| Author | Message | ||
    J_rod7 Member Post Number: 87 Registered: 10-2007 |
Hello Badr, A question, if you will please. Many of us here, including myself, will close our postings with "SALOME", meaning of course, "Peace" or "In Peace". I know that from the peace meditations, the expression is "SAALOME GAM NAAN...", Saalome being proper here. Which is the correct way of spelling, "SALOME" or "SAALOME"?.(in closing.). And is it even appropriate to close a posting with this expression, whichever way this is spelled? I know a simple "In Peace" would probably be adequate. But I am looking here to you for some guidance as to what I see in common usage. Thank you. Let Our LOVE show in all actions, J_rod7 | ||
Badr Moderator Post Number: 285 Registered: 12-2004 |
Hi Rod, Well basically they are the same, the only reason why it would be written as Saalome, is to lengthen the letter „a“ which is more applicable in the peace meditation. If you ever saw Muslems, they use the word Salam or Salamu Alikum whenever they greet someone or leaving a place. In the SSSC the core members do the same thing but using the word Salome. So if I would go into the kitchen I would say Salome miteinander “everyone” or if for example only Billy is there I would say Salome Billy and he would reply as Salome Badr. And in the end of the night or when leaving I would say the same. But it would be a lot of Salomes if added as greeting and when the post is finished on a post which is not necessary… so as for me I got used to writing it only on my signatures. But it would also be correct to replace Hi, Hey, Dear … etc. with it. PS: I only started using it after visiting SSSC the first time.. as I was able to see how they use it. Which is how I described it above. Salome, Badr :-) | ||
Badr Moderator Post Number: 286 Registered: 12-2004 |
To clarify further just in case you didn't get it, by lengthening the letter I mean it in a pronunciation way, so saying Saalome, is meant to clear the way it is pronounced. And not necessarily the way it "should" be written. | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 88 Registered: 10-2007 |
OK. Thank you, Badr. Got it. Salome Let Our LOVE show in all actions, J_rod7 | ||
The_original_dave Member Post Number: 174 Registered: 05-2007 |
Badr, how is your name pronounced? No offence in any way, i'm just not sure.... | ||
Badr Moderator Post Number: 287 Registered: 12-2004 |
Hi Dave, It’s ok, I get this question a lot from English speaking people. As this name exists in Arabic and German, although German is used more commonly as a family name and not first name. There are a few ways to pronounce it in one region of Saudi namely the central and eastern they would pronounce and write it as Bader (Bad – er) the “er” would be like fath(er). But in the western region in Saudi they would pronounce it as Badur. So basically languages that pronounce the letter "R" have it easier to pronounce my name correctly. So I am kind of used to those two versions. That’s enough for now, and please next time write such a question in an appropriate topic, but no point to move this to another section as I don’t think there will be a discussion resulting from my name. :-) But if someone wanted to add something then please in another topic. PS: In Arabic it means full moon. I guess no need to go into detail about the German origin, as the name was chosen from the Arabic language. Salome, Badr | ||
Mehraein62 Member Post Number: 71 Registered: 12-2007 |
HI Forum, if in next incarnations humans can directly, indirectly , or by impulses receive info from CCB? in order to make his evolution one step more? Best Regards Salome | ||
Mehraein62 Member Post Number: 75 Registered: 12-2007 |
HI Forum, sorry , but how someone can open the entrance of impulses coming from fine_mater Relm? Best Regards Salome | ||
Badr Moderator Post Number: 291 Registered: 12-2004 |
Hi Mehraein and others, Let me start off by saying that there is nothing wrong with asking questions, but when it gets to a limit were your posts are only questions it becomes a bit of an annoyance to some people. Especially the people that have bought FIGU published material and spent many hours, weeks, months maybe even years reading Billy’s books and spent equal time thinking about the teachings. My advice is start buying books, and start translating and reading the material. And if you still have a question then it will be better formulated, compared to not knowing much about the issue you are asking about. Trust me Billy has written so much that if a person was really interested and a serious student there would be no need for many questions because most of the information necessary is available in FIGU's published materials. Salome, Badr | ||
Mehraein62 Member Post Number: 77 Registered: 12-2007 |
Dear Badr and others, 1-for sure you are right. yes I confess , that mustn't only be questions in my comments and hope not to annoy any friend with the simple and maybe silly questions. 2- As I am newcomer in the Forum yet, and I am trying to study most of the comments archived here in order to get the right lines and could follow the subjects, it is so normal to ask or bring some new questions that someone couldn't find in Archive.I think all dear friends (and also Moderators) can keep their patience.otherwise they can simply ignore my comments and keep their eyes closed to them. 3-I think it is the very simple right of freedom for every Member here that can say or request some info. 4-Yes as you also know well , I already ordered and also I am trying to obtain and to buy books, materials, etc and read them all but it doesn't mean that not to exchange ideas with others here (in Forum). 5- As you know well , it is a huge problem for non_German language users to can read any materials ( yet most of them) in the originally language, so asking and receiving some info that German _ language friends already got and have them , I think it couldn't be very seriously annoying to that friends Best Regards Salome | ||
Annie New member Post Number: 1 Registered: 02-2008 |
Mehraein, in my experience of a small 8 years, I have seen this again and again - almost everyone new to the Mission is enthusiastic about learning as much as they can - myself included in that statement! I think other long-time Passive members can relate too.  It is like the flood gates have been opened for the person, so it is normal to have so many questions. Also, it is better to ask questions than not - something that was told me by a very kind and patient KG49 member years ago when I flooded her inbox with endless questions!  Something that could help you to know is that it is not always possible to answer all your questions here on the forum (which are very good questions btw) because we all are also still learning and don't have all the knowledge. Also the moderators do their best but they too have lives to lead and are simply students of the Teachings as we all are. Christian Frehner is the only KG49 member here on the English forum (from Switzerland) and he is greatly stretched for his time also. We need to all practice patience, and due consideratian, on all sides. My suggestion to you is to keep a pen and paper and write your questions down on a list for yourself. The questions you cannot find answers to by your own research (e.g. reading Billy's & FIGU texts) you could ask here on the forum or, if truly necessary, to the KG49 in Switzerland. And the Q&A to Billy here on the forum is invaluable, although it is also an excellent exercise in patience, a much underestimated quality which has many positive benefits to the human in all areas of life.  My further advice is that a good place to start for anyone new to FIGU who wants to learn more is by obtaining as much of the official translated to English books, etc. from the FIGU shop and English website. http://shop.figu.org/index.php?cPath=63 http://us.figu.org/portal/Documents/tabid/114/Default.aspx http://us.figu.org/portal/Products/tabid/88/Default.aspx Best wishes | ||
Annie New member Post Number: 1 Registered: 02-2008 |
PS: I am simply concurring with, and elaborating on Badr's excellent advice above. | ||
Thomas Member Post Number: 455 Registered: 03-2004 |
Mehraein, your consciousness is already part of your CCB so you are never seperate from it, but if you mean the storage banks, you already have unconscious access to this in daily life depending on certain factors. You just don't realize it. THAT was mentioned here on the forum if you search for it. On another note, you have no "rights" as a member here other than normal human rights. If you want answers, it is alright to ask, but I agree with Badr. YOU have to do the real work. Not speaking german is not an excuse. I also do not speak nor read german without resources and help, so you CAN do it :-) | ||
Mehraein62 Member Post Number: 83 Registered: 12-2007 |
Annie thanks again for the brilliant advice. yes almost a lot of friends here ready to lead. you yourself , Dear Badr , Thomas , Edward , Randy and all Figu members. but if it is better to ask questions than not, so pardon me one more time , whats this KG49? I didn't get it. - about getting pen and paper , you guessed well I already did. To Annie , Badr,Thomas. before and after reading the materials I think every one need to exchange ideas and make it better clear Cristal for himself and all, right? Thomas, 1- yes Normal Right for sure ( not extraordinary or spacial right) 1- yes knowing no German , for sure is not the excuse and i didn't want intend to it be. 2- I got some materials in German (beside English )and ready to deal ,with a software German-English translation Best Regards Salome | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 125 Registered: 10-2007 |
Hello Ebrahim, KG49, I believe, refers to the 49-members of the Core Group, there in Switzerland, at the Semjase Silver Star Center ( which you will also see abbreviated as = SSSC ). And, you have asked: >> "how someone can open the entrance of impulses coming from fine_mater Relm?" << The simple answer is through meditation. Allow yourself to go into a very relaxed state of body and mind, ask the question of your consciousness-spirit, and allow the answer come into your mind through your intuition from your spirit. There are many ways to get into meditation, and there are some excellent guidelines from Billy. Salome Someone Shared Their LOVE Today. Was It YOU? J_rod7 | ||
Thomas Member Post Number: 471 Registered: 03-2004 |
Hi everyone. I recently read something from BEAM on the german forum board which was posted by a core group member and I found it to be important to all of us. Here is my encapsulated (not directly quoted) version of what I brought out of the article: Faith and belief are based on assumption of things that can never be proven. Knowledge on the other hand can only be gained by building on known and proveable facts. Doubt and uncertainty are inseperable from faith because faith (or just belief) is not based on anything solid. A person of knowledge will never have any doubt in what he knows because everything in his knowing is built on previously proven to him factual facts. Thus there is no weak link in his knowledge whereby doubt could gain a foothold. If a man of knowledge is presented a lesson, he will neither reject it nor accept it with any prejudice, but rather will take note of the contents of the lesson until it is proven to him by himself. At the moment that he proves or disproves factually the contents of the lesson to himself, he has become knowing with certainty. To me this is very important because it applies to everyone on this planet, but particularly to us who trust and believe Mr Meier as well. If he is indeed the truthful man that many of us believe him to be, then we should all pay him the respect of listening to him without prejudice, but never just believing him without proving absolutely to ourselves about whether what he teaches is or is not the truth. It is not enough that, like I have been guilty of, we just trust him because he seems very likely to be honest and truthful in what he teaches. We should never fall victim to our own desire and tendency to want so desperately to believe in something good and wonderful, that we pollute ourselves to the truth of reality. Otherwise we squander the valuable truth of whatever reality is. I have read Mr Meiers material and information since about 1990 and have always tried to be open and balanced as I researched for myself about whether or not he is telling the truth. The fact is though, I have leaned toward accepting what he says without question because the mountainous volume of evidence on his behalf lead me to believe that he is the real deal as far as the truth is concerned. However, I have recently tried to switch over to being more balanced and less over eager to accept. In the end, the only way to make progress, is by taking what is all around us as evident, and building on that in a logical, balanced, and truthful way. I felt this was important to share with you all. If we don't follow this line of thought, we are really no better off than those poor people that eagerly believe that every light in the night sky is an alien craft or that God will save them from their own sins. The truth is here and now and we must not just accept whatever we hear. We must WORK toward the truth and each of us becoming knowing from within ourselves. Have a good day everyone... | ||
Adityasonakia Member Post Number: 176 Registered: 07-2007 |
> ["Dear Thomas, Thanks for the article. The Plejarens say, that nothing must be believed. Everyone must by themself experience truth. If we are told that there is a "God", we just must not believe it, we should think about it. Reason on it, with the knowledge we have, only then we can come to a logical conclusion. Even in this case I feel, we must not just accept it, that there is a Creation, we must reason on it, think for ourselves, and then say that "yes there is a Creation". Salome Aditya. > ] | ||
Edward Member Post Number: 1076 Registered: 05-2002 |
Hi Thomas and Aditya.... Very well put, Thomas. Very positive to see that you are 'discovering' yourself. Truth, can only be seen/sensed from the beholder....him/her-self, as they say. Aditya: Very true, the Teachings tell us that there is a Creation; but, DO we know what (that) Creation IS!? Thus, the answer, may not be that relevant...as it may seem! Do we KNOW....WHAT (the) Creation IS? Can we Comprehend, it's Concept....etc..? Would be more relevant. So, in order to KNOW what the answer consists of we must Unravel it's contents to really Acknowledge the answer, as Truth, and without doubt. Just like with all aspects in life. Remember: Billy does talk in 'riddles' at times, as does the Plejarans! They do this, so that we...ourselves can Learn...and Think, for Ourselves! Edward. | ||
The_original_dave Member Post Number: 204 Registered: 05-2007 |
Great post Thomas. | ||
Corey Member Post Number: 5 Registered: 10-2007 |
Thomas thank you for bringing that to our attention (sehr gut). Corey | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 351 Registered: 07-2004 |
Truthful answers are capable of being realized by the clear thinking of a logical mind, even when evidence to be pondered on is only an idea, or statements made from an actual witness. Anybody, with a well balanced completeness in his being, are able to comprehend gaps in the evidence and arrive at an accurate truth with this use of logical reasoning. Something well worth practicing. a friend in america Shawn | ||
Adityasonakia Member Post Number: 183 Registered: 07-2007 |
> ["Dear Edward, > Yes, exactly. Our Evolution on Earth has not been a normal one, most of us were created by the Creator overlords. We came to our planet, so our evolution is a little off-way. That is the reason, i think why the plejarens came. If we had had a normal beggening on Earth, then no one would have come, as we would have searched for the truth ourselves. Salome Aditya." > ] | ||
Pledja Member Post Number: 11 Registered: 02-2008 |
For some reason i have this strong trust and connection to Billy's teaching though i dont bias myself towards his teachings.Everything ive studied so far logically makes since . For spiritual teachings i say we start learning from those who understand what we want to understand.Im currently learning the german language to become a passive member to take on the spirit lessons because right now some topics are very stagnant to me.Im currently using meditation to learn everything firsthand for myself but the spirit lessons would be a valuble tool for many people of this site who are ready to take giant leaps instead of baby steps. Pledja. | ||
Markc Member Post Number: 604 Registered: 06-2000 |
Greetings Pledja ; That's as clear of an insight as I've ever heard , about the spirit lessons . " Giant leaps " over ' baby steps '. Your comment has a motivating effect . Thanks very much. Kind Regards , Mark Mark Campbell | ||
Thomas Member Post Number: 474 Registered: 03-2004 |
Just a little aside from something else that I read from BEAM that strikes me as completely logical. He mentions that, although the truth must be gained for oneself, all development cannot be gained only from within without any additions from the outside world. This is from memory but I believe that he used a seed as an example. If I remember correctly, he mentioned how, even though the seed has practically everything within itself that it needs to develop into a plant, it still needs the light of the Sun, the water of the environment, and the minerals of the Earth it grows in to continue in its development. This is an example of how everyone needs not only what is within themselves, but the world around them as well. I realize that this wasn't a quote from BEAM's writing and may be slightly different from what he said in exact words, but I think that I have understood (at least generally) what he was getting at. It also reminds me of how he alludes in other places to the fact that, even though humans on Earth often try to fit everything into hierarchies, everything and everyone is integrated into each other as one. We all need each other and the world around us, just as we also need to balance that with growth from within ourselves. Does this make sense the way I explained it? Sometimes I don't articulate as clearly as I want but I really want to share with others the way that people shared with me and others in the past. Speaking of which, I would like to say thank you for exactly that. Jakobjn, I know that you have your life and I hope you are doing well in your studies (both spirit lessons and school as well) but I would like to say thank you for the wealth of info you shared with all of us in the past on the forum. It was extremely welcome and helpful to me... | ||
Adityasonakia Member Post Number: 184 Registered: 07-2007 |
> ["Dear Pledja, Its very good that you are learning German, and want to learn the Spirt lessons. But remember Meditation is a good way, it is not a small step, it helps a lot. Yes, Spirit lessons may help you get a better view, but ultimately its all meditation. Salome Aditya" > ] | ||
Jacob Moderator Post Number: 504 Registered: 01-2004 |
Thanks Thomas for the kind words, I am still monitoring the forum, however my Psychology studies, spirit lesson studies, and I am studying the fluidal forces book and booklets at the moment, are taking a lot of my time, on top of that I am waiting for Billy's Magnus Opus to be available «Kelch der Wahrheit» (Chalice of Truth) to be published, which is very important in my opinion for anyone's consciousness-related development. On top of that I recently accepted a nice job at a very large IT company. FIGU, or should I say Billy mostly, published in a short amount of time a lot of very good information which simply takes a lot of time to think through and to study. To study this material always goes slow and with small steps, hopefully soon I can start sharing again what I have learned from the material, however I think it is very important that people keep on thinking and continue to be logical-critical about anything presented to them, and not accepting it as-is, even when it is from Billy. Never stop thinking. Salome, Jacob Saalome gam naan ben uurda, gan njjber asaala hesporoona! | ||
Thomas Member Post Number: 477 Registered: 03-2004 |
Very nice to hear that you are well then Jakobjn. I wish you continued success and I will be more than happy whenever you are here on the forum actively again. I try to figure things out as much as possible on my own, but I have to say that your explanations have advanced my understanding very substantially. Take care of yourself and congratulations on the job! -Thomas | ||
Badr Moderator Post Number: 311 Registered: 12-2004 |
Dear Aditya, I am not sure what it is you are trying to tell to Pledja, especially with the sentence “Spirit lessons may help you get a better view, but ultimately its all meditation.” It might be worth noting that mediation is part of the Spirit lessons. You have to keep in mind also that the Spirit lessons are studies and meditation is a tool. So advising that a tool is more important than a study, you might just want to think again. Although one can study meditation alone, it’s nothing compared to the Spirit lessons. Maybe once you get around starting the Spirit lessons you might get a better understand of what it really is. Pledja, I totally agree with your statement that the lessons are a help in taking giant leaps in understanding, and with enough study might even result giant leaps in evolution too. Salome, Badr | ||
Adityasonakia Member Post Number: 189 Registered: 07-2007 |
> ["Dear Badr, > I agree with what you say, yes actually I did not put it right. Thanks for correcting me. But, won't you gain evolution only when you make the thing you are studying a part of yourself? What I meant when I said "Spirit lessons may help you get a better view, but ultimately its all meditation." was that you gain experience and you make something a part of yourself through meditation, right? Yes you are right when you say "You have to keep in mind also that the Spirit lessons are studies and meditation is a tool". But ultimately doesn't the tool only help you reach your goal of evolution? Please correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks Salome Aditya" > ] | ||
Badr Moderator Post Number: 312 Registered: 12-2004 |
Hi Aditya, I answered your points below “won't you gain evolution only when you make the thing you are studying a part of yourself?” Yes “you gain experience and you make something a part of yourself through meditation, right?” Yes “doesn't the tool only help you reach your goal of evolution?” Yes Just incase you didn’t understand my post. All what I wanted to say is that Meditation is part of the spirit lessons. So instead of focusing on only one part of the spirit lessons why not focus on the spirit lessons as a whole. That’s all I wanted to say ;-) Salome, Badr | ||
Adityasonakia Member Post Number: 190 Registered: 07-2007 |
> ["Dear Badr, Alright, then I'll try learning the Spirit lessons also, while doing meditation. I have to get them first though, that may take a little while. You know why ;-) Salome Aditya" > ] | ||
Pledja Member Post Number: 14 Registered: 02-2008 |
Hi Badr I agree with the above Badr.It seems the only way to get a point across in this world is by starting a "revolution".If enough Earthling evolved to the level of "self responsibility" A revolution could be started which us Earth humans could benefit from.The spirit lessons could be in the center of this Revolution, This could only happen once billions of people have evolved to a level of logical thinking.If Enough loyal,honest,responsible,Logical thinking humans Studied the spirit lesson this could be a turning point in Earths history.The "falsifiers" of Jmmanuels work really have impacted todays world and the spirit lessons would balance this out and the effects would be neutral.I think The spirit that is within billy has done its job now its up to us. Pledja | ||
Barbarian216 New member Post Number: 3 Registered: 03-2008 |
Hello everyone, I'm new to this forum and have taken an unusual name for reasons that will be understood in due time. Anyways, I'll like to propose a different approach to meditation and spiritual awareness. After all there are many paths to the truth and if the Pleijarens have not yet solve the riddle of "nothingness", then you will be witness to how it can be done. It took me about two years of intense meditation in the Zen techniques. This is just a brief summary, I haven't really written down the proper procedures, because each person is unique. You must first get rid of your ego, the "self", the "I" and all thoughts, desires, "knowing the sound of a clap of one hand" is a good start. You must "empty" "your mind" of all "self" including the "self", then the emptiness void will be "filled" with AWARENESS. It will come "unexpectantlly" because "it" is in a different "realm of reality". Some people call it Enlightenment, I call it Awareness, might have different terms, maybe ask Billy? This AWARENESS will enable "you" to sense the Consciousness in living and non living things. Things like plants, animals and of course humans have different levels of Consciousness. Even written words have a "residue" of Consciousness by the person who wrote it. You can even read a person's mind and determine his/her level of spiritual evolution. Also notice its subconscious and consciousness relationship within individuals. Extreme discipline is a must, and I would suggest you have someone on hand, just in case your spirit is not strong enough to block out negative influences. Bad spirits will try to influence a person in meditation. Have a nice day. | ||
Pledja Member Post Number: 16 Registered: 02-2008 |
Hi Barbarian216 and welcome to Figu! I am familiar with most of Figu's material, The above post kinda contradicts Mr Meiers work.Its a Paradox Pledja Pledja | ||
Stafath Member Post Number: 36 Registered: 02-2008 |
Hello Barbarian216, I DO have the abilty to read person's mind somehow, I cannot do it very well yet but sometimes or times I really want I can get the idea what person is going to say or do. And I have not even meditated that much or did any Zen thing but sometimes when I have time or when I do something I also meditate on pitituary gland or pineal gland. I do remember doing once something like what you call 'Zen techniques'. | ||
Ennui246 New member Post Number: 3 Registered: 12-2007 |
Hi all . My thoughts are directed at creation giving me knowledge: read on If you want to and please add comments. I value anybodys remarks. The teachings of jmmanuel state daily work for the spiritual mind which one would suggest concerntration on the surroundings the teachings and creation. I bear witness to creation before I ever heard of billy the pleadiens and the tulmud. The day I saw it 16-17 years ago I knew (I don't know how) but it was a minute part of a energy that is extremely powerful it pushed myself and the parish priest I was with back with or chairs rocking back . So far Ive found focus is the key start by focusing on a sharp drawing look at it and picture it in your mind untill you can see a sharp image of it in your mind not easy and may take weeks or months to obtain this ability but is achievable. Through myself I feel this is the first stage of accessing the potential of your mind power spiritually. Where it can be focused on other what is required. With this power we change anything we want to change obtain anything we want to obtain. regardless of predictions. We can apply this new technology to anything we want to. Remember our capabilities are the same as the paladiens they are just more advanced, this is totally new, to most of us but has existed since time began.You don't have to be a super human to use this energy you just have to be alive RE: breathing. A moped or mini bike does the same job as a $500,000 Ferrari its a mode of transport A moped is much slower but it still gets you from A to B. My Message to you all this world is great and will get better for only those who choose to use this knowledge that was handed to us on a platter. Every thing with F.I.G.U. and billy and the Tulmud , God , Jesus, is a belief to me and I don't dispute any of these findings. BUT I have SEEN CREATION WITH MY OWN EYES ,AND FELT IT,IT IS REAL AND thank you Billy and everyone that helped me put the pieces together. DON"T BELIEVE IT I KNOW IT | ||
Pledja Member Post Number: 26 Registered: 02-2008 |
Hi And welcome Ennui246 Certain things just hit you deep within your conscious that you can actually feel it! The thought alone creates the feeling of "truth" | ||
Ennui246 Member Post Number: 13 Registered: 12-2007 |
Pledja Big hello Its like I have a new existence. Thank who ever for the forum so we can get the resonance of the spirit out. Any way I've left some crazy posts here which I take full responsibility for. And sorry if I have annoyed anyone. Just one question to anyone who can advise . When I meditate I get a lot of interferance in my thoughts. Things pop up out of nowhere , I heard of billys copper pyrimid and was going to make a full sealed helmet like cover out of copper , would anyone know if this would block out other waves??? Too the new world that was the oldest llllove | ||
Badr Moderator Post Number: 331 Registered: 12-2004 |
Dear Ennui, There is a topic called Meditation that you can ask such questions. Just look around and you will find it. Salome, Badr | ||
Phi_spiral Member Post Number: 296 Registered: 03-2007 |
*This is a continuation of a discussion string from: The Planet Earth>>Personal Relationships Matthew: “The sense of Empfindung as fine feeling is therefore somewhat synaesthetic, comparable to the fact that music arouses sentiments/feelings or even images, colours, and tactile sensations, although it is, itself, only sound.” No. Sound would be the mechanical transference of sound waves to the ear drum converted to electrical signals sent to the brain. Music would be what the brain makes of it next. Music is the collective of the notes and the space between the notes. The psyche may respond to the brain’s music with emotions or it may not. And one may remain neutral and still appreciate its’ aesthetics. There are many reasons to explain an emotional response including cultural and past memories. What I speak of is a feeling preceding the emotional response. That realm of feeling where distinguishing by words between beauty and love has not formed. Beautifully designed architectural, is frozen music to me. Yet I can admire that beauty while remaining emotionally detached. So in that sense Empfindung is not synaesthetic. Regards Bob | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 200 Registered: 10-2007 |
Hi Bob and Matthew, Aside from the distinction along the SPECTRUM of feelings (from the purely emotional, to the feelings which comes with intuitive insight)... G.I. Gurdjieff presented his theorum that any feeling (from whatever origin along the spectrum) moves at a rate some 10,000 faster than thought. Salome Someone Shared Their LOVE Today. Was It YOU? J_rod7 | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 203 Registered: 10-2007 |
Greetings All, In Peace, To continue the subject on the spectrum of feelings... Thoughts are generally in the language and symbols of language. Listen to your own thoughts... are they not indeed in your native language.? It would be the 'translation' of thought into symbolic language which is why thought is slower. Feelings, on the 'other hand', are expressed as a flow of energy. As Feelings, from whatever 'source', or event 'trigger', have a range of meaning in both a negative or positive sense, feelings also express in a range of intensity. The energy of the feelings also are in a range of frequencies (which gives rise to the multitude of color in the aura). Intensity and frequency combine to give power to the dimensional 'reach' of feeling(s). This power is the driving force of telepathy and other psychic abilities. Salome Someone Shared Their LOVE Today. Was It YOU? J_rod7 | ||
Matthew_deagle Member Post Number: 138 Registered: 08-2007 |
J_rod7, Thoughts in the general sense are just semantics and syntax together, like a generalised unit of language/Logos. The feelings in human beings, the psyche, are actually a part of thoughts, and not separate from them--they are a phenomenon of the Being/semantic side of thought, which then produces a self-reflexive awareness within the thought, allowing it to modify its own syntax and evolve. The Being of thought is both Bewusstsein and Psyche--the psyche being the internal sense of Bewusstsein. The basic idea of a thought is a syntax which is able to alter itself through drawing upon Being/energy, so for instance spiritual energy is drawn in by the thought's presence as a half-material being, which motivates the production of the Psyche aspect of thought, and allows the thought to self-reflect and self-modify, which means that, in fact, every thought is automatically capable of a kind of free will and self-determination. This means that, in effect, since thoughts use spiritual energy, there is nothing that a thought cannot ultimately accomplish, if it is able to control the energy that goes into its semantic/Being. The more it draws upon this energy, the more self-determined and therefore controlling of its effects the thought is. Mind you, the being of the thought itself corresponds to Bewusstsein/consciousness, and not merely the feelings of the Psyche, which is also an aspect of the thought's being. Thus, the Bewusstsein/consciousness must grow for the energy of being to become sufficiently accessible that a phenomenally significant 'free will' becomes evident--and this results in finer thoughts, which then have a more intricate and intense being, which includes finer and more intense feelings. The "spectrum" of feelings depends wholly on the "spectrum" of thoughts--that is, being corresponds to, or is bounded by and structured as forms. Feelings, as a semantic phenomenon and an aspect of the being of thought, can only be changed if the boundary/form of the thought changes, which, as I have stated before, can be done by the thought to itself. Brain-emotions are not thoughts or feelings, but are a kind of structure that develops as a consequence of thoughts, which is triggerable in conjunction with certain thought-systems within it being stimulated. These can only be broken up and changed preemptively by meditative focus of energy upon the reordering and transformation of the forms of the thoughts involved. An example of a thought is what you think when you look at a word on a piece of paper, e.g. the word "Snow". The thought has a complex syntax consisting of a number of changing forms, which, together with the relationship of these thought-forms with other thoughts in the Bewusstsein/consciousness, constitutes the being/Sein of the thought. It is an automatic consequence of this being that psychic feelings emerge as a reflexion of the being, and thus also as a part of the being which will stimulate new thoughts, changes in thoughts, and awareness of thoughts through this, etc. Salome, - Matthew | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 204 Registered: 10-2007 |
Hello Matthew, Yes, I agree with you. The feeling energy arrives first to trigger the linear syntax of thought symbols. It may be considered like a nuclear reaction - the neutron with high kinetic energy collides with the nucleus of an unstable element (like plutonium) which causes the fission process. The unstable nucleus splits into fragments of lighter elements, photons, additional neutrons, and free electrons, which all together gain more kinetic energy from the release of the atomic binding energy. In the sense of the spectrum of Human feeling, the energy is provided from the Spirit, ie. Spiritual energy drives the power behind the emotions. As the thoughts follow the emotional energy, they can produce multiple lines of thought fragments, along with a predominate thought expressed as a response. This predominate thought may also take one or several paths in response, such which as to trigger the release of hormones, stomach acids, heart rate, and other types of physical manifestation at a basal level. The fragments of occult-unexpressed thoughts may also generate additional emotional feelings which gains and spawns additional energy. This same process is at work in the higher levels of consciousness as a 'complex' of interaction, as in the example of the nuclear process. So we are essentially saying relatively the same thing, considering your reference to the complex structure in the brain-emotions. In this complex, the 'trigger' is internalized and more accessible in the linear reaction than an external 'trigger'. However, rather than "breaking" any structure (as I think you mean in the sense of a 'conditioned response'), the meditation more tends to modify and modulate associations arising from the feelings. Nothing is broken, as energy is never lost from the system, only to be re-directed. Salome Someone Shared Their LOVE Today. Was It YOU? J_rod7 | ||
Matthew_deagle Member Post Number: 139 Registered: 08-2007 |
J_rod7, Basically correct, except about feeling does not 'arrive first'--it is a reflexive aspect of the thought itself, and therefore, if anything, the thought arrives 'first' (essentially simultaneously, but the feeling does not exist without the thought, and the effect of reflexion from the feeling must occur after the thought). If it appears that a feeling arrives first, this is because it is a reflexion of a subconscious, rather than a conscious, thought. Any time there is nervous system activity in a human being, this is a physical manifestation of the fact that a thought of some kind is present--and the psyche is a kind of half-material reflexion of the nervous system, as well as a reflexion of the activity of the brain, whose activity is centred behind the sternum. In the simplest logic, if it is a feeling, then it is part of the being of a thought, but if it is part of the being of a thought, it need not be a psychic feeling. Salome, - Matthew | ||
Phi_spiral Member Post Number: 298 Registered: 03-2007 |
Matthew The main ideas in your Post 138 above, is taken from the writings of Julian Jaynes such as The Origin Of Consciousness In The Breakdown Of The Bicameral Mind. You have taken his ideas/theories, thrown in a few of Billy’s terms and created a hybrid. The problem is the way you present it. Many people reading that post might get the false impression that it is from the spiritual teachings or that it is accepted fact. This causes confusion. It is imperative for clarity and understanding that it is made clear up front, what is from the Meier material and what is from another source. This is easily done. Thank you. | ||
Matthew_deagle Member Post Number: 140 Registered: 08-2007 |
Phi_spiral, No, the ideas in that post are not based upon Julian Jaynes' research, and in fact are discussed in detail by Semjase in the Contact Notes. The chart of spiritual evolution she gives clearly states that the will develops after Verstand has reached a certain evolutionary level. Billy discusses the nature of thoughts in der Psyche and in his books on meditation. Furthermore, the information in post 138 is just based upon logic and philosophy, and not on any particular scientific research, although it is confirmed by much research, as you have pointed out by mentioning Jaynes' book. Salome, - Matthew | ||
Phi_spiral Member Post Number: 299 Registered: 03-2007 |
Matthew, the idea about words having the generative potential for additional thoughts comes right out of Jayne’s book. Here is a side-by-side comparison of your post #138 with Jaynes’, The Origin Of Consciousness In the Breakdown Of The Bicameral Mind: Matthew: “An example of a thought is what you think when you look at a word on a piece of paper, e.g. the word "Snow". The thought has a complex syntax consisting of a number of changing forms, And now Jaynes, p.57 : “Consider the metaphor that the snow blankets the ground. These associations of blanket then automatically become the associations or paraphrands of the original metaphrand, …” Also, consciousness on ‘free will’: Matthew: “…consciousness must grow for the energy of being to become sufficiently accessible that a phenomenally significant 'free will' becomes evident…” And now Jaynes, p.345: “…just as we in this latter age have no ‘free will’ unless we believe we have.” And your ideas about thoughts, semantics and syntax can be found in other articles. Here is one example: Implications for Syntax, Semantics, and the Language of Thought, by Annabel Cormack, Mind & Language, Volume 16, Number 3, June 2001 You cite legitimate concepts from the Meier material but it is all blurred together in a hybrid and becomes burdensome to sort out what is what. All I ask is that you reference your sources. Regards Bob | ||
Matthew_deagle Member Post Number: 141 Registered: 08-2007 |
Bob, Those weren't my sources, but thanks for finding natural-scientific research and theory which confirms my statements in post 138. As I have already stated, that the free will is a product of thought is a rather integral part of the spirit-teaching that Billy presents, as well as logically follows from the fact of spiritual evolution. It is good to introduce scientifc evidence as corroboration and manifestation of these facts, but they follow from logic and direct experience and can be discovered purely metaphysically. It is a stupid modern philosophy which ignores the foundations of science (logic) in favour of materialism. Also, that a thought follows from thinking about a word is rather tautological, isn't it? Salome, - Matthew | ||
Matthew_deagle Member Post Number: 142 Registered: 08-2007 |
Bob, With regard to my sources, as I have said, the basic point is just to lay things out in a logical way so that a person can confirm it with logic, their own thinking, that does not need to rely on the opinion or data of a 'source'. The best place to get inspiration for these cognitions is the Contact Notes and the Spirit Teachings as published by FIGU. If any of this is confirmed by natural-scientific research and experimentation, it should come as no surprise, given that science is based upon abstract logic and internal cognition, anyway. I have not heard of Annabel Cormack, personally, but with regard to Jaynes, I do think that he used a lot of logic and thought experiment to come to the conclusions he did, which must correspond in some wise to the truth, since human consciousness certainly has evolved since we were protozoa and tree-men! Salome, - Matthew | ||
Phi_spiral Member Post Number: 300 Registered: 03-2007 |
Matthew: “Those weren't my sources, but thanks for finding natural-scientific research and theory which confirms my statements in post 138.” The truth is, Matthew, you have already studied Jayne’s theories and his book, The Origin Of Consciousness In the Breakdown Of The Bicameral Mind. You are on record as stating such right here on this forum. In fact, you have been talking about his theories since you’ve been posting here: From your Post #46: “…bicameral state of human self-consciousness, corresponding to Julian Jaynes' theory..." From your Post #62: “…this does tie in with Julian Jaynes' theory about the Bicameral evolution of human self-consciouness" From your Post #87: “According to the theories of Julian Jaynes,…” Perhaps it just became easier for you to come up with similar ideas independently and on your own after reading his book. And it is just a coincidence that two of your passages were so identical to two of his. There are other sources besides Annabel Cormack that discuss syntax, semantics and thought. But it doesn’t matter. The real point here is regardless of whether they are someone else’s ideas or your own - they are not Billy’s. You need to make it clear what is from the Meier material, what are your own ideas, and what are someone else’s ideas. The way your Post 138 was written blurred the lines, because there are no such distinctions being made. Anyone reading that post can see that. Regards Bob | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 206 Registered: 10-2007 |
Hello Matthew, I'm sorry, but I think you have gone too far here...: >"since human consciousness certainly has evolved since we were protozoa and tree-men!"< That's pure Darwinism. You can't be serious.! Human Spirit is ALWAYS Human. The Plejarens have even informed us that apes evolved from experiments done by Humans. Salome Someone Shared Their LOVE Today. Was It YOU? J_rod7 | ||
Matthew_deagle Member Post Number: 144 Registered: 08-2007 |
J_rod7, No, that's not pure Darwinism. The Plejaren have informed us that life emerged multiple times on Earth as unicellular organisms, and that all human lifeforms are descended from a separate lineage from the flora and fauna lineage, which first emerged as unicellular organisms with the purpose of evolving into human lifeforms (Menschen). Quetzal spoke of how several million years ago human ancestors were ape-like primitive creatures who lived in trees. This is the logical fact of evolution--humans just evolved along a different lineage in order to become enlivened with human spirit-forms. This lineage then interbred with the most evolved of the flora and fauna lineage (monkeys) to produce the great apes, and, in fact, our ancestors then interbred with these great apes to produce us. Salome, - Matthew --- Bob, I did not say that Julian Jaynes' has not inspired me. Of course I have read TOCIBOTBM, and even recommended it here various times! (The reason for this being that it confirms the Plejaren information about spiritual evolution, when considered logically and in context.) I said that these ideas about thoughts and consciousness follow from logic, and are not dependent upon the truth or falsehood of his theory. You seem to want to portray it otherwise, though--that these are somehow Jaynes' ideas, when these ideas are discussed by the Plejaren in more detail and more logically. Salome, - Matthew | ||
Phi_spiral Member Post Number: 301 Registered: 03-2007 |
Matthew: “I did not say that Julian Jaynes' has not inspired me. Of course I have read TOCIBOTBM, and even recommended it here various times" Then why word this originally as if it was new to you?: “Those weren't my sources, but thanks for finding natural-scientific research and theory which confirms my statements in post 138.” Matthew: “I said that these ideas about thoughts and consciousness follow from logic, and are not dependent upon the truth or falsehood of his theory. You seem to want to portray it otherwise, though--" Actually no, Matthew. That was not in your original post #139 of which I have been addressing, but was something you added later in your post #142 as some sort of damage control to cast your original post in a different light. I referenced two specific ideas from Jaynes book that were worded in remarkably similar fashion in your post #138 and which I placed first and foremost in my post #299. And I added that there were other sources for your discussion about semantics, syntax and thought. Matthew: “…that these are somehow Jaynes' ideas, when these ideas are discussed by the Plejaren in more detail and more logically.” If the Plejarens said it better, then post it the way the Plejarens said it and not the way Jaynes said, or the way Matthew-came-up-with-independently-and-said-it or anyone else for that matter. Would it not make more sense to simply post the original German and then comment on it: adding what you have learned from other sources and your own insights as well? Don’t you think that would provide more clarity? This is the intent of my persistence - to get across to you the proper way of conveying information from the Spiritual Teachings on this forum. This is my only message to you. So Matthew, are you willing to do that? Regards Bob | ||
Matthew_deagle Member Post Number: 147 Registered: 08-2007 |
Bob, I'm just posting what I say about these matters right now, the matters of thought discussed by Billy are discussed in detail in the books die Psyche, Einfuehrung in the Meditation and Meditation aus klarer Sicht, etc. Buy these and get a German-English dictionary! It's a general phenomenon in science that valid theories are confirmed by multiple persons. I'm not sure what your motivation is to be irrationally antagonistic about this matter. Salome, - Matthew | ||
Phi_spiral Member Post Number: 302 Registered: 03-2007 |
Matthew: "I'm not sure what your motivation is to be irrationally antagonistic about this matter." The rational is quite simple, Matthew. It is to maintain the integrity of the Spiritual Teachings as presented by Billy Meier and the Plejarens and not create a Matthew Deagle hybrid of them. The way you had written your post #139 was ambiguously written as to sources of information. I suspect purposely so. It would have been an easy matter for you to identify which were your ideas, which were someone else's ideas and which came from the Meier material. I have stated this to you several times. What you interpret as antagonism is simply someone asking you to act responsibly in your postings. What is irrational is your unwillingness to acknowledge that. Regards Bob | ||
Peter_brodowski Member Post Number: 414 Registered: 01-2004 |
hey there bob, matthew and moderators, i dont mean to butt in, but i would like to say that i was infact misled by things in matthews posts. so i agree with bob. i think for someone as inteligent as matthew, it would be stupid to post information without refrences, considering he knows german and seems to have high moral standards. he seems to have a habit of putting everything together like mush. no offense to matthew but if one could take a look at jacob, and how he presents his opinions and the quotes from the spiritual texts, it is a very big contrast. i really think jacob would be a great spiritual teacher someday, he seems to only require the meier material to make his points, without veering off into theories of this or that person. and the ideas he shares come off quite clear and you do not end up wondering from which source did he get his information from. when jacob posts i dont see the slightest sign of a "know it all" or attention seeker, and that's not the case with some others for me. that's just my impression, i hope i'm wrong and matthew means well here, but many question marks circle around my head in regards to his "style" of posting. and it mildly pains me to see bob have to take 5 or 6 posts and not even get an aknowledgement from matthew. i'm no fisherman but i smell something fishy. my suggestion is that if anyone wants to post billy's info on spirituality and the like, then to list the source, page and paragraph and all. because in light of the discussions here lately, i foresee many long posts and "arguments" for lack of a better term. and while it was of some help to make an argument, i got tired of arguing and feel there are better ways to get points across, and number one would be to respect everybody and give credit where credit is due i dont mean to suck up to jacob, that's my honest opinion. | ||
Badr Moderator Post Number: 355 Registered: 12-2004 |
Hey Peter, Some good points you raised there. It has been continually brought to the attention of the forum members that if information is mentioned in relation to different theories one should name his sources, so some people can verify it or to sepereate FIGU and Non-FIGU from each other. It hasn't worked until now. Matthew is not the only one that does that currently. The only thing I can say is that if you or anyone else reads the information first hand you will be able to separate the wheat from the chaff. Most of the posts would take too much time to correct all the mistakes here or to verify its authenticity. Which is partly because some others and I on the forum are still at the beginning, compared to the German forum were the core group member Hans for example is over 20 years exposed to the material first hand. Salome, Badr | ||
Matthew_deagle Member Post Number: 149 Registered: 08-2007 |
Peter_brodowski, I agree with you that, with regard to information in FIGU publications, it is preferable to cite page #s and even to quote and translate text. I cannot do this in regard to this discussion right now, though (which is the only reason why I have not, and instead only cited whole books), because I am in the middle of moving my things. I will be able to cite a few illuminating quotes for you on the matter of thoughts and feelings, etc., in a copule of days, likely. Salome, - Matthew | ||
Peter_brodowski Member Post Number: 415 Registered: 01-2004 |
hey badr and matthew, yes you are right, we can seperate the wheat from the chaff for ourselves. matthew, much appreciated, the topic of thoughts and feelings is an interesting one | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 207 Registered: 10-2007 |
Greetings to All, In Peace, I get a feeling to say "now kids, let's all play nicely together." But, more seriously, sometimes it's a good idea to 'sleep on it' before composing antagonistic exchanges. Acrimonious displays do little to advance the spirit. I confess that I have been guilty of such myself in the past. In regards to the concepts of feelings-emotions-thoughts, I find that Bulletin #38 presents some excellent logical ideas. This bulletin may be found currently at futureofmankind.co.uk/. Matthew, I did find that your statement= >"...except about feeling does not 'arrive first'--it is a reflexive aspect of the thought itself, and therefore, if anything, the thought arrives 'first' (essentially simultaneously..."< does agree with Billy's statement in this bulletin #38. However, my opinion now is that this may work in BOTH directions - thoughts trigger feelings whereby there is an increase of (spiritual) energy; and ALSO feelings will trigger the thoughts which call for response, alternatives, or action. Peter, I also appreciate the postings from Jacob, and look forward to his continued participation in these forums when he finds the time. Salome Someone Shared Their LOVE Today. Was It YOU? J_rod7 | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 211 Registered: 10-2007 |
Greetings All, There is a theory expounded by Matt C. Keener on Quantum Resonance, which I find germane to the discussion at hand. Quantum resonance describes a unity of consciousness. >"There are limitations to logic. Nevertheless, human culture tends to ignore this and apply logic with empiricism to validate all “significant” reality. This extreme empiricism may distort our perspective because logic oversimplifies the complexity of life by breaking it into pieces that only resemble the unbroken original. "This tendency to oversimplify things with language lies at the heart of quantum resonance theory, and makes the theory very difficult to explain. "A quantum resonance perspective assumes that the medium of life is consciousness. Everything is composed of consciousness, and alive – even objects that appear inanimate are expressions of a living consciousness. "Also, any quantum resonance identity is a relational complementarity; therefore, life is filled with paradox – an identity that confounds the linear limitations of logic. "With this being said, the fuzzy exists in a relational complementarity with the discrete."<. By 'fuzzy', he means to refer to our agreement (or disagreement) on the assignment of symbolic language. This excerpt is from >"AN INTRODUCTION TO QUANTUM RESONANCE THEORY"<, and may be found following the link at: http://www.xmission.com/~mkeener/ to the essays. Much more, of course, is to be found in these essays. Salome Someone Shared Their LOVE Today. Was It YOU? J_rod7 | ||
Badr Moderator Post Number: 361 Registered: 12-2004 |
Hi Rod, In case you missed the announcement page http://forum.figu.org/us/messages/3163/392.html?1212261431#POST33403 Your post above would have been alright if you mentioned it in the context of FIGU material. For example by comparing it to some text published by FIGU that would encourage a deeper understanding of the FIGU material, and in turn will help new comers separate the views of FIGU and the other scientific world. So in the future if you would like to discuss things like Quantum Resonance and various essays you can by comparing or expanding on the ideas available in the teachings or the FIGU material, or don't post it. PS: this comment applies to your other post on the topic "Creational Laws and Commandments" too. Salome, Badr | ||
Scott Moderator Post Number: 1486 Registered: 12-1999 |
Hello, If it is true that cause and effect exist universally throughout the universe, than the universe being unfair is illogical. While it may seem as one looks at his or her life that there are things which don't appear to be just or fair, this has nothing to do with the universe, but rather with our own individual lives and what we have created for ourselves. Its hard to know what a person did or what experiences thay may have had in their last lifetime, and what may appear to be unfair in this lifetime, could be the result of things they generated in earlier times. I think this topic heading needs to be changed to something like "why does it appear the universe is unfair with each life".... Regards Scott | ||
Trevor Member Post Number: 71 Registered: 05-2007 |
My understanding is that Creation and the meaning of life has nothing to do with being fair or unfair. That is just something humans percieve and like to live in accordance too. | ||
Edward Member Post Number: 1149 Registered: 05-2002 |
Hi Scott and Trevor..... Trevor, very well put! Example: If our World - Overpopulation - was not that great, we would live and exist in a much more Balanced/Equilibrium Living Environment. Thus: the Overpopulation IS Illogical. Thus, we do have to keep in MIND, that living in a School, if you will, like Earth, with 7 Billion plus human beings, does...bring much calamities, with it. This Overpopulation Problematic, only Greatens the Unfairness...even more. The Universe/Creation, if you will, we should not define as being Fair or Unfair, I would say. She is just doing her job, so to speak as we all are. So, we must not forget, and to recognize, that this has nothing to do with the Fairness or Unfairness of the Universe or (The) Creation. We human beings act in an 'illogical' manner, which Generated this problematic, in the first place: thus, NOT the Universe or The Creation. WE, put ourselves into such an Unhealthy Inhumane Predicament: NOT The Universe or The Creation. If, we, in the first place lived and Adapted the Creational Laws as we should, our Outcomes/Effect....would have been much and much Rosier, so to speak. Thus, WE, are put in such Predicament, by our own Erroneous Human Actions. No one else to blamed but: MAN HIMSELF! Edward. | ||
Sitkaa Member Post Number: 10 Registered: 10-2004 |
If fair and just are synonymous, where is the dutiful justice, righting the many wrongs associated with living? How does the universe compensate for the imbalances? Do we live in an open ended reality, one in which anything may happen? I think yes, else the universe would not have come into being in the first place. This does not mean that the chaos theory is incorrect, only that it does not always apply. There is is another (element?, process?, law?) by which the universe abides. That said, it would seem that purpose of life is to grow. How we do it is up to us. I wonder how exactly to understand the ramifications of reciprocity. What are its limits? When does it apply? How minor must some infraction of some pattern be before reciprocity comes into play? I wonder these things as I ponder when to let go of the past, when to move on: Who determines personal responsibility (the self?) It is better to forgive and forget, but in so doing are we allowing a repeat of the same infractions? Accentuating the positive, while giving no energy to the negative, this to me appears to be best. But letting go of the past, especially through its repititous patterns takes abit of self-discipline. Any comments would be welcome. P.S.: Does anyone have any thoughtful input on using ibogaine to reduce to patterns of addictive behaviors. Would you prescribe some other system? An induced NDE perhaps? Thanks, Michael Michael, I think you know, no one can endorse the use of any form of chemical compound, natural or man-made on this forum. No type of recommendations will be allowed to be posted. If you feel the need to pursue this, please do so via e-mail. Thanks Scott Love is always the way | ||
Sitkaa Member Post Number: 11 Registered: 10-2004 |
Apologies, I was unaware that considering the use of a quasi-legal drug (ibogaine hydrochloride) was an indiscretion. I am not interested in the arbitrary and capricious morals fomented by the insular coterie of men who run my country, so why should I respect their laws? My self-limits and morals are both self-determined and hard won. But this is your message board, I am only the grasshopper here, so I apologize. I am not much of a computer geek, and barely know how to use this message board thing. I don't know what your email adress is, so hopefully this will get to you without causing any more trouble. Love is always the way | ||
Markc Member Post Number: 666 Registered: 06-2000 |
..."arbitrary and capricious morals fomented by the insular coterie of men ..." Sitkaa ; Can I qoute you on that ? After all , the subject if irgocreme or whatever it is was brought up, so don't think that anyone is mad or that there are other bad vibes associated with it . Even Carl Carpf can come and discuss rational topics if he was interested in learnng . There would be no grudges . etc. I hope I haven't said the wrong thing. Ta Kind Regards , Mark Mark Campbell | ||
Markc Member Post Number: 667 Registered: 06-2000 |
Can I quote you on that ? typo crrected MC Mark Campbell | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 243 Registered: 10-2007 |
Hello Sitkaa, You have raised some important issues, which I would like to address here. > "...righting the many wrongs associated with living? How does the universe compensate for the imbalances?" < The 'Universe' is always in Balance. The Universe IS, in actuality, the living embodiment of Creation. From the limits of the time-scale of our own lives, we may PERCEIVE life to be unfair or out of balance. This is only temporary. Consider how many lifetimes we may live through all our individual incarnations, count the 'time' in Billions of years. Then remember that your own spirit comes FROM Creation, and endowed with free will while you journey through all your material life(s). Your destiny is to evolve and return to oneness and wholeness again with Creation. Along the way are great adventures, great loves, and great living. >? "There is is another...law?..by which the universe abides." < There is only ONE law by which the Universe abides. This is (are) known as the Law(s) of Creation. All other laws, such as the laws of the natural order, the 'laws' of mathematics or physics, or the 'laws' of governments (many of which are 'political-controls'), are sub-sets of the laws of Creation. True, not all 'laws' are just. It is up to the people to demand the change of the unjust laws in order to achieve a Just social order. The Laws of Creation are immutable. > "is (it) better to forgive and forget"? < Forgive = yes; forget = no. But first forgive yourself. As to addictions, talk to your doctor. Salome Someone Shared Their LOVE Today. Was It YOU? J_rod7 | ||
Sitkaa Member Post Number: 12 Registered: 10-2004 |
Howdy J_rod7, I think your statement is very well put. "The Universe IS, in actuality, the living embodiment of Creation." That is Exactly what I get the sense of, with particular emphasis on the quiet, pervasive 'IS'. Can there be a more fundamental definition of life than the creative process of 'is'? And yet, still I maintain more than one perspective, more than one sense of self. To accentuate the the dichotomy, consider this: 1. Certainy we all have a sense of self, whether we recognize it or not, that plays a part of the greater whole, a conscience if you will. 2. And just a real is the more commonly accepted sense of self that anyone who thinks has, the delineated sense of me that protects its boundaries and is afraid to release itself to the apparently fickle winds of absolute reality. Which of these perspectives 'should' garner more precedence? From the wholistic perspective, perhaps this answer depends upon the circumstances? From the boundary driven perspective, the answer to that question is that the sense of self always takes precedence. So which do I listen to? I complain abit. I dip my toes this way and that. That is what this posting board seems to be for. "There is only ONE law..." It must be nice to have things so tidily comprehended. My understanding of things is such a jumble of messiness. I know it is all very simple at its root, but one begets two begets many very quickly. I have been prancing around with an idea for awhile: starting a webpage that would, among many other things, allow people to discern their own universal laws, and post them somewhere as reminders for themselves. The idea actually came from reading abit about the Meier material, so perhaps it is best mention it here first. Forgiving oneself is truly no easy task. It is far easier to forgive everyone else for their character flaws, or for simply playing a role, or however you might see it, than it is to forgive oneself for the same thing. This is one of my addictions. There ain't no allopathic leach that would help me here. I gotta be my own doctor. That's why I was asking what wisdoms this board might have. But I s'pose that is outa bounds. Salome Love is always the way | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 244 Registered: 10-2007 |
Hello Sitkaa (Michael), Integrate both "1." AND "2.". Seek wholeness in the expression of your self in all aspects of your being. This will be your 'vision-quest'...: Face whatever you fear head-on. Let it wash over you like a great surf rolling in from the ocean. 'swim' through the other side and feel cleansed when you emerge. Walk then ever after in the light of Truth. Salome Someone Shared Their LOVE Today. Was It YOU? J_rod7 | ||
Markc Member Post Number: 669 Registered: 06-2000 |
Well written , great Kahuna ! Mark Campbell | ||
Melli Member Post Number: 350 Registered: 06-2005 |
The "12 Affirmations" by Billy are meant to be repeated 3 times: 3 times at one sitting, so to speak, or 3 times throughout the day? And as I understand the other Affirmations that were translate by Clemmm, can be repeated as many times as one wishes during the day, is that correct? Thank you,b. | ||
Adysor Member Post Number: 100 Registered: 03-2008 |
Hi all, I understand neutral approach....-/+ is neutral or balanced right? But I remember Billy often used the term "positive neutral"... I mean can this even exist? if it's neutral a bit toward positive...than it's just positive (-)........|....(+) Or am I not getting something? Adrian. | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 382 Registered: 07-2004 |
Adrian, I understand it to describe a persons natural direction towards anything before them to be of worth or a true value in life, regardless of the appearance it may hold. When a loved one passes from us, most people will immediately cling to the loss rather than cherishing the love that was enjoyed during the lifetime of the deceased. A simple cliche is also accurate, " The glass is always half-full, not half empty". Maybe your ascribing electricity to this idea. ;) a friend in america Shawn | ||
Indi Member Post Number: 234 Registered: 06-2006 |
the term is 'neutral positive' neutral positive = harmonious balance Robjna | ||
Adysor Member Post Number: 102 Registered: 03-2008 |
I wish that would be enough Kingman but I still don't get it why Billy uses the term neutral positive. Just because a saying says the glass is always half-full, not half-empty it doesn't mean it's true. A glass can be half-full as well as half-empty and it would mean the same thing. And no i'm not attributing electricity to this idea though... Adrian. | ||
Edward Member Post Number: 1182 Registered: 05-2002 |
Hi Adrian.... - Neutral Positive - is indeed as Robjna mentions. That is the correct definition, in Billy's terms; and in the Teachings, in general. When Billy means - Neutral Positive -, he is referring to a Neutral(Positive) Stance One should take and Strive for/to, when there is for example a conflict. - Not taking sides -, if you will. [Even though, One may have a Preference to one of the sides/parties.] Thus, Analyse your Thought processing with Neutral Positive Thoughts, and to created as well, a Neutral Positive....out-come. When Neutral Positive, in general...is utilized, One is not TOO UP or even TOO DOWN(Negative). One is in the/a state of Equilibrium, if you will, in Thought and as well in Spirit (and Consciousness). Sometimes being (TOO) POSITIVE does NOT help much, which can occur. Because when One encounters a Negative result, here from, One will surely become very Down/Sad. And of course being (TOO) NEGATIVE does also NOT help much, either, which can occur. Because...when One is Negative, in general, this does not contribute or have benefit to One's Though processing, as well as One's Spirit (and Consciousness)...and coming result/out-come. But, it can occur, that if One is Negative, in Though(s), that One can encounter a Positive result/out-come. Which is very Positive for the individual...to his/her surprise...of course. Thus, from the just above mentioned scenario, it would be more Wise....to apply and adapt - Neutral Positive - into this/the scenario/One's Life. Than, if there is a sudden Negative out-come: it would be much easier for One to absorb and digest it, if you will. And even if there is a Positive result/out-come, One would indeed, also, be quite 'Modest', in Being. [Which I have learned also, through my life experiences.] Edward. | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 384 Registered: 07-2004 |
Yes!, ...the Teachings give the truest meaning to whatever we contemplate regarding Billy's wisdom. Of course, he is the source. Through my attempts at actually causing my thoughts to frame these empowering words Billy shares to help the human condition, and without cheating and looking at the answers to the test questions, I corner myself into putting out a response. The best ones, regardless if they are truly accurate or not, are the ones I write down. My actual level of understanding crystalizes into a definable position. Robjna and Edward complete this lesson with the clear worded idea Billy intended. And thank you both, as well as Adrian. I know the search tool readily provides these answers, but my actual physical involvement becomes meager clicks of my mouse. I am a sad selfish wisdom hound. ;) The 'harmonious balance', that describes, 'neutral positive'(N/P), is a difficult state to maintain within our world currently. I do feel my nearness to this condition sometimes and I notice friends are more apt to ask advice or will listen to my words with a true desire to grasp what I am sharing with our conversation. When I drift further from being N/P, I am hard pressed to pass on suggestions and such, and friends are noticeably less eager for advice, etc. It's with less and less frequency I raise the volume of my voice in discussing subjects I am interested about as I get older. It seems to me, if we also lived nearly a 1000 years our spiritual growth would bring a natural course to the N/P state in a single life personality. The cards are truly stacked against the Earth Human. a friend in america Shawn | ||
Redbeard Member Post Number: 30 Registered: 04-2006 |
Hello Edward and all you wonderful electronic friends, What is your take on the meaning of the phrase "positive consciousness-bearing" it is used a lot in Billy's teachings and it seems like the translation is not coming through for me. Here is a short clip from Billy's teachings related to thoughts and meditation. "A meditative basis to the positive consciousness-bearing consists in the value that the consciousness is steered by corresponding meditative thoughts and feelings and is consciously formed. The meditative form with this consists in that certain thoughts are consciously cultivated again and again, through which corresponding feelings are triggered, which manifest themselves in the psyche in a beneficial and positive-balanced way and form this, whereby the consciousness is stimulated in the same manner and a consciously positive consciousness-bearing emerges." I think it's the use of bearing that is making it outside of normal english for me and used in this context. Is there another way to say this and still convey the correct meaning? Redbeard | ||
Indi Member Post Number: 236 Registered: 06-2006 |
I usually don't mind commenting here and there on issues such as you raised Redbeard, however, your so-called 'quote' is in English, and is not referenced, and therefore it is not Billy's but someone elses translation. Please everyone, give a reference with eg., title of the work it came from, the author and the page number. Also, if you include the original German, then that is even more useful. This is an ongoing request that seems to fall on deaf ears. Robjna | ||
Redbeard Member Post Number: 31 Registered: 04-2006 |
The source is a web site which is displaying both german and english. I don't know the book it's from but you will probably know when you see it. http://clemmm.googlepages.com/Meditation_aus_klarer_Sicht_239-240.html Thank you, Redbeard | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 281 Registered: 10-2007 |
Hello Redbeard, In researching your question, there is this, which is similar in context to your reference. From the website at: http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Meditation_from_Clear_Sight {Title in English:} Meditative basis to the positive consciousness-bearing {Title in German:} Meditative Grundlage zur positiven Bewusstseinshaltung ***The translation of "Bewuss...ung" is: 1.=Awareness Attitude, 2.=Consciousness Bearing, 3.=Consciousness Attitude. So then: A SHIFT IN CONSCIOUSNESS TO A POSITIVE ATTITUDE. Text in English:... The true wealth of the meditative basis to the positive consciousness-bearing rests in the true insight and in the true knowledge, learning and experience, that the omnipotence of one's own thoughts and feelings steers all functions and processes of life as a whole. Opposed to this is the blind belief in an all-directing god and in amulets that fend off calamity, magical talismans, ritualistic acts and hallowed places of worship, holy rituals and relics, consecrated shrines, hallowed and holy water, holy breads and wines, etc. Knowledge is, in its essence, wisdom and positive-neutral power, in comparison with which belief is a lack of understanding and a phenomenon of intellectual-feeling-related as well as psyche-consciousness-related, misdirected mechanisms without knowledge regarding the Creational-spiritual and Creational-natural laws and directives. From this it clearly and definitively follows that recognition, knowledge, learning, experience and wisdom are alone the true factors that exhibit real values and are evolutively effective and build a positive basis to the positive consciousness-bearing, while, in contrast to this, the belief is a path to destruction and devolution and leads to insanity and confusion as well as to a perturbed consciousness-bearing. Text in original German:... Der wahre Reichtum der meditativen Grundlage zur positiven Bewusstseinshaltung fundiert in der wahren Einsicht und im wahren Wissen, Erfahren und Erleben, dass die Allmächtigkeit der eigenen Gedanken und Gefühle alle Funktionen und Prozesse des gesamten Lebens steuert. Dagegen steht der blinde Glaube an einen allesrichtenden Gott und an unheilabwehrende Amulette, zauberkräftige Talismane, Kulthandlungen und geheiligte Kultstätten, heilige Rituale und Reliquien, geweihte Schreine, geheiligtes und heiliges Wasser, heilige Hostien und Weine usw. Wissen ist in seiner Essenz Weisheit und positiv-neutrale Macht, Glaube dagegen ist Verständnislosigkeit und ein Phänomen gedanklich-gefühlsmässiger sowie psychisch-bewusstseinsmässiger fehlgesteuerter Mechanismen ohne Kenntnis in bezug auf die schöpferisch-geistigen und schöpferisch-natürlichen Gesetze und Gebote. Daraus geht klar und eindeutig hervor, dass allein Erkenntnis, Wissen, Erfahrung, Erleben und Weisheit die wahrlichen Faktoren sind, die reale Werte aufweisen und evolutiv wirksam sind und eine positive Grundlage zur positiven Bewusstseinshaltung bilden, während gegensätzlich dazu der Glaube ein Weg der Destruktion und Devolution ist und in die Irre und Wirrnis sowie in eine gestörte Bewusstseinshaltung führt. Hope this helps you in your progress. Salome Someone Shared Their LOVE Today. Was It YOU? J_rod7 | ||
Indi Member Post Number: 237 Registered: 06-2006 |
Redbeard, thankyou for providing the source. With regard to the term "Bewusstseinshaltung" -- if you break the word into two, you get Bewusstseins-haltung. Consciousness, is the usual translation for Bewusstseins, although 'awareness' can also be used at times, but in these writings it is probably more accurate to use 'consciousness'. Haltung, is a word that can be used to describe how something is held in place -- and can be used for the body such as 'having a good posture' -- also for the mind eg., 'one's countenance or demeanour, stance, attitude etc...... Therefore, when being used with 'consciousness', and in this context of 'how to achieve a positive consciousness state/state of consciousness through meditation'-- you can see what it likely means. A good way to get a feel for what a word means is to find the concept being proposed, and if you look it up in a dictionary with all the uses of the word -- and then you can see all the different applications of that word. Here is a link to a dictionary I use often for this purpose, as it is laid out well so you can see all the options. If you put the word 'Haltung' in, you will see my point. http://dict.leo.org Exact translation is less important in my opinion, than the meaning being conveyed and the context often leads you to that. Robjna | ||
Redbeard Member Post Number: 34 Registered: 04-2006 |
Thankyou, J_rod7 and Indi, This will be a great help in understanding some of these texts. Has anyone stuck with this particular meditation and for how long? I've been somewhat consistent and seem to notice more focus and balance. Redbeard | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 283 Registered: 10-2007 |
Hello Melli, Adrian, and to All Salome, Melli, As to your question: "...3 times at one sitting, so to speak, or 3 times throughout the day?" >"The meditative thoughts and feelings are cultivated again and again by thinking or muttering several times daily - three to four times - a specific sentence for about five minutes and exercising deliberate attentiveness on what is spoken. The one and same sentence may have a use for a single day or for several days depending on need, more precisely, for as long and often till the content of the sentence has become consciously self-evident."< {Source: clemmm, 239-240} So, 3 or 4 times throughout the day is suggested. There is not any upper or lower limits set for the practice. The key is: exercising deliberate attentiveness. By this means, your attitude and awareness is consciously attuned in the desired direction. Adrian, To become neutral, IMO, is to become DETACHED from the process or outcome of events. That is, for example, avoiding emotional attachments to personal problems, or events in our immediate environment, or global occurrences over which we have no input or control. Such as in: to view a bad accident can teach us how to avoid such things. The positive aspect, is to see that there are POSITIVE results in every event, and in every relationship. Then, Neutral-Positive is to accept that everything and everyone is as it is, and to see it all moving in a positive direction. Salome Someone Shared Their LOVE Today. Was It YOU? J_rod7 | ||
Edward Member Post Number: 1186 Registered: 05-2002 |
Hi Redbeard/Matt.... As you can notice: there is always some kind of translation error, not? I think Robjna and Rod, filled in very appropriate. That should give you more Insight, to the matter. Edward. | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 286 Registered: 10-2007 |
To All, An important distinction is made in considering the meaning of being Neutral-Positive. This thinking is a result of examining various sources of translations. In particular, meanings of translated ideas in context. Also, Adrian gives an excellent diagram which triggered this thinking: (-)........|....(+). If we wish to attain to a truly 'neutral' aspect in our being, to the balance in our feelings, in our psyche, in our approach to the world, then we are looking for this : {-}***|***{+} Neutral-Positive is to accept that everything and everyone is as it is, events are what they are, and to see it all moving in a positive direction. Avoiding emotional attachments to personal problems, or events in our immediate environment, or global occurrences over which we have no input or control, is to be detached from outcomes. Events flow over us like a stream of water over a rock. This is, in effect, to move through life with a an attitude of contemplation, acceptance, with an inner peace, knowing that all-that-is is in accordance with ALL-THAT-IS, the Creation. That all events have Positive benefits, whether we understand them or not. There is something to learn from everyone. Even those "bad examples" have some positive contribution. Salome Segnen Sie dieses Haus im Friedens J_rod7 | ||
Jpm Member Post Number: 58 Registered: 06-2008 |
J_rod7 wrote: Adrian, To become neutral, IMO, is to become DETACHED from the process or outcome of events. That is, for example, avoiding emotional attachments to personal problems, or events in our immediate environment, or global occurrences over which we have no input or control. Such as in: to view a bad accident can teach us how to avoid such things. The positive aspect, is to see that there are POSITIVE results in every event, and in every relationship. I agree and that is also how the advanced live a happier life because they eventually, slowly learn to enjoy the life that was meant for them, through the laws of cause and effect. In other words, Let the tide take you and the ocean will keep you afloat... "if central truth was a reality at lowly levels of the human-psyche, evolution would not be possible." - Jay (Jpm) | ||
Phenix Member Post Number: 34 Registered: 07-2008 |
Hi Kameraden, Is there then no danger of falling into fatalism, passivity and the like? Salome. | ||
Jpm Member Post Number: 59 Registered: 06-2008 |
Phenix, maybe i am overlooking the post but, i don't see anything posted by a user calling himself/herself... "Kameraden"........ salome "if central truth was a reality at lowly levels of the human-psyche, evolution would not be possible." - Jay (Jpm) | ||
Phenix Member Post Number: 35 Registered: 07-2008 |
Hi Jpm, Old habit; i meant to address the forum, particularly J_rod7 and yourself. So don't you think that, '...Let the tide take you and the ocean will keep you afloat...' could lead to fatalism? Salome. | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 388 Registered: 07-2004 |
Jpm, Your statement," Let the tide take you and the ocean will keep you afloat...", does not correlate to what Billy teaches. That sounds as worthless as, 'Let go, let God', many religious teachings push. Your weak in your comprehension of the basics of Billy's information. Cause and effect have little to do with what you attempt to explain. Do yourself a favor and actually read the materials. a friend in america Shawn | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 287 Registered: 10-2007 |
Greetings in Peace, Jay, Kameraden = Comrade or Comrades {German = English}. And thank you for your kind words in your prior post. Phenix, Fatalism, or nihilism, is the rejection of all spiritual and moral principles, often in the belief that life is meaningless. A Philosophy of extreme skepticism maintaining that nothing in the world has a real existence or meaning. We see the true meaning of life in the Evolution of our Spirits toward Creation. Our vision, then, is exactly the opposite of those who would wallow in fatalism. By setting our moral compass to the light of Truth, such nonsense is avoided as we maintain our course in a neutral balanced journey throughout all our lives. Then, being engaged with, and occupied in, the growth of Truth, this is an active process - certainly not passive. This process takes energy, will, desire, study and effort - anything except passive. Achieving a Neutral-Positive state of mind is a 'shield' from such dangers as passivity, fatalism, and the like, and makes our path ahead more clear for us. Salome Segnen Sie dieses Haus im Friedens J_rod7 | ||
Jpm Member Post Number: 63 Registered: 06-2008 |
Note: it seems two informative posts of mine have decided to be moderated out of the forum, unless i am lagging or they are being considered. Kingman, i am not going to explain or cite the meaning behind my words.. (Let the tide take you and the ocean will keep you afloat...). Because clearly it's of no use to you. You have completely misunderstood and made assumptions regarding their meaning. If you read my words in the context of the prior sentence, my meaning is clearly implied... "if central truth was a reality at lowly levels of the human-psyche, evolution would not be possible." - Jay (Jpm) | ||
Phenix Member Post Number: 36 Registered: 07-2008 |
Hi J_rod7, The English word 'Comrades' has indeed changed into the German word 'Kameraden' in my post, since i am now actively busy with the German Language - i consider the 'equality','common purpose','objective and constructive criticism','solidarity'...which this word supposes, to be suitable in addressing this Forum, instead of, for instance, Mr, Mrs, Sir, Ms, Gentlemen... I share most of your understanding of the Neutral-Positive state of mind, in the sense that you - contrary to Kamerad Jpm, it seems to me - do suppose here a conscious, actively purposive involvement of oneself:"energy, will, desire, study and effort". You do not state that whatever happens, is for the best - for we could otherwise take such a stance to its logical and utmost consequences and conclude that there is nothing wrong(or at least, there is ALWAYS something POSITIVE(Jpm))in turning the Teaching of Immanuel into cult Religions; in the Falsification of The Creational Laws; in the blind materialism of current Humans; in Overpopulation; in Pollution; in the use of nuclear, neutron, atomic boms or the irresponsible tests of such weapons undergrond or in the atmosphere... This could definitely lead to nihilism, passivity, cynicism, for all would be judged relative(the current trend in the so-called 'enlightened intellectual clubs') and there would be no solid grounds, principles or Truths. What would then be the sense of The Mission? Fatalism has, however, a slightly different substance in my understanding, that is, the acceptance of the absolute power of the concepts of 'Karma', 'Destiny' and the negation of Human Free Will and Co-creational Qualities. As for the stance of Kamerad Jpm:"I agree and that is also how the advanced live a happier life because they eventually, slowly learn to enjoy the life that was meant for them, through the laws of cause and effect. In other words, Let the tide take you and the ocean will keep you afloat..."; there is not much that indicated that our Noble Friends, the Plejarens, passively got to the point where they are now and that they just learned to and are just enjoying the Bliss, the eternal and divine beatitude which was - somehow, somewhere, by someone - meant for and bestowed upon them. I have all reason to suppose that they had/have to make choices, use their reason; they worked hard and they still do. Furthermore, instead of putting all trust in the ocean, one could as well decide not to get into the water, in the first place - especially if one can not swim! Salome. | ||
Hector Member Post Number: 406 Registered: 04-2006 |
I think JPM's sentence "Let the tide take you and the ocean will keep you afloat..." may be his own metaphor and invention, but i think it has some value. You can compare the tide with the creational laws and commandments of creation; If you swim against the tide, you drown.(You degenerate, you inflict damage upon yourself). On the contrary, if you swim with the tide, then you are safe and you do what is meant to be done...you'll have a reward. In real life there are just two possibilities for the human being, to comply with the laws and commandments of creation , or to dismiss them. You swim with the tide or against it. 95% of the terrestrial population is swimmming against the tide. And they will drown.( Spiritually speaking, they will fail, they will not succeed reaching their evolutionary goal). To swim with the tide (to comply and apply creational law) immediately means success, evolution and survival.That's my explanation and i find that phrase valuable if not taken out of context.... | ||
Phenix Member Post Number: 37 Registered: 07-2008 |
Hi there, The following might help clarify the meaning and ways of reaching a Neutral-Positive state of Mind: [...] "If the human being wants to be himself, then he must exercise no hostility, in fact, not even against his most wicked enemies and antagonists. If firstly the attacks and problems, etc., of antagonists are not considered as his own concern and are turned away as such to the attackers, then it is considered as more progressive form to peacefully confront the antagonists. This is to be done in such a way that they are kindly, lovingly and peacefully met, and also that during frequent and as-daily-as-possible opportunities, wishes of love and blessings are mentally and feelingly sent to them. This, on the one hand, prevents hostility towards the antagonists themselves from building up, and on the other hand, through this develops a valuable self-protection that prevents particularly evil thoughts and feelings and thereby malice, hate or the need for revenge, etc., from developing. The entire thing in fact has such an effect that, in general, everything has a beneficial impact on his own personality and on his own character and, out of that, a completely neutral-positive balanced attitude builds up." [...] (German Original) "Will der Mensch sich selbst sein, dann darf er auch keine Feindschaft üben, und zwar selbst gegen seine übelsten Feinde und Widersacher nicht. Werden erstens die Angriffe und Probleme usw. der Widersacher nicht als eigene Sache betrachtet und als solche auf die Angreifer zurückgewiesen, dann gilt es als weitere Form, sich den Widersachern friedlich gegenüberzustellen. Das ist in der Art und Weise zu tun, dass ihnen freundlich, liebevoll und friedlich begegnet wird, wie aber auch, dass ihnen bei häufigen und nach Möglichkeit täglichen Gelegenheiten gedankliche und gefühlsmässige Liebes- und Segenswünsche zugesandt werden. Das bewahrt einerseits davor, gegen die Widersacher selbst Feindschaft aufzubauen, und andererseits entsteht dadurch ein wertvoller Selbstschutz, der davor bewahrt, dass eigens üble Gedanken und Gefühle und dadurch Bosheit, Hass oder gar Rachebedürfnisse usw. entstehen. Das Ganze bewirkt auch, dass sich allgemein alles segensreich auf die eigene Persönlichkeit und auf den eigenen Charakter auswirkt und sich daraus eine völlig neutral-positive ausgeglichene Haltung aufbaut." [...] (Herr Meier, 'Being oneself') The whole article is to be found at: http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Being_Oneself Salome. | ||
Aletha Member Post Number: 13 Registered: 07-2008 |
Thanks for the link, Phenix! Those words from that article "being oneself" are just beautiful! Giving out neutral-positive love to your loved ones and your enemies (and everyone in between) is the answer! Blessings to all, Maxine | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 288 Registered: 10-2007 |
GruBe im Friedens, These are thoughts we may ALL gain from::... 95. Therefore, always maintain your neutrality in regard to all attacks against your person or against your mission. {And each of us, our mission in life. (J_Rod)} 96. Learn to control yourself in these things and to always stay calm, because that is the best weapon and the best defense against any attack. 124. The teaching of the truth should, in the distant future, lead to the raising of the entire terrestrial humanity, and indeed thereby that every individual human, in his higher self, consciously recognizes his creational spirit and its characteristics, and also brings into effect the spiritual values in his outer being, in his personality. 125. Be told, however, that you must learn and practice tolerance so that you will not be partisan or unjust regarding religious beliefs of humans. {Tolerance even in the face of all adversity. (J_Rod)} 126. Only that qualifies you to teach the humans in truthfulness, so that they, little by little, are able to free themselves from their dependency on lower powers. 95. Verhalte dich also immer neutral gegenüber allen Angriffen gegen deine Person oder gegen deine Mission. 96. Lerne dich in diesen Dingen zu kontrollieren und stets ruhig zu bleiben, denn das ist die beste Waffe und die beste Verteidigung gegen jeden Angriff. 124. Die lehre der Wahrheit soll in weiter Zukunft zur Erhöhung der ganzen irdischen Menschheit führen, und zwar dadurch, dass jeder einzelne Mensch in sich sein höheres Selbst, seinen schöpferischen Geist und dessen Wesenszüge bewusst erkennt und die geistigen Werte auch in seinem äusseren Wesen, in seiner Persönlichkeit, zur Geltung bringt. 125. Dir sei jedoch gesagt, dass du Toleranz lernen und üben musst, um nicht in bezug auf den religiösen Glauben des Menschen parteiisch oder ungerecht zu sein. 126. Nur das befähigt dich, die Menschen in Wahrlichkeit zu belehren, damit sie sich nach und nach von ihrer Abhängigkeit niederer Kräfte zu befreien vermögen. These words are from Sfath to Billy From: http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Sfath%27s_Explanation Salome Segnen Sie dieses Haus im Friedens J_rod7 | ||
Phenix Member Post Number: 38 Registered: 07-2008 |
Grüß dich zurück, J_rod7, Danke schön für deine Erklärung und Ergänzung und auch für die Seite auf 'Futureofmankind' - sie ist sehr lehrreich! Kamerad Aletha, danke für die warmen Worte. I think that the Idea of purpose, the Will to consciously achieve something positive is permanent in the Neutral-Positive Attitude; the results could be - for different reasons - different, but the intention remains pure and generous. The more i advance in the reading of materials related to the Spiritual Teachings, the more the feeling that the Neutral-Positive Attitude - specially in dealing with other Humans - an important key is towards the understanding of a number of crucial things, gets strengthened. Here, for instance: [...] Practice getting along well with everyone but do not lose yourself in the process and always remain within the limits of your ability. Übe dich darin, dich mit allen Menschen gut zu vertragen, ohne dich dabei selbst aufzugeben und je nach dem Mass, wie dir das möglich ist. Always respect your fellowmen as fellow human beings, although they may have dispositions that differ from yours; indeed, even the worst among them is a creation of Creation, hence, everyone is just like you - a human being. Achte stets deine Mitmenschen als Menschen, wie sie auch immer geartet sein mögen; selbst der schlimmste unter ihnen ist ein Geschöpf der Schöpfung und daher deinesgleichen - ein Mensch. State your truths freely, clearly, calmly and candidly, for only in this manner is an authentic picture created which defines the true nature of everything. Sag stets frei, klar, ruhig und offen deine Wahrheiten, denn allein durch sie entsteht ein Bild der Wirklichkeit, das die Dinge beim Namen nennt. Allow other people to freely express their opinions, for they are allotted the same rights as you. Lasse auch die andern Menschen ihre Meinung sagen, denn ihnen ist das gleiche Recht gegeben wie dir selbst. Listen to others, to the bright and intellectual individuals, and also to the obtuse, the foolish and those who lack learning, for they, too, have opinions and statements to offer. Höre also auch die andern an, sowohl die Gescheiten und Intellektuellen als auch die Dummen, die Einfältigen und Unwissenden, denn auch sie haben eine Meinung und irgendwelche Dinge zu sagen oder zu erzählen. But distance yourself from aggressive, boisterous and obstinate individuals so as not to become embroiled in their pointless disputes, for such people insult one's consciousness, humaneness and refinement; and yet, at the same time, forget not that they too are beings of Creation, whom you, as a fellow human being, must show appropriate respect, even though you may find their thoughts, feelings, deeds and actions unacceptable. Meide aber angriffige, laute und rechthaberische Personen, um nicht mit ihnen in sinnlose Dispute zu verfallen, denn solche Menschen beleidigen das Bewusstsein, die Menschlichkeit und die Bildung; vergiss dabei aber nicht, dass auch sie Wesen der Schöpfung sind, denen du als Mensch gebührende Achtung entgegenbringen musst, auch wenn ihre Gedanken, Gefühle, Taten und Handlungen nicht akzeptabel sind. [...] (Herr Meier, 'Desiderata') http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Desiderata_%28Desirable_and_Vital_Items%29 The 'Desiderata', this powerful piece of Work, is for me the Ultimate Manifest of the Social Teaching of Herr Meier; a kind of 'ABC' of the right, balanced Way of Living, Thinking and Doing, a Golden Path to the Neutral-Positive State of Mind, which should be the Genuine Nature of Mankind. A discovery/ rediscovery of 'Desiderata', the thorough analysis of their depth and their application through understand could be a massive step towards the Inner Harmony we long and crave for. Salome. | ||
Phenix Member Post Number: 39 Registered: 07-2008 |
PS: J_rod7, The link(a pretty important one!) you provided in Post 288 is better accessed here: http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Sfath%27s_Explanation Salome. | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 290 Registered: 10-2007 |
Grüß Phenix, and to All - Salome, Ich werde geehrt, Ihr schöner Geist werde begrüßt. Desiderata is truly a deeply meaningful expression. The link of my Post 288 is an active functional link, you only need to click upon it to go directly to the site. A note to all on posting website 'links'. To post a functional link, you can use the 'link button' (found above the message composite space). It's the one between the U and the . At the place you want the link, click one 'space', then click on the link button. A little window opens with = HTTP:// already there, don't erase it. Then either type-in OR 'copy and paste' the FULL URL, from the www to the end, and click OK. The complete formated link will be at the bottom of your message. If you need to place it in a different part of your post, simply 'cut and paste' the whole thing where you want it (ie. at the 'space'). Moderators please note this was my #277, posted >>Mission >> New Ideas..., and would be useful to re-post here. Vielen Dank. Salome Segnen Sie dieses Haus im Friedens J_rod7 | ||
Phenix Member Post Number: 40 Registered: 07-2008 |
Guten Abend, Kamerad J_rod7, Es ist immer eine wahre Genüge deine Post zu empfangen. Danke schön für die nützliche Auslegung - ich kenne nicht viel von der Technik, aber Übung macht den Meister, nicht wahr? Bleib Neutral-Positive! Salome. | ||
Jpm Member Post Number: 83 Registered: 06-2008 |
hector wrote: I think JPM's sentence "Let the tide take you and the ocean will keep you afloat..." may be his own metaphor and invention, but i think it has some value. You can compare the tide with the creational laws and commandments of creation; If you swim against the tide, you drown.(You degenerate, you inflict damage upon yourself). On the contrary, if you swim with the tide, then you are safe and you do what is meant to be done...you'll have a reward. In real life there are just two possibilities for the human being, to comply with the laws and commandments of creation , or to dismiss them. You swim with the tide or against it. 95% of the terrestrial population is swimmming against the tide. And they will drown.( Spiritually speaking, they will fail, they will not succeed reaching their evolutionary goal). To swim with the tide (to comply and apply creational law) immediately means success, evolution and survival.That's my explanation and i find that phrase valuable if not taken out of context.... my post: I agree and that is also how the advanced live a happier life because they eventually, slowly learn to enjoy the life that was meant for them, through the laws of cause and effect. In other words, Let the tide take you and the ocean will keep you afloat... If you care to, reread my post... You didn't understand it. I will explain it to you even though it is self-explanatory. You have reversed my meaning. I was saying the opposite of your understanding. The tide represents all the hardships of life. The ocean represents the creational laws. If you know that the universe works in perfect conjunction with cause and effect, than, you also know much of your life is already determined for you. What I implied was that if you accept the hardships that you were/are given and work with them instead of fighting them, your life will be easier. hardships=tide creational laws=ocean Jpm has dedicated his life to his neutral-positive spirit consciousness... | ||
Peter_brodowski Member Post Number: 445 Registered: 01-2004 |
hey to everyone, i was wondering, has billy or the plejarens ever mentioned anything about people or groups (of earth origin, citizens of countries on earth) using impulses to affect people like the core group or even supporters of billy in general, to negative degrees? perhaps going by example of the giza intelligences? like a constant bombardement of vibrations that steer one away from reason and truth and perhaps result in a person taking an interest in things like false contactees, thule society, and similair things. in other words, steering toward the occult and away from the spirit teachings. my attention is always aroused by strange behaviour, and i think of the many possibilities. it is my observation that questions to billy seem to be more and more repetative, posts are becoming more personal. And new charachters pop in who's motives dont seem so clear and upfront, but they sure do post very often. some are just new to the forum and dont know as much as some others, and some are just lazy. But a place like this, given the importance of billy and support for him, it would be careless to assume that there are'nt some snakes lurking around waiting to bite at the ankles of the people on the road of truth. it would be interesting to think that there are people out there who employ every tactic possible to reach a goal, no matter how small the effect seems. even this little post will have an effect, and theres no guarding against it, bcause you've already read part of my post. just some stuff i was thinking about, how easy it is to pull someone out of there element so to speak. on a similair note, i wondered about something else... i recall reading somewhere that the thule society screen themselves with strong psychic forces. why on earth would anybody put a defense when there is no one attacking. usually, if someone is not being attacked, there is no reason for a defense or a shield, unless that person or persons are hiding something. well, just thought i'd share some fun thoughts with everyone. | ||
Corey Member Post Number: 79 Registered: 10-2007 |
from what I have read in KB one regarding Billy's trip with Asket, then later in Guido's book with the removal of the Bafath now the physical threat is gone but we have lingering aftereffects if you will, things the majority of mankind are still dependant on. in Bulletin 61 there is an article titled Zwischen Wirklichkeit und trügerischem Schein which is very good http://www.figu.org/ch/files/downloads/bulletin/figu_bulletin_61.pdf?download I guess no matter who we are, we are still learning and because we are used to being in a state of either positive or negative instead of the creational nuetral positive, some may try to distract so they do not have to work at learning the creational mindset of nuetral positive, or just prefer to interblend or just read the forum instead of studying books which is individual choice. And really all of us who want to follow Billy's advices currently have to work hard to try and acheive nuetral positive, practice meditation, etc. and none of us are really experts some just work harder then others. Often I wonder if the quiet ones are working harder then I do, but what has helped me is reading the Psyche and studying Billy's meditation book on a schedule. | ||
Corey Member Post Number: 80 Registered: 10-2007 |
i.e. often the quieter ones seem to teach me the most alonside the more well read individuals. | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 313 Registered: 10-2007 |
Warmest Greetings to All To bring you all to Awareness of a 'news' posting on http://www.theyfly.com/ For any who have not yet found it, this is a very interesting copy of the Lecture for the General Assembly of the Passive Members, presented by Mariann Uehlinger, held on 24 May 2008. Find this Under the Heading Section: The Spiritual Teaching, and the link is titled: On Spreading The Teaching Of The Spirit This is a file in PDF format, which you may save to disk or print-out, if you wish. A Direct Link to this file, is this: http://www.theyfly.com/newsflash94/Lecture_for_GA_for_MH.pdf Salome From One Eternal Spiritual Being to All Others, Awaken to Your true Essential Being J_rod7 | ||
Jamesm Member Post Number: 97 Registered: 02-2006 |
Thanks Rod! I've printed it out...I seem to have messed up pages 1 and 2 because I forgot to open the front tray where it comes out.... I'm reading And Still They Fly! at the moment too but this will provide an interesting interlude! Thanks James G. T. Moore Webmaster www.futureofmankind.co.uk | ||
Phenix Member Post Number: 75 Registered: 07-2008 |
Vielen Dank, Herr J_rod7! Salome. | ||
Matthew_deagle Member Post Number: 208 Registered: 08-2007 |
Hector, In response to your Post under 'Contact Notes'; Yes, Shifts of Consciousness do take Time and Effort on the Behalf of those Affected. However, they also ever begin with a small Number of Men and Women (usually more Women than Men, I find) who are ahead of everyone else in this Relation, who then draw the whole Mass forward through planting Germs and standing as Examples before others. Such Shift must be voluntary and free, but also driven by strict Adherence to the Truth and honest Teaching of the Wist and Announcement of the Known. It is best and only and alone correct to act violently non-violently in the Enactment of this Shift, and one may do much more Damage to Unrighteous Practises with the simple Curse of one's neutral Disapproval than one might ever achieve through crude Wieldage and Manipulation. This goes too for such unmanly Practises as Dyson and Vivienne faced, for the Bewitcher must first bewitch himself, and to respond to his Bewitchment neutral-positively turns its Craft back at him. This does not commend Passivity nor Ignorance, which make one a Victim, sunder the strongest Form of Rock Solidity in Wisdom, which annihilates all Evil and instates a Silent Revolution. Salome, - Matthew | ||
Pathfinder Member Post Number: 24 Registered: 10-2008 |
We are all aware of the spirit powers of telepathy and telekenisis. Scientists are now experimenting with the human brains ability to manipulate objects via computer using nothing more than the thought impulses of the brain. By using the same type of skullcap adorned with electrical sensory devices they can attach a persona brain to a computer and have that person control specific units which are also hooked up to the computer. For example, a person can literally have a word typed into the computer and spoken via its speech program using nothing more than their mental thought to select specific letters to form their words. In other examples, a computer hooked up to a mechanical arm can be manipulated by thought impulses of a person who is also plugged into the computer via electrodes hooked up to their brain. This is the beginning of scientific advancement into the actual utilization of the power of the spirit which they do not even recognize yet. they see it as the simple electrical assets of the brain, but we know it to be far more than that. the new age is upon us! "Therefore nothing may mislead him to un-truth and falseness, because his entire BEING is in the creational cognition of infinite truth." Contact 18:62 | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 442 Registered: 07-2004 |
Matthew, "It is best and only and alone correct to act violently non-violently in the Enactment of this Shift, and one may do much more Damage to Unrighteous Practises with the simple Curse of one's neutral Disapproval than one might ever achieve through crude Wieldage and Manipulation. This goes too for such unmanly Practises as Dyson and Vivienne faced, for the Bewitcher must first bewitch himself, and to respond to his Bewitchment neutral-positively turns its Craft back at him. This does not commend Passivity nor Ignorance, which make one a Victim, sunder the strongest Form of Rock Solidity in Wisdom, which annihilates all Evil and instates a Silent Revolution. Your above quote is the best example of your disingenuous attempts at placing problematic, uncharacteristic descriptors of Billy's teachings onto the plate of others who are researching this incredible material. The mumbo-jumbo belongs at the forums of the 'Wizards and Witches World'. Whatever your describing, does not in any form resemble a perspective of the teachings. Terms such as, 'Bewitcher, Bewitchment, Craft,' belong in a spell book. This says that your not pondering the effects of your statements on others reading your posts, or your purpose driven and don't concern yourself in this matter of producing confusing effects on others. You are free to do this all you want. Neither should be permitted in my opinion. Try starting a new forum so your drive to pick up where A.C. left off can continue unchallenged. The idea here is to understand more from each other, not create a source of erred dynamics. Your insistence on performing your word mastery at this forum, which feels like your research into the various occults( like A. C.) is a part of this style, and begs to be stopped. The use of Dyson's and Vivienne's situation, embedded amongst your diatribe spell casting, is downright disgusting. Would you please explain yourself with a clear simple definition, what actually do you expect to accomplish with continuing to deliver script that is confused in its reach. Billy has mentioned a correction within the common English parlance is unmanageable for anyone. Many non-native speakers of English, which this forum has many, are not being helped with your methods. I think your traveling a path with a selfish twist that I do not comprehend as being beneficial to others. People come here for clarity in their search of the truth, only to find your growing postings of more of the same 'Mystery School' spiel. a friend in america Shawn | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 361 Registered: 10-2007 |
* *** Can I get an amen Thank You Shawn, You write my own Thoughts in that Regard. I'm just going to sit back and see if He 'gets It'. Salome *** * From One Eternal Spiritual Being to All Others, Awaken to Your true Essential Being J_rod7 | ||
Markcampbell Member Post Number: 15 Registered: 10-2008 |
Well Shawn , let's break it down and give the devil his avocado . MD is only interpreting Billy's words with his own meaning , weaving witchcraft imagery into the Geisteslehre as if it were relevant to it , and turning everything into his own school of thought . Every nuance an assault , especially since he posts here every single day , as if it were a job requirement . The avarage fly by browsing this site might look upon his self apointed teaching of the material as if it were official . Most peculiar . Promote him to field agent ,give him a badge , I say . | ||
Gaiawingz Member Post Number: 8 Registered: 01-2008 |
Markcampbell; Get a life. Matthew is not a government agent. Simply because you don't understand why he pursues the refinement of English as he does -- does not mean you have a valid reason to time and again accuse him of being an agent. Perhaps your time would be better spent actually studying language and attempting to understand why Matthew addresses the things he does, etc. rather than simply being wasted demonstrating your imbecile nature in attacks upon him. Just a suggestion. Peace, - Gaia | ||
Hector Member Post Number: 435 Registered: 04-2006 |
Hi Gaia, Matthew Deagle has neither Billy Meier's endorsement in order to use a supercharged, overcomplicated "English on steroids" nor he has the endorsement of the majority of forum users to do the same. I will accept his writing style if he gets explicit endorsement from FIGU to do that. Until then, i permanently put his posts in quarantine status. Not a personal ad-hominem argument, i'm just questioning if that writing style is suitable. I welcome his extraordinary learning efforts and strenght to help the Mission, but i'm not thrilled about his unique, unortodox, radical and at times ununderstandable (for non english speakers like me) writing style. The eternal form over function debate. Form: Study the teachings in their original german language (advisable, priority). Function: To liberate human beings from false teachings, wrong concepts and bad habits so they can fulfill their evolutionary task as "managers of creational law". These two premises are quite clear to me. | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 448 Registered: 07-2004 |
Gaia, We are in the section of misc. matters of the Spiritual Teachings that are not covered in any of the other sub topics. I am absolutely certain you will not find an agreeable reference to anything in the Spiritual Teachings that refers to this cultic vomit.... " This does not commend Passivity nor Ignorance, which make one a Victim, sunder the strongest Form of Rock Solidity in Wisdom, which annihilates all Evil and instates a Silent Revolution Where have we heard that term ' Silent Revolution' before..hmm? Oh wait! I know! It would be the title of Michael Horns newest movie about Billy and the Mission. !!!!!*****Annihilate, Evil instates a Silent Revolution****!!!!! Sorry, I'm just not buying it anymore. Prove my error in thought and I will concede without comment. a friend in america Shawn | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 449 Registered: 07-2004 |
Hi Hector, Thank you for this clear, basic reminder, "The eternal form over function debate. Form: Study the teachings in their original german language (advisable, priority). Function: To liberate human beings from false teachings, wrong concepts and bad habits so they can fulfill their evolutionary task as "managers of creational law". " The Spiritual Teachings are extraordinary for what they represent to humanity, and for each of us. Allowing a pattern of confusing information in the midst of what we are trying to learn of a powerful, difficult subject, makes no sense, i.e., illogical. We could ask for an, 'Illogically Presented Distracted Interpretations for the Spirit Teachings that Billy would Not Agree With', sub-topic. Just to be fair(fairly stupid). a friend in america Shawn | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 464 Registered: 07-2004 |
For observations of my ideas on the importance of having a clear accurate dialog on the difficult comprehension that deals with the most misrepresented subject of our time, spiritual knowledge, I notice an avoidance to challenge my ideas. I will not assume this makes me correct. The silence does tend to speak loudly. Spiritual Knowledge, as worded by Billy, and through the authorized translations, avoids associations to the teachings that persist in the many false belief systems. Any attempts, in any form, that crop up in the midst of the dialog of serious researchers/students, stand naked in the field. It's hard not to notice them. While we all are on an individual path of free will, intentionally repeated actions to impose distortions to other seekers on their path, can be seen as an illogical activity. Sure we learn from our mistakes, but to do something repeatedly and expect a different result is a repeated mistake. This might be acceptable if each mistake is separated by a lifetime. Billy explains that our material-mental sicknesses are not affecting the spiritform. I say anything that opposes our ability to transition false thinking into the true reality of our spiritual nature, slows our advancement for the spirit to gain its desire for greater wisdom/love/logic on its path. We see the false teachings and the effects its had on society through the ages. This hasn't harmed the spirit, but it has effected it. There may be an argument that the distortions we confront here on this FIGU forum are the examples we hold up to distinguish the truth. I can live with that, but can we at least label it as such. The different levels each of us are evolving on, and that includes the many that do not post, or are guests just reading the posts, will have an individual response to any post that is "naked in the field". To know what effect that has on each individual is not possible, but we know what its history tells us. Billy serves the Mission as best he can. His example can only be duplicated by us in the sense of our best abilities. Meaning giving what we can for what we have understood. To over reach our balance(neutral/positive), that which makes it possible for us to be in a position to help others, can only be seen as unbalanced, positive/positive. To the average reader, it would seem like the P/P unbalanced condition is a helpful positive pathway. Any person, who knowingly attends to a continuous, that is reoccurring, path to distort the learnings of others, is unbalanced. How could it be different. Work is required for the person in an unbalanced condition before a correction can be realized. The first step is to realize the imbalance in a honest way to oneself. I think the next step would be to set aside any pride and discover what you can from others who you know will offer honest advice if they can(knowing enough of what is affecting you). All who contribute here should be of the thinking mind that wishes to help others when possible. It's not always possible. It takes overcoming being wrong in the spotlight before some of us reach out to attempt helping others. I guess it has something to do with how much wisdom a persons spirit has been triggered to re-associate to its newest personality. I've written a little what I think makes a person reflect on what wisdom have they brought forth from their conscious actions of truly helping another. It's the deadly fog that is endangering our piece of Creation, that we can remove with the knowledge/wisdom/love etc, our spirit contains. I know I'm not a great writer, just doing the best I can, consciously. Salome, a friend in america Shawn | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 468 Registered: 07-2004 |
Hi Matthew, I'm going to ask you to explain yourself in your last post of this topic. The one I have commented on in the last few posts of mine. I've waited for some response seeing how your posting in other topics. I've made some strong examinations of your statements which you are now avoiding like the plague. Are you not willing to defend your statements? That would be a first for you. Please explain your reasons for spending time to write in such a way. Or am I right and you have nothing say? We deserve an explanation if you feel it's OK to continue posting elsewhere, but not answer my statements. Very unbalanced of you. Please, I ask you to respond and clear this up. a friend in america Shawn | ||
Markcampbell Member Post Number: 24 Registered: 10-2008 |
Nicely expressed , Shawn . You've given this some thought , in layers . MC | ||
Thomas Member Post Number: 512 Registered: 03-2004 |
Hi everyone. This message is placed in this section as it relates to a general statement about the spiritual teachings of Billy Eduard Albert Meier. First I would like to point out that many of those here on the forum are making a big mistake as I see it. Judging only by the words posted (although they might have been misinterpreted on my part), it seems that many of you are turning Mr Meier's teaching into the same sort of religiously followed dogma that he seems to want to avoid. It struck me hardest when one of the newer forum members said "guide me" to those of us already here. The point is that noone is our guru nor our appointed guide. Even Mr Meier has emphatically stated that noone should just believe him. It is our choice to believe him or not, but in fact what we SHOULD be doing is investigating the truth of all that we have questions about ourselves rather than saying "Where did you read that?" or "Did BEAM say that?" or similar things. I understand that it is nice to be able to refer to where something is written, but it has gone beyond that here on the forum. Mr Meier would likely be the first to tell us all that just because he has written something, does NOT mean we should accept it just like that. In order for the truth to become the truth to each of us personally, it cannot just be read or heard and accepted. That would be nothing more than belief. The truth becomes the actual truth to US only when it has been proven to us by ourselves. This can happen through direct experiencing of a truth, by reason and logical thought associated with known facts, and probably in other ways. The point is that noone should ask others to lead them. Asking for assistance is not the same. When you ask to be lead, you are equally opening yourself to be mislead if your thinking is not clear and correct. And as a side note, though still related, the discussion about homosexuality falls into the same category as what I just wrote. Noone can decide for anyone else what is correct for them. The laws of Creation do not prevent homosexuality or it would not exist. That, of course, does not mean that it is or is not a pro-Creational act. So anyone that cares to listen, please do not just be a believer. Find the truth for yourself and then it will be the truth for you and not just another belief. Thanks for listening... | ||
Rarena Member Post Number: 353 Registered: 10-2005 |
To put in other words... It is as Billy not to defend his truth, he shouldn't have to... it stands on it's own. Non-temporal it needs no repetition once it is learned. Separation of the wheat from the chaff as it were... Balance in this sense is an action not a word... Thanks Shawn... wonderful... | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 387 Registered: 10-2007 |
* *** Hello to All, Thomas, A well written Opinion, I do hope more here do 'listen' to Your Words. As You have pointed out so succinctly, there are Ideas seeping in of a 'Religious' nature, which detract from the True Spirit of these Forums. I have made observation of this myself, to point out to Another in the Section of Your Reference. We shall cut these Weeds when they appear, which may seem 'harsh' to some Ones, but Billy would do no less. Salome *** * From One Eternal Spiritual Being to All Others, Awaken to Your true Essential Being J_rod7 | ||
Earthling Member Post Number: 85 Registered: 05-2008 |
Thomas: I second what you wrote in your post #512. And I third it. | ||
Pathfinder Member Post Number: 69 Registered: 10-2008 |
Hi Thomas, I agree that we must be careful not to accept words without consideration of their credibility, which is why we insist that those who make comments here without giving the source for the claims they make are called on their opinions. One cannot just say Billy said this, or Billy said that without being able to cite exactly where Billy said these things. However there is nothing wrong with using the prophets teachings as a guide and trusting in his words. of course we need to exercise our own logic, and that is exactly what Billy teaches. we take his words and those of the Pleajarens and then think on them and try to use what level of evolved ability we have to discern the truth in them. if there was never any level of truth in the vast amount of knowledge that they have already brought forth, there would be no FIGU in the first place. it is precisely because these teachings hold such credibility and resonate with those of us who have evolved high enough to understand the truth in them, that they have gained our respect and following in the first place. of course we will not worship them or take them for granted. but we certainly can use them as a guide and lesson to seek out the truths they reveal to us. there is a reason that there seems to be some rsemblance to religion when discussing these teachings. that reason has to do with the fact that the spirit who brings them to us is the same spirit that brought mcuh of mainstream religion to the world in the first place. why wouldn't it sound familiar? the only difference is that now the teachings is not cluttered with devisiveness and religious agendas. the words are corrected and truthful. But when we speak of being one with the spirit of creation, the familiar words of being one with God ring out and scare some people here. When they hear anything that sounds like the religious overtones they remember they become fearful. And yet they forget that what religion is teaching today is merely the twisted version of the truth that the prophet brings us now. What the prohet brought to the world 2 thousand years ago is the same teaching we now follow, but corrupted. So when we put that teaching into words for our understanding of its truthful version, why are they unsettled to hear a similarity in the teaching? I am not sure that everyone here really understand this. I have been speaking much of late with regard to the spirit and how vital the spirit is to our existence and our daily life, and how we are being taught to continually strive to perfect our spirit with every breath, quoting some of Semjases own words for support and clarity, and they go unheeded and deliberately ignored as though they are unworthy of the topic being discussed. one even went as far as to suggest that the body is as important as the spirit. The dynamic issues being discussed as of late are discussed without any corrolation to the spirit at all. from what I have seen on this board, from the majority of those using it regularly, is an agenda of personal opinion. there are some who observe and offer tidbits here and there, but I think they spend more time studying than making opinions known. i think I shall fall into that category from now on as I have not been impressed with the atmosphere of this forum. I think we should all get back to what is important, the spirit, whether that sounds religious or not. read what semjase has to teach about that again and see if you can glean some understanding and lesson from it, and search for the truth within. I am creation! See if you can find out what you are, and then prioritize where your opinions on homosexuality fall. "Therefore nothing may mislead him to un-truth and falseness, because his entire BEING is in the creational cognition of infinite truth." Contact 18:62 | ||
Creational Member Post Number: 17 Registered: 09-2008 |
Hello everyone, I moved to miscellaneous to be able to communicate with all who wrote me back. Scott, I hope this works well this way.Thanks. Mark, Pathfinder, Hector, Thomas, J-rod7, and Earthling, Thank you for taking the time to read my thoughts, and for both your kind and not so kind remarks. Mark, I am glad your feedback was the first one; it was very loving and warm. Pathfinder, I do see your point. As Billy had said; “All is one and one is all”. Analogy has its limitations! While one tries to conceptualize, it will never replace the real thing. It is merely an attempt to get the general point across, which leads to what hector wrote; Hector, In total appreciation, respect and agreement with your post, I think the above is what you meant by referring to parables and metaphors. And yes, by these analogies, we are simply TRYING to “unravel the mysteries of creation.” Which I might add, admittedly, Semjase states it may be impossible. ”77. but to understand the wise peace of the endless existence, the spirit, the immortal Creation, surpasses his human understanding. 78. The reason for this is that he is a prisoner of religious false teachings and human-material things that withhold from him an understanding for inner experience.” The above, then is a good start to respond to the other members’ not so considerate comments; Thomas, J-rod7, Earthling, I do appreciate your “anxieties” concerning the turning of this into another religiously followed dogma Billy seems to be avoiding, but when one goes backward avoiding a danger, one may fall from the un-seen, un-noticed cliff. A handful of You guys are creating a religion haters RELIGION here restricting others, specially new members freedom of expressing themselves. How is this attitude any different from other type of restrictive thought (system of belief). They all go hand in hand to the general category of dogma. Thomas, you missed out the entire point of the impression of my excitement with what the spiritual teachings are offering just because of one lousy word. You associate the term “guide me” with being a follower and you and the other who FOLLOWED you by seconding and third-ing your motion thought I am here to trash your forum and turn it into a sect. Tell me then, who is carrying dogma here? And who is limiting the expansion of these teachings by such attitudes. Member pathfinder is already stepping back due to this enormous guard. Tell me then, why Billy needed Symjase or others for GUIDANCE. Who is Billy to us? Who is Ptaah to the plajarens? If they need a spiritual leader to consult, do we even have to really debate on the need for teachers and guidance for us. A baby needs parental guidance or else, Tarzan may be the result. Guidance is different from interference. It certainly is not becoming a blind follower. And you might want to ask why Billy started FIGU. The advanced forum members are like older siblings in a family. The younger members may seek their guidance but won’t necessarily be following their exact path blindly. As a matter of fact, sometimes, the new comers may not be as cluttered or saturated hence clearer in comprehending basic concepts here without reading too much into it or be phobic over a mere term of expression. Also, remember, this is the 21st century, the age of computers. Billy is not Emmanuel anymore. There is no chance at all for this material to be altered or lost in a tomb to be found two millenniums later as it was done before. The truth and spiritual teaching has always been the same as all admit and this time is here to stay. So chillax and give new member room to express themselves, and by the way, if you feel any residual religious tone, just take a look in the mirror for we all have a little less than a millennium to get there. Last but not least, Dearj-rod7, let’s leave the weed cutting to the moderators and meanwhile, peace out my friend. Salome Zhila, The inevitable evolution facilitates our retreat back to our source, the mighty Creation. Let us then praise this absolute foundation called Creation and be a part of this universal evolution or be extinct as a species. After all, it is up to us. | ||
Pathfinder Member Post Number: 70 Registered: 10-2008 |
Zhila, your tarzan metaphor brought me to tears. good one! Also a reminder to all, this is also the doorway to the Age of Aquarius when the minds and spirits of humankind will be more open to the spiritual aspects of existence than ever before. So listebing to the 'babes', (oops there I go again), just might result in some extremely revealing knowledge. I think some have forgotten that we have no way of knowing the extent or degree of evolutionary wisdom or knowledge that any one individual may have. Even they may not be aware of it until it becomes triggered by their own search and application of logic. So although there may be members who have been studying this teaching for years, a 'babe' being freshly introduced, and yet having a far more highly evolved spirit, may suddenly come onto the scene and should not be overlooked so lightly. Instead we should waych for these people and whatever wisdom they may be able to open up to us. Billy is a prime example of a highly evolved spirit that would have easily been overlooked by many. I am not saying that there are other prophets or AA available, I am just saying that humans are in many various states of evolution and many are able to apply logic and see truth with much more efficiency than others. So lets not speak out on this forum as though we are the wise of the wise and the most knowledgeable because of our seniority. Instead let us be open minded and always listening for the evidence of truth from whatever source it comes from. Again, logic is the key ! naybe a better approach in this forum is to avoid posting our personal opinions as infallible unarguable suppositions, and instead post them as thoughts for discussion that we have a mind to change when we are shown a different way of looking at it when our logic is applied and new understanding is aroused. lets post for the purpose of actively learning instead of activley preaching. Peace! "Therefore nothing may mislead him to un-truth and falseness, because his entire BEING is in the creational cognition of infinite truth." Contact 18:62 | ||
Hector Member Post Number: 450 Registered: 04-2006 |
There is a big difference between giving advices and executing orders, or to force anybody to do something. It has been said that Figu people should never proselitize nor missionize, try to convince other people by insisting too much hammering one's ideas into others. I guess everyone here knows that and rejects such non valuable behaviours and manners. Now...what's the art of giving advices, the art of sowing philosophical and creational seeds? In my opinion, you have to make people think. To shake (or not) people's preconceived (or not) ideas so the have new, fresh insight, perspective, perception. Avoid mental and consciousness stagnation like the plague, giving inspiration (ideas, abstract concepts, art, thoughts) to others. To inspire and to "move" other people is fine. To inspire and to "move" other people into creational territory is even finer. It is legitimate to do that. Without coertion or pressure, creational philosophical seeds can only be thrown to those willing to hear and learn. People who are "receptive", this means people willing to make a faster spiritual progress. There are plenty of these kind of eager spiritual students out there. What kind of "spiritual fuel, spiritual gasoline" can be offered to a spirituality-seeking person? My own personal experiences do not reach in order to "teach" anybody about life and death, about the universe, about matter and energy, about reincarnation.....My own spiritual luggage is not sufficient in order to teach other people about these topics. So i have to be taught by other individuals who know better than me. That's why prophets like Billy are necessary. When you read his books he inspires you profoundly, and as a chain reaction, you want to inspire, give advice to others. You want to sow the creational seeds in your inner/outer world. This process has nothing in common with religion, because it is not based on fear, coertion, use of force or repression. There are no rituals in the Geisteslehre. The spiritual teachings are like a present, an offering, a gift, a tool for making progress....just use it or leave it. I guess some forum members fear to fall prey of beliefs, they fear to repeat Billy's teachings like a parrot or like a robot. But they forget Billy's teachings consist of two parts, not only one.....Theory AND Practice.......The books and writings only represent the theory part. The practical part is to apply those advices/benefits to your daily life. The latter is the more difficult part of the teachings and it cannot be missed or postponed. I hope this helps.... Btw Matthew Deagle, after reading "Sinnvolles, Würdevolles..." text excerpt i admit i was partially wrong on the topic "Homosexuality". Warm regards | ||
Creational Member Post Number: 18 Registered: 09-2008 |
Hello again everyone, Dear J rod7 and others involved with recent pertinent postings; Miraculously, and yet irronically, right after my post, your post, # 389, to Brenda, directed/(GUIDED!) my attention to the “Future of Mankind” link and I just felt that I should ask for everyone’s attention to this statement, by Quetel to Billy, in contact report 230 part 4 translation , the predictions of Elia reworded by Quetzel; “And the herald (Billy) will wait for the right day on the mountain of the horseshoe, where he will have his homestead, and where a flag will flutter in the wind as a sign of the bond with human beings from the sky. And when the propitious day has come, he will proclaim the old words, and his homestead will be a place where human beings will turn up from the four corners of the earth…….He (Billy) will imbue his words with his powerful energies, which flow through his words like streams of strength, and to preserve his words for all times to come he will record them unlike any herald before him. His words imbued with love will be comfort for the righteous, and his words will also reach the unjust and jolt and shake them, and they will penetrate them like powerful streams of energy, and cause them gradually to wake up.” So, as I mentioned in my previous post, Billy is many steps ahead of us with the way he is preserving his material. To reiterate, there is no need for the apparent common anxiety that you guys seem to share that somehow by a misnomer/misuse or misdirect of a word or concept of a new member, FIGU forum may derail or reduce its quality as you apprehensively yet “clerically” reflect in your post and I quote; “detract from the True Spirit of these Forums. I have made observation of this myself, to point out to Another in the Section of Your Reference. We shall cut these Weeds when they appear, which may seem 'harsh' to some Ones, but Billy would do no less.” Instead, my friend, this forum body may need to celebrate each time with the addition of every single member so it could, “silently reveal the truth to the four corners of earth or the universe”, not to discourage them. salome Zhila, The inevitable evolution facilitates our retreat back to our source, the mighty Creation. Let us then praise this absolute foundation called Creation and be a part of this universal evolution or be extinct as a species. After all, it is up to us. | ||
Creational Member Post Number: 19 Registered: 09-2008 |
Dear Scott, I just realized that this may not entirely pertain to this topic. I apologize and please feel free to post it where you deem necessary. Thanks. Zhila, The inevitable evolution facilitates our retreat back to our source, the mighty Creation. Let us then praise this absolute foundation called Creation and be a part of this universal evolution or be extinct as a species. After all, it is up to us. | ||
Gaiawingz Member Post Number: 20 Registered: 01-2008 |
Pathfinder; You stated: 'there is a reason that there seems to be some rsemblance to religion when discussing these teachings. that reason has to do with the fact that the spirit who brings them to us is the same spirit that brought mcuh of mainstream religion to the world in the first place.' Neither Jmmanuel nor Muhammad, nor any other incarnation of Billy's spirit, brought us the mainstream religions practiced throughout the world today. Ill-intentioned, stupid people (at best) brought us these things -- at worst, they were intentionally created by evil individuals who knew very well what they were doing. Also, you referenced me with this comment: 'one even went as far as to suggest that the body is as important as the spirit.' so I will respond one last time on the matter, as you forgot to quote the part where I qualified my statement with the fact that it is at the current level of evolution which we each inhabit where the body and spirit are equally integral to one another. If the physical body were not a necessity for the spirit to live, to learn and hopefully glean wisdom, etc. then it wouldn't bother incarnating. The fact that we are each physically incarnated is obvious indication that we necessitate a physical body at this point in our evolution in order to further our evolution. Thus, the two are equally important at this point in time. One last time: without the spirit the body is an empty corpse, and without the body the spirit cannot live. Peace, - Gaia | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 390 Registered: 10-2007 |
* *** Hello All, Creational Zhila, and Pathfinder, I find that You both have made some Excellent Points, for which there is no argument from this Quarter. Yes, We are ALL here to help one another. Correctly written is that none here is "holier-than-thou", even though some may seem to take this approach. That being said, Every One here has their own Perspective of Life. Every One here may have certain subjects which call up some greater Passions than others. Every One here also has the Right to express the Opinions, Perspectives, and Passions which are the 'driving Energy' which moves them along their Path of Spiritual Growth. That We all are on our own Path is a given. At times, our Paths may converge, or diverge, or cross, or go off into 'strange' territory. ALL PATHS are leading each One back to Re-Unification with Creation. We each should repeat to ourselves: "Who Am I to Judge." Salome *** * From One Eternal Spiritual Being to All Others, Awaken to Your true Essential Being J_rod7 | ||
Thomas Member Post Number: 514 Registered: 03-2004 |
Creational, you have wrongly assumed that I was refering specifically to you. Though it may or may not apply to you as well, the response was triggered by one of the newest members asking us here on the forum to "guide" them. I have not singled anyone out in regards to my post. You should not assume that anyone is talking to, or about you, unless they mention you by name. Just a suggestion though in order to reduce misunderstandings... | ||
Gaiawingz Member Post Number: 21 Registered: 01-2008 |
Pathfinder; One last note on this comment of yours: 'I am creation!' No you aren't. This is a delusional concept and concerns me, as it's precisely the kind of Satanic idea that is encouraged by groups such as modern Christianity when they seek to elevate a living man (Jmmanuel) to the status of Creation. You may not have put enough thought into the matter to realize that equating a single human being with the whole of Creation is precisely the embodiment of the Anti-Logos (Satan) -- but all the same, it is. Although you are a part of Creation, a reflection of Creation, and indeed your spirit-form is a very small part of Creation -- you are in fact a very tiny, insignificant thing in this vast Universe, not Creation. Peace, - Gaia | ||
Phenix Member Post Number: 141 Registered: 07-2008 |
Sehr geehrter Kamerad Moderator, This Day is particularly special: 'Kelch der Wahrheit' is here to further assist us in our Quest. Heed to Creation! The following is the Paper i made Mention of in my Post 136(Section 'Translations'; Nov. 10/2008), which is a short Study and a Compilation of some thoughts i had while going through 'Leben und Tod sind untrennbar miteinander verbunden' von Billy. I hope that this Section is the right Place for such a Post. Now then. Kameraden, I would like to submit to your Appreciation a little Paper based on a short(ten Pages) Work des Herrn Meier, called 'Leben und Tod sind untrennbar miteinander verbunden'( which i would literally and unofficially translate as 'Life and Death are inseparably connected together'(they are inherent to each other)). For those who are not yet familiar with that Work - or are for the Time being unable to read the Original in german - i took the Liberty to translate it into english. The Translation is to be found in the Section 'Translations'. I would like to dedicate this modest Attempt to our inspiring Member, Kamerad Creational-Zhila Taymouri; after reading her Post 16(Section 'The Creation Itself'; Nov. 12/2008: http://forum.figu.org/cgi-bin/us/show.cgi?13/1157) this seemed logical and it is indeed an Honor for me. I would tremendously appreciate if Herr J_rod7 and all others Kameraden - having English as their first Language or who just better master this Language - correct my Lack of Feeling for Syntax and other Mistakes i made. It also goes without saying that any Proofreading, Correction in Form and Content, Suggestion,(constructive!)Criticism of both the abovementioned Translation and this Paper, would be equally highly appreciated. The paper would be posted in three Parts. This is Part one. A comparative Study of 'Leben und Tod sind untrennbar miteinander verbunden'' von Billy. It would be fair to state that the two extreme Views or Philosophies of Life of Human Beings are, either they think they occupy a special Place in the great Chain of Beings, or they consider themselves to be not more than Worms whose Existence can find an End at any given Time; some miserable Creatures, born naked and defenseless, who go through Life without knowing WHAT they are and where they are heading to. In the first Case, we are keen on assuming that our World is the very Center of the Universe and we ourselves are Rulers of this World and beyond. And he who rules absolutely, should also be forever absolutely - specially at the physical Level, for the Body is the first Instance of our common immediate Experience. In both Cases, our different Religions did not do much to change or moderate these Views. Death is in this Context an incomprehensible Anachronism and/or the Mother of all Evil, the ultimate Proof of the Misery of Man. The Phenomenon of Death and its Mystery is indeed a Topic Humanity, through its Manifestations in Cultures and Civilizations, Institutions, Customs and Systems of Beliefs, has been treating from different Viewpoints with as Consequence various - sometimes even essentially contradictory and mutual exclusive - Attitudes, Conceptions and Teachings. But what does Death mean? Is there anything after Death? How do we, Humans, understand and explain one and the other? We shall try to examine the Relations to Death within some past and present - as representatively as possible - Cultures in the Light of "Leben und Tod sind untrennbar miteinander verbunden" von Billy. An Effort would be made to briefly render the mean Features of those Relations in the general Context of the Place and Role of the human Being and Life itself in and beyond this world, as expressed in those Cultures. The scientific Approaches of this Matter will be covered and where possible, illustrated with relevant Works, Theories and Quotations. At this Point the Question of Incarnation would be extensively examined. The Structure of 'Leben und Tod sind untrennbar miteinander verbunden' will be followed. The adopted Methodology will be descriptive and phenomenological with the french existentialist School of Thoughts as theoretical Framework. The Style will be narrative and in the first Person of Plural and/of Singular. In his Work, 'Leben und Tod sind untrennbar miteinander verbunden', Herr Meier wrote: "Der Tod gehört ebenso zum Leben wie das Leben zum Tod. Beide können ohne einander nicht existieren, weil sie voneinander dermassen abhängig sind wie auch Wachsein und der Schlaf. Und wie der Schlaf eintrit, ohne dass der Mensch ihm entweichen kann, so tritt auch der Tod am Ende der Tage ein, ob der Mensch das nun will oder nicht." Death and Life are in a dialectical, complementary Relationship, whereby one could not be without the other and that, to the Extent that this Relation could be compared to the Interdependence of Sleep and Awareness. Death is not subordinated to the Will of any given Human Being; Death is sovereign. From what we are taught by History, Anthropology and Literature one could conclude that the primitive Humans, in general, viewed Death as the ultimate Mystery. It was something unknown and threatening they had to get the better of in a daily Basis. Death takes away all they had, that is the few Things they could be sure of: Life and being alive. The Notion of Death as total Absence, Annihilation, absolute Nothingness; as something evil and mysterious, is largely shared by Humanity throughout the successive Phases of its Evolution. Death caused both Awe and Fascination. In the Process Death acquired also other Dimensions. The ancient Egyptians, for Instance, believed in Life after Death. "In the Ancient Egyptian Civilisation, Death had a much deeper Meaning that the Disappearance of a living Being on Earth. Most of us think that the Egyptians were really preoccupied by Death, but we were wrong to use the word 'Death'[...] Death was only a Passage in everyone's Life, an open Door leading us to a new Life.", wrote Mr Laurent Willen. At first Sight, one could say that the Ancient Egyptians did hear the Call of Herr Meier, when he first noticed one, then formulated the other in: " Doch während des Lebens macht er sich kaum oder überhaupt keine Gedanken darum, geschweige denn, dass Gefühle entstehen könnten, die sich mit dem Tod befassen. Gedanken daran werden gar aus dem Bewusstsein verbannt, obwohl es besser wäre, eingehend darüber nachzudenken, um den wirklichen Sinn des Todes zu verstehen, denn dadurch würde auch der Sinn des Lebens klar." We shall come back to the Particularities of the Egyptian old Practice, when dealing with the Views of World's Religions. At this Point, what could be safely assumed is that the Ancient Egyptians were on the right Path with Regard to the Understanding of the necessary, profound Dialectics of Life and Death, for Herr Meier reminded us further indeed that: "Der Mensch muss sich mit dem Tod vertraut machen, der mehr bedeutet als nur das Sterben des materiellen Körpers. Und tatsächlich, wird gründlich über Leben und Tod sowie über das Sterben und den Sinn des Lebens - der bewusste Evolution bedeutet - nachgedacht, dann ist die Gewissheit des Todes nicht schwierig einzusehen." What did the Ancient Greeks think of Life and Death? In his Dialogue, 'Phaedo', Plato described the last Hours of Socrates, whereby the Attitude of the Philosopher towards Death deserves a particular Attention: "Now as you see there has come upon me that which may be thought, and is generally believed to be, the last and worst evil. But the oracle made no sign of opposition [...] I regard this[Note: his Death Sentence] as a proof that what has happened to me is a good, and that those of use who think that death is an evil are in error[...]Let us reflect in another way, and we shall see that there is great reason to hope that death is a good, for one of two things:[...]either death is a state of nothingness and utter unconsciousness, or, as men say, there is a change and migration of the soul from this world to another. Now if you suppose that there is no consciousness, but a sleep like the sleep of him who is undisturbed even by the sight of dreams, death will be an unspeakable gain.[...]Now if death is like this, I say that to die is gain; for eternity is then only a single night. But if death is a journey to another place, and there, as men say, all the dead are, what good, O my friends and judges, can be greater than this? . . . What would not a man give if he might converse with Orpheus and Musaeus and Hesiod and Homer? Nay, if this be true, let me die again and again..[...] I cannot make Crito believe that I am the same Socrates who has been talking and conducting the argument; he fancies that I am the other Socrates whom he will soon see, a dead body--and he asks, How shall he bury me? And though I have spoken many words in the endeavor to show that when I have drunk the poison I shall leave you and go to the joys of the blessed[...]" The Contrast with the old Beliefs is striking! Death here, while remaining still the Great Unknown, is no more something evil and terrifying. This Attitude, it must be said, is an Exception; it is as exceptional as Socrates himself in the Context of his Time. The general Relation to Death and the Possibility of a Hereafter in the Ancient Greek World should be rather characterized as one of Heroism, Resignation in the Face of the impenetrable Will of the Gods, Misfortune, Fear - also the Idea of Death as Punishment, a Punishment which would continue in The Great Beyond(the Realm of Hades), where it is likely to intensify and last for quite a while, considering the Life Style of many at that Time... - and one of Denial. The Philosophy of Epicurus(c. 341-c. 270 BC) is an eloquent Illustration of the Attitude of Denial. In his famous letter to Menoeceus, he wrote: "Why should I fear death? If I am, death is not. If death is, I am not. Why should I fear that which cannot exist when I do?" Very subtile indeed; but not quite accurate, i am afraid. At 'Wikipedia', we further read: "Epicureanism rejects immortality and mysticism; it believes in the soul, but suggests that the soul is as mortal as the body. Epicurus rejected any possibility of an afterlife, while still contending that one need not fear death: "Death is nothing to us; for that which is dissolved, is without sensation, and that which lacks sensation is nothing to us." The critical Answer of Bertrand Russell of the Epicureanism's Conception of death was quick to follow: "[...]The fear of death is so deeply rooted in instinct that the gospel of Epicurus could not, at any time, make a wide popular appeal; it remained always the creed of a cultivated minority. Even among philosophers, after the time of Augustus, it was, as a rule, rejected in favour of Stoicism. It survived, it is true, though with diminishing vigour, for six hundred years after the death of Epicurus; but as men became increasingly oppressed by the miseries of our terrestrial existence, they demanded continually stronger medicine from philosophy or religion. The philosophers took refuge, with few exceptions, in Neoplatonism; the uneducated turned to various Eastern superstitions, and then, in continually increasing numbers, to Christianity, which, in its early form, placed all good in life beyond the grave, thus offering men a gospel which was the exact opposite of that of Epicurus." Epicurus was not conscious of this: "In jedem Fall schreitet er von der Geburt an über das Leben unaufhörlich dem Sterben und dem Tod entgegen, wobei nichts ihn davon abzuwenden vermag." and of the following: "Daher soll der Tod niemals verdrängt, sondern als Gevatter für ein Weiterleben im Jenseitsbereich erkannt werden, der der Geistform den Weg für eine Wiedergeburt ebnet." Obviously! The closing Statement of Mr Bertrand Russell allows us to smoothly move over to the Doctrines of traditional Religions. But before doing that, we must point out that Herr Meier has already underlined the Shortcomings and the Lack of deeper Understanding leading to fundamental Errors in the Earthly philosophical Systems, namely in the Explanation of the important Concept of 'Streben' in the Work 'Dekalog': "Also ist der Tod in einem jeglichen Streben einer jeglichen Kreatur, Existenz, Lebensform oder Kreation miteingeschlossen und ein naturschöpfungsgesetzmässiger Bestandteil derselben. Der Tod bedeutet jedoch nicht und niemals das Ende des allzeitlich unauslöschlissen Streben, wie von vielen Menschen und gar von grossen Philosophen angenommen wird oder angenommen wurde. Eine solche Annahme ist ein Trugschluss und also ist es ein Missverstehen eines grundlegenden und Lebenswichtigen Natur- und Schöpfungsgesetzes. Streben endet nicht mit dem Tod, denn der Tod bedeutet nur, dass sich die Form des Streben wandelt."( Dekalog; Page 88). [Literal, unauthorized and unofficial Translation: 'Death is Hence encrusted(within, from Inside)/enclosed(within, from Inside)/encluded(within, from Inside)/inclusive(in the inner Nature of) in each(given) Striving/Aspiration/Hunting for/Aiming at(Perfection, for Instance)/Ambition/Endeavor/Effort/Pursuit of each (any given) Creature, Existence, Life Form oder Creation, and (is) a nature-creational law-scaled Element/Ingredient/Component/Constituent/Part of the Same(this very Same) - a natural, shaped according to the Laws of Creation, Component of the Same(Totality). Death does however not mean and never means the End of the eternally(in an everlasting Way) unquenchable/inextinguishable Striving, as (the Way...; contrary to what, how...) lots of Humans(People) and even great Philosophers assume/suppose or assumed/supposed (it to be). Striving/Aspiration does not end with Death, for Death means only that the Form of the Striving/Aspiration changes(itself).'] Herr Meier is equally unimpressed by the complicated Constructions of our mean Philosophers in the related Matter of Being and Existence and he made it clear in the Chapter 'Sein oder SEIN - was ist darunter zu verstehen?': "Die Wahrheit der Lehre der Ontologie, der Lehre des Seins, selbst beweist dies, auch wenn hierzu zu anderen, namälich zur geistigen Form des SEINs gegriffen muss. Die unterschiedlichen Auffassungen des Begriffs Sein sind äusserst entscheidend für alle philosophischen Hauptsysteme und für die wirkliche Wahrheit an und für sich, wobei jedoch der Idealismus und der Materialismus die beiden für den Erdenmenschen hauptsächlichen Zweige seines philosophischen Nachdenkens sind. Dessen ungeachtet aber kennt er nicht den eigentlichen Wert des tatsächlichen SEINs, von dem er den Begriff Sein für die materielle Existenz entlehnt hat, ohne sich an den Urwert noch massgebend zu erinnern zu vermögen." (Dekalog; Page 84). [Idem: ' The Truth is the Teaching of Ontology, the Teaching of the Being, itself proves/demonstrates/establishes/substantiates this, also if - among other Things - the spiritual Form of BEING must be understood/included into this(into The Teaching of Ontology). The different Ideas/Conceptions/Views/Notions of the Category/Concept Being are extremely/highly decisive/critical(in their Importance)/crucial for all leading/main/principal philosophic Systems and for the true/real/actual Truth en soi et pour soi, whereby however Idealism and Materialism are both for the Earth Human the mean Twigs/Sprigs/Offshots/Branches of her/his philosophical Reflection/Meditation/Cogitation. In Spite of this/notwithstanding/Despite she/he(the Earth Human) does know/understand/grab the proper/real/ Sense/Meaning/Signification of the real/actual/true BEING, from which(BEING) she/he(the Earth Human) has borrowed/derived/adopted the Concept Being for the material Existence, without she/he(the Earth Human) being able, in a still decisive Way, to remember(her/himself of) the original(archetypical; primeval) Sense/Meaning.'] Plain and simple. Now then. Let's briefly examine what the mean, so-called revealed, Religions and other philosophical Religions teach about Death. We will begin with Judaism, Christianity and Islam. The Idea of the Original Sin is decisive here. At 'Find your Fate', an online Encyclopedia treating of Religions, we read: " Judaism has stressed the natural fact of death and its role in giving life meaning. The fear of death, concern about the fate of our own soul and those of our loved ones, ethical concerns that some people die unfairly, all these and many other issues are discussed in Jewish literature. Since God is seen as ultimately just, the seeming injustice on Earth has propelled many traditional Jewish thinkers into seeing the afterlife as a way to reflect the ultimate justice of human existence. Traditional thinkers considered how individuals would be rewarded or punished after their deaths. There are a few rare descriptions of life after death. Traditionalists gave the name Gehenna to the place where souls were punished. Many Jewish thinkers noted that since, essentially, God is filled with mercy and love, punishment is not to be considered to be eternal. There are, similarly, many varying conceptions of paradise, such as that paradise is the place where we finally understand the true concept of God. It is also possible that there is no separate Heaven and Hell, only lesser or greater distance from God after death. Judaism does not believe people who are Gentiles will automatically go to Hell or that Jews will automatically go to Heaven on their basis of their belonging to the faith. Rather, individual ethical behavior is what is most important." Christianity has it this Way: "For Christians whose lives are guided by the Bible, the Reality of death is acknowledged as part of the current human condition, affected by sin(Genesis 2:17; Romans 5; Hebrews 9:27). There is 'a time to be born, and a time to die'(Ecclesiastes 3:2). Although eternal life is a gift that is granted to all who accept salvation through Jesus Christ, faithful Christians await the second coming of Jesus for complete realization of their immortality(John 3:36; Romans 6:23; 1 Corinthians 15:51-54). While waiting for Jesus to come again, Christians may be called upon to care for the dying and to face personally their own death." The main Features of Islam are fairly the same: "When death approaches, the close family and friends try to support and comfort the dying person through supplication as well as remembrance of Allah and His will. The attendance is to help the dying person iterate his commitment to unity to God.[...] They[close Relatives and close Friends] frequently pray and supplicate for him. Charity, fasting, prayers and pilgrimage is often performed on behalf on the dead. Visiting the graves is recommended for the living to remember death and the day of judgment." In 'Death: a Beautiful Gift for a Believer'(Death: an Islamic Perspective, Death in Islam, Death in Holy Qur'an), we read: " 'To Allah (Almighty God) we belong, and to Him is our return.' (Holy Qur'an 2:156) Multitudes of men have walked on the surface of this Earth. They all belonged to different nations and cultures. A few of them made history for which they were remembered, whereas others were never to be mentioned again. Although each one was personally different from another - their habits, thinking and tastes differed - they all had two things in common, first, they were all delivered from their mothers womb (birth) and second, they all tasted death. Who claims he has lived a thousand years? "The Sun travels to an appointed place. This is the decree of the Mighty, the All-Knowing." (Holy Qur'an 36:38) Almighty God blesses us with all His gifts. The Sun gives us light during the day to help us see and it helps our crops grow so that we can eat. But the Sun also teaches us other things. Almighty God causes the day to die with its setting and allows the night to take over, which is a time for rest. In this way, He may be showing us that all of us will eventually have to die just like the day. And when the Sun rises in the morning again after our period of rest, it is as if Almighty God is telling us that we too will be raised to life after we have died. These are all signs of Almighty God to teach us to take care of our life. One thing that we must remember is that death is inevitable, and everything except the Almighty God of course, will perish. Signs of death can be seen all around us. At funerals we see people who were once walking among us being buried in their graves. In the fall we see the leaves turn from green to yellow and fall one at a time, and in the winter we see trees, lifeless. In this way, all things in this world will wither away and die. According to an old fable, a man made an unusual agreement with Hazrat Izraeel (pbuh) - the angel of death. He told Izraeel (pbuh) that he would be willing to accompany him (as though he had a choice) only if Izraeel (pbuh) would send him a notice well in advance. The agreement was made. Weeks became months and the months into years. One bitterly cold night, as the man sat alone thinking of his success in life, Izraeel (pbuh) tapped on his shoulder. "You are here too soon" the man cried out. "You sent no messenger. I thought we had an agreement!" Izraeel (pbuh) whispered "Notice your hair, once it was full and black, now it has streaks of silver in it! Observe your face in the mirror and see the wrinkles. Yes! I have sent many messages through the years! I have kept my part. I am sorry that you are not ready for me but the order of Almighty God cannot be averted!" Hence, hair color turning gray from black or wrinkles on the face are also the signs of nearing death, and the Almighty God is the only one who can bring the dead back to life. Surely all men die, and just surely Almighty God give them life with His ability, and judges them on their deeds and actions. We know Almighty God is the Creator and can recreate us, because if one can do something he has the ability to do it again. For instance, if your teacher asks you to draw a picture on the blackboard and color it. Then if after you have drawn it with beautiful colors, the teacher asks you to rub it out and do it again, could you repeat the same drawing again? Of course you would be able to repeat the picture. It is what you created and are capable of doing again. From this example, we can understand Almighty God is able to give life to the dead because it is He Who created us in the beginning. Almighty God can surely give life to the dead. He judges them on their deeds. On Resurrection Day He will re-create the dead for judgment, and then allow the doer of good to enter paradise but cast the evil-doer into hell. Hatred towards death and love of the world is the outcome of an ignorant person's mind, who thinks that the happiness of this world is his prosperity and good fortune. The world beset with numerous troubles and anxieties is about to end in misery and does not enjoy eternity, perpetuity and sincerity. A poet has referred to this in the following words - "Do not give your heart to this world, for its example is of an unfaithful bride who has never loved you, even for a night." Imam Ali (pbuh) says: "If man will see how speedily his death is coming toward him he will abhor ambitions and will give up admiring the world." It is of utmost importance that man should hold death dear and consider it an opportunity of meeting with his Almighty, and not hate it and consider it as evil, but should take lessons from it. He should ask forgiveness from Almighty for his sins and tame the rebellious self (Nafs). When the call of his Lord comes, he should welcome it with open arms accepting it to be a blessing from Almighty. He should be contented with the decree (Qadr) of Almighty. He should also rejoice that shortly he would be taken to the presence of Ahlul Bait [Household of Prophet] (pbut) and meet his deceased companions and other believer brothers. He should also not be disheartened by the delay in death but should consider it as an opportunity afforded by Almighty to him to repent. This delay would give him a chance to gather provisions useful for his journey to the other world, for the journey is tiresome and full of dangerous valleys and difficult paths. In fact a believer always remembers death, since his or her main goal is to reach the Almighty God. Hazrat Qasim (pbuh), the son of Imam Hasan Al-Mujtaba (pbuh), when asked concerning death at Karbala, answered: "death to me is sweeter than honey." Therefore true believers, those who are sincerely devoted to the Almighty God, anticipate death since to them it signifies the long-awaited meeting with their creator. During imprisonment, Imam Ali An-Naqi, Al-Hadi (pbuh) had a grave dug up ready by the side of his prayer mat. Some visitors expressed concern or surprise. The Imam explained, "In order to remember my end I keep the grave before my eyes." Before a believer approaches the final moment of his/her life and death overtakes him, it is necessary that he wakes up from the state of negligence and prepares for the final everlasting place. This way he will be able to avoid bewilderment and the fear of the so-called untimely death. At the time of leaving this world, as attested to by the Holy Qur'an, a person will be in one of two states - either he will be of the Companions of the Right, or the Companions of the Left (Refer Holy Qur'an 56:7-56). If he is counted amongst the Companions of the Right, he will be in a good, final state, but if he is one of the Companions of the Left, he will be of those who have suffered a great loss." As we can see, quite a lot takes Place before and after Death! The 'Vergänglichkeit' of the human material Body is admitted, as demanded by Reason itself: "So liegt es auch in der Natur des menschlicher körpers, dass er vergänglich, verletzlich und unbeständig ist, und zwar ganz gleich wie dieser Körper auch geartet ist, ob dick ob dünn, ob schön oder hässlich." Death and its 'democratic Nature' are acknowledged; careful Preparations, Assistance and even the 'Dying-Escort' are duly observed, as pointed out by Herr Meier here: "Auch Reichtum oder Armut spielen für den Tod keine Rolle, auch nicht körperliche Kraft oder Schwäche, nicht Schmeichelei und Heuchelei, keine Bestechung, kein Beten und kein Fluchen oder irgendwelche andere Dinge, die sich der Mensch ausdenken könnte, um dem Tod entrinnen zu können. Der Tod nämlich macht keine Unterschiede, und er holt alle, die einmal geboren sind." And here: "Wenn der Mensch stirbt, dann muss er alleine sterben, auch wenn er von seinen Lieben, Freunden und Bekannten auf dem Weg des Sterbens begleitet wird. Dies ist jedoch keine Todesbegleitung, sondern nur eine Sterbebegleitung, die das Alleinsein im Tod und im Sterben nicht aufhebt. Sterbebegleitung ist schön und gut, doch ändert sie nichts am Alleinsein beim Sterben, denn dieser Weg muss von jedem Menschen ganz allein gegangen werden und niemand kann ihn beim wirklichen Sterben direkt und in das Totenreich begleiten. So ist die Sterbebegleitung nur eine äusserliche, materielle Angelegenheid, die eine materielle Verbundenheit usw. zum Ausdruck bringen kann, durch die der Sterbende z.B. Liebe zu empfangen und Frieden zu erfühlen vermag." Judaism, Christianity and Islam, it seems, pay enough Attention to Death during Life. It looks pretty much that they perfectly understood that Death is inevitable and People are taught to prepare themselves for the Grand Encounter. Isn't what Herr Meier teaches? Let's see: " Darum soll der Mensch stets darauf bedacht sein, sich gedanklich und gefühlsmässig mit der Tatsache des unvermeidlichen Todes auseinanderzusetzen, und zwar sowhol in Hinsicht auf die eigene Person wie auch hinsichtlich der nächsten Angehörigen und der Mitmenschen überhaupt." So far, so good; further then: " Der Mensch muss sich mit dem Tod vertraut machen, der mehr bedeutet als nur das Sterben des materiellen Körpers. Und tatsächlich, wird gründlich über Leben und Tod sowie über das Sterben und den Sinn des Lebens - der bewusste Evolution bedeutet - nachgedacht, dann ist die Gewissheit des Todes nicht schwierig einzusehen." "Durch dieses vernünftige Denken und durch die daraus entstehenden kontrollierten Gefühle entsteht die Gewissheit, dass der Tod sowohl zum leben gehört wie auch zur unaufhaltsamen Evolution, wie auch das Leben zur Evolution und zum unumgänglichen Tod gehört." Already at this Point the essential Difference between Judaism, the christian and islamic Perspectives and the Teachings of Herr Meier is obvious. In the Spiritual Teachings des Herrn Meier, One must not only accept the Necessity of Death, One has also to CONSCIOUSLY and RATIONALLY understand that Necessity. Furthermore, Death, the Necessity of Death and Life are put in a direct Relation, as inseparable, inner Laws of Evolution. Neither Judaism, nor Christianity or Islam did, by no Means, get closer to this Understanding and Logic. Besides, there still exist the Idea of Punishment and some Elements of Fear of Death in all three Religions. One did not yet completely and consciously get over this Stage: "Denkt der Mensch über den Tod nach, dann befällt ihn erstlich in gewisser Weise ein Unbehagen und lässt ihn unruhig werden, weil er zu Beginn seiner Gedanken und Gefühle im Tod etwas Bedrohliches zu erkennen und zu verspüren glaubt. Doch diese reale Reaktion ist auch hilfreich, denn die lässt erkennen, dass der Tod tatsächlich unausweichlich überall und ständig gegenwärtig ist."; which shouldn't be the Case: "Also muss der Mensch der Tatsache des Todes ins Gesicht blicken und dessen Sinn und Zweck erkennen und sich bewusst werden, dass nur durch den Tod ein Fortschritt in ein weiteres Leben erfolgen kann." And again: "Wenn sich der Mensch während seines Lebens wahrheitlich schult, um eine Bewusstheit in b(B?)ezug des Todes und des Sterbens zu entwickeln, dann wird er fähig sein, mit seinem Sterben und mit seinem Tod in der würdigen Weise umzugehen, wie beide es verdienen." It is clear that Judaism, Christianity and Islam have still a long Way to go. Besides, a certain Mysticism with Regard to the Hereafter is inherent to those Religions, which Mysticism one could already observe in the Ancient Egyptian System. The Events in the Hereafter are in all three Systems described as and reduced to a Trial of the Dead by some almighty God and/or Gods. The Purgatory, Hell and Paradise should be added here to the Original Sin. Regarding Hinduism, we read: "Hinduism believes in the rebirth and reincarnation of souls. Death is therefore not a great calamity, not an end of all, but a natural process in the existence of soul as a separate entity, by which it reassembles its resources, adjusts its course and returns again to the earth to continue its journey. In Hinduism death is a temporary cessation of physical activity, a necessary means of recycling the resources and energy and an opportunity for the soul to review its programs and policies. When a person dies, his soul along with some residual consciousness leaves the body through an opening in the head and goes to another world and returns again after spending some time there. What happens after the soul leaves the body and before it reincarnates again is a great mystery . The Bhagavad gita describes two paths along which souls travel after death. One is the path of the sun, also known as the bright path and the other is the path of the moon, also known as the the dark path. When a soul travels along the path of the sun, it never return again, while those which travel along the path of the moon return again. What happens to a soul after the death of a mortal being on earth depends upon many factors, some of which are, his previous deeds, his state of mind at the time of death,the time his death, the activities of his children, that is whether they performed the funeral rites in the prescribed manner and satisfied the scriptural injunctions. Hinduism believes in the existence of not one hell and one heaven but in the existence of many sun filled worlds and many dark and demonic worlds. Vaikunth is the world of Vishnu, Kailash is the world of Siva and Brahmalok is the world of Brahman. Indralok is the standard heaven to which those who please the gods through their activities upon the earth go. The standard hell is Yamalok, which is also ruled by a god called Lord Yama, who is also the ruler of the southern quarter.In the ultimate sense, the purpose of these worlds is neither to punish or reward the souls, but to remind them of the true purpose of their existence. After death, Hindus are not buried, but cremated. The idea is that the human personality is made up of five elements of which four belong to the body and come from this world, namely fire, earth, water and air while the fifth the ether (fine matter) belongs to the domain of the subtle body and comes from the higher worlds. By cremating the body, the elements are rightfully returned to their respective spheres, while the subtle body along with soul returns to the worlds beyond for the continuation of its afterlife.[...]" Buddhism: "From its inception, Buddhism has stressed the importance of death, since awareness of death is what prompted the Buddha to perceive the ultimate futility of worldly concerns and pleasures. Realizing that death is inevitable for a person who is caught up in worldly pleasures and attitudes, he resolved to renounce the world and devote himself to finding a solution to this most basic of existential dilemmas. A Buddhist looks at death as a breaking apart of the material of which we are composed. However Buddhism does not look at death as a continuation of the soul but as an awakening. Dying and being reborn has been compared by some Buddhist as a candle flame. When the flame of one lit candle is touched to the wick of an unlighted candle, the light passes from one candle to another. The actual flame of the first candle does not pass over but is responsible for lighting the second candle. When preparing for death Buddhist generally agree a person’s state of mind while dying is of great importance. While dying the person can be surrounded by friends, family and monks who recite Buddhists scriptures and mantras to help the person achieve a peaceful state of mind. Buddhism asserts that all being live beyond the various fluctuations of this life. Death is merely a passage to rebirth in another realm such as the human world, a pure land or the flowering of the ultimate nature of the mind." Zoroastrianism: "The Parsees (Zoroastrians ) do not cremate, bury or submerge their dead in water because they consider the dead to be impure, and their Zoroastrian faith does not permit them to defile any of the elements with them. This desert ritual, which originated along with their faith in Persia more than 3,000 years ago and regards death not as the work of God but of the devil, dictates that that the dead be left to vultures on hilltops. It is common for Parsees to travel long distances to bring their dead to the Mumbai towers (India) because prayers for the dead can only be said for those who have passed through its gates. Dead Parsees are carried on a bier to a ceremonial gate near the five Towers of Silence, where relatives hand them to pallbearers, the only people allowed inside. The black stone towers, about 36 metres high, are like three-tiered, open-air arenas where the men are placed in the outer circle, women in the middle and children in the innermost for the vultures to feed on. But with an average of three Parsees dying every day, the handful of vultures at the towers are overfed. Experts say about 100-120 birds would be needed to deal with the daily intake of bodies. The Zoroastrians, or Parsees, have installed solar reflectors in their Towers of Silence in Mumbai to help dispose of their dead after a decline in the number of vultures that scavenge their corpses in keeping with tradition." Hinduism and Buddhism are still covered with Mysticism, but to their Credit they Recognize and reintroduced - be it in yet a rather misty Form - the fundamental Idea of Incarnation, for: "Daher soll der Tod niemals verdrängt, sondern als Gevatter für ein Weiterleben im Jenseitsbereich erkannt werden, der der Geistform den Weg für eine Wiedergeburt ebnet." The buddhistic Approach of the Concept of Reincarnation seems, in the general lines, to be more logical and faithful to the Spiritual Teachings. This, however, does not tally and could lead to serious Mistakes, to which Herr Meier urges us to pay Attention: "Sein bedeutet in lexikalem und üblichem Verständnissinn das Vorhandene, das Wirkliche, das, wodurch das real Existierende Existenz hat, das Dauernde, das unbedingt Beharrende, das Beständige, das Bleibende usw. Sein bedeutet für den Menschen einen allgemeinen Begriff für die menschliche Existenz, für das menschliche Denken, Handeln and Fühlen, und für das Leben an und für sich. Mit dem Sein seines Daseins beweist sich der Mensch selbst seine eigene Existenz, wobei die Beweisführung des eigenen Seins in oft sehr skurrilen Formen ausartet, die gar dazu führen, dass behauptet wird, die Existenz des Lebens könne ebensowenig bewiesen werden wie auch nicht die Existenz des materiellen Körpers usw. Angehörige dieser Scheinphilosophie sind der Ansicht, dass allein die geistige Existenz Wirklichkeit wäre, wie dies der Buddhismus irrtümlich und wirklichkeitsverfälschend lehrt, wenn er behaupt, dass das wirkliche Leben einzig und allein im Nirwana gegeben sei. Dadurch trägt der Buddhismus viel zur Verwirrung des Tatsachen und zur Verfälschung der wahrheitlichen Lehre des Geistes bei. In Wahrheit ist das Leben in materieller Form ebenso eine nachweisbare, notwendige und beweisbare Existenz wie auch das Leben im Geistigen oder das Leben der Geistform."(Dekalog; Page 83). [ Literally translated as: 'Being means in lexical and usual Sense of Understanding(in common Sense/Notion/Conception/Idea/Interpretation the Existing, the Real, that wherethrough(whereby) the real/actual/true Existing has Existence; the Lasting(one), the absolutely/resolutely/firmly/unconditionally Persisting, the Steady, the Remaining/Permanent/Fast/Enduring etc... Being means for the Human a general Concept/Term for the human Existence, for the human Thinking, Acting/Actions/Deeds/Activities and Feeling, and for(The) Life in and for itself[French: 'an und für sich' = 'en soi et pour soi']. With the Being of her/his Existence/Life, the Human her/himself proves/demonstrates/establishes/substantiates to her/himself her/his own Existence, whereby the Proof/Argumentation(the Way of Testifying...) of the own Being degenerates in often very ridiculous Forms, which even lead to the Point that, it is claimed/asserted/maintained(One claims) that the Existence of Life could(bold Assumption) just as well be proven/demonstrated/established/substantiated as also the Non-Existence of the material Body etc... The Partisans/Supporters(those who share, belong to this Conception) of this illusory Philosophy are of the Opinion(hold the View) that only the spiritual would be(Assumption) the Reality, as(the Way) Buddhism - erroneously and Reality-falsifying - teaches this(Opinion/View), when(if) it(Buddhism) claims/asserts/maintains that, the true/real/actual Life would be(Assumption) given simply and solely in the Nirvana. (The) Buddhism therethrough(thus; in doing so) contributes a lot/greatly/largely/much to the Confusion of the Facts and to the Falsification of the True Spiritual Teaching(teaching of the Spirit). In truth(the) Life in material Form is just as a demonstrable/visible, necessary and provable Existence as also (the) Life of the Spiritual or (the) Life of the Spiritform'] Let's go through some Conceptions within some of the Cultures known as Natives. In 'Death and the Tree of Life', Mr Blair A. Moffett wrote: "What is the native American's view of death? Tribal traditions about the matter vary in expression but are not at variance one with another on fundamentals. The Tillamook of Oregon, for example, have an interesting account about one of their number who died. Because the people wanted him back, the tribe performed a sacred dance for five days, after which the "dead" one awakened, asked for food, and then told them what the after-death experience is. He said the soul of man after physical death travels "a long way." A point is reached where those who have not lived rightly on earth take the "wrong trail," while those whose lives were upright go forward along the true path of souls to paradise. Statements from his tradition by a contemporary Chippewa medicine man, Sun Bear, extend the native perspective of death. Since life is movement, but movement that is cyclical and not linear, physical death is nothing more than a "change of both worlds and forms," because it is "a circle, from birth to death to rebirth." So native peoples' acceptance of the fact of human rebirth or reincarnation on earth is pervasive and shapes their conception of death. As early as 1868 the well-known student of native American religions, Daniel Brinton, asserted it "was in fact one of their most deeply-rooted and wide-spread convictions . . . indissolubly connected with their highest theories of a future life, their burial ceremonies, and their modes of expression." The teaching of reincarnation is one of the major distinguishing features of North American native religious life. Not only that, it is a belief that forms an important element in the world view of Andean peoples of South America, as it did among the Incas of that region during the Spanish conquest. Another idea shaping American Indian treatment of death, one that is perhaps less well known and certainly little understood by Western students, is that Death was born or appeared at a certain point or on a specific date in mankind's early evolutionary history. Before that, Death did not exist, and human beings did not die as they now do. For example, in the sacred scriptural history of the Quiche-Mayas of Central America, the Popol-Vuh, the word death does not appear until mankind's Third Age is described (humanity now being in its Fourth Age according to this tradition). Specifically, in the Book of Chilam Balam of Chumayel, a related Mayan scripture, Death is mentioned as an "invention" of the creative deities that was needed to destroy the crude humans of the Third Age because of their imperfections. "On Three Cimi, there occurred the invention of death. It happened that Deity Our Father invented the first death." Therefore some tribes look upon death with aversion, as an unfortunate interruption of our conscious existence and a threat to life, but one that because of past wrongs committed by man must now be undergone by him until his debt to the Creator is paid. But this conception involves too many complexities for a more detailed treatment here. Much more pertinent are the native teachings that a human being is an entity compounded of a number of "souls" or aspects of consciousness, and that man and all the kingdoms of life exist and evolve in a multilevel or multiplane solar universe. Brinton, discussing American Indian notions of the plurality of a man's "souls," compared these with the Rabbinical teaching of the nephesh, ruahh, and neshamah, or animal, human, and divine souls; and with St. Paul's division, in his Epistle to the Romans, into the bodily soul, the intellectual soul, and the "spiritual gift." Turning to the Siouan peoples of North America's great plains, the Lakota word wanagi, "soul," according to tribal elders really means the totality of the inner entities of the human being, with the presence of Wakan-Tanka or "pure spirit" at their center. Most native peoples in South America east of the Andes mountains believe that a human being has several "souls," which are responsible for the various manifestations of life in the body. And then, we have the beautiful Navajo saying that "Man is Made From Everything." Our multiplaned solar universe is likened in many American cultures to a cosmic tree of many branches: the World Tree or Tree of Life. For some North American peoples the spruce is its symbol, while for Mayans of Central America it is the ceiba tree. Life itself and human generations descend from the root through its branches to the earth or surface plane; in the Quiche-Maya language, for example, the verbs "to descend" and "to be born" are synonyms. This conception of the circulation of lives from top to bottom and on around the great cosmic tree in repetitive cycles of learning, experience, and growth is implicit in every major expression of native American spiritual thought. Physical death, therefore, is simply a temporary departure from the earth plane to others invisible to us, to be followed in due season by a return here for resumption of our unfinished tasks and duties. The manner in which this perspective is set forth in native art forms, ceremonies, architecture, and even implements and utensils such as painted pots and bowls, woven baskets, and designs sewn or woven into dress apparel, is almost endless. Perhaps the most complete statement we have of this solar universe of life is the classical Mayan and Central American image of thirteen heavens or "above-worlds" and nine "underworlds" below the earth world. Comparable are the North American Leni Lenape and Hopi viewpoints. The Big House of the Leni Lenape of Delaware stands for this universe: its floor, the earth, its vault the sky dome over which lie twelve extended levels or planes of being up to the abode of the "Great Spirit, even the Creator," while the ground beneath contains the "underworld." The Hopis of Arizona have their "seven universes, each with its successive worlds, comprising the total of forty-nine stages of man's development along his Road of Life." The Seneca of New York have a closely-held teaching of the Seven Worlds of being. If we turn to South America, it is the same. The Guarani peoples of Southern Brazil and Paraguay, for example, have their seven "paradises" or planes above the earth plane. If we consider all of these ideas together, a most beautiful vision emerges of the place in native American spiritual conception of what we call death, the dissolution of the physical body: it is a mere transition of our real self to other and wider arenas of life and consciousness. Consciousness, then, does not die but endures as part of the unity of all life, the relationship of all living creatures as kindred beings moving in association through the great Tree. This vision is confirmed when we realize, as Hartley Burr Alexander tells us, that the Indian is attached to the form of anything only because of the principle, the conscious essence, that is contained within the transient form. At the same time, the native American approaches these sacred conceptions with awe and reverence because as our great evolution is not completed -- is still in progress -- what is beyond us and what is still to come remains the Great Mystery. This is something to be thought over, contemplated carefully, and served by a high standard of ethical living in the present world so that we may be helped by the higher souls in us, the "spirit beings," more clearly to understand. Carried to its logical conclusion, this conception tells us that some inner portion of our totality is native to each and all of the branches of the cosmic tree that is our solar universe, and therefore undying until the universe itself undergoes its periodic death. " And at 'The Origin of Death - Native American Indian Tribes', one reads the following, called, 'Cheyenne Legend: The Origin of Death': "When the world was created Death did not occur. The Earth became so overcrowded that eventually there wasn't room for any more beings. The Chiefs held Council in the hope that they could resolve the problem. One man felt that it would advantageous if some people died, went away for a while, and then returned. Coyote felt this plan would not work. Eventually when all the people came back from the dead there would not be enough food. All the others could not see the merit in Coyote’s thinking. They did not want their relatives to be gone forever. This, they said, would only cause unhappiness in the World. They all agreed with the first speaker and Coyote stood alone with his plan. So the medicine man built a grass house that faced the east. When someone died he would be placed in the house. The medicine man would sing a song calling the spirit of the dead to the house where the dead person was laid out to rest. Then, when the spirit came, to the happiness of all the people, the dead person would become alive. When it happened that the first person died he was laid to rest in the house and the medicine man summoned the spirit through his song. Ten days later a strong whirlwind came and Coyote rushed to close the door to the house just as the whirlwind was about to enter. The whirlwind, unable to enter the house, swept by the dead person and eternal life ended and death began." In the Book 'Oral literature of the Maasai' by Naomi Kipury, it says: "In the beginning there was no death. This is the story of how death came into the world. There was once a man known as Leeyio who was the first man that Naiteru-kop brought to earth. Naiteru-Kop then called Leeyio and said to him: "When a man dies and you dispose of the corpse, you must remember to say, 'man die and come back again, moon die, and remain away'." Many months elapsed before anyone died. When, in the end, a neighbour's child did die, Leeyio was summoned to dispose of the body. When he took the corpse outside, he made a mistake and said: "Moon die and come back again, man die and stay away." So after that no man survived death. A few more months elapsed, and Leeyio's own child went missing. So the father took the corpse outside and said: "Moon die and remain away, man die and come back again." On hearing this, Naiteru-kop said to Leeyio: "You are too late now for, through your own mistake, death was born the day when your neighbour's child died." So that is how death came about, and that is why up to this day when a man dies he does not return, but when the moon dies, it always comes back again." (Notes: 1. Naiteru-kop literally means 'the beginner of the earth' 2. The Maasai never refer to a dead man as 'dead'. In the case of young people, they talk of him as being 'missing' (etalaki). For old people, they are said to 'have slept'.) We will note here, among other Things, the Notion that there was a specific Time upon which Death appeared. Now that we fairly have a general Idea of the traditional Views - religious Doctrines included - let's turn our Attention to the so-called modern, largely secular World with Art, Philosophy and Sciences in the Foreground Mr Damien Hirst, a contemporary british Painter, is the last Time quite often in the News for his Work on the Aesthetic of Death. Some find it controversial, disturbing, even utterly tasteless; others praise the Geniality, Wisdom and Realism of the Artist. One way or the other, Death is on central Stage in the most prestigious Art Galleries and Death sells good... The Attitude towards Death in the modern World could largely be characterized as one of Awe, Fascination, Denial and Fear; a Fear in some Cases so great it leads to Taboo and that, despite the Nature of our daily Life itself, where Death is omnipresent - in Motion Pictures, Plays, Novels, Video Games!, Newspapers, in the News... Herr Meier underlined this Contradiction in: "Doch während des Lebens macht er sich kaum oder überhaupt keine Gedanken darum, geschweige denn, dass Gefühle entstehen könnten, die sich mit dem Tod befassen. Gedanken daran werden gar aus dem Bewusstsein verbannt, obwohl es besser wäre, eingehend darüber nachzudenken, um den wirklichen Sinn des Todes zu verstehen, denn dadurch würde auch der Sinn des Lebens klar. Doch mitnichten werden ein Gedanke und ein Gefühl darauf gerichtet, und dies obwohl der Mensch täglich mit Hiobsbotschaften von Krieg, Verbrechen, Unglücksfällen, Mord und Katastrophen konfrontiert wird, die tausendfachen Tod fordern. Aber kaum jemand denkt daran, dass dieser Tod auch das eigene Leben treffen kann. Ganz offenbar scheinen viele Menschen zu glauben, dass der Tod nur die andern treffe, jedoch nicht die eigene Person." On November 13th 2008, the Newspaper 'The New York Times' published an Article from its February 13th 1876 Issue, called 'The Fear of Death in Ancient and Modern Times', with the following Conclusion : "In comparing the grounds for fearing death in ancient and in modern times, it may be said roughly that the physical terrors of death are constant, while the moral terrors are variable." Likewise at 'DN/Online', the Ball State Daily News Online, we find the Article 'Gouge away: Death Conversations remains Taboo even in modern Times' by Jonathan Titchenal, a Senior Psychology Major(Courtesy of Mr Will O'Hargan): "There are certain drawbacks to living in a civilized society. Don't get me wrong, there are scads and scads of benefits, but with technology, conveniences and controlled medicine comes a certain removal from the basic, often brutal truths of life. How many of you have seen someone die? I mean, close enough to watch the light go out of their eyes, to hear the last breath? Not very many, I suspect. How many of you have actually seen a dead person, outside of an open-casket funeral. You see what I'm getting at here? It might sound morbid, but it's something that's been on my mind lately. Must be the season. There aren't a lot of taboos in this day and age. Okay, well, compared to Victorian times, or the 1940's, there aren't a lot of taboos. Yet somehow we've managed to make death into a verboten topic. Sex is pretty much par for the course as dinner conversation goes, but a serious or semi-serious discussion of death? You'd better have some very close friends and a lot of wine. Otherwise, people are going to clam up and search for a reason to head home early. Unless it comes suddenly, or violently, we tend to know when death is approaching, and we get the soon-to-be-departed into a hospital. If we witness their departure, it's in the sterile and closely controlled hospital environment, and nobody touches the recently departed (there's that word again. Like someone waiting for a train) after death. They hide 'em away, paint 'em up -- or burn 'em -- and that's that. Go say hello to the headstone. Kind of impersonal for a phenomenon which is pretty much guaranteed to happen to you sometime in the next ninety years or so. Now, I know my mother and father sat me down at the tender age of thirteen and talked very frankly with me about sex, and why I might one day want to try it. To the best of my knowledge, though, they never actually came out and explained death. It was that thing that happened when no one was looking, that everyone heard about later. Sure, I could have been sheltered, but I asked several people of my age the same question -- were you ever told what death was all about -- and got back answers very similar to my own. So what the heck? Should we have a Death Ed class in school? I know BSU actually runs a Death and Dying class, but isn't it a bit late at this point? No one ever bothered to show me a "Miracle of Death" film in high school, or take me to visit a funeral home, or even to tell me the most vital and confusing truth about death and dying: We don't know why it happens. Do we want our children to grow up in this sterile environment? Do we want to ignore it, and hope it will go away? I don't know, and it's not my place to decide. Ask your government. Ask your fellow citizens. Just ... not during a social situation. Y'know? Death is the only god who comes when you call." For the modern City People, Death is indeed pretty unpleasant! - unless it conveniently frees the Way for some major material Acquisitions(Testament, Heritage...). As already seen in Ancient Greece, Death - together with all that goes by and is understood under the Word 'Death' as Suicide - has very often been the Subject of philosophical Reflections. Jean Paul-Sartre, for Instance, wrote once that 'Suicide' is the fundamental philosophical Question of all Times. He went on to reflect on the Meaning of Suicide. Is Suicide the ultimate Wisdom in the Face of the Absurdity and the Contingency of human Existence, or the supreme Act of Irresponsibility and Cowardness before Being and its Demands? We all know, how the Japanese Samurai, for Instance, would answer to that. And Herr Meier? Quote: "Selbst wenn der Mensch sich selbst tötet, besitzt er keine Macht darüber, denn durch die Selbsttötung entweicht er nur der wirklichen Zeit, die durch ihn selbst festgelegt wird, folglich wird ein Richten des eigenen Lebens zu einem fakt der Zerstörung und der feigen Flucht aus dem Leben und vor der wahrnehmung der Verantwordung gegenüber diesem und gegenüber dem Tod." Philosophers have indeed developed numerous Theories on Death. Next Time, more Views from Representatives of the secular World - including Artists, Poets, Writers, political and social Leaders and of course the so-called established Philosophies and Philosophers. And what Herr Meier makes of them. Salome. Adam. | ||
Redbeard Member Post Number: 39 Registered: 04-2006 |
Hello all, just wanted to say that all of you that read and post on this forum are very fortunate to have found this information and we should all walk and talk in gratitude that we found this great truth and to be able to use this means of communication. Sometimes though this type of communication is impersonal and disconnected and very much intellectual and missing some of the human warmth and self control that would be present if we were in the same room. For many of us, I would hazard an assumption here, this is the only place, and we are the only people that, we can talk to about this material to this level. Many new people will look to us to see the results of this superior knowledge in action springing forth from the resulting wisdom, evidenced in how we treat each other on this forum. There is always someone new that is transitioning from a religion or some other background or belief system, we must hold ourselves to a high standard of human dignity in how we converse with each other so that the people that are searching for the truth don't get turned away by our crudeness and lack of humane warmth that is difficult to communicate electronically. I appreciate all of you and am amazed by the grasp that you have on these concepts and truths and your ability to communicate. However I must say I don't always enjoy some of the discussions that become endless loops of rebuttals with little benefit. I want to say that taking personal responsibility for our lives has to be the most difficult part of this teaching as it requires the most effort and focus to achieve. With that I'm going out on a limb here and tell you what my son told me as we were discussing the topic of online forum debates. He said that winning a debate online is like winning the Gold Metal in the Special Olympics. You won but you are still retarded. With the best intentions, Matt | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 391 Registered: 10-2007 |
* *** Greetings in Peace, Creational Zihla, In my Post, which You quoted, I said: ["...I have made observation of this myself, to point out to Another in the Section of Your Reference. We shall cut these Weeds when they appear, which may seem 'harsh' to some Ones, but Billy would do no less.”] in Your same Post then, You said: ["Instead, my friend, this forum body may need to celebrate each time with the addition of every single member so it could, “silently reveal the truth to the four corners of earth or the universe”, not to discourage them.'] The "Weeds" of my reference, are intended to make reference to the religious overtones which have been creeping into these Forums. Certainly, everyone is entitled to their Opinion, but such religious nonsense detracts from the discussion of Spiritual Growth. This is NOT meant to dis-bar ANYONE from Posting here. ALL are WELCOME. We need to hear all creative and original Ideas from everyone. If I have written something which You find 'offensive' I am truly Sorry. I say the same to Member PathFinder: I do not intend to offend You, if You have taken any offense from my writings, I am truly Sorry. Member Phenix, So much Effort in Your Translations in Your Post #141. It will take some considerable 'Time' to do a proper review, and to absorb the Meaning. In reviewing Your Past Efforts, Your Translations are of High Quality, only needing a little 'touch-up' in the Syntax. Keep up the Good Work. Your Efforts are very much Appreciated. Mit DANKBARER Anerkennung, Bruder im Geist. Salome *** * From One Eternal Spiritual Being to All Others, Awaken to Your true Essential Being J_rod7 | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 469 Registered: 07-2004 |
Hi Matt, This is funny: "With that I'm going out on a limb here and tell you what my son told me as we were discussing the topic of online forum debates. He said that winning a debate online is like winning the Gold Metal in the Special Olympics. You won but you are still retarded." It is only partly true. Somethings performed in a repetition are necessary to form a clarification of a well hidden deception. This is not the same thing as beating a dead dog. But I do appreciate your desire to ease the awkwardness of exposing someone's misrepresentations of these priceless truths. Salome, a friend in america Shawn | ||
Phenix Member Post Number: 142 Registered: 07-2008 |
ERRATUM! Beste Empfehlung, Kameraden, In my Post 141(Nov. 14/2008), One must absolutely read 'OF' instead of 'IS' in: [Idem: ' The Truth IS the Teaching of Ontology, the Teaching of the Being, itself proves/demonstrates/establishes/substantiates this, also if - among other Things - the spiritual Form of BEING must be understood/included into this(into The Teaching of Ontology).[...]] Hence: "Die Wahrheit der Lehre der Ontologie, der Lehre des Seins, selbst beweist dies, auch wenn hierzu zu anderen, namälich zur geistigen Form des SEINs gegriffen muss." Must be:['The Truth of the Teaching of Ontology, the Teaching of the Being, itself proves/demonstrates/establishes/substantiates this, also if - among other Things - the spiritual Form of BEING must be understood/included into this(into The Teaching of Ontology).'] I make Amend: - Meine Frau ist eine große Tierfreundin, aber dadurch wird das Leben zu Hause oft ungemütlich. Sie ist ganz verrückt auf Goldfische, Kanarienvögel, Hunde und Katzen. Ihre nicht? - Es ist nicht ganz dasselbe. Die meine hat lieber Nerz, Biber und Hermelin... Herr J_rod7, Es ist ganz gegenseitig. Besten Dank für Alles, Bruder im Geist! Salome, Adam. | ||
Pathfinder Member Post Number: 72 Registered: 10-2008 |
Responding to gaia, I have started a thread in the planet earth board under the religion topic to address your concerns about my views being religious. i think Scott would direct us there anyway. But in short you say that Jmmanuel did not bring religion to the world. I am guessing by that statement that you mean to say that Jmmanuel did not corrupt the truth of the religion that he brought to the world. is that what you meant? because we are all fully aware that he certainly DID bring the message to the world which religion then corrupted to serve their own purposes. You also continue to ignore my spiritual outlook on the material aspects of life not being as important as the spiritual aspects of life, and suggest that the body is as important as the spirit. I say this to you from the words of Semjase, "In his spiritual consciousness, he (man) will always be-in his innermost part-one with each and everything. In his interior, in his spiritual consciousness, he will identify himself with everything in the universe, in the same manner that the other one, who thinks materialistically, identifies himself with his body, " Will you choose to continue to be the OTHER one Gaia? "The human shall see himself for just what he really is. Generally he identifies himself with his body. He cares for it like it were a gem, he nurtures it and takes trouble for it until self-sacrifice. He surrounds it with pride, junk and a stupid delusion, while he lets his spirit become stunted. However, a little bit of pain makes him angry, sullen and uncomfortable against other ones, or he even starts complaining and crying, has self-pity and robs himself of his life. He surrounds his body with some nondescript halo and with vanity, fear, sorrow, pride and problems. More and more often, everything revolves around his body only. Often he extends his body identity towards his material possessions, or he gets upset if some fellowman involuntarily touches it. Yet, what will a human do about it when he has recognized the spiritual truth? He will identify himself with all things and all the world's life forms and the universes." gaia, instead of identifying yourself with the material things as though they are equal to eternity, when you know they are merely passing away in seconds compared to the eternity of the spirit, you should identify yourself with the powerfully eternal spirit that you are, that transcends all material aspects of creation, because you are the power which creates it. "Therefore nothing may mislead him to un-truth and falseness, because his entire BEING is in the creational cognition of infinite truth." Contact 18:62 | ||
Pathfinder Member Post Number: 74 Registered: 10-2008 |
Jrod, no hard feelings, these are senstive topics. I am not taking any of this personally, but I can easily avoid the discussions if they get personal with the click of a mouse. No big deal! "Therefore nothing may mislead him to un-truth and falseness, because his entire BEING is in the creational cognition of infinite truth." Contact 18:62 | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 393 Registered: 10-2007 |
* *** Hello Adam, [- Meine Frau ist eine große Tierfreundin..."], Wow - Ha ha hah... Ein wahrer Zoo und Menagerie rund um das Haus. Ja, ich habe zu lachen an diesem. Ich hoffe, dass sie reinigt hinter ihnen. Sie hat ihre Arbeit für das Leben. Unser Zoo ist aber eine Katze. Danke für die gute Stimmung. Salome *** * From One Eternal Spiritual Being to All Others, Awaken to Your true Essential Being J_rod7 | ||
Borthwey Member Post Number: 49 Registered: 09-2007 |
Pathfinder, Being in connection with one’s body is important. Knowing what it needs, and what it can do. Playing sports, for example, gets one in connection with the body, with the exchange of information that takes place. Some people may not be particularly fond of their bodies. But it certainly isn’t a “spiritual” thing to do to disregard one’s body, the body is what allows us to experience life, it can be a source of pain but it can be fun to use as well, especially if it is in good shape. Now, none of what I mentioned is equal with identifying oneself with one’s body. Can you realise this difference? The body is just a tool; it’s like a car, an airplane or a beamship. You can identify yourself with your body in the sense that you identify yourself with all of Creation, because everything is connected. However, each of us is unique, and each of us bears a tiny fragment of the original creational energy. It’s a unique part of Creation, never to be repeated again (our spirit). David | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 395 Registered: 10-2007 |
* *** To All, Follow this Link (copy/paste): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNVKcrQq74w&feature=related A message on the Light of Life. Some beautiful Graphics, too (make it 'full-screen). In Peace *** * From One Eternal Spiritual Being to All Others, Awaken to Your true Essential Being J_rod7 | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 470 Registered: 07-2004 |
Hi Creational, You show amazing depth with your short time as a member. Me thinks you've been a guest for a long time. Salome a friend in america Shawn | ||
Pathfinder Member Post Number: 77 Registered: 10-2008 |
Hi David, I do not disagree with you for the most part. I have not been saying that we can not regard the body and use it to evolve. I do understand its use and also the opportunities it affords us while we are in it. What I am saying is that we should not place equal importance on it and that we do not allow it to take precedence over the spirit. we should not ignore the needs of our spirit to accommodate the needs of the body to satisfy physical and material lusts. we should be constantly and continuously living in recognition of the spirit that we are. And constantly means with every thought and breath. We must never for a minute allow our physical needs to supercede the spirit, not even during sexual encounters. We must strive to learn how to accomplish this state of BEING. Now we all know that in our presenst state we are not going to be able to accomplish this 24 hours a day with every waking moment. Most humans are just unable to be that spiritual. This is why some take such great offense to this teaching. It pushes their guilt button and dangles a carrot that they cannot keep up with and it infuriates them. But, we also cannot attain a half physical form yet either. Does that mean that we should halt our evolution? We should be striving to become pure spirit, whcih we will reach at some point in our evolution. It is what we all move toward. And here and now we should be always doing that which will help to attain that goal and evolve us further. It is our goal to acheive higher states of spirituality by constantly learning and expereiencing the spiritual. I disagree with you on the point you made about us bearing a tiny part of creation. Not that you are wrong in how you say that, but that you may not understand when you say that how it diminishes the power that you have in your spirit. The spirit you have within you has the power of creation itself and it is fully and completely able to move mountains if only you knew how to use that power. It is referred to as a fragment because it is a component of creation which is simply one of many millions of other components, but to refer to it as a tiny fragment and thinking that by tiny you mean less powerful than creation, you take away from its actual power. for instance a piece of a pie is a fragment of the one pie, but each and every piece is the pie itself and each piece is as much the pie as the whole pie. It wouldn't matter which piece you take, it would still be as much the pie as any other piece. regardless of how many small pieces you might divide it into you will not diminish the pie or any of its pieces. The tiniest piece will be every bit as much as the entire pie itself. Were you to take one small bite of that pie anywhere from the pan, you would not be able to tell the difference from a bite of it anywhere else in that pan. Each and every morsel is the pie. This is what I have been saying and it is hard for some to accept because they want to honor creation with a godlike stature, and when they do this they are the ones acting religiously. they separate themselves from the power of creation and when they do they separate themselves from creation. And in so doing they do not realize the power within them and do not evolve further. it is only by understanding thios truth that we may evolve further and be able to use that power of the spirit that is within us. if they ever hope to be able to use their telepathic abilities they must overcome this materialistic attitude and recognize the need to build and empower their spirit. a feat that is possible to them right now, but one that requires a tuning and upgrading of their spirit, which will require constant attention and devotion to acheive. Or they can continue thinking on the importance of their bodies and make their spiritual abilitites wait for the next incarnation to expand in ability and skill. It will happen, it is simply a matter of when and how long they will make that wait by hanging onto their present material forms as more important. "Therefore nothing may mislead him to un-truth and falseness, because his entire BEING is in the creational cognition of infinite truth." Contact 18:62 | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 472 Registered: 07-2004 |
Hi, J=rod7 This video is a common theme that runs through the 'New Age Thinking' paradigm. While they ramble on about the obvious challenges man faces, they always maintain a bottom line that says, '2012' here it comes! Oh my god!, be Scared. Yet with the visuals to distract from the reality of what is presented, simple minds are led into the idea 2012 is a cataclysmic event. Hell, just fighting off the greed and control factors man thirsts for, will make for a world changing event. The point is, 2012 will be another year amongst the many years that are going to redirect the thoughts of millions, which will effect billions, which will take hundreds of years. 2012 is such a lame distraction it makes many here roll their eyes. Wow! Sounds like I'm speaking for others huh? I speak for myself, but my logic rebounds off of what Billy explains regarding 2012. Can you see where I'm coming from? a friend in america Shawn | ||
Borthwey Member Post Number: 50 Registered: 09-2007 |
Pathfinder, you wrote “We should be striving to become pure spirit, which we will reach at some point in our evolution.” I do not see the word spirit in the sense of the opposition of spiritual versus material. “Spirit” means the reason behind something. To think spiritually is to think creatively. It’s not at all about what one does, but about the reason behind our actions and what we are trying to achieve. However, I understand that you are probably referring to the problem of being overcome by material lust, or bodily desires, and where the opposition is between living from what is low and living from what is high. The word “overcome” defines the situation here. It means that it is not your real desire to live from what is low. But, once you stop needing something, that’s when you can truly enjoy it (in the right spirit). You enjoy it because you want to, not because you are being led into it (without spirit). The problem is that in using the “we” you are making generalisations based on your individual situation and/or a certain group of people you have in mind, and you may be misunderstood. Because the situation you are referring to is not an issue in everybody’s lives, and that doesn’t have anything to do with what they do or not, it’s the “why” that counts. About your disagreement on the use of the word “tiny”, you wrote: “for instance a piece of a pie is a fragment of the one pie, but each and every piece is the pie itself and each piece is as much the pie as the whole pie. It wouldn't matter which piece you take, it would still be as much the pie as any other piece. regardless of how many small pieces you might divide it into you will not diminish the pie or any of its pieces. The tiniest piece will be every bit as much as the entire pie itself. Were you to take one small bite of that pie anywhere from the pan, you would not be able to tell the difference from a bite of it anywhere else in that pan. Each and every morsel is the pie.” This example doesn’t go in any way against what I wrote before. Consider a given crumble of the cake: the bigger the cake, the smaller the crumble is compared to the whole. That’s all that is meant by “tiny”, and it is not meant in a “diminishing” way as you imply. For each “crumble” is also a replication of the whole, in a certain way. I think that the example given by member Thomas in the “The Creation itself” topic also corroborates this well. David | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 400 Registered: 10-2007 |
* *** Hi Shawn, I would say, I got a little enamored with the 'Eye-Candy' in that video. I did not listen all too closely to the message. Yeah, I agree to Your point that 2012 is yet another Number. Consider, too, that the Energy of so MANY Humans' Expectations may produce some tangible Effects. We are, after all, moving along with our 'SpaceShip' Earth through the Plane of the Galactic Center. This last occurred some 26,000-Years ago. Salome *** * From One Eternal Spiritual Being to All Others, Awaken to Your true Essential Being J_rod7 | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 477 Registered: 07-2004 |
Hi David, I don't mean to interrupt, but you hit one out of the park with your statements. I will return to your post #50 many times I see. The bare simplicity you express makes it all the more golden. Thank you for sharing this. Salome, a friend in america Shawn | ||
Creational Member Post Number: 21 Registered: 09-2008 |
Hello everyone, Sorry, I was derailed from this fascinating, yet fast train of intellectual barter; because I was dealing with the California disastrous fire, only to realize that many of you responded to my posts. Dear J-rod7, Your posts 390-391 show the depth of your character. I thank you for caring, I too am sorry if I misunderstood. Dear Thomas, Although, in my view, my assumption was logical, nevertheless, it WAS an assumption, hence such action is typically not productive. Thank you for taking the time to clarify and remind me. Dear Phenix, This is in regards to your post number 141, I AM SIMPLY SPEECHLESS. This is the warmest possible welcome one can get, having had the privilege of joining such great minds. You brought tears in my eyes and joy in my heart. How can I ever make up for this gratitude? Just the act of providing us with these time consuming and difficult translations is gracious enough for all of us. I will cherish this forever. Thank you, thank you, thank you… Dear Shawn, Wow, thank you so much. You are right, I may seem to be new here, but I have a feeling, we all have met before. As a matter of fact, since we don’t know one another physically, the spiritual bondage has a profound depth unlike any other I have come across. This feel like a family we once were. After all, how did you feel when you first learnt about BEAM’s material? I personally felt right at home. Also, your point about making it short and sweet is a great one. I do my best to do so from now on. Salome Zhila, The inevitable evolution facilitates our retreat back to our source, the mighty Creation. Let us then praise this absolute foundation called Creation and be a part of this universal evolution or be extinct as a species. After all, it is up to us. | ||
Creational Member Post Number: 22 Registered: 09-2008 |
Salute, In support of both Thomas and David; Although a molecule of a body of water have the same chemical characteristics of the whole but there are other traits such as physical ones between the two that differ profoundly. One of the most misleading trends, IMO, in the Western discipline is the specialization and sub-specialization of all sciences. This has caused a split in dealing with characteristics shying away from the wholesomeness of things in the interim. Let me explain. Each being has many different characteristics such as, mental, genetic, psychological, chemical, physical, spiritual, mechanical, experimental, dimensional and evolutional stage, just to name a few. To be an exact same beings, one must share not one or some but ALL of these characteristics. Thus everything has its own uniqueness except creation that has it all, and that is creation's uniqueness as well but all inclusive. Pause and think about this for just a second. This is the reason why, even us humans differ while we are all from the same herd. Creation is the one and only entity, for the lack of a better word, that shares the entire characteristic of everything and nothing; both the tangible and the intangible; most beyond our comprehension. We do not share everything with a sheep but creation does. Besides, if we only think in terms of size, there is your difference. According to these teachings, we are however in the greatest journey to hopefully, someday, share all of these characteristics with the Ur-Creation; kind of melt into one another; even then there are different stages. At least this is my personal take so far. salome Zhila, The inevitable evolution facilitates our retreat back to our source, the mighty Creation. Let us then praise this absolute foundation called Creation and be a part of this universal evolution or be extinct as a species. After all, it is up to us. | ||
Pathfinder Member Post Number: 92 Registered: 10-2008 |
I guess the only way to really get my point across is to say it this way: I believe that many are looking at the spirit as a part of creation in the way that a rock is a part of creation as someone else suggested. And although this is true and i do not argue that fact, I also see where many will not realize the importance of the spirit in the role of creation as a result. One cannot compare the spirit to a rock simply because they are both a part of the same creation. And one should not ignore the important and vital role of the spirit in creation. yes, we need the body and the material world to evolve our spirits. and living this life will involve a great difficulty in being spiritual at all times. But difficulty should not be a deterent to our at least trying. IMHO,( you will have to look that up Gaia), even though we do become a new identity with each incarnation, we are still the same evolved spirit, and I am open to correction here to a degree with regards to appropriate terminolgy, but remember that as we evolve we become who and what we are based upon our degree of evolution so we need to start looking at ourselves as a degree of evolution instead of a new spirit every time we incarnate. My point is this: Each one of us has a unique spirit within him, at a level of evolution different from each other based on our collective experiences. It is not simply a rock or a piece of pie or a cell. It is something that Creation has brought into existense to continue its own evolution. we are not merely a part of our own personal evolution, but a part of the evolution of Creation itself, so therefore each one of us is Creation. we are Creation at work evolving itself. And as a special aspect of creation much different from a rock, as some have suggested, as rocks are not assisting in the evolution of creation but simply a material part of it, we are to be elevated above such material aspects of creation. a part of the whole, but a more significant part given our roles. as this significant factor of creation each one of has a spirit within us that is not only capable of evolution, but is also capable of the full power of Creation itself. THIS is the key to what I am saying. Right now any one of you has the ability to create a planet if you wanted to. What is disabling you from doing so is not the power of your spirit, but the fact that you have not yet learned to use that power. THAT is what our evolution is accomplishing. we have the key to the door, we just have to learn how to place it in the keyhole. We have the power to do that, we just don't have the knowledge to perform the function. Our spirit is the key to Creation. Creation is learning from its own evolution, and we are adding to that knowledge with our experiences. Creation evolves as we evolve, we are creation. so we should not be taking our spiritual aspect so lightly. we must place it over and above all that is physical. When we become pure spirit we will understand the truth of this first hand, but right now we can only try to understand this and strive toward it. Being a cell in a physical embodiment, being a fragment of creation as a whole, and becoming a new identity with every reincarnation, is NOT who we are. We are Creation, creation evolves through us. i am sure that Creation could evolve without us, but that is not the case, and I trust that Creation knows what it is doing. Now I am certain there is terminology here that is inappropraite and that those who like to argue will use to dismiss everything else that is said. But if anyone can show me where I am wrong about our spirits being an intricate part of the evolution of Creation, and therefore not something to equate with the material, but to hold above and holy, I would appreciate some directions. If need be I can post some clips from the writing of Billy and the Plejaren which also teach the same thing to my understanding, but thats seems to be a waste lately and only comes off as religious which scares some members away from reading them. "Therefore nothing may mislead him to un-truth and falseness, because his entire BEING is in the creational cognition of infinite truth." Contact 18:62 | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 405 Registered: 10-2007 |
* *** Hi Edward Pathfinder, Your mention of 'KEY' in this context: ["...we have the key to the door, we just have to learn how to place it in the keyhole. We have the power to do that, we just don't have the knowledge to perform the function."], triggered my own Memory again. Then, I remembered that I had made a previous Post, #340, on October 26, which You may not yet have seen. Following is a repost of the salient Section...: Many years ago, during an introspective Period of my Life, I had the following Experience...: During a State of Meditation, I found myself in a Vision, standing in an Endless Expanse of rolling green Grass. Over gently rolling Hills, the wind rolling the Grass like waves on the Ocean. I could see in the Distance what looked like a Sand-colored Wall, which stretched form Horizon to Horizon without End. Curious, I approached the Wall, which loomed Taller as I got Nearer. An Unscalable tall Wall, a hundred or more foot tall, following along the Hills as far in both directions as I could see. In the Wall before me, a Huge Door - Heavy, closed, and Locked with an Immense Lock. The Thought came into my Mind, "How am I ever going to Open This Door?" Then, as it occurred to Me to look at my Hand, I saw that I was holding a Golden Key. Upon REALIZING that I held the Key, and looking back to the Door, the Door now stood Wide Open. I entered into a place of pure Light. This is the Important Point, the Lesson I learned: We ALL Hold the Key. We always have it. All We have to do is ASK, and that Door is Opened. Now, then, where You say: ["we just don't have the knowledge to perform the function"], the foregoing is self-explanatory. We DO 'Have it'. We always have it. The Promise was made long ago = ASK, and It Will Be Opened. Salome *** * From One Eternal Spiritual Being to All Others, Awaken to Your true Essential Being J_rod7 | ||
Pathfinder Member Post Number: 94 Registered: 10-2008 |
Jrod, I think we need to do a little more than just ask . Its not a magic door that we just say the magic word to. We must, through our experiences in life, and using the logic which has evolved within us to recognize truth and law, learn what we need to know to access those abilities of the spirit that lie within us. we cannot simply ask a mountain to move, but when we learn how to enhance our spiritual abilities to that degree, we can then use that power to move it. "Therefore nothing may mislead him to un-truth and falseness, because his entire BEING is in the creational cognition of infinite truth." Contact 18:62 | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 407 Registered: 10-2007 |
* *** Pathfinder, The Experience of AWAKENING Knowledge, is an event which will always be a Treasure. Should We, then, refute Your Awakening Experience which You wrote in the "How I Know Billy" Section? Was that Your only ONE such Experience in Life? I do not either engage in 'Magical Thinking.' The Life of the Spirit is ALL NATURAL. The Promise was made long ago = ASK, and It Will Be Opened. Have You forgotten how to ASK? Do You think this Promise means nothing? Salome *** * From One Eternal Spiritual Being to All Others, Awaken to Your true Essential Being J_rod7 | ||
Pathfinder Member Post Number: 101 Registered: 10-2008 |
no not all Jrod, i do not take away from awakenings at all. But to become aware of an awakening takes an open mind and an ability to see it for what it is. the awakenings that you and I have had were certainly fortunate for us, and lead us into further truth, but many people have these awakenings all the time and never see the depth or meaning of them and take them for granted, or take them as something they aren't and end up being led into false relgion because of them. Remember that my awakening, although it did make me aware of creation, led me first into the Christian world of the Bible. Now had I not continued to search for truth I could easily have been caught up in the passion that I found there, and stopped looking and just became comfortable with my acceptance. The same with you Jrod. you could have easily been led into any one of many religions yourself, but you continued to hold true to truth and fact. remember that 'ask and it shall be opened' passage is from religion and I am not sure it hasnt been corrupted as well. I agree with your basics, I just wanted to add that the responsibility is still on us to apply logic to the things we confront in this life so as to be able to discern the truth from them. The key that we hold is a power in us, not some universal key that opens every door in existence. The power is in the spirit, as logic that has evolved in us, that lies within our whole consciousness block. I think thats the right term. And by using this logic we can then figure out where and how to use the key. "Therefore nothing may mislead him to un-truth and falseness, because his entire BEING is in the creational cognition of infinite truth." Contact 18:62 | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 485 Registered: 07-2004 |
Hi Zhila, I am glad you are a student of Billy's teachings. While there are generations to go before his words become the thoughts of the leaders on our planet, I know each time his message rings true with someone that cares in only the way a mother can show, we all move that much quicker to a world that suddenly awakens from the present of a poison apple, given to it as a supposed gift by the evil power-hungry , by the kiss of a handsome prince. The handsome prince surely must be the truth from Billy that will begin forming in the minds of our future leaders. The poison apple may be the greed and lust for power of the elitist who cling to the lure their evil deeds bring. I place the Earth as the fair maiden who is unassuming and vulnerable. My analogy, as corny as it sounds, is meant to point out what I started to say, which is this; The base of power of the churches, is anchored in the strong beliefs that are fostered in the mothers of the families that attend/support religions. Their efforts in keeping a family close are strongly supported by the religious establishments. The leaders of religions always seem to focus on the emotions that are so much more generally pronounced in a female. The natural genetic need to nurture the young, or help the weak, old etc., is a source for control to the religious leaders. Each time they lose the support of the mothers of the world, their undoing is just around the corner. I'm sure your aware of all the recent settlements the Catholic Church has made to the many children their clergy were alleged to have molested. The real costs was in the FAITH that they destroyed in all the matriarchs of their congregations. Older women are less affected by the negative of this revelation, but the ones who are to replace these foundations in the church, the newest mothers, are more knowing and not willing to continue the farce much longer. I don't have any idea of your interactions with churches or such, just pointing to an example of where we can have hope realized. May your energy spread far and affect all you touch. also women are the beautiful part of humanity in so many ways. Sorry, gushing again. a friend in america Shawn | ||
Phenix Member Post Number: 148 Registered: 07-2008 |
Beste Empfehlung, sehr geehrter Herr Moderator, I would like to submit the second Part of the comparative Study of 'Leben und Tod sind untrennbar miteinander verbunden' von Billy. Besten Dank for your Leadership and Understanding. PART TWO. Kameraden, we shall begin by expressing our heartful Gratitude to the Team Dyson and Vivienne for their Effort and Commitment. I got Tears in my Eyes from the Translation of Contact Report Volume 5 they recently provided. What a Great man indeed! What a Lesson of Honor and both genuine Humility and Grandeur! I shall certainly reflect on that Text every Time my social Life fails to meet my Expectations - or when i get puzzled by my Lady Friend. I urge everyone to do the same. [NOTE: The honorable Member Hector compared 'Kelch der Wahrheit' to judiciary Books, in his Post 452(Nov. 16/2008). This Statement can apply to all the Works des Herrn Meier i so far have had the Privilege to hold in my Hands in their Totality; they form a logical, rigorous, complementary System - like a Spiral. There will be Quotes from the Part 'Anhang' of 'Dekalog' below. In the subsequent unauthorized, unofficial and rather literal Translations, the following should be taken into Consideration: (...) stands for Words in German, which could not be necessary in English. Example: 'The Meaning of Life' = 'Der Sinn des Lebens', whereby in German there is an Article(das-des; the) before 'Life', which is not necessary here in English - or in the contrary. [...] indicates complementary Words, Explanations i added, when i intuitively understood the Meaning of a given Sentence, but was unable to find the single, suitable english Word to render it. Further, in order to fully follow the Structure of the Original, 'him', 'he' would be used to indicate the Human Being.] We will introduce this Part with the following Observation of Herr Meier: "Durch sein Streben nach Höherem und Vollkommenerem in evolutivem Gang ist der Mensch gewillt, nach jedem Strohhalm zu greifen, der ihm ein Fortkommen und Geborgenheit verspricht. Dies aber machen sich falsche Philosophien, Religionen und Sekten und sonstig abartige, falsche Weltanschauungen zu Nutzen. Sie gaukeln dem im Streben suchenden Menschen vor, einen Weg aus dem Dilemma der Ängste und der Sterblichkeit gefunden zu haben. Sie predigen bewusst irreführend, dass eine Antwort auf die tiefgründigen Fragen des Lebens und des Todes einzig und allein in den Philosophien, Religionen und Sekten sowie diversen anderen Weltanschauungen zu finden sei. Mitnichten aber ist dies die Wahrheit, denn wahrheitlich ist es nur Lug und Betrug. Auch wenn besonders Philosophien manchmal sehr staunenswerte Tiefblicke in die Mysterien des Lebens und des Todes getan haben, so können sie trotzdem keinen Anspruch darauf erheben, einen praktisch erprobten oder auch nur zaghaft gangbaren Weg zu kennen oder gar die Wahrheit selbst erfasst zu haben. Also können sie keine Auskunft geben darüber, welcher gangbare Weg über den Tod hinausführt. [...]Doch wie könnte dies auch anders sein, wenn das Streben als schöpferisches Gesetz in einer jeglichen Existenz und Kreation und im gesamten Leben nicht erkannt wird. Und wie könnte es auch anders sein, da doch Philosophien einzig und allein auf Annahmen aufgebaut sind, die niemals als Wahrheit nachgewiesen werden können[...].(Dekalog; Seiten 98-99) That is: 'By/through his Striving towards/after/for [the] Higher/Grand/Exalted/Elevated/August/Sublime and [the] more Perfect/Elevated in 'evolutive' Course[in a Course/Pace/Trend/a Way which corresponds to/enhances Evolution] the Human is determined/is enclin/disposed/willing to reach for each/any given Straw, which promises him (a) Progress and (a) Security. However false/erroneous Philosophies, Religions and Sects and other abnormal, wrong World Views make use of this[they misuse this Tendency of Humans for their own Purpose]. They hold out/delude with/dangle[false Hopes] before the Human searching in Striving[that] they have found a Way out of the Dilemma of (the) Fears and (the) Mortality/Death. They preach, consciously/Purposely misleading, that an Answer to the deep Questions of (the) Life and (the) Death is to be found[would: Assumption] simply and solely[only] in Philosophies, Religions and Sects as well as in various other World Views. This however is by no Means the Truth, for truly this is only Lies/Falsehood/a Whopper and Deceit/Fraud/Guile. Also even if particularly Philosophies sometimes took very astonishing deep Look into the Mysteries of (the) Life and (the)Death, they are nevertheless unable to lay Claim to/claim/pretend to them[the Mysteries of Life and Death], [they are unable] to know one practically tested or even - be it only timidely/apprehensively/timorously/bashfully - passable/practicable or even[to claim] to have seized the Truth itself. Likewise they cannot[are unable to] give Information/Clarification/Explanation/Enlightenment/Elucidation over it[the Question to know], which passable/practicable Way explains/expounds/enunciates/sets forth over[regarding] Death. [...] This could not be different[by no Means], if[considering that] Striving is not recognized as [the] creative/creational Law in each/any given Existence and Creation and in the entire Life. And how could it also be different, since[considering that] Philosophies are after all simply and solely developed/built on/upon Assumptions, which can never be proven as (the) Truth/to be the Truth [...].'(Dekalog; Pages 98-99) Now then. Philosophers have developed various Theories of Death, we said last Time. They certain did and still do! We still remember Epicurus, don't we? "Thus that which is the most awful of evils, death, is nothing to us, since when we exist there is no death, and when there is death we do not exist." For the sake of Methodology and in Order to remain in the Framework and the Traditions of the academic Discipline of History of Philosophy - specially from the Viewpoint of the French Existentialist School, to which we used to belong - we will briefly go back in Time and roughly divide the different philosophical Approaches of Death in the following four Groups: A/ theological, whereby the philosophical Thoughts are rooted in one or another Religion and religious Principles. B/ the Trend of undervaluing Death; C/ Death as the Torment of Man; D/Frivolous with some Elements of Denial, whereby the Contradictions of the human Existence and Ways of thinking are bluntly underlined. At this Stage, and having in mind the abovementioned Warning von Herrn Meier, only the Examination of Christianity and christian philosophical Doctrines will be conducted at some length; it shall be enough to illustrate the purely philosophical Points B, C and D with adequate Quotations. First though a couple of Aphorisms from spiritual and political Leaders, social Figures, Writers, Historians, Poets and other 'wise Heads' among us - to set the Scene: Shall we start with some witty, easy-going ones, some Humour? "Life is just one damned thing after another."(Erbert Hubbard(1856-1915), American Writer in 'Philistine') "Men deal with life, as children with their play Who first misuse, then cast their toys away".(William Cowper(1731-1800), English Poet) "When you don’t have any money, the problem is food. When you have money, it’s sex. When you have both, is health."(J.P. Donleavy, American Writer) "We don’t live as we wish, but as we can."(Terence(190-159 a.c), Roman Poet in 'Lady of Andros') "Life is half spent before we know what it is."(George Herbert(1593-1633), Scottish Poet in 'Jacula Prudentum') "How many lives we live in one, And how much less than one, in all."(Alice cary(1820-1871), American Poet in 'Life's Mysteries') "However many ways there may be of being alive, it is certain that there are vastly more ways of being dead, or rather not alive."(Richards Dawkins, English Biologist in 'The blind Watchmaker') "The fact of having been born is a bad augury for immortality."(George Santayana(1863-1952), Spanish-American Philosopher in 'Reason in Religion') "All the things I really like to do are either illegal, immoral, or fattening."(Alexander Woolcott(1887-1943), American Essayist) "The good die young - because they see it's no use living if you've got to be good."(Unknown author) "She[a Lady] died or vanished somewhere, forgotten as a nameless number on a list which was subsequently mislaid." (Boris Pasternak(1890-1960), Russian Writer in 'Doctor Jivago') "Live every day as if it were your last, because one of these days you will be right."(Unknown author) "The earth that's nature's mother is her tomb."(Shakespeare(1564-1616) in 'Romeo and Juliet') "What’s life unless an escape to death, and what’s death unless an escape to life?"(unknown author) "Death is to stop sinning suddenly."(Unknown author) "A man’s dying is more a survivor’s affair than his own."(Thomas Mann(1875-1955), German Writer in 'The Magic Mountain') Another one from Mister Santayana, this Time in 'Soliloquies in England': "There is no cure for birth and death unless to enjoy the interval." But what to think of these Words of Sir Winston Churchill? "I am ready to meet my Maker. Whether my Maker is prepared for the great ordeal of meeting me is another matter." And of this one from an Unknown Thinker: "Death and taxes may always be with us, but death at least doesn't get any worse."; which is echoed by this: "Death is nature's way of recycling human beings." from another unknown Human. Having a sound Feeling of Humour could indeed be healthy - provided Death shares the Laugh... Some thoughts are doubtlessly deeper and more rational than others: "Life is a great surprise. I do not see why death shouldn’t be an even greater one."(Vladimir Nabokov(1889-1977), Russian Writer in 'Pale Fire') "Men come, go, sing and dance, without uttering a word about death. All this is very fine: but, when it comes either to themselves, their wives, their children, or their friends, taking them unawares and unprepared, then what torment, what outcries, what madness and despair." "Death frights us. Death is a perpetual torment, for which there is no sort of consolation. There is no way by which it may not reach us. We may continually turn our heads this way and that, as if in a suspected country, but we can’t forget death."(Montaigne(1533-1592), French Writer in 'Essays') "There are three great events in our lives: birth, life and death. Of birth we have no conscience; with death, we suffer; and, concerning life, we forget to live it."(Jean de la Bruyère(1645-1596), French Moralist) "The fear of death is the most unjustified of all fears, for there's no risk of accident for someone who's dead."(Albert Einstein(1879-1955)) "All tragedies are finished by a death. All comedies are ended by a marriage The future states of both are left to faith."(Lord Byron(1788-1824), English Poet in 'Don Juan') "We should always have our boots on, and be ready to leave."(Montaigne(1533-1592), French Writer) "Because I have loved life, I shall have no sorrow to die."(Amelia Burr) "People living deeply have no fear of death."(Anais Nin) "A brief candle; both ends burning An endless mile; a bus wheel turning A friend to share the lonesome times A handshake and a sip of wine So say it loud and let it ring We are all a part of everything The future, present and the past Fly on proud bird You're free at last." (Charlie Daniels; written en route to the funeral for his friend, Ronnie van Zant of the band, Lynyrd Skynyrd.) "It is told that Buddha, going out to look on life, was greatly daunted by death. "They all eat one another!" he cried, and called it evil. This process I examined, changed the verb, said, "They all feed one another," and called it good." "Death? Why this fuss about death. Use your imagination, try to visualize a world without death! ... Death is the essential condition of life, not an evil." "Human life consists in mutual service. No grief, pain, misfortune, or "broken heart," is excuse for cutting off one's life while any power of service remains. But when all usefulness is over, when one is assured of an unavoidable and imminent death, it is the simplest of human rights to choose a quick and easy death in place of a slow and horrible one." (Charlotte Perkins Gilman; Suicide Note, August 17, 1935) "Down, down, down into the darkness of the grave Gently they go, the beautiful, the tender, the kind; Quietly they go, the intelligent, the witty, the brave. I know. But I do not approve. And I am not resigned."( Edna St. Vincent Millay) "The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference. The opposite of art is not ugliness, it's indifference. The opposite of faith is not heresy, it's indifference. And the opposite of life is not death, it's indifference."(Elie Wiesel; Oct. 1986) "Religion is the human response to being alive and having to die."(F. Forrester Church) Buddha expressed deep Thoughts, meiner Meinung nach, when he stated: "Decay is inherent in all compounded things. Strive on with diligence." "I wanted a perfect ending. Now I've learned, the hard way, that some poems don't rhyme, and some stories don't have a clear beginning, middle, and end. Life is about not knowing, having to change, taking the moment and making the best of it, without knowing what's going to happen next. Delicious Ambiguity."(Gilda Radner) "Tell me not, in mournful numbers, Life is but an empty dream! For the soul is dead that slumbers, and things are not what they seem. Life is real! Life is earnest! And the grave is not its goal; Dust thou art; to dust returnest, Was not spoken of the soul."(Henry Wadsworth Longfellow) "Too many people are thinking of security instead of opportunity. They seem to be more afraid of life than death."(James F. Bymes) "Let children walk with Nature, let them see the beautiful blendings and communions of death and life, their joyous inseparable unity, as taught in woods and meadows, plains and mountains and streams of our blessed star, and they will learn that death is stingless indeed, and as beautiful as life."( John Muir) "Beth could not reason upon or explain the faith that gave her courage and patience to give up life, and cheerfully wait for death. Like a confiding child, she asked no questions, but left everything to God and nature, Father and Mother of us all, feeling sure that they, and they only, could teach and strengthen heart and spirit for this life and the life to come."(Louisa May Alcott; in Little Women, chapter 36) "Destroying is a necessary function in life. Everything has its season, and all things eventually lose their effectiveness and die."( Margareth J. Wheatley) "And now the end is near And so I face the final curtain, My friends, I'll say it clear, I'll state my case of which I'm certain. I've lived a life that's full, I've travelled each and evr'y highway And more, much more than this, I did it my way."(Paul Anka) "...when we finally know we are dying, and all other sentient beings are dying with us, we start to have a burning, almost heartbreaking sense of the fragility and preciousness of each moment and each being, and from this can grow a deep, clear, limitless compassion for all beings."(Sogyal Rinpoche) One of the Heros of my younger Years as a Reader, W. Somerset Maugham, went as fas as advising: "Dying is a very dull, dreary affair. And my advice to you is to have nothing whatever to do with it."! The Answer of Mr Charles Bukowski goes the same Way:" Death meant little to me. It was the last joke in a series of bad jokes." And yet we still have the classic Question of William Shakespeare: "To be, or not to be: that is the question: Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, Or to take arms against a sea of troubles, And by opposing end them?"[...] Mr Doug Houton wrote: "Death is feared as birth is forgotten.", while Mr John Barrymore seemed to lose all his Temper: "Die? I should say not, dear fellow. No Barrymore would not allow such a conventional thing to happen to him."!! Mister George Bernard Shaw went still further when he claimed, i quote: "Death does not impress me, for i, myself, have the firm Intention to dy one Day!"(sic) Fortunately, Andre Comte-Sponville was quick to ask himself and all of us: " If we did not die, if our experience did not unravel in the endless darkness of death, would life be quite so precious, so extraordinary, so moving?". One could easily suspect some 'Impulse' here from some Beamship out there... "The irony of man's condition is that the deepest need is to be free of the anxiety of death and annihilation; but it is life itself which awakens it, and so we must shrink from being fully alive.", said another one. In the Middle of all this Confusion and utmost Uncertainty, Herr Meier noted calmly: "Bemüht sich der Mensch während seines Lebens, sich dieses richtig und evolutiv zu gestalten und zu erfüllen sowie sich bewusst auf den Tod vorzubereiten, dann wird er auch Ehrfurcht dem Tod gegenüber erlangen, so aber auch Zuversicht gewinnen und bewahren, um am Ende seiner Tage den Tod würdig zu empfangen und wirkungsvoll und furchtlos mit den Erfahrungen umzugehen, die während des sterbenden Überganges zum Tod in Erscheinung treten." Mister Ernst Becker wrote: "The idea of death, the fear of it, haunts the human animal like nothing else; it is a mainspring of human activity - designed largely to avoid the fatality of death, to overcome it by denying in some way that it is the final destiny of man." "We now know that the human animal is characterized by two great fears that other animals are protected from: the fear of life and the fear of death... Heidegger brought these fears to the center of his existential philosophy. He argued that the basic anxiety of [humanity] is anxiety about being-in-the-world, as well as anxiety of being-in-the-world. That is, both fear of death and fear of life, of experience and individuation." I guess, Herr Meier would have said, "Richtig, meine lieben Freunde!" to some of those Thinkers, for his Message on this Account should indeed be clear to all: "Wenn sich der Mensch während seines Lebens wahrheitlich schult, um eine Bewusstheit in b(B?)ezug des Todes und des Sterbens zu entwickeln, dann wird er fähig sein, mit seinem Sterben und mit seinem Tod in der würdigen Weise umzugehen, wie beide es verdienen." Mister Ernest Becker made Mention of the existential Philosophy; one of the 'established' Philosophies of our Times. The french Philosopher Alain sees Death as 'a sleep without dreams', and Wittgenstein thinks that, "Death is only an Event of life. Death can not be lived.", For Martin Heidegger, Death is a human Privilege: "Only the Human dies; the Animal perishes.", he wrote and Arthur Schopenhauer first fully shared this Certitude: "Unlike man, animals, so to speak, live without knowing death. The individual animal enjoys fully the immutability of its gender, being conscious of itself only as an immortal being.", before placing Death in another, broader, rational Context. In his major Work, 'Die Welt als Wille und Vorstellung'(The World as Will and Representation), he stated, "With regard to Eternity, Death is only an avatar." and went on to urge us to consider Death as " a part of the Becoming, to which Death is inherent. Death should be understood by placing it in the Context of Becoming.", for Death should not be used as an Excuse to neglect the call of the 'Wille zum Leben' - the Will-for-Life. With the Concept of 'Will-to-Life', Schopenhauer, it seems, came fairly close to the intuitive Understanding of the fundamental Principle of 'Streben'(literally, 'Striving'), which Herr Meier developed, namely in the Chapter 'Anhang' of 'Dekalog': "Eine der grössten schöpferischen Gesetzmassigen Wahrheiten ist die, dass alles Existierende in der Natur und im gesamten Universum und in der Schöpfung selbst, und so also auch das gesamte Leben und SEIN und alle Existenz aller Lebensformen, in grundlegender und wegweisender Form im Streben besteht - im Streben nach der Zukunft, im Streben nach Höherem, nach Evolution, nach höchstmöglicher Vollkommenheit. Wie die Schöpfung selbst, so strebt auch ein jegliches Wesen jeglicher Art vom allerersten bis zu seinem allerletzten Atemzuge nach Höherem, nach Evolution, nach Vollendung. Jeder Augenblick im Dasein eines Wesens ist ebenso nach Streben ausgerichtet wie das gesamte SEIN der schöpfung selbst. Die Schöpfung selbst als auch all ihre Kreaturen und Wesenheiten sind erfüllt mit der Kraft des Strebens, um Erfolg, Zukunft, Fortschritt und Höheres zu erringen. Streben ist die Kraft des Geistigen sowohl als des Physischen. Und Streben ist ein unumstössliches schöpferisches Gesetz, um Höheres und Vollkommenes zu erreichen durch unaufhaltsame Evolution. Die grösste Kraft in einem jeglichen Wesen ist zum Dienste des Strebens da, und wahrheitlich ist das Streben diese grosse und ungeheure Kraft selbst. Streben ist das Urgesetz aller Evolution und aller Vollkommenheit, und Streben ist die Kraft des Lebens im Sinne des Fortschrittes. Fehlt das Streben in irgendeiner Lebensform, dann erlischt die Kraft des Fortschrittes und damit der Sinn des Lebens. Verliert ein Mensch sein Streben, dann verliert er auch den Sinn des Lebens."(Dekalog; Seite 85) Thus: 'One of the greatest/biggest/largest[in the Sense of 'Fundamental'] creative/creational lawful/legitimate/statutory/legal Truths[Thruth rooted in the Laws of Creation] is this, that all Existing exists in the Nature and in the entire Universe and in (the) Creation it[her]self, and so thus also the entire Life and BEING and all Existence of all Forms of life[Life Forms],[all this] exists in fundamental and guiding/decisive/defining Form in Striving - in Striving towards/for/after the Future, in Striving towards [the] Higher/Grand/Exalted/Elevated/August/Sublime[ one], towards Evolution, towards [the] highest possible Perfection. Alike (the) Creation it[her]self[The same Way that (the) Creation it(her)self strives,..], so strives also each/any given Creature of any Kind/Nature from [its] very first to its latest Breath for/after/towards [the] Higher/Grand/Exalted/Elevated/August/Sublime, towards Evolution, towards/for/after Completion/Perfection. Each Instant in the Existence/Being of a Creature is as just aligned/aimed at/dedicated to/directed towards/for/after Striving as the entire BEING of Creation it[her]self. (The) Creation it[her]self as also all its[her] Creatures and Beings/Existences/Essences/Substances are fulfilled/filled up with the Force/Vigour/Power/Strength/Kraft of Striving, in Order to have/gain/achieve[in the Sense of 'by fighting for it']/conquer Success, Future, Progress and [the] Higher/Grand/Exalted/Elevated/August/Sublime. Striving is the Force/Vigour/Power/Strength/Kraft of the Spiritual as well as the Physical/Material. And Striving is an incontrovertible/irrefutable/incontestable/cast-iron/immutable/irrevocable creative/creational Law, in Order to attain/reach/achieve/obtain/acquire [the] Higher/Grand/Exalted/Elevated/August/Sublime and [the] Perfect through[the] inexorable/irresistible/inextinguishable Evolution. The greatest/biggest/largest[in the Sense of 'Fundamental'] Force/Vigour/Power/Strength/Kraft in each/any given Creature is there to serve[is at the Service of] the Striving, and truly the Striving is this great/large/powerful and tremendous Force/Vigour/Power/Strength/Kraft itself. Striving is the Original/Primeval Law of all Evolution and all Perfection/Completion, and Striving is the Force/Vigour/Power/Strength/Kraft of (the) Life in the Sense/Meaning of (the) Progress. If Striving is wanting/missing/absent in any given Life Form, then expires the Force/Vigour/Power/Strength/Kraft of (the) Progress and thus the Sense/Meaning of (the) Life. If a Humans loses his Striving, then he loses also the Sense/Meaning of the life.'(Dekalog; Page 85) The Bill presented by(Billy!:-)) Herr Meier to Philosophies and Philosophers on this Account is quite salted! "Irrlehren behaupten, dass der Mensch durch den Tod vernichtet wird, und dass das Leben Leiden sei, wie dies der Buddhismus so krass darlegt. Leben und Tod sollen Leid und Leiden sein wird behauptet, doch wahrheitlich ist dem nicht so, wie bereits mehrfach erklärt und bewiesen wurde. Falsche Philosophien meinen gar, dass der Materialismus den alleinigen Wert des menschlichen Lebens darstelle und verkörpere. Dies entspricht jedoch ebenfalls einer Irrlehre, wie dies bereits Schopenhauer richtig erkannt hat, der sagte, dass der Materialismus nie einen dauernden Einfluss auf die Menschheit hat gewinnen können."(Dekalog; Seite 97) That is: 'False/erroneous/erring Erring Teachings/Doctrines maintained/claimed/asserted that a Human is destroyed by Death, and that (the) Life would be[Assumption] suffering, as (the) Buddhism states this so vigorously/strongly. Life and Death would[Assumption] be Grief/Affliction/Sorrow/Distress and suffering, one maintains[they maintain], but truly it is not so, as[it] was already several Times explained and proven[by us]. Wrong/erroneous Philosophies mean/suppose even that (the) Materialism would[Assumption] represent and embody the exclusive Value of (the) human Life. However his corresponds likewise to erring/erroneous Teachings/Doctrines, as Schopenhauer already correctly recognized/realized/acknowledged that, who said [when he said], that (the) Materialism should/could never have never won/gained a lasting/continuing Influence on Mankind.'(Dekalog; Page 97) The Dialectics is all-embracing here. The loop is buckled, so to speak. Schopenhauer did however deserve some Flowers for his Rationality and Herr Meier is righteous and pretty generous; so he wrote further in that elegant and highly analytical Chapter: "Schon seit alters her lehrt dies die Lehre des Geistes gemäß den schöpferischen Gesetzen und Geboten. Darin enthalten ist aber auch die Lehre des Werdens und Vergehens und des Wiederwerdens in unendlicher, endloser Folge, hin bis in alle Allgrosszeit des Asoluten Absolutums. So besagt diese Lehre, dass eine jegliche Existenz und eine jegliche Kreation und also ein jegliches Leben bis hin zur Schöpfung selbst dem Werden und Vergehen und Wiederwerden eingeordnet ist in der Form, dass sich eine jegliche Existenz und eine jegliche Kreation fortstrebend evolutioniert und wandelt in der Form, dass sich alles durch Vergehen zu neuem Leben gestaltet in einem sich stetig wiederholenden neuen Werden nach dem Vergehen. Also folgt Werden auf Vergehen und Wandlung um Wandlung zu stetig neuem und höherem Leben in endloser Evolution."(Dekalog; Seite 96) Idem: 'Already since ages the Spiritual Teaching following/according to the creational Laws and Commandments teaches this.Therein is also included/contained/held the Teaching of Becoming and Passing/Passing away/Decay/Perisment and the Rebecoming in infinite, endless Suite/Following/Consequence/Series/Effect, up to/into all Greattime[All Eternity] of the Absolute Absolute. Thus this teachings means/points out to the Fact that each/any given Existence and each/any given Creation and thus each/any given Life up to (the) Creation it[her]self ist[are] subject to/obey to/follow Becoming and Passing/Passing away/Decay/Perisment and Rebecoming in such Form/Manner, that each/any given Existence and each/any given Creation evolves/develops itself in a striving Way and changes in a Form/Manner , that all - through Passing/Passing away/Decay/Perisment into/towards a new Life - forms/shapes/builds up itself into a constantly repeating itself new Becoming towards/into Passing/Passing away/Decay/Perisment. Thus Becoming follows Passing/Passing away/Decay/Perisment and Transformation follows after Transformation into/towards a constantly new and higher Life in endless Evolution.'(Dekalog; Page 96)] Theology. The Doctrines of the 'Church Fathers' are the Canons of the theological Teaching - and Hell its abcd, the ultimate Argument. This Notion of Hell was also largely shared by Early Philosophers. We shall follow here the Example of traditional Jewish Thinkers and will not get into the rather graphic Descriptions of that Place. At 'Philosophy and Spirituality' we read:" The Concept of hell is very common to most civilizations. It was very common in ancient Greece and Rome. The first Christians and medieval priests simply retrieved this common concept and reinforced it through radical defenders." We indeed still recall the Uncertainty of Socrates as for where he would finally end up after drinking the Cup of Poison: "Dying is one of two things. Either it is like having no awareness at all, or, as people say, it’s some kind of transfer of address for the soul from where we are into some other place. And if it is no awareness at all, if it is like a sleep slept out without any dreams, then death is wonderful."(Socrates(470-399 b.c) in 'Apology' of Plato) We do have more Information on that Matter from first Hand: "The deceased, once in the place where they have been driven by their demon, are there judged: have they had or not a good and saintly life."(Plato(428-347 b.c) in 'Phaedros') Christians strongly supported that Vision: "Increase the expectation of the inexistence of hell, and the world will become a Babylon."(Priest Caussette, in Georges Minois' 'History of hells') "Here it is, my brothers, the foundation of all morality and all law and order: the day when the acts of each one will be judged and when each one will be sentenced in accordance with his merits.'(Claude Tailland, idem) In Chapter 'Apocalipse' in the Bible, we read these Promise: " There will be no more death, no more pain.", firmly confirmed in 'Corinthians: "Death is the bridge to the definitive life."; "All who have been adopted into God's family through faith in Jesus Christ will be given new life."; "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, and no mind has imagined what God has prepared for those who love him."; and again: "The corruptible body will gain incorruption, and the mortal body will gain immortality, and then what is written will happen: death will be swallowed up in victory." John attributed the following to Jesus: "I am the resurrection and the life. Those who believe in me, even though they die like everyone else, will live again. They are given eternal life for believing in me and will never perish..." It must be said that not all christians Thinkers shared this Doctrine - even in the Early Church. The Ecclesiastes, for Instance, have a rather secular Vision of Death. "This Vision admits mortality of the soul, which is contrary to the broader biblical message of life after death and negation of absolute death.", wrote one Historian of Religions. We indeed find the following Statements in the Library of the Ecclesiastes: "This is the major evil in all that is done under the sun: that there is a same destiny to all. That’s why the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live: that all they go to the dead." "The livings know that they will die, but the dead don't know anything, neither do they have any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten." "The dead love, and their hatred, and their envy, all have perished long ago; neither have they any more a portion in anything that is done under the sun." "Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the death region, where you are going." "Men don't know their time. As the fish that are taken in an evil net, and as the little birds that are caught in the snare, so are the sons of men snared in an evil time, when it falls suddenly on them." Some Christian Thinkers didn't even believe in the Existence of Hell. What a Blasphemy! Here is the damning Evidence: "Hell is, in fact, the sin itself. Hell is to be away from God, and the proof of this is clearly evident in the Holy Scriptures."(J.B. Bossuet(1627-1704), French Religious and Writer in 'Oeuvres complètes') "If hell exists, my choice is done: I want to be with the evil and those that suffer, to relieve them, because in that case God would not be our father."(Priest Monsabré, 19th Century, in Georges Minois 'History of Hells') "It’s more reasonable to think that the copywriters were mistaken, or that some phrases of the Gospel were wrongly conceived and interpreted, than to attribute to God the ferocity he is unable to…"(Don Louis, 18th century, idem) Fortunately there were some Traces of Reason around... And now the promised Compilation of philosophical Quotations going from undervaluing Death, to seeing it as the Damnation of Man or even a Source of ...Derision! Epicurus(341-270 a.c) in 'Letter to Menoeceus' and 'Principal Doctrines': "Don't fear the gods, and don't worry about death, because what's good is easy to get, and what's terrible is easy to endure." "Death, the most awful of evils, is nothing to us, since when we are, death is absent, and, when death is present, we are not any more. It is nothing, then, either to the living or to the dead (…)." "Death is nothing to us; for once the body is dissolved into its elements, there will be no sensations, and that which has no sensation is nothing to us." "Foolish is the man who says that he fears death, not because it will pain when it comes, but because it pains in the prospect." Lucrecius(98-55 a.c), Roman Poet and Philosopher in 'De Rerum Natura': "Man who is dead cannot be made unhappy." "Death is nothing to us, nor should it worry us a bit; we can’t suffer after death, since the nature of the spirit we possess is something mortal." "There is nothing to be feared in death; it matters not a scrap whether one might ever have been born at all, when death that is immortal has taken over our mortal life." "All those things told in fables about the land beyond the grave are here, in our life on earth. There is no such thing as a wretched Tantalus, numbed with idle terror, fearing the fall of a great rock hanging over him in the air, as the tale tells. Rather, it’s here, in life, that the empty fear of the gods threatens mortals." Another View from Mister George Santayana: "In endowing us with memory, nature has revealed to us a truth utterly unimaginable to the unreflective creation, the truth of immortality... The most ideal human passion is love, which is also the most absolute and animal and one of the most ephemeral." E. Morin, a French Philosopher and Sociologist in 'Method v': "Man is a being that knows death, but can’t believe it." "The certainty of death and the uncertainty of the hour of death is a source of grief throughout our life." L. Feuerbach(1804-1872), German Philosopher: "Death is never a trick; nature doesn’t play a comedy; instead, it’s a tragic, colossal and unstoppable drama." The Understanding of Sigmund Freud of Life and Death lays in the same Spirit, when he distinguishes what he called a 'Pulsion of Death' and an 'Instinct for Life' as the driving Factors of Human Existence, whereby the two are in a State of constant Struggle. Ann Comnena(1083-1150), Byzantine Historian in 'The Alexiad of Princess Ann Comnena': "The irresistible and incessant stream of time carries all creations in its wave, throwing them into the depths of obscurity, regardless of whether they are trivial or, on the contrary, notable and important." Sigmund Freud(1856-1939) in 'Essais de Psychanalyse': "Systematically, we insist on the occasional nature of death – accidents, illnesses, infections, advanced age - revealing in this way our deep desire to deprive from death all its necessary element, thus making it become just an accidental event." Euripides(480-406 b.c), Greek Poet in 'Alcestis': "When death comes around, nobody is willing to die and old age is no longer a burden." One is really tempted to add: "Wer zuletzt lacht, lacht am besten!"( der Tod im 'Buch des Lebens'); instead we shall close this Part with the following Words des Herrn Meier: "Stirbt der Mensch, dann verliert er seinen physischen Körper mit all seinen Körperlichen kräften. Er verliert aber auch all seine ihm im Leben liebgewordenen Menschen, seine Famlie und Freunde sowie all die bekannten und sonstigen Mitmenschen. Er muss all seinen Besitz auf der materiellen Welt zurücklassen, so auch all seine Macht und seine Ruhm, wie auch all seine Fähigkeiten und Möglichkeiten. Er kann nichts ins Jenseits mitnehmen, denn im Totenreich existieren keine materielle Dinge wie auf der Welt, auf der das aktuelle Leben gelebt wird. Er kann auch von niemandem begleitet werden, wenn er, der Mensch, vom Leben in den Tod übergeht; keine Freunde, keine Lieben und keine Bekannten kann er mitnehmen, denn im Reiche des Todes existiert nur die Energie des Geistes und die Energie des Universalbewusstseins, der Schöpfung. Wenn der Mensch stirbt, dann muss er alleine sterben, auch wenn er von seinen Lieben, Freunden und Bekannten auf dem Weg des Sterbens begleitet wird. Dies ist jedoch keine Todesbegleitung, sondern nur eine Sterbebegleitung, die das Alleinsein im Tod und im Sterben nicht aufhebt. Sterbebegleitung ist schön und gut, doch ändert sie nichts am Alleinsein beim Sterben, denn dieser Weg muss von jedem Menschen ganz allein gegangen werden und niemand kann ihn beim wirklichen Sterben direkt und in das Totenreich begleiten. So ist die Sterbebegleitung nur eine äusserliche, materielle Angelegenheid, die eine materielle Verbundenheit usw. zum Ausdruck bringen kann, durch die der Sterbende z.B. Liebe zu empfangen und Frieden zu erfühlen vermag." And these cristal-clear Guidelines: "Für den vernünftigen und denkenden und effective nach der Wahrheit suchenden Menschen gibt es irgendwo 'einen Siedepunkt auf der Skala der Kultur', wie schon Arthur Schopenhauer sagte. Gemeint ist damit, dass jeder Mensch in seiner Entwicklung an einen Punkt gelangt, an dem er die Unlogik in vielerlei Dingen und Belangen erkennt, weshalb er sich dann von allem Irrealen und Unlogischen zu trennen beginnt."(Dekalog; Seite 100) Which we translated as: 'For the reasonable and thinking and effectively searching for the Truth Human, there is 'a Boiling Point on the Scale of Culture' somewhere; as Arthur Schopenhauer already said. It is thereby meant, that each Human in his Development arrives at one point, by which he [from which] recognizes/realizes/acknowledges the Illogicalness in various Things/Matters and Issues, wherefore/for which Reason he then begins to separe/free himself from all Unreal and Illogical.'(Dekalog; Page 100) NOTE: Arthur Schopenhauer(1788-1860), German Philosopher. Among 19th century philosophers, Arthur Schopenhauer was among the first to contend that at its core, the universe is not a rational place. Inspired by Plato and Kant, both of whom regarded the world as being more amenable to reason, Schopenhauer developed their philosophies into an instinct-recognizing and ultimately ascetic outlook, emphasizing that in the face of a world filled with endless strife, we ought to minimize our natural desires to achieve a more tranquil frame of mind and a disposition towards universal beneficence. Often considered to be a thoroughgoing pessimist, Schopenhauer in fact advocated ways — via artistic, moral and ascetic forms of awareness — to overcome a frustration-filled and fundamentally painful human condition. Since his death in 1860, his philosophy has had a special attraction for those who wonder about life's meaning, along with those engaged in music, literature, and the visual arts. (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/schopenhauer/) In the third and last Part of this Reading we would explore together some scientific Approaches of Death, whereby the Question of Reincarnation will be thoroughly examined. Bibliography, Sources, References and eventual further Readings shall also be provided. Looking forward to your Neutral-Positive Vibes by the Peace Meditation of the third Week of the Month. Salome, Adam. Adam, While I appreciate your efforts here, this post is exceedingly long. While I know Dyson posts long translations, it can be cumbersome upon the reader to spend the time and effort to read something of this length. Please keep in mind this is a discussion forum. Thank you for your understanding Regards Scott | ||
Earthling Member Post Number: 91 Registered: 05-2008 |
Adam: Here are some 'death' quotes for you, from some dead guy. ============================================ You love fear. The ending of fear is death, and you don't want that to happen. I am not talking of wiping out the phobias of the body. They are necessary for survival. The death of fear is the only death. It is the body which is immortal. It only changes its form after clinical death, remaining within the flow of life in new shapes. The body is not concerned with "the afterlife" or any kind of permanency. It struggles to survive and multiply NOW. The fictitious "beyond", created by thought out of fear, is really the demand for more of the same, in modified form. This demand for repetition of the same thing over and over again is the demand for permanence. Such permanence is foreign to the body. Thought's demand for permanence is choking the body and distorting perception. Thought sees itself as not just the protector of its own continuity, but also of the body's continuity. Both are utterly false. All their philosophies cannot compare to the native wisdom of the body itself. What they are calling mental activity, spiritual activity, emotional activity, and feelings are really all one unitary process. This body is highly intelligent and does not need these scientific or theological teachings to survive and procreate. Take away all your fancies about life, death, and freedom, and the body remains unscathed, functioning harmoniously. It does not need your or my help. You don't have to do a thing. You will never again ask stupid, idiotic questions about immortality, afterlives, or death. The body is immortal. If you commit suicide, it does not help the situation in any way. The moment after suicide the body begins to decay, returning back to other, differently organized forms of life, putting an end to nothing. Life has no beginning and no end. A dead and dying body feeds the hungry ants there in the grave, and rotting corpses give off soil-enriching chemicals, which in turn nourish other life forms. You cannot put an end to your life, it is impossible. The body is immortal and never asks silly questions like, "Is there immortality?" It knows that it will come to an end in that particular form, only to continue on in others. Questions about life after death are always asked out of fear. Those leaders who would direct your "spiritual life" cannot be honest about these things, for they make a living out of fear, speculations about future life, and the "mystery" of death. There is a solution for your problems--death. That freedom you are interested in can come about only at the point of death. Everybody attains moksha eventually, for moksha always foreshadows death, and everyone dies. When you die the body is in a prostrate position, it stops functioning, and that is the end of it. But in this case the body somehow renewed itself. It happens daily as a matter of course now; the whole process took years to stabilize. For me life and death are one, not two separate things. Just let me warn you that if what you are aiming at -- moksha -- really happens, you will die. There will be a physical death, because there has to be a physical death to be in that state. It is like playing around with controlling your breath because you find it amusing. But if you hold the breath long enough, you choke to death. What is the difference whether or not you find this freedom, this enlightenment or not. You will not be there to benefit from it. What possible good can this state do you? This state takes away EVERYTHING you have. That is why they call it "jivanmukti" -- living in liberation. While living, the body has died. Somehow the body, having gone through death, is kept alive. It is neither happiness nor unhappiness. There is no such thing as happiness. This you do not, cannot, want. What you want is everything, here you lose everything. You want everything, and that is not possible. The religions have promised you so much--roses, gardens--and you end up with only thorns. You see hundreds of bodies carried off in the van after death, and yet you can't possibly imagine your own death. It is impossible, for your own death cannot be experienced by you. The knowledge you have about samadhi is what is keeping you away from it. Samadhi comes after the ending of all you have ever known, at death. The body has to become like a corpse before that knowledge, which is locked into every cell in the body, ceases. Actually, you are born and die with every breath you take. That is what is meant by death and rebirth. Your thought structure denies the reality of death. It seeks continuity at all costs. I am not informing you about deep sleep or any other theories, but only pointing out that if you go deep enough the "you" disappears, the body goes through an actual clinical death, and that, in some cases, the body can renew itself. At that point the entire history of the individual, located in the body's genetic structure, no longer separates itself from life and falls into its own rhythm. From then on it cannot separate itself from anything. In any event, all you can do is to speculate about death and reincarnation. Only dead people ask about death. Those who are really living would never ask such a question. That memory in you--which is dead--wants to know if it will continue even after what it imagines to be death. That is why it is asking such silly questions. Death is finality; you are dead only once. When once the questions and ideas you have have died, then you will never ask about death again. | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 418 Registered: 10-2007 |
* *** Greetings in Peace, Adam, I have taken the 'Time' to read your Post # 148 here. ( Time = what else do we have while living?) I was deeply moved, sometimes to tears and sometimes to Joy, at that which You have shared in Your writing. Here is a little piece I found, which speaks of the Cycles, Life and Death, the Universe... An interesting concept of the cycle of Life and Death, is presented from the Upanidhads: Lord Shiva represents the aspect of the Supreme Being (Brahman of the Upanishads) that continuously dissolves to recreate in the cyclic process of creation, preservation, dissolution and recreation of the universe. Lord Shiva is the third member of the Hindu Trinity, the other two being Lord Brahma and Lord Vishnu. Owing to His cosmic activity of dissolution and recreation, the words destroyer and destruction have been erroneously associated with Lord Shiva. This difficulty arises when people fail to grasp the true significance of His cosmic role. The creation sustains itself by a delicate balance between the opposing forces of good and evil. When this balance is disturbed and sustenance of life becomes impossible, Lord Shiva dissolves the universe for creation of the next cycle so that the unliberated souls will have another opportunity to liberate themselves from bondage with the physical world. Thus, Lord Shiva protects the souls from pain and suffering that would be caused by a dysfunctional universe. In analogous cyclic processes, winter is essential for spring to appear and the night is necessary for the morning to follow. To further illustrate, a goldsmith does not destroy gold when he melts old irreparable golden jewelry to create beautiful new ornaments. Lord Shiva is the Lord of mercy and compassion. He protects devotees from evil forces such as lust, greed, and anger. He grants boons, bestows grace and awakens wisdom in His devotees. The symbolism discussed below includes major symbols that are common to all pictures and images of Shiva venerated by Hindus. Since the tasks of Lord Shiva are numerous, He cannot be symbolized in one form. For this reason the images of Shiva vary significantly in their symbolism. Half-open eyes: when the Lord opens His eyes, a new cycle of creation emerges and when He closes them, the universe dissolves for creation of the next cycle. The half-open eyes convey the idea that creation is going through cyclic process, with no beginning and no end. Trident (Trisula): a three-pronged trident shown adjacent to the Lord symbolizes His three fundamental powers (shakti) of will (iccha), action (kriya) and knowledge (jnana). The trident also symbolizes the Lord's power to destroy evil and ignorance. Salome *** * From One Eternal Spiritual Being to All Others, Awaken to Your true Essential Being J_rod7 | ||
Phenix Member Post Number: 149 Registered: 07-2008 |
Beste Empfehlung, kameraden! Sehr geehrter Herr Moderator Scott, Thanks for your Observation - ja, i used to be one of those, a Philosopher... The Legitimacy and Pertinence of your Words shall be reflected in Part three. Kameraden Earthling and J_rod7, My Appreciation for your Contribution, Feedbacks and Time. Bruder im Geist, i enjoyed the 'Wisdom of Larry the Cable Guy' and all the other Things. Salome, Adam. | ||
Phenix Member Post Number: 150 Registered: 07-2008 |
Beste Empfehlung kamerad Moderator Scott, Here is the the third and last Part of the comparative Study of ' Leben und Tod sind untrennbar mit einander verbunden' von Billy. This Version is as short as possible, considering the Importance, the Extent and the Complexity of this Topic. Vielen Dank. Kameraden, There are alas a Word missing and an extra, unnecessary Word in the Translation of a Sentence from ' Dekalog' in my Post 148. "Irrlehren behaupten, dass der Mensch durch den Tod vernichtet wird, und dass das Leben Leiden sei, wie dies der Buddhismus so krass darlegt. Leben und Tod sollen Leid und Leiden sein wird behauptet, doch wahrheitlich ist dem nicht so, wie bereits mehrfach erklärt und bewiesen wurde. Falsche Philosophien meinen gar, dass der Materialismus den alleinigen Wert des menschlichen Lebens darstelle und verkörpere. Dies entspricht jedoch ebenfalls einer Irrlehre, wie dies bereits Schopenhauer richtig erkannt hat, der sagte, dass der Materialismus nie einen dauernden Einfluss auf die Menschheit hat gewinnen können."(Dekalog; Seite 97) Has indeed to be: 'False/erroneous/erring Teachings/Doctrines maintained/claimed/asserted that a Human is destroyed by Death, and that (the) Life would be[Assumption] Suffering, as (the) Buddhism states this so vigorously/strongly. Life and Death would[Assumption] be Grief/Affliction/Sorrow/Distress and Suffering, one maintains[they maintain], but truly it is not so, as[it] was already several Times explained and proven[by us]. Wrong/erroneous Philosophies mean/suppose even that (the) Materialism would[Assumption] represent and embody the exclusive Value of (the) human Life. However this corresponds likewise to erring/erroneous Teachings/Doctrines, as Schopenhauer already correctly recognized/realized/acknowledged that, who said [when he said], that (the) Materialism should/could have never won/gained a lasting/continuing Influence on Mankind.'(Dekalog; Page 97) Hence: Der Arzt zu seinem Patienten: - Wahrum haben Sie mir meinen Brief mit der Rechnung ungeöffnet zurückgeschickt? - Weil ich doch jede Aufregung vermeiden soll! Now then. " One may have several Reasons to hold Life in Contempt, but one is never right to despise Death." (François de la Rochefoucault) Nowadays Scientists seem to be willing to dedicate some Time and Attention to the Question of Death. On July 17th and 18th the Open University and the University of York, UK, held a Conference on the Nature and Significance of Death, called: ' Death What It Is and Why It Matters'. At the Website of York University, we read: " Questions about death include the ethical (Is killing wrong? Should abortion and euthanasia be permitted?); the axiological (Is it bad to die? Which deaths are worse?); and the metaphysical (What is death? Do the dead exist?) Although the ethical questions have, in recent years, been very much discussed, the underlying issues in value and theory have received considerably less attention. Yet these issues are far from settled. Scientific advances are continuing to raise questions about what constitutes death, while both science and science fiction suggest novel possibilities for postponing it. Evolving theories of personhood and personal identity are prompting new questions about the importance of death, while recent work on emotion offers to throw fresh light on our responses to bereavement and to the prospect of death.[...]" The speakers were also of first Choice: Lisa Bortolotti, Matthew Hanser, Jens Johansson, Steven Luper, Eric Olson, and David Pugmire. Chris Belshaw and Steve Holland on what death is; Kathy Behrendt and Tom Cochrane on the fear of death; Havi Carel and Chris Wareham on death’s badness; Tim Chappell and Mikel Burley on immortality; Patrick Stokes and Carolyn Price on grief and mourning." ( (For further Readings: http://www.open.ac.uk/Arts/death/) Lieber spät als nie! At the very Beginning of my Study of Philosophy at High School, i read the following Sentence in ' What is Philosophy' (by Deleuze and Guattari), which then deeply impressed me: " Entropy is a strictly mathematical Function; it is proportional to the Logarithm of a Probability.", a rather complicated Construction just to say that Death is an inevitable(so far!), natural, scientifically measurable Occurrence. The Word has fallen: ENTROPY. Entropy is the phenomenological Understanding of Life at all biological Levels. Entropy is defined as the utter Disorganization of the inner Structure of any given biological Body. That is Death, that is what Science understands by Death. This very Perspective leads a Number of Scientists into seeing Death also as a Disease; they place Death at the End - as the scientifically logical and necessary Consequence - of the Equation Sickness-Aging-Entropy. Nothing happens after Death. Death is an End en soi. Life in its Turn is defined as Negentropy, that is a decreasing Entropy. We shall illustrate this widely shared Conception within the closed World of Sciences - particularly Biology, medical Sciences and Physics - with the Theories of two diametrically opposed Schools: the American and French ones. Mister Stephen Luper introduced his Work ' Death' with the Words: "Attempts to understand death and its ramifications have generated much controversy. In what follows we examine six topics. First, what constitutes a person's death? It is clear enough that people die when their lives end, but less clear what constitutes the ending of a person's life. Second, what are the challenges to the harm thesis, the claim that death can harm the individual who dies, and to the posthumous harm thesis, according to which events that occur after an individual dies can still harm that individual? These challenges include the following..."[...]. And further: 3. What Supports the Harm Theses? 4. What Is a Misfortune? 5. Is Death Always a Misfortune? 6. Can Death's Harmfulness be Reduced?" In the Chapter 'Death and Personhood', professor Luper wrote: " There is good reason to distinguish between our deaths as persons and the body's demise. For persons may cease to exist (thus die) while their bodies survive, and persons may survive the demise of large parts of their bodies. Insofar as we are persons, death means the destruction of our identities. Hence further clarifying what it is for a person to die entails clarifying what is essential to a person's identity (Green and Winkler 1980), how identity is instantiated in particular structures, and what is involved in the breakdown of those structures.", where, despite the Introduction here of the Idea of personal Identity, Death is treated as an exclusively biological Event. (For eventual further Reading:http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/death/) His Colleague, Dr R. William Hasker, also published a Work called 'Afterlife' in the same Spirit: "Human beings, like all other organic creatures, die and their bodies decay. Nevertheless, there is a widespread and long-standing belief that in some way death is survivable, that there is “life after death.” The focus in this article is on the possibility that the individual who dies will somehow continue to live, or will resume life at a later time, and not on the specific forms such an afterlife might take. We begin by considering the logical possibility of survival, given different metaphysical views concerning the nature of the mind/soul, and then move on to consider possible forms of support for the belief in survival." He went on to develop the following Points: 1. Survival and its Alternatives 2. The Possibility of Survival — Dualism 3. The Possibility of Survival — Materialism 4. Empirical Support for Survival: Near-Death Experiences 5. Metaphysical Support for Survival. (Further Reading: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/afterlife/) At ' Philosophy and Spirituality', Monsieur Serge Calfantan, a leading Figure of the French School, faithful to the French Tradition of Systematization began by defining what a living Being(decreasing Entropy) is as opposed to an inert Being(increasing Entropy). He subsequently published a Study called 'The Representation of Death', where he did his best to answer to the following, dramatically enunciated, fundamental Questions: What do we think about when we happen to think about Death? Is it about Death itself or rather something completely different? Is Death a vague Certainty in Time, whose real Nature eludes us? COULD DEATH BE THOUGHT OF? Could the Thought of Death have a Subject which Reflection is unable to grasp? What do we put in the word 'Death'? What is our Understanding/Projection of Death? What do we know about Death? He then distinguished seven mean Understandings of Death: - Death is a senseless Word; nobody knows what it is and nobody would never know: the Doctrine of critic Rationalism(Bachelard, Wittgenstein) - Death is a vital Intuition of an End of Life, which each living Being can anticipate: the Instinct of Death as by Edgar Morin. - Death is a pure biological Event, the one we observe in a Cadaver: the Doctrine of biologic Materialism, the clinic Definition of Death according to the CURRENT MEDICINE. - Death is a spiritual Process of which a Trace exists in an intimate Experience: Research on ' Near Death Experiences' and on Regressions under Memory. - Death is an inner Moment in the Manifestation of Life, alike Birth and of a Life, which is per nature immortal: Diderot and Schopenhauer. - Death is the Consequence of Existence, inasmuch as it disappears into Non-Existence: atheist Materialism of Epicure, Sartre, Heidegger. - Death is a Stage in the spiritual Destiny of the Soul: Doctrine of Spiritualism in Philosophy; Plato, Bergson and the religious Doctrines of Islam, Christianity, Buddhism. (Further Reading: http://sergecar.club.fr/cours/vivant.htm#vivant , en http://sergecar.club.fr/cours/mort1.htm - do bear in Mind it is in French.) As we can see, the Understanding of Death as a biologic Occurence prevails, for despite the vague Idea of personal Identity introduced namely by Mister Luper, those Scientists are still far from the Understanding of the true Nature of Death as formulated by Herr Meier here: "Mit dem Tod werden also alles Wissen und alle Anlagen sowie alle Potentiale, die durch Gedanken und Gefühle sowie durch Handlungen und Emotionen usw. durch die Persönlichkeit angesammelt wurden, aufgehoben und endgültig in den Speicherbänken abgelagert, wonach dann durch einen Verarbeitungsprozess des Gesamtbewusstseinsblocks die alte Persönlichkeit aufgelöst wird, um einer neuen Platz zu machen, die neu erschaffen wird." The shortcomings of Scientists are still more evident in the Field of Physics. One of the first - almost elementary - and basic Principle of Physics is indeed the PRINCIPLE OF THE CONSERVATION OF ENERGY. (Second Root-Principle of Thermodynamics, also called ...ENTROPY. Jawohl! For further Reading see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy) In his Post 24(Nov. 02: http://forum.figu.org/us/messages/13/9397.html?1225867662), Member Pathfinder shared generously some interesting Developement in the Study of the amazing human Structure, he came across: " This is the beginning of scientific advancement into the actual utilization of the power of the spirit which they do not even recognize yet. They see it as the simple electrical assets of the brain, but we know it to be far more than that.", he suggested. Power of the Spirit, electrical Assets of the Brain; Energy, kameraden, ENERGY! The other second unanimously acknowledged Truth is the Principle that the QUANTITY OF ENERGY IS ALWAYS STABLE - it remains unchanged; it is egal and the same in the Universe, for NOTHING IS CREATED, NOTHING IS LOST; ALL IS TRANSFORMED. FOR ALL ETERNITY! (For further Reading: http://www.tpub.com/content/fc/14104/css/14104_43.htm http://www.google.nl/search?q=the+quantity+of+energy+is+always+the+same&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:nl:official&client=firefox-a General Conservation of Energy: http://www.google.nl/search?q=Principle+of+conservation+of+energy&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:nl:official&client=firefox-a Thermodynamics and Entropy: http://www.lptl.jussieu.fr/users/lhuilier/COURS/lhuillier.pdf Entropy: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropie - French) Kameraden, the Question is then: Would it be rational, logical and scientifically sustainable to consider that the human Being, as Energy, could be below, beyond or out of this Necessary, universal Law? Our Answer is NO! And this is Reincarnation. Death is that humble, daily faithful Comrade Humans fail to understand and appreciate. Death is being seen as the Grand Unknown, the greatest Mystery, the Mother of all Evil, the ultimate Expression of the Misery of human Existence, an abominable Injustice, a Punishment or even a Result of some deadly, so to speak, Misfortune. Throughout Ages, Religions, Philosophies and other systematic World Conceptions, Sciences, Literature and the immediate Experience have been misinterpreting Death by viewing it as a Phenomenon alien and opposed to Life. The two are inherent to one another, teaches Herr Meier, and only through one is the other possible. It is widely understood that the human Being consists of a Body and of something else. That something else is being called 'Spirit' by some, 'Soul' by others or simply 'Energy', which survives Death. According to many Beliefs, Philosophies and other mystical Conceptions, that 'Spirit', ' Soul' or ' Energy' faces Trial after Death. What really happens at this Stage is much more rational and logical: "Das Bewusstsein verfällt in Agonie, wodurch die materielle Welt wie durch einen Schleier verschwindet und einer Sphäre weicht, die voller Harmonie erwallt und in einer strahlenden Helligkeit strahlt, die kein materielles Auge zu erblicken vermag. Der materielle Bewusstseinszustand löst sich auf, und das klare Licht der Schwelle des Todes weist den Weg in die jenseitige, schöpferische Unendlichkeit." Scientists have largely embraced the Doctrine of biologic Materialism, the clinic Definition of Death. Death is decreasing Entropy. Death is an End in itself; nothing happens after Death. The facts of the Matter are completely different: "Lösen sich dann die einzelnen Funktionen des materiellen Körpers schrittweise auf, dann treten Freude und Frieden sowie wahre Liebe und eine grenzenlose Freiheit in Erscheinung, die das strahlende Licht der elementaren geistigen Jenseitsebene erkennen lassen." Reincarnation is a Reality. It is all around us. Scientists have discovered and acknowledged and built their Understanding of the physical World on its Principle, but they were unable to draw this necessary, logical Conclusion. Reincarnation is indeed as real, irrefutable, necessary and scientifically demonstrable as the core Principles of Entropy, of the Conservation of Energy and the Principle of the Stability of the Quantity of Energy - the very Foundations of modern Physics. "Was der Mensch in den Tod mitnehmen kann, ist nur seine Geistform schöpferischer Natur; mehr jedoch nicht, denn all sein Wissen, seine wirkliche Liebe, seine Weisheit, sein können, seine Fähigkeiten, Gewohnheiten und Möglichkeiten usw. existieren nicht in ihm selbst, sondern in den Speicherbänken, die alle Zeiten überdauern und von denen nach der Wiedergebuhrt der Geistform in einem neuen menschlichen körper die durch den Gesamtbewusstseinsblock neu geschaffene Persönlichkeit impulsmässig unterbewusst oder bewusst wieder Wissen 'abziehen' kann." Death is as important as Life. One must be responsible in the Face of both of them. Bibliography: - Leben und Tod sind untrennbar miteinander verbunden von Billy; - The Chapters 'Sein oder SEIN - was ist darunter zu verstehen' and 'Streben' in 'Anhang' of Dekalog. The following Sites have been greatly useful and could offer some interesting further Readings: - www.ezsoftech.com/Akram/death.asp - http://www.findyourfate.com/deathmeter/religion-death.htm - http://www.google.nl/search?q=death+in+christianity&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:nl:official&client=firefox-a - http://www.google.nl/search?q=death+in+traditional+Cultures&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:nl:official&client=firefox-a - http://www.bluegecko.org/kenya/tribes/maasai/stories-death.htm - http://www.google.nl/search?q=death+in+native+American+cultures&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:nl:official&client=firefox-a - http://www.theosophy-nw.org/theosnw/world/america/my-moff5.htm Salome, Adam. | ||
Thomas Member Post Number: 521 Registered: 03-2004 |
A question for Robjna and all else who might have some insight based, not on pure speculation, but on information from the actual writings of BEAM: The first Creation started with an idea, even before any consciousness existed in the Creation itself. Thus an idea apparently is not the product, necessarily, of consciousness. Thought, however, seems to be the product of consciousness. Other than that difference, what are the other differences and also the definitions for "idea" and "thought"? Thanks! Thomas | ||
Thomas Member Post Number: 522 Registered: 03-2004 |
In the contact notes, BEAM mentions that thermobacteria exist even in stars. How can thermobacteria survive in stars when the kinetic energy within the makeup of a star ionizes the atoms that it contains, thus making it seem impossible for chemical combinations and reactions to take place? No outer shell electrons usually means no molecules can be constructed and thus no bacteria etc (in currently accepted Earth science). Any ideas on how these thermobacteria could even exist given the ionization problem??? | ||
Pathfinder Member Post Number: 130 Registered: 10-2008 |
I would think that your statement about there not being a consciuosness in exiestence before Creation might not be accurate Thomas. From what I have learned, Creation was created from the idea of Precreation first, and that this precreation remains a mystery only known to Creation. And none of the Higher Spirit forms, not even the Petale, know this mystery, and will not until they reach the evolved state of becoming Creation and doing the full circle. This tells me that the very concept of thought and idea, and intelligence that drives us all and makes us the aware spirits that we are, is also a mystery as it began with this precreation state of BEING. Whatever this Precreation sate of being is, is where the answer to all of these mysteries abide. And it is not for the things created to reach an understanding of these things until they beciome fully and wholly evolved to the point of becoming creation and finishing the cycle. So as with Physics, some facts can be known to us, but some will simply remain obscure due to the evolution factor. Just as we cannot understand certain fats until we reach certain stages, so also many facts will not be revealed until their times. But our ignorance of creation does not dismiss it. "Therefore nothing may mislead him to un-truth and falseness, because his entire BEING is in the creational cognition of infinite truth." Contact 18:62 | ||
Thomas Member Post Number: 523 Registered: 03-2004 |
Where did you read about this "precreation" exactly? I was not aware of that at all... Thanks, Thomas | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 428 Registered: 10-2007 |
* *** Hi Thomas, and Greetings to All, Your expressed Interest...: ["...have some insight based, not on pure speculation, but on information from the actual writings of BEAM...The first Creation started with an idea."] Prompted me to do a little research, and found in Bulletin #5 the following...: ["Although it created itself or, rather, was created through the Ur-Idea of the previous Ur-Creation, one can see that the Complete Universe nevertheless requires external energies -- in this case from the Absolute Absolutum -- upon whose finest energies ultimately 10^49 [1049 in text] different forms of Creation depend in infinite number. ["Regardless of the fact that the Complete Creation, Universal Consciousness, or whatever one wishes to call the Complete Universe, is capable of supporting itself, it nonetheless requires some force, an energy, that enables the Universe to achieve it. This force or energy is provided by the Absolute Absolutum. ["The Absolute Absolutum is the only entity capable of passing on the indispensable and fundamental energies to all existing forms of creations within the entire vastness of all Creational forms, so that they, in turn, have the capability of being able to support themselves. ["And yet, even the Absolute Absolutum is dependent upon an external life energy, which it does not draw from a higher type of Creation, but directly from what human beings call Absolute Nothing. The Absolute Nothing does, however, contain the fundamental, finest energies from which the Absolute Absolutum self-created itself an unfathomably long time ago."] Source, in the Section entitled "What is the Universal Material Belt?": http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/FIGU_Bulletin_005 I think, however, That Creation must have been Conscious of the distinction between "I AM and NOT I AM" in order to have the IDEA of Self-Evolution through IT'S Creations. Conscious Awareness, then, is prerequisite to Conscious Ideation. Then You raise another interesting question:, ["...what are the other differences and also the definitions for "idea" and "thought"?"] As stated, Idea arises with Consciousness. Thinking and Thought, would be function of embodied Spirit, ie. Brain Activity of the Vehicle of our Material Existence. Thinking and Thought occurs where our Knowledge is Incomplete, our way to derive to the answers within our Material State of Being. OK, yeah, This last is 'little' speculation, as a result of my own thinking and thoughts, so we'll wait for some others to 'ring-in' here with their own. Salome *** * From One Eternal Spiritual Being to All Others, Awaken to Your true Essential Being J_rod7 | ||
Marksmanr Member Post Number: 44 Registered: 02-2008 |
I read about it here. "When you read Genesis, you will read that Creation itself after its inception by Pre-Creation was unconscious of itself although it didn’t need a material realm to evolve and to make mistakes. It took several great-times before it became conscious and from that moment on, it was able to create a Universe, you can see that this evolution process is similar in the macro-cosmos (Creation) and micro cosmos (Spiritform)" Reece Stiller | ||
Phi_spiral Member Post Number: 352 Registered: 03-2007 |
Thomas: “The first Creation started with an idea, even before any consciousness existed in the Creation itself. Thus an idea apparently is not the product, necessarily, of consciousness. Thought, however, seems to be the product of consciousness. Other than that difference, what are the other differences and also the definitions for 'idea' and 'thought'?" This is my understanding to date from the Meier material. First, the Creational Energy of the Absolutum has a thought to continue its growth by creating a new Material Universe. This idea was only energy in a thought-form. As thoughts continue, they form into consciousness, and consciousness forms into will. Will is then concentrated until it becomes dense enough to be called what Billy refers to as fluffy matter. Fluffy matter is energy in motion which oscillates according to the pattern of the multi-dimensional spiral before it is gas. And here lies the blueprint for all elements starting with hydrogen. Regards Bob | ||
Thomas Member Post Number: 526 Registered: 03-2004 |
Hi everyone. Just to clarify, none of your comments refer to the original Creation which self created out of the absolute noithing/void. THIS is what I was talking about although it apparently wasn't clear. I appreciate the responses, however the same question remains and the fact as well that the original Creation came from an idea which had no pre Creation to form it (as far as a form of consciousness is concerned). Thanks again and have a great day :-) | ||
Marksmanr Member Post Number: 45 Registered: 02-2008 |
Ok Thomas, here's some info about the 1st creation then (from Jacob's 157th post, of which the information came from the book "The Kybalion"). By the way there's a lot of good information from Jacob in that part of the archives. Reece Stiller | ||
Edward Member Post Number: 1237 Registered: 05-2002 |
Hi Thomas.... Well, Billy did mentioned the word - Inspiration - which generated the Idea, as far as I can remember. [If you look up the earlier materials, this is mentioned.] As Mark mentioned of the - Self-Conscious - description. Which is my thoughts, also. So, the Inspiration was generated within that Self-Conscious mechanism, so to speak....I would think. And as effect...created the Idea...and the rest became reality. So, there was indeed, some - Perceptiveness/Perceptivity(ESP) - within that Self-Conscious(ness), present. [Similar to us humans, which more-or-less...express ourselves in like-wise manner, to create something.] Those here on this board that are creative, it be making music or paint, draw, etc, can perhaps identify themselves with the mentioned? There is a Similarity, at least from my experience. Thomas, we have to keep in mind, that Billy also lets us all do some Thinking...and even speculations of our own. Only way for One to Evolve by One's own. So, one of the first aspects Billy tells and teaches us to do is to - THINK -....for ourselves. Edward. | ||
Edward Member Post Number: 1238 Registered: 05-2002 |
Hi Thomas.... From my point of view concerning the mentioned - thermobacteria - is quite Logical. We must keep in mind, that each Galaxy within Creation...is composed in a diversity of manners. NON....are the same(; just like we humans; each are Unique)! Each exist in accordance to their created composition environment. So, our science laws/principles....are just suited to how our todays scientists perceive them, to be; and our environment specifications. Similar to Mark mentioning the - Lekatron - aspect/factor; which our scientists have yet to discover, and will not even...name it the same. So, what is not possible Here....would be possible There, so to speak. Edward. | ||
Pathfinder Member Post Number: 131 Registered: 10-2008 |
Hi Thomas, You are seeking after information which, as I have already stated, is not information that is available. There is no religion that can solve that mystery with any philosophy, no science that can answer that mystery with any fact, and no great intellect that can solve it with intelligence or reason. It is NOT available! And yet it exists! we say that it exists in the creation that is made all around you, and we ask you why you create mystrey for the sake of mystery. you do not know the secrets of the subatomic sciences and yet you merely accept the medecines you take as evidence of them. And yet you walk across the face of the earth and refuse to accept the evidence of creation below your own feet. Can you really convince yourself that there was never a first cause simply because you cannot see that mystery? if that is your philosophy than you may have to reconsider taking advantage of all of the other technologies that you use without knowing exactly the science behind them as well. "Therefore nothing may mislead him to un-truth and falseness, because his entire BEING is in the creational cognition of infinite truth." Contact 18:62 | ||
Thomas Member Post Number: 527 Registered: 03-2004 |
OK Reece, as I said, I was refering to the first Creation. Jacob, in his post, clearly states "OUR Creation created itself out of an idea of Pre-Creation" and since OUR Creation is not the original, the statements and questions I posted still apply. Thanks for the help though, and I agree that Jacobjn's posts are the most interesting and informative :-) | ||
Thomas Member Post Number: 528 Registered: 03-2004 |
All I wanted was the DEFINITIONS AND DIFFERENCES beween "idea" and "thought" as used in FIGU materials specifically because they are not identical in the FIGU materials. Where did that question get lost?!? Thanks anyway guys... :-) | ||
Thomas Member Post Number: 529 Registered: 03-2004 |
Hi Edward, BEAM said that these thermobacteria exist here on Earth, as well as on Mars and other places in THIS Solar System so unfortunately your idea doesn't pan out. thanks sincerely for the thoughts though :-) | ||
Thomas Member Post Number: 531 Registered: 03-2004 |
"Pathfinder" I don't want to be unkind but WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!? Who said I do not believe there is or was a first cause? Who said I have a philosophy or a religion? Who said I refuse to accept Creation in ANY way??? For that matter, how do you even know I take medication at all? (Hint:I don't even like pain medicine except when necessary at the dentist IF necessary) Buddy, you need to pay more attention to the posts you are responding to because you are losing credibility quicly with me (not that it really matters). In other words, stop making ridiculous assumptions because it does nothing more than aggravate and nothing to add to the search for what the truth is. Thomas | ||
Markcampbell Member Post Number: 40 Registered: 10-2008 |
Just my idea here . How about this for the first thought ? " It sure is quiet " Second thought : "It sure is quiet here " Third thought : "What is here ? " and by the way , what am I and who's asking ?" Thanks to MH for that last one . MC | ||
Pathfinder Member Post Number: 132 Registered: 10-2008 |
yeah, Thomas is looking for First Cause scenario here. he wants the answer to the mystery that no other intelligence in existence has the answer to. And if it cannot be given he will discount everything else as imaginary. Some do say that it is possible that this is all merely some dream that we exist in. There is also Dr. Seuss' theory of 'Horton Hears A Who'. You know the tiny life forms on the tiny dust ball, and everything just keeps getting smaller and smaller. Cat number one, cat number two, etc. etc. Maybe that theory should be dissected for evidence? When all is said and done though, I must agree with Thomas on one count. The Creation as defined by BEAM's philosophy does appear to address two separate creations. One being the one we attempt to understand, the other we use to give credibility to the second by using its mystery as a balance. In this way the question of first cause does not need to be addressed. It is inevitable Thomas, that no matter how you look at it, and no matter where you go for your answers, that First Cause cannot be defined by anything that follows it. IT, whatever IT was , is, was the only thing 'there' at the time, because nothing else existed at the time. So how could there be any other knowledge of it? What do you expect to find Thomas? God? is that what you're looking for? if we give it a name, and make it familiar to us, will that solve the puzzle? You know what religion did with that train of thinking dont you! The only known fact about the first cause is that it existed, it happened. Look around you my friend, you know it happened. 'What' happened, 'who' or 'what' it was, 'where' it happened at, how it happened, all those questions only exist at all because the result of the first cause, YOU, can think and ask them. Without the first cause there would be no questions asked. Your problem is the chicken and the egg thomas. And what we are saying is that it doesn't matter as long as we have the chicken and egg to consider. to some people that is all the evidence they need of the first cause. Some minds finally come to realize that creation may not be about actually proving everything, but that it just might be simply the process of learning, alone. You know that if you hit yourself on the head with a rock it will hurt,but how many times must a man beat on his head until he finally puts the rock down and just accepts it for what it is, and actually learns from the experience? Creation is not here to be discovered. It's right out in the open for all to see. It is not hiding. It is more a matter of what we can learn from it, than proving its origin. What BEAM teaches us is that we have become so blinded to Creation, so disillusioned by deceit, that we have simply forgotten how to think for ourselves. we have forgotten how to really see Creation around us because we have become complacent to it. we take it for granted. The prophet teaches us that we need to learn how to become spiritual again, to live within ourselves and develop our spiritual skills. and that only then can we live in harmony with Creation. Humankind reacts too much to the material as though that is all that there is. But we know the truth about the spirit. And it is through the development of the spirit that one comes into contact with the real Creation. if you really want to find the first cause put down your notebook and close your eyes. block out all the religion and the science. get in touch with your spirit and begin to think differently. Then you will begin to see what Billy Meier sees. "Therefore nothing may mislead him to un-truth and falseness, because his entire BEING is in the creational cognition of infinite truth." Contact 18:62 | ||
Edward Member Post Number: 1239 Registered: 05-2002 |
Hi Thomas..... On Earth, well, good to know, than. You sounded as if you were not sure of their existance here on Earth...as you posted it. Well, just another aspect we have to unravel, not? Edward. | ||
Markcampbell Member Post Number: 42 Registered: 10-2008 |
And now for a moment with nature . Everyone please turn off your PC's and Macs for a little while , because all of this haranguing does not bring you closer . Instead , my suggestion is for everyone to just take a few hours otherwise used in the same manner , to convene with the world outside , and the world inside you . Just a suggestion . The universe smiles when noone is looking , but when you go along with it's rythmn , you'll be smiling too . I hope you take no offence . Enjoy your weekend . MC | ||
Pathfinder Member Post Number: 135 Registered: 10-2008 |
Hi Thomas, sorry to be aggravating you, maybe you should try a valium instead of a painkiller, just teasing ,lol, I am not in here to be a bother but to discuss the issues and hopefully learn from them my friend. I have already corrected many mistakes I have made assumptuously by discussing with these folks. I respond to your posts # 526 and 527 where you are clearly talking about Pre-creation, and even aksed me in one post where i read about the Pre-creation. These are your posts below: Post 526 Hi everyone. Just to clarify, none of your comments refer to the original Creation which self created out of the absolute noithing/void. THIS is what I was talking about although it apparently wasn't clear. I appreciate the responses, however the same question remains and the fact as well that the original Creation came from an idea which had no pre Creation to form it (as far as a form of consciousness is concerned). Post 527 OK Reece, as I said, I was refering to the first Creation. Jacob, in his post, clearly states "OUR Creation created itself out of an idea of Pre-Creation" and since OUR Creation is not the original, the statements and questions I posted still apply. Thanks for the help though, and I agree that Jacobjn's posts are the most interesting and informative :-)UNQUOTE I am left wondering two things here. from those two posts it is obvious that you have been talking about precreation and first cause, so I do not understand why you are being bothered by my responding to it. and secondly anyone following your posts can see that you have an agenda and are using an inability to address the first cause issue as evidence that whatever you do believe is therefore right. Like Mark says plainy and simply, Who What Where why How, the fact that you are even asking these questions verifies everything that the Plejaren teach. Hope you find whatever it is you are searching for my friend. good Luck! But may I suggest that when you come to a place where you want to challenge the views of the people there, or to even seek information from them, try not to be offended when they respond with conviction. "Therefore nothing may mislead him to un-truth and falseness, because his entire BEING is in the creational cognition of infinite truth." Contact 18:62 | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 433 Registered: 10-2007 |
* *** Hello Thomas, and Greetings to ALL in Peace Thomas, the following Quote from Billy, given in response in 1998, may be as 'close as we will come' to an Answer for You...: ["How did our universe and our world come into existence? ["The universe originated from an ancient, archetypal bang, produced by a minuscule but highly compressed, flea-sized ball of energy. Originally this energy consisted of purely spiritual energy which created itself from within, although even it can be traced back to an Ur-Universe's energy conception [Ur = is a German prefix which means archetypal, most ancient or original in English]. A universe is also called a "Creation" or a "Universal Consciousness" and so forth, of which exist 1049 (10^49) variations. The least evolved Creational form is called a Creation-Universe and the next higher form is an Ur-Creation or Ur-Universe; the one following is called a Central Creation or Central Universe, etc. The ultimate of all Creational forms is the 1049 (10^49), called the Absolute Absolutum. ["This Absolute Absolutum was the initial Creational form which created Itself from the Absolute Void by way of the Primary Big Bang, thereupon It embarked on Its path through 1049 (10^49) different main Creational forms before becoming the Absolute Absolutum. Thereafter It wafts in non-space as the highest of the highest Creational forms and continues to endlessly expand and evolve through the wisdom of all Creations which unite with It once each individual Creation achieves a status of being an Absolute Absolutum as well. ["Not one Creational form is absolutely perfect, not even the Absolute Absolutum. Creational forms, just as life itself, can only achieve a relative type of perfection over their evolutionary course through processes of constant waxing and waning and waxing again that characterize all life. We live in a Creation-Universe, a material universe, unequivocally the lowest form of a Creation or universe. And our universe, our Creation, Universal Consciousness or whatever else people want to call It, must Itself strive to work Its way up the evolutionary ladder. It must evolve so as to become one with the Absolute Absolutum once It has passed through the 1049 (10^49) Creational-form transformations. ["From a human perspective this process takes an unfathomably long time, for alone the period during which our Creation, our Universe, transforms into the next higher Creational form, that of an Ur-Creation or Ur-Universe, takes more than 85 quintillion years [8518 (85^18) or 85,000,000,000,000,000,000 years]. Once the Universal Consciousness, or Creation, reaches the stage of Ur-Universe, respectively Ur-Creation, this Ur-Universal-Consciousness self-generates an idea for a new, simple Creation, the type of material universe with which we are familiar. ["This "idea" or "concept" consists of the purest spirit energy and contains everything It needs to become self-creating for Itself from within Itself. From a tiny energy ball the mere size of a flea, It creates within Itself new, immense energies which become highly compressed until this process culminates in a monumental explosion - the Big Bang. The energies from this explosion initially shoot outward and then expanded for fractions of a second at 107000 (10^7000) times the speed of light, as they displace other universes in an effort to create Its own space among the uncounted other universes, or Creations, already in existence. The seven Creational belts, or Universe belts, form simultaneously, of which one is the coarse-matter belt, the visible-matter-universe. In this belt originate coarse matters and gases and dust particles from which derive meteors, suns, comets, planets, nebulae, galaxies and other things when coarse matter gathers and condenses. In this way our Earth was born. ["This means our universe's birth and that of our Earth, along with foreign worlds, stars and galaxies and so forth, is a Creational-physical energy process and has nothing to do with a Creator God. These happenings are the result of purely spiritual-physical and material-physical laws and processes based upon physics and chemistry in every way and are, indeed, explainable through them."] Source = An Interview - Spiritual Teachings (section 2.1)...: http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Interview_with_Billy_%281998%29 Other than this, perhaps You would ask Billy (or Jacob, or Christian) directly. Salome *** * From One Eternal Spiritual Being to All Others, Awaken to Your true Essential Being J_rod7 | ||
Indi Member Post Number: 275 Registered: 06-2006 |
Hi Thomas re your recent question to the forum about the first idea: I can see by the responses that you have received so far, that the specific nature of your question has been addressed generally instead, and thus showing that the posters did miss the point your were trying to elucidate upon. Your question is a good one, and at the same time not an easy one to answer -- as not too many people have studied this aspect of the 'Absolute Nothing', the Absolute Absolutum, the first Creation, and then the ensuing Creations, with the Ur-Creations and Central-Creations that are part of the ongoing cycle. It is a philosophical question that you ask, as well as a specific one that Billy has written about. I will go through the relevant material and see if there is more specific info about the first idea. I will offer this though from the book 'Existentes Leben im Univerum', from the flow chart put together by Guido: From Absolute Nothingness to the Absolute Absolutum, in the first overall 21 periods, this is the order of things: ---------------------- Absoutes Nichts Ur-Ur-Ur-Erst-Idee Erst-Selbst-Impuls Selbst-Kreation Selbst-Existenzwerdung Selbst-Existenz Then there are 3 slumber periods. This is the make up of the first 21 periods. Following is : All-ur-ur-urzeitliche 1. Schöpfung (Einfach Schöpfung) 1. Ur-Schöpfung 1. Zentral-Schöpfung 4. Schöpfungsform 10^49 Schöpfungsformen Absolute Absolutum ---------------------------- Ed: I think that as you are a new member on this forum, it might be advantageous for you to know your audience so that you can address them appropropriately and fairly and also realise that you have not read enough of the material yet to have an understanding of it all to the level that some of your audience on this forum understand things. There are some people on this forum who have been studying and digesting the Meier material for decades, not a month or a week as some others have. The confusion that has been created around Thomas' post about the first idea, and your judgements that he shouldn't be worried about that and other things you have said to him, I personally think are inappropriate. Thomas is a deep thinker, and was one of the first people I met when I came to the forum, and I know that he has spent years contemplating the material -- and he has very patiently allowed you to carry on about his post when you have clearly no idea about what he is asking -- well, not yet -- because what he wants to know is part of Billy's offerings to us, to help explain as much as he can for our 'pea' brain-consciousness to attempt to digest -- we all know that we will never know the answers to this whilst in the physyical form, that goes without saying. However, there is legitimacy in pursuing lines of thought about death, the beyond, and the beginning of time -- which I wholeheartedly support. It is the 'process' that is important -- that is evolution -- dynamic moving, ever-questioning, ever-thinking, ever-digesting/contemplating etc.... and wondering about what comes before is part of that. Please understand Ed, that much of what you say is in a sense 'preaching to the choir', even though your opinions about things are always going to be welcomed, it is good to keep in mind that the point of the forum is to discuss things in the light of the material offered for our study and discussion from Billy and Figu. If we lose that focus, this forum will go the way many do and just become a place where people talk about themselves and that can be done on other forum of which there are zillions. I would like to agree with other remarks about lightening up, but also to ask people to read people's questions carefully, so as to really see what it is they are asking -- and save much confusion such as this question of Thomas' has created. in peace Robjna | ||
Pathfinder Member Post Number: 139 Registered: 10-2008 |
Point taken Robjna, However, having said that, I am a little confused about how you think one is to discuss issues, learn from them, and grow, without some debate when each person will individually be attempting to sort out his own demons. There is going to be a certain disconcert between two minds which are clashing over an issue, for the purpose of sorting out the truth and reason between the two. I agree that we need to try to avoid personal insults as much as we also need to avoid taking insult where none is meant. But I disagree that we should avoid discussion just because it may mean debating the issues with each other. I am not saying that we need to have a slam fest here, but I do not have a problem with arguing opinions for the sake of possible learning from them. I posted the remarks that Thomas made which led me to my conclusions about what he was searching for. Did you read those? They seemed to clearly suggest he was insisting on answers to the Precreation idea, and likening it to the First Cause theory. Calling the very first cause Precreation, idea, thought, absolute absolutum, Ur Precreation or whatever term you want to apply to it, does not change what we are talking about here Robjna. I think I have a good undertanding of exactly what Thomas has been seeking after. So do a couple of others, based on their remarks to him. As I said, being clear in what you ask is one's own responsibility. It is not the repsonsibility of the listener to read intention into your thoughts. Now, I think I understand why you say I am 'preaching to the choir.' You are making the mistake of judging a person's level of knowledge by the amount of time they have been here in this forum. Have you been studying the depths so intensely Robjna, that you have forgotten the surface of your understanding? How can one possibly know the extent of anyone's evolution? For all anyone knows, I may have been evolving for a thousand years more than you have, and am triggering knowledge on a daily basis, as I discuss issues and confront them in my life. Is that not the surface of everything that we are being taught here? 'Out of the mouths of babes' Robjna. I know that you will think that sounds arrogant, but is it a fact or not? The confusion around Thomas' post had nothing to do with my being a rookie in this forum. It had to do with the way he proposed his remarks. My responses were not inappropriate, and all I want to do here is discuss ideas and thoughts and see what I can learn. I appreciate your criticism amd understand you mean well, but I also think that you may not have read all of the posts involved. I did not take offense to Thomas' rebuke of my not understanding what he was asking, and he should not take offense to someone not understanding what he asks if he does not ask in a manner that they can understand him. If someone is that sensitive they are going to be agravated on a daily basis by all of us 'idiots' in here that do not meet up to their standards of intelligence. As for lightening up, I think it is far more important to learn from a heated discussion than it is to avoid them for fear of criticism. The only thing I do agree with in that regard is an avoidance of personal insults. there is never any need for that. i don't get upset over remarks made in messageboards. I react to them with intent, but I never get personally involved. There is no way to see the degree of emotional intent in here. So how about we take this opportunity to learn from these issues and come out of them a little closer to knowledge? I know that many here have been studying for years. I commend them for their determination to seek after truth. I do not for a minute believe that I am above anyone in wisdom, and know that many may well be far above me, but I would also never simply assume that, given the fact that we can never know the level of anyones level of evoltuion . There are exceptions of course where powerful spiritual ability is prominent, but again, who knows when those skills will be triggered in a person's life. I am sure that many people would not have given Billy his due credit based upon his education in his early twenties. I would be cautious about passing judgement Robjna. You do not know who I am. Don't judge me by the date of my registration here. Peace my friend "Therefore nothing may mislead him to un-truth and falseness, because his entire BEING is in the creational cognition of infinite truth." Contact 18:62 | ||
Indi Member Post Number: 277 Registered: 06-2006 |
Ed I am not going to write an essay in reply to you on this. You have misinterpreted my post. I was at no time discussing a person's level of evolution and at no time suggested that when one joins the forum reflects their wisdom or knowledge generally, and am surprised you got that from my words. I was only referring to people's familiarity with the Meier material which is apparent to anyone who has been studying it for quite some time. Robjna | ||
Thomas Member Post Number: 534 Registered: 03-2004 |
Very simply and sincerely, thank you Robjna, for all of what you posted. I appreciated (and still appreciate) everything you said and shared... Thomas | ||
Peter_brodowski Member Post Number: 460 Registered: 01-2004 |
hey there people, i agree with indi, that this forum is no blog. indi seems to have a fascination with time spent=ones level of knowledge and wisdom. i personally would bet dollars to donuts, that there are people who are living on this earth who never picked up a single book billy has read, and know more about life than some who have been studying for 15+ years. ofcourse that's not to take away from the fact that billy's writtings are the best of the best, simply because they are the truth. but if i learned anything from billy, it's that you should rely on your own self. your own judgement and conclusions. one might consider this. someone who lacks nutrients or has an empty stomach hungers. those that already ate and are digesting, are content. you have a good point pathfinder, you should'nt be judged by your registration date, but you can and probably are being judged by your posts and the content in them. everybody posts a thank you post here and there, but honestly, your posts, and many of the interconnecting ones (although i see value in them, as we are all human and evolve through socializing etc)written by others, turn me right off from this forum. i've been skipping posts for two or three weeks now, because it seems like the forum is now custromized into 5 peoples personal debate blog. i'm just saying that we need to respect this forum more, and also the moderators, and besides pathfinder, why would you let indi's words work you up into a big post reply? she has her opinions and so do you. personally, i think some people come off as trying to push their views of how things should be done, onto others, or they scold others for not acting like them. that's nothing to worry about. you are a human are you not? why should we reply to everthing someone says, why not consider some things and just let it be? | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 436 Registered: 10-2007 |
* *** Pathfinder, Quoting YOUR words, I can't help but wonder = Just WHAT is YOUR AGENDA? You need to take a 'Busman's Holiday', pal. First, Learn Respect. Your Posts make you look like the Snake swallowing it's Tail. ["maybe you should try a valium instead of a painkiller ["can see that you have an agenda and are using an inability to address the first cause issue as evidence that whatever you do believe is therefore right. ["you want to challenge the views of the people ["each person will individually be attempting to sort out his own demons ["two minds which are clashing over an issue ["by all of us 'idiots' in here ["clearly suggest he was insisting on answers *** * From One Eternal Spiritual Being to All Others, Awaken to Your true Essential Being J_rod7 | ||
Indi Member Post Number: 279 Registered: 06-2006 |
Peter you said: indi seems to have a fascination with time spent=ones level of knowledge and wisdom. This is an example of how 'chinese whispers' works. My question is 'where will it lead to next?' That is Ed's rumor and not my words or meanings in any way. Why is it so difficult for people to read what is written and not twist it and turn it into something it is not? This is incredibly tiring to have to waste time on. Therefore I won't any more. Robjna | ||
Pathfinder Member Post Number: 146 Registered: 10-2008 |
Here again is the perfect case of inability to sense sarcasm and intent in messages on a board. I guess its just a amtter of time before all fo my frineds here will come to know me as a joker and tolerate my way of typing excatly what my mind is saying, and obviously not being able to place the grin in the text. yeah I know there is the good old lol and the smileys, but I am hoping that after you all get used to me you will just say to yourself this guy cannot be for real. Lighten up you guys. try some of them valium maybe. My biggest problem is probably more in the way I use certain words that I should not be using and sends the wrong message that you uptight brainwaves jump on board of. for instance I have a bad habit of using the word we and you when talking about the human race as a whole and it ends up sounding like i am refering to you eprsonally, I suppose I should try to use the word one, for example, when one takes something for granted, instead of when yoi take something for granted. But I write on the fly, always have, and what i type comes right from the old noodle without editing manners. I suppose the moderators could attempt at censoring me when I drop sarcasm that might be misinterpretted by stuffy old professors, but i rather think that they will just leave that up to you guys. Oh and by agenda, I dont mean that they way yopu obvioudsly took it Rod, agenda to me simp;ly means whatever you have in mind or trying to accomplish. you make it sound more sinister. Again, I am sorry that I can't keep up with you guys intellectually, but try to have a little patioience and i'll come around. as for my tuerning you off from the forum, just dont read my posts, change the channel. All I want is the chance to discuss things with you all, and if I cannot repsond to remarks that are made to me, than it sort of puts a wrench in the whole discussion arrangment doesn't it. It would be silly for me to come in here, expect to converse with someone and try to do that by NOT resposnding to their posts now wouldnt it. I do not expect Indy to write me an essay, but I would like her to respect my right to post here and adddress the comment of others without being looked down upon. I would like to be able to argue points of view just like the rest of you. If you want to be condascending, send me a personal email please. there is a vast knowledge base to be found here, but creation is found all around us. there is knowledge outside of this forum as well, and for anyone in here to assume that only those who have been studying for years the information provided only here can be considered credible, is in stark contrast to the teachiongs of creation. Would I not have been able to learn from the creation around me by applying my logic without having ever have come to this board? Would anyone here dare to suggest that it is only thorugh the information rpovided by this board that one can evolve? How than have you all managed to evolve before the internet and Beam came along? I certainly regret that you have presumed me a problem for your board and will certainly bow out to your superiority. (Note sarcasm here) But in all seriosuness though I expect it best if I limit my postings and responses from now on and just do like Robjna has been telling me in other emails since I first came around. Keep quiet and read for a few years till I get as smart as the rest of yous! Than I can take my honorable posotion as Grand Poobah. Not likly any of you have read this far into the post anway so I dont have to put in the sarcasm paranthesis, LOL. SHEEEEEEESH! "Therefore nothing may mislead him to un-truth and falseness, because his entire BEING is in the creational cognition of infinite truth." Contact 18:62 | ||
Markcampbell Member Post Number: 44 Registered: 10-2008 |
Ed , Pathfinder ; "The perfect case of inability to sense sarcasm and intent in messages on a board" Should be the name of a 715 story building downtown , but not something that should shame anyone here . I have said it before . Again , this is not a community room where we raise our hands to speak . We're not in proximity , so were not always going to be able to sense sarcasm . Since your'e like me , not in your 20's , we didnt grow up with the internet , and writing a note to someone that the whole world can read . It has to be dealt with differently than what we were used to in terms of group conversation. Asking questions of others is good . Reading and contemplating the writings and giving them time to germinate and unfold within you is not only better , but necessary . One gets the impression that your'e doing all of your contemplating on this board , live , on the fly ( as you say) , and not in your own private thoughts . Not to be overly critical , but when a problem arises and several people acknowledge , face it , either they are all wrong and you are all right , or you could take a step back and see how you can actually contribute , rather than defeat the purpose of communication by treating this medium as if it were a room full of people who can all see each other . Writing long posts reminds me of the saying , "long tongue , empty mind " . I did read your whole post , because even though we are not in the same room , we are in simlar rooms , near or far apart , and I could be you . I mean no offence , and there are so many different people here that not everyone appreciates humor or shooting from the hip candor , but I appreciate those people too because after all , our purpose here is learning . Individual personalities welcome , even if they come off like vulcans or klingons or if they reference t.v. shows in their posts . So maybe my post here is unnecessary , as well as the contentious dialogue . I've learned that a person's evolution can be detected in his interaction with others . If I don't mention "his/her" in my posts it's because I think the feminists and anyone else that thinks that to not write that is an insult actually does get it ; the reason why I don't . When I type his , I mean her as well , as well as his with blue jeans or his with business attire , or her with a dress or a uniform , or should I differentiate between them all ? And what they had for lunch that day ? Excuse me ! | ||
Peter_brodowski Member Post Number: 462 Registered: 01-2004 |
hey indi, why is it so difficult? i dont know, but i do know there are misunderstandings, and quite frankly, what pathfinder got out of your post, so did i(to some extent). perhaps you too should consider how you write your posts? so why is it so difficult for you to see that? what i did was exagerate a bit, you probably dont have a fascination with it. you have your views and stress them time to time. that would be fair to say. i didn't come to that conclusion through some guy named ed. i came to that conclusion for example, by recalling that you time to time stress the point that one should learn german, and you mention the amount of years one did this or that. and you come off sounding uptight. i just shared my opinion, i dont expect you to respond and go on and on, infact i rather you dont. seems like some people are able to give food for thought, and when others do so, it is not worth the time. i got nothing against you, but to me you seem like a grouch. anyway, sorry for sharing my ideas. i'll stick to what i've been doing lately and just keep more or less quiet and posting paintings and photo's. i thought something of some spiritual signifigance (as minor as may be) could come out of my post. ahh well. where does it end indeed. | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 441 Registered: 10-2007 |
* *** Gruß, Bruder im Geist Phenix, I have just read again Your Post #150 = ["...the third and last Part of the comparative Study of ' Leben und Tod sind untrennbar mit einander verbunden' von Billy."] I must say that You display an impressive Scholarship in Your Thesis. I am amazed that You can remember all those References. The Shortcomings of MOST current Scientific Thinkers is obvious. From even the simple Laws of Thermodynamics, one Fundamental is the First Law - The Conservation of Energy - which Energy can neither be created nor destroyed. The failure of most is the breakdown of the Logical conclusion - to understand that the Spirit is the Energizing Essence of the Body, and that THIS Energy of Spirit can never be lost. Note, however, MOST does not mean ALL of those working in the Sciences. There IS a growing core, from many Disciplines, gaining an understanding of the Interconnectedness of all Life, finding ANSWERS to the deeper Questions, re-writing the Codex of Knowledge. There is a Book which explains the Discoveries of this growing Core group of Scientists, which I recommend. The Book is entitled "The Field" written by Lynne McTaggart. She is an Investigative Reporter who has thoroughly examined many aspects and Pioneers of the Science. To quote from the Book Cover: "The Field [is] the Quest for the Secret Force of the Universe. McTaggart presents the hard Evidence for what Spiritual Masters have been telling us for Centuries." Also, to close here, I am EAGERLY awaiting the publication of "The Goblet of Truth" in the English Version. I have downloaded the currently available German Version, but this is difficult reading for me. One has to have an ability to THINK in German for clear Comprehension, and I'm not at that level yet. Möglicherweise kann ich Sie im deutschen Forum finden. Namaste, in Ehre für Ihren Geist. Salome *** * From One Eternal Spiritual Being to All Others, Awaken to Your true Essential Being J_rod7 | ||
Pathfinder Member Post Number: 150 Registered: 10-2008 |
hahha , Mark, I think you got me figured out pretty darned well! Preciate the point you're trying to make and the effort. i'll be gentle with the professors from now on! But you would be surprised at how much reading and writing I do in my offtime, and you can thank your lucky stars that only a tenth of it goes toward this site. lol i do enjoy this site for tossing thought and logic around on the fly, I will admit. And by doing so it gives me a chance to sometimes argue points that I am not even certain of, but the argument bears fruit in the end by the thinking and deducing. So you are right to a point. As for long posts, you have no idea what I am capable of man. I am trying very hard not to be lenghty! lol But really Mark, unless there is a webspace problem down to kilobytes, they do not have to read the posts unless they find them interesting. I am getting the feeling that most people here don't take newbies seriously, but than they will walk past a beautiful flower 20 times a day without stopping to apprecaite it as well if thats the case, because they can never know what they missed until they stop to see it. WOW! I am so deep !  "Therefore nothing may mislead him to un-truth and falseness, because his entire BEING is in the creational cognition of infinite truth." Contact 18:62 | ||
Pathfinder Member Post Number: 151 Registered: 10-2008 |
Hey there Peter, I am glad that there is a few in here that seem to understand that any one of us regardless of time spent studying the BEAM teachings, have the possiblity of offering some spiritual wisdom and knowledge that might cause someone to learn from it. The BEAM teachnigs are amazing to say the least and BEAM is an incredible individual,but he would be the first one to tell everyone here to keep their eyes and ears open and to always be searching for truth in the creation around them. None of us can say how evolved another member is and what they might suddenly be able to offer. Even if they come off a little unorthodox, does not mean that they couldn't suddenly trigger stored knowledge that far surpasses everyone else and suddenly offer a truth that nobody here had heard before. So to turn into your privacy to study german and the BEAM teachings and ignore the rest of creation and evolution taking place all around you is a little like NOT practicing what you claim to believe. if you believe what BEAM is teaching you, it should be apparent to all that evolution hasn't stopped until you finish your studies. Keep your ears and eyes wide open! Oh and by the way before someone attempts to tell me the benefit of learning German, I know, I did not say it was not a great idea. I just say that one should not lock themselves away from creation taking place around them while they do learn German. I was told when I first came here by a few people, that what I should do is avoid posting too much and just study BEAM and learn german. To me that came off as presumptuous and arrogant. let's hear what each other has to say, and look for light wherever we can find it. There are geniuses out there who are disabled in ways that make people tune them out. I am not one of them! But I have the same possibilities as each and everyone here to have stored knowledge triggered by an event or logic recognition. so do not count me out, and I won't count you out. "Therefore nothing may mislead him to un-truth and falseness, because his entire BEING is in the creational cognition of infinite truth." Contact 18:62 | ||
Scott Moderator Post Number: 1611 Registered: 12-1999 |
Hey there Ed, How long have you been studying the BEAM information? Which books have you read? Just curious Thanks Scott | ||
Peter_brodowski Member Post Number: 464 Registered: 01-2004 |
hey pathfinder, let's look at this in the following way... some one who takes an interest in the meier material spends 20 years studying it. unknown to him or her, they have fairly young spirits of earth origin... another comes along who just learned about the meier case, he or she has feelings and experiences that no one knows about (because how could they?) unknown to him or her, this person has an et spirit, and so although the meier material is respected and revered as great, that person does not find it necessary to dedicate most time and effort to reading meier's books. as this person is using a different approach. it came to me as a suprise when i was reading through the forum, and i noticed a post or two here and there where a person attempts to bring the idea that they could have an et spirit, other forum members are quick to question and dispell the possibility. i think many poeple who deem themselves as knowledgable are smart, but not all that wise. so why cant it be the reverse? the dirt closest to the buried diamond is no more valueble than the dirt atop the mound. there are fine examples of that simply within the history of the core group. it is all too easy to give advice on what is the more suitable thing to do. however accurate and correct it may be. if all humans lived according to the idea that the moment, today is of utmost importance, as truthfull as it may be... we would rob the universe of a diverse and rich intelligence. i recall reading that the plejarens read this board. if that's trute then there is possibility for them to learn from our conversations and occasional arguments. how can one rob them of that opportunity? | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 445 Registered: 10-2007 |
* *** Hey Ya Ed Pathfinder, ["WOW! I am so deep !"] Perhaps TOO Deep? I, and a lot of Others, have been throwing Lifelines your way to keep You afloat here. Do You expect to be 'Spoon-Fed' on every point? The ONLY way you will LEARN, is to do the hard Work Yourself - that means Search, Study, Ponder, Find Answers, and USE Your OWN Logical Thinking. THEN share with us what You LEARN from Your Own Cognitions. *** * From One Eternal Spiritual Being to All Others, Awaken to Your true Essential Being J_rod7 | ||
Pathfinder Member Post Number: 156 Registered: 10-2008 |
hey brother peter, you struck gold with that one my friend. I couldn;t agree more and like the way you put it into words so we can easily understand it. I have most definitely got alot to learn in this life, and I am greatly in debt to BEAM and the Plejaren for the advantage they have given us, and plan to study much more of this material, but having said that I also know that Creation is outside of my house as well and much will be learned there as well. Maybe some of these old spirits are still wandering the paths out there and have not made it to BEAM yet, if so I would like to meet them and see what they have to offer as well. Maybe one will show up in here one day and have to be treated like a rookie for awhile too. I guess it just all part of the show. hey Jrod, I plan on doing a great deal of study on the subject and agree with you 100 percent, but don't worry bout the lifesavers, I swim real good. "Therefore nothing may mislead him to un-truth and falseness, because his entire BEING is in the creational cognition of infinite truth." Contact 18:62 | ||
Badr Moderator Post Number: 430 Registered: 12-2004 |
Hi everyone, Spent a bit of time reading this thread as I was away, and felt the need to comment. We all have to remember that we are on the FIGU forum, and FIGU information is to be discussed and not personal views unless it is mentioned that the views are personal, and they are asked for. Otherwise one can call the forum „like minded people“ or something so general as to discuss anything and everything. But it just isnt. If you cant accept it then join another forum, and do whatever you like. The only reason why others and I sometimes ask what have you guys read or how long have you spent on the case is simply to understand why are you not able to source your information from the books in a clear manner. It doesnt have to be a quote from a book it can be just to mention where the information is if one feels the need to go back to the original source. It doesnt matter how long one is a member here or how long they have studied the info, when giving an answer on the forum logically one should answer in reference to something in a FIGU published book. Might sound a bit religious, but lets face it most of us are not able to prove the information to ourselves, let alone to someone else, so it is hard to speak from experience or real knowledge of Spiritual Teachings. So that is why it is best if one really feels a need to answer, is to answer in reference to the FIGU information for now. I have seen many mistakes written not only by new comers, but people here since the forum was created, that includes me. Not having the time to correct things is a pain sometimes. So i ask everyone to just cool down, and lets move on. Lets go back to where it all started or move on to the next question. So if no one has anything else to add from FIGU published materials in relation to Thomas’s question then just move on to another topic. Salome, Badr | ||
Phenix Member Post Number: 154 Registered: 07-2008 |
Ich empfehle mich Ihnen, sehr geehrter Herr Badr, honorable Kameraden. Herr J_rod7, Besten Dank for your Review and your(nice!) Comments - i indeed have no Complaints about my Memory; Aging did not settle in, as yet! I would like to think that, what i concluded in that Paper is rather an Ascertion/Observation than a Thesis, as such. This is, in my View, one of the Beauties, Attractions, extraordinaries Aspects on the Materials/Information des Herrn Meier: it is free of all Mysticism, it is logical and plain; it is out there for everyone to study and check. It is a Challenge for Reason, Mind and Intuition. I approached this specific Matter from my specific Field of academic Studies; other People, from other Fields, could certainly do the same from their own specific Perspectives. Und ja, Sie haben ganz recht: the Understanding of the Necessity of a new Physics, whereby the spiritual Force - Spirit as Energy - is included, does certainly exist and is lately gaining some solid Grounds. We could add the Works of Mister Stéphane Lupasco, Mister Nassim Haramein, those of our own Professor Robbert Dijkgraaf(Mathematical Physicist, current President of the Royal Netherlands Academy of Arts and Sciences) and sicher many others, to that Trend. I noted the Book you recommended. German and 'Kelch der Wahrheit'. In my Response to Post 2 of Member Thiagoc, i wrote that i came out of temporary Retirement; i have lately indeed been enjoying the distinguished Company both vom Buch OM und vom 'Kelch der Wahrheit'. It is indeed highly challenging. And it is good so. I will pursue my Quest at the German Forum, but would be zipping by every one and then. Besides, i have made it a personal Duty to remind Members of the Peace Meditation. I shall stick to it. Auf Wiedersehen dann, Bruder im Geist, bei der Quelle. Salome, Adam. | ||
Pathfinder Member Post Number: 161 Registered: 10-2008 |
I agree Badr, the only reason that I stopped using quotes and references is that nobody seemed to acknowledge them anyway. I noticed this right from the start and even suggested what you just advised very early on. But it went unnoticed so i assumed it unnecessary. As for FIGU topic related? Are we not taught to discuss and learn from our discussions? I think that is what FIGU promotes as a directive of ccreation is it not? Now for me to go and search for that reference would take a great deal of time, is it really necessary at this point to do that? I agree that if what a person has suggested is questioned, than yes, there may be a need to supply references. However, if you are suggesting that nothing be discussed here unless it is FIGU supported, than you are denying us one of the main opportunities to evolve, which is to learn from mistakes. In my first days here, i related to Robjna how I was a little concerned about being able to discern the accurate from the inaccurate here because of the diverse discussion. I was told by a few of you at that time that this was a board for discussing all points of view for the purpose of applying our logic to discern the truth from the falacy, and thereby strengthening our own logic recognition. I was told that FIGU respects the rights of others to have their own opinions and to discuss them in a manner of learning the truth. Now please tell me if I am wrong, how the heck we are supposed to discuss what we are learning when you expect us to all arrive at the exact same conclusions from what we are studying? i would say that in an atmosphere of study there will always be debate in an effort to reach a common understanding. And I thought that was the goal of FIGU. To incite study and learning, and for each student to apply their own logic to deduce. I will go over the manifesto and the basic rules of man once again to see if there is some dispute their of what I am saying to you. I respect your effort, but maybe a better way of addressing this issue would be to add something to the site home page alerting visitors to the fact that this is a learning board and that not everything they read here is supported by BEAM. And that the factual teachings oof FIGU are readily available through the main site. Just my effort to apply logic here Badr. "Therefore nothing may mislead him to un-truth and falseness, because his entire BEING is in the creational cognition of infinite truth." Contact 18:62 | ||
Pathfinder Member Post Number: 163 Registered: 10-2008 |
Hi Scott, I think Badr censored my reply to you because he thought I was being rude. Not sure but it incited his response here. i thought we were exchanging sarcasms and being witty. But in case you were serious and to appease Badr here is what I have accomplished so far: Most of the main contact notes referring to spiritual aspects, Some of the articles found at TheyFly Some articles and bulletins found at the Future of Mankind site Guido's book And Still They Fly Basic Rules of man The Creation Itself Semjases spiritual teaching is especially interesting Life in the Spiritual What humnas Need to do Human beings of earth Worry Semjase Human Spirit Articles on the Ishwish and the gods of the earth. And of course I have been learning greatly from discussions here on the board. This is basically my line of study right now, Scott. I am not as interested in the Ufology as I am in the spiritual teachings and how mankind is affected by deceit and truth. However I do find the ufology fascinating and will want to lean more about the cosmology and space travelling aspects at a time when I am more learned with the spiritual aspects. I believe the spirit concerns should be a priority at this time of the coming of the new age. I carry some of these articles in a binder with me to work and read them over and over again to engrain them into my mind deeply and to be able to more deeply meditate on these thoughts when I can. i do not know German, but I am very anxious to be able to study the Goblet of truth and the OM. "Therefore nothing may mislead him to un-truth and falseness, because his entire BEING is in the creational cognition of infinite truth." Contact 18:62 | ||
Badr Moderator Post Number: 434 Registered: 12-2004 |
Hi Pathfinder, Sorry for the delayed response, didnt have time. From accuracy point of view, we should all be going back to the source of the information rather than relying on our memory. I always go back to the books when I used to type more things or give answers to some questions. Unfortunately dont have time these days. It helps reminding me and usually find something new I didnt see before. Might as well remind you that we are on the FIGU forum and not just any forum that any one can discuss anything. Why is that so hard to understand. We do sometimes approve posts that have nothing to do with FIGU we do approve posts that people keep on talking about their personal issues and affairs, were no one even asked for it. So we are not that strict, we just like to remind the forum members why we are here on this forum... IT IS TO DISCUSS FIGU INFO AND THE SPIRITUAL TEACHINGS The problem starts in the opinion of a few members on the forum and me included, when everyone starts talking as if they knew that their opinions match that of FIGU, which in many cases is incorrect. A lot of people confuse information read from some other source with FIGU, which is normal but wrong. We should always be able to go back to the source and remind ourselves what some answers are. You should check out the German forum one day and see what a true FIGU forum should look like. You seem to start twisting my words, which is what started the current problem in this topic. I will not continue replying, because at some point, if the point doesnt come across the second time then its not worth another. I didnt say dont discuss, but when someone asks a question why not go back to the source of the information which are the FIGU material rather than just discussing what you think is right. But if someone asks for a general opinion about an issue, of course you can talk about your opinions and conclusions. In the end of the day if you do answer questions on the forum using the information provided then its fine and I dont see why you would feel the need to defend yourself. But if you always like to answer questions with your versions of reality then maybe this forum is not the right place for you. Because we are here to discuss the ideas available in FIGU material. The reason there are moderators is to keep control of the forum, if we were to just give up and leave it up for everyone to discuss anything, then trust me a lot of the people that study the material would find this forum boring and would leave. Like many left before. So lets try to respect each other, and appreciate the people that answer questions with references showing their time and energy spent in getting an answer, instead of attacking them for no apparent reason. Salome, Badr | ||
Pathfinder Member Post Number: 171 Registered: 10-2008 |
Agreed Badr, i was concerned you were suggesting that we not discuss anything that was not FIGU documented. as a matter of fact i have just now been brought to the realization of something that I had assumed was a Plejaren teaching that I had confusingly corrolated with some other teaching. Had I not been able to express that view hector would not have had the opportunity to show me where I was wrong. "Therefore nothing may mislead him to un-truth and falseness, because his entire BEING is in the creational cognition of infinite truth." Contact 18:62 | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 465 Registered: 10-2007 |
* *** Hello All, An Interview with JAMES form WingMakers. Difficult to find an appropriate Forum Section to Post this. The WingMakers Philosophy has been discussed in these Forums previously. There is an interest here, as the 'Teachings' are Profound. ["There are few living today who in our estimation could approach JAMES degree of clarity and vision into truth and the nature of what it means to be human."] -Bill and Kerry, Project Camelot The newest Interview is at this Link...: Project Camelot interviews James from WingMakers http://projectcamelot.org/james_wingmakers.html Salome *** * From One Eternal Spiritual Being to All Others, Awaken to Your true Essential Being J_rod7 | ||
Historeed New member Post Number: 2 Registered: 09-2008 |
Does anyone know if so-called "Dark Energy" could be considered as part of fine-material or coarse-material? "Dark Energy" is what's thought of by scientists to be the unseen force that's driving the rapid expansion of our universe... | ||
Rarena Member Post Number: 387 Registered: 10-2005 |
Hi Historeed, whomever you are... According to my understanding of coarse and fine matter and if the description "energy" correctly defines this hypothetical so-called "Dark Energy" would be by definition... fine matter. Dark matter being solid... would be coarse. The Universe has seven folds or areas of itself which most Earth scientists are only aware of two or three... Maybe this "dark energy" has something to do with those four or five zones we can't see... Spiritual energy called by Billy... Creation is the force that's driving our Universe, of which we humans are all a small part... | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 548 Registered: 10-2007 |
... Hello Historeed, Randy, Bob, Thomas, and All, Greetings in Peace To discuss the concepts of Dark Energy & Dark Matter, Let's first look at the construction of our Material Universe. Considering the 'construction' of our material Universe, two very good resources of information are available. The first is the book: And Still They Fly by Guido Moosbrugger, HIGHLY Recommended and may be purchased directly from http://www.theyfly.com/ The second resource is found in these Forum Archives, In the posts from Phaethonsfire (Jacob) here: http://forum.figu.org/us/messages/13/3560.html#POST11915 These reference sources in turn, are based on the revealed information from the Plejarens and from BEAM. *** The Creation Universe we live in, known as the DERN Universe, has the 'shape' of ball, made up of six concentric 'belts' around a central core, altogether seven distinct 'regions.' The core, also known as the 'Central Sun,' of this Universe is pure energy compressed into a 'black hole' 7-Light-Years in radius (14-Light-Years diameter). * The Third 'belt' (inner-shell), known as "Ur-Space" is full of Creation Energy of a 'Positive Polarity'. This 3rd belt is 'inside' our material Universe, and has a thickness of 10^14-LY = 100,000,000,000,000-LY = 100-Trillion Light-Years * Our Material Universe is the Fourth belt of the Creation Universe. This belt has the shape of a Spherical-Shell with a thickness of 2.5X10^15 Light-Years. (Think of it like the rind on a watermelon, any part of which is 2,500,000,000,000,000-LY = 2.5-Quadrillion Light-Years in 'thickness'). * The Fifth 'belt' (outer-shell), known as "Transformation Belt" is full of Creation Energy of a 'Negative Polarity'. This 5th belt is 'outside' our material Universe, and has a thickness of 10^55-LY (Too large a number to write here = 1 followed by 55 zeros expressed Light-Years). This discussion will first consider both the Macrocosmic and Microcosmic known states of matter. // Theories (T`) have basis in Fact (F`). Most Facts have basis in Truth and Truth, (T:). This Truth Includes that revealed from Billy and the Plejarens // // Speculation (S`) is assembled from T` with observation of additional facts F` and T: from outside the original theory. // // Opinion (O`) has basis in freethinking about T` combined with T and S`. Free-Thinking is based in Logic, inso far as possible. \ // To simplify what is said in relation to "Dark Energy" and "Dark Matter" is my own thinking and opinion, S` & O`. // // The ideas in Astrophysics about Dark Matter, and ideas about Black Holes, both have basis in T` and F`... // // The ideas from Classical Physics and Quantum Physics about Dark Energy have basis in T`, F`, and S`. // // Classical and Quantum Physics do not include T:, at least not yet. // F`: -Our galaxy alone contains millions of black holes. Most are collapsed suns at the end of their lives. Suns of greater mass live a shorter time. Suns of larger mass expend their fuel (Hydrogen, Helium, &c) at a faster rate than suns of smaller mass. Our sun is an average size star in it's middle-age. Black Holes, also known as 'Singularities' form from large stars when the radiant outflow pressure drops to less than the gravity. The final collapse is nearly instantaneous. Space and time 'swap places' - the Space dimensions approach Zero as the Time dimension approaches an infinite value. The star disappears from our Universe, leaving behind an infinite 'gravity well.' F`: -To form a Black Hole, such suns must have a mass at least 3 times greater than our sun, (3xmS). The average of Most such 'Holes' are around 10xmS (equivalent to 10 suns). Some 'intermediate' Black Holes are in the range of 500 - 2,000 Solar mass, and these are the remains of star Clusters. A very few intermediate Black Holes have been detected. For a general discussion on the nuclear processes when a star collapses into a Black Hole: See this: ( www.larrydsmith.com/astro/blackholes.html ) T`: -The Supermassive black hole which anchors our Galaxy center is about 4-Million Solar Mass, 4x10^6 mS. T: -640. The age of this galaxy amounts to close to exactly 810,000,000,000 (billion) years since the beginning of the first formations of gas, whereby I also have answered your question in relation to this. ( www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Contact_Report_238 ) T: -The Big Bang created our universe 46,000,000,000,000 (trillion) years ago. T: -Approximately 1,500,000,000,000 (1.5 trillion) years after the Big Bang the first solid matter came into existence. ( www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/DERN_Universe ) F` - One light-year is equal to 9,500,000,000,000 kilometers = 9.5x10^12 Km. ( http://starchild.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/StarChild/questions/question19.html ) F`: -One Solar Mass = 1.9891 ×1030 kg F`: -The radius (r) of a black hole measured in kilometers equals three times the number of solar masses (m) of material in the black hole. This is calculated from r=(2Gm)/c^2 ,where G is the gravitational constant which is equal to 6.67 x10^-11 (See: http://www.nasa.gov/worldbook/blackhole_worldbook.html ) Further discussion of the relationship of mass to size in the black hole is found here: ( http://cosmology.berkeley.edu/Education/BHfaq.html ) T: -The Central Sun of the Universe has a radius of 7 Light-Years. -(This equals 6.65x10^13 Km) A simple calculation to derive the Volume of the Material Universe (Vm), is given from the Volume of a Sphere. For this calculation, again think of a watermelon where we want to calculate the volume of the Rind. The Formula for any Sphere is given as: V=4/3xpixr^3 , For pi = 3.1415926535 Guido Moosbrugger gives us these Dimension of Radius (R), expressed in LightYears (LY): Central Sun = 7 LY Ur-Core = 10^14 LY Ur-Space = 10^14 LY Material-Belt Universe = 2.5x10^15 LY The Central Sun may be considered as a point in relation to all other Dimensions. Therefore, the following should be applied: The Radius (Ro) to the 'outer' edge of the Material Universe is = 2.7x10^15 LY The Radius (Ri) to the 'inner' edge of the Material Universe is = 2x10^14 LY Solving Vm = [4/3xpix(Ro^3)] - [4/3xpix(Ri^3)] = [4/3xpix((2.7x10^15)^3)] - [4/3xpix((2x10^14)^3)], in Cubic LightYears (LY^3). ** Anyone who has a scientific calculator, please crunch this out. My calculator broke from too many zeros. ** * I would also appreciate it if you could point out any errors here to me. Thank you. * T` & F`: -The volume of the 'Observable' Universe, known as the "Hubble Bubble" may be similarly calculated. Our instruments, Optical Telescopes &c, can 'see' about 18-Billion LY. The Radio-Telescopes combined with the Chandra X-ray Telescope have pushed the Bubble out to around 27-Billion LY in all directions. This assumes a lot: the 'speed of light' is not attenuated in the vast distance; the Hubble constant is accurate; the basis values of Quantum Physics are true; the red-shift is measured accurately, other possible variables in the calculations and in the instruments, &c. Assume the radius R of the Hubble Bubble = 22-Billion LY = 2.2x10^10 Therefore the volume of the Hubble Bubble is calculated as = [4/3xpix(2.2x10^10)^3] That which we CAN see is only a very small part of the total Material Universe. *** To consider the source of Dark Matter requires a little physics...: F`: -The Atomic class includes Baryons (protons & neutrons) and Leptons (electrons). Below the level of the Atomic class, is the level (class) of Quarks, different combinations of which combine to form the Atomic class units. The masses of both the Atomic and Quark classes may be expressed in units of energy, e.g. Mev = Million-electron-volt = 10^6 eV units of measure. F`: -As to the relative mass ratios, the protons are 938.272 Mev and neutrons are 939.466 Mev, respectively. This means it requires at least this much or more energy to 'assemble' atomic units from quarks. Quarks are fundamental matter particles that are constituents of neutrons and protons (baryons) and other hadrons. There are six different types of quarks. Each quark type is called a flavor. ( see: http://www2.slac.stanford.edu/vvc/theory/quarks.html ) The three Quarks which comprise these Baryon particles (protons, neutrons), have mass of 3 Mev for the 'Up' and 6 Mev for the 'Down'. Thus the Quark mass of the proton then is 12 Mev, and that of the neutron is 15 Mev.! O`: -The 'missing' or difference mass is the binding Energy of the Baryon. F`: -Electrons are in the class of Leptons. The mass of an electron is approximately 1/1836 of that of the proton = 5.11x10^5 eV. Also expressed 9.10938215×10^-31 kg. There are six flavours of leptons, forming three generations. The first generation is the electronic leptons, comprising the electrons, and electron neutrinos; the second is the muonic leptons, comprising muons, and muon neutrinos; and the third is the tauonic leptons, comprising tauons, and tauon neutrinos. Each lepton has a corresponding antiparticle – these antiparticles are known as antileptons. (from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lepton) T`: -The dark matter component has vastly more mass than the "visible" component of the universe. At present, the density of ordinary baryons and radiation in the universe is estimated to be equivalent to about one hydrogen atom per cubic meter of space. Only about 4% of the total energy density in the universe (as inferred from gravitational effects) can be seen directly. About 22% is thought to be composed of dark matter. The remaining 74% is thought to consist of dark energy, an even stranger component, distributed diffusely in space. Some hard-to-detect baryonic matter (see baryonic dark matter) makes a contribution to dark matter, but constitutes only a small portion. (From Wikipedia, with thanks to Hector, post #107, September 01, 2006). F`: -Collision of galaxy clusters captured by astronomers... A powerful collision of galaxy clusters has been captured with NASA's Chandra X-ray Observatory and Hubble Space Telescope. Like its famous cousin, the so-called Bullet Cluster, this clash of clusters provides striking evidence for dark matter and insight into its properties. T`: -"It is in our view an important step forward to understanding the properties of the mysterious dark matter," Bradac said. "Dark matter makes up five times more matter in the universe than ordinary matter. This study confirms that we are dealing with a very different kind of matter, unlike anything that we are made of. And were able to study it in a very powerful collision of two clusters of galaxies." (See the full article here: http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2008-08/uoc--cog082708.php ) T`: -The large luminosity of quasars is believed to be a result of gas being accreted by supermassive black holes. This process can convert about 10 percent of the mass of an object into energy as compared to around 0.5 percent for nuclear fusion processes. F`: -A quasar (contraction of QUASi-stellAR radio source) is an extremely powerful and distant active galactic nucleus. Quasars were first identified as being high redshift sources of electromagnetic energy, including radio waves and visible light, that were point-like, similar to stars, rather than extended sources similar to galaxies. Large central masses (10^6 to 10^9 Solar masses) have been measured in quasars using 'reverberation mapping'. Several dozen nearby large galaxies, with no sign of a quasar nucleus, have been shown to contain a similar central black hole in their nuclei, so it is thought that all large galaxies have one, but only a small fraction emit powerful radiation and so are seen as quasars. (See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quasar ) (And here: http://hubblesite.org/explore_astronomy/ ) ( For an excellent presentation on Black Holes, See here: http://hubblesite.org/explore_astronomy/black_holes/ ) F`: -Seyfert galaxies are characterized by extremely bright nuclei, and spectra which have very bright emission lines of hydrogen, helium, nitrogen, and oxygen. These emission lines exhibit strong Doppler broadening, which implies velocities from 500 to 4000 km/s, and are believed to originate near an accretion disk surrounding the central black hole. (See Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seyfert_galaxy ) (And here: http://www.seyfertgalaxies.com/ ) T`: -What happens at the Event Horizon of a Black Hole? Matter is stripped down to Quarks, releasing the 'binding Energy' from the Protons and neutrons. Some of this Energy is radiated out away into free Space. Some of the Quarks are also radiated out with high values of Kinetic Energy. Photon Pairs are produced as the final stage, as matter is striped down to it's Energy equivalent. In 'Normal Space' photon-pairs split and recombine, which returns the Energy back to the Field of Space. At the event Horizon, some of these photon pairs split, with 'positive' photons radiating away from, and 'negative' photons disappearing into the Hole. This is the source of Hawking Radiation. Photons are their own antimatter. The photon is an elementary particle, despite the fact that it has no mass. It cannot decay on its own, although the energy of the photon can transfer (or be created) upon interaction with other particles. Photons are electrically neutral and are one of the rare particles that are identical to their antiparticle, the anti-photon. Photons are spin-1 particles (making them bosons), with a spin axis that is parallel to the direction of travel (either forward or backward, depending on whether it's a "left-hand" or "right-hand" photon). This feature is what allows for polarization of light. (See: http://physics.about.com/od/lightoptics/f/photon.htm ) (See additional references here: www.larrydsmith.com/astro/blackholes.html ) (Also See: http://skullsinthestars.com/2008/03/12/making-optical-black-holes-in-a-laboratory/ ) T`: -An interesting offshoot of photon-pair production, is a theoretical solution for optical Cloaking Technology. The Technology of Invisibility is discussed in the story (here: www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12961080/ ). S`& O`: -To conclude and summarize from the fore-going information in respect to Dark Matter... If you have spent an hour or more reading some of the references provided, this will be easy to understand... All known galaxies contain literally millions of Black Holes. Most of all galaxies are known to have at least one Super-massive Black Hole at their cores, these each have consumed the mass-equivalent of millions of suns, some up into the billions. Black Holes have even been detected in the Globular clusters, those little islands of a few million stars each, of which several hundred such clusters orbit around our galaxy. Of course, our galaxy is typical of most other galaxies, especially the 'flat' spiral galaxies. There is no matter within a Black Hole. It is ALL energy under tremendous pressure, a pressure greater than the speed-of-light squared. My theory T`, is that all such Black Holes provide a connection directly back to the Central Sun at the core of the Universe itself. All active Black Holes feeding on fresh suns, spew out tremendous jets of high energy = X-rays, quarks, leptons: muons, gluons, neutrinos, positive photons, pieces of molecules, gamma, light, and and radio-frequency radiation. They have been feeding like this for billions of years. The resultant residue creates a 'fog,' a 'smoke,' an aura of fine matter below the Atomic level which has very little gravitational interaction. This is the source of the Dark matter which settles like a huge 'vapor' within and around all galaxies. The 'vapor' spreads itself through space, combines with that from other galaxies in galactic clusters or Super-clusters, rides along with such galactic clusters as they flow through the Universe. T:, T`, S`& O`: -The topic now considers Dark Energy. Recall, in this Creation Universe, that the third belt, the Ur-Space, is full of 'positive' Creation Energy; and the fifth belt, the Transformation Belt, is full of 'negative' Creation Energy. This Creation Energy flows from both belts through the Material Universe. It flows through everything, through us, through all physical material, through all space. THIS IS the Dark Energy, which forms the background energy field of the Universe. The regions in the Material Universe where the two flavors of Creation Energy meet together, is a region of new material creation. Matter and anti-matter are both condensed here, with a slightly greater amount of 'ordinary' matter which remains after the annihilation of the anti-matter. Photon Energy, and all the classes of leptons, are also created here. From this emerge the new elements, hydrogen, helium, to become new stars, new galaxies, new planets, new places for new Spirit-forms. AND - this is why the Universe continues to expand, and will continue to expand up until the mid-point in the cycle of this Creation. Salome ... You say you want an Evolution, well you know, we're all doing what we can. -(Beatles revamped) Rod | ||
Rarena Member Post Number: 389 Registered: 10-2005 |
Hi Rod, Remember Billy was told Pi was not correct as we use it... Guido figured it out, I don't have it handy at the moment... | ||
Marcela Member Post Number: 66 Registered: 06-2008 |
Hi Rod and Randy: The correct PI # is 3.144 605 512. So this has nothing to do with the spiritual teachings, but I was thinking about this and I better write it on another topic area Salome | ||
Creational Member Post Number: 100 Registered: 09-2008 |
Dear Rod, What an amazing wealth of information. Although I studied engineering late 70’s and early 80’s but I have a lot of catching up to do, to be able to have any kind of decent input or comments. However, I just wanted to thank you for sharing this great insight with us. I do think, as Billy has mentioned, that there is an error in our pi calculation and it seems to me it has something to do with spiral vs. circle. in any case, Pi, was only a small part of your entire calculations/theory based on truths, facts, theories, and so fort in which you differentiated quite well with a lot of resources to back them up. Keep up this great research. Salome Zhila, Thank you Billy. | ||
Cpl Member Post Number: 398 Registered: 08-2004 |
Dear All, Does anyone have the explanation or mathematical proof that pi is really 3.144605512? It will be quite useless just postulating to the populace that this is the real number without giving any evidence or calculations. Thank you, Chris | ||
Thomas Member Post Number: 581 Registered: 03-2004 |
Correction everyone: pi is not at all 3.144... Guido did not calculate that as pi. If you look at the page in the contact notes, he merely did some doodling with pi and came up with that figure. Pi is proven to not be that number by the use of multisided figures called polygons, and in no way is the 3.144... figure correct after the first 4 digit. I was excited to learn about pi being "solved" as well, but after actually investigating myself and reading the contact portion with that info, it became apparent that my excitement was premature. So in ending, I recommend to all those who state something factually such as "Pi is this or that," please check your facts first. Otherwise you are all steering people away from the truth rather than toward it... G'day everyone! Thomas | ||
Syn Member Post Number: 108 Registered: 04-2007 |
proving pie wrong would in my opinion destroy not throw in the towel but DESTROY any and all skeptics. i am extremely interested in this new pie theory, i strongly think we should submit this question to billy. They must find it difficult...Those who have taken authority as the truth, rather then the truth as the authority -Gerald Massey | ||
Phi_spiral Member Post Number: 390 Registered: 03-2007 |
Hello Rod We know little about the structure of the stable subatomic particles, only that they have spin, charge and mass. Contrived properties, such as strangeness, charm, color and flavor, have been invented by particle physicists to catalog the illusive, artificially created, unstable quasi-particles in order to fit them into their preconceived theories. And there are strong arguments for denying particle status to the photon. It is similarly possible that the neutrino is also an illusionary quasi-particle. The neutrino may just be a reaction of the substructure of space, a vibrational disturbance propagating through space at the speed of light; but with no particle actually moving along the hypothetical path of the neutrino. Modern physics recognizes four different forces in nature: gravitational, electromagnetic, strong nuclear and weak nuclear interactions. The strong and weak nuclear interactions have an extremely short range and can be considered contact forces. The only two forces of nature with infinite range are gravitation and electromagnetism. How these forces can act over large distances has never been explained and is one of nature's greatest mysteries. More recent theories propose that electromagnetic action at a distance is facilitated by an interchange of photons, and similar gravitational action by an exchange of gravitons. However clever these ideas may be, the field theories and the particle exchange theories are by necessity only mathematical crutches, and neither provides any real understanding for solving the action-at-a-distance mystery. Could it be that we do not understand the forces of nature because we do not grasp the true nature of space and time? Theorists have been working overtime to deal with many new discoveries in the subatomic world, as well as in the cosmos at large. While their theories are often able to describe newly discovered oddities correctly, they do not add one iota to our deep understanding of nature. Quantum physics and relativity theories deal with new phenomena by formulating new postulates and by making corresponding adjustments to the mathematical framework. In the subatomic arena, new quasi-particles, like gluons, gluinos and quarks, are conjured up to account for any surplus or missing mass. And if these enigmatic particles do not behave according, to established theory, new rules are made up to connect their odd behavior with imaginary properties, such as strangeness, color and flavor. Meanwhile we are still trying to fathom the enormous complexity of Creation, the wave-particle duality of light, the nature of time and space, electric charge and gravitation, the mysterious action-at-a-distance, the secrets of nuclear structure, the formation of stars and galaxies, and the significance of quasars and black holes. In the Meir material one finds a recurring reference to a fine-structure underlying all space and all matter still undetected, with perhaps another layer of microstructure below that. This fine stuff underlying the atomic order is thought to be linked with spiritual energy. The presence of such a sea of spiritual energy would clarify how thought and spiritual power can control, or even create matter. So, in light of the fact that the Plejarens have explained how earth man’s understanding of physics is woefully inadequate and thus our understanding of the true nature of time and space, we should not become attached to our speculations of how things work for too long. There are other explanations for dark matter. The unseen matter of the universe, for which scientists coin the term, dark matter or dark energy may actually be circumstantial evidence for other dimensions, also unseen to us but which the Plejarens confirm exist. And the presence of a supermassive black hole(SBH) in the heart of a galaxy may be considered its’ driving force, causing galactic material to collect and swirl in towards the center, much like a giant vacuum cleaner sucking up dust. It is analogous to the low-pressure eye of an atmospheric hurricane, which is instrumental in the formation and growth of the giant cyclone. Note that in a hurricane, the clouds also move in circular paths and do not follow the visible spiral arms of cloud formation. In a hurricane, atmospheric mass drifts towards the low-pressure eye, where it is lifted up into the stratosphere, to be cooled and recirculated into surrounding high-pressure areas. A similar mechanism may be at work in galaxies. Galaxies with active black-hole/quasar cores appear to spew out matter along the magnetic poles of the central dynamo. To explain the apparent expansion of the cosmos, we assume that SBHs at the galactic centers have a slight electric or magnetic monopole charge. The intergalactic fields from these charged galactic nuclei create the pressure that drives the galaxies apart. Stars within the galaxies are electrically neutral and are not affected by electric or magnetic fields. They remain gravitationally bound within their galaxy in the conventional manner. If we assume a quasi-steady universe, uniformly populated with a number density of n galaxies per unit volume, then as the universe expands, new galaxies form to keep n constant with time. Regards Bob | ||
Edward Member Post Number: 1272 Registered: 05-2002 |
Hi All.... I would agree with Thomas. 'Pi' is just not at this time of our evolution, calculated correctly, even with Guido's trials examples (or whom ever). I guess, we have to see it in the same sense as that of Astrology, and so on; which we yet have to evolve to. "All in good time", as they say. And this would also apply to the TRUE 'pi'; as Billy would say. And remember: Einstein's calculations are not exact, either! His formulas and so forth STILL....have to be Perfected! To be the TRUE formulas. It was even discussed with Jim Deardorff at the PAR/Pl'sRReal group; if you like to read what he has to say about this, you can go to the web site and read his take on this. [Just use the Search Engine, there.] Edward. | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 557 Registered: 10-2007 |
... Hello All, The value of Pi is really not relevant in considering the RATIO of the volume of the observable Universe to the volume of the total Material Universe. So long as the same value is used for both, the ratio remains the same. Bob, Thank you for your thinking. Classical Physics still has a long way to go in it's theories T`. I am grateful to the Plejarens and Billy for bringing the revealed Truth T: of Creation. Salome ... You say you want an Evolution, well you know, we're all doing what we can. -(Beatles revamped) Rod | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 561 Registered: 10-2007 |
... Hello to All, The intent of my (admittedly long) post #548, is: To discuss the concepts of Dark Energy & Dark Matter. I must say that the theoretical aspects in the presentation should be considered as "a work in progress." I know that I have to be addressing the 'right audience' here, for we here are the only group which appreciates the revealed Truth from Billy and the Plejarens. Please, let's not get lost in the 'minutia' of things like the value of Pi, or 'Astrology', or "the structure of the stable subatomic particles," and so forth. All of this is like following an Elephant's footprints (careful where you step) to see how many toes it has, when the whole Elephant is standing just ahead of you. I will submit that I have answered a more profound question...: What IS Dark Matter - What IS Dark Energy? As I said also, still 'a work in Progress'. SO, any other input or theories? Salome ... You say you want an Evolution, well you know, we're all doing what we can. -(Beatles revamped) Rod | ||
Rarena Member Post Number: 393 Registered: 10-2005 |
Hi Rod, Hope all is well with you and yours... My question to Billy in October about the equivilent of an atom on the cosmic scale... he mentioned it was a galaxy... Wow. So... quarks...gluons, croutons, neutrons yet we don't see indeed... how complex it really is... We draw a circle with some electrons orbiting around and call it a day... eh eh...  | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 564 Registered: 10-2007 |
... Greetings to All ** Most recent news story on "Dark Matter", found here..: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28422411/ [ "European satellite Gaia may reveal how dark matter is distributed in space. "Upcoming experiments on Earth such as the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) particle accelerator in Switzerland, and a new spacecraft called Gaia set to launch in 2011, could be the key to closing the case on one of the biggest unsolved mysteries in science. "That's where Gaia comes in. The European Space Agency satellite is designed to measure positions and speeds of about 1 billion nearby stars with unprecedented precision. Its vision is so sharp it should be able to discern the equivalent of a shirt button on the surface of the moon as seen from Earth, Gilmore said." ] ** Most recent news story on "Dark Energy", found here..: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28256534/ [ "Mysterious dark energy demystified --Force expanding the universe "In addition, the new results, which relied on the Chandra X-ray Observatory, suggest dark energy takes the form of what Einstein called the cosmological constant — a term in Einstein's general relativity that represents the possibility of empty space having a density and pressure associated with it. "If dark energy is indeed some kind of repulsive force that is linked with "nothing," and the density of dark energy stays the same over time, astrophysicists say the expansion of the universe will continue to speed up. So rather than galaxies mingling and merging, they will fly away from one another." ] These new instruments and observations may shed a little more light on SOME Facts F`. My opinion is that Science will not get to the truth until it incorporates the Truth revealed to us from Billy and the Plejarens. Salome ... You say you want an Evolution, well you know, we're all doing what we can. -(Beatles revamped) Rod | ||
Marcela Member Post Number: 68 Registered: 06-2008 |
Hi there everybody: This is what I read on the “Questions to Billy…”: As Ptaah said during the 260th contact of February 3, 1998: „… the time is much too early to give more details …“ However, Core Group member Guido Moosbrugger made his own calculations, which can be seen in the book Plejadisch-Plejarische Kontakberichte, Block 7, page 484: The result: 3.144 605 512. And I wrote this on the “Natural World” since I thought the PI # has nothing to do with the spiritual teachings, but because everybody is talking about this here, I might as well paste my post here: So, I never paid much attention to the PI number . My teacher showed us once how to calculate it and that was the end of it. But, then I thought how they really calculate it and how we have it wrong. Well, the old Greek mathematicians would have to measure a circle by hand to come up with the radius and the diameter to discover the PI #, but this is almost impossible because if the PI number has infinite decimals, either the radius or the diameter has to have some decimals, and rulers don’t have that many decimals. So, if you have a radius measuring one, than the diameter will be the PI number. I don’t know how Guido calculated it, but maybe he was given a precise radius and diameter measurements. Happy  2009 to Everybody as well!!!  Salome | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 565 Registered: 10-2007 |
... Hello Randy, Thank You. I like the Idea of croutons in space. Yes indeed, there is a lot of strange soup around us "out there." Happy New Year to You and to All. Keep safe and well. ... You say you want an Evolution, well you know, we're all doing what we can. -(Beatles revamped) Rod | ||
Creational Member Post Number: 115 Registered: 09-2008 |
Dear Rod and Rarena/Randy, Hello. There has never been any doubt in my mind that the smallest particle possible may be a Galaxy by itself within yet another galaxy, and Billy response to you simply confirms my position. The logic behind this is utterly simple. In my opinion, math, the science of numbers, is indeed the language or the means of communication of the Ultimate Creational intelligence with us. I even wrote a book about this! Analyzing the realm of numbers; No matter how many times you multiply any number, you would never (ever, ever, ever, not in a zillion years), reach a final number, thus the term infinity. This simple fact is evident in the simplest form of math, no need for a PhD; it is obvious once anyone has a third grader’s knowledge. Us human have a tendency to complicate things to confuse ourselves. Now then, the same exact logic pertains to division. It has got to be by simple examination of the law of duality. If you reevaluate Jacob’s post on this particular law; “Everything is Dual; everything has poles; everything has its pair of opposites; like and unlike are the same; opposites are identical in nature, but different in degree; extremes meet; all truths are but half-truths; all paradoxes may be reconciled.” An incredible amount of knowledge can be obtained by a simple observation of this one law, let alone all the other creational laws; mind you, they are all based on simple math. As an example, a coin has two sides, if there is an up, there is bound to be a down to compensate. It is a creational compensation to maintain this perfect harmony we take for granted. It is the bearer of the balance. This law among other creational laws, is as factual and truthful as it can get. Therefore, it is fair to assume that division of the smallest particular leads to yet another, and so on; as Semjase indicated, Galaxies, within galaxies. No wonder, poor Creation has to rest, this is hard work. Observing the sketch of creational spiral, two spirals swirling opposite to one another, but never have an end or a beginning; neither anything else; therefore you will never have an answer to the question of the egg and chicken. Even the spirals are dual to create the whole of creation. Saalome gam naan ben uurda, gan njjber asaala hesporoona! Zhila, Thank you Billy. |
