Notice you blood pressure rising right about now .
Oh , but of course , not you !
This is uneccesary , but you did attempt to blame me for controlling . See ? I admit it . I tried to control you . I don't mean to insult you , but it comes down to this : Ths IS a place to expand our consciousness , not a place to blindly accept facts . However , noone here is ever going to actually prove anything without a doubt , unless they can fly a beamship to your door , take you back in time , watch Nokodemjon's spirit join the Arahat Athersata with some type of device that ( hypothetically ) could do that ( I'm sure that a device like this doesn't exist ) , so unless you want to spend all of your (our) time locking horns and then playing nice with quiet disgruntled comments mingled in with it , you might just relegate yourself to get used to it . I will relegate myself to any judgements that come my way , also. I am by now , used to it . I will learn , give my opinion , state things as I see them , try to suppress the urge of sarcasm , be judged by others , judge myself in my sleep , and slowly , with everyone else , become a part of a great change of consciousness on this planet .
You exhibit intellect and I look forward to learning from your contributions .
I read your post , read it again , and so I will read it again now : did it : and I still can't follow your thoughts to the letter because it's really too detail oriented . I don't know what you expect - do you always require that everyone agrees ? I don't . In fact , when I state my opinion , I do so boldly . If I form a guilt around this instinct , then I throw my self backward in my own personal evolution by centuries .At least .
We have a saying here in Texas : ( a really popular place right now with the FIGU )
" Arguing with some people is like wrestling a pig - pretty soon you figure out that the pig likes it ".
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Joseph_emmanuel
Member
Post Number: 15
Registered: 05-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, August 10, 2003 - 02:20 am: |
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Mark
Yes, my real name is Joseph Emmanuel. And no I don't require that everyone agrees with me. But I do expect them to at least try to understand. |
Markc
Member
Post Number: 53
Registered: 06-2000
| | Posted on Sunday, August 10, 2003 - 07:54 pm: |
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I actually do understand what you've been saying Joseph.
No , I don't expect everyone to agree with what I'm saying ( about my approach for a certain thread), but you don't have to , because I wasn't trying to instruct you in your conduct .I drive my own .
Your soft words of nurturing are appropriate for you , as well as others , so they will be used , read by whoever they're intended for . I use the kind approach when called for ......
have a great day . Mark
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Howard
Member
Post Number: 36
Registered: 05-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 10:50 am: |
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"However , it is not forbidden for some polyanna religious amateur to waltz up and insult EVERONE who frequents this forum , the mission , Billy and all of the federation of humans who have decicated themselves to helping us , and we are expected to be benevolent and uninvolved personally ."
In what way have I INSULTED everyone? I think thats quite extraordinary. You can call me what ever you want Markc... Im just trying to have a fair debate here. Remember im just only 22 years old and only trying to learn, while presenting my views to you, which you think are so idiotic. You have a total loss of respect for other people. Do not delete this one to. And ofcourse people like to discus, i find you quote quite silly.
Howard,
It appears the remarks you have quoted are not directed at you. The only exchange between anyone in the section you have posted are between Mark C and Joseph Emmanuel. Please be clear on what you are attempting to communicate and to who. Thanks-Moderator |
Markc
Member
Post Number: 55
Registered: 06-2000
| | Posted on Friday, August 15, 2003 - 03:23 pm: |
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I address this to evryone who is following this thread .
If one going to use this forum , to regress into promotion/ expression of belief in 'jesus christ' dying on the cross to save humanity , then he is distracting the whole group from continuing on a path of learning about the subjects that are relevant to FIGU , the Plejarens , and the Mission . Of course , if one is of this beleif , and yet he is still interested in Billy's work , then he already weakens his commitment to the "sacrificial lamb" beleif , by his interest in FIGU .That is , if he already knows what Billy has stated time and time again .Anyone can become informed as to what the understood concepts are , without someone else having to educate him from the beginning , by reading the rest of the website ,and keeping opposing ,conflicting basic argumentative views to themselves . Anyone who thinks that their line of conversation will not be argued HERE on this website , is fooling themselves , and everyone else .
Others may choose to pander to and nurture everyone who comes here in this way , but it is my right to indicate that such a person is disrupting the normal progressive exchange and discussion that is informative to those who already have agreed to discuss these matters , and to develop understanding of the teachings and information in this context .
Someone else may believe that the whole forum area is open to these kind of "off topic" religious statements , but there is a Skeptic's area for those . Anyone who wants to devote their time to consultation with those persons , can do so . It should be kept in mind , that if others can read those posts , they can comment on them within moderator's guidelines , and if one disagrees with
the moderator , he should take it up with any or all of them . They do not have to let my posts be seen . It's their choice . However , if one is to email someone privately to someone who agrees to do so , then they can exchange without interruption . If someone has already expressed that they don't wish to exchange with them privately , then such rejection should indicate to this person that his public posts can be observed , disagreed and argued with at will ,even if incoming criticism is not to their liking .
Every time someone blasts off into religious rhetoric and dogma , they should understand that anyone else has the right to his own honesty about the matter . I am in the correct venue for my held opinion .If such honesty categorically insults someone by description , I am within my right to do so .It is my opinion , and I did not broadcast it at any sectarian venue , church gathering , or worship website .
I could be spending time discussing ideas about the consciousness blocks , science , or any other subjects native to this forum , but I can't , because this is an important subject of communication that should be agreed on one way or the other , or else , argued about contantly and endlessly without any standard or format observed .
Age is of no importance in this case . If one agrees to engage in conversations with adults , then he will be treated like an adult until he proves otherwise .
Now , I can't apologise to anyone for having their feathers ruffled if they have put their
"turkey feathers on the chopping block " . My comments may seem somewhat rude , but they are in response to someone else's rudeness , obstinance and disregard for the progressive learning nature of this website , and their insistance that everyone stops to tend to a true baby , infant , and careless invader to an otherwise true exchange of ideas and information . I obviously am not afraid of disaproval to something that I believe in strongly , and I will not back down from my opinion one jota. Nor am I concerned with someone's dislike of me personally . Anyone's liking of me can take a 'flying leap' when it comes to emphasising what needs to be said .
These "dive bombings" to this forum are nothing new . The moderators take priority in fairness , and so may permit impudence and imprudence by visitors who want to insult Billy and his Mission . The moderators cannot be faulted for this , because it is in total fairness .It's part of the job , and one that they do in complete competence .
What comes in return to those dive bombers is their own respojnsibilty ."If you can't take the heat , step back into the shade ".
I certainly do agree in being kind , in general , and under normal circumstances . However , in order to make a point , a strong stance will be adhered to ,and if I hold this opinion alone , so be it .
Mark Campbell |
Howard
Member
Post Number: 39
Registered: 05-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 18, 2003 - 04:36 pm: |
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I wonder why you say that i am hurting Billys mission, and that i am a "dive bomber". Quite unfair. If I am disrupting the normal conversation between the FIGU people, I find that also incredible, how can a person who are only critical destroy others way of communicating? this seems sectarian to me. And that doesnt sound good in FIGUs eyes I would think.
I see you people discussing other things fine, and i would gladly take part in that also. If you believe in this case so strongly, whats the point of discussing it with other people? I think that would be necceseary to inform people about FIGUs teachings, and opinions.
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Markc
Member
Post Number: 66
Registered: 06-2000
| | Posted on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 01:39 am: |
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hello Prometheus;
I was having a conversation about the same thing . Someone just assumed that I believe everything that I'm told because I am not constantly detracting every little thing that's stated by Billy. Is it OK if I don't care how many years until the universe collapses on itself ? YES .
I couldn't verify it one way or another . It's interesting , and I enjoy it , but others on these internet forums assume far too much about what one like me believes . Others are free to come here and praise jesus or charlie chaplin , for all I care .
I have learned that it's not worth my energy to respond . I can ignore it . Other UFO contactees , whether they are real or not , is not for me to ponder . Others choose to believe in those subjects that don't affect me . There have been some hard feelings between people about this very subject and now it's clear to me that noone makes any progress whatsoever when they counter each other in an argumentative stance .It makes the arguer more important than the issue or what may be perceived as important .
What's important is to regard each person as being important enough to respect mutually .Whether they agree with you or not .This drives some people crazy. They simply cannot accept the fact that most people who's opinion corresponds with the relevant information on the website will not bend to their opinion. People are funny !
If you take the low road and accuse me of believing everything blindly , I would call that a cheap shot , the last resort of a desperate person(s) who just can't make his argument . If I agreed with them , now THAT would be conformist and weak minded.
This means being able to let someone post about jesus or adamski or chanelling or even that there are no ufo's that exist , and those people should respect another person's view that jesus didn't die on the cross for you sins , that he had a different purpose , and that adamski didn't have enough evidence to convince me ,( sorry) , and that channelling sounds to me to be self-delusional .
Does it mean that I haven't thought about these things in my own estimation ?
Does it mean that I haven't had experiences and insights that have already led me to conclusions about these subjects ?
And it reads to be quite over-handed if I happen to agree with the man who started this organisation called FIGU .
Of course the loser's desperate tool is to call one like me gullible ; that I believe everything that I am told . I recommend a colon - cleansing.
Instead , I came here to learn about what Billy Meier has said , and if I choose to make my visits here about that , then I am complying with a live and let live concept.
Some others it seems , show me that their goal won't be acheived until everyone agrees with them , and they have to fight Billy on every little detail . I wonder why they bother coming here at all .
If I was like them , I could say that I think that they don't believe anything Billy has said , and that they only come here to be contrary and argue endlessly .
It seems that the only time I ever read their posts , that they only detract and challenge every little thing .
Logic indicates that they believe not ONE thing . Of course , that isn't true , right ?
People get a little cheeky and villify each other .It's popular at this time to hate those of us who don't contradict Billy on this website .
It's out of respect , and also because he does make sense , and I do get it .
I don't really fault those who don't get it .
Does it mean that I don't have an analytical mind and think intensely about things ?
Anyone that really knows me knows that I am constantly in intense thought abut something .
But , oh , excuse me if I don't ponder for a moment about channelling and other specific ufo contactees , because it doesn't interest me .Maybe if they had something more substantial , I would . But their information just goes so far , and noone budges on the matter , and it just goes on and on and on ; someone's still not happy with Billy , and you can almost see the steam from their collar ( in their post) Oh , well ....what can be done for them now ? Ok , I'll say that they seem like nice UFO cases . Very nice . Nice pictures . Nice concepts , very intelligent . OK . Fine .Happy now ? Show us some new photos then ! We all love those .
It's an impudent assumption on someone's part to accuse me of this .
After several weeks or months of the same routine of detracting Billy and the Plejarens , excuse the hell out of me if I respond to their posts as if they were a babbling idiot . That would not make me a mindless follower , but a self-will who's himself enough to be abrasive and even wrong in his actions ; it may go against what Billy teaches in the lessons of the spirit .Respecting Billy does not tie my hands behind my back in timidity .
I have to allow myself to express what's on my mind , but I find that I go through an ebb and tide of being patient and accepting and then also chomping on your leg as you pass by me squeeking out your criticisms of the FIGU.
It seems to me that many people who read this find my approach completely out of line . I don't criticise their approach . I attack the attackers .
If they don't like me ,then I am effective .
and Howard you are like a little sparrow who attacks the eagles nest .When the Eagle knocks you to the ground you land in an auto parts salvage yard . I am like the dog who lives in the yard .
Bow wow little sparrow.
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George
Member
Post Number: 20
Registered: 03-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 01:33 pm: |
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Markc
The 'Real Trick' here is to make this soup actually taste good if not great.
Regards
George |
Howard
Member
Post Number: 55
Registered: 05-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 06:38 pm: |
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Hehe, quite funny Markc. Eventhough you as always are kind of rude. If not this sentence is deleted also... I cant see why I have been knocked to the ground. You just cant come up with reasonable arguments. It seems like you have some kind of an "upper limit" of religious tolerance, and tolerance of other peoples opinions. I believe in a lot of Billys teachings, but not all, just few parts of it, not at all as much as you say. You are telling lies. I wonder why YOU bother coming here at all since you dont have the ability to discuss with others in a mature way, i find it quite hopeless in fact.
When you are talking about how billys (biblical) teachings makes sense to you, every human who has not had the taste of a God will eventually always try to find logic in every sense, both spiritually and materially. What they just cant see is that the highest spiritual "intelligence" is right in front of their nose. Its all about experience. Now you obviously are quite singleminded in your thoughts, so nothing will ever affect you in any way with your "belief" in extra-terrestrial spiritual intelligences "proof".
And I really dont understand why you people can be infact so completely gullible to believe the Talmud. IT is SO far away from the bible, the apostels could never have written what they wrote if they hadnt learned any of it from jesus/immanuel. Its so obvious. How should anyone be able to remember his prayer? and his techings? its hopeless. If you are so intelectual as you apear to say you are, you should seriously consider your view on the talmud. I think this was a good statement by Åke Eldberg ; "Talmud Immanuel. This book is the work of 'Billy' Eduard Albert Meier who was born in Bülach, Switzerland in 1937. His rather obvious Biblical hoax has all the usual characteristics: no manuscript is available, the text only exists in modern translations, the "find story" is unlikely, and it contains anachronisms and obvious "prophecies after the event". I find it interesting because it's such a typical and predictable late-20th century Biblical hoax." I suggest you read his website thoroughly, http://home.swipnet.se/corbie/Fuskwww/index.html, and you will find how gullible you have really been.
Howard |
Markc
Member
Post Number: 69
Registered: 06-2000
| | Posted on Monday, September 01, 2003 - 06:00 pm: |
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You make my point , Howard .
You are like a vegetarian who constantly speaks against eating meat to a group of meat-eaters .
I hope this analogy doesn't confuse you ; I wasn't implying that this is about eating meat .
But Sparrow Soup , George , is on the menu today .
How many times do I have to say it ?
You are the rude one , who insists on making your own ignorance the over- importance .
You put so much effort into countering the very subject of which this website is dedicated .
When will you realize that you won't convince anyone here of your misguided beliefs ?
You don't know what I believe or don't believe , like other detractors who's only quick and effortless low blow is to describe me and others who respect Billy as "gullible".
That I would give you any response at all is respect enough .
Pity for you if the world and every one in it doesn't conform to your spoiled and twisted concept ; when you get out into the world you will see how uncompromising it really is .
Someone else on this forum has recognised a seeker of truth in you , but I don't .
What I see in you is an elephant hunter in an elephant yard who still can't find one .
It's not my problem or responsibilty to guide you , be patient with you and counter every one of your statements with reasonable , quote for quote research .
You will forgive me when I say that I don't owe you that .
If you don't seek it and find it on your own , then you are a fool of a fool wasting his efforts .
Others have very patiently walked with you through every thought , and their contribution in a format of variety and expansive approach is very kind , as well as friendly and loving .
What I offer is the same response that YOU would get if you stood up in a mathematics lecture and exclaimed repeatedly that Albert Einstein was wrong in most of his findings .
Let's just say that you don't 'get it' , and though you call me a liar , you are the one who has claimed earlier in this thread that you were trying to learn .
That doesn't make you a liar , but a hypocrite .You vaccilate from one direction to another like a severed sparrow wing in a .......I don't know ....., river of soup .
You might not realize it , but what you call rudeness is your own , returned to you .
Do not expect me to change my tone with you .If you find it funny , then that's good ; it's good comedy as well .
I hope you have a good laugh , then maybe you will remember what I've said .
What you don't realize , is that if I've given you any of my time at all , I have given you something . If you find it unfriendly , it doesn't mean that I'm being unfriendly .
If someone pulls you out of a river from drowning and hurts your arm so that it's sore for a month , does that mean that the rescuer tried to hurt you ?
Use your mind to think ,for once in yuir life Howard .
Use it for something else than fighting people who have good reason for showing up here in this forum .
You have a reason also ; or else you wouldn't be here . A for yuir criticism of my approach ; I can tell that you value it most of all .
You're addicted to it , or else you would not respond to my posts .
You are compelled to come back to this website over and over . When your friends ask you to go to church , you will refuse , but visit figu.org instead .
Congratulations .
Enjoy it .
So Learn if you're going to learn , learn the hard way if it's the only way . On your path to understanding don't complain if you meet me on on my terms .
LEARN |
Der_beobachter
Member
Post Number: 9
Registered: 05-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 02, 2003 - 12:38 pm: |
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Dear MarkC,
Shaking the Dust from our feets. Let it be.
MarkC you wisely said:
>>Someone else on this forum has recognised a seeker of truth in you ,but I don't . What I see in you is an elephant hunter in an elephant yard who still can't find one .It's not my problem or responsibilty to guide you , be patient with you and counter every one of your statements with reasonable, quote for quote research . You will forgive me when I say that I don't owe you that . If you don't seek it and find it on your own , then you are a fool of a fool wasting his efforts .<<
Hmmm....I liked that elephant hunter part Mark, this person is in the middle of the biggest herd of elephants on Earth but actually he cannot even see the smallest tip of the tail a single elephant who is almost to tread on his body smashing him because the guy is unaware of it and is looking to the wrong side of the yard. This person is completely brainwashed by misunderstandings, fake teachings, sons-of-gods, virgin marys and all church lies like the rest of humankind and is trying to convice us (to no avail at all) on his strong and UNREAL beliefs that WE ALL know are untruths. I tried to give Howard a helping hand but he did not care about it, he is completely blindened by the darkness of christianism's ignorance and by its false and wrongful philosophy of life. I am sure he had read my previous postings at "Skeptic's Corner" regarding wise, diligent and logical research step-by-step but he is not interested on it like many others all around the world those foolish, pathetic pseudo-scholars and dumb experts and "professionals" and besides all of them "christian" ones like it mentions on that website Howard gave the link above with their worthless diplomas and their worthless golden graduation rings around their fingers but at the same time are unable to see the tip of their own noses. I have met with thousands of persons like him and guess what they do? They say they are "praying to christ" for my "lost soul" that my "spirit" is going to "hell" :-)))) an inexistent "realm" , it makes me laugh to tears!!! Total Lack of Understanding from their part. :-)))) because real Hell is what religions and wrong use of Science made to this planet.
What does it matter if there is no original TJ's manuscript to those stupid "professional christian scholars" to compare? And if there was one would you understand of "believe" it anyway? I am sure you would not. Howard there is CODE interwoven in Talmud Jmmanuel and THIS CODE CANNOT be Unlocked by foolish and blind "professional scholars". You cannot UNDERSTAND it as I mentioned before. It is useless to these dumb experts in ancient manuscripts just by taking a magnifying glass and examine a manuscript and tell if it is true or not. As I see by all your previous postings ( you claim to be studying or visiting this Website for 2 years by now 2 WORTHLESS years of Useless study you have) YOU WERE NOT ABLE to Unlock this "hidden" CODE contained in Talmud Jmmanuel and many other texts that were written by Mr. Billy Meier himself with the help of Higher Spirit-Forms and Plejarans and other extraterrestrial human beings. I will NOT explain to you what is this Code about I cannot explain it to you. You will have to figure it out by yourself alone and nobody here can teach you how. No "professional scholar" can Unlock it if they only use their pathetic, irrational, Material and foolish religious and "christian" way of thinking and their wrong way to face life...Real Creational Life and Real Knowledge they unfortunately do not possess trying to prove the Knowledge contained in TJ is fake comparing it with the LIES of the bible and NT in one hand and a microscope or a magnifying glass on the other.
In my SOLE and humble opinion there are those who in reality possess copies of it, or parts of it (TJ), AS IS, whole texts hidden somewhere else and they know TJ is for real Howard therefore they (do not ask me who they are because you know who) try to continue their lies and they do not want to lose their rich meanings to making money at the cost of the ignorance and spiritual enslavement of their followers with their fairy tales such as "star-of-Bethlehem" "virgin-mary", "son-of-god", "saviour of humankind" and other foolish, stupid and illogical teachings like that. There are more things behind all these lies than you can dream of Howard.
Therefore dear MarkC to complement your words above I will add these quotings of Wisdom from the Truthness of Talmud of Jmmanuel that will fit perfectly to persons like Howard if they are "able" to think for themselves, I think they cannot.
**************
TJ 19:14. "Search for the meaning and truth in my teachings. Since I am human like you, I, too, have had to search and perceive.
TJ 19:15. "Since I am human like you and have gathered my knowledge, you are also capable of learning, searching, perceiving and knowing; in so doing you may grasp and observe the laws of Creation.
TJ 19:16. "If your neighbor errs and embraces a falsified teaching, go and reveal their error in private.
TJ 19:17. "If they listen to you, you have won your neighbor.
TJ 19:18. "If your neighbor does not listen and continues to be enslaved by a lack of understanding, leave that person be, for they are not worthy of your teaching, once you have done everything possible.
TJ 19:19. "It is better to let an unreasonable person walk on the path of misery than to bring confusion to one's own consciousness.
TJ 19:20. "Truly I say to you, the heavens will collapse before an unreasonable person can be taught reason; therefore, beware of such persons.
TJ 19:21. "Sow the seeds of wisdom on fertile soil where they can germinate,
TJ 19:22. "because only the germinated seed will bring forth fruit:'
TJ 10:17. "And if someone will not take you in or listen to your words, leave that house or that city and shake the dust from your feet.
TJ 10:18. "Truly, I say to you, do not stay in such places, because they are abodes of the ignorant and evil; people there will not recognize the words of truth and knowledge.
TJ 10:24. "Throughout the world there will be wailing and chattering of teeth when the blood flows from all those who have made my teachings of wisdom and knowledge into false teachings, and when the blood flows from all of those who, in their false belief and through evil seduction, believe and advocate these false teachings ?teachings which certainly ARE NOT MINE.
TJ 23:48. "Therefore the words of truth will be harsh and without mercy, and many a person will seethe in rage because of them.
TJ 23:49. "The harsh words of truth themselves will be the instructive judgment and penalty for all those who live according to false teachings and degrade the wisdom of the spirit."
***********
But to persons like Howard the words above has no meaning at all.
Howard when you look at a cemetery...what do you see there? Crosses everywhere.....The Cross represents DEATH Howard it is a symbol of Death, darkness, ignorance, wars, blood, grief, sorrows and sadness NOT LIFE!. The symbol says all for itself. Just observe....it is all around yourself. I see there is nothing we can do for you then if you do not understand what Wisdom or Knowledge is.
Quoting the same words of Knowledge from MarC to you Howard:
"So Learn if you're going to learn , learn the hard way if it's the only way ... If you don't seek it and find it on your own , then you are a fool of a fool wasting his efforts ." (by MarkC)
Science, Logic, Reasoning, Thinking, Knowledge,Wisdom, Harmony...True Creational Love is the path. to Understand True Creational Life.
Peace in Knowing
and LEARN how to THINK first Howard I am sorry to say that and you will not LEARN how if you still keep on reading and quoting the "bible" and christian fake philosophy as "source" of Knowledge because IT DEFINITIVELY IS NOT!
Der Beobachter Edelweiß
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Markc
Member
Post Number: 71
Registered: 06-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 02, 2003 - 11:47 pm: |
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Thanks for your comments , Jose . I appreciate the fine job of finding specific quotes from the TJ . That is quite amazing that you know the book so well .Very well said .
I think that really says it all ; there is nothing we can do for this young man , but I'm sure he will pop up with the same monotony again and again . There is nothing more for us to say .
When I encounter someone who is so delusional about this subject , I naturally don't try to convince them of anything , because it is impossible .
TJ 19:18. "If your neighbor does not listen and continues to be enslaved by a lack of understanding, leave that person be, for they are not worthy of your teaching, once you have done everything possible.
so ist es , Mark
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Joseph_emmanuel
Member
Post Number: 31
Registered: 05-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 03, 2003 - 12:23 am: |
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Der_beobachter and MarkC
Why do you persist in attacking Howard? Why do you insist on making your posts to him personal? You are supposed to be adults. But instead you are like children ganging up on someone with whom you have a problem. Just let him be if you can’t reply intelligently. Whether he chooses to understand or not, it is not for you to make him understand, nor is it for you to judge him the way you do, since you have not yet removed the error in your own thinking, which is as great as his. Please remember that this section is supposed to be for those of us who would like to reach some kind of an agreement, not for those of us who want to battle it out with each other, and who, therefore, make a mockery of this forum’s attempt for mutual understanding. Please also remember that this headache to which you are clearly addicted is on the whole utterly pointless, and would be better for you to retain your own peace of mind in self-contemplation than to disturb it with a few choice words directed at another. |
Norm
Member
Post Number: 613
Registered: 02-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 03, 2003 - 06:25 am: |
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So Howard you are saying Billy is a lier. Ok if he's lying about the TJ then he must be lying about other things. If that's the way you view this case. I must ask you. Why are you here wasting your time? |
Jeedi
Member
Post Number: 27
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 07:52 pm: |
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Yeah Howard, heard this before from you. So what is new in the garden?
Maybe you can quote some examples from your studies? Try to build a good solid argument instead of babbling "time share sales" rhetoric.
I think you can be great compost (Bantha Poodu) for flowers. So please try harder.
Cheers,
nobody |
Norm
Member
Post Number: 634
Registered: 02-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 07:26 pm: |
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Howard, Either you really are confused or your joking. I love the way you have turned everything Meier said inside out & backwards to suite your needs. Nice try!
"christianity is the most expanding religion in the world."
Wrong Islam is! |
Der_beobachter
Member
Post Number: 17
Registered: 05-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 07, 2004 - 03:27 pm: |
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Howard maybe this will refresh your mind about my vision of christianism.
First in German Language
- Hiermit bin ich am Schluss und spreche mein Urtheil. Ich verurtheile das Christenthum, ich erhebe gegen die christliche Kirche die furchtbarste aller Anklagen, die je ein Ankläger in den Mund genommen hat. Sie ist mir die höchste aller denkbaren Corruptionen, sie hat den Willen zur letzten auch nur möglichen Corruption gehabt. Die christliche Kirche liess Nichts mit ihrer Verderbniss unberührt, sie hat aus jedem Werth einen Unwerth, aus jeder Wahrheit eine Lüge, aus jeder Rechtschaffenheit eine Seelen-Niedertracht gemacht. Man wage es noch, mir von ihren "humanitären" Segnungen zu reden! Irgend einen Nothstand abschaffen gierig wider ihre tiefste Nützlichkeit, - sie lebte von Nothständen, sie schuf Nothstände, um sich zu verewigen ... Der Wurm der Sünde zum Beispiel: mit diesem Nothstande hat erst die Kirche die Menschheit bereichert! - Die "Gleichheit der Seelen vor Gott", diese Falschheit, dieser Vorwand für die rancunes aller Niedriggesinnten, dieser Sprengstoff von Begriff, der endlich Revolution, moderne Idee und Niedergangs-Princip der ganzen Gesellschafts-Ordnung geworden ist - ist christlicher Dynamit... "Humanitäre" Segnungen des Christenthums! Aus der humanitas einen Selbst-Widerspruch, eine Kunst der Selbstschändung, einen Willen zur Lüge um jeden Preis, einen Widerwillen, eine Verachtung aller guten und rechtschaffnen Instinkte herauszuzüchten! - Das wären mir Segnungen des Christenthums! - Der Parasitismus als einzige Praxis der Kirche; mit ihrem Bleichsuchts-, ihrem "Heiligkeits"-Ideale jedes Blut, jede Liebe, jede Hoffnung zum Leben austrinkend; das Jenseits als Wille zur Verneinung jeder Realität; das Kreuz als Erkennungszeichen für die unterirdischste Verschwörung, die es je gegeben hat, - gegen Gesundheit, Schönheit, Wohlgerathenheit, Tapferkeit, Geist, Güte der Seele, gegen das Leben selbst ...
Diese ewige Anklage des Christenthums will ich an alle Wände schreiben, wo es nur Wände giebt, - ich habe Buchstaben, um auch Blinde sehend zu machen ... Ich heisse das Christenthum den Einen grossen Fluch, die Eine grosse innerlichste Verdorbenheit, den Einen grossen Instinkt der Rache, dem kein Mittel giftig, heimlich, unterirdisch, klein genug ist, - ich heisse es den Einen unsterblichen Schandfleck der Menschheit ...
Und man rechnet die Zeit nach dem dies nefastus, mit dem dies Verhängniss anhob, - nach dem ersten Tag des Christenthums! Warum nicht lieber nach seinem letzten? Nach Heute? - Umwerthung aller Werthe! ...
Friedrich Nietzsche: Der Antichrist
Complete Translation of text above:
With this I come to a conclusion and pronounce my judgment. I condemn Christianity; I bring against the Christian church the most terrible of all the accusations that an accuser has ever had in his mouth. It is, to me, the greatest of all imaginable corruptions; it seeks to work the ultimate corruption, the worst possible corruption. The Christian church has left nothing untouched by its depravity; it has turned every value into worthlessness, and every truth into a lie, and every integrity into baseness of soul. Let any one dare to speak to me of its "humanitarian" blessings! Its deepest necessities range it against any effort to abolish distress; it lives by distress; it creates distress to make itself immortal. . . . For example, the worm of sin: it was the church that first enriched mankind with this misery!--The "equality of souls before God"--this fraud, this pretext for the rancunes of all the base-minded--this explosive concept, ending in revolution, the modern idea, and the notion of overthrowing the whole social order--this is Christian dynamite. . . . The "humanitarian" blessings of Christianity forsooth! To breed out of humanitas a self-contradiction, an art of self-pollution, a will to lie at any price, an aversion and contempt for all good and honest instincts! All this, to me, is the "humanitarianism" of Christianity!--Parasitism as the only practice of the church; with its anaemic and "holy" ideals, sucking all the blood, all the love, all the hope out of life; the beyond as the will to deny all reality; the cross as the distinguishing mark of the most subterranean conspiracy ever heard of,--against health, beauty, well-being, intellect, kindness of soul--against life itself. . . .
This eternal accusation against Christianity I shall write upon all walls, wherever walls are to be found--I have letters that even the blind will be able to see. . . . I call Christianity the one great curse, the one great intrinsic depravity, the one great instinct of revenge, for which no means are venomous enough, or secret, subterranean and small enough,--I call it the one immortal blemish upon the human race. . . .
And mankind reckons time from the dies nefastus when this fatality befell--from the first day of Christianity!--Why not rather from its last?--From today?--The transvaluation of all values! . . .
Friedrich Nietzsche: The Antichrist
I hope you will understand Howard.
"I just wanted you to know who I am...."
Der Beobachter Edelweiß
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Markc
Member
Post Number: 112
Registered: 06-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 07, 2004 - 09:31 pm: |
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Perfectly said , Der B ! And to think I only knew Nietzsche for his paintings .......*
(* joke)
Mark Campbell
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Edward
Member
Post Number: 359
Registered: 05-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 08:41 am: |
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Hi Dear Howie....
I see you can not "FIGU-it-out" yet....lonesome Truth Seeker!
I hope there will come a time that you Can "FIGU-it-out"!
May the Teachings of FIGU help you "FIGU-it-out"..One Day.
Pleasant Seeking...dear Howie.
Edward. |
Anonymous
Member
Post Number: 18
Registered: 09-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 01:20 pm: |
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How fortunate it is that the three least constructive contributors on this forum have their posts accepted. Clearly, as far as the three Stooges are concerned, the Mission is about undermining others with whom one disagrees. |
Anonymous
Member
Post Number: 19
Registered: 09-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 02:17 pm: |
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I am posting my message here because I believe that when people communicate with each other they should do so respectfully and mutually. Those who would rather indulge in their personality for the sake of being true to themselves I find to be shallow and having nothing of importance to say. They are in short a complete waste of time. I am not going to hide behind words. I am referring to Der Beobachter, Mark Campbell and Edward. It seems to me you fail to live up to the standards of being adults. Your posts, though directed at Howard, I find offensive and belittling. What is more this is not the only occasion when they have had nothing whatsoever to do with the subject in question. You seem to think it amusing encouraging one another to undermine a fellow member who in my opinion does more thinking than the three of you put together. I would, therefore, like to put it to the moderators of this forum to please enforce the so-called Netiquette with a bit more discipline so that we keep to the topic. The three recent posts contributed by these individuals in the section What is the Mission? should not have been accepted, seeing as they are neither constructive nor related to whatever the mission is about.
That is all I have to say on the matter. No doubt you will try to justify yourselves.
JEC
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Jeedi
Member
Post Number: 29
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 04:21 pm: |
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Hello Der B,
From my study of religion vs. relegeon, I don't know who is more religious, Howard or you. Agreed you have found truth, but that does not mean fighting against any particular formal religion. Let them have their silly crosses in peace, focus on the Truth. Evolve beyond religion not against it.
Mr. Campbell, I'm sure your Jewish dentist is the best in the business, how can you support such nonsense against Christians?
Mr. Der B, I gave you the one star first...and followed up with another.
Regards,
Anthony
"Racism, Neo-Nazism, Extremism, and Anti-Semitism" -- Billy Meier from Figu site: "It is our conviction that free speech finds its limits where people are reviled, threatened and even killed because they belong to another faith or race, among other things. This includes all of those people and organizations who, under the guise of "fighting against anti-Semitism and racism, etc.", try to isolate other groups of people, thereby aiming at stopping measures that serve to benefit all of humankind..." |
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