| Author |
Message |
   
Michael
Member
Post Number: 613
Registered: 10-2000
| | Posted on Friday, January 11, 2008 - 11:06 pm: | 
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Archandel,
I think that many of your questions are answered in the new film, THe Silent Revolution of Truth (www.theyfly.com).
Michael Horn
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Archandel
New member
Post Number: 3
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Friday, January 11, 2008 - 11:30 pm: |
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Alan, to clarify, you may have recommended Contact based on my first question about analysis of photos such as the Hasenbol-Langenberg series featuring the variation 4 craft.
I know Dilettoso analyzed photos of that era and found no evidence of hoaxing, but my question more related to whether skeptics have put forward their own analysis of anything (other than the WCUFO series or any photos that have always been acknowledged to be models, such as those shown being photographed in Contact) and shown that any of them were hoaxed (i.e. any of the '75-'76 photos that originally brought so much attention to the case).
I'm interested because I'm wondering if any of the older (mid '70's) photos that appear "rock solid" have been successfully attacked by skeptics who can show serious evidence (rather than shrill claims) of hoaxing. |
Alan
Member
Post Number: 133
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, January 12, 2008 - 02:46 am: |
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Hi Archandel,
Thats good if you've already seen "Contact". I only recommended that one because it is good starting off point. Next one I suggest after that one is the video that Michael recommended you watch. The Silent Revolution of Truth is an excellent Meier video. I loved it. |
Michael
Member
Post Number: 614
Registered: 10-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, January 12, 2008 - 10:12 am: |
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Please also read: http://www.theyfly.com/newsflash5/tree.htm for more information and background on the skeptical challenge.
This includes information about perhaps the most definitive failure of the skeptics, i.e. the claims made by Jeff Ritzmann that he could duplicate Meier's UFO photos, films and video and his failed attempts to do so.
Michael Horn
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Archandel
New member
Post Number: 4
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, January 12, 2008 - 01:05 pm: |
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Michael, thanks for the link (I've read the page) and your video looks to be interesting so I may pursue that. I've also heard some of you on C2C w/ George Noory.
I'm taking it from your response that you know of no one who claims to have "debunked" the '75-'76 photos (or can prove that they have). If this is the case then I would still call it a fairly solid case in terms of proof on Meier's part.
I was privy to some of the screechy exchanges on ATS re: the Meier case and I felt I was really witnessing an encapsulation of how this case has been received by skeptics.
There was just a wall of indifference to anything but the most (superficially) problematic evidence and total unwillingness to look into things such as accurate technical statements, a wealth of stirring philosophical and cosmological information, various eyewitness testimony, and hundreds of photographs that show no proven signs of deception.
Still, one must acknowledge that some aspects, such as the toy like ray weapon and the dinosaur images, complicate matters considerably, and give the naysayers about enough fuel to get from here to the Pleiades (I'm having a chuckle right now because the spell checker on this message board doesn't recognize the word "Pleiades"  ).
One thing that occurred to me as a possible explanation for some of the questionable elements (having studied the reported history of the Plejaren mission to some degree) is that it seems not out of the question that the Plejarens themselves might have been the source of "faked" evidence in some cases, simply because they seemed to have indicated to Billy at certain points that they were not happy with the way their presence was being reacted to (I'm getting this from Randolph Winters).
If so, this might have prompted them to "put the skids" to the effectiveness of the evidence by peppering it with elements that skeptics could grab a hold of and run with.
This might also explain why they never allowed themselves to be photographed, and refrained from orchestrating more convincing demonstrations, such as allowing themselves to be seen during the day by larger groups of people, or performing maneuvers that would be impossible to fake, such as emerging from the distance and flying directly over Billy as he filmed them with the super 8 camera. Just a thought. |
Indi
Member
Post Number: 141
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, January 12, 2008 - 05:31 pm: |
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(I'm having a chuckle right now because the spell checker on this message board doesn't recognize the word "Pleiades" ).
Hi
I don't know if your are referring to the search engine when you say 'spell checker', but if you are, then I am not sure which one you are using because when I put that word in there are lots of hits -- Especially if you put in "Pleiad" which will give you other forms of the word as well and amounts to 300 hits.
If there is a spell checker then I am not aware of it - so please disregard my comment :-)
in peace
Robjna |
Archandel
Member
Post Number: 5
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, January 12, 2008 - 10:34 pm: |
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Another aspect of the case that I find compelling is the offshoot of the George Green case. Some people were tossing uninformed accusations around that Billy's motivation was to get rich (which is absurd if you've followed his life at all), but few could attach such a motive to Green.
Somehow I don't think you go through a successful career as an investment banker, then make millions off of real estate, and then your next big idea to increase your fortune is to start claiming that people from a star 400 light years away follow your car in their flying saucer and telepathically instruct you to spread their message about saving mankind from the New World Order.
My logic leads me to conclude one of two things: either Green is telling the truth as he has experienced it, or he at some point he completely lost his marbles. |
The_original_dave
Member
Post Number: 176
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 05:56 am: |
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Archantel,
''This might also explain why they never allowed themselves to be photographed, and refrained from orchestrating more convincing demonstrations, such as allowing themselves to be seen during the day by larger groups of people, or performing maneuvers that would be impossible to fake, such as emerging from the distance and flying directly over Billy as he filmed them with the super 8 camera. Just a thought.''
The reason why the Plejaran do not allow there picture to be taken is because earth people's vibrations are still rather negative and if someone with negative feelings towards the PLejaran or anyone else focuses on the picture they'll be sending those negative vibrations to the person in the picture.
The P's have done daytime presentations/appearances for plenty of witnesses in the past. So you don't think dissapearing from mid sight and zooming away at light speed is impressive?
As for Billy's videos. I suppose you know he didn't have the money to buy a better camera right? Yes he did film a Beamship flying from the distance coming his way. He has also filmed one flying over him. There's also a video of Billy sitting on a hill with a beamship hovering about 10 or 15 meters over head. |
Michael
Member
Post Number: 615
Registered: 10-2000
| | Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 06:51 pm: |
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Archandel,
First, there is no "George Green case", although there may, and should, be a legal one against him for stealing and plagiarizing the Talmud Jmmanuel. Second, if you do a little research, you'll find that he is thoroughly regarded as a charlatan and fraud by Meier, FIGU and the Plejaren.
And it should occur to you that his motives may not be strictly financial but perhaps propelled by some form of personality disorder, tendencies towards pathological lying, etc.
Michael Horn
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Alan
Member
Post Number: 135
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 07:35 pm: |
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Indi you have to activate the "spell checker" function in your user names profile for it to start working. A very handy function, especially in light of that many people from other non english speaking countries read this forum by way of software translators. If a word isn't spelled right, it cannot be translated. |
Mehraein62
Member
Post Number: 8
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Monday, January 14, 2008 - 09:24 pm: |
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Hello to All Friends
I recently studied some FIGU and Billy ,s work and I deeply admit them as any body enough serious can find a lot of interesting subjects.
but I also have some questions that I hope could receive responses to any interested member friends.
1- I feel some time the same words , culture and expectations of the Old Religions ( Christianity , Jew , Islam , Zoroastrian) are in the Billy,s text also, as follow: there is only one prophet, by some resions receiving the message can not pass to any body els, after him certainly there is no way to connect or get any thing from the contact sources! , any attempt and any allegation must reject and would be in vain!, apparently several resion made for this prepares and I don't understand if the teaching is very seriously vital for the man future on earth so why not more even public contact?!, although the Billy,s work indeed very awakening and remarkable from the advanced material and spiritual point of view but there are also some confusing elements ( unfortunately a lot) contradictory and incompatible , remained without good enough responses or explanation that this take us naturally to and open the door for any false interpretation in future. The only reliable source is FIGU , Billy and P,s works ( of course respectable and useful for all human race on earth) , with this Only , and of course reject and deny all the Old believe and religious works ( also I myself agree and admit the point to the end), and with not to find most resion and not accessible persons to make more clear or explain , A New cult if unwillingly will be shape and would lock the future Minds to the new truth , as did all the Old cults , am i right?
2- follow the first question i haven't seen any explanation about serious doubts that already have presented to the TJ finding way, its text and Isa Rashid!!,
3- if it is determining and serious (even for universe also) to have earth human getting rid of the all false and deceive religious behaviours ( that I agree also by full heart), why not openly enough by our P,s friends?..why with hidden way from the world eyes?...P,s don't intend make another (new) religion for the earthlings ?
4- also I accept i need to study and learn much more about Mr. Billy and his lovely hard works for all of us and I hope he remain healthy good and lucky between us as much as he can and provide us more and more this excellent materials. I love and eagerly waiting to have Friends ,s advised and leading. comments of any concerned welcomed.
Best regard
Best Regards
Salome
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Archandel
Member
Post Number: 6
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Monday, January 14, 2008 - 10:11 pm: |
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Michael,
Re: George Green, he was with Stevens in the video where I saw him demo (at some kind of convention) the "perpetual rotation" magnetic device and he was talking to someone off camera he called Methusalem. Could this have been filmed before some falling out between Meier and Green?
Is it FIGU's position that Green was never embraced by the Plejaren through Meier, as he claims? If not, then what was his relationship with Meier in the past?
Has Randy Winters also been "excommunicated" or is he still accepted to any extent by those in Switzerland?
You'll have to pardon my frank questions but to me, as a person still mulling skeptically over the entire case, all the claims and counter-claims begin to make things appear ever more and more murky. |
The_original_dave
Member
Post Number: 177
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 12:11 pm: |
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Archandel, Methusalem is one of Billy's sons. Yes, FIGU has ''excommunicated'' like you said with Randy Winters since he has taken the case and distorted it to his liking. I do not know what's going on or what happened between Mr. Green and FIGU so I cannot comment on that. |
Archandel
Member
Post Number: 7
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 12:22 am: |
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I'm interested in some of the specific things Winters got wrong and why they were serious enough to estrange him permanently from Meier (who has supposedly called him a liar). Winters, in a lecture, stated that FIGU simply never forgave him for leaving the group.
I know about the Florida contact issue, and that he ended up mostly retracting his support for that case after he found out some or all of it was faked, but I'm interested in anything else anyone can tell me.
I'm also interested in what he is doing now, if anyone knows, or if he has a website. |
J_rod7
Member
Post Number: 95
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 06:17 pm: |
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Warmest Greetings to All,
Having followed many of these postings in the Skeptic's Corner, allow me to add only "two-cents worth".
It is fine for anyone to have a HEALTHY skepticism of ideas you may find, no matter what source. From this, your knowledge will make progress. However, beware lest you fall into the "trap" of an "endless loop" over trivia.
In my humble opinion (IMHO), the meaning of life is to find Joy in the Living. The back-and-forth over the meaning of trivia can only fuel a slow burning grudge.
There once was a student of the Tao who expressed this:
> Before I became Enlightened
> I chopped Wood, I carried Water -
> After I became Enlightened -
> I chopped Wood, I carried Water. <
You may well ask = What does this Mean?
IMHO: Before Enlightenment, the man carried a grudge in his heart that he should have to chop Wood, carry Water.
After Enlightenment, the man found joy in his heart that he was able to chop Wood, carry Water. For now he knew he would have fire to warm his bones, water to quench his thirst.
Salome
Let Our LOVE show in all actions,
J_rod7
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Edward
Member
Post Number: 1013
Registered: 05-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 06:29 am: |
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Hi Rod....
Very interesting posting you posted, there!
Well, Billy did mention that we should experience LIFE to it's Fullest!
Which I would agree with, fully!
Only through such manifestation, One can experience the many Splendor's, in
life, and what Creation has to offer us; which in turn, would have very much
beneficial effect into One's Evolution processing.
Not experiencing life To It's Fullest, would be like...just sitting down and
just turning One's thumbs all day long, and accomplish: Nothing! Only seeing
life go bye, and achieving: Nothing. Very superficial, this is.
And concerning the student of Tao:
Jmmanuel also did mentioned, that we should make sure we did not become
short of any of our daily necessities, and the we should make sure that we
obtained them...beforehand: hence, they will not come to you!
Only part I do not agree with: is that the chopping of wood, and carrying of
water; thus, no need to be executed in such 'dreadful strict' manner.
Naturally, One can acquire "discipline", but it should not have to be
executed, as just mentioned.
"Discipline" is obtained through Understanding, and not through Dreadful
Strict requirements!
Edward. |
Archandel
Member
Post Number: 10
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 03:30 pm: |
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I have a question about Billy's purported relationship to the Judeo-Christian-Islamic prophets. And also a question about the Plejaren's stated attitude about Islam (if they have stated any).
First, if Billy is in a direct relational line from the biblical prophets and Mohammed, how then could the Plejaren attitude towards the core western religions be that they are simply the deceptive work of manipulative extraterrestrials? If those three western religions are false, then none of the prophets (except Billy) could be true prophets.
Similarly, I've read that Billy is next in the line of prophets after Mohammed. But if Mohammed received the Koran, which is strictly monotheistic and mentions God (Allah) on every page, then what was the source of the Koran?
According to the Plejaren, who reject the notion of God, shouldn't the Koran be a false teaching, therefore making Mohammed a false prophet? There seems to be a contradiction inherent in calling Billy the prophet in line after Mohammed. |
Kingman
Member
Post Number: 315
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 12:02 am: |
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Hi Rod,
I agree to your idea that finding joy in the living is an important corner of a well balanced table of life. But we can see many examples of people living lives that bring incredible joy to them, yet have smothered others servicing these people into a life close to misery. I realize you are not meaning to include such people in your proclamation. Yours, I hope, is based upon Billy's meaning of the 'Joy in the Living', which has in it the knowledge that all of ones actions in this ideal has a betterment for all that are effected by this way of living.
Sometimes expounding a little more is needed, especially when your posting in the Skeptics corner.
a friend in america
Shawn
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Phi_spiral
Member
Post Number: 199
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 11:59 am: |
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Hello Archandel,
FIGU publishes a booklet which you can get that explains your questions quite well, Those Who Lie About Contacts...Questions About Mohammed:
Regarding Mohammed, Billy writes the following:
“Mohammed was born as Jmmanuel's reincarnation, founded Islam and preached the teachings of Truth, albeit only in the form of half-truths and intertwined with the belief images of the Earth humans of those days, since this was the only way to induce the humans on Earth to listen and become absorbed. Thus, he also preached of Allah's uniqueness and greatness, knowing full well that God was not Creation...<snip> Therefore, this was a half-truth which Mohammed was forced to bring forth and preach to the people...”<snip>
“For all these reasons, Mohammed was and continues to be called a ‘false prophet’...<snip>
Thus, many facts from Mohammed's life indicate that he was an arch-crook and rogue beyond compare, which, expressed in other words means that he was exceedingly clever and carefully thought matters out to the last detail.<snip> Therefore, no blame or wrongful doing can be held against him, even though some of his actions are incongruous now with present day moral principles, e.g., the fact that he sold slaves upon someone's instructions, etc., and did other things that are considered today as being illicit, such as assaults on opponents who had attacked both him and his faithful, etc. <snip> Thus, Mohammed had to come on the scene and act contrary to his own ways and against his own convictions to form a new cult that had to restrain all other existing cults.”
And, it is written on pages in verses 1371-1373, of the book An Open Word:
1371. But just as had been the case previously, the truthful Prophet Mohammed never had the time to personally mark down his own teachings, his admonitions and prophecies, and as a result his cousin was given the task of doing so. However, he incorrectly interpreted everything by using his own biased judgement and then falsified the statements while recording them, causing Mohammed's teachings even more serious harm than had been the case with Jmmanuel's teachings, some 500 years earlier, through Jmmanuel's brother Jacob, Paul-Saul and the disciples Luke, Matthew, Mark and John.
1372. The truthful prophet Mohammed was forced to act in the well-known manner as he confronted the ancient, idolatrous, false teachings, and mainly those of Judaism and Christianity.
1373. It was this preordained action alone of inveighing against the false religions that protected against the prevalent blood- and hate-religions of those days, in addition to safeguarding against the increase of Christianity's delusional-belief religion to a point where these religions would have ruled over the Earth's entire population. This action prevented Earth's mankind that had been totally blinded by its sectarian religions, from destroying itself by way of monstrous, world-encompassing, merciless religious sectarian wars.
1378. In spite of all this, however, Mohammed shook the world so that the Christian sectarian religion was unable to place the world into bondage and slavery over the previous 1500 years, to the degree that man would have had to completely surrender his own will and his own capacity for reasoning.
1379. It was only Mohammed's appearance and actions which ensured that half of the Earth's mankind would not be slaughtered by Christendom's madness, even though the indirect results of Mohammed's actions were not always very obvious. |
Mehraein62
Member
Post Number: 13
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 06:44 pm: |
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Hello , Thanks to Archandel and Phi_spiral for his explanation , but yet I think must wait and get more clear and up to the point of Islam Appearance from Billy and P,s friends. someone maybe simply think that the same advanced entities that did bring the pas most important religions to earth and they asked for it, now trying to harshly reject and deny them all!, if we are arriving new era that no needs to the past teachings any more?
Best Regards
Salome
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Markc
Member
Post Number: 585
Registered: 06-2000
| | Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 08:35 pm: |
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Hi Archandel;
I can partly answer one of your questions . All of the mentioned (by Billy) so called "biblical" prophets were dead set against religion in their own time. That's what we didn't know before , since the religions ( judaism and christianity) claimed them as their own "godly" representatives. These prophets were teaching about Creation , the message so badly maligned and distorted by the religions that truth is now taken for lies and lies taken for truth .
kind regards , Mark
Mark Campbell
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Badr
Moderator
Post Number: 288
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 02:31 am: |
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Dear Mehreain,
As you know and to some of the members that don’t know. I haven’t been able to reply as my father passed away last week from cancer, unfortunately it was discovered too late to get it under control. But I am happy to say that my family and me are doing well now. And as I am now up to date with the discussions on the forum I will be around more often. Since this discussion is not about me let me turn to your post.
Although you separated your paragraphs into point there are a few topics you discuss under the first point, so I will split them further.
1.1 The reason previous religions and writings can be at some points similar to Billy’s writing or teachings don’t mean anything. As mentioned previously the truth has been disseminated many times before in earth history, but it was mostly misused and wrapped with lies for the purpose of control. So you will always find bits and pieces that are similar, the one thing you will not find is, so much truths from one source in our history.
1.2 The reason Billy is the only one in contact with the Plejarens as stated many times, is because they would need to limit such contacts, as soon as they allow one more person it would just open up the doors for everyone else on earth to have a right to get in contact with them. And when I sit a minute and think about it I don’t see a point in it. You have to remember the mission is not about proving the existence of the Plejarens.
1.3 The reason you don’t see that the teachings as a very important source for future peace on earth means that you don’t know the contents of the teachings.
1.4 The reason the information is confusing to you and seem to have a lot of inconsistencies and contradictions is because you haven’t read enough, like anything new in the beginning everything seems confusing and not logic but after some months or years it becomes crystal clear. I remember when I first started using a computer :-) , but there are mistakes in the information that I agree with.
1.5 Your last sentence wasn’t clear enough.
2- Not clear what explanation you are asking for.
3- Earth has been since thousands of years plagued by false teachings, so there is no real need to intervene in radical ways to force a change on earth. ETs have intervened in certain technological discoveries if it can affect our solar system negatively. And I will mention a point again the Plejarens are not here to bring peace or to solve our problems, they give us information so we can do it ourselves. And the reason why they make a lot of things unclear is because they don’t want to create another religion which would happen if the case is totally irrefutable, which leads me to advise you to read the article about plausible deniability by our friend Jim Deardorff.
4- It’s nice to see that you have recognized the need to study further, so just try to read as much as you can, as the result of reading and patience would be a much clearer understanding of what it is you are reading.
Wish you all the best.
Salome, Badr |
Mehraein62
Member
Post Number: 15
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 08:45 pm: |
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Dear Badr how we all happy to have you here again, and again pls accept our deep condolences about your father and hope it would not U too sad.
Thanks a lot for beautiful explanations , and yes as you mentioned i must read more and more , but a lot of skeptical challenging points come and goes to my mind(as also others) about several things in the works, expressions and explanations of all the friends are very useful but not satisfying with me yet.( there are some gaps and some no clear points on them all specially in religion).
I think we all need a very simple , direct and very clear enough word (language) to say that is Yes or No! and than why? Yes or why No? P,s only want or can make connect to one channel(Billy)? exactly the same as old prophets and religions?! if the like to change some bad things here , why not go public? Is not has more better results? yes sure we have some texts and talks about why they behaviour like this.
- P,s friends don't want intervene and change the current evolution path way on earth? so they did come warn about what? if not interested on it at all?!
- they come to help (or guide) to some better way? OK, but with saying half true and half not to say it?!! as mentioned in several contacts and in our Friends comments (you can see Phi_spiral comments right here for example)_ 
-The Prophet Mohammad was real prophet? by the TJ yes it was , But his teachings falsified even in his precens as P,s friends saying. -Mohammad comes to confirm Jmmanuel teachings as well? P,s say yes but half true half not!
_ In spite of this all the past and old religions were semi _ wrong , for dominating and slavery of earth humans? as P,s ideas YES!
- They (P,s) responsible for introducing past religions ( and also knows and intervened in maybe all of them)? by P,s ideas YES!
_ So Why they did such things? they fond some good idiot and foolish children on earth ready to deception and deceit?! and exploration ?maybe yes
_ P,s and Dear Mr Billy try to clear and get earth human more closer to the truth? sure. but by very obligatory need some very new means (words-thinking-thoughts-cult) for making the mission more clear. It must be.
-But U all witness the shaping of the new Philosophy with its Special Terms, that after some years in future without accessibility to the first hand texts and sources , the path for new religion (Masters, Priest , Mollahas , Imams , Guru , etc) would be ready, promise of the P.s that not to come and contact in long future years also guaranties the idea Am I right?
Dear Friend Badr, Yes I need read more and more all the FIGU , Billy works and also follow the comments of all friends here as it is normally very necessary. but much read without Illumination (inner , by creation itself ,or maybe with a little help by P,s friends)almost goes no way. as Quran says and Mr. Badr well knows the meaning(( Masalo ou lazi ....ka masalo alHemrare Uhamelo Asfara...))5-joumee
Best Regards
Salome
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