Archive through March 15, 2011

Author Message Markcampbell Member Post Number: 196 Registered: 10-2008 Posted on Monday, June 15, 2009 - 11:17 pm:        That it makes perfect sense would be to no avail when explaining things to such a person . because , in their minds , it's only a trick of the devil . How convenient . Smukhuti Member Post Number: 141 Registered: 06-2009 Posted on Thursday, December 24, 2009 - 08:23 am:        How come TJ mention a false number (five thousand) in Chapter 16 "Feeding of the Five Thousand" when Billy, in contact 207 have said that the storage banks have information about only 250? Billy went on to say in contact 207 that John was the culprit (along with other disciples) in doing the exaggerations when he was in India. What I could understand by reading contact 207 (http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=386805075&blogId=523128585), is that John only falsified the documents which evolved to the New Testament and not Talmud Jmmanuel. Salome Jim Member Post Number: 95 Registered: 07-2003 Posted on Thursday, December 24, 2009 - 02:02 pm:        It seems that Smukhuti has pointed out a gross discrepancy between Contact #207 and the Talmud of Jmmanuel (TJ). If the number present at that feeding had been only about 250, not 5000, then at first glance there would seem to have been several possibilities: a) Jmmanuel might have done the exaggerating, along with Judas Iscarioth. Or, b) Rashid, in translating the TJ into German, somehow got the number wrong. Or, c) Quetzal was telling it wrong to Billy, or d) The woman who set Billy's draft of the TJ into print in 1978 altered it from 250 into 5000 to make it agree with the Gospels, or e) The translation of Contact 207 by Benjamin is erroneous in many of its sentences. However, it cannot have been a), b) or d), since the Gospel writers (of Matthew, Luke and John) got the number 5000 from the TJ (transcript) itself. So the TJ rolls (scrolls) translated by Rashid and set into print by Frau Krauer, must have read 5000, which is what Judas must have written. But certainly, when Judas wrote down the TJ, under Jmmanuel's supervision or dictation in northern India or on the Silk Road to India, he was not getting his information from the disciple John! So my best guess is d) not e): the gross distortion comes from Quetzal, for the purpose of "muddying the waters" and casting doubt on the TJ, so that there's less danger of people's free will being violated if they learn that the TJ was a real document that violates many of their biblical beliefs. I believe the Plejarens regard it as more important not to violate free will than not to ever tell a lie. There are a couple of errors in Meier's part of the text of Contact 207 also. The Feeding of the 5000 occurred some 10 chapters later, in the TJ, than the Sermon on the Mount. So of course the Feeding is not mentioned in the Sermon on the Mount, nor in the New Testament's versions of the Sermon on the Mount. And so also the crowd that had gathered there for the feeding had come from along the shores of Lake Galilee, not from having come down the hill where Jmmanuel spoke his Sermon on the Mount. They had gathered there along the shore (not from any one hill) to seek out Jmmanuel right after having learned of the beheading of John the Baptist. Also, it was five barley loaves and 3 fish, not 2 fish, according to the TJ. Thanks for raising this issue, Smukhuti. Indi Member Post Number: 370 Registered: 06-2006 Posted on Thursday, December 24, 2009 - 04:04 pm:        from reading both the TJ section and Contact 207, it seems to me that it was Billy who made the mistake, confusing the location of those at the sermon on the mount and those at the shores after John the Baptist was decapitated, and Quetzal just got caught up in it. It happens! Robyn Ramirez Member Post Number: 361 Registered: 06-2008 Posted on Thursday, December 24, 2009 - 04:11 pm:        Hi Jim, Whilst not being there it seems reasonable that Jmannuel with a party of followers numbering maybe 15 could attract a crowd of 250 ..... but a crowd of 5,000 is a huge gathering in comparison. So without a speaker system or microphones how does a single person address 5,000 in the open air ? 250 maybe. Remember your school days ..... how many in the school ..... 1,000 ? So at a school assembly what does a crowd of 1,000 look like ? Multiply by X5 .... that's a huge gathering for what were essentially small villages & towns. People had a life, work, family committments to get on with so how do you draw off so many from their normal daily tasks, gather in one place then speak to them. Physically it's unrealistic to surround a person with 5,000 others and then be possible for all to hear what he speaks in a normal voice. Even if he was screaming and there was drop a pin silence .... in the open air ??? come on. Accoustics are not that flexible. Miracles ..... in the big book of lies miracles explain everything away in a breath. Cheers. Smukhuti Member Post Number: 142 Registered: 06-2009 Posted on Thursday, December 24, 2009 - 09:32 pm:        Hello Jim, It is unlikely names and numbers(New Testament, TJ,5000,250) can be mistranslated from Germen to English because they are so easy to understand by even a beginners level Germen knowing person like me; unless someone deliberately do it. I have re-checked some passages from Benjamin's earlier translations using his methodology and found this guy to be honest in his effort. But I cannot re-check this passage from contact 207 since he has not linked the source of the original Germen version of contact 207 in his blog. The part about the fish also needs to be checked from the original source. Possibility 'c' is unthinkable for me as so far I could not remember of 1 instance that P's have fed wrong information to Billy. Only some information were obfuscated because they felt either that information would not be required to provide to earth humans or that time was not right in providing that information or the information could pose a danger to the mission or they would affect the free will of earth humans as you say. The thing about providing disinformation was done by P's ancestors and Bafath whose errors they have set out to correct and by current earth secret services. Maybe possibility 'b' is a strong candidate that somehow the erroneous New Testament was un-intentionally mixed up with TJ by Isa Rashid during his translation effort from Aramic to Germen? Salome Savio Senior Member Post Number: 636 Registered: 07-2000 Posted on Friday, December 25, 2009 - 12:05 am:        Hi Jim It seems that the number ¡§5000¡¨ was actually within the TJ. The possibilities are: 1. Judas wrote it down before his journey to India. 2. Perhaps Judas did not take part in the feeding of people event. 3. Judas listened to John and wrote down his exaggerated story. How about that? Best Savio Edward Member Post Number: 1590 Registered: 05-2002 Posted on Friday, December 25, 2009 - 02:36 am:        Hi Smukhuti and All.... I would agree: good for Smukhuti to bring this up. I had also noticed it, in the past; but never came around to mention it. Always grand to hear Jim's in-put, and his clarification. And has, as he mentioned the possibility of his mentioned: the Plejarens regard it as more important not to violate free will than not to ever tell a lie. Which has been mentioned so every now-and-than, by Jim...and others, as I would also acknowledge as 'plausible'. Thus, WE are always granted the possibility/opportunity of Free Will...without it being 'tampered with'...directly! Edward. Earthling Member Post Number: 342 Registered: 05-2008 Posted on Friday, December 25, 2009 - 04:58 am:        Smukhuti - Contact 207 in German http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=471477691&blogId=523130118 Rarena Member Post Number: 551 Registered: 10-2005 Posted on Friday, December 25, 2009 - 09:12 am:        The above reference by Earthling shows some indication of numbering descrepancies... descrepancies in the data are normal in any data set... created by humans... who have the ability to error and in so doing... learn. Didn't Billy mention a few years back... the fishes and loaves story was a consciousness exercise in his answer to someones' question? Billy's answer to this question might shed some light on this descrepancy... Jim Member Post Number: 96 Registered: 07-2003 Posted on Friday, December 25, 2009 - 09:36 am:        Hi Robyn, I can't visualize Quetzal getting "caught up" in Billy's mistakes, exactly. But if Billy had been mistaken in the number 250 he obtained from the Akashic Records or memory banks, Quetzal might then have thought that this was an ideal time to falsely confirm Billy on that matter, and provide some future plausible deniability to the hundreds of millions of Christians whose free will cannot accept that their New Testament is so false and the TJ so true. . Hello Ramirez, There is no indication, from the TJ's chapter 16, that Jmmanuel addressed any speech to the large crowd that had gathered along the shore there. Instead, after he went ashore he made himself available to heal the sick among them. No loudspeakers needed for that! However, admittedly Jmmanuel did at one point tell the people (or have his disciples tell them?) to stay put (so that he could provide them with food right there). So perhaps possibility a) occurred, too: the number was exaggerated in the memories of Jmmanuel & Judas when he wrote it down years later. . Smukhuti, You wrote: "Maybe possibility 'b' is a strong candidate that somehow the erroneous New Testament was un-intentionally mixed up with TJ by Isa Rashid during his translation effort from Aramic to Germen?" I rejected that possibility because the New Testament gospels originated from the TJ, and both the Gospels and the TJ agree that the figure was around 5,000. The TJ does also speak of it as being a "large crowd" (grosse Menge). . Savio, The TJ must have been almost entirely dictated to Judas by Jmmanuel. There's so much in it that Judas wouldn't have known about, such as J's genealogy, plus things J learned from his parents and from Gabriel & his guardian angel, plus the Sermon on the Mount that occurred before Judas became a disciple but which Jmmanuel could pretty well remember, etc. All that and much more happened within Jmmanuel's dictation to Judas before they chronologically reached the Feeding event. So I find your 1. above to be implausible. But in case Jmmanuel didn't carefully read over everything that Judas wrote down, the 5000 figure could have been an exaggeration due to Judas alone. Another part of Quetzal's "plausible deniability" seems to be his statement that the falsification (from 250 to 5000) was due to (the disciple) John. There is no indication in any literature that anything was known about the Feeding of the 5000 until after the Gospels came out. And they didn't get written until some years after the TJ was carried from Kashmir to the Palestine area, after Jmmanuel had died in early 2nd century. So John was long dead by the time the Gospels were written (around 120-130 CE). On the other hand, perhaps John and the other disciples including Judas, soon after the feeding, in talking about it over and over kept exaggerating the number until it reached 5000. Then, ten years later or whenever that portion of the TJ was written down, Judas put that number in and Jmmanuel didn't bother to correct it. In that manner, I can see that where Quetzal said: "That happened [the exaggeration] through John, as well as through the other disciples" could be true, and would certainly have occurred in Jmmanuel's lifetime. However, in that case, the false exaggerations were made before Jmmanuel & Judas and party were in India. Unless you lay the most blame for the exaggeration on Judas when he wrote down the TJ story, which probably occurred in India. Re your 3., yes, perhaps John was the largest exaggerator, and Judas listened most to him, but was himself the one most responsible for the final exaggeration since he wrote it down in the TJ, in India. Would that absolve Quetzal from any lying here? If so, we need blame only Jmmanuel for allowing this gross exaggeration to stand within the TJ. . Thanks for your input, Edward, and for that URL to the German version of Contact 207, Smukhuti. ..Jim Ramirez Member Post Number: 362 Registered: 06-2008 Posted on Friday, December 25, 2009 - 07:55 pm:        Hi Jim, TJ Chapter 16. 18. When Jmannuel heard this,he was overcome with fear and retreated by boat to a deserted area. However, when the people heard that, they followed him on foot from towns. 19. Jmannuel saw the large crowd from the water, and feeling sorry for them, he went ashore and healed their sick. 20. In the evening his disciples came to him and said, "This area is deserted and night is falling over the land. Tell the people to go away so they can buy food and drink in the villages." 21. But Jmannuel said, "It is not necessary that they go away. Give them food and drink." Lets study the logic of these verses. 18. Jmannuel hears about John the Baptist being beheaded ... how. Must be word of mouth so someone obviously reached his group and word spread verbally. He retreats off shore in a small boat. Yes OK. People from the towns heard some information and followed him on foot. Here we have the problem. How does word get about to different towns that John is dead, Jmannuel is in a certain isolated location in a boat off shore, and persons from different towns which are likely located at least miles from each other begin to converge on the precise location. 19. No problems coming ashore and healing the sick. 20. His disciples advise Jmannuel to disperse the crowd so they can go to villages to buy food. Here we have a problem. Would there be shops or vendors doing trade after dark in small villages ? possible but we would need to know the historical perspective of how communal life functioned in those days. Also these same villages would be the homes of the crowd. What it appears to indicate is that Jmannuel had gathered a crowd, healed some sick then addressed the gathering. Sounds like a typical campfire preaching scenario and quite believable for 250 persons in the circumstances. All persons are from close by towns or villages who know their way about the area and arrived after hearing by word of mouth that John was dead. But how close were these towns and villages ? As distance grows the credibility of this sort of word of mouth information transfer diminishes. 21. After gathering a crowd, healing some then speaking there is nothing unusual in Jmannuel's desire for the crowd to remain. For 250 this is a great opportunity to listen, learn, be healed then discuss individual experiences, so if word of events spread so fast as to gather a crowd composed of persons walking from local villages and towns after abandoning their work or whatever normally occupied them in the space of an afternoon the message of the teachings fulfills it's intended purpose. For this scenario a crowd of 250 is manageable and seems reasonable but 5,000 .... chaotic and unlikely due to the circumstances. Also regarding feeding 250 with 5 loaves of bread and 3 fishes. Jmannuel wasn't a typical party tricks magician so there is a possible explanation for the feeding of the masses, 250 yes but 5,000 .... probably not. If after demonstrating seemingly miraculous healings before a crowd (group dynamics helps greatly) there is overall a temporarily enhanced state of consciousness imbued throughout the crowd and these dynamics are common knowledge nowdays. Like skilled orators who are able to mesmerize groups at gatherings, Jmannuel was similarly capable so perhaps through the power of suggestion if he visibly broke up 5 loaves into peices then had even small peices distributed to each person those who ate would feel nourished and satisfied if his words commanded it. Mass hypnosis greatly enhanced by the charged atmosphere. The power is in the message. The message is contained throughout the particles of bread. Same principle as the research of Professor Masaru Emoto and his experiments with water. Everything is connected. If you have a charismatic speaker, demonstrated healing miracles then a group suggestion the stage is set. Personally I think the whole thing was expanded for the sake of presenting an impressive story but the reality was simply that Jmannuel wished to use this opportunity for some close contact and getting his teachings across but if people were starting to leave through hunger ..... As for Quetzal being wrong .... from my understanding a Plejaran method used for checking important historical data is to send back into time a small craft (7 meter) which remains cloaked near the area of interest, then use tiny remote telemeter discs for close up observation. Cheers. Smukhuti Member Post Number: 144 Registered: 06-2009 Posted on Friday, December 25, 2009 - 09:09 pm:        The translation is OK. Salome. Suv Jim Member Post Number: 97 Registered: 07-2003 Posted on Friday, December 25, 2009 - 11:20 pm:        Ramirez, "18. Jmannuel hears about John the Baptist being beheaded ... how. Must be word of mouth so someone obviously reached his group and word spread verbally." Read verse 17; John's disciples hunted up Jmmanuel and told him. They were probably telling many others along the way. Savio Senior Member Post Number: 637 Registered: 07-2000 Posted on Saturday, December 26, 2009 - 01:54 am:        Hi Jim Thanks for the thoughts ^_^ Let’s assume the following: 1. Within the TJ, the feeding of people did not happen right after the Sermon on the Mount , not even the 4 Gospels mentioned the feeding of the 5000 was right after the Sermon on the Mount. 2. Perhaps Billy mixed up the event timeline? 3. Within TJ Chapter 10, Jmmanuel was already equipped with all 12 disciples, it was long before the death of John the Baptist and the feeding of people that was written in Chapter 16. 4. Within TJ Chapter 14, the scroll written by Judas was stolen by Juda Ihariot, hence it is logical to say that Judas was actually working on the TJ including taking down the event of feeding of people that is within chapter 16. 5. It was John the disciple who exaggerated the story. 6. The number 5000 was indeed within the TJ. Now, we would deduce: 1. The early parts (the first 9 chapters) of the TJ was dictated to Judas by Jmmanuel. 2. From chapter 10 onwards, Judas would be able to take down whatever happened, including the feeding of the 5000 (chapter 16). 3. Jmmanuel was too busy to check everything written down by Judas, or Jmmanuel put his total trust in Judas because Judas was the most capable and most reliable disciple. 4. It is possible that Judas did not take part in the feeding of people event. 5. Judas listened to the exaggerated story through John and other disciples. 6. Judas wrote down the story sometime later in India according to his memory of the exaggerated story. Just some thoughts Savio Jim Member Post Number: 98 Registered: 07-2003 Posted on Saturday, December 26, 2009 - 08:44 am:        Hi Savio, Your assumptions #1-3 accord well with the TJ. In your #4, however, Judas HAD BEEN writing an early form of the TJ, until his writing was stolen by Juda. But after that, he must have ceased trying to write it down, for quite a long time, until he had some secure place to keep his writings. That would have been in India, or perhaps earlier on the Road to India. There was no secure place while traveling around on foot with Jmmanuel and the other eleven. But this assumption comes mainly from TJ 14:15, where Jmmanuel tells Judas, "But write down my teachings and my life story another time..." Hence I would differ from your deduction #2. He later wrote it all down starting with the genealogy. I believe Jmmanuel's memory was better than that of any of the other disciples, including Judas, so that he later dictated most all of it to Judas, who filled in here and there with his own memories, such as at TJ 31:27 and following. (Judas probably was the "other disciple" at TJ 31:27-28; he could outrun Peter but was not so brazen as to boast of it.) Your deduction #4 is just a possibility, not a probability. If Judas hadn't been at the Feeding, it seems likely he would have relied entirely upon what Jmmanuel dictated to him at that point when writing down the TJ in India. So I would revise your deduction #6. Jmmanuel must have dictated TJ 16:19 to him, which leads right into the Feeding, since only Jmmanuel would know that he had felt sorry for the crowd of people, causing him to go ashore and heal the sick among them. Savio Senior Member Post Number: 638 Registered: 07-2000 Posted on Saturday, December 26, 2009 - 08:19 pm:        Hi Jim Yes, I would agree that deduction #4 is only a possibility ^_^ It seems that our deduction is pointing to a conclusion that it was Judas who put down the number 5000 within the TJ for some unknown reason. Now, I think we have some good questions for Billy in the coming Q&A session: 1. During the 207th contact, did Billy mix up the timeline of Sermon on the Mount and the Feeding of the 5000 events? 2. How come the exaggerated number 5000 was written within the TJ instead of 250? Since the rule is one question per person, we can jointly take part in the Q&A, would you like to refine the questions? Best Savio Michael_horn Member Post Number: 121 Registered: 07-2009 Posted on Sunday, December 27, 2009 - 02:46 pm:        Maybe this will help, a translation courtesy of the Translator at http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.ListAll&friendID=386805075: Billy: With that, everything should probably be clearly explained. Then another question: In the New Testament of the Christian religion, there is talk in the Sermon on the Mount that Jmmanuel should have fed 5,000 people, namely through the increase of fish and bread. To my knowledge, that is not true because in this connection, the memory banks only speak of just 250 people who participated in the so-called Sermon on the Mount. Also, these weren’t just men, as it is said in the New Testament, like among other things in John chapter 6 and verse 10; rather, they were mostly women and children who followed Jmmanuel up the mountain, whereby the mountain was truly more of a hill. Thus, the five barley loaves and two fish, which Jmmanuel increased by his powers of consciousness, weren’t provided for 5,000 men but rather only for 250 people, respectively women and children, among whom there were only 40 men. Now, my question is this: when was the falsification made in relation to the alleged 5,000 people? Quetzal: 28. That happened through John, as well as through the other disciples. Billy: So it was still in Jmmanuel’s lifetime. Quetzal: 29. Yes, he lived at that time when the falsifications were made, already in India, where he also married and fathered several children with his wife. 30. The falsifications originated from exaggerations. *Translator's Insert: In the evening his disciples came to him and said, "This area is deserted and night is falling over the land. Tell the people to go away so that they can buy food and drink in the villages." But Jmmanuel said, "It is not necessary that they go away. Give them food and drink." They replied, "We have nothing here but five loaves of bread and three fish. And he said, "Bring them to me." And telling the people to stay put, he took the five loaves of bread and the three fish, spoke secret words, broke the loaves of bread, cut up the fish and gave them to his disciples; and the disciples gave them to the people. They all ate and were filled, and they saved what was left over, twelve baskets full of pieces. And there were about five thousand who had eaten. Talmud Jmmanuel, Chapter 16, Verses 20-26 *End of Insert Billy: Then one more question. Initially, it was only Judas Ischarioth who could read and write. But to my knowledge, he also instructed all the other disciples in this art, which wasn’t very popular at that time. Quetzal: 31. That is correct. 32. Besides Judas Ischarioth, all the other disciples were illiterates, who learned partially how to read in a short time by Judas, but not how to write. 33. But now, it is again time, my friend, that I leave you and return to pursue my other duties. 34. Until we meet again. Billy: Bye then. Until we meet again. Smukhuti Member Post Number: 149 Registered: 06-2009 Posted on Sunday, December 27, 2009 - 10:00 pm:        I already asked this question to Billy in this round. That way will be surer and clearer. Salome. Suv Savio Senior Member Post Number: 640 Registered: 07-2000 Posted on Sunday, December 27, 2009 - 10:15 pm:        Hi Michael Thanks for the quote ^_^ Our questions arise exactly right within the text. I have sent the questions in this Q&A session. Perhaps Billy will give us a better picture Best Savio Ramirez Member Post Number: 571 Registered: 06-2008 Posted on Sunday, March 13, 2011 - 06:47 pm:        Talmud Jmannuel Take a read of Chapter 10.8 ...... 10.8 "Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, drive out evil spirits. Because you received without having to pay, give therefore without compensation." OK so are we to take this literally or apply some form of interpretation ? And that very issue has in the past and will continue to well into the future to stalk the bible .... accept literally or interpret .... can you have it both ways ? Anyway ..... raise the dead. OK, go ahead, who can accomplish this ? Why is this stated ? Cheers. Sitkaa Member Post Number: 463 Registered: 10-2004 Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2011 - 03:19 am:        Yes, this is literal. These things are possible when they are more a matter of perspective than incontrovertibly the way things are. The question becomes, 'Were they ever sick, dead, possessed'? : ) Fur leben. Jim Member Post Number: 134 Registered: 07-2003 Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2011 - 06:00 am:        Ramirez and Sitkaa, A somewhat more liberal interpretation is possible, though. Recall TJ 8:28 "...let the dead bury their dead." We interpret "the dead" there as being those with nothing more urgent to do, or something like that. So 10:8 could be referring to those who are unconscious or in a state of near-death. But perhaps the next edition of the TJ will read differently here.

Administration Log Out   Previous Page Next Page